=========================================================================
Date:
Sat, 24 May 1997 18:21:28 -0700
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From:
Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject:
Re: Lies, Money, and VIdeotape
In-Reply-To:
<199705250034.RAA10619@denmark.it.earthlink.net> from "Gerald
Nicosia" at May 24, 97 05:34:11 pm
Gerald Nicosia writes:
> Attila Gyensis writes:
>
>
"...the financial assistance that I have received from Mr. Sampas
> amounts to a grand total (let me check my
calculator) $0, nada, zero, nulla,
> nothing, zip."
>
> May
I suggest, Mr. Gyensis, that you are being a little coy in the
> matter of advertisements that have magically
appeared in your magazine,
> DHARMA BEAT?
> In
the short 3-year history of DHARMA BEAT, you have received
> numerous full-page ads from Viking/Penguin, Mr.
Sampas's publisher. Your
> fall 1995 issue even had TWO full-page ads from
Viking. You received a
> half-page ad from Rykodisc for a record that was
produced by Jim Sampas.
> You received a full-page ad for BIG SKY MIND, the
Buddhist Beat collection
> with which Mr. John Sampas was intimately
connected (the editor states: "A
> special debt of gratitude is owed to John Sampas,
the Literary Executor of
...
The fact that you would speak like this to Attila
Gyenis proves to me
what you're doing wrong.
I've hung out with Attila a few times, and he is one
of the sweetest,
gentlest most philosophical and non-greedy people I've
ever met.
Furthermore, the one time I discussed you and your
activities
with him (a few months ago over some beers after he
and I
attended the play "Kerouac" together) he was
taking your side,
and telling me about some of your good points. You've gone and
turned another friend into an enemy! As you did with me.
Your tactics are all WRONG. This is NOT the way you solve
problems. Stop
bullying people around. You could better
serve your own cause with more peaceful tactics.
Recently at a LaGuardia Airport taxi stand, I saw a
great sign:
"BE POLITE!
IT'S NICE TO BE IMPORTANT, BUT IT"S MORE IMPORTANT
TO BE NICE".
Please, Gerry Nicosia, start going with the flow
a little more.
Estate battles happen. The world
survives.
Let's talk about something else. Maybe, to get us off on
a different topic, you could tell us about the Vietnam
book
you're writing.
I'd really like to hear about it.
When do
you expect it will be published?
------------------------------------------------------
Levi
Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary
Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the
beat literature web site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
###################################
"Tie yourself to a tree with roots"
-- Bob Dylan
-----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:
Sat, 24 May 1997 21:34:13 -0400
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From:
Rod Anstee <Nastees@AOL.COM>
Subject:
Re: Law suits
In a message dated 97-05-24 20:43:44 EDT, you write:
>he will be held accountable for whatever he says
here that is damaging to my
professional reputation.
>
Thank you.
>
Yours truly, Gerald Nicosia
'Seems to me that you should consider suing yourself,
too, Gerry.
=========================================================================
Date:
Sat, 24 May 1997 21:45:02 -0400
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From:
Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject:
Re: Jim Carroll & Richard Hell
In a message dated 97-05-23 16:23:28 EDT, you write:
<< We are always seeking suggestions of suitable
artists to promote...
Any and all
suggestions from the admirable minds of Beat-L would be
appreciated.
>>
Charles Plymell
Pam
=========================================================================
Date:
Sat, 24 May 1997 21:53:34 -0400
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From:
chatfield residence <chatfield@VOYAGER.NET>
Subject:
hello
hi, my name is amy jean, and i am new on this list. i
have joined because i
am doing a research project on jack kerouac and i
thought that many of the
people on this list would be knowledgeable in that
area. My question for
research is, "How did Jack kerouac influence, and
how was he influenced by,
the "beat generation"?"
if a few kind people have any ideas on what books
would be helpful to me,
or if anyone has any answers to that question
themselves, please e-mail me
at
chatfield@voyager.net
i would not like
to tie up the list with things that most people would find
annoying,
especially because i am new here. : )
thanks.
--amy jean
"hold me
down, catching my throat, make me pray, say, love's confined."
-r.e.m.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 22:48:43 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: hello
Hi Amy Jean,
Have you yet had a chance to search the
web for references on this
question? I
actually mad emy way to the list as a result of searching for
refs to Slim
Gaillard, which led me to Jack Kerouac and on to the Beat list.
If you're
interested and if you can use it I can send you a Netscape browser
bookmark list
with many of the relevant sites.Start
with list member Levi
Asher's Lierary
Kicks site at
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
The short reply to your question, which
others will ably expand on
is that Kerouac,
Allen Ginsberg, and William Burroughs - the core of the
Beat generation
writers - were very taken with a guy named Huncke, a small
time crook,
junkie, man about town, and occasional writer. He talked
regularly about
being and feeling Beat.
They added it to their vocabulary and
their friend John Clellon
Holmes (author of
"Go") talked to Jack Kerouac about being beat and some of
this material
appeared in "Go".
It was Jack who first talked about the
Beat Generation and Holmes
credited him with
that. first conversations were about 1947; "Go was
published in 1952
;the New York Times published a short piece about Beat
after Gilbert
Milstein, an editor there, noticed the reference to the Beat
Generation in
"Go" and asked Holmes to supply an article. [much of this is
from Dennis McNally's "Desolate Angel: Jack Kerouac and the
Beat Generation".
************
So your question
might need to be rethought, since some might argue that
Jack and a small
circle of friends WERE the Beat Generation.... "How did
Jack kerouac
influence, and how was he influenced by, the "beat generation"?"
Antoine
Would also recommend folowing web site:
http://www.halcyon.com/colinp/beats.htm
The Beat Generation Archives
And
http://enterzone.berkeley.edu/ez/e2/articles/digaman.html
How Beat Happened by Steve Silberman
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 22:51:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: hello again
Hi again Amy
Jean....
And one more, the John Clellon Holmes
article This is the Beat
Generation for
the New York Times! available at:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/Texts/ThisIsBeatGen.html
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 19:55:16 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Memory Babe Archive
Dear Friends on
the Beat-List: May 24, 1997
I feel it necessary to correct some
very misleading information that
Phil Chaput has
posted on the Beat-List concerning the MEMORY BABE archive.
He would have you
think that the archive has never been closed.
For all
intents and
purposes, it IS closed, and has been ever since Mr. Sampas went
over there to
complain about open access in June, 1995.
It is important that I warn you all,
lest you waste your time and
money traveling
to Lowell, Massachusetts to make use of this unique and
irreplaceable
collection.
HERE'S WHAT YOU'LL BE TOLD WHEN YOU
ARRIVE:
You cannot make full use of this
collection unless you get
permission from
the 300 people Gerald Nicosia interviewed.
Never mind that
100 of these
people are now dead. You must get
permission from the dead
people's heirs.
Where do you start? The university, I was told, has the addresses
of FIVE of these
people.
Does that sound like a daunting
task? It is more than daunting--it
is AWESOME! I, who created this collection, could not now
find all 300
people and their
heirs. It is IMPOSSIBLE.
Never mind, of course, that all these
people consented to be
interviewed for a
major biography, knowing full well EVERYTHING THEY SAID
WAS BEING TAPED
AND WOULD BE AVAILABLE FOR USE IN MY BOOK.
What about the 2,000 xerox Kerouac
letters? You can't use those
either, without
John Sampas's permission, and he has been known to make
getting his
permission a quite difficult process.
(Ask Steve Turner, who
wrote ANGELHEADED
HIPSTER, if you don't believe me.)
Well, you may say, MR. SAMPAS HAS EVERY RIGHT
TO KEEP PEOPLE FROM
READING THOSE
2,000 xerox Kerouac letters. No, he
doesn't.
Tomorrow, if I choose, I can read every
Kerouac letter at Columbia
University,
Stanford University, Bancroft Library (Berkeley), Reed College,
the Newberry
Library, and the Humanities Research Center at the University
of Texas,
Austin--WITHOUT MR. SAMPAS'S PERMISSION!!!
Surprised? Mr. Sampas has even phoned the University of
Texas and
Bancroft Library
in Berkeley, to insist that scholars could not see their
Kerouac letters
without his permission.
You know what Texas and Bancroft told
Mr. Sampas? Sorry, sir, YOU
DO NOT HAVE THAT
RIGHT.
If these libraries are breaking the law
by showing Kerouac letters
to scholars, why
hasn't Mr. Sampas taken them to court???
It is only because the University of
Massachusetts, Lowell, has bent
to Mr. Sampas's
will (I might say willfulness) that the MEMORY BABE
collection is
closed to the public.
For all of you who care about the
importance of this collection,
please know that
I AM TAKING LEGAL ACTION to free the MEMORY BABE archive,
and your support
could be very helpful.
In the meantime, better think twice
before packing your bags for a
scholarly trip to
Lowell. Better call librarian Martha
Mayo first, and
better have your
300 signed permissions in hand.
Sorry, but that's the way it is-- Gerry
Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:02:51 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Law suits
At 09:34 PM
5/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message
dated 97-05-24 20:43:44 EDT, you write:
>
>>he will
be held accountable for whatever he says here that is damaging to my
>professional
reputation.
>> Thank you.
>> Yours truly, Gerald Nicosia
>
>'Seems to me
that you should consider suing yourself, too, Gerry.
>
>
C'mon, Rod, you
can do better than that. We expect
something REALLY NASTY
from you. Dennis Rodman wouldn't even roll his eyeballs
at that one.
Best, Gerry
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:23:13 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Lies, Money, and VIdeotape
>I've hung out
with Attila a few times, and he is one of the sweetest,
>gentlest most
philosophical and non-greedy people I've ever met.
>Furthermore,
the one time I discussed you and your activities
>with him (a
few months ago over some beers after he and I
>attended the
play "Kerouac" together) he was taking your side,
>and telling
me about some of your good points.
You've gone and
>turned
another friend into an enemy! As you did
with me.
>Your tactics
are all WRONG. This is NOT the way you
solve
>problems. Stop bullying people around. You could better
>serve your
own cause with more peaceful tactics.
>------------------------------------------------------
> Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
>
> Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
> (the beat literature web site)
>
> Queensboro
Ballads: http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
> (my fantasy folk-rock album)
>
> ###################################
>
> "Tie yourself to a tree with
roots"
> -- Bob Dylan
>-----------------------------------------------------
>
Levi, 5/24/97
Bentz Kirby commented about what a
"weird scene" it is on the
Beat-List, and
one of the weirdest things is how people here keep calling up
down, green red,
and enemies friends.
A few nights ago, Attila Gyensis told
(lied) to the Beat-L readers
that I had spent
years "demanding" to be invited to Lowell by Lowell
Celebrates
Kerouac! (a committee he is or has been a member of). The truth
is, I have never
so much as written Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! a single
letter, or even called
them on the phone.
Yet, Mr. Gyensis is supposed to be
"taking my side."
You were supposed to be my
"friend," and you falsely embarrass me
here on the
Beat-List, claiming I arbitrarily forced you to pull Jan's
PARROT FEVER from
your website (as if I were on some kind of power trip a la
Rod Anstee), when
I had already explained to you, in writing, in detail,
that I was being
legally constrained by Jan's heirs from letting you publish
the piece (even
on the internet) for nothing.
Now I don't expect Mr. Gyensis is
getting rich off John Sampas.
When I dropped
his name a few posts ago, it was because so much intense
scrutiny of my
and Jan's finances has been posted on this net by people like
Anstee and
Chaput. So I wanted to turn the tables
for a moment, just so
those on the
other side would know what it feels like to be asked questions
about every penny
you ever earned or were helped to earn.
When Mr. Gyensis makes false (and
essentially damaging) accusations
about me, I have
to wonder what his motives are, and I would have to be a
fool to think
that Mr. Sampas has not been helpful to him in publishing his
magazine.
The bottom line, here, Levi, is not
that I'm a mean or vicious
person (ask the
60 ladies over at my mom's nursing home, whom I visit every
day). The bottom line is that I'm tired of an
onslaught of vicious,
personal attacks
on me--which have all arisen because certain people don't
want to answer
the really important questions about what Mr. Sampas is doing
with Jack
Kerouac's archive. And I want those
people to know that I don't
lie down and play
dead at the first shove. I shove
back. And if you shove
harder, I shove
harder.
I'm ready to lower the intensity of
this debate any time the other
side is. Or perhaps more to the point, I'm ready to
play clean--without the
Rodman-like
kicks, elbows, and body-blocks--as soon as the other side shows
me the same
courtesy.
It's them you should be lecturing, not
me.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 22:27:00 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Law suits
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
>
> At 09:34 PM
5/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
> >In a
message dated 97-05-24 20:43:44 EDT, you write:
> >
> >>he
will be held accountable for whatever he says here that is damaging to my
>
>professional reputation.
>
>> Thank you.
>
>> Yours truly, Gerald
Nicosia
> >
> >'Seems
to me that you should consider suing yourself, too, Gerry.
> >
> >
>
> C'mon, Rod,
you can do better than that. We expect
something REALLY NASTY
> from
you. Dennis Rodman wouldn't even roll
his eyeballs at that one.
> Best, Gerry
What's with all
the Rodman-bashing???
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:36:45 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: hello
At 09:53 PM
5/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>hi, my name
is amy jean, and i am new on this list. i have joined because i
>am doing a
research project on jack kerouac and i thought that many of the
>people on
this list would be knowledgeable in that area. My question for
>research is,
"How did Jack kerouac influence, and how was he influenced by,
>the
"beat generation"?"
>if a few kind
people have any ideas on what books would be helpful to me,
>or if anyone
has any answers to that question themselves, please e-mail me
>at
>chatfield@voyager.net
>i would not
like to tie up the list with things that most people would find
>annoying,
especially because i am new here. : )
>thanks.
>--amy jean
>
>
>
>
>"hold me
down, catching my throat, make me pray, say, love's confined."
>-r.e.m.
>
Dear Amy
Jean-- May 24, 1997
Thanks for giving me the chance to show
I don't think about literary
estates and
lawsuits all my waking hours (my little daughter Wu Ji would
never allow
that).
Read my biography of Jack Kerouac,
MEMORY BABE (from University of
California
Press), or if you're not into 800-page books, read a shorter
version of things
by Steven Turner called ANGELHEADED HIPSTER (Viking); read
John Clellon
Holmes' NOTHING MORE TO DECLARE (reissued, I believe, from U.
of Arkansas
Press); read John Tytell's NAKED ANGELS; get ahold of the
catalogue to the
Whitney Museum Show: BEAT CULTURE AND THE NEW AMERICA (you
can order it from
the Whitney Museum Book Shop in New York City); and maybe
try listening to
HOWLS RAPS & ROARS, on record, CD, or tape from Fantasy
Records in
Berkeley. Better yet, if you are near
California, visit City
Lights Bookstore,
the poetry and Beat room upstairs, see if you can have
coffee with the
owner, poet Lawrence Ferlinghetti, and sit in Kerouac's
corner in
Vesuvio's bar next door, where many of the old Beat poets still
hang out, like
Jack Micheline, Howard Hart, Eugene Ruggles, and Marty Matz.
Beat was a very
large community, of which only a small iceberg tip ever got
famous; it was
supportive, compassionate, open toward life, and in constant
pursuit of joy
and new experience--and Kerouac led the way.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:45:45 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Law suits
At 10:27 PM
5/24/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Gerald
Nicosia wrote:
>>
>> At 09:34
PM 5/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>> >In a
message dated 97-05-24 20:43:44 EDT, you write:
>> >
>>
>>he will be held accountable for whatever he says here that is damaging
to my
>>
>professional reputation.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Yours truly, Gerald
Nicosia
>> >
>>
>'Seems to me that you should consider suing yourself, too, Gerry.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> C'mon,
Rod, you can do better than that. We
expect something REALLY NASTY
>> from
you. Dennis Rodman wouldn't even roll
his eyeballs at that one.
>> Best, Gerry
>
>What's with
all the Rodman-bashing???
>
Hey, Dave,
I LIKE Dennis Rodman. Why was that a bash?
Best, Gerry
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:51:55 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Gargolye magazine
At 01:29 PM
5/24/97 EST, you wrote:
>This may be
repeat information as I think I lost some mail during a recent
>thunderstorm
here in the outback So excuse me if this is old news but the
>latest issue
of Gargoyle Magazine, number 39/40, has an excerpt of Joan Haverty
>Kerouac's
autobiography in it (this would be Jan's mother). Give it a look
>should you
spy a copy.
>
>One more
thing, any fans of Larry Eigner out there? Re-reading some of his work
>as he died a
few months ago, I was happy to have my memory re-freshed to what a
>fine poet he
was. Sorry he had to die for me to look at his work again...but if
>you get a
chance, give Larry a read. Adios to a great poet.
>
>dave B.
>
Dave, May 24, 1997
I believe Jack Foley, who was a close
friend of Eigner's, did a
memorial show for
him on Foley's radio program (I forget the name) on
KPFA-FM radio in
Berkeley. If you call the station, they
can probably sell
you a copy of the
show, if you're interested.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:58:31 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Steve Smith a.k.a. Whiskey
Wordsmith" <psu06729@ODIN.CC.PDX.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lies, Money, and VIdeotape
In-Reply-To:
<199705250121.SAA23363@netcom.netcom.com>
On Sat, 24 May
1997, Levi Asher wrote:
> Your tactics
are all WRONG. This is NOT the way you
solve
>
problems. Stop bullying people
around. You could better
> serve your
own cause with more peaceful tactics.
>
> Please, Gerry Nicosia, start going with the
flow
> a little
more. Estate battles happen. The world survives.
> Let's talk
about something else. Maybe, to get us
off on
> a different topic,
you could tell us about the Vietnam book
> you're
writing. I'd really like to hear about
it. When do
> you expect
it will be published?
levi and friends:
"start going with the flow"???? bullshit. that's the
rap weasels the
world over use. it's a cop-out. it's the kind of thing
that's said when
people are sitting on the lawn, way far out there away
from passion and
the "real" world, if you will. there is no question that i
wish the
whole estate
battle could be solved with a magic swing of a wand, but
it aint gonna
happen that way. none of any waterheaded
zen crap will
zone-out a long
(and necessary) airing of the two sides' positions. don't
zero in on
nicosia as the "bad" guy. levi, you say some very wise things
a lot of the
time--and you have a boffo web site--but quit the whining
about
nicosia. if you hate the back and forth
poison re: the estate
battle, why not
get on anstee and chaput, too??? the couple of times i've
read posts reZ:
the estate thing, you've been on nicosia's case. perhaps
i am being a bit
simplistic here, but ....
we should be (and
i am) glad nicosia is rapping on the list--about
anything he
wants. if we can think lisa rabey's rap on cocksucking is
okay for the
list, why whip out the cattleprods when nicosia et al go
back and forth on
the estate thing?
i like reading
about the battle.
let's let the
camps have it out.
it's much more
interesting than all the geek posts from people wondering
whether george
bush, george clooney, kesey, socks the cat, and bozo the
clown, etc. are
beat or not.
let the voices
roll. keep yer fingers on the delete key. and keep yer
heads open. after
all, this is advertised as a "forum", right?
regards,
steve
Steve R. Smith
Graduate Teaching
Assistant
Department of
English
Portland State
University
Box 751 Portland,
OR 97207
503-725-3556
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 00:06:21 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: hello
In a message
dated 97-05-24 21:49:37 EDT, chatfield@VOYAGER.NET (chatfield
residence) writes:
<< i would
not like to tie up the list with things that most people would
find
annoying, especially because i am new here. :
)
thanks. >>
Dear amy jean -
what a refreshing
and considerate attitude. you are setting a good example.
others who
consider themselves Kerouac experts could learn from your gentle
thoughtfulness.
Talking about the beats is why we're here, most of us, so you
could never annoy
us with that.
In response to
your question: sometimes the phrase "beat generation" refers
to the writers
and other principals, and sometimes (perhaps less often) it is
used to indicate
all the people of that generation. If you want to know how
Kerouac
influenced the beat generation writers, you need to realize that he,
Allen Ginsberg and
William Burroughs are the only ones whom everyone agrees
"belong"
as beat writers. They were all friends and they influenced each
other.
It is sometimes
thought that Kerouac had more influence on the following
generation -
let's call them the hippies for nostalgia's sake! - than he did
on people of his
own age group.
I concur with
Antoine about the various resources available and would also
recommend
spending some
time with the Jack Kerouac ROMnibus
CD-ROM if you can borrow
(or afford) one.
Good luck!
Jul
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 00:44:30 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: a calm request-Lisa is right
>If you want
to start a serious discussion about Jack, Phil, then answer me
>this. Did you know Jack when your were a kid? Tell us about it. I'm sure
>others will
be interested and it will allow you and me to talk about
>something
where we aren't on opposite sides of the fence.
>
>
>Jerry Cimino
>
>Thanks Jerry,
I did meet Jack once although it is not much of a story and
it's kind of a
sad one to me. It was around 1966 (I'm not sure of the exact
date) I was 13 or
14 years old and my father had picked up Jack and the two
of them were
going to go into Boston for a night out on the town. My father
in his grand
wisdom had thought it would be a memorable experience for me to
go with them,
probably so I could get to know Jack and maybe he was thinking
that at some
point in my life I would realize what an incredibly cool
experience it
would have been. So anyway they drove up to where I was
hanging around at
the time (a park in downtown Lowell) called Lucy Larcom
park. I was a
long haired hippie at the time and my father lived in another
area of town than
I did because my parents had divorced. That's why I hadn't
met Jack before
because my father mostly went to his house and picked him up
because he didn't
drive and my father also had a car. He had only been over
to my father's
house a few times, although Jack had met my father's mother
my Memere and he
also introduced his mother Gabrielle to my Memere. Memere
to Memere. So
anyway he called me over to the car and introduced Jack to me.
He was sitting in
the back of the car and I reached in and shook his hand
and said hello.
My father then told me that they were going into Boston for
the night and he
asked me if I wanted to go with him. Like a
fool-moron-jerk-idiot-
I declined and told them politely thanks anyway but
I'd would rather
just hang around the park. There was some kind of action
going on and at
the time (I was probably going to score and get high or
something) I
wasn't into Kerouac then. I just knew him as the famous Lowell
author and good
friend of my dad's. My brother on the other hand was really
into Jack and had
read every single book Jack had written. I realized later
that Jack had
probably gotten into the back seat that night assuming I would
go with them and
maybe it was kind of an insult but then again maybe it was
just so Jack
could be more comfortable. What I remember of him that night is
that he already
had a good head start on his night out. In other words he
was already
starting to get pretty drunk and I could tell. He also looked
fat to me at the
time and red faced. Looking back I wouldn't now think he
was fat but
that's what I thought of him at the time. I guess I was
expecting
something else. So that's about it the only other time was about 2
or 3 years later
in 69 when they buried him. I was going to St. Joseph's
High School at
the time which is just down the street from St. Jean the
Baptist church
where they had the funeral mass for Jack. I skipped out of
class and walked
down the street and stood in the doorway of Voyer's florist
shop. I knew Joe
Voyer he was a pretty cool guy (he also knew Jack and my
dad) and let me
hang out or hide out while I watched my father as a
pallbearer carry
Jack's body into the church. The night I didn't go with
them Jack and my
dad went over and asked my brother Tony if he wanted to go
with them and of
course he jumped at the chance. He had the most memorable
experience of his
life. He really loved Jack. He got to drill Jack with all
kinds of
questions like "what was your favorite drug?" things only a teen
would ask. I have
been trying to get him to write a story about it for a
long time. He promises
me now he will do it soon. He lives in California.
Jack did mention
me in one of his letters when he asked my dad " ...have you
found your boy
yet..." I had ran away from home for a while at 14 and had
started my own
"on the road" trip. Stella had also sent a Christmas card in
1968 asking my
dad "Have you found Philip?" I still have that card and
letter and I
cherish them. To this day I regret not having gone with my dad
and Jack that
night. So that's how I got to know and love Jack Kerouac.
Thanks for asking
and listening. Phil
I was wondering
if anyone else on the list might have a story to tell about
meeting Jack or
any of the beats. Might be an interesting thread.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 22:01:34 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: a calm request-Lisa is right
... The night I
didn't go with
>them Jack and
my dad went over and asked my brother Tony if he wanted to go
>with them and
of course he jumped at the chance. He had the most memorable
>experience of
his life. He really loved Jack. He got to drill Jack with all
>kinds of
questions like "what was your favorite drug?" things only a teen
>would ask. I
have been trying to get him to write a story about it for a
>long time. He
promises me now he will do it soon. He lives in California.
>Jack did
mention me in one of his letters when he asked my dad " ...have you
>found your
boy yet..." I had ran away from home for a while at 14 and had
>started my
own "on the road" trip. Stella had also sent a Christmas card in
>1968 asking
my dad "Have you found Philip?" I still have that card and
>letter and I
cherish them. To this day I regret not having gone with my dad
>and Jack that
night. So that's how I got to know and love Jack Kerouac.
>Thanks for
asking and listening. Phil
>
>I was
wondering if anyone else on the list might have a story to tell about
>meeting Jack
or any of the beats. Might be an interesting thread.
>
Phil, May 24, 1997
I remember sitting in your dad's
kitchen, and Tony telling me that
same story. I think I even put it on tape.
Thanks for your memories.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:01:10 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Bush
Well, Steve, I
think that Barbara Bush is beat, George is pure skull and
cross bones.
Peace,
Hillary, no, Bill yes,
Snoopy yes, Socks
the Cat no
me, yes, my wife,
no
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:09:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: hello
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
> At 09:53 PM
5/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
> >hi, my
name is amy jean, and i am new on this list. i have joined
> because i
> >am doing
a research project on jack kerouac and i thought that many
> of the
> >people
on this list would be knowledgeable in that area. My question
> for
> >research
is, "How did Jack kerouac influence, and how was he
> influenced
by,
> >the
"beat generation"?"
> >if a few
kind people have any ideas on what books would be helpful to
> me,
> >or if
anyone has any answers to that question themselves, please
> e-mail me
> >at
>
>chatfield@voyager.net
> >i would
not like to tie up the list with things that most people
> would find
>
>annoying, especially because i am new here. : )
> >thanks.
> >--amy
jean
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>"hold me down, catching my throat, make me pray, say, love's
>
confined."
> >-r.e.m.
> >
> Dear Amy
Jean-- May 24, 1997
>
> Thanks for giving me the chance to
show I don't think about
> literary
> estates and
lawsuits all my waking hours (my little daughter Wu Ji
> would
> never allow
that).
> Read my biography of Jack Kerouac,
MEMORY BABE (from
> University
of
> California
Press), or if you're not into 800-page books, read a
> shorter
> version of
things by Steven Turner called ANGELHEADED HIPSTER
> (Viking);
read
> John Clellon
Holmes' NOTHING MORE TO DECLARE (reissued, I believe,
> from U.
> of Arkansas
Press); read John Tytell's NAKED ANGELS; get ahold of the
> catalogue to
the Whitney Museum Show: BEAT CULTURE AND THE NEW AMERICA
> (you
> can order it
from the Whitney Museum Book Shop in New York City); and
> maybe
> try listening
to HOWLS RAPS & ROARS, on record, CD, or tape from
> Fantasy
> Records in
Berkeley. Better yet, if you are near
California, visit
> City
> Lights
Bookstore, the poetry and Beat room upstairs, see if you can
> have
> coffee with
the owner, poet Lawrence Ferlinghetti, and sit in
> Kerouac's
> corner in
Vesuvio's bar next door, where many of the old Beat poets
> still
> hang out,
like Jack Micheline, Howard Hart, Eugene Ruggles, and Marty
> Matz.
> Beat was a
very large community, of which only a small iceberg tip
> ever got
> famous; it
was supportive, compassionate, open toward life, and in
> constant
> pursuit of
joy and new experience--and Kerouac led the way.
> Best always, Gerry Nicosia
Amy Jean:
If you is interested
in beat and Kerouac, what better and cooler thing
could there be
than to post an question and get an answer from one of
the preeminent
biographers of Kerouac. Man, the www is
the collective
unconscious. Can you imagine the chat rooms with Neal, Jack,
Allen,
Vidal, Snyder,
Corson, and Rexroth ranting through the night.
Wow, like a holy
vision, it lights up my night!!!!
You don't know
how lucky you are. And I am glad that I
do know how
lucky I am to be
here today.
Thanks Gerry, and
you are just going to have to let the shit slid man.
Sometimes it
works out better that way.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:14:03 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: a calm request-Lisa is right
Phil Chaput
wrote:
> >If you
want to start a serious discussion about Jack, Phil, then
> answer me
>
>this. Did you know Jack when your
were a kid? Tell us about it.
> I'm sure
> >others
will be interested and it will allow you and me to talk about
>
>something where we aren't on opposite sides of the fence.
> >
> >
> >Jerry
Cimino
> >
> >Thanks
Jerry, I did meet Jack once although it is not much of a story
> and
> it's kind of
a sad one to me. It was around 1966 (I'm not sure of the
> exact
> date) I was
13 or 14 years old and my father had picked up Jack and
> the two
> of them were
going to go into Boston for a night out on the town.
Thanks for the
story. As I just said when I came across
Gerry's post to
the young
inquirer, Man, this is a great place to be.
I do appreciate
it.
Peace,
PS,
Wasn't something
written by Jack, or by a biographer about a kid from
Lowell being
along on a trip?
Well, the best I
can say is that Jack died on my 16th birthday. October
21.
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:19:27 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Philip Whalen
Question re:
Philip Whalen:
Can anyone tell me how much of Whalen's
poetry is still in print and
from who?
And, does anyone know
where/in-what-book his poem "big, high song to
somebody"
was published?
Thanks, Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:19:25 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: ...your story Phil and Jack in Brooklyn
That was great to read Phil. Thanks
very much. Tell your brother
that you now have
a bunch of salivating expectant readers waiting...and that
you won't give
out his home address if he writes the damn story! I can put
it in with this
and the piece that you sent me by Nicosia about Jack and
your Dad on the
road to Montreal. Thanks.
Having grown up in Brooklyn - the
Bedford-Stuyvesant/Flatbush/Park
Slope area - I'd
appreciate it if anyone could tell me where in Brooklyn
Jack was staying
with his aunt while he was going to Horace Mann.
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:32:06 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: a calm request-Lisa is right
Gentlemen! (Phil and Gerry)!
What a delight to
get both of your posts back to back, one after another on
my email. Nicosia sitting in Chaput Sr.'s kitchen
talking to Phil's brother
about Jack. All of us having been caught in the cross
fire the last few
days, who'd have
thought it! :^)
Gerry, what about
you? I don't think you ever met Jack in
person, but I
could be
mistaken. And if not, what got you in to
him in the first place.
Maybe we can put
the war aside for a little while and talk about the man
himself. And then if and when we start *debating*
again maybe things will be
a little more
diffused. Whaddya say all? It's a holiday weekend... even in
real shooting
wars they usually stop firing on Christmas eve and Christmas
being a long way
off maybe this is the next best thing!
Jerry Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:38:04 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: Tony's Story and Gerry's....
Gerry,
Is there an easy way to tell whether
you actually did tape Tony
telling that
story? ...and is it part of the
holdings of your archive at
Lowell? Thanks
Gerry.
Thanks you also by the way for your kind
offer of the signed copy of
"Memory
Babe". A friend beat you to the punch in finding me a copy of an
earlier edition.
The response to my request was amazing, because in rapid
succession I had
e-mails from Derek Beaulieu, Jerry Cimino, and yourself and
a phone call!
from Rod Anstee...all with offers of the book! So, at any
rate, it's on its
way to me - and not a moment too soon. I'm heading into
the home stretch
on McNally's book (after David Rhaesa blew by me at high
speed! - he had
been about 40 pages back when we started tracking each
other's progress)
and will need another Kerouac biography to keep going
with. Am now
interested also in "Angel Headed Hipster" after seeing it
mentioned several
times in recent posts. Still have the Arthur and Kit
Knoght, Gregory
Stephenson, and Challis books waiting in the wings as backups.
How did you come to do the "Memory
Babe" bio? Did you arrive at it
from academia /
teaching?
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 02:05:16 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re:
Law suits
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%97052420300442@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Gentle
listmembers, I don't think Beat-l is the proper place to give or
>take legal
depositions. Let's leave any talk of
lawsuits in the
>attorney's
office where they belong or at least threaten each other
>privately.
However, if suits
are filed, please inform the list.
j grant
BE ON THE WATCH
for items stolen
from the Keroauc Collection
O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
Academic &
Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
302,443
visitors since July 1, 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 03:43:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cosmic Baseball Association
<cosmic@CLARK.NET>
Subject: Beat and Marriage
>Well, Steve,
I think that Barbara Bush is beat, George is pure skull and
>cross bones.
-snip-
>me, yes, my
wife, no
>
>--
>Bentz
>bocelts@scsn.net
Is it possible to
be beat and married?
Regards,
Andrew
cosmic@clark.net
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 03:27:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Law suits
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
>
> At 10:27 PM
5/24/97 -0500, you wrote:
> >Gerald
Nicosia wrote:
> >>
> >> At
09:34 PM 5/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
> >>
>In a message dated 97-05-24 20:43:44 EDT, you write:
> >>
>
> >>
>>he will be held accountable for whatever he says here that is damaging
> to my
> >>
>professional reputation.
> >>
>> Thank you.
> >>
>> Yours truly, Gerald
Nicosia
> >>
>
> >>
>'Seems to me that you should consider suing yourself, too, Gerry.
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
> >>
C'mon, Rod, you can do better than that.
We expect something REALLY NASTY
> >>
from you. Dennis Rodman wouldn't even
roll his eyeballs at that one.
>
>> Best, Gerry
> >
> >What's
with all the Rodman-bashing???
> >
> Hey, Dave,
>
> I LIKE Dennis Rodman. Why was that a bash?
> Best, Gerry
i misread. my foul.
i like Dennis too.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 03:43:54 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Tony's Story and Gerry's....
Antoine Maloney
wrote:
>
> Gerry,
>
> Is there an easy way to tell whether
you actually did tape Tony
> telling that
story? ...and is it part of the
holdings of your archive at
> Lowell? Thanks
Gerry.
>
> Thanks you also by the way for your
kind offer of the signed copy of
> "Memory
Babe". A friend beat you to the punch in finding me a copy of an
> earlier
edition. The response to my request was amazing, because in rapid
> succession I
had e-mails from Derek Beaulieu, Jerry Cimino, and yourself and
> a phone
call! from Rod Anstee...all with offers of the book! So, at any
> rate, it's
on its way to me - and not a moment too soon. I'm heading into
> the home
stretch on McNally's book (after David Rhaesa blew by me at high
> speed! - he
had been about 40 pages back when we started tracking each
> other's
progress) and will need another Kerouac biography to keep going
> with. Am now
interested also in "Angel Headed Hipster" after seeing it
> mentioned
several times in recent posts. Still have the Arthur and Kit
> Knoght,
Gregory Stephenson, and Challis books waiting in the wings as backups.
>
> How did you come to do the
"Memory Babe" bio? Did you arrive at it
> from
academia / teaching?
>
> Antoine
> Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
>
> "An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
> -- Norman Navrotsky
and Utah Phillips
Right now I'm
reading Memory Babe and Charter's Kerouac at the same
time. very different styles both incredible. I also checked you Dharma
Lion about
Ginsberg but haven't really cracked it yet.
though three at
the same time
might be fun.
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 05:13:54 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: A bright sunny day in May
Hey Mark,
I got the Kerouac
Quarterly, thanks.
Hows it going.
Still I haven't made it to Portland but
I'm enjoying my stay
here in Northern
California. I might be back to New York for a week or so in
July but I don't
know it I'll make it up north.
well, now I think
that things will start to slowly start dying down. But it
has been an
interesting ride. I personally think I got a little scholarship
out of this whole
thing, since I learned a few new things.
later, Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 07:19:46 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: thanks, phil
In-Reply-To:
<2.2.32.19970525044430.006adf58@pop.tiac.net>
great story.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 07:19:50 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
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From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Beat and Marriage
In-Reply-To: <199705250743.DAA00985@mail.clark.net>
andrew wrote
>Is it
possible to be beat and married?
@@@@@@@@@
hey andrew, i
dont have an answer for you, but have to thank you for
question, and
upon digging through all things beat, ijust found and re-read
corso's pome 'marriage'
too long for me
to type out. here are a few salient
quotes:
should i get
married? should i be good?
astound the girl
next door
with my velvet
suit and faustus hood?...
........
O God and the
wedding! all her family and her friends
and only a
handful of mine all scroungy and bearded
just waiting to
get at the drinks and food
.........
o but what about
love? i forget love
not that i am
incapable of love
it's just that i
see love as odd as wearing shoes--
i never wanted to
marry a girl who was like my mother
and ingrid
bergman was always impossible
and there's maybe
a girl now but she's already married
and i dont like
men and--
but there's bound
to be somebody!
because what if
i'm 60 years old and not married,
all alone in a
furnished room with pee stains on my underwear
and everybody
else is married! all the universt married but me!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 06:43:36 -0500
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Beat and Marriage
Marie Countryman
wrote:
>
> andrew wrote
> >Is it
possible to be beat and married?
> @@@@@@@@@
> hey andrew,
i dont have an answer for you, but have to thank you for
> question,
and upon digging through all things beat, ijust found and re-read
> corso's pome 'marriage'
> too long for
me to type out. here are a few salient
quotes:
>
> should i get
married? should i be good?
> astound the
girl next door
> with my
velvet suit and faustus hood?...
> ........
> O God and
the wedding! all her family and her friends
> and only a
handful of mine all scroungy and bearded
> just waiting
to get at the drinks and food
> .........
> o but what
about love? i forget love
> not that i
am incapable of love
> it's just
that i see love as odd as wearing shoes--
> i never
wanted to marry a girl who was like my mother
> and ingrid
bergman was always impossible
> and there's
maybe a girl now but she's already married
> and i dont
like men and--
> but there's
bound to be somebody!
> because what
if i'm 60 years old and not married,
> all alone in
a furnished room with pee stains on my underwear
> and
everybody else is married! all the universt married but me!
I just read this
one recently in some collection. at
times it made my
bone marrow jerk
a bit the identifications were so compleat.
Another morning
and another wonderful day started by the notes from
sweet marie. a true breath of fresh air.
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 08:08:04 -0400
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From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Thanks for your support
In a message
dated 97-05-24 20:35:06 EDT, Gerry Nicosia writes:
<< In the short 3-year history of DHARMA BEAT,
you have received
numerous full-page ads from Viking/Penguin .....
No other Kerouac publication ever got
that kind of major advertising
>>
Dear Mr.
Nicosiais:
If your publisher
is interested in placing a full page ad, please have them
contact me. I'll
see if I can ok it with the proper authorities.
Best,
Attila Gyenis
Editor
DHARMA beat
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 14:16:34 +0200
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From: Nils-Oivind Haagensen
<Nils-Oivind.Haagensen@LILI.UIB.NO>
In-Reply-To:
<"noralf.uib.646:25.05.97.04.02.54"@uib.no>
Tra un fiore
colto e l'altro donato
l'inesprimibile
vanita
Fiore doppio
nato in grembo
alla madonna
della gioia
Between a flower
gathered and the other given/ the inexpressible vanity/ /
Double flower/
born of the womb of our lady/ of joy
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 09:25:12 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: You go JO
However, if suits
are filed, please inform the list.
j grant
____________________________
Jo:
I don't know if
you were just serious, or if you also were poking fun at
our love of the
morbidity of it all, but to me, LOL. And
as an
attorney, yeah
let me know too! ;-)
Peace
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 09:36:55 -0400
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Word games
I have always
loved word games. Even though I have
always sucked at
crossword
puzzles. I always saw them like a haiku,
and love Rexroths
One Hundred Poems
from the Japanese and Snyders use of Japanese-Oriental
imagery. Since someone else posted some cool stuff, I
thought I would
risk the
criticism of the beat world and post one of my little attempts
at irony things
here. Please excuse me.
Toxic Reins
The City and the
Country
Are two places.
If my wife was
not blind to Toxi-city,
My children could
ride horses.
Like Bukowski.
May 25, 1997 9:34
AM
Since all the
comments about Bukowski, I could not resist the allusion.
Peace,
Bentz
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 09:39:39 -0400
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: Beat and Marriage
Comments: To:
cosmic@clark.net
Cosmic Baseball
Association wrote:
> >Well,
Steve, I think that Barbara Bush is beat, George is pure skull
> and
> >cross
bones.
> -snip-
> >me, yes,
my wife, no
> >
> >--
> >Bentz
>
>bocelts@scsn.net
>
> Is it
possible to be beat and married?
>
> Regards,
> Andrew
>
cosmic@clark.net
Andrew:
Is the CBA
open? I have not been able to get back
in lately. I was
trying to tell
someone of your wonderful site and the the URL started
telling me that
clark.net does not exist.
Thanks and oh
yeah, probably it is a bumpy bumpy ride, because two beats
should not
marry. They would spin off into a morass
of
ADD/hyperactivity.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 10:50:24 -0400
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Corso on Kerouac
As I prepare for
my trip to San Francisco, I have pulled all my City
Lights Pocket
Poets off the shelf and begun to read and re-read them. I
want to drink a
coffee with Lawrence, and I want to feel the grass in
the park that is
the child of the grass that Jack felt.
So, I started
today with
Elegiac Feelings American (for the dear memory of John
Kerouac) by
Gregory Corso. I think parts are worth
repeating, Yo, Race,
this can't be
Marie, but it could be absolutely sweet:
1.
How inseparable
you and the America you saw yet was
never there to see; you and America, like
the
tree and the ground, are one the same; yet
how
like a palm tree in the state of Oregon...
dead
ere it blossomed, like a snow polar loping
the
Miami--
How so that which
you were and hoped to be, and the
America not, the America you saw yet could
not see
So like yet
unlike the ground from which you stemmed;
you stood upon America like a rootless
flat-bottomed tree; to the squirrel there
was no
divorcement in its hop of ground to its
climb of tree
......................
Was it not so
much our finding America as it was America
finding its voice in us; many spoke to
America
as though America by land-right was theirs
by
law-right legislatively acquired by
materialistic
coups of wealth and inheritance; like the
citizen
of society believes himself the owner of
society.
and what he makes of himself, he makes of
America and thus when he speaks of America
he speaks of himself, and quite often such
a he
is duly elected to represent what he
represents...
an infernal ego of an America
.........................
Alas Jack, seems
I cannot requiem thee without
requieming America, and that's one requiem
I shall not presume, for as long as I live
there'll
be no requiems for me
................
Yours the eyes
that saw, the heart that felt, the voice that
sang and cried; and as long as America
shall
live, though ye old Kerouac body hath died,
yet shall ye live... for indeed ours was a
time
of prophesy without death as a
consequence...
for indeed after us came the time of the
assassins,
and who'll doubt thy last words "After
me...
the
deluge"
........................................
We came to
announce the human spirit in the name of
beauty and truth; and now this spirit cries
out in
nature's sake the horrnedous imbalance of
all
things natural... elusive nature caught!
like a
bird in hand, harnessed and engineered in
the
unevolutional ways of experiment and
technique
What hope for the
America so embodied in thee, O friend,
when the very same alcohol that disembodied
your brother redman of his America,
disembodied ye-- A plot to grab their land,
we
know--yet what plot to grab the ungrabbable
land of one's spirit? ....
............
[Then on to the
end of Chapter 4 and this beautiful, tearful tribute to
John Kerouac and
indictment of our country and world that still rings so
true with
cloning, rain forest rape, genetic engineering, etc. Thanks
Gregory]
....
And you were
flashed upon the old and darkling day
a Beat Christ-boy... bearing the gentle
roundness of things
insisting that the soul was not square
And soon...behind thee
there came a-following
the children of flowers
By Gregory Corso,
North Beach, San Francisco, 1969
This yet, brings
tears to my eyes and chills to my whole body. What love
for Jack and his
work, what truth of feelings spoken. The
honesty of
Jack's faults,
that some would deny, what honesty about the treachery
that gave birth
to this country, what passion for Jack's vision. Can
there be any
doubt as to the identity of Bob Dylan's Tambourine Man, no,
it is Jack
Kerouac! But, of course it is many
others as well, but it is
Jack Kerouac,
Tambourine Man to whom we all dance. And
yes the beats
were more, but
without Jack, there were no more beats.
Hey! Mister
Tambourine Man, play a song for me
I'm not sleepy
and there is no place I'm going to.
Hey! Mister
Tabourine Man, play a song for me,
In the jingle
jangle morning I'll come following you.
Peace, and don't
forget to pray for Ti Jean, because we are now he.
That's my church
for the day!
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 11:07:53 -0400
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From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat and Marriage
Andrew:
Yes. 31 years.
Best,
Pamela Beach
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 11:45:45 -0400
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From: Michael Czarnecki
<peent@SERVTECH.COM>
Subject: Book info.
I have a book
coming out June 4th, TWENTY DAYS ON ROUTE 20, a haibun
(condensed prose
& haiku) account of a cross-country journey taken last
fall. If anyone's
interested please E-mail me privately (don't think I
should take up
any more list space than this for the book) and I'll E-mail
flyer/details.
Thanks,
Michael
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 17:45:28 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Ungaretti.
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.96.970525141314.617A-100000@alfred.uib.no>
At 14.16 25/05/97
+0200, Nils-Oivind Haagensen wrote:
>Tra un fiore
colto e l'altro donato
>l'inesprimibile
vanita
>
>Fiore doppio
>nato in
grembo alla madonna
>della gioia
>
>Between a
flower gathered and the other given/ the inexpressible vanity/ /
>Double
flower/ born of the womb of our lady/ of joy
>
>
Caro Nils-Oivind
Haagensen, GRAZIE!,
grande citazione!
UNGARETTI! il grande poeta italiano di questo
secolo, la poesia
esattamente recita:
---------------------------------------------------------------
ETERNO
Tra un fiore colto e
l'altro donato
l'inesprimibile nulla
--- Giuseppe
Ungaretti, Ultime, Milano 1914-1915---------------
grazie e cari
saluti e buona domenica da
Rinaldo Rasa.
NON GRIDATE
PIU' di Giuseppe Ungaretti, da
"I Ricordi"
Cessate
d'uccidere i morti,
Non gridate piu',
non gridate
Se li volete
ancora udire,
Se sperate di non
perire.
Hanno
l'impercettibile sussurro,
non fanno piu'
rumore
Del crescere
dell'erba,
Lieta dove passa
l'uomo.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 08:59:33 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
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From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat and Marriage
In-Reply-To: <3388411A.30565089@scsn.net> from
"R. Bentz Kirby" at May 25,
97 09:39:39 am
Bentz wrote:
> Thanks and
oh yeah, probably it is a bumpy bumpy ride, because two beats
> should not
marry. They would spin off into a morass
of ADD/hyperactivity.
I've been married
seven years, and this has become a regular cycle by
now. With some smart scheduling, we can make the
hyperactivity wave
happen on
weekends and the attention-deficit part on weekdays. It
also helps me
that my wife can't stand the Beats (keeps us balanced).
That Gregory
Corso poem is the best, too ...
------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock album)
###################################
"Tie yourself to a tree with
roots"
-- Bob Dylan
-----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 13:32:25 -0400
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From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat and Marriage
Levi,
My wife couldn't
stand the beats either when we first got married. I think
it's got to do
with that "he's gonna run off and sow his wild oats leaving me
stuck at home
alone" female thing. Can't imagine
why any woman would think
that about people
like Neal Cassady?
Now she's
involved in a business where she's talking beat everyday. She
really focused in
on the women writers, Hettie Jones, Joyce Johnson, Diane
DiPrima, Carolyn
etc and it turned her around. She
especially enjoyed the
new Women &
the BG recently released.
Jerry Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 10:32:54 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
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From: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Tony's Story and Gerry's....
>Gerry,
>
> Is there an easy way to tell whether
you actually did tape Tony
>telling that
story? ...and is it part of the
holdings of your archive at
>Lowell?
Thanks Gerry.
>
> Antoine
> Voice
contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
>
> "An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
> -- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
>
Dear
Antoine, May 25, 1997
Yes, I checked my 48 page catalogue of
what I put on deposit at U
Mass, Lowell, and
THERE WAS A TAPED INTERVIEW OF TONY CHAPUT INCLUDED IN THE
COLLECTION. I'm sure that's the story.
Now we'll need a signed letter from
Tony in California to Martha
Mayo at the
Special Collections, Mogan Center, U Mass, Lowell, 40 French
St., Lowell,
Mass, telling Ms. Mayo's it's okay for people to listen to the
tape and to read
the transcription.
That's if the Chaput tape and
transcription are not among the many
missing items
from the collection. And I'm also not
100% sure Ms. Mayo
won't come up
with yet another excuse to keep Tony's interview off limits,
but it would be
interesting if Tony sent in a permission letter to see if
people could actually
get access to it.
However, you see the difficulty of
chipping one little stone free at
a time, from a
wall (collection) that is built of thousands of stones. I
need a legal
action to free the entire collection at one time.
I was getting my master's at U of I,
Chicago, in 1972, when I was
prodded into
reading Kerouac by my officemate (we were teaching assistants
together), a hip
Jewish kid named John Simon from Harvard. Until then I'd
been forced to
read all the academic standards of modern American fiction,
Roth, Bellow,
Mailer, Updike, et al. But on my own I
had read Thoreau and
Whitman and Jack
London, so I was tremendously receptive when I read the
first 5 pages of
THE DHARMA BUMS and found all this spirituality,
compassion, and
concern for the common, workingclass people.
You see, my
father was a
socialist from Chicago, who had read most of Jack London when
young --he had
even hitchhiked to California at the age of 17 in 1927 and
had told me many
of his own "road tales" while I was growing up. My father
also used to read
to me from London's THE IRON HEEL, to teach me about the
oppression of the
poor by the rich, so when I read Kerouac I knew
immediately I had
found a brother soul. (We'd both been
raised ethnic
Catholic to boot,
me Italian Catholic, Jack of course French Catholic.)
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 10:43:17 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
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From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Thanks for your support
At 08:08 AM
5/25/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message
dated 97-05-24 20:35:06 EDT, Gerry Nicosia writes:
>
><< In the short 3-year history of DHARMA BEAT,
you have received
> numerous
full-page ads from Viking/Penguin .....
> No other Kerouac publication ever got
that kind of major advertising
>>>
>
>Dear Mr.
Nicosiais:
>
>If your
publisher is interested in placing a full page ad, please have them
>contact me.
I'll see if I can ok it with the proper authorities.
>
>Best,
>Attila Gyenis
>Editor
>DHARMA beat
>
>
Dear Attila, May 25, 1997
Levi says you're my friend, but you
seem to have forgotten how to
spell my name.
Since you're my friend, I was expecting
at least the first ad for free.
Thanks.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 12:58:33 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
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From: John Mitchell
<mitchell@AUGSBURG.EDU>
Subject: Garb for Holy Goof
Well in 15
minutes I'm off to my 29th commencement at this institute of
higher learning
wearing my Master's Degree (in English!) garb, which looks
like the skin of
a wet bat dangling from my arms, my legs sore from yam yum
in the 4th circle
of hell, but yesterday my wife and I went to the Mall of
America Memorial
Day 50% off plus 20% sale, and--get ready for this--bought
my first pair of
grown-up pants in years (with cuffs!)--and a Gerry Garcia
tie (not on
sale)! I look great! (You're only as old as you look!) Good
enough for
litigation, if not as good as Allen Ginsberg in white shirt and
tie reading HOWL!
for the first time. May the Great
Speckled Bird be with
you all for the
weekend. // Gratefully dead, John M.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 14:03:14 -0400
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From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Tony's Story and Gerry's....
What a
fascinating storyline here. And it's
kind of ironic too. We've
actually learned
something kind of major through calm discussion.
Phil Chuput tells
a story about his brother Tony. It's a
first person
account and we're
all touched by it to one degree or another and others say
Tony ought to
type it up and preserve it. Phil says
he's been after Tony to
do it for years
and thinks he may do it soon.
Gerry Nicosia
says he taped that same story directly from Tony's lips and in
fact the audio
tape is sitting in Lowell in a collection that no one has
access to on an
old tape that is probably rotting away.
Kind of makes you
wonder how far honest dialogue and discourse can take us.
Jerry Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 14:36:14 -0400
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From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: Tony's Story and Gerry's....
....and me, Irish Catholic! In 1970 I
and a friend hitched back and
forth across the
United states and Canada. You can't do that without
developing a huge
store of stories, so I can only imagine the kind of
stories your Dad
had to tell. Did he ever talk about whether his Italianess
(word?) was
recognized and what kinds of reactions he got? And what kinds of
travelling times
must he have been talking about - no freeways and I guess
nothing like the
long haul trucking that you have now...although we never
had any luck in
having truckers stop to pick us up with all the regulations
they have to live
under now.
Chicago was one of the few major places
that we never ended up in -
along with Los
Angeles - and it wasn't until five or six years ago that I
got to the windy
city for far too short a visit! At least got to fulfill my
dream of visiting
the filed Museum.
Was all your father's travelling on the
road or did he ride the
rails as well?
Was he going to California to work or just to go?
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 14:42:50 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Lies, Money, and other non important
matters.
In a message
dated 97-05-24 23:54:09 EDT, Gerry Nicosia writes:
<< I would
have to be a fool >>
Dear Gerry,
If I thought that
I have to respond to your charges, I would.
best, Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 15:04:42 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Garb for Holy Goof
In-Reply-To:
<l03020900afae3a217417@[141.224.144.84]>
may jerry send
you numerous blessings, safe as he is in heaven with AG, JK
and the rest of
the heavenly choir
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 14:36:29 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Thanks for your support
In-Reply-To:
<970525080803_371706416@emout11.mail.aol.com>
>In a message
dated 97-05-24 20:35:06 EDT, Gerry Nicosia writes:
>
><< In the short 3-year history of DHARMA BEAT,
you have received
> numerous
full-page ads from Viking/Penguin .....
> No other Kerouac publication ever got
that kind of major advertising
>>>
>
>Dear Mr.
Nicosiais:
>
>If your
publisher is interested in placing a full page ad, please have them
>contact me.
I'll see if I can ok it with the proper authorities.
>
>Best,
>Attila Gyenis
>Editor
>DHARMA beat
Am I missing
something? "Nicosiais" rather than Nicosia? Play on a word?
Perhaps miffed
after an enlightening rundown on your ad sales?
Would have
enjoyed a response that was a bit more substantial.
j grant
BE ON THE WATCH
for items stolen
from the Keroauc Collection
O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
Academic &
Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
302,443
visitors since July 1, 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 16:31:43 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: the tragedy of it all (to nicosia, chaput
et al.)
In-Reply-To:
<9704248645.AA864508671@Mail.ff.cc.mn.us>
hello fellows,
i do believe this
may be the first direct response of mine regarding the
continuing shit
storm.
so today i set
down to scan _memory babe_ again,
looking for the voice of gerald nicosia which
has been missing in all of
the words written
in this lengthy word war..
when
i came across the
photo
of jan kerouac
taken in 1978,
her head held
proudly,
hair riffling
back in the breeze.
and i said out
loud, all to myself,
'my god, this
woman is a beauty!'
by which i meant
you could see the beauty
in her eyes, the
pain and the knowledge
gained at great
cost,
as i gazed at her
generously beautiful features
i thought, yes,
she was her father's daughter.
and i wept.
for the pain of
jack
which led, in part, to the pain
inflicted on his
daughter,
and how the
estate wars
with the shrill
fear in which
voices raised
'gainst one another here
--however amusing
or informative to some.
sorry guys,
but i mostly feel
sad over this whole emotional/legal mess...
may jan be dead
and safe in heaven
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 16:45:22 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Fwd: RE: Hello
---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: chatfield@voyager.net (chatfield residence)
To: jhulvey@aol.com
Date: 97-05-25
16:14:34 EDT
julie:
thank you for
your answers to my question. i will check out the CD-ROM if i
can. it sounds
like it would be cool, even if it doesn't help me with my
research paper.
if you get a
chance, would you send a mail to the list saying how grateful
i am for
everyone's suggestions? i have to unsub because of the volume of
mail. i can only
check my mail once or twice a day, and i can't handle
having 60-70
messages to read. i just don't have the time.
i think this list
is a great idea and if i have any questions i may be
re-joining,
asking them, and then unsubbing, like the commitment ducker
that i am. :)
thanks for the
ideas!
--amy jean
"hold me
down, catching my throat, make me pray, say, love's confined."
-r.e.m.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 23:57:12 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: hipster talk
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.96.970525141314.617A-100000@alfred.uib.no>
\\
.clonkk\
\
\\boff
blip\bleep
\
bop
beep\
\
clink\biff\
.
kerouac.
. described
. the velocity life of the 20th century\\\
the not music .
by john cage ../
caught the sound of the environment.
//.
clink\\
beeep
\\
bleep
bop\\
bliiip\\\\
\\
\
yrs
rinaldo
-Rust Never
Sleeps-
*
There's more the
picture
Than meets the
eye
*
(Neil Young &
Jeff Blackburn)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 23:30:25 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: AH I
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.96.970525141314.617A-100000@alfred.uib.no>
"There's just something about it
which
allows me to write a certain way, like
an actual language style
which happens to be inspired as much by
the South as it by
Shakespeare or The Bible or whatever.
But it allows me to
write in the first person, and I felt
this way. And I write
'Ah' instead of 'I'"
Nick Cave.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 23:29:47 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: the twister haiku
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.96.970525141314.617A-100000@alfred.uib.no>
\\ \\
i \\\\
have\
a \
\\
life\
but \
\ i \
can't \\ use \
it\\
\\\ \\\
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 18:08:01 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Memory Babe Archive
In-Reply-To: Message of Sat, 24 May 1997 19:55:16 -0700
from
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Gerry, how many
of the 300 people you interviewed do you still have addresses f
or? Why not write a form letter and try to get
their permission to open their
letters and tapes
now? Maybe all of us at Beat-l could
help you contact people
who are hard to find? We maight not locate everyone but we sure
could make a
dent and open up
a huge chunk of the archive. Seems to me
to be a better alter
native than
another law suit.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 18:24:35 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Beat and Marriage
In-Reply-To: Message of Sun, 25 May 1997 03:43:37 -0400
from <cosmic@CLARK.NET>
On Sun, 25 May
1997 03:43:37 -0400 Cosmic Baseball Association said:
>>Well,
Steve, I think that Barbara Bush is beat, George is pure skull and
>>cross
bones.
>-snip-
>>me, yes,
my wife, no
>>
>>--
>>Bentz
>>bocelts@scsn.net
>
>Is it
possible to be beat and married?
>
>Regards,
>Andrew
>cosmic@clark.net
Ask Gregory Corso!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 19:46:31 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: Memory Babe Archive
Bill Gargan
wrote:
> Gerry, how
many of the 300 people you interviewed do you still have
> addresses f
> or? Why not write a form letter and try to get
their permission to
> open their
> letters and
tapes now? Maybe all of us at Beat-l
could help you
> contact
people
> who are hard to find? We maight not locate everyone but we sure
> could make a
> dent and
open up a huge chunk of the archive.
Seems to me to be a
> better alter
> native than
another law suit.
Bill:
Is there a valid
restriction. The little bit that I read
is that UMASS
at Lowell just
has a school policy and it is not based upon law. If
someone on the
list is aware of any actual statutes that apply, I would
be interested.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 20:51:22 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: the tragedy of it all (to nicosia,
chaput et al.)
Marie Countryman
wrote:
>
> hello
fellows,
> i do believe
this may be the first direct response of mine regarding the
> continuing
shit storm.
> so today i
set down to scan _memory babe_ again,
> looking for the voice of gerald nicosia which
has been missing in all of
> the words
written in this lengthy word war..
> when
> i came
across the photo
> of jan
kerouac
> taken in
1978,
> her head
held proudly,
> hair
riffling back in the breeze.
> and i said
out loud, all to myself,
> 'my god,
this woman is a beauty!'
> by which i
meant you could see the beauty
> in her eyes,
the pain and the knowledge
> gained at
great cost,
> as i gazed
at her generously beautiful features
> i thought,
yes, she was her father's daughter.
> and i wept.
> for the pain
of jack
> which
led, in part, to the pain
> inflicted on
his daughter,
> and how the
estate wars
> with the
shrill fear in which
> voices
raised 'gainst one another here
> --however
amusing or informative to some.
> sorry guys,
> but i mostly
feel sad over this whole emotional/legal mess...
> may jan be
dead and safe in heaven
> mc
I think you hit
the nail on the head when you speak of all of the pain
involved in this
family relationship, maybe in all family relationships.
I have read all of the posts about the estate
war since this whole thing
began on the list
several weeks ago. I think Mr. Nicosia
speaks from a
very personal
perspective of watching someone he cared greatly about die,
and then feeling
that he must continue to try and carry out her wishes.
I think what he
is trying to do for Jan is commendable.
I also think
that when you are
feeling that kind of pain on a personal level and then
you have to
battle several legal issues, emotions are bound to erupt.
But here on the
list we are only hearing the same accusations over and
over. Rarely is a new idea brought up. Today, the talk about Jack
rather than the
same old war was refreshing. Maybe
through conversations
about the words
and people, the war can slip into the background. I
think all of the
people writing about the estate problems should count
backwards from
500 to 1 before responding to each others posts. I, for
one, would like
to hear more stories about Jack (and his daughter) from
people who knew
them and were involved in their lives.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 23:56:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Lowell author-Jay Pendergast
May 25,1997
Lowell author and
friend of Jack Kerouac, Jay Pendergast died unexpectedly
this afternoon.
Jay had just written a story about Jack in Paul Maher's
premiere issue of
the "Kerouac Quarterly" his painting that Jack had given
him personally
what I called "Beatnik Jesus" was on the cover. He was an
educator that
taught English, Irish and American Literature as well as
History, Writing
and Anthropology courses. Jay held his Ph.D. in Irish
Literature and
held his Masters degree in English Literature. He was an
author who had
written two books about early Lowell "The Bend in the River"
and "Life
along the Merrimack" he had also completed a book of photos of
Lowell and one of
Dracut and was working on a second book of Lowell photos.
His first Lowell
photo book had a wonderful picture of Jack Kerouac at an
early age
performing in a play. Jay was also an archeologist and had
completed several
archaeological excavations in Newfoundland, Ireland and
along the banks
of the Merrimack River. Jay was a very close friend of mine
who loved Jack
Kerouac and Lowell. This passage appeared in his first book.
If at night a man
goes out to the woods surrounding Galloway, and stands on
a hill, he can
see it all there before him in broad panorama: the river
coursing slowly
in an arc, the mills with their long rows of windows all
aglow, the
factory stacks rising higher than the church steeples. But he
knows that this
is not the true Galloway. Something in the invisible
brooding
landscape surrounding the town, something in the bright stars
nodding close to
a hillside where the old cemetery sleeps, something in the
soft swishing
treeleaves over the fields and stone walls tells him a
different story.
Jack Kerouac- The
Town and the City
Here's one for
you Jay, I'm going to miss you.
Ever see a tired
ba by
Cryin to sleep
in its mother's arms
Wailin all night
long
while the locamotive
Wails on back
A cry for a cry
In the smoke and
the lamp
Of the hard ass
night
That's how I
fee-
eel---
That's how
I fee---eel!
That's how
I feel---
What a deal!
Yes I'm goin ho
o
ome
Jack Kerouac-
Book of Blues-38th Chorus
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 21:08:02 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat and Marriage
In-Reply-To: <970525133225_453294080@emout12.mail.aol.com>
from "Jerry Cimino"
at May 25, 97 01:32:25 pm
Jerry Cimino
wrote:
> My wife
couldn't stand the beats either when we first got married. I think
> it's got to
do with that "he's gonna run off and sow his wild oats leaving me
> stuck at
home alone" female thing. Can't
imagine why any woman would think
> that about
people like Neal Cassady?
>
> Now she's
involved in a business where she's talking beat everyday. She
> really
focused in on the women writers, Hettie Jones, Joyce Johnson, Diane
> DiPrima,
Carolyn etc and it turned her around.
She especially enjoyed the
> new Women
& the BG recently released.
Mine is coming
around bit by bit too. She really likes
listening
to "Kicks
Joy Darkness" (that new Rykodisk CD) for instance, whereas
I was
lukewarm. But that's just because Patti
Smith is on it, I
think ...
------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock album)
###################################
"Tie yourself to a tree with
roots"
-- Bob Dylan
-----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 21:33:36 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Memory Babe Archive
At 06:08 PM
5/25/97 EDT, you wrote:
>Gerry, how
many of the 300 people you interviewed do you still have addresses f
>or? Why not write a form letter and try to get
their permission to open their
>letters and
tapes now? Maybe all of us at Beat-l
could help you contact people
> who are hard
to find? We maight not locate everyone
but we sure could make a
>dent and open
up a huge chunk of the archive. Seems to
me to be a better alter
>native than
another law suit.
>
>
Bill, May 25, 1997
What you suggest is a lot easier said
than done. A large no. of the
people (after 20
years) are no longer where they were when I interviewed
them. Of the 100 who are dead, I know the
whereabouts of the heirs of only
a handful.
Even with those that remain, if I get a
letter to them, I can
guarantee you that
50% would not answer. This is just
standard with any
mailing. A lot of people won't sign their name to
anything, even if they
gave me an
interview with full cooperation 20 years ago.
What you must understand is that at any
other library, these tapes
would be
listenable to, as they are right now.
There is also the matter that Lowell is
refusing to duplicate the
tapes, to put
them on fresh tape stock, and of course they won't digitalize
them. So the tapes, if kept at Lowell, will be
deteriorated too badly to
even listen to in
another five to fifteen years (some tapes will last
longer, some are
almost gone already).
Then there is the matter of the 2,000
xeroxed Kerouac letters, which
also would be
fully available at any other library.
Bancroft, Texas, etc.,
show Kerouac's
letters every day to scholars without Sampas's permission,
despite his
attempts at interference.
And U Mass, Lowell, itself, made the
MEMORY BABE archive fully
available to
scholars till 1995, when Mr. Sampas brought his complaint to them.
There is the further concern of
materials disappearing every year
from the MEMORY
BABE archive.
In light of all that, I don't see that
I have any choice but a lawsuit.
If you have further thoughts, let me
know.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 21:35:47 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Lies, Money, and VIdeotape
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.PTX.3.91.970524203852.6190A-100000@odin.cc.pdx.edu> from
"Steve Smith a.k.a. Whiskey
Wordsmith" at May 24, 97 08:58:31 pm
Steve Smith
wrote:
> levi and
friends: "start going with the flow"???? bullshit. that's the
> rap weasels
the world over use. it's a cop-out. it's the kind of thing
> that's said
when people are sitting on the lawn, way far out there away
> from passion
and the "real" world, if you will. there is no question that i
Hah, as if it
were that easy to be away from passion and the real
world. Show me the way to free myself of passion and
the real world ...
That's why I do
yoga -- if only I could succeed ...
> zero in on
nicosia as the "bad" guy. levi, you say some very wise things
> a lot of the
time--and you have a boffo web site--but quit the whining
> about
nicosia. if you hate the back and forth
poison re: the estate
Thanks for the
compliments, and okay, whatever.
> battle, why
not get on anstee and chaput, too??? the couple of times i've
> read posts
reZ: the estate thing, you've been on nicosia's case. perhaps
> i am being a
bit simplistic here, but ....
Nicosia has an
awesome reputation as a world-class scholar to uphold.
Obviously, I hold
him to higher standards. That's the way
*I* show
my respect. If I'm being too harsh, well, he said he was
here to
answer questions,
so I asked some!
> anything he
wants. if we can think lisa rabey's rap on cocksucking is
> okay for the
list, why whip out the cattleprods when nicosia et al go
> back and
forth on the estate thing?
Cause it was
funny! Hey, if some of you were really
enjoying this
battle, sorry for
the interruption. I didn't realize it
was
such a thrilling
match. I remember an old line in a
National
Lampoon article
in the 70's, after David Bowie and Lou Reed were
photographed
fist-fighting in a nightclub -- the writer of this
article claimed
that he was there, and said that despite reports
of the fight
being like Ali-vs.-Frazier, it was more like
watching
"two old ladies patting out fires on each other's
bellies". For whatever that image is worth ...
I'm outta here
for the night ... happy Memorial Day
everybody.
------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock album)
###################################
"Tie yourself to a tree with
roots"
-- Bob Dylan
-----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 21:50:27 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Who was that guy?
In-Reply-To: <3385FBFD.B6F115E4@scsn.net> from
"R. Bentz Kirby" at May 23,
97 04:20:13 pm
Bentz wrote (a
few days ago):
> Who was the
guy who did a comic strip/book, Never Eat Anything Bigger
> Than Your
Head?
B. Kliban. Famous for drawing cartoons of cats. Died a few years
ago. Not sure if Beat or not, probably so.
------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock album)
###################################
"Tie yourself to a tree with
roots"
-- Bob Dylan
-----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 00:51:22 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: Memory Babe Archive
Gerry:
If the letters
etc of Jack's were mailed, wouldn't the person who
received the
letters have control of them. Even
though I am a lawyer, I
am a little
confused by all of this and would like to get it straight.
If the letters
were mailed, and then given to you and then to the
library, it seems
to me that Sampas would have nothing to say about any
of this at
all. And, does anyone out there know if
and how letters are
covered by
copyright. What gets them out of the
control of someone and
into the right of
fair use.
Just curious.
Peace,
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
> At 06:08 PM
5/25/97 EDT, you wrote:
> >Gerry,
how many of the 300 people you interviewed do you still have
> addresses f
> >or? Why not write a form letter and try to get
their permission to
> open their
> >letters
and tapes now? Maybe all of us at Beat-l
could help you
> contact
people
> > who are
hard to find? We maight not locate
everyone but we sure
> could make a
> >dent and
open up a huge chunk of the archive.
Seems to me to be a
> better alter
> >native
than another law suit.
> >
> >
> Bill, May 25, 1997
>
> What you suggest is a lot easier said
than done. A large no.
> of the
> people
(after 20 years) are no longer where they were when I
> interviewed
> them. Of the 100 who are dead, I know the
whereabouts of the heirs of
> only
> a handful.
> Even with those that remain, if I get
a letter to them, I can
> guarantee
you that 50% would not answer. This is
just standard with
> any
>
mailing. A lot of people won't sign
their name to anything, even if
> they
> gave me an
interview with full cooperation 20 years ago.
> What you must understand is that at
any other library, these
> tapes
> would be
listenable to, as they are right now.
> There is also the matter that Lowell
is refusing to duplicate
> the
> tapes, to
put them on fresh tape stock, and of course they won't
> digitalize
> them. So the tapes, if kept at Lowell, will be
deteriorated too badly
> to
> even listen
to in another five to fifteen years (some tapes will last
> longer, some
are almost gone already).
> Then there is the matter of the 2,000
xeroxed Kerouac letters,
> which
> also would
be fully available at any other library.
Bancroft, Texas,
> etc.,
> show
Kerouac's letters every day to scholars without Sampas's
> permission,
> despite his
attempts at interference.
> And U Mass, Lowell, itself, made the
MEMORY BABE archive fully
>
> available to
scholars till 1995, when Mr. Sampas brought his complaint
> to them.
> There is the further concern of
materials disappearing every
> year
> from the
MEMORY BABE archive.
> In light of all that, I don't see that
I have any choice but a
> lawsuit.
> If you have further thoughts, let me
know.
> Best always, Gerry Nicosia
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 22:06:39 -0700
Reply-To: david@cyberwarecom.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David McClusky
<david@CYBERWARECOM.COM>
Organization:
CyberWare Communications (http://www.cyberwarecom.com)
Subject: Beat Generation
Hello everyone!
I am new to this
group (and the Beat Generation) and I hope to get a
little more educated
on the subject.
Right now, I am
working on a school essay on the Beat Generation and the
counter-culture
movement of the '50s. Specifically, I am
exploring the
following
questions-- What were the specific causes of this movement?
How can "On
the Road" be seen as a critique of 1950s American society?
Does this
critique have any validity?
To anyone that
can help with these questions-- thanks alot!
David McClusky
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 01:14:31 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Jay Pendergast
Jay was a
historian in every way. Jay was a reader of Joyce. Jay was a
drinking buddy of
Jack's. Jay supported and enthused my idea of a "Kerouac
Quarterly."
I remember sitting with Jay sipping a beautiful blend of whiskey
as we discussed
literature and art as the fires burned in his warm, cozy
house and the
Merrimac River seeping in December in his backyard bobbing
with mallards.
Jay told me that Kerouac had him play "Moon River about
thirty
times" at Nicky's on the jukebox. Jay was the embodiment of what I
emulate to be...a
reader, learner, writer, educator, and sincere friend. I
will miss him
tremendously. On Friday...May 23rd he was happy that my first
issue of the
Kerouac Quarterly was successful and that he wanted to
contribute more.
He has contributed in more ways than one. His spirit, his
vigor, his
sincere interest in what I was doing saw me through the
completion of my
first publication.....your friend and fellow Lowellian,
Paul....
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 21:13:29 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
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From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Tony's Story and Gerry's
May 25, 1997
Antoine Maloney
writes:
"I can only imagine the kind of
stories your Dad had to tell. Did
he ever talk
about whether his Italianess (word?) was recognized and what
kinds of
reactions he got? ...Was all your father's traveling on the road or
did he ride the
rails as well? Was he going to
California to work or just
to go?"
Dear Antoine:
My father left Chicago at age 17
because he wanted to be like Jack
London. He mostly hitchhiked, rode the rails only a
little, mostly because
he didn't like
the danger of it (Kerouac was afraid of train wheels too,
you'll recall),
and later took a tramp steamer from San Francisco to Los
Angeles--after
cutting up to Spokane, Washington, to pick apples, where he
hung out with Sad
Slim Smith who owned Sad Slim Smith's Super Service
Station, Spokane
(true story).
Ironically, he made this trip with his
fast-talking, womanizing
buddy (sound
familiar?), another Italian from Chicago named Steve Ferrara.
Eventually the magnet of home pulled
him back to Illinois, and he
returned to his
widowed mother (sound even more familiar?).
As for his being and speaking Italian,
it served him well in North
Beach, San
Francisco, which in 1927 was just an Italian fishermen's village
at the northern
tip of San Francisco. It gives me great
satisfaction to
think of my dad,
a young man of 17, walking Grant Avenue in North Beach 20
years before
Kerouac got there. Of course in those
days there were no Beat
coffeehouses, no
"finger-poppin' daddies" (a la Lord Buckley), just real
Italian bars and
cafes and spaghetti houses.
He left me a couple of photo albums filled
with snapshots from those
days in San
Francisco, North Beach, the Barbary coast, and the sand dunes of
the Sunset
District, where he and his friend boarded in the house of a widow
named Mrs.
Miller.
My favorite story of his from those times was
how, when he first got
to San Francisco,
he was almost broke and desperately needed work. He
applied for a
busboy job at the States Cafe, a very popular restaurant
downtown. It had 48 booths, each one named for a state
of the union. He
had pulled his
old trick from Chicago, of tearing up the "Help Wanted" sign
before going
inside, but they told him that he could only work there if he
owned an
all-white busboy's uniform. Knowing he
couldn't afford to buy one,
he was about to
leave down-hearted, when a little Chinese guy, about my
dad's height and
weight, walked up and made him an offer.
The Chinese guy said he an extra
busboy's uniform. It was dirty
now, but if my
dad would have it cleaned and starched, he could wear it till
he earned enough
money to buy his own.
And that was how my dad got his first
job in San Francisco. They
paid him thirty
silver dollars a month, and at the end of the month he
bought his own
uniform and returned the Chinese guy's uniform cleaned and
starched. And they remained good friends for the rest
of his stay in San
Francisco.
All of which has touched me in a
special way, since in 1995, long
after my dad's
death, I went to An Hui Province in China to adopt an orphan
girl named Wu
Ji. Considering the strange karmic
connections in this world,
I sometimes
wonder if maybe Wu Ji is a distant relative of that Chinese
busboy who helped
my dad.
By the way, you always end with a quote
from Utah Phillips. He's a
buddy of mine (he
performed at the big benefit concert for Jan Kerouac in
1995), and we
both had the same mentor: a one-armed Spanish Civil War
veteran from
Chicago named Eddy Balchowsky, who played the meanest one-armed
piano you've ever
heard. Utah wrote a great song about
him, after hearing
Eddy play
Beethoven's MOONLIGHT SONATA one-handed.
The song starts: "One
Hand on the
Keyboard, and Moonlight Fills the Room...."
All for now. Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 22:19:56 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
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From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: a calm request
..., it has
nothing to do with
>his
archieves, its a damn pissing contest/whose got the bigger balls and
>the rest of
the nonsense. Its pure bullshit. Get off your ego trip and
>realize THAT truth.
>
>
>Lisa M. Rabey
>Internet and
Computer Consultant
>San
Francisco, California
>http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
>**************************************
>General
man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
>
Dear Lisa, May 25, 1997
I am here on the Beat-List only because
of the need to preserve Jack
Kerouac's
archives. It has turned into a pissing
contest because that is
what Mr. Chaput
and Mr. Anstee wanted it to become. They
have effectively
killed the
discussion of what Sampas is doing with the archives and why, if
he really intends
to put them into a library, he has not signed even a
statement of
intention in 6 years. They don't want me
talking about things
like that, so
they call me names and accuse me of various crimes, and then I
answer them back,
etc. etc.
Well here's my deal, Lisa, I'll just
quite answering their bullshit
charges, and just
keep posting the truth as I see it.
Maybe some day
someone from
"the other side" will appear to argue this thing out
rationally, and
give us some hard facts about what Mr. Sampas is doing and
plans to
do--rather than just calling me names and saying what a bad person
I am.
By the way, Paul Maher's list from the
NY Public Library shows that
they do not own
all the versions of even one Kerouac book (published or
unpublished). A scholar who analyzes a work needs
everything from the first
notes thru first
second and third drafts, and then the galleys.
Kerouac
typed several
versions of every published book. The NY
Public has acquired
only early
notebook drafts of some individual books, and they have not even
one complete
version of Kerouac's seven most important books: ON THE ROAD,
THE DHARMA BUMS,
DR. SAX, VISIONS OF GERARD, VISIONS OF CODY, VANITY OF
DULUOZ, and
DESOLATION ANGELS.
This is what we should be talking
about.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 22:24:56 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: a calm request
Dear Lisa, May 25, 1997
Excuse me, make that EIGHT of KEROUAC'S
MOST IMPORTANT BOOKS that
the New York
Public Library has NOT EVEN ONE COMPLETE DRAFT OF:
I forgot to add: they don't have a
scrap of THE SUBTERRANEANS either.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 05:50:03 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: meesters chaput & nicosia
In-Reply-To:
<199705260413.VAA25745@norway.it.earthlink.net>
really
appreciated yr memories shared. .
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 12:02:46 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Frank O'Hara, a poetry.
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.96.970525141314.617A-100000@alfred.uib.no>
"Why I Am Not A Painter" by Frank O'Hara
I am not a painter, I am a poet.
Why? I think I would rather be
a painter, but I am not. Well,
for instance, Mike Goldberg
is starting a painting. i drop
in
"Sit down and have a ddrink"
he
says. I drink; we drink. I look
up. "You have SARDINES in it"
"Yes, it needed sometime
there"
"Oh." I go and days go by
and I drop in again. The painting
is going on, and I go, and the
days
go by, I drop in. The painting is
finished. "Where's SARDINES?"
All that's left is just
letters, "It was too much",
Mike says.
But me? One day I am thinking of
a color: orange. I write a line
about orange. Pretty soon it is a
whole page of words, not lines.
Then another page. There should
be
so much more, not of orange, of
words, of how terrible orange is
and life. Days go by. It is even
in
prose, I am a real poet. My poem
is finished and I haven't
mentioned
orange yet. It's twelve poems, I
call
it ORANGES. And one day in a
gallery
I see Mike's painting, called
SARDINES.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 05:33:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Beat and Marriage
Levi Asher wrote:
>
> Jerry Cimino
wrote:
> > My wife
couldn't stand the beats either when we first got married. I think
> > it's
got to do with that "he's gonna run off and sow his wild oats leaving
me
> > stuck
at home alone" female thing. Can't
imagine why any woman would think
> > that
about people like Neal Cassady?
> >
> > Now
she's involved in a business where she's talking beat everyday. She
> > really
focused in on the women writers, Hettie Jones, Joyce Johnson, Diane
> >
DiPrima, Carolyn etc and it turned her around.
She especially enjoyed the
> > new
Women & the BG recently released.
>
> Mine is
coming around bit by bit too. She really
likes listening
> to
"Kicks Joy Darkness" (that new Rykodisk CD) for instance, whereas
> I was
lukewarm. But that's just because Patti
Smith is on it, I
> think ...
>
>
------------------------------------------------------
> Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
>
> Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
> (the beat literature web site)
>
> Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
> (my fantasy folk-rock album)
>
> ###################################
>
> "Tie yourself to a tree with
roots"
> -- Bob Dylan
>
-----------------------------------------------------
Is Star Treak
Beat?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 05:37:55 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Lies, Money, and VIdeotape
Levi Asher wrote:
>
> Steve Smith
wrote:
> > levi
and friends: "start going with the flow"???? bullshit. that's the
> > rap
weasels the world over use. it's a cop-out. it's the kind of thing
> > that's
said when people are sitting on the lawn, way far out there away
> > from
passion and the "real" world, if you will. there is no question that
i
>
> Hah, as if
it were that easy to be away from passion and the real
> world. Show me the way to free myself of passion and
the real world ...
> That's why I
do yoga -- if only I could succeed ...
>
Moving to Kansas
is a decent attempt too!
Hope everyone
Remembers the right things on Memorial Day.
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 06:49:22 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: BeatRyder@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Lowell author-Jay Pendergast
In a message
dated 97-05-26 00:01:30 EDT, you write:
> May 25,1997
> Lowell author and friend of Jack Kerouac, Jay
Pendergast died unexpectedly
> this afternoon. Jay had just written a story
about Jack in Paul Maher's
> premiere issue of the "Kerouac
Quarterly" his painting that Jack had given
> him personally what I called "Beatnik
Jesus" was on the cover. He was an
> educator that taught English, Irish and
American Literature as well as
> History, Writing and Anthropology courses.
This is truly sad
news, I took Jay's Speech Course last summer, and it had to
be one
of my best
classes of all time. We would listen Jay
for whole class
sessions, telling
us about his time
in Ireland, doing archaeological digs in the Merrimack
area, the
many famous
people he has encountered in his amazing life - I remember
wanting to
rush out into my
backyard and dig for bones! He was one
of the most
fascinating
people i've ever
met. Probably the greatest
storyteller. I'll always
remember, as long
as I live, how he
encouraged me to write - enthusiastically explaining how
great it is,
just to write a
book and have it published, and see people paying money to
read your
words - getting
those small checks from the publisher, etc.
In fact, I
bought Jay's
book, "The
Bend in the River" as a gift for my dad for father's day. Jay
was truly an
amazing man, and I'm very glad to have had the opportunity to
know him.
Jeff
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 07:51:16 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Jerry Cimino's posts
Dear Beat List:
I just signed on
to this list a few days ago, but it seems like a year
ago. The range of emotions has soared and dipped
me like I am the
finest of fighter
jet plane on an evasive maneuver in the mountains. I
have pulled from
my shelf books that have lain dormant for years and
found within them
joy and tears that I thought had long since left me.
To find that I am
still in touch with them cuts both ways like a knife.
I hope that
Ferlinghetti will be in the store to have coffee with me and
I will bask in
the glow of a fire lit in me by Homer and fed by the
Legends of King
Authur, the story of Ivanhoe (sp), Jason and the search
for the Fleece,
the story of Jesus, Catch 22, Ferlinghetti, Corso,
Thomas Wolfe,
Jack Kerouac, Gerry Nicosia, Allen Ginsburg, Bob Dylan,
Thoreau, Van
Morrison, etc. etc. etc. While I
admired Ann's biography
of Kerouac and
read it first, I wonder how any person can say that
Nicosia has
written the best, or at least one of the two best
biographies of
Kerouac.
I would say that
it is the best, but will admit that others might prefer
Charter's because
it is more flattering, but to me Memory Babe has the
most facts and
the most Love in it. Regardless, I am
honored to be a
member of a list
with Gerry Nicosia. I have also seen
messages going
back and forth
between Levi Asher and Gerry. I have
looked at Levi's
site and find it
to be a great web site. One of the
best. But, Levi
has yet to answer
Gerry's direct questions. Why is that?
I have just read
the first in a series of posts by Jerry Cimino about
the list and
Gerry. I tend to agree. When I first signed on I asked
several questions
that have gone unanswered. One of those
troubles me
greatly.
1. In an email response to Gerry, someone
asked an open question that
to me said in
paraphrased terms:
What about Gerry
Nicosia, isn't he a thief because he has sold
photocopies of
Kerouac's letters for profit?
I responded to
the list and to the poster, whose id I have forgotten,
what letters,
where, to whom and how much. I have not
heard, nor has
this list heard
yet what letters to whom and how much.
If one is not
willing to stand behind such an accusation, or if one
lacks the facts
to back it up, one should not accuse another, especially
a writer of the
integrity of Nicosia of this behavior.
2. There also was a statement by someone to
this lists claiming that
Sampas has not
sold off piece meal portions of Kerouac's works and
artifacts. Does anyone actually know what Sampas has
done. I asked the
question and all
I received was a chastisement that I should "do my
homework" or
some such and stating that I needed to spell Sampas' name
right. But have I received an answer to the
question. Who knows what
Sampas has done
and what he has sold? No, I have not
seen any such
information
forthcoming.
In short, why
does Gerry Nicosia post facts and the others respond with
accusations and
no facts. I am down with Cimino's
post. I am off to
take my children
to school, and will respond further in a few minutes
with other points
about what I have seen.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 08:47:25 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Kerouac's baseball league
Just a thought,
but on reading Levi Asher's page on Jack, was he the
sole member of
the first fantasy baseball league?
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 08:53:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Star Trek is not beat
David,
Star Trek is not
beat. It is an extension of
society. It is more of a
world vision in
which Orwell and others are wrong and big brother turns
out to be nice guy after all.
Star Wars comes
closer to beat, but at best it was maybe Hip or even
Hep.
To me, Space
Balls (Mel Brooks?) was beat! Or, that
Outer Limitsor
Twilight Zone
where the people got on the space ship and the man then
figures out that
the book th aliens brought is a Cook Book.
That is
hip. And maybe just maybe Beat and space would be
say, The Day the
Earth Stood
Still.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 08:55:09 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: correction
I said in my
addled brain, but not in the message and hereby correct it
to state:
I wonder how any
person can say that Nicosia has NOT written the best,
or at least one
of the two best biographies of Kerouac.
The omission of
three letters can affect the meaning.
I believe Gerry's
is the best, because it is full of love and
tenderness, but
does not avoid any difficult issues.
Others will see
Ann's as the best
I am sure. But, anyone else is merely a
pretender and
does not approach
those two.
So, does Ms
Charters post here? If not, does anyone
know her? Invite
her to join the
list. I get jazzed thinking about
Charters and Nicosia
debating the
beats and Kerouac. But, remember Nicosia
had the courage
to come here and
is a blessing to us out of a Gone World.
I remember years
ago a law professor speaking somewhat contemptuously of
his colleagues
who did not publish. I thought he was
just jealous
because they had
tenure and did not publish much (he had tenure too, but
worked much
harder than they did). I asked him why
and he said that if
you are not
willing to put your ideas into the public arena and have
them ripped to
shreds by your colleagues, then you are intelletually
dishonest and are
a coward as that is the way you learn.
Now, I am not
saying that Ann Charters or John Sampas has to post their
ideas here. What I am saying is that, regardless of the
rest of it all,
Nicosia is a man
of courage and conviction. He may be
looney as a nut
cake, fruit cake
or whatever that device is, but he puts his ideas forth
and allows you do
dissect him. And from my experience on
the net and
newsgroups, you
will be dissected by idiots and genius.
He has cast
pearls, it is up
to the list to ensure that he did not cast them before
swine.
He is
courageous. I have discouraged him
because:
1. He can't argue with people who do not state
facts.
2. If he has been slandered, then it is best
to leave it to the
lawyers. (Hey, I got a plug for me in here too!!! ;-))
3. It must be very distracting to him to have
to deal with bs, and he
needs to be about
his life's work.
4. I would rather not see him expose his soul
on public, as I don't
know who this
public is.
But, even though
his obvious anger makes me feel that he is wasting his
effort on those
who do not deserve it, I admire his candor and
willingness. Are those who speak less than well up to the
task to be so
honest and to
expose themselves to the same criticism, are they willing
to be dissected
in such detail? Where are their facts?
I for one count
us to be very rich for Gerry's presence here, would
welcome Ann
aboard if she would join and say, if you are unwilling to
back up an attack
on Gerry or a defense of Sampas without facts, then
keep it to
yourself because Nicosia has stated facts.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 08:26:59 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Jerry Cimino's posts
RBK,
We're not always
the best hosts when it comes to newcomers.
This thread
is not the only
example of when that has happened. The
emotional level
though may
explain why our hosting is particularly poor.
There is a range
of emotions involved in this thread - not only those
concerning a
hotly contested legal argument being discussed in a
non-legal
environment - but also the emotions of grief involved in close
friendships on
both sides of what has politely been referred to as a
"feud"
and at times compared to a "war".
>
> I just signed
on to this list a few days ago, but it seems like a year
> ago. The range of emotions has soared and dipped
me like I am the
> finest of
fighter jet plane on an evasive maneuver in the mountains. I
> have pulled
from my shelf books that have lain dormant for years and
> found within
them joy and tears that I thought had long since left me.
> To find that
I am still in touch with them cuts both ways like a knife.
> I hope that
Ferlinghetti will be in the store to have coffee with me and
> I will bask
in the glow of a fire lit in me by Homer and fed by the
> Legends of
King Authur, the story of Ivanhoe (sp), Jason and the search
> for the
Fleece, the story of Jesus, Catch 22, Ferlinghetti, Corso,
> Thomas
Wolfe, Jack Kerouac, Gerry Nicosia, Allen Ginsburg, Bob Dylan,
> Thoreau, Van
Morrison, etc. etc. etc.
It seems to me
that these remembrances are wonderful feelings and
connections and
fairly appropriate to a Memorial Day Celebration of
Beat-ism. I find myself as a fairly newcomer to both
the scene, the
list, and the
literature - manically trying to read more and more and
more to get a
better sense of the IT that runs through all of these
words. But it is a smooth mania for me and one that
I can enjoy quite
well.
While I admired
Ann's biography
> of Kerouac
and read it first, I wonder how any person can say that
> Nicosia has
written the best, or at least one of the two best
> biographies
of Kerouac.
I think they are
both wonderful. I'm reading them both
right now along
with Dharma Lion
about Ginsberg. Charters' is a much more
empathetic
style and
Nicosia's a more detached one. The two
in combination is
something of a
symphony for me. I don't know why all
the ratings need
be done at
all. The books say the same thing almost
only they say
completely
different things at the same time. They
are both wonderful
tributes to
Kerouac. As was McNally's which was a
different style
altogether almost
intimate anthropological in nature. I'm
looking
forward to others
that have been mentioned as well.
>
> I would say
that it is the best, but will admit that others might prefer
> Charter's
because it is more flattering, but to me Memory Babe has the
> most facts
and the most Love in it. Regardless, I
am honored to be a
> member of a
list with Gerry Nicosia.
He is a wonderful
resource. When he has time to discuss
matters
off-estate, i
find his insights beautiful to read. I
can't wait for the
Vietnam Vets
book. I'm certain that he will tell that
story and its
many plots with
incredible technique.
All that said, i
have to admit that I'm somewhat tired of the estate
discussion. It seems an important thread but not
incredibly significant
to me. None of the libraries under consideration are
ones I will ever
be near - i
doubt. I doubt that I will ever return
to the "scholarly
arena". I respect the desire of scholars to desire an
archive like the
one suggested for
the NYPL, but it doesn't seem to be the only audience
for Kerowhackos
around this beautiful land.
I have also seen
messages going
> back and
forth between Levi Asher and Gerry. I
have looked at Levi's
> site and
find it to be a great web site. One of
the best. But, Levi
> has yet to
answer Gerry's direct questions. Why is
that?
Have to ask
Levi. I thought that some of the
questions were answered
but the answers
were unacceptable to Gerry and so it went ....
>
> I have just
read the first in a series of posts by Jerry Cimino about
> the list and
Gerry. I tend to agree. When I first signed on I asked
> several
questions that have gone unanswered. One
of those troubles me
> greatly.
>
> 1. In an email response to Gerry, someone
asked an open question that
> to me said
in paraphrased terms:
>
> What about
Gerry Nicosia, isn't he a thief because he has sold
> photocopies
of Kerouac's letters for profit?
as i recall, the
photocopy letter originally was a bad joke in the
middle of a
post. that's how i read it at
least. it has since blew up.
>
> I responded
to the list and to the poster, whose id I have forgotten,
> what
letters, where, to whom and how much. I
have not heard, nor has
> this list
heard yet what letters to whom and how much.
it would be
letters in the Lowell archive as far as I can tell. letters
associated with
the Memory Babe biography. i think that
the price
sounded
reasonable considering Gerry's expenses in working on the book.
>
> If one is
not willing to stand behind such an accusation, or if one
> lacks the
facts to back it up, one should not accuse another, especially
> a writer of
the integrity of Nicosia of this behavior.
i think it was a
poor joke that wouldn't die. but that's
my failing
memory.
>
> 2. There also was a statement by someone to
this lists claiming that
> Sampas has
not sold off piece meal portions of Kerouac's works and
>
artifacts. Does anyone actually know
what Sampas has done. I asked the
> question and
all I received was a chastisement that I should "do my
>
homework" or some such and stating that I needed to spell Sampas' name
> right. But have I received an answer to the
question. Who knows what
> Sampas has
done and what he has sold? No, I have
not seen any such
> information
forthcoming.
I've learned to
have some difficulty with this part of the whole feud.
It seems that
until the courts determine otherwise - which is uncertain
at best - that
this stuff is Sampas' private property.
I don't think
he's accountable
to any of us concerning what he does with his
property. He could have a huge garage sale - like the
Kennedy children
- but it doesn't
sound as though that has happened.
>
> In short,
why does Gerry Nicosia post facts and the others respond with
> accusations
and no facts. I am down with Cimino's
post. I am off to
> take my
children to school, and will respond further in a few minutes
> with other
points about what I have seen.
My impression is
that Gerry while an excellent scholar and writer is not
willing to see
any grain of truth in anything in this besides his
viewpoint. That is merely an impression. My impression is that people
don't post
anything worthwhile because, it won't be good enough for
Gerry if they
do. And when they do, there is often at
least innuendo
that John Sampas
is pulling their strings like puppets.
The dialogue in
this thread has broken down from both sides and every
angle
in-between. My impression is it is a
case of emotionally charged
true believers
involved in a fairly messy and intricate legal action and
that the
animosity will probably not end after the legal action or
actions are
decided. It will be one for the literary
historians to
write about some
day down the road.
I hope that i've
filled in some of the details. I am very
hesitant to
do so for fear of
being attacked for having provided misinformation.
These are what
I've gathered from the thread, my impressions of the
thread,
information as I recall it now, and i don't know that they
necessarily have
any correspondence with the truth (whatever that is)...
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 08:31:30 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: correction
R. Bentz Kirby
wrote:
>
> I said in my
addled brain, but not in the message and hereby correct it
> to state:
>
> I wonder how
any person can say that Nicosia has NOT written the best,
> or at least
one of the two best biographies of Kerouac.
>
> The omission
of three letters can affect the meaning.
>
As one of the
most addled brains on the planet it was easy to read past
the addled-typo
and understand the context. i really
don't think anyone
suggests Nicosia
is not an incredible scholar. When I
read his
biography I say
"Wow - how'd he find that out - in my head a lot". In
the others, I say
different words inside my head. The
symphony of
reading multiple
biographies comes out with this chorus in my head.
Wow-Jack/Wow-Jack/beeeeeeeatttttttitiffffffic
terrific WOW - Jack
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 09:33:56 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: Gerry's Dad's story
Gerry,
Thank you for the vivid post describing
your dad's time in San
Francisco. It
sounds like you did what too many of us neglect to do; really
quiz your Dad
about his youth. Free advice to everyone on the list....ask
your mom and Dad
and aunts and uncles and grandparents what their childhood,
adolescence, and
coming of age was like; endlessly rewardimg as we can see!
Was the aside about Lord Buckley a tip
of the hat to my frequently
broadcast
interest in the Lord, or did it just trip off your tongue? Any
evidence of
Buckley intersecting with Kerouac or the others? Charles
Plymell mentioned
remembering Buckley from Los Angeles
...days of the
old Crackerbox
Palace. He was truly a hipster! I've read Kerouac's
description of
seeing slim Gaillard, but have always been curious about any
awareness of Lord
Buckley (especially given the close association with
Charlie Parker)
and Harry 'the Hipster' Gibson ("Who Put the Benzedrine in
Mrs' Murpht's
Ovaltine").
Thanks again. Any idea who Navrotsky is
or if I've spelt his name
correctly? The
quotation as i heard it was attributed to them jointly. It's
a good one. Do
you know Jo Grant? Is he / was he a labor organizer?
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 09:37:46 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rod Anstee <Nastees@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Memory Babe Archive
Gerry, I think
you are on more solid ground with this issue than the other.
There are huge
chunks of your archive that are irreplaceable -- especially
the tape
recordings, which must be preserved at all costs, even if the actual
access/rights
issue isn't sorted out for years to come. Preserve the tapes at
least!
(ASIDE: I can, for example, see that someone
who had granted you an
interview back in
the mid-1970's, might now be a bit surprised/troubled to
discover that the
entire interview was potentially now available in complete
form, either
audio or transcript, to the public -- that is, I can realize
that one of your
interviewees might not have forseen such an eventuality when
they originally
granted the interview as part of helping you with your book.
I say, I can sort
of SEE someone feeling that way, though I imagine most of
the interviewees
don't care either way, and if asked would readily grant
permission. I am
thinking of someone like Helen Weaver, for example, who
might very well
be writing her own memoirs of her time with JK, and therefore
not feel
comfortable -- I pick Helen W. just as an hypothetical example
though, you
understand.)
The original
letters, too, even in 1987 deserved extra special treatment, and
it's appalling to
think that they have somehow been allowed to disappear into
the void. (See,
we can/do agree on some things!)
The xeroxed
letters, on the other hand, present a difficult problem --
entirely aside
from any Sampas angle. In a way I am quite surprised, in
retrospect, that
Martha Mayo agreed to purchase these in the first place,
knowing that many
of them (originals) are the property of other libraries.
Just as an
example, I have in front of me a xerox of part of an 8 April, 1952
letter from JK to
AG. It's a xerox you must have sent to me, and it's covered
with margin notes
in your hand -- interesting, in and of themselves, as
pointers to the
eventual text in MEMORY BABE -- but stamped on one edge are
the following
words:
" THIS IS A PHOTOCOPY OF ORIGINAL
MATERIALS IN THE COLUMBIA
UNIVERSITY
LIBRARIES.
This copy must be returned to Special
Collections (801 Butler
Library) at the
completion of the reader's use."
Whilst it's
arguable, I guess, that you haven't, as yet, completed your use
of this material,
I'm pretty sure this statement on the document was actually
put there to
preclude you (anyone) from subsequently SELLING it, at some
later date, to
another institution --no? It renders your sale of such
material to the
library in Lowell in 1987 somewhat dodgy. I even wonder if
this wasn't one
of the reasons that most other insitutions you apporached
were not
interested? (I assume your archive included this material -- on p.
35 of the list
you sent me years ago, it lists "266 pages of letters of JK to
Allen
Ginsberg"-- and I assume that comparable letters, from other libraries
came with similar
restrictions.)
I guess I'm just
suggesting that, in some respects at least, some of the
content of your
MB archive is rather problematical, legally speaking. Of
course this in no
way excuses any mishandling of the remainder of the
archive, or any
(alleged) Sampas interference in the running of the archive
viv-a-vis
scholarly access.
Just a thought.
CHEERS Rod
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 09:35:14 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: David's post
David:
Thanks for the
post. I have reviewed most of the posts
that I can find
on these issues
and welcome receiving copies of older posts back channel
if anyone saved
them.
On the issue of
selling letters:
>From what you
said, it was a "joke" that got turned around and out of
proportion. I can see that happening and do not take
issue with that.
But again, did
Gerry sell photocopies to Umass at Lowell.
My impression
is that he sold
his work and donated the rest as he had no right to sell
it. If that is wrong, then I may be wrong, but in
light of that
position, if I am
correct noone may claim that Jerry sold Kerouac's
letters for gain. He donated them.
On the archives,
my concern is the lack of availability and deterioation
in the
tapes. That is a valid issue for us if
we are to have free
information about
Kerouac.
I am tired of
draft talk on the Celtic list. This
thread is much
better.
Love you, mean
it.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 09:44:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: David's Impressions
David,
Thanks for your post summarizing your
impressions of the estate
debate. It was
excellent having neutral ground to test my own
recollections/impressions
against.
I'm hoping to get back quickly enough
to the list to encourage Gerry
and the other
comabattants to resist the temptation - great as it might be!
- to reply with
"clarifications". I thinks id would help greatly to have
other
"impressions' posted as well to see if we can't see the middle ground
that I'm sure
exists - the "no man's land?"
Her's hoping!
Thanks again.
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 08:44:14 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Gerry's Dad's story
Antoine Maloney
wrote:
>
> Gerry,
>
> Thank you for the vivid post
describing your dad's time in San
> Francisco.
It sounds like you did what too many of us neglect to do; really
> quiz your
Dad about his youth. Free advice to everyone on the list....ask
> your mom and
Dad and aunts and uncles and grandparents what their childhood,
> adolescence,
and coming of age was like; endlessly rewardimg as we can see!
>
> Was the aside about Lord Buckley a tip of
the hat to my frequently
> broadcast
interest in the Lord, or did it just trip off your tongue? Any
> evidence of
Buckley intersecting with Kerouac or the others? Charles
> Plymell
mentioned remembering Buckley from Los Angeles ...days of the
> old
Crackerbox Palace. He was truly a hipster! I've read Kerouac's
> description
of seeing slim Gaillard, but have always been curious about any
> awareness of
Lord Buckley (especially given the close association with
> Charlie
Parker) and Harry 'the Hipster' Gibson ("Who Put the Benzedrine in
> Mrs'
Murpht's Ovaltine").
>
> Thanks again. Any idea who Navrotsky
is or if I've spelt his name
> correctly?
The quotation as i heard it was attributed to them jointly. It's
> a good one.
Do you know Jo Grant? Is he / was he a labor organizer?
>
> Antoine
> Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
>
> "An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
> -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah
Phillips
I just saw my Dad
Saturday night for the first time in months.
If I'd
read Gerry's
story before that Pop would have probably got a good
quizzing. I know that he used to hitch from Detroit to
Sterling Kansas
and back for
college in the early 1950s. The few
times I asked him
about it years
ago - it brought no stories - just "it's what i had to
do, it was the
only way I could afford to go back and forth." But I've
also heard tell
that my Ma's family in Northeastern Kansas thought my
Dad was too wild
- so I have a feeling that there are stories in there
somewhere to be
dug out ... :) My brother will be up
from Arizona in a
couple weeks and
we'll be at my Dad's for our step-sister's wedding.
Perhaps we can
gang tackle him and tie him up and force the stories out
of him. Or I can tell him that if he doesn't fess up,
I'll start
creating my own
legends which he might not like to well and maybe that
will bring it out
of him. To hear him talk it wasn't that
much
different than
walking down to a dime store or something.
Maybe by the
early 50s that
was true. I really don't know cuz if I
was around in
some former
incarnation, my memory is cloudy.
I loved Gerry's
story too !!!!! Made me think of my Dad
more than Jack
or Gerry's Dad
but sometimes that's the way those stories go.
take care all,
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 08:57:55 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: David's post
R. Bentz Kirby
wrote:
>
> David:
>
> Thanks for
the post. I have reviewed most of the
posts that I can find
> on these
issues and welcome receiving copies of older posts back channel
> if anyone
saved them.
>
> On the issue
of selling letters:
>
> >From
what you said, it was a "joke" that got turned around and out of
>
proportion. I can see that happening and
do not take issue with that.
> But again,
did Gerry sell photocopies to Umass at Lowell.
My impression
> is that he
sold his work and donated the rest as he had no right to sell
> it. If that is wrong, then I may be wrong, but in
light of that
> position, if
I am correct noone may claim that Jerry sold Kerouac's
> letters for
gain. He donated them.
i have no access
to the formal agreements with Lowell U. to know whether
the package was
divided between sale and donations.
while I know little
of this, i could
understand sampas' concerns (a little) for letters
which are to be
published in forthcoming collections.
but once again,
it seems that is
something where all sense of proportion has been lost
and Jack's memory
suffers for it.
>
> On the
archives, my concern is the lack of availability and deterioation
> in the
tapes. That is a valid issue for us if
we are to have free
> information
about Kerouac.
Well it pisses me
off - what to do though? Unless part of
the
sale/donation
agreement required the Library to make these upgrades it
doesn't seem they
can be forced to do so. I've never
thought much of
letter campaigns,
but perhaps a letter campaign on that specific issue
would be
worthwhile.
I also think Bill
Gargan's notion of helping in gaining the permission
slips (somehow
they remind me of high school "hall passes") seems worth
trying.
>
> I am tired
of draft talk on the Celtic list. This
thread is much
> better.
This thread is
full of rancor but that one is full of textbook cases of
delusional
thought. we must pick our poisons
carefully .... )
I'm off to read
another forty or so in Dharma Lion then back to Memory
Babe for around
75-100 pages.
Memorial Day
What do we
remember on a
day
sanctified by the
State
for remembrances?
Do we remember
the soldiers
lost in foreign
wars
and relatives we
never
met?
Certainly, these
are appropriate
remembrances.
But my notions of
remembrance
are more twisted.
I remember the
families
I created in
the Mental
Hospitals
where all were
lonely
and all seemed to
breakdown
at Holiday after
Holiday.
I remember the
friends I've had
for years
who I never
met
in life
but know
deeply
in my
connection
and
identification
with their
words.
I put Skeletons
on the CD
player
and
I
sit back in
my rusty
recliner
and
attempt
to remember
scenes
from life
that seem
so far away
friends
from here
and there
scattered
victims of our
own
insanities
and I
remember
most of all
that
God is Pooh Bear.
David Rhaesa
salina, Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 10:29:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Post on archives
I have not read
this entire post yet by Rod Antsee and can not address
the question
about Columbia University but the post states this:
The xeroxed
letters, on the other hand, present a difficult problem --
entirely aside
from any Sampas angle. In a way I am quite surprised, in
retrospect, that
Martha Mayo agreed to purchase these in the first
place,
knowing that many
of them (originals) are the property of other
libraries.
Just as an
example, I have in front of me a xerox of part of an 8 April,
1952
letter from JK to
AG. It's a xerox you must have sent to me, and it's
covered
with margin notes
in your hand -- interesting, in and of themselves, as
pointers to the
eventual text in MEMORY BABE -- but stamped on one edge
are
the following words:
<snip>
Rod:
I just posted to
the list, or backchanneled some one about this.
It is
my understanding
that these "photocopies" were not "purchased" by
UMASS-Lowell. They were donated because Gerry could not
sell them and
the purchase price
was substantially reduced. So, if I am
correct, we
should stop
categorizing these letters as being purchased.
Gerry:
Can you comment
on my position that the photocopied letters were not
sold and were
donated? Am I correct? If not, please set me straight as
soon as possible.
Now, I will
finish the post before sending and see if I have an idea on
the Columbia
question.
>I even wonder
if this wasn't one of the reasons that most other
insitutions you
apporached
>were not
interested?
Rod:
What is the
factual basis for this statement? I am
informed and believe
that there are
several preeiment universities that would accept Gerry's
archives as is
and open them to the public and preserve the tapes.
Please post the
source of your comments. What
universities have
expressed a lack
of interest in Gerry's archives? What is
the name of
the
librarian? Do you have facts? If there is such a University, has
it or its
librarian had contact with the Sampas family?
Have they been
threatened by
Sampas? I am not willing to accept a
conclusory statement
like this by you
about a great biographer. If you do not
have facts to
back it up, you
should not post things like this that could demean him
and his
work. I am not intending this as a flame,
but I have asked you
and others
repeartedly to give me facts please. And
I will continue to
search for them
in your post.
Rod, you said:
>or any
(alleged) Sampas interference in the running of the archive
>viv-a-vis
scholarly access.
In an article I
have from the Sun, by David Perry it is stated as either
facts or quotes
from Martha Mayo:
I.
"But since a
Connecticut woman called the Morgan Center 18 months ago to
request that the
public not be allowed to hear her interview with
Nicosia, the
tapes have sat two steel file cabinet drawers."
1. Who is the woman and why did she call? What did she say? Does
she have the
legal right to make this request? If she
gave an interview
and knew that it
might be published, there is no reason that Gerry can't
just publish all
of these tapes as is and in toto. Then,
no one can say
a thing about it.
Hey Gerry, what
do you think about publishing all of the tapes.
Call it
Nicosia's
Watergate Tapes? Then it is out there
and no one can say a
thing! Just a thought.
II.
" University
policy requires that taped interviews in its archives must
have the written
permission of the subject, or heirs, to be made
public. This rule also applies to
transcriptions."
Again, if there is
no law that requires this, then change the damn
policy or get the
collection somewhere where this is not the policy.
III.
>From Mayo
"It was my
understanding that permission was given.
It was implicit
that had been
done between the author and the people interviewed. But
people didn't
know it would be placed in a public institution. I never
asked him if it
had been done, and he didn't lie to me or anything. I
just ... believed
it had been done."
The Connecticut
caller -- whom Mayo declined to name --
"told me Gerry
had never gotten
permission to include it," said Mayo, "or that the tape
would be
available to the public ... . That's when we knew we had a
problem."
Mayo said two
persons have since called to close off access to their
interviews. She also declined to name them.
.....
Mayo said there's
little interest in the collection,
......
Because the
Kerouac estate controls the copyright to Kerouac's writing,
visitors to the
Mogan Center may read the letters in the collection and
may make notes
from them, but may not photocopy them without estate
permission. Center director Mayo said Sampas approached
her about two
years ago and
told her of the copyright law.
"You can't
go around copying people's letters without premission," said
Sampas. "I don't want all those letters flying
around. They're all
copyrighted by
the estate."
He's concerned
that giving people free access to Kerouac's papers will
result in them
appearing in "books and things--and that's ripping off
the estate. Anybody who wants a copy of any of those
letters needs my
permission. That's standard procedure.
Now Rod, that is
clear that Sampas has contacted the Lowell Mass library
and said that
nobody may copy what, Jack's letters mailed to third
parties. Does the estate own copyright to that? I don't know, but I
intend to know
real soon and when I have completed my research, I will
say that Sampas
better own the rights to stop people from photocopying
these letters
etc. Else, he may have interfered in
other's rights to
access without
having the right to do so.
And give me a
break here. How can the head of a
collection of a library
negotiate the
purchase of a collection like this and not know if
permission has
been granted to the author. Funny,
Nicosia can still
publish every
word on every tape and yet, I can't hear them because of
the policy of the
Lowell library? Come on, I think we are
being conned
here and I now
intend to find out
Rod,
This article
dated June 10, 1996 is just the library trying to make
Gerry out to be a
bad guy. Nowhere do they cite a law or
anything that
substantiates a
thing she says. And she won't identify
the persons.
Who are
they? Why not id them? And what right of privacy do you have
to an interview
that you gave in hopes that it would be published so all
the world could
see that you knew Jack Kerouac? Again,
this is not
right.
As the bard said
years ago in Hamlet:
There is
something rotten in Denmark.
Again, I do
appreciate the fact that you agree with Gerry on the
maintenace of the
tapes, I believe you yield too easily on the issue of
copyright. But if you are correct then we all should
support the
removal of such
obstacles. If Sampas is wrong, then we
all should tell
him to get out of
others business.
Peace,
Gerry,
In addition to
publishing all the tapes, and they be condensed to cd rom
so that the tapes
can be sold with the book?
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 09:30:29 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Judith Kampfner <judith@WELL.COM>
Subject: From Nick W-W re Letters
Comments: cc:
nweir-w@nwu.edu
Borrowing my
wife's e-mail as I'm not at work this Memorial Day...here's my
understanding re
letters and libraries.
There are two
very different issues at work here. One is copyright, the
other is the
right to read material in a library. It is certainly true in
the US that
copyright exists in letters and that you would need the
permission of
both the sender and the recipient to use the letter in a
book, or to quote
from it. The same would be true of audio interviews.
(this is not the
case in, say, Germany, where we have our own dipute with
the Heidegger
estate - if you think this one is nasty, believe me, you've
seen nothing.
There the sender of the letter alone has copyright).
However, I don't
think that's the real issue here, since we're talking
about access to
reading the letters, not quoting them. Any library has a
right to restrict
access to a valuable archive to bona-fide scholars or
whoever it wants,
and once they have taken possession of an archive I guess
they can make
their own rules. I think the permission business (them
claiming that in
order to look at the letters you need permission clips) is
bogus though. But
I will check next week with the Music Librarian here at
NU who can
confirm this.
Gerry (if I may),
I do think they're yanking your chain about the legality
of selling the
letters to deflect you from your main point, and if I may
say so you do
tend to jump at these distractions a bit easily. Most
libraries would
welcome the oportunity to purchase a collection put
together for
research purposes, and although you don't have copyright in
the pieces
obviously, you have collected them and that in itself is a
bona-fide thing
to sell. In the same way as a writer can claim copyright on
the selection and
editing of a group of articles or essays even if they
don't have
copyright in the actual articles.
I guess in your
sale to UM Lowell you should have had them sign something
about open access
and proper maintenance of the materials, both to stop
them
deteriorating and stop them being stolen. It sounds from what you say
at best very
sloppy and perhaps more suspicious than that - I'm very sorry
about it.
I will check up
with the archive librarians here and report back. I hope
this doesn't
confuse everyone even more.
And, Rinaldo, I
don't think any of that Cage archive is on the web at all -
they're still
working their way through it all. I will check up for you
though.
Nick W-W
Judith Kampfner
Midwest News and
Features
3813 N. Alta
Vista Terrace, Chicago IL 60613
ph 773 296 9590:
fax 773 296 1692
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 10:49:33 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Nick, uh, I mean Judith, uhh nick
Nick,
Thanks for the
comment on the right to use a letter. I
am going to do
some research on
that issue. How does fair use affect
this copyright
rule? If you are correct, it may be that Sampas can
prevent the library
from allowing
copying for commercial reasons. But as
to copying by a
scholar, then,
can that not be allowed under fair use?
Sampas can sue
anyone that uses copyrighted material for commercial use
in violation of
the copyright laws. Publishers will not
do that
anyway. That is not a real concern.
What is a real
concern is who stole materials from Lowell and what has
Lowell done to
get the material back?
Just a thought.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 11:04:16 -0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: west <anwest@UP.NET>
Subject: Re: Bush
>Hillary,
no, Bill yes,
Bentz, you really
consider Bill beat? I always considered him more
not-quite beat.
west
I belong to the
blank generation
and I can take or
leave it each time
-Richard Hell
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 11:29:44 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Peter Milo <cva38@PROLOG.NET>
Organization:
Micron Electronics, Inc.
Subject: Re: hello
Hi Amy
I'm sort of new
on this list but the portable beat reader is a good
source on
kerouac. In their they have the piece he
wrote called "The
essentials of
spontanous prose" or something like that which might be
helpful to you
Peater
(really Peter but
this is a more individual spelling)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 11:32:58 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Tears once again ....
Well, in
something of a remembrance day ritual
i put on Lou
Reed's Magic and Loss
and
screened through
slowly
slowly
slowly
the tribute page
from
the Beat-L
at Literary
Kicks.
Mayonaise Soda in
my
water glass
kept me going
reading these
words
once again
that i hadn't
seen for
many
many months.
i was a babe to
this list
when Allen died.
now the names
connected
with the poems
and many
words of tribute
and Lou
somewhere deep in
the
back of my brain
...
and then i got
to the first
post about
Allen's last
phone call.
the line about
how he always
cared about other
folks feelings
so much
and the tears
streamed
down
from my eyes over
my cheeks
and i could
hear Lou's music
of Eulogy
faintly in the
background...
the air
conditioner
turns off
and the tears
don't.
i slowly scroll
through the
rest of the page
type this note
and am heading
outside
for a camel light
and some
sun.....
david rhaesa
salina kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 10:00:02 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Memory Babe Archive
>The xeroxed
letters, on the other hand, present a difficult problem --
>entirely
aside from any Sampas angle. In a way I am quite surprised, in
>retrospect,
that Martha Mayo agreed to purchase these in the first place,
>knowing that
many of them (originals) are the property of other libraries.
>Just as an
example, I have in front of me a xerox of part of an 8 April, 1952
>letter from
JK to AG. It's a xerox you must have sent to me, and it's covered
>with margin
notes in your hand -- interesting, in and of themselves, as
>pointers to
the eventual text in MEMORY BABE -- but stamped on one edge are
>the following
words:
>
> " THIS IS A PHOTOCOPY OF
ORIGINAL MATERIALS IN THE COLUMBIA
>UNIVERSITY
LIBRARIES.
>
> This copy must be returned to Special
Collections (801 Butler
>Library) at
the completion of the reader's use."
>
>
>Whilst it's
arguable, I guess, that you haven't, as yet, completed your use
>of this
material, I'm pretty sure this statement on the document was actually
>put there to
preclude you (anyone) from subsequently SELLING it, at some
>later date,
to another institution --no? It renders your sale of such
>material to
the library in Lowell in 1987 somewhat dodgy. I even wonder if
>this wasn't
one of the reasons that most other insitutions you apporached
>were not
interested? (I assume your archive included this material -- on p.
>35 of the
list you sent me years ago, it lists "266 pages of letters of JK to
>Allen
Ginsberg"--
Dear Rod, May 26, 1997
Boy, kiddo, you sure are trying to get
back at me for revealing to
everyone on the
Beat-List that you kaffee-klatsched with John Sampas and
bought up
numerous pieces of the Kerouac archive for your own collection.
Let's stop lying here, Rod. I really am getting tired of it from
you guys.
What I sent you was a complete list of
MY RESEARCH MATERIALS. It
was not a list of
what I sold to U Mass, Lowell. NONE OF
THE XEROXES OF
KEROUAC'S LETTERS
TO GINSBERG WERE SOLD TO U MASS, LOWELL.
IT WOULD HAVE
BEEN A VIOLATION
OF MY AGREEMENT WITH COLUMBIA, AND I WAS WELL AWARE OF THAT.
NONE OF THE XEROXES I SOLD TO LOWELL
WERE THE PROPERTY OF OTHER
LIBRARIES. GOT THAT?
(I used "sold" not to mean
"sold" as you would sell peanuts on the
corner, as Chaput
implies, but "sold" meaning they were within the huge body
of the MEMORY
BABE archive, which was transferred en bloc to U Mass, Lowell,
for the sum of
$7,500.)
It is also not true that "most
other institutions I approached were
not
interested." All of them were,
including Bancroft at Berkeley, but at
the time Lowell
had the best offer--not just in terms of money, but in terms
of what APPEARED
TO BE accessibility to Kerouac scholars.
I chose what
seemed the best
university archive for my collection, and yes, money was a
part of the
decision (just as money was a part of the decision for Ginsberg
in placing his
collection at Stanford--you have a bone to pick with him
about that?).
Let's also tell the Beat List folk,
since we're outing everything
here, how you
happened to get a copy of that letter of Kerouac to Ginsberg
which I xeroxed (legally)
from Columbia. You didn't send a private
eye to
sleuth thru my
collection. I voluntarily sent it to you
to HELP YOU WITH A
SCHOLARLY ESSAY
YOU WERE WRITING on the censorship and poor editing of
Kerouac's
SELECTED LETTERS by Ann Charters. It was
in the form of scholarly
assistance--which
I have done for hundreds of other scholars on this planet,
FREE OF CHARGE.
Why don't you guys ever bring up all
the hundreds of hours of my
time I'VE DONATED
TO THE SCHOLARLY COMMUNITY--ALL THE LETTERS AND PHONE
CALLS I'VE
ANSWERED FROM YOUNG PEOPLE AND STUDENTS WITH QUESTIONS, ALL THE
SPEAKING GIGS
I'VE DONE FOR FREE, ETC.--INSTEAD OF ALL THIS SHIT YOU KEEP
POSTING ABOUT HOW
MERCENARY I AM?
Moreover, you and Chaput keep dodging
the main points I've been
making about
Lowell's sudden arbitrary decision to close the archive (after
complaints from
Sampas):
1) Kerouac letters are freely available
to be read, studied, and to
have notes taken
on them at every other major library that holds them.
2) Bancroft, Texas, and many other
libraries have told me that they
would have no
problem allowing access to the taped materials that were made
for use in my
biography. If someone like John Sampas
objected loudly enough
to his particular
tapes being heard, they might remove those particular
tapes from the
collection (out of courtesy) and RETURN THEM TO ME.
Lowell has not offered to return the
complained-of tapes to me,
however.
Moreover, Lowell does not have to worry
about losing its investment.
Several major
libraries have offered to reimburse Lowell for their costs, in
order to get the
collection out of Lowell, but the university also refuses
to sell (divest
itself of) the collection.
I wonder how much fear of John Sampas
has to do with that.
I.e., Lowell will NOT:
1) allow free access to the collection
2) properly care for the tapes and
other materials
3) allow another library to buy them
YOU TELL ME WHAT
IS GOING ON, MR. SMARTY PANTS ANSTEE.
Only this time,
check your facts
before you open your mouth.
Best always,
Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 13:48:34 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: spontaneous sidewalk re-worked.
In-Reply-To: <v03007800afae4406b877@[156.46.45.10]>
thinking about
kerouac
or,
spontaneous
sidewalk
what is it with
me, lately?
i keep buying
books.
i'm poor
but would rather go
hungry
than be hungry
for words
i want to be a
writer.
i read lots of writers
lots of poetry
lots of prose
lots of
writers writing about writing
and critics who write about
them,
until i get to feeling like the quaker oats man
who is pictured on the label
holding another quaker
box
with a little
quaker man, holding,
you know?
i mean, when does
he ever eat the oatmeal?
i throw over my
captors,
selfconsciouness
and fear,
and break free
and up from the
depths of my
inarticulate soul
the voices spoke
to me of kerouac,
and
word sketches
writ down in the moment.
now i stop all
thought,
and, suddenly,
finally !
i am left with IT!
jack 's
spontaneous prose
writ in humble
small pad
full of word sketches
novels
poetry
prose
and
emboldened,
out i go, tiny
pad in pocket
looking avidly
for
the perfect
poetic moment
to capture in
words,
a stupenousllyspontaenously
experience of IT
and so, i go, casting
eyes to sky
and down to
earth
& cement.
i walk quite a
bit,
and then further.
no epiphanies.
my pad begins to
sweat.
i stop.
and then i look
about.
i am standing
in the midst
of a cheery
hop scotch
scrawled in blue
chalk.
i had my note pad
ready
to capture it
all,
a fine lot
of writing
to be done in the moment,
a frenzy of scribbling
of making it new,
until, quite suddenly,
despite lingering winter chill
i stood enveloped
in the warmth of
twilight days
of summer.
mothers' voices
on the breeze
giving last call
for play
with
just
one
more
game
of hop scotch,
marbles, jumprope
kick the can
... (allly ally outs in free.....
voices called out
in my mind)
on a sunlit
afternoon this spring
i stood in
twilight summer haze
feeling once
again
dirty hands and
sticky faces,
bare feet on dewy
grass...
touch
taste
sight
sounds
alive!
i stood before the chalked outlines
scribbling
furiously.
ithen dashed off
to read my pocket
ful of
sketched
impressions,
literary
allusions,
and all things
real with potency.
yes, i feel like
a real poet now.
as i
sit down
excitedly
to transcribe my
notes
and fashion a
pome.
i open my
notebook :
no words at all,
only the sketch
of hopscotch blocks,
blue chalk and
all.
@mc/517/97
revised 5/26/97
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 14:02:28 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Tony's Story and Gerry's
Gerry:
What a great
story. Karma indeed.
Pam Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 14:11:25 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Gerry's reply
I have now read
Gerry's reply. I have a couple of follow
up questions
and comments
here. First, it appears that I was wrong
to assume that
the letters from
Columbia were "donated" to Lowell.
Apparently, they
were not sold
either. They were not sent to Lowell by
Gerry at all!
So, that leads to
more questions for Rod Anstee:
Exactly what is
your point here Rod, Why did you make a post to this
list designed to
imply that Gerry had done something improper.
To
avoid confusion,
you said:
Rod Anstee wrote:
> Gerry, I
think you are on more solid ground with this issue than the
> other.
> There are
huge chunks of your archive that are irreplaceable --
> especially
> the tape
recordings, which must be preserved at all costs, even if the
> actual
>
access/rights issue isn't sorted out for years to come. Preserve the
> tapes at
> least!
>
> (ASIDE: I can, for example, see that someone
who had granted you an
> interview
back in the mid-1970's, might now be a bit
>
surprised/troubled to
> discover
that the entire interview was potentially now available in
> complete
> form, either
audio or transcript, to the public -- that is, I can
> realize
> that one of
your interviewees might not have forseen such an
> eventuality
when
> they
originally granted the interview as part of helping you with your
> book.
> I say, I can
sort of SEE someone feeling that way, though I imagine
> most of
> the
interviewees don't care either way, and if asked would readily
> grant
> permission.
I am thinking of someone like Helen Weaver, for example,
> who
> might very
well be writing her own memoirs of her time with JK, and
> therefore
> not feel
comfortable -- I pick Helen W. just as an hypothetical
> example
> though, you
understand.)
>
> The original
letters, too, even in 1987 deserved extra special
> treatment,
and
> it's
appalling to think that they have somehow been allowed to
> disappear
into
> the void.
(See, we can/do agree on some things!)
>
> The xeroxed
letters, on the other hand, present a difficult problem --
>
> entirely
aside from any Sampas angle. In a way I am quite surprised,
> in
> retrospect,
that Martha Mayo agreed to purchase these in the first
> place,
> knowing that
many of them (originals) are the property of other
> libraries.
> Just as an
example, I have in front of me a xerox of part of an 8
> April, 1952
> letter from
JK to AG. It's a xerox you must have sent to me, and it's
> covered
> with margin
notes in your hand -- interesting, in and of themselves,
> as
> pointers to
the eventual text in MEMORY BABE -- but stamped on one
> edge are
> the
following words:
>
> " THIS IS A PHOTOCOPY OF
ORIGINAL MATERIALS IN THE COLUMBIA
> UNIVERSITY
LIBRARIES.
>
> This copy must be returned to Special
Collections (801 Butler
>
> Library) at
the completion of the reader's use."
>
> Whilst it's
arguable, I guess, that you haven't, as yet, completed
> your use
> of this
material, I'm pretty sure this statement on the document was
> actually
> put there to
preclude you (anyone) from subsequently SELLING it, at
> some
> later date,
to another institution --no? It renders your sale of such
> material to
the library in Lowell in 1987 somewhat dodgy. I even
> wonder if
> this wasn't
one of the reasons that most other insitutions you
> apporached
> were not
interested? (I assume your archive included this material --
> on p.
> 35 of the
list you sent me years ago, it lists "266 pages of letters
> of JK to
> Allen
Ginsberg"-- and I assume that comparable letters, from other
> libraries
> came with
similar restrictions.)
>
> I guess I'm
just suggesting that, in some respects at least, some of
> the
> content of
your MB archive is rather problematical, legally speaking.
> Of
> course this
in no way excuses any mishandling of the remainder of the
> archive, or
any (alleged) Sampas interference in the running of the
> archive
> viv-a-vis
scholarly access.
>
> Just a
thought. CHEERS Rod
I.I am thinking
of someone like Helen Weaver, for example, whomight very
well be writing
her own memoirs of her time with JK, and therefore
not feel
comfortable -- I pick Helen W. just as an hypothetical example
though, you
understand.
Question:
Now Rod, Is Helen
Weaver a real person? Do you know
her? Where does
she live? Has she ever called the library at Lowell to
tell them not to
allow access to
her tapes? If she is a real person, why
would you use
her name in a
hypothetical? It appears that if Helen
Weaver is a real
person then you
may in fact have knowledge of her intentions.
Why not
just say that
Joan Doe may be writing a book?
II:
The xeroxed
letters, on the other hand, present a difficult problem --
entirely aside
from any Sampas angle. In a way I am quite surprised, in
retrospect, that
Martha Mayo agreed to purchase these in the first
place,
knowing that many
of them (originals) are the property of other
libraries.
Just as an
example, I have in front of me a xerox of part of an 8 April,
1952
letter from JK to
AG. It's a xerox you must have sent to me, and it's
covered
with margin notes
in your hand -- interesting, in and of themselves, as
pointers to the
eventual text in MEMORY BABE -- but stamped on one edge
are
the following
words:
" THIS IS A PHOTOCOPY OF
ORIGINAL MATERIALS IN THE COLUMBIA
UNIVERSITY
LIBRARIES.
This copy must be returned to Special
Collections (801 Butler
Library) at the
completion of the reader's use."
Rod:
You have posted
to this list two facts:
1. That Martha Mayo purchased this letter
despite the restrictions on
the face of the
letter.
2. That Gerry Nicosia sold it to the Library
despite the restrictions
on the face of
the letter.
Questioins:
This implys, no
states, that they have both violated the law.
Is the
letter of which
you speak in the collection at Lowell?
Does it have
Gerry's notes on
it? Was it sold to Lowell? If not, when
will you post
your apology to
both Martha Mayo and Gerry? For your
information, I am
printing out a
copy of your post and mailing it to Martha Mayo and will
ask her to
respond to me in writing that I can
reproduce and post here
to clarify this
issue. I will send her both of my posts
as well. I
will not send her
Gerry's. I will post the letter to the
list when it
is written. I don't have her address but assume that I
can get it.
III.
Whilst it's
arguable, I guess, that you haven't, as yet, completed your
use
of this material,
I'm pretty sure this statement on the document was
actually
put there to
preclude you (anyone) from subsequently SELLING it, at some
later date, to
another institution --no? It renders your sale of such
material to the
library in Lowell in 1987 somewhat dodgy.
Question:
Was this letter
sold to Lowell? Was the sale to Lowell
in any way
whatsoever
"dodgy" and if so, in what way and specifically please?
Rod you say a lot
and yet, I see nothing but your conclusions without
any supporting
facts. It seems as if you are saying
negative things
about Gerry but
in a way that you can try to claim later that they were
"honest"
mistakes and not intended to defame him.
But if your
conclusion that
he sold the restricted materials to Lowell is not true,
then you have
already, in my opinon defamed both he and Martha Mayo and
with what
proof. I await your public
response. I don't know if Gerry
sold them or not,
but that is why I am writing Martha Mayo.
IV.
(I assume your
archive included this material -- on p.
35 of the list
you sent me years ago, it lists "266 pages of letters of
JK to
Allen
Ginsberg"-- and I assume that comparable letters, from other
libraries
came with similar
restrictions.)
Question:
Why would you
make say this without knowing? Now you
have said that
Gerry has sold
other restricted materials. Man, what is
going on in
your mind. If you are wrong, this is terrible. If you are right, why
don't you come
right out and say, I have been to Lowell and reviewed the
collection, Gerry
sold these letters from Columbia etc and they are
items 1,2,3 etc
of the collection? Where is the proof to
back this up
man?
I know the
internet is a great place to exchange ideas, but to make
these accusations
and then say, well I assumed this, well you should not
do that.
Come forth with
facts or leave this thread alone Rod. It
is not right
to accuse by
innuendo.
And while we are
on the subject, Rod, you admitted that the letter you
got was from
Gerry.
>Just as an
example, I have in front of me a xerox of part of an 8
April, 1952
>letter from
JK to AG. It's a xerox you must have sent to me, and it's
covered
>with margin
notes in your hand -- interesting, in and of themselves, as
>pointers to
the eventual text in MEMORY BABE --
Why did Gerry
send this to you? Did you request his
assistance? Were
you working on a
project? Has Gerry ever answered any
questions from
you?
If Gerry sent
that to you in private correspondence, then I personally
can have no
respect for you. In the South we live by
a code, and it may
be antiquated,
but you never, never take something obtained in
friendship and
use it against that friend. That is as
low as you can
get down
here. Maybe where you come from, that is
ok, but not in my
book. And by the way, I have done my homework and
know where and how
you got it, so if
you respond, then make sure it is truthful.
As I said, I am
going to do the legal research and will report my
findings.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 11:20:15 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Post on Archives
May 26,
1997 MEMORIAL DAY
This post is in
response to the long post by Bentz Kirby:
Dear Bentz,
It's Memorial Day, and I'd rather be
finishing up my book on the
healing of Vietnam
veterans, who are one of the greatest bunch of guys I've
ever known
(they'd don't backbite and lie, they don't pretend to be your
friend when
they're not, they have a great passion for justice, and they
call 'em like
they see 'em). But instead the
bullshit's still flying here,
and so I've got
to keep shoveling it.
Mr. Anstee writes a very cool, calm,
and collected post. He's not a
hot-headed dago
like I am. But that doesn't mean there
isn't a shitload of
malice behind
what he writes.
Mr. Anstee was taking whacks at me
behind my back, calling me
"worse"
than Sampas, before I even got on the Beat-List. What is really
curious about
this is that Mr. Anstee has written and acted, to my face, as
if he were my
friend for the past 13 or so years (excuse me if I'm one or
two years
off). In return, I helped him on a whole
variety of projects,
provided him with
dozens of pieces of Beat and Kerouac memorabilia, etc.
Where that malice came from, I don't
know, other than perhaps Mr.
Anstee felt
vulnerable in that he had revealed to me how much of Jack
Kerouac's archive
he had bought for his own collection.
And now that I move
legally closer to
recovering rights in Kerouac materials for the Kerouac
Estate, perhaps I
seem like a threat to him--i.e., perhaps he fears if I win
in Florida, he
will have to surrender the Kerouac items he has paid good
money for,
because that would mean they were not legally John Sampas's to
have sold.
In any case, let's answer some of your
questions:
1) "Does anyone actually know what
Sampas has done [with regard to
selling off
Kerouac items and artifacts]? Yes, many
people have testified
to this. I have a seven-page list of witnesses and
testimony, which I will
provide to you
off-line, if you wish, since it may be needed for evidence in
court. Certainly dealer Jeffrey Weinberg, who
handled the archive for
Sampas from
1991-1993 and who is on the Beat-List, has not contested the
majority of my
allegations [he only claimed the price of the raincoat was
less than
$50,000].
We keep hearing the myth that Sampas
sold the Kerouac Archive to the
New York Public
Library. I plan to demolish that myth
once for all later
today. But let me just post one curious fact here. Jeffrey Weinberg states
that he sold the
manuscript of Kerouac's BOOK OF DREAMS (as agent for Mr.
Sampas) to a
private collector. I have every reason
to believe him.
As far as I'm concerned, Mr. Weinberg
is one of the most honest
people on this
list. I say this, not because we are
friends. We have never
met. And in fact, we've crossed swords with each
other more than a few
times over the
past 20 years (angry letters exchanged, angry phone calls).
But Mr. Weinberg is an okay guy in my
book. Every time we have
talked on the
phone, he has talked straight with me.
He has only revealed
the names of his
customers who were willing to be revealed, but he has told
me of hundreds of
items that were sold.
Somehow, when all this controversy
arose, the BOOK OF DREAMS
manuscript ended
up in the New York Public Library--so that John Sampas
could use it as
evidence that he has all along been selling stuff there, and
will someday sell
everything there.
But how did BOOK OF DREAMS get from the
private collector Weinberg
sold it to (in
his capacity as Sampas's agent) to the New York Public Library?
Did Sampas go and buy it back from the
collector and then resell it
to the NYPL? Just a thought, one of the many mysteries
that will not be
explained till
Sampas openly reveals what he has done WITH EVERY SINGLE ITEM
OF JACK KEROUAC'S
ARCHIVE.
2) Did I donate part of my collection to U Mass,
Lowell? Well, that's a
moot point. My archive was appraised at the time at
$15,000--an amount no
library was then
able to offer for it. I might well have
made that much
money selling my
archive off piece by piece, but I chose not to do that, not
to destroy its
scholarly value in that fashion.
When U Mass, Lowell, said they could
only come up with $7,500, I
agreed to that
price, saying I would make the other half a donation. I also
allowed the
university to spread the payments out over three years, to make
it easier for
them to acquire the archive. However, we
never actually drew
up donation
papers. And even if we had, since I was
simply donating part of
the appraised
value, it would be arbitrary to say which items were "donated"
and which were
"sold." But no xerox that was
owned by another library was
included in the
body of material that was finally transferred to U Mass, Lowell.
3) "What is the factual basis for this
statement [by Mr. Anstee, that most
other
institutions I approached were not interested in the MEMORY BABE
archive]?" There is no factual basis. Every single library I talked
to--and there
were many--wanted the archive, but several of them wanted it
for free, which I
simply couldn't afford to do back in 1986.
Now, several
libraries have
offered to pay Lowell good money to give up the
archive--since
Lowell acts as if they have no use for it.
One library--I'm
not at liberty to
say which--even told me they were "salivating" at the
prospect of
getting it.
4) "Who is
the woman [from Connecticut] and why did she call?" We should
call her the No
Name Woman, since librarian Martha Mayo refuses to name her.
I was first
apprised of the fact that the MEMORY BABE archive was closed by
a post card in
June, 1995, from scholar/writer/teacher Jim Jones. On the
post card, Mr.
Jones wrote: "I just tried to look at the papers you donated
to the University
of Lowell and the librarian in the Mogan Center told me
your collection
is closed to the public until the lawsuit [Jan Kerouac vs.
the Sampases] is
resolved."
I called librarian Martha Mayo, and she
told me "someone" had come
in to
complain. After much prodding, she
finally confessed that the person
was John
Sampas. Only later, after I had made a
big stink claiming John
Sampas did not
have a legal right to close my collection, did Mayo change
her story--she
has in fact changed it several times already--and claim there
was another
caller, "the woman from Connecticut."
She has thus far declined
to name her. Mr. Anstee speculates it is Helen Weaver--a
writer and lover
of Kerouac's from
Connecticut, but no, it is not Helen Weaver.
And it is
not Ann Charters,
who lives in Storrs, because I didn't interview Ann on tape.
Later still, Mayo claimed that several
people had called. But when
I pushed her on
this point, last fall in Lowell, she came back to the story
that there were
only two people, one of whom was John Sampas, and the other
was the No Name
Woman from Connecticut.
5) "What do you think about publishing
all the tapes?" It's a great
idea, esp. on
CD-ROM, but we'd have to get them out of Lowell first, since I
didn't keep
copies. I was too poor at the time to
copy 25,000 pieces of
paper and 300
tapes. I have, however, published a few
of the interviews in
literary
magazines, and nobody ever claimed I didn't have the legal right to
do so.
6) Ms. Mayo--she who cannot keep her stories
straight--claims it was
her
"understanding that permission was given." First of all, I didn't
negotiate with
Martha Mayo, I negotiated with Collections Acquisition
Librarian Dick
Ross for a full year (he was above Mayo in the U Mass
hierarchy). Ross and I had numerous conversations over
the course of a
year, before the
sale was made, and all my cards were out on the table about
the fact that there
were no written permissions. Writers who
turn over
their literary
collections to a university ALMOST NEVER have the kind of
permissions Mayo
is talking about. Ferlinghetti has put
materials from
thousands of
people into his City Lights Archive at Bancroft in Berkeley,
including 20
letters from a guy named Gerry Nicosia, and you can see all
that material
tomorrow despite the fact that there is no written permission
to do so (nobody
ever asked this Gerry Nicosia guy for his permission).
7) "Does the estate own copyright to that
[Kerouac's letters]?" Yes,
the copyright of
a letter reverts to the sender, while the physical property
is owned by the
recipient. That means John Sampas
legally owns the
copyright to
Kerouac's letters. Does this give him
the right to prevent
people from
reading those letters if they are in a public institution?
ABSOLUTELY
NOT. Does it give him the right to
prevent scholars from
photocopying
those letters for personal use? That is
a moot point, an area
that is currently
under debate. Some lawyers will say,
yes, xerox is a form
of publication,
and Sampas lawfully controls publication.
Other lawyers
will say xerox of
a single copy is not publication.
Different libraries
have different
policies, and the policies are changing all the time.
But at present there are a number of
libraries I can walk into
tomorrow and
xerox Kerouac letters, including Bancroft at Berkeley. This
despite the fact
that Sampas has called some of these libraries, including
Bancroft, to
complain about such things.
8) "If Sampas is wrong, then we all should
tell him to get out of others
business." Amen, and out of the business of trying to
control and limit
Kerouac
scholarship.
Best always,
Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 14:25:06 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: to Kirby
Kirby - I took
out the "and other arsonists" out of the title...i'm less
peeved now!
You know, Kirby, in England they have a
very fine legal concept of
distinguishimg
the Solicitor, who establishes the case - tort, defense, etc.
- and he
Barrister, who fights it in court withthe assistance at table of
the solicitor. It
pisses me off to see you taking the role of Barrister with
regardto Rod's
post and ladling on the vitriol and gasoline to really stoke
things up.
The points made were made in a calm and
reasoned way. I know that
Rod and Gerry are
seen to be at odds, but if everyone from the two of them
to you and to me
would just cool it and act nice, we could still discuss
things, throw
light into the corners and - if not agree - at least stop
trying to hate
each other and piss each other off...
..and I apologize for pissing you off,
but try to be more neutral in
all this. it's
not necessary to take sides. Cimino has said it often enough
that the idea
should be to protect and open access to the archives. I swear
that after
listening to all this stuff, I am going - at minimum - to visit
New York to see
what's there...and maybe I'll go bug Mayo in Lowell!
Having started with the legal eagle
baloney (maloney?) I ask also
that all the talk
of suits, counter-suits, fraud, malfeasance, theft, and
various other
skullduggery be left off the list - unless of course it's
really juicy
stuff, in which case Carry On!
One final point in support of one of
Rod's points; it's critical to
move quickly on
any audio tape recordings in Gerry's or anyone elses's
archive that ar
more than 15 years old. There is likely to already be
evidence of
degradation and after 25 years you risk being left with tape hiss!
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 14:37:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: to Kirby
Antoine Maloney
wrote:
> Kirby - I
took out the "and other arsonists" out of the title...i'm
> less
> peeved now!
>
> You know, Kirby, in England they have
a very fine legal
> concept of
>
distinguishimg the Solicitor, who establishes the case - tort,
> defense,
etc.
> - and he
Barrister, who fights it in court withthe assistance at table
> of
> the
solicitor. It pisses me off to see you taking the role of
> Barrister
with
> regardto
Rod's post and ladling on the vitriol and gasoline to really
> stoke
> things up.
>
> The points made were made in a calm
and reasoned way. I know
> that
> Rod and
Gerry are seen to be at odds, but if everyone from the two of
> them
> to you and
to me would just cool it and act nice, we could still
> discuss
> things,
throw light into the corners and - if not agree - at least
> stop
> trying to
hate each other and piss each other off...
>
> ..and I apologize for pissing you off,
but try to be more
> neutral in
> all this.
it's not necessary to take sides. Cimino has said it often
> enough
> that the
idea should be to protect and open access to the archives. I
> swear
> that after
listening to all this stuff, I am going - at minimum - to
> visit
> New York to
see what's there...and maybe I'll go bug Mayo in Lowell!
>
> Having started with the legal eagle
baloney (maloney?) I ask
> also
> that all the
talk of suits, counter-suits, fraud, malfeasance, theft,
> and
> various
other skullduggery be left off the list - unless of course
> it's
> really juicy
stuff, in which case Carry On!
>
> One final point in support of one of Rod's
points; it's
> critical to
> move quickly
on any audio tape recordings in Gerry's or anyone elses's
>
> archive that
ar more than 15 years old. There is likely to already be
> evidence of
degradation and after 25 years you risk being left with
> tape hiss!
>
> Antoine
> Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
>
> "An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what
> to do!"
> -- Norman Navrotsky
and Utah Phillips
Antoine:
Understand that I
do not yet represent Gerry. But, the way
these posts
are coming is
disturbing. He is a great biographer and
his work,
including
interviews is in danger of being lost.
He does not need to
defend his work
to accusations that are not backed by facts.
I am
investigating assisting him on the Lowell matter and what can be
done to preserve
the tapes. That is all so far.
My point here was
not to be threatening, but to make sure that people
understand that
you just can not make posts like this that imply he has
done something
wrong and has ilegally sold materials that were
restricted,
unless you are right.
Why was the post
just, hey the tapes need to be saved, lets do it. The
rest could be done
back channel. Rod had Gerry's number, he
can call,
write or
backchannel. We don't need people making
statements like this
unless they are
true and are substantiated. I do not
want to lose Gerry
from this list
because of such stuff!!
Thanks and I will
take your advice and see where it leads.
On the other
hand, I am not
going to sit back and let others attack Gerry and leave
him out to
twist. Rod, stick to the good stuff, or
what you know.
Thanks
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 14:49:25 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Frank O'Hara, a poetry.
Rinaldo:
I just
borrowed Frank O'Hara's Collected Poetry
and plan on dipping into it
today.
Very likely I
will find out why I am not a poet.
Julie
a painter who
thinks she would rather be a poet, but she is not
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 12:51:45 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: spontaneous sidewalk re-worked.
In-Reply-To: <l03020903afaf35490ac4@[206.25.67.120]>
mc
i read a
lot (& his
wife)
of authors
writing about
the end of
caps
capitals
capitalism
captives
all they can
see seeing
&
critics
writing about
only
themselves
& the end of
their
nose.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 11:59:42 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Gerry's reply
>Now Rod, Is
Helen Weaver a real person? Do you know
her? Where does
>she live? Has she ever called the library at Lowell to
tell them not to
>allow access
to her tapes? If she is a real person,
why would you use
>her name in a
hypothetical? It appears that if Helen
Weaver is a real
>person then
you may in fact have knowledge of her intentions. Why not
>just say that
Joan Doe may be writing a book?
GOOD QUESTION,
BENTZ. HELEN WEAVER IS A FRIEND OF MINE,
AND IT WAS NOT SHE
WHO CALLED U
MASS, LOWELL TO COMPLAIN ABOUT HER TAPE BEING ACCESSIBLE. I
HAVE HER ADDRESS
AND CAN PROVIDE IT TO YOU OFFLINE, IF YOU NEED IT. MR.
ANSTEE HERE WAS
CLEARLY USING A SPECIFIC NAME OF A 'WOMAN IN CONNECTICUT' TO
GIVE MORE
CREDIBILITY TO HIS ARGUMENT.
>
>II:
>2. That Gerry Nicosia sold it to the Library
despite the restrictions
>on the face
of the letter.
>
>Questioins:
>
>This implys,
no states, that they have both violated the law. Is the
>letter of
which you speak in the collection at Lowell?
Does it have
>Gerry's notes
on it? Was it sold to Lowell? If not,
when will you post
>your apology
to both Martha Mayo and Gerry? For your
information, I am
>printing out
a copy of your post and mailing it to Martha Mayo and will
>ask her to
respond to me in writing that I can
reproduce and post here
>to clarify
this issue. I will send her both of my
posts as well. I
>will not send
her Gerry's. I will post the letter to
the list when it
>is
written. I don't have her address but
assume that I can get it.
>
MARTHA MAYO IS
SPECIAL COLLECTIONS LIBRARIAN AT U MASS, LOWELL, C/O THE
MOGAN CENTER, 40
FRENCH STREET, LOWELL MASSACHUSETTS 01854. SHE'S ALSO ON
THE INTERNET BUT
I DON'T HAVE HER EMAIL ADDRESS. SHE'S
NOT TOO MUCH OF A
FAN OF GERALD
NICOSIA, ESPECIALLY AFTER I FILED A POLICE REPORT REVEALING
THAT SHE HAD
ALLOWED 60 RARE LETTERS TO BE STOLEN FROM THE MEMORY BABE
COLLECTION, BUT I
ALSO EXPECT SHE WILL NOT PRETEND THE LETTERS ROD ALLUDES
TO ARE IN HER
POSSESSION, WHEN I HAVE PROOF THEY ARE NOT.
In the South we live by a code, and it may
>be
antiquated, but you never, never take something obtained in
>friendship
and use it against that friend. That is
as low as you can
>get down
here. Maybe where you come from, that is
ok, but not in my
>book. And by the way, I have done my homework and
know where and how
>you got it,
so if you respond, then make sure it is truthful.
>
>
>--
>Bentz
>bocelts@scsn.net
>
>http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
>
>
I live by the same code, and it has
been one of the shocks of my
life during this
whole Kerouac Vs. Sampas affair to find how many people I
have helped have
stabbed me in the back, including Ann Charters.
And how
much of it seems
to be connected to making money off of/with help from John
Sampas.
In 1988, when the Kerouac Commemorative
was dedicated in Lowell, the
Sampas family and
their allies, who were running the ceremony and
festivities,
chose to invite neither Jan Kerouac nor any of the Kerouac
biographers. Brad Parker, who had an independent group
(Lowell Corporation
for the Humanities,
much at odds with the "official" Lowell Kerouac
Committee)
invited me and provided money for me to come to Lowell to speak
during that
celebration. I told Brad Parker that he
should also invite Ann
Charters, and he
did. That's how Ann got to Lowell, and
got to meet John
Sampas. Three years later, after Stella Sampas died
and John took over, he
hired Ann to
provide consultation regarding the Kerouac archives and to
begin a series of
lucrative editing projects, which continues to this very day.
However, in 1994, Ann Charters, who was
one of the chairs of NYU's
Beat conference,
did her best to see that I was not invited; and when I
finally did come
(at Jan Kerouac's insistence) I was not given the airfare
and free room at
the University Suites that all the other participants got
(including
Charters herself and even Gregory Corso's children, who were not
actually
participants but just there to lend moral support). In 1995, when
NYU did a KEROUAC
CONFERENCE, which listed Charters' name at the top of the
program, Ann
claimed to me she knew nothing about the conference till a week
before the
programs were sent out. When I asked to
be invited, I was
completely
stonewalled, and when I showed up anyway and paid my $120 to get
in (as Jan
herself had to do), I was removed by police for defending Jan
Kerouac's right
to speak there. When I asked Ann if she
thought this was
right, she said,
"I know nothing about it."
Thanks a lot, Ann.
Thanks a lot, Rod.
Thanks a lot, Paul Maher, for my going
to the Lowell District
Attorney to tell
him you WERE MOST LIKELY NOT THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVE THIEF,
after Martha Mayo
claimed (without evidence) that you were.
Et tu, Brutus?
Still not giving up on friendship,
Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 13:01:36 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: Frank O'Hara, a poetry.
In-Reply-To:
<970526144924_-1866894138@emout17.mail.aol.com>
>
> Julie
> a painter
who thinks she would rather be a poet, but she is not
>
julie
can understand
that completely. trying to convince myself of many things
that i am (may
be) not (or maybe just not yet, who knows?) - painter,
artist,
printmaker, student, worker, drone, individual, poet, eternal
teahead of time
(like proust?)
challenge, isnt it?
yrs
derek
a pinocchio who
thinks he would rather be a real boy, but he is not.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 15:46:11 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Paul Maher <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Gerry's reply
> Thanks a lot, Paul Maher, for my going
to the Lowell District
>Attorney to
tell him you WERE MOST LIKELY NOT THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVE THIEF,
>after Martha
Mayo claimed (without evidence) that you were.
> Et tu, Brutus?
>
"Brutus hath rived my
heart:
>A friend
should bear his friend's infirmities,
But Brutus makes mine greater than they
are."
Gerry-
Am I to be indentured to your servitude
because you salvaged my
reputation in the
face of the law? I neither sought nor earned your aid. I
never solicited
your aid, endorsed your cause, nor have I ever even met you
face to face nor
will I ever want to in the future. You are a scourge upon
serious Kerouac
scholarship, you are a blight to academia, and you and your
unsophisticated
ways will some day reap what you sow. Your insignificant
presence does not
warrant any fear in my heart nor will it ever. I paid my
price for my
CRIME and it in more ways than one changed my life for the
better. I am
REAL AND IN TOUCH
WITH MY REALITY. Creative freedom has always been the
cornerstone of my
existence and the mother of all my inventions. You, Mr.
Nicosia, play no
part in this. You do not have a monopoly on Kerouac
scholarship. You
create the vendettas that are employed against you and then
you use this as a
forum for "us against them." Mr. Sampas, (if you insist
there are
"sides" to this foolish drama)demonstrates maturity and
professionalism
in his role as literary executor. You, on the other hand, do
not even
demonstrate a level-handed approach to scholarship. You use Memory
Babe as your
pulpit when a good amount of the material is plagued with gross
inaccuracies and
poor
documentation.
yes, my pen can indeed be as poisonous as yours but that is
not what I am
about. You play no part in my daily but as a flea on an
elephant's ass.
You are a fly on a mountain of shit. it's too bad you and
your devout
followers (if you have any) missed Hale-Bopp..............last
on this....EVER.
PAUL MAHER JR. THE GUY WHO STOLE BOOKS FROM MOGAN CENTER
LIBRARY BUT IS
NOW THE SCAPEGOAT FOR GERRY NICOSIA'S WORTHLESS STOLEN
ARCHIVES....
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 16:32:29 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Peter Milo <cva38@PROLOG.NET>
Organization:
Micron Electronics, Inc.
Subject: who is your dad? and letter to kerouac
Hi
I'm a lurker
turning active now. I have a quick
question for phil who
is your dad is
mentioned in any of Kerouac's books or any such thing?
It seems that a
lot of people here have known each other for years
through families
even. I never met any of the beats but I
was going to
try to meet
Ginsburg and as luck has it the year I'm moving back to New
York he dies.
One more question
a few months ago around febuary there was this site it
was one a
narrative I forgot the author's name but it was called "letter
to kerouac"
I liked a lot and I printed it out I lost that copy and the
site is off of
the net so does any one know the author's email address
so I can get a
copy?
thanks a lot
Peater
(really spelled
Peter but this spelling is more individual)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 16:42:02 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Paul Maher
Paul, I gotta
tell ya buddy, you're showing your true colors with that last
post of
yours. For a guy who three days ago said
he'd had enough and even
sent a message
saying "unsubscribe" you sure have a whole lot to say about
nothing.
Paul, some of us
were hoping to keep the *debate* at a reasonable level
during the cease
fire of the Memorial Day weekend.
Obviously you don't want
to do your part
as evidenced by the general nastiness of your tone.
"Scholar?" Paul, I hardly think so given the level to
which you have sunk
here.
Say something
useful, Paul, instead of general namecalling!
I asked you a
week ago why you
thought Gabrielle's signature was real as opposed to faked
since you're one
of the few people on the list to have actually seen the
will. Why can't you answer questions put to you?
Jerry Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 16:53:24 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Clarification
I have received
several back channel posts here. First,
I intend to
write Lowell and
find out about the letters. Not as a
lawyer, but as a
fan. Why?
Because there was a post here by Rod today that said that
Gerry sold
restricted documents to UMass Lowell and that UMass Lowell
bought them. I want to know the answer. And if Gerry did that, then I
want to know
should he have done that? Was it legal?
If Rod has proof
that it was done, then he should offer the proof. Not
state what his
assumption is. This is not some comment
on well, I think
Jimi Hendrix was
high at such and such a festival. And
then finding out
he was not. It was a direct statement that Gerry had done
a thing that
was not right and
in violation of a statemen printed on the document.
Now, since we
can't look at the documents at Lowell, then we must do
what? I don't know what else to do but write the
woman and ask her if
Rod is
correct. Or Rod can answer on the list
and give the information
that shows what
he says is correct. If he is not
correct, then I want
to see it
clarified.
Another thing, I
am not Gerry's attorney. I am not his
agent. If the
time comes that I
enter into a contract with him to do any legal work, I
will inform the
list and will not post on his matters on this list. If
I were his
attorney I would not be posting on this list.
All of what I
am doing is as a
fan of Kerouac. Now, if Rod is right,
and there is no
explanation, I
would not want to get involved. But if
Rod is wrong,
then it should be
clarified. I will post the letter
tonight or tomorrow
when it is ready.
I have received
other back channel mail with links to explain some
things to me, I
will check it out.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 17:20:00 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rod Anstee <Nastees@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: "Purchased" versus
"Donated"
I'm off out in a
few minutes to coach soccer, but I wanted, if possible, to
nip this thread
in the bud, albeit somewhat belatedly. It seems I used the
word
"purchased" in regard to the 2000 xeroxed letters in the MB Archive,
when
"donated' would have been a more appropriate word. I apologize for this
-- in my defense,
I would say only that I don't think this distinction has
ever been made
previously in regards to the contents of the MB Archive, i.e.
between the
"purchased" contents and the "donated" contents. In any
event,
the statement I
quoted from, that was stamped upon the 1952 JK to AG letter
I mentioned earlier today, surely also
precludes the subsequent "donating"
of such material,
so the point I was trying to make still stands -- the
presence of this
class of material in the MB archive creates a
problematical
situation for the
administrating of the collection. Again, quite apart from
any Sampas
pressure. I don't think that's an unfair statement, is it?
Just to makes
things even more clear, as regards to my confusion. This is a
quotation from
the covering letter (dated 12 February, 1987) you sent to me
with the list of
what you earlier today referred to as your "research
archive."
You wrote:
"This
CATALOGUE (emphasis mine) is privileged information, and I ask that you
not pass it
around. Anyone interested should deal directly with me."
I guess I took
"catalogue" to mean a list of items for sale.
Also, in the
matter of your attempts to place the archive in other
institutions, in
a later letter, dated 3 May, 1987 you further wrote:
"It looks
like I might be selling the whole lot to Jeffrey Weinberg of
Sudbury Mass -- I
would rather have sold it to an institution or library, but
NONE (emphasis
yours, actually!) of them could come up with even five
thousand bucks
(though U of Texas had just spent seventeen MILLION on some
weird collection
-- ,...."
As for your help,
down through the years, yes of course you have been an
invaluable help
in my occasional scholarly forays -- I have certainly never
denied this, or
even diminished its importance. I hereby thank you publicly,
if that is what
is required -- I know, however, that I thanked you privately
every step of the
way. You know that my quarrels with you in the past month
or so, focus
specifically on the issue of the JK archive, and whether you
represent a
Kerouacian's best friend in this regard, or whether your
continued
involvment in this issue isn't actually counter-productive. That's
all. I believe
the latter. I know many others disagree. That's fine.
Again, I
apologize for using "purchased" instead of "donated" in my
post
earlier
today. My point -- I thought a very mild
one, actually -- still
stands though
Gerry.
CHEERS, Rod
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 14:27:15 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: to Kirby
R. Bentz Kirby
wrote: . . .
>
> I am investigating
assisting him on the Lowell matter and what can be
> done to
preserve the tapes. That is all so far.
>
> My point
here was not to be threatening, but to make sure that people
> understand
that you just can not make posts like this that imply he has
> done
something wrong and has ilegally sold materials that were
> restricted,
unless you are right.
>
Mr. Kirby,
Like others I am
somewhat confused by your role in this.
Are you
1--trying to
catch up on this matter and come to your own independant
judgement?
2--acting as a
current or potential attorney for Mr. Nicosia?
3--trying to
improve our collective debating habits from the vantage
point of your
legal profession?
I am not in your
business so can't provide an expert
prospective, but
if you looking at
a lawyer client relationship with Nicosia are you
using the list to
1 research your
case?
2 argue that
case, the way attorney's try to use the media outside
trials?
I'm stumped. It seems to me that if I thought I would be
working on
this I would keep
my mouth shut and my powder dry for court.
It feels
like what you are
doing is pouring gasoline on a situation that looked
over the weekend
to be cooling. Mr Nicosia and Mr. Chaput
were actually
talking about
memories of Kerouac. Real improvement I
thought. No
we're back to
yelling and name calling.
Are we supposed
to watch our posts because you might drag us into court?
I welcome anyone
into any of these discussions, but I certainly didn't
anticipate that
we needed someone to constantly insert their legal
function into the
discussion. Nobody asked for a court
appointed
arbitor. I don't think anyone wants to come to this
list accompanied by
their
lawyers. Let's get back to talking about
the beats. If you are
here to talk
about the beats, fine, join in. If you
are here as a
lawyer for some
party on the list, my own personal wish is that you
dissapear and let
us get back to what we used to do
We sometimes used
to have little spats on this list, but nothing like
this Estate
nightmare. If another member disagrees
with me I have no
intention of
suing them. Enough already. My recollection is that
Gerery Nicosia
brought this fight to this list. Some of
us apparantly
love it, some of
us are sick of it (count me in the latter group.) But
nobody else has
brought his or her lawyer.
J Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 23:22:01 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: SAMPAS WHO? Re: a calm request
In-Reply-To:
<199705260519.WAA07591@sweden.it.earthlink.net>
At 22.19 25/05/97
-0700, Gerry wrote:
>..., it has
nothing to do with
>>his
archieves, its a damn pissing contest/whose got the bigger balls and
>>the rest
of the nonsense. Its pure bullshit. Get off your ego trip and
>>realize THAT truth.
>>
>>
>>Lisa M.
Rabey
>Dear
Lisa, May 25, 1997
>
> I am here on the Beat-List only because
of the need to preserve Jack
>Kerouac's
archives. It has turned into a pissing
contest because that is
>what Mr.
Chaput and Mr. Anstee wanted it to become.
They have effectively
>killed the
discussion of what Sampas is doing with the archives and why, if
>he really
intends to put them into a library, he has not signed even a
>statement of
intention in 6 years. They don't want me
talking about things
>like that, so
they call me names and accuse me of various crimes, and then I
>answer them
back, etc. etc.
> Well here's my deal, Lisa, I'll just
quite answering their bullshit
>charges, and
just keep posting the truth as I see it.
Maybe some day
>someone from
"the other side" will appear to argue this thing out
>rationally,
and give us some hard facts about what Mr. Sampas is doing and
>plans to
do--rather than just calling me names and saying what a bad person
>I am.
> By the way, Paul Maher's list from the
NY Public Library shows that
>they do not
own all the versions of even one Kerouac book (published or
>unpublished). A scholar who analyzes a work needs
everything from the first
>notes thru
first second and third drafts, and then the galleys. Kerouac
>typed several
versions of every published book. The NY
Public has acquired
>only early
notebook drafts of some individual books, and they have not even
>one complete
version of Kerouac's seven most important books: ON THE ROAD,
>THE DHARMA
BUMS, DR. SAX, VISIONS OF GERARD, VISIONS OF CODY, VANITY OF
>DULUOZ, and
DESOLATION ANGELS.
> This is what we should be talking
about.
> Best, Gerry Nicosia
>
>
i think that
Gerry, il mio paesano Gerry, is right/
why i am writing
about this matter? i have under my nose
the "Rolling
Stone" issue 759 may 1,1997 pag.58 & by
pure coincidence
there is an ad like this:
You haven't
heard Jack yet.
Kerouac
kicks joy
darkness
with performances
by
Morfine
Lydia Lunch
Michael Stipe
Steven Tyler
Hunter S. Thompson
Maggie Estep
& the Spitters
Richard Kewis
Lawrence Ferlinghetti
&Helium
Jack Kerouac
& Joe Strummer
Allen Ginsberg
Eddie Vedder,
Campbell 2000
& Sadie 7
William Burroughs
& tomandandy
Juliana Hatfield
John Cale
Johnny Depp & Come
Robert Hunter
Lee Ranaldo
& Dana Colley
Anna Domino
Rob Buck & Danny Chauvin
as Hitchhiker
Patti Smith
with Thurston Moore
& Lenny Kaye
Warren Zevon
& Michael Wolff
Jim Carroll with
Lee Ranaldo, Lenny Kaye
& Anton Sanco
Matt Dillon
with Joey Altruda
Inger Lorre & Jeff Buckley
Eric Andersen
In stores April 8th
Produced by Jim Sampas
Associate Producer: Lee Ranaldo
my question is
Sampas mentioned above is
that Sampas who
Nicosia is referring in his
posts? by way of
this Sampas i immediatley got
a negative
feedback (like a pavlov dog) to such
a work despite
the excellent pedigree of performers
how much money is
rolling out ?
the works of Jack
Kerouac who
is universal
maybe free to the people not (c)
or other e.g. can
the pope damage the "Cappella
Sistina" ?
he is the owner can the concil town of
Rome destroy the
"Fontana di Trevi" ? he is the
owner BUT
everyone know that this works of the
human mankind are
really NOT owner of a single
person i hope,
i miei piu' cari
saluti a tutti,
yrs Rinaldo Rasa.
* hi! guardate
che scrivo dall'Italia, da un altro mondo! *
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 17:37:41 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: "Purchased" versus
"Donated"
You know, Rod, I
for one am extremely uncomfortable that you're using private
letters between
you and Nicosia to try to bolster some argument that doesn't
have a thing to
do with THE KEROUAC ARCHIVES which is the main issue here.
Bentz is right. A person of honor would not do such a thing!
You know, Rod,
Gerry Nicosia is the ONLY PERSON IN THE WORLD trying to do
anything about
Kerouac's Archive. As a person who says
he cares about such
things I really
don't see why you feel it is necessary to blast him publicly
every chance you
get, often in some very shady ways.
Jerry Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 14:46:35 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Post on Archives
May 26,
1997
Paul Maher
writes:
"I was under the impression that
it [the woman from Connecticut] was
Bernice
Lemire."
Nice try, Paul. No, Bernice lives in Boston. The reason her thesis
is not available
is that someone stole it out of the Boston College archive.
Luckily I
obtained a (legal) copy of it and put the copy in my archive.
Now, if only my
archive were open, you could go over there and use it.
-- Gerry "blight to academia" Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 17:50:51 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Letter to Mayo
This is a
multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------A826D122C50600B0BA35406D
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
This is the
letter to Mayo. I intend to mail it
tomorrow.
I am doing this
as a fan.
Peace,
If you have a
better idea, let me know.
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
--------------A826D122C50600B0BA35406D
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="mayoltr.txt"
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May 26, 1997
Martha Mayo
Special
Collections Librarian
University of
Massachusetts, Lowell
The Mogan Center
40 French Street
Lowell, MA 01854
RE: Kerouac
Letters from Columbia University Archives
Subject: Gerry
Nicosia Archives
Dear Ms Mayo:
I am a long time
fan of Jack Kerouac. Some weeks ago, an
Internet friend of
mine suggested that I join the beat mail
list. I finally did and was quite
surprised at what I found. One of the main themes seems to be a Sampas
vs
Nicosia situation. There are included as three posts from the
Internet/www
mail list, one from Rod Anstee and two of my
replies. These posts will likely
mean little to you, as these things are out of
context and more important to
the ones involved.
However there is
one thing that you can clarify. Mr.
Anstee says to Mr. Nicosia
that "In a way I am quite surprised, in
retrospect, that Martha Mayo agreed to
purchase these in the first place, knowing
that many of them (originals) are
the property of other libraries." He goes on to then state that Gerry Nicosia
sold to your library a photocopy of a letter
from Jack Kerouac to Allen
Ginsberg dated April 8, 1952 even though it
has the instructions on it that the
copy is to be returned to Columbia University.
It is my
understanding that we are not allowed to view the collection or hear
the recordings deposited there. Therefore, I am writing to you to inquire
whether the items purchased by your library do
in fact include this letter and
other such items, that belong to other
Universities and are marked in such a
fashion.
If so, can you tell me what letters are so marked and whether or not
the sale and purchase is in fact legal,
illegal, questionable or what.
I am going to post
a copy of this letter to the mail list.
If you do write in
reply, please do so with the understanding
that any reply will be posted as
well.
And, if you will not reply, please tell me how I can confirm whether or
not this is in fact true.
Thank you and
with kind personal regards, I am
Sincerely,
Bentz Kirby
cc: Beat-L@cunyvm.cuny.edu
--------------A826D122C50600B0BA35406D--
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 15:15:50 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: "Purchased" versus
"Donated"
.... In any event, the statement I quoted from,
that was stamped upon the
1952 JK to AG
letter
> I mentioned
earlier today, surely also precludes the subsequent "donating"
>of such
material, so the point I was trying to make still stands -- the
>presence of
this class of material in the MB archive creates a problematical
>situation for
the administrating of the collection....
>
>Also, in the
matter of your attempts to place the archive in other
>institutions,
in a later letter, dated 3 May, 1987 you further wrote:
>
>"It
looks like I might be selling the whole lot to Jeffrey Weinberg of
>Sudbury Mass
-- I would rather have sold it to an institution or library, but
>NONE
(emphasis yours, actually!) of them could come up with even five
>thousand
bucks (though U of Texas had just spent seventeen MILLION on some
>weird
collection -- ,...."
>
>CHEERS, Rod
>
Dear Rod,
Have you no shame? I just get done posting the fact that none of
the Kerouac to
Ginsberg letters, legally xeroxed from Columbia, have found
their way into
the MEMORY BABE archive at Lowell, and you turn around and
tell me again
that it was illegal for me to sell or donate them to U Mass,
Lowell.
I didn't SELL OR DONATE THEM TO
LOWELL. I DIDN'T PUT THEM IN LOWELL
AT ALL. DO YOU FINALLY GET IT??? Or are you going to make five more posts
telling me I
shouldn't have put them in Lowell?
OK, now you start quoting my private
letters to you. I figured that
would come sooner
or later. I'm not going to match you by
quoting yours.
Let me just say, it was still a lie for
you to say no one wanted my
archive. In fact, every library I talked to wanted
them; but in those days
nobody had much
money to purchase them.
In fact, I did not like the idea of
selling the archive to Weinberg,
since he would
give me no guarantee about keeping the archive together, SO I
WORKED HARD TO
MAKE A LIBRARY DEAL HAPPEN. I wrote and
called Paul Marion
several times, to
see if we could get U Mass Lowell to come up with a
modicum of money;
and I gave Lowell unusually generous terms, letting them
spread the
payments over three years, with no interest charged, in order to
make the deal
possible.
For shame, Rod! Quit these attacks on me! You know why you're
doing it, and
everybody else knows too. You want to
set me on fire so
people stop
asking what Sampas is doing with the Kerouac archive.
CUT THE BULLSHIT!
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 18:20:17 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: second try,
The text file did
not work, so I will try html. Sorry to
duplicate this
post. Personally, I am tried of the whole thing and
intend to drop my
end of
thread. I wait to see what Lowell says.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 17:35:08 -0600
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Mitchell
<mitchell@AUGSBURG.EDU>
Subject: Litigation Theology
The problem with
lawyers is not that they stink, it's that they come so
highly and
peculiarly perfumed (& not, from the word GO, with Corso's
gasoline).
That's just
MO(loch).
Thanks, but
asking a lawyer to clarify his/her role in anything is like
asking the Devil
in all his/her glory and/or God in all his/her mercy to
speak, given
either's thousand tongues, some of them split, others twisted
around their own
feet.
That's just my
theory of Litigation Theology.
Rertospectively
yrs.,
John M.
Be cool. And if you cain't be cool, don't drool.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 18:36:18 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: Litigation Theology
John Mitchell
wrote:
> The problem
with lawyers is not that they stink, it's that they come
> so
> highly and
peculiarly perfumed (& not, from the word GO, with Corso's
> gasoline).
>
> That's just
MO(loch).
>
> Thanks, but
asking a lawyer to clarify his/her role in anything is
> like
> asking the
Devil in all his/her glory and/or God in all his/her mercy
> to
> speak, given
either's thousand tongues, some of them split, others
> twisted
> around their
own feet.
>
> That's just
my theory of Litigation Theology.
>
>
Rertospectively yrs.,
> John M.
> Be
cool. And if you cain't be cool, don't
drool.
ROTFLMAO, even it is aimed at me. Good post John. By the way, were
you kin to John
R. ;-)
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 18:38:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Lawyers
I heard a Spanish
proverb which I told my children yesterday:
It is better to
be a mouse in the mouth of a cat, than a man in a
lawyer's hands.
So true, but yet,
what about in the hands of a used car salesman, or a
vinyl siding
salesman, or well, whatever.
First thing let's
do, is kill all the lawyers. Paraphrase
of William
Shakespear.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 18:44:10 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: A Note to the Peacekeepers
Folks, I'm
embarrassed for you. How can you keep
silent allowing Anstee as
well as Paul
Maher to say the things they're saying about Nicosia?
It's one thing to
want to see peace on the list. That's
fine if that's what
you really want,
but these guys are tossing everything but the kitchen sink
at Nicosia and
you sit silent! You should be flooding the list with notes to
Anstee telling
him how off base he is to bring private correspondance in to
this!
Every person on
this list is being party to keeping this thread alive by
allowing Anstee
to get away unscathed with these ridiculous assertions. I
think Gerry has
done remarkably well in maintaining his cool especially in
light of Paul
Maher's vitriolic posts.
Right is right,
people, regardless of what you may think about Nicosia or
"his
cause".
Inaction is as
much of a statement as action is.
Jerry Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 15:53:54 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
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From: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Why We Shouldn't Study Kerouac
May 26, 1997
To all the good
and friendly folks on the Beat-List:
(the rest can kiss me ass)
Has anyone noticed how, within a few weeks,
the debate has been
switched from why
we SHOULD be able to study Jack Kerouac (making his
archive of papers
available at a library, etc.) to WHY WE SHOULDN'T BE ABLE
TO STUDY JACK
KEROUAC? No one has been popping at
Sampas for selling off
hundreds of
pieces of Jack Kerouac's unique literary archive. Instead, they
have been popping
at me for putting my own scholarly archive, the MEMORY
BABE archive, on
deposit at U Mass, Lowell, to help people study Jack
Kerouac's life
and works.
I.e., I'm the bad guy because I tried
to make my huge body of
scholarly
research materials available to other writers and students. The
very thing I am
asking Sampas to do is now an evil thing.
Have I walked thru the Looking
Glass? Is Rod Anstee the Mad Hatter?
Hey, what's going
on here, folks?
Is it an accident that we're now
debating if Nicosia broke the law
by putting his
archive in a library, instead of asking if Sampas has a moral
right to destroy
the integrity of Jack Kerouac's archive?
I don't think
it's an
accident--not by a long shot. It's
serving someone's purpose.
Doesn't take a
genius to figure out whose.
I used to think pro basketball was a
hot sport till I got into the
business of
trying to save the Kerouac Archive. In
the space of four weeks
here I've been
accused of breaking the law by both Phil Chaput and Rod
Anstee--neither
of whom has produced a shred of evidence to substantiate
their charges.
Mr. Anstee has even had to INVENT EVIDENCE, claiming I sold
letters xeroxed
from Columbia University (which could not legally be resold)
to Lowell, when I
NEITHER SOLD NOR DONATED THOSE LETTERS TO LOWELL. I NEVER
PUT THEM IN
LOWELL AT ALL. PERIOD.
I have also been called every name in
the book--the last set of
volleys comes
from Paul Maher, Jr., another Sampas apologist,
whose claim
to fame is to
have stolen fifty rare books on the raising of silk worms from
the Mogan Center,
the same building leased by U Mass, Lowell, from which key
parts of the
MEMORY BABE archive were also stolen.
Mr. Chaput tells me to "fuck
myself" (a pleasant experience
according to
Lenny Bruce), and Mr. Maher calls me "a scourge upon serious
Kerouac
scholarship" and "a blight to academia" and "a fly on a
mountain of
shit." Coming from those two, I guess I should
figure I've been complimented.
All these folks stand to gain something
from Mr. Sampas.
Maher needs material for his new
Kerouac Quarterly, and from all
appearances,
Sampas has been giving it to him.
Anstee already purchased major items
from the Kerouac Archive for
his private
collection, which have gone up tremendously in value, and he
would doubtless
like to purchase some more. He would
also like to keep me
from proving
Gabrielle Kerouac's will a forgery, because that would force
him to surrender
the Kerouac items he purchased at fairly steep
prices--since if
the will was no good, then John Sampas would have sold
those things without
a clear title to them.
Chaput is connected with Lowell
Celebrates Kerouac!--a committee
partly financed
by John Sampas, and which, from what I hear, takes its
directions almost
exclusively from Sampas. Does Phil get
paid for his work
for LCK!, or does
he just get the percs of meeting famous people and getting
to act
important? I don't know, but you can bet
he's getting something out
of posting
information here that is spoon-fed to him by Sampas.
Chaput got almost everything he put up
here from Sampas, including
the figures from
Jan Kerouac's income tax returns, which could only have
come from
Sterling Lord, Mr. Sampas's and Ms. Kerouac's joint agent (unless
Sampas has a mole
inside the IRS). But CHAPUT WAS TOO
COWARDLY TO ANSWER MY
QUESTION ABOUT
THE SOURCE OF THOSE INCOME TAX RETURNS, BECAUSE IT EITHER
MEANT THAT MR.
SAMPAS HAD GOTTEN THEM ILLEGALLY OR ELSE STERLING LORD
(SAMPAS'S AGENT)
HAD BREACHED HIS FIDUCIARY DUTY TO JAN KEROUAC BY RELEASING
THEM. C'mon, Phil, c'mon out of hiding. Who gave you Jan's income tax
forms? Mr. Sampas or Mr. Lord? Which one of them is in trouble?
What?
Your tongue tied for a change?
Good folks, I'm really tired of all
this bullshit. I plan one more
post, later today,
to expose the absolutely FALSE CLAIM that the Jack
Kerouac Archive
is in the New York Public Library already.
Then I'm taking off for a while.
There are some good people here who can
stick up for the
truth--Jerry
Cimino, Joe Grant, and Bentz Kirby among others. I need a
break to get back
to my real work--writing books, and advocating for the
right to study
Jack Kerouac's papers, in court, which is the only place such
advocacy will
really count.
By the way, I've been accused of hiring
these folks as "mouthpieces"
for me. I've never met either Grant or Kirby. Jerry I met only twice, once
when he asked me
to come down to his bookstore in Monterey to lecture about
Kerouac, and the
other time for a few seconds in Washington Square Park in
New York, when I
gave him a free ticket to the Beat Conference Town Hall
Concert.
If they're supporting me, they're doing
it from conscience, since I
sure don't have
any money left (after 10 months of double litigation) to pay
them.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 19:10:08 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
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From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: A Note to the Peacekeepers
At 06:44 PM
5/26/97 -0400, Jerry wrote:
>Inaction is
as much of a statement as action is.
Hmm, I've been
holding off from getting off this list
for a couple daze
now, due to the lack of interesting
discussion (not
saying the Estate/Archive thread isn't
interesting, just
seems to be more hot air than anything
relevant). Now, we are being accused of not speaking
up/sticking up
enuff for members on this list. I find
this
quite
interesting, considering I don't see any innocent
parties in this
debate - why should I get "scolded" by
another list
member for keeping my peace? Chances
'r',
if we did open
up, we'd get attacked, yelled at, faces
rubbed in shit,
etc. If I choose to not partake in this
insanity, please
respect that decision.
>Every person
on this list is being party to keeping
>this thread
alive by allowing Anstee to get away unscathed
>with these
ridiculous assertions.
Insects may sing
-
But the Emmet in
silence
Shows us his
arse!
~Issa~
Hey Jerry, no
hard feelings just my honest opinion.
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 17:19:07 CDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Wes Lundburg
<wlundburg@MAIL.FF.CC.MN.US>
Subject: Re: To the Peacemakers...
Jerry wrote:
>
>Folks, I'm
embarrassed for you. How can you keep
silent allowing Anstee as
>well as Paul
Maher to say the things they're saying about Nicosia?
>
>It's one
thing to want to see peace on the list.
That's fine if that's what
>you really
want, but these guys are tossing everything but the kitchen sink
>at Nicosia
and you sit silent! You should be flooding the list with notes to
>Anstee
telling him how off base he is to bring private correspondance in to
>this!
>
>Every person
on this list is being party to keeping this thread alive by
>allowing
Anstee to get away unscathed with these ridiculous assertions. I
>think Gerry
has done remarkably well in maintaining his cool especially in
>light of Paul
Maher's vitriolic posts.
>
>Right is
right, people, regardless of what you may think about Nicosia or
>"his
cause".
>
>Inaction is
as much of a statement as action is.
>
Hello,
Jerry! Well, I'll tell you what: there's
a reason I never post anything
to Rod
Anstee. I still remember the crap he
threw at Ron Whitehead (not to
mention
others). He's a man with his own agenda,
and he does what strikes his
fancy... whether
anybody "puts up with it" or not.
Silence is not being party
to him. So, since my inaction is a statement, let the
statement be I won't be a
party to any of
it, nor will I let someone like Anstee dictate any of my actions
or
reactions. As I posted in an open letter
to Gerry Nicosia, I believe he's
made his point,
and made it well. The other guys are
just making asses out of
themselves... my
impression is that they like to make asses of themselves.
Why should I
waste my time posting to them? It won't
change anything they do.
Only reasonable
people listen to reasonable voices.
All the best,
---Wes
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 19:47:55 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alfred Lewen
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: A Note to the Peacekeepers
At 06:44 PM
5/26/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Folks, I'm
embarrassed for you. How can you keep
silent allowing Anstee as
>well as Paul
Maher to say the things they're saying about Nicosia?
>
>It's one
thing to want to see peace on the list.
That's fine if that's what
>you really
want, but these guys are tossing everything but the kitchen sink
>at Nicosia
and you sit silent! You should be flooding the list with notes to
>Anstee
telling him how off base he is to bring private correspondance in to
>this!
>
>Every person
on this list is being party to keeping this thread alive by
>allowing
Anstee to get away unscathed with these ridiculous assertions. I
>think Gerry
has done remarkably well in maintaining his cool especially in
>light of Paul
Maher's vitriolic posts.
>
>Right is
right, people, regardless of what you may think about Nicosia or
>"his
cause".
>
>Inaction is
as much of a statement as action is.
>
>
>Jerry Cimino
>
Cimino, It is one post I made that was
"vitriolic" in tone and that is
because I am sick
of Nicosia bringing my name into things. I refuse to let
this happen. I,
unlike you or anybody else seek no support for my cause. I
have no interest
whatsoever in winning over anybody but when Nicosia drags
my name over and
over I will be more than "vitriolic." It is none the less
deserving. You
doubt my veracity? You don't even know John Sampas or the
strategy of his
archival practices. Why do you have to take sides if that is
what we are
supposed to do?
Why don't you try
thanking me for placing an ad in my quarterly without pay?
Your posts won't
win you any support, only a lost customer base.....
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 19:32:54 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: A Note to the Peacekeepers
Mike, no hard
feelings at all. And I appreciate your
honest opinion. And
normally I'd say
not speaking up and not taking a position is fine. But when
people say things
like what Maher said and when people assert things like
Anstee has done
it is up to the rest of us to say "you've crossed the line".
I'm not asking
you to stand up and say Nicosia is right, just that many of
his detractors
are off base in what they're saying and the way they're saying
it.
Mike, If I were
to say to you the things that have been said to Nicosia by
his
"detractors" I would expect the good people on this list to call me
to
task for it.
Right is right. Nicosia may have alienated a lot of people
with the tone of
many of his
responses, but he does not deserve to be slammed the way he has
been. He's presented us with facts. All he's been met with is rancor and
unproved
assertions.
Mike, I respectfully
submit to you not taking a position when someone is
obviously being
slandered is taking a position.
Jerry C
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 20:00:19 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alfred Lewen
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Why We Shouldn't Study Kerouac
> I have also been called every name in
the book--the last set of
>volleys comes
from Paul Maher, Jr., another Sampas apologist,
whose claim
>to fame is to
have stolen fifty rare books on the raising of silk worms from
>the Mogan
Center, the same building leased by U Mass, Lowell, from which key
>parts of the
MEMORY BABE archive were also stolen.
I never sought
fame Mr. Nicosia for my actions. That is in your warped mind.
I am remorseful
and embarrassed about the thefts I committed seven years
ago. Your
pathetic attempt to embarrass me into a response is successful.
But again, you
reap what you sow. Your such a stupid creature. You wonder
why no one likes
you over here. Your under the pretense that if you come
from Lowell you
are somehow connected. John Sampas did not contribute
anything to my
newsletter. The piece in question was contributed by the late
Jay Pendergast
(by the way a true defintion of a scholar unlike my subject
matter here). I,
unlike you, had to go through the proper channels (i.e.
John Sampas) to
acquire permission to publish.
>
> Maher needs material for his new
Kerouac Quarterly, and from all
>appearances,
Sampas has been giving it to him.
******I need
nothing for my newsletter. I have enough material for the next
four issues all
from several submissions worldwide. Again, you are wrong.
> Good folks, I'm really tired of all
this bullshit. I plan one more
>post, later
today, to expose the absolutely FALSE CLAIM that the Jack
>Kerouac
Archive is in the New York Public Library already.
******Good luck
proving that because my info was xeroxed from NYPL stationery.
> Then I'm taking off for a while.
> There are some good people here who can
stick up for the
>truth--Jerry
Cimino, Joe Grant, and Bentz Kirby among others.
********Ah yes,
your loyal following, how long will it take before you burn
those bridges?
I think I will have John Sampas autograph my
copy of Memory Babe.....
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 19:57:24 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
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From: Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: To the Peacemakers...
Wes Lunburg
wrote:
>Why should I
waste my time posting to them. It won't
change anything they
do.
>Only
reasonable people listen to reasonable voices.
Hi Wes,
Thanks for your
candid response.
Wes, it's
precisely *because* so many people are weighing the various
psoitions and
gauging who is "right" and who is "wrong" that those of us
who
know Rod would
argue with a pineapple if it sat still long enough need to
make clear what
is really going on.
Many people,
especially if they're new to the list, read Rod's posts and
think "here
is a serious person making a serious charge" and they see a
handful of people
slugging it out and figure "each side is as bad as the
other only
worse". And when everyone keeps
silent because no one wants to
"take a
position" these insidious wars go on and on because people like Gerry
think no one is
hearing them or believing them because no one is responding
at all.
I think if
everybody on this list posted a note to Rod saying "Enough with
the ridiculous
charges! Show evidence or keep
quiet" maybe he'd think twice.
But what do we get instead? "Let's not talk about it." "This makes me
uncomfortable." "Take your little wars off-list,
boys". And what is the
result of
that? Anstee has effectively silenced
Nicosia which is exactly
what he
wants. And everyone of us on the list
has helped him do it by not
challenging him.
That's why we
should call him on the cheap shots and the non-issues. Because
silence is a
co-conspirator to the truth!
Jerry Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 17:02:30 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Not ashamed
Jerry
I am getting
tired of the theme that if we don't all rush to poor Mr.
Nicosia's defense
we are sort of like silent good Germans.
You and
Nicosia seem to
be in a minority that feel that this whole thing is a
one way
street. Go back and look through the
thread, I will turn on my
machine and there
are another seven or eight posts from GN. After days
of silence, not
doubt getting tired of listening to Nicosia's paranoid
view of the
world, eventually an Anastee, Chaput or Maher will respond,
(sometimes not
very temperatly, but there have been some very
informative posts
as well). Then GN will start again with his assertion
that everyone in
the Kerouac world but himself is a weak, excuse-making
pawn of John
Sampas, hiding their own self interest.
As far as I can
remember this
list includes Allan Ginsberg, Ann Charters, most of the
people in Lowell
and pretty much everyone else but Mr. Nicosia and
before her death
Jan Kerouac. Mr. Nicosia, of course, has
no self
interest. Then
you and Mr. Kirby wonder why not everyone is rushing to
poor Mr.
Nicosia's defense. Seems to me he does
fine on his own.
There seem to me
to be a few clear points
1. All the principles in this war have a serious
interest in and love
for Jacks work
2. They see things differently
3 This thing will be settled in the courts and
not here.
I am not ashamed
of myself. I think the list members have
on the whole
been very polite and deferential to Gerry. We have begged for him to
contribute to
real discussions of Kerouac, we have praised him for his
effort on Memory
Babe. But that doesn't mean we all are
ready to join
his crusade or
that we share his view of his opponents.
I will go back
to the good habit
I lost of just deleting anything on this thread. I
know that
whatever happens you and Attorney-at Law Kirby, Esq will be on
hand to genuflect
and hold Gerry's coat. I don't think my
mortal soul
is in danger on
this count, and if somewhere in Lowell there is a bar
with a dartboard
with GN's face on it, I would find it
pretty easy to
understand. But if the kitchen sink comes into play I
trust someone
will backchannel
me so I won't miss it.
J Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 20:20:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alfred Lewen
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Paul Maher
At 04:42 PM
5/26/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Paul, I gotta
tell ya buddy, you're showing your true colors with that last
>post of
yours. For a guy who three days ago said
he'd had enough and even
>sent a
message saying "unsubscribe" you sure have a whole lot to say about
>nothing.
>
>Paul, some of
us were hoping to keep the *debate* at a reasonable level
>during the
cease fire of the Memorial Day weekend.
Obviously you don't want
>to do your
part as evidenced by the general nastiness of your tone.
>
"Scholar?" Paul, I hardly
think so given the level to which you have sunk
>here.
****Whatever,
your assessment of my scholarship matters nothing to me. I
hardly think that
you are going to be on my Master's thesis committee.
>
>Say something
useful, Paul, instead of general namecalling!
I asked you a
>week ago why
you thought Gabrielle's signature was real as opposed to faked
>since you're
one of the few people on the list to have actually seen the
>will. Why can't you answer questions put to you?
Because I am not
required to.
I have seen the
will yes. I have also seen many documents (contracts for
foreign
publication rights etc. signed by Gabrielle Kerouac in the early
1970's)signed
after the will which are almost 100% the same. The only slight
change is the way
the "c"
at the end of Kerouac trails off. This is given to her invalid
state. On this
alone I came to my conclusion. There were other documents
that sealed my
decision that the will/forgery claim is a fraud. For
instance, what
made the signature look funny to Ms. Jan Kerouac anyways?
What is so funny
about the way an old woman who suffered a stroke signs her
name? Were they
humoring her disability? I mean...my grandmother writes me
letters and the
sig looks a little shaky but I have no reason to believe
it's
"funny." You are all sorely misled and someday the shadiness of the
situation will
brighten and the real "true colors" will be revealed. And by
the way I came
back on the list to post about my friend Jay Pendergast's
death who knew
Jack in the 1960's.. Don't flatter yourself thinking I wanted
to respond to
you. Signed vitriolicly, Paul...
>Jerry Cimino
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 17:07:34 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: New York Public Library (final post, this
time I mean it)
To all the good
and friendly folks on the Beat-List:
My final post; I'm turning in my
bullshit shovel.
But I want to clear up this lingering
myth--or more accurately,
cruel hoax--about
the Kerouac Archive being in the New York Public Library.
I work from the List printed by Paul
Maher, which purports to be the
latest list of
the New York Public Library's Kerouac holdings (I have a list
given me by NYPL
librarian Rodney Phillips two years ago, which has only a
few less things
on it). Not much has changed in two
years.
Let's start by getting one thing
straight: A COLLECTION IS NOT AN
ARCHIVE, and vice
versa.
The New York Public Library has a
Kerouac/Beat collection, which
they have been
building for years, by buying items from many different
people, including
many dealers.
Univ. of Texas, Austin, the Bancroft
Library (Berkeley), and
Stanford, among
others, also have Kerouac/Beat collections.
Even Rod Anstee has a Kerouac/Beat
collection. From what I have
seen, having
visited his house, Mr. Anstee's collection is bigger in sheer
bulk than the
Kerouac collection at the New York Public Library. Jan
Kerouac and I had
a private session at the NYPL, had the whole Kerouac
collection thrust
out on a desk before us, and it didn't take up much space.
What are Jack Kerouac's ten most important
published books?
I'm a Kerouac biographer, so let me
take a stab at this. I
nominate, in no
particular order:
1) ON THE ROAD
2) THE DHARMA BUMS
3) DR. SAX
4) THE SUBTERRANEANS
5) VISIONS OF GERARD
6) VISIONS OF CODY
7) VANITY OF DULUOZ
8) BIG SUR
9) DESOLATION ANGELS
10) MEXICO CITY BLUES
What does the New York Public Library
have of each of these?
1) ON THE ROAD was typed on a long
scroll of Japanese art paper. It
was retyped
several times, with major revisions. It
was worked over in
galleys. THE NEW YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY OWNS NONE OF THIS
MATERIAL, AND HAS
NEVER MADE ANY OF
THIS MATERIAL AVAILABLE FOR STUDY.
2) THE DHARMA BUMS was typed on a
scroll of teletype paper, retyped
several times,
reworked, and worked over extensively in galleys. THE NEW
YORK PUBLIC
LIBRARY OWNS NONE OF THIS MATERIAL, AND HAS NEVER MADE ANY OF
THIS MATERIAL
AVAILABLE FOR STUDY.
3) DR. SAX was written in pencil
notebooks; it was typed up; it was
worked over
editorially by Malcolm Cowley; there are presumably also galleys
for it. THE NEW YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY OWNS NONE OF THIS
MATERIAL, AND HAS
NEVER MADE ANY OF
THIS MATERIAL AVAILABLE FOR STUDY. They
do list the
presence of some
"notes for Dr. Sax" in their collection.
4) THE SUBTERRANEANS WAS TYPED ON A
ROLL OF TELETYPE PAPER, RETYPED
ON REGULAR PAGES
(which Jeffrey Weinberg saw, and says they are
"crumbling"),
and revised extensively in galleys to prevent libel suits from
Alene Lee (Mardou
Fox). THE NEW YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY OWNS
NONE OF THIS
MATERIAL, AND HAS
NEVER MADE ANY OF THIS MATERIAL AVAILABLE FOR STUDY.
5) VISIONS OF GERARD WAS WRITTEN IN
PENCIL NOTEBOOKS AND RETYPED ON
TO REGULAR
PAGES. I assume there were galleys but
don't know about the
amount of
revision. Suspect less revision because
Kerouac considered this a
"holy
book." THE NEW YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY
OWNS NONE OF THIS MATERIAL, AND
HAS NEVER MADE
ANY OF THIS MATERIAL AVAILABLE FOR STUDY.
6) VISIONS OF CODY was written in
pencil notebooks and also sections
of it were
typed. Some of it was drafted in letters
Kerouac wrote to his
friends (like the
letter to John Clellon Holmes which Mr. Anstee purchased
for his own
collection). It was retyped several
times, as the work
underwent the
editorial scrutiny of a number of people: Carl Solomon, Allen
Ginsberg, Malcolm
Cowley, et al. THE NEW YORK PUBLIC
LIBRARY OWNS NONE OF
THIS MATERIAL,
AND HAS NEVER MADE ANY OF THIS MATERIAL AVAILABLE FOR STUDY.
7) VANITY OF DULUOZ was typed on a
scroll of teletype paper and then
retyped on to
regular pages. Kerouac incorporated many
of his earlier
unpublished
writings and breastpocket notebook passages into the text. I do
not know the
extent of editorial changes. One would
assume there were, at
the very least,
marked galley proofs. THE NEW YORK
PUBLIC LIBRARY OWNS NONE
OF THIS MATERIAL,
AND HAS NEVER MADE ANY OF THIS MATERIAL AVAILABLE FOR STUDY.
8) BIG SUR was typed on a scroll of
teletype paper and then retyped
on to regular
pages. Kerouac used many breastpocket
notebooks for material,
which he
incorporated into the text. I assume
there were at least marked
galleys. THE NEW YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY OWNS NONE OF THIS
MATERIAL, AND HAS
NEVER MADE ANY OF
THIS MATERIAL AVAILABLE FOR STUDY.
9) DESOLATION ANGELS was both written
in notebooks and typed over a
period of several
years. It was then retyped on to regular
paper. Extent
of editorial
changes unknown. One assumes marked
galleys. THE NEW YORK
PUBLIC LIBRARY
HAS THE NOTEBOOKS TO SECTION 2, "PASSING THROUGH," WHICH IS
ONLY ABOUT
ONE-THIRD OF THE ENTIRE TEXT. IT HAS NO
ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT FOR
THE REMAINING
TWO-THIRDS OF THE TEXT, AND NO RETYPED PAGES FOR ANY OF THE
TEXT. NO GALLEYS.
THE PENCIL NOTEBOOKS FOR SECTION 2 ARE AVAILABLE FOR STUDY.
10) MEXICO CITY BLUES was written in
pencil notebooks and later
retyped. There was doubtless more than one typescript,
as this manuscript
circulated among
many different writers in both California and New York.
There were
certainly marked galleys, as this was a tough book to type-set
with lots of
neologisms and weird typography. THE NEW
YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY
OWNS THE PENCIL
NOTEBOOKS AND ONE TYPESCRIPT. THEY DO
NOT HAVE ALL THE
TYPESCRIPTS, AND
THEY DO NOT HAVE THE GALLEYS. THE
NOTEBOOKS AND
TYPESCRIPTS THEY
HAVE ARE AVAILABLE FOR STUDY.
So, the New York Public Library lacks
any paper trail for 8 of
Kerouac's 10 most
important published books; it has a very incomplete paper
trail for the 9th
book; and a somewhat better (but by no means complete)
paper trail for
the 10th. And if the MEXICO CITY BLUES
manuscript is the
completest, it is
rather curious to thank Mr. Sampas for it, since he was
preparing to sell
it to a private collector (according to Jeffrey Weinberg)
and--though
Weinberg is not completely sure--probably did sell it to a
private
collector, before it was resold to the NYPL.
WHAT ABOUT MAGGIE CASSIDY? A FINE NOVEL, IF NOT AMONG THE GREATS.
THE NEW YORK
PUBLIC LIBRARY HAS ONLY 45 pages in pencil, an UNUSED SECTION
OF
MANUSCRIPT. IT HAS NO PARTS OF THE
ACTUAL MANUSCRIPT, NOR THE RETYPED
VERSION, NOR THE
GALLEYS.
The NEW YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY also has NO
TRACE AT ALL OF MANY OF
KEROUAC'S VERY
IMPORTANT UNPUBLISHED BOOKS: THE SEA IS MY BROTHER, AND THE
HIPPOS WERE
BOILED IN THEIR TANKS!, MEMORY BABE, SECRET MULLINGS OF BILL,
VISIONS OF
LUCIEN, AND AN UNTITLED NOVEL ABOUT NICKY'S BAR IN LOWELL, etc.
IT HAS NO TRACE OFMANUSCRIPT FOR MANY
OF KEROUAC'S IMPORTANT
ARTICLES: THE
ORIGINS OF THE BEAT GENERATION; CITYCitycity; THE ESCAPADE
MAGAZINE PIECES,
ETC.
It has a lot of Kerouac's correspondence
with the Sampas family and
a few other
letters (MANY OF WHICH ARE XEROXED COPIES, ACCORDING TO THE LIST
LIBRARIAN RODNEY
PHILLIPS GAVE ME), but almost none of Kerouac's
correspondence
(carbon copies and drafts of his own letters, and letters
sent him) from
the HUNDREDS OF IMPORTANT WRITERS AND ARTISTS WITH WHOM
KEROUAC
CORRESPONDED.
IT DOES NOT HAVE THE HUNDREDS OF
FIVE-CENT BREAST-POCKET NOTEBOOKS
HE CARRIED IN HIS
SHIRT EVERY DAY, TO "SKETCH" THE THINGS HE SAW AND HEARD
ON A DAILY BASIS,
MOST OF WHICH NEVER FOUND THEIR WAY INTO ANY BOOK.
IT HAS NONE OF HIS BOYHOOD SELF-PRINTED
COMIC BOOKS AND NEWSPAPERS
AND OTHER
JUVENILE WRITINGS.
IT DOES NOT HAVE HIS SELF-CREATED HORSE
RACE AND BASEBALL GAMES.
IT HAS NONE OF HIS PHOTOGRAPHS.
IT HAS NONE OF HIS MANY PAINTINGS AND
DRAWINGS
IT HAS NONE OF HIS PRIVATE SCRAPBOOKS
OF NEWSPAPER CLIPPINGS,
CONCERNING HIS
SPORTS HEROICS AND BOOK REVIEWS.
IT HAS NONE OF HIS PERSONAL PAPERS,
REPORT CARDS, JOB APPLICATIONS,
PASSPORTS,
LAWSUIT PAPERS FOR CHILD SUPPORT, etc. etc.
IT HAS NONE OF THE HUNDREDS OF HOURS OF
TAPE RECORDINGS KEROUAC MADE.
IT HAS NONE OF HIS PERSONAL BOOKS, HIS
PRIVATE LIBRARY.
You're going to tell me that the Jack
Kerouac Archive is in the New
York Public
Library??? Come again.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 01:14:48 +0100
Reply-To: or205@hermes.cam.ac.uk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Olly Ruff
<or205@HERMES.CAM.AC.UK>
Subject: uneducated & illinformed
quasi-estate-post
after watching
several hundred estate postings go rolling by under the
delete-key, I
finally submit one myself. It's a slippery slope, they
say... :
first of all, I
like this thread, slanging matches & all. If nothing else,
it's probably
better that these things are thrashed out in public if
they're going to
be thrashed out at all. Moving it offlist wouldn't really
be true. I'm not
a car crash voyeur, but I like hearing what people have
to say...
relevant, polite, politic, political, friendly, supportive,
abusive,
warmongering, inane, whatever. I've learned a lot from all those
various
varieties.
also, I'm tending
towards the Gerry Nicosia side, albeit from a totally
uneducated point
of view. It's easy to get tied into a role in this kind
of discussion...
so there's Jerry & Gerry & misc. vs Rod & Phil & whoever
and it really
seems to get personal very easily, out of nobody's intention
& everybody's
fault. Case in point being Paul M... side-issues become the
main deal &
it's like being there while two opposing tables of lairily
drunk folks tilt
slowly but inexorably towards a fairly inefficient
fistfight.
M'self, I think
terms like "Sampas apologist" are a little too out
there... I'm not
sure that anyone knows anything much about the *other
side* (tones of
impending doom intended to be slightly ironic, before I
get pulverised)
& further, I think it's a little too easy to identify with
your opinions
until (point comin up soon, wait for it...) BY THIS POINT,
*EVERYONE* IS IN
THE POSITION OF THINKING THEY'RE DEFENDING THEMSELVES
AGAINST SOME
DEEPLY PERSONAL ATTACK...
I'm not trying to
sound like a selfstyled diplomat. Honest. I want
everyone to keep
speaking their minds... because that's the only way
anything gets
resolved, in the long run. The fact that it may take about
twenty years this
way is a minus, but perhaps endurable. It's entertaining
when people
majorly abuse others personally, but that probably slows
things down as
well...
Anyway, this'll
do for now. Seriously, I think Gerry Nicosia is an
inestimable
addition to the list, & things might be more mellow if
*everyone* just
stopped escalating things by getting personal... (of
course, if
anybody so much as raises an eyebrow at *anything* I've said in
this post I'll
find out where you live & have your fucking legs broken...)
(nb. that was a
joke)
Well, whatever.
Keep going, everyone.
Olly Ruff.
_______________________________________________________________________________
"Survival of
the... *fittest* ? Was that the proper word ? Had Darwin ever
considered the
idea of *temporary* unfitness ? Like "temporary insanity."
Could the Doctor
have made room in his theory for a thing like LSD ?"
_______________________________________________________________________________
or205@hermes.cam.ac.uk
skink@imrryr.org
_______________________________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 17:18:11 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Musing
My archive is
bigger than your archive
You show me your
archive and I'll show you mine.
How may
archivists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
(apparently a
lot, and even more if the lightbulb is xeroxed, and yet
more if there is
a lawyer present)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 20:40:47 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alfred Lewen
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: New York Public Library (final post,
this time I mean it)
Frpm what I
gathered, I never purported to type up a list of the Kerouac
archives...it was
a list of the things the Estate has either given as a gift
or sold to the
NYPL. Nicosia what's your point? Are you saying if it isn't
there it's sold?
What if he had it in safe deposit in Lowell? What business
of it is yours or
anybody's? It belongs to the family in principle and
legally. Even I,
who longs to see it as much as anybody else can understand
that. And there
is nothing xeroxed in there. Once again you are wrong.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 20:35:49 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
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From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Paul Maher
At 08:20 PM
5/26/97 -0400, Paul Maher wrote:
>I have seen
the will yes. I have also seen many documents
>(contracts
for foreign publication rights etc. signed by
>Gabrielle
Kerouac in the early 1970's)signed after the will
>which are
almost 100% the same. The only slight change is the
>way the
"c" at the end of Kerouac trails off. This is given to her
>invalid
state. On this alone I came to my conclusion. There
>were other
documents that sealed my decision that the
>will/forgery
claim is a fraud. For instance, what made the
>signature
look funny to Ms. Jan Kerouac anyways?
Paul,
Hmm, if you are
not a specialist in forensic science how can
you make this
judgement w/o any empirical data? This
goes for Jan's
challenge as well. I'm not sure if
anyone has
looked at said
signature, but by backing up your claim with
questioning Jan's
expertise on this matter, I believe you've
discredited your
own theory. What makes your theory hold
water? Is it that Gabrielle Kerouac was in an
"invalid state?"
Sounds like
hearsay to me. Show me the $ Paul!!
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 20:38:33 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Nick, uh, I mean Judith, uhh nick
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 26 May 1997 10:49:33 -0400
from <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Doesn't the
notion of "fair use" only apply to published sources?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 21:00:05 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Paul Maher <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Paul Maher
>
>Hmm, if you
are not a specialist in forensic science how can
>you make this
judgement w/o any empirical data? This
>goes for
Jan's challenge as well. I'm not sure if
anyone has
>looked at
said signature, but by backing up your claim with
>questioning
Jan's expertise on this matter, I believe you've
>discredited
your own theory. What makes your theory
hold
>water? Is it that Gabrielle Kerouac was in an
"invalid state?"
>Sounds like
hearsay to me. Show me the $ Paul!!
>
>Mike, i had
meant that the will being compared to G. Kerouac's hand writ
specimen before
her stroke is hardly proof or evidence. I never once said
mine was expert
testimony. i was asked so I answered and made an opinion.
Take it for what
it is worth. P.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 17:47:27 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: She-Ra <jennie42@ASU.EDU>
Subject: questions about Jack's death
While reading
Dharma Bums yesterday a good question happened into my
mind... Does
anyone think that one of the forces contributing to Jack's
alcoholism and
death was the internal conflict between his Buddhist and
Catholic
beliefs? I get the feeling that in his
old (not really, but
lack of better
word) age he was turning against all that he had done with
his life (shown
in his dislike for the pranksters and such).. perhaps he
was feeling
guilty, thus drank to lose feelings of guilt, and purposely
(as in leaving
los vegas) drank himself to death? a slow suicide? I'm
just wondering,
perhaps someone can help me out with this one?
jennie
******
jennie42@asu.edu ******
#28 There is no sin-
I know perfectly well
where I am
-Jack Kerouac
WE ARE SEARCHING
FOR RATIONAL
REASONS
FOR BELIEVING
IN THE ABSURD
-Harold Norse (from the poem
"Believing in the Absurd")
---------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 18:08:15 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Steve Smith a.k.a. Whiskey
Wordsmith" <psu06729@ODIN.CC.PDX.EDU>
Subject: Re: A Note to the Peacekeepers
In-Reply-To:
<970526184408_1955964541@emout09.mail.aol.com>
On Mon, 26 May
1997, Jerry Cimino wrote:
> Folks, I'm
embarrassed for you. How can you keep
silent allowing Anstee as
> well as Paul
Maher to say the things they're saying about Nicosia?
>
> It's one
thing to want to see peace on the list.
That's fine if that's what
> you really
want, but these guys are tossing everything but the kitchen sink
> at Nicosia
and you sit silent! You should be flooding the list with notes to
> Anstee
telling him how off base he is to bring private correspondance in to
> this!
>
> Every person
on this list is being party to keeping this thread alive by
> all
owing Anstee to
get away unscathed with these ridiculous assertions. I
> think Gerry
has done remarkably well in maintaining his cool especially in
> light of
Paul Maher's vitriolic posts.
>
> Right is
right, people, regardless of what you may think about Nicosia or
> "his
cause".
>
> Inaction is
as much of a statement as action is.
>
>
> Jerry Cimino
>
dear jerry and
all: i applaud the above--but remember that not all have
been silent about
such cheapjack shots at gerry; i posted yesterday (or
so) much the
same--just got a couple of lame "Buuuuuuut" messages in
response. go
ahead, in the spirit of levi and others, and "hold [nicosia]
to a higher
standard" because he is a world-class k. scholar. this is,
btw, the gist of
levi's post re: my anger at cheap shots gerry's way.
baloney, rancid
baloney. nobody should be held to a higher standard than
anybody else,
scholar or not. there's shit and then there's shit? nah,
just shit. it all
has the same low barnyard whiff.
posting personal
letters is waaaay out of line; yada yada yada--i'd like
to think jack and
the twisted living ghost of bill b. will very soon loom
up out of the red
darkness and rip the lungs out of the right (and wrong)
swine who scrunch
down in the muddy shadows of the whole $$$$$ For
Kerouac Gig! and
before some mutant includes nicosia as a $$$ For Kerouac
Guy, note that
$7500 bucks ain't blood gravey in anyone's book. for
chrise rake, he
was sellin' his own bio's archive--not peddling k's goods!
one day we'll all
have to meet to drink bombs in a nether lowell or
tangiers--and the
monsters will be sorted out and go directly to
shitholes in the
deepest circles of dante's condo complex.
love and fuses,
steve
Steve R. Smith
Graduate Teaching
Assistant
Department of
English
Portland State
University
Box 751 Portland,
OR 97207
503-725-3556
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 21:12:34 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: SAMPAS WHO? Re: a calm request
rinaldo,
First off, please don't be out off by
the Sampas name on 'kicks joy
darkness'. the CD
is well worth getting. Jim is the son of Stella's brother
Mike - john
Sampas is his uncle.
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 21:20:00 -0400
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From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Not Ashamed/Musing
James,
I don't agree
with a lot of what you say in your "not ashamed post" and I'm
glad YOU used the
"Good German" analogy and not me as I don't want to be
acused of calling
anyone a Nazi/"Adolph Hitler apologist" or anything else.
And I laughed out loud w/regard to your
lightbulb joke!
James, I'm not a
Nicosia groupie and I certainly don't genuflect at his
alter. Quite frankly I think Gerry is off base on
certain things. I wish he
wouldn't accuse
everybody who's ever heard of John Sampas as being in bed
with him. I think that's counter-productive and hurts
his cause and
alienates people
who could otherwise be his allies.
The point though,
James, is Nicosia is inextricably intertwined with the
cause of Saving
Jack's Archives. You and many others
obviously don't think
that is a good
thing, but I do and Nicosia is the only person doing anything
about it. He's leading the charge! I don't see anybody else raising their
hand to do
it. I certainly couldn't do it even if I
wanted to try. And I
don't think there
is one other person out there who could.
With Jan dead
there is no one
else. Nicosia is it, whether anyone
(including him!) likes
it or not.
And you'll note,
James, I didn't ask anyone to stand up for Nicosia. I asked
people to put Rod
in his place with regard to making false and/or
unsubstantiated
claims. There is a difference.
Like I said I
don't agree with everything Gerry says or does but I do think
he's right to try
to save Jack's Archives.
Jerry Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 21:19:08 EDT
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From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Beat-l
Enough is
enough. Sure, the Kerouac Estate is meat
for discussion but
this listdoes NOT
exist for listmembers to curse at each other and
insult one
another personally. If you want to do
this, I'll say again,
TAKE IT OFF THE
LIST!
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 21:33:47 -0400
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From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: A Note to the Peacekeepers
Steve/Whisky,
I noted your
response to Levi' post the other day. I
was heartened to see
it, but posts
like yours have been few and far between as we all know.
Frankly, I was
also heartened to see Levi's post as well.
I thought it was a
very well
reasoned and impassioned plea to Gerry to recognize people Gerry
percieves as
enemies aren't necessarily out to hurt him.
I personally think
that is the case
with both Levi and Atilla. Just because
Dharma Beat accepts
an ad from
Viking/Penguin does not mean Atilla is in bed w/Sampas as Gerry
seems to
think. I can say that from my
perspective, but I can also
understand
Gerry's perspective as well.
When my wife and
I owned our coffeehouse/bookstore and were losing our shirts
it was very easy
for us to view our regular customers who walked in with a B.
Dalton's bag full
of books or a Starbuck's cup of coffee as "disloyal" who
didn't give a
damn about us and our business. We
learned very quickly that
people will
always do what is in their own best interest.
We all do that.
And if somebody could save a few bucks by
going to B. Dalton or if
Starbuck's
happened to be closer to where they were when they got the urge
for a cup of
coffee, they weren't doing anything against us... they were just
doing what they
thought was best for them.
And that's how I
view Atilla taking advertising from Viking.
That doesn't
have to make him
Gerry's enemy. But take it from one who
knows, when you're
in the heat of
battle, anyone who isn't shooting in the same direction as you
is the
enemy! Maybe it shouldn't be that way,
but it's human nature that it
is.
Jerry Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 18:43:08 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Not Ashamed/Musing
Jerry Cimino
wrote:
>
> James,
>
> I don't
agree with a lot of what you say in your "not ashamed post" and I'm
> glad YOU
used the "Good German" analogy and not me as I don't want to be
> acused of
calling anyone a Nazi/"Adolph Hitler apologist" or anything else.
> And I laughed out loud w/regard to your lightbulb
joke!
>
> James, I'm
not a Nicosia groupie and I certainly don't genuflect at his
> alter. Quite frankly I think Gerry is off base on
certain things. I wish he
> wouldn't
accuse everybody who's ever heard of John Sampas as being in bed
> with
him. I think that's counter-productive
and hurts his cause and
> alienates
people who could otherwise be his allies.
>
> The point
though, James, is Nicosia is inextricably intertwined with the
> cause of
Saving Jack's Archives. You and many
others obviously don't think
> that is a
good thing, but I do and Nicosia is the only person doing anything
> about
it. He's leading the charge! I don't see anybody else raising their
> hand to do
it. I certainly couldn't do it even if I
wanted to try. And I
> don't think
there is one other person out there who could.
With Jan dead
> there is no
one else. Nicosia is it, whether anyone
(including him!) likes
> it or not.
>
> And you'll
note, James, I didn't ask anyone to stand up for Nicosia. I asked
> people to
put Rod in his place with regard to making false and/or
>
unsubstantiated claims. There is a
difference.
>
> Like I said
I don't agree with everything Gerry says or does but I do think
> he's right
to try to save Jack's Archives.
>
> Jerry Cimino
Jerry,
I agree with you
more than you think. I think the real
problem is that
Gerry is so damn
conspiracy driven that he fatally hurts his own cause.
I've always said,
he may well be right, but he loses all credibity with
me by the
"in bed" with SAmpas think.
Let him win in court. He isn't
going to court
against Anastee or Maher but the Sampas family.
l hope
there is an
archive, but I doubt it will happen, because as I said
earlier that as
long as Sampas and Lash control 2/3's I don't see how
anyone will be
able to work with Nicosia. It would have
to be his way
or the
highway. Maybe I read him wrong, but he
certainly doesn't come
off as capable of
compromising with the Sampas people at all.
In his last
backchannel to me he was explaining to me how essentially he
is responsible
for everything Ann Charters knows about Jack.
She speaks
respectfully of
him, he can't mention her without remembering that she
didn't take his
side with Jan. Maybe Jan was an angel,
or maybe she was
hard to deal
with--I don't know, but it seems to me that Ann's failure
to join Jan's
cause doesn't just wipe out her biographical and editing
achievements.
Frankly, I keep
vowing to shut up and only post things like Mitchell's.
James
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 21:51:27 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
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From: Rod Anstee <Nastees@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Memory Babe Archive
In a message
dated 97-05-26 14:03:18 EDT, you write:
> NONE OF THE XEROXES I SOLD TO LOWELL
WERE THE PROPERTY OF OTHER
LIBRARIES. GOT THAT?
>
Sorry, I'm still
confused here Gerry. Are you saying that amongst the stuff
you transferred
to the library in Lowell in 1987, there was absolutely no
material that was
the property of other libraries, or are you saying that the
part you
"sold" was free of this class of material, and that any material of
this kind was
simply "donated" instead. You know that there WAS material of
this sort in the
archive, or at least back then you indicated as such -- some
people seem to
get upset when I quote directly from your letters from 1987,
so without
quoting directly this time, I can refer to another letter in which
you specifically
mentioned, for example, that your copies of the JK/Cowley
letters had been
transferred to Lowell amongst the rest of the archive. As
you know, that
material (in original form) has a home in the Newberry
Library. Are you
saying now that the Cowley letter (xeroxes) were never
transferred? The
date on the letter I'm not going to quote from is 25
October, 1987.
Was your statement about them in that letter wrong?
Unfortunately we
weren't discussing the JK/AG correspondence at the time, so
I have no
contemporary references to them.
CHEERS Rod (Yes,
soccer went well, thanks.)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 21:47:30 -0400
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: 10 most important
1) ON THE ROAD
2) THE DHARMA BUMS
3) DR. SAX
4) THE SUBTERRANEANS
5) VISIONS OF GERARD
6) VISIONS OF CODY
7) VANITY OF DULUOZ
8) BIG SUR
9) DESOLATION ANGELS
10) MEXICO CITY BLUES
I like Satori
(sp?) in Paris.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 21:50:58 -0400
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: New York Public Library (final post,
this time I mean it)
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
> <snip the
whole thing>
> Best always, Gerry Nicosia
Damn, that was an
informative post, whatever the motivation, Gerry, I
hope you will not
unsubscribe. I would like to know
more. Just get a
thicker
skin. Please.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 22:00:17 -0400
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From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: Letter to Mayo
Bentz,
Gerry has already pointed out that it
was not Mayo who negotiated
the purchase from
Gerry.
* "In a way
I am quite surprised, in retrospect, that Martha Mayo agreed to
* purchase these
in the first place, knowing that many of them (originals) are
* the property of
other libraries."
I believe Gerry has intimated -
although Rod pushed the point in a
leter post - that
the Columbia letter was not part of the purchase/donation.
* He goes on to then state that Gerry Nicosia
* sold to your
library a photocopy of a letter from Jack Kerouac to Allen
* Ginsberg dated
April 8, 1952 even though it has the instructions on it
that the
* copy is to be
returned to Columbia University.
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 21:56:14 -0400
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: Nick, uh, I mean Judith, uhh nick
Bill Gargan
wrote:
> Doesn't the
notion of "fair use" only apply to published sources?
I don't know about copyright law and am asking
for those who do to
enlighten us.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 22:01:44 -0400
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From: Rod Anstee <Nastees@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Post on Archives
In a message
dated 97-05-26 15:25:25 EDT, you write:
>" But no
xerox that was owned by another library was
>included in
the body of material that was finally transferred to U Mass,
>Lowell.
>
Ah, since he makes this statement with crystal
clarity, why pussyfoot
around!? Here's
what Gerry wrote to me 25 October, 1987:
"I didn't
get time to go through the Cowley letters which are now on deposit
in Lowell, at the
U. of Lowell, but will remain a locked collection till
Martha Mayo gets
it all catalogued."
I fear it's a con