=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:55:40 -0700
Reply-To: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: Wall Street Journal 'n Fruity Pebbles
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<<ahem>>
and we could all use a good editor too...
not the new
york times ..... but the Wall Street Journal
sorry to
waste bandwidth on the correction.
Douglas
>----------
>From: Penn, Douglas, K
>Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 1997 9:29 AM
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Subject: RE: Wall Street Journal 'n Fruity Pebbles
>
>
>and it
goes to show that if you can't keep a good dog down in life, you sure
>can
kick em a few times in death. fuck the
new york times.
>
>Douglas
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 18:54:39 +0200
Reply-To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: (FWD) q: ranaldo & a: burroughs,
9 april 97
In-Reply-To:
<970812013625_1848781656@emout01.mail.aol.com>
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At 01.36
12/08/97 -0400,
Pamela
Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM> wrote:
>In a
message dated 97-08-12 01:01:05 EDT, you write:
>
><< WSB:
Well, you'll notice more subdivisions now as it's modernized
> >
and is no longer cheap
>
> Sharp
as a razor. >>
>
>In
every direction we look....
>
>C.Plymell
>
ENTIA NON SUNT MULTIPLICANDA
PRAETER NECESSITATEM...
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 10:12:47 -0700
Reply-To: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: who's who?
Comments:
To: "Shannon L. Stephens" <shanstep@CS.ARIZONA.EDU>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:55 AM
8/12/97 -0700, you wrote:
>I'm
still working on "On the Road," and have a character question.
>Don't
jump all over me for this...if it screams ignorance...chalk it up
>to
unfamiliarity. Who is Remi...and subsequently Lee Ann?
>
>-shannon
>
>
Henri Cru,
as I recall, friend of kerouac from Horace Mann prep school.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 10:25:30 -0700
Reply-To: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: (FWD) q: ranaldo & a: burroughs,
9 april 97
Comments:
To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
MIME-Version:
1.0
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text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Rinaldo,
you are such a tease. Somebody please
translate?
Douglas
>----------
>From: Rinaldo Rasa[SMTP:rinaldo@GPNET.IT]
>Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 1997 9:54 AM
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Subject: Re: (FWD) q: ranaldo & a: burroughs,
9 april 97
>
> ENTIA NON SUNT MULTIPLICANDA
> PRAETER NECESSITATEM...
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 14:48:57 -0600
Reply-To: Sorted <junky@BURROUGHS.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sorted <junky@BURROUGHS.NET>
Subject: burroughs.net, asking permissions,
possibly some other meanderings
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
to whom it
may concern,
i've shut
down burroughs.net indefinitely...in its place is a photo of wsb
with the
dreamachine, his dates on this planet, and a link to some site
info...site
info is two short paragraphs as to what's going on, a short
list of
other burroughs sites (Levi's, Luke's, Malcolm's, and Critter's),
as well as
what i'm hoping is a pretty complete index of the recent news
articles on
his death, and another index of the tribute and memorial sites
popping
up...@
http://www.burroughs.net/
...his
death has not really hit me yet, i think. i felt a need to shut down
the site,
and i feel as if the last week+ has been spent on some mutated
form of
acid, what with all the event cracking my head open across that
time,
there's no other possible explanation other than this is just not
real.
but of
course, it is....
One thing i
have been thinking about recently is possibly taking the posts
to this
list about WSB's death and influence and archiving them on
burroughs.net,
sort of a memorial of my own, wanting to show what he and
his work
meant to so many people...please let me know what you all think
about
this...
(and, maybe
to ease some minds, i make no money from this site...been
running it
for over two years and not made one dime, in fact lost a bunch
of $ when i
registered the domain...so for those suspecting me of
profiting,
nah. i just love the man and his work. maybe this whole
paragraph
was unnecessary; maybe not.)
Seeing as
this has to do with almost all of you, i'd appreciate as many
responses
as i can get, either privately or over the list. I really would
like to do
this, but i won't go ahead without talking to you first...
thanks,
-zach.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 16:58:16 EDT
Reply-To: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: FDA
Next thing
you know they'll try to regulate sperm.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 18:28:32 +0000
Reply-To: letabor@cruzio.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is
<letabor@mail.cruzio.com>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: Burroughs Obit
Date
sent: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:22:24
-0700
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@cruzio.com>
To:
"BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
hmmm. No
one offering to translate this interesting obit from Der
Spiegel?
Well, my
credentials to attempt it ain't exactly impeccable.
Sure,learning
wasintense when you were trying to figure out what the Waffen SS
men were saying was
Waffen SS
men were saying to each other. Subsequent living in Muenchen for half
a year helped,
especially
the loving attention of Herma "dein Munchener kindl" in the
only
language she knew helped broaden content and style. My new friend
old Herr
Doctor Karl Hagenmueller helped with pointers about grammar
etc, but
that was over fifty years ago, and soon forgotten. Never did
bother to
get a german dictionary since, but I did get the gist of
it. Amazing
how things come back. I thought some of you would like to
get a look
at what Der Spiegel had to say. If you are curious and not too
worried
about total accuracy, read on.
Words that
I knew stomped me I enclosed in brackets followed by a ?. The
writer of
the obit is not identified.
Here it
goes:
OBITUARY
William S.
Burroughs
Naturally
one could talk with Bill Burroughs about literature, as well
as about
polishing of furniture, or pop music, because he was a
gracious
person. His shuffling, monotonous voice betrayed a cultivated
disinterest.
But when the conversation turned to weapons, it took on
color.
Then it
became clear: not a doyen of the american underground, or
head of the
punks, or member of the respected academy, but Marshall in
Dodge City
- that would well have been his darling role. That or the
scoundrel
at the other end of the street. Drawing the line between good
and bad
didn't interest him particularly. Presence of wit, that's what it came
to for him.
William S.
Burroughs knew how to pick up (?) unique (?) illusionless
qualities.
"I could always take up(?) with doc Holliday", he
said at a
shooting practice at his ranch in Kansas. (??)
Bill
Burroughs, the farthest out avant-garde that american literature
produced in
this century, was at the same time as american as
cornflakes.
He was a member of the arch reactionary "National Rifle
Association"
and felt comfortable under the rednecks in Kansas, where he
died last
week at age 83 of heart failure.
He knew the
myths and legends about the o.k. corral inside out, and
before he
was inducted in the temple and seminar halls of literary
scholarship,
he resided in the cosmos of the penny notebooks. He was
Harvard
reared with a passion for the trivial. The crownprince of an
industrial
family, who was at home in the fixers (junkies?) scenes of
New
Orleans, London and Tanger. He was a remarkable buttoned up traveller with a
love
for dirt
and trash of all kinds. THe was also gay. Basically
Burroghs
was the nightmare of american society - because he came from
its
innermost midst.
He
functioned as a stranger in the beatnik circles around Ginsberg and
Kerouac,
whom he got to know in the middle of the forties. There is
hardly a
photo of these early years in which he smiles, and so his face
remained a
shocked Buster-Keaton look at
the bad
play of the century. He was married
twice. His
first wife
was a german jewish woman, whom he enabled to emigrate
through the
marriage. The second wife he shot during a drug party. It
could never
be clarified without a doubt whether the accident was in
fact an
accident. Shortly after the deed Burroughs gave a deposition
(testimony?
confession?) which he later retracted.
Still, the
scandal lent him a sinister luster, which later made him a black
romantic
pop-icon: He was the writer outlaw, the pistol hero with a
typewriter,
who didn't worry particularly over the laws, whether they
applied to
life or to literature.
Already as
a youth Burroughs dreamt about a literary career for
absolutely
nonliterary reasons. He wanted to write, "because writers
were rich
and famous, hung around in Singapore and Rangoon, wore yellow
silk suits,
smoked opium or hashish in the native quarters of Tangier and
patted a
tame gazelle".
He got it,
the drugs and the gazelles and later the fame and riches, but
it was a
long road to that, and his sheer longevity belongs to his most
amazing
achievements. For decades he hung on the needle, he climbed
out and got
back in and back out and back into other drugs, and he
(strapazierte)?
(punished)? his body to the limit. Yet when he died he
had
outlived most of his fellow treavelers, Ginsberg and Neal Cassady and
Timothy
Leary and
Kerouac anyway.
His debut
novel "Junkie" which appeared 1953 as a cheap paperback, a
book about
the logistics of the scoring of drugs, the horror of cold
withdrawals,
was his most readable book. Still he became famous through
the
phantasmagories from "Naked Lunch" (1959), that obscene,
halucinogenic
penny novel about Dr. "Fingers" Schafer, "Lobotomy Kid"
and William
Lee, that is at the same time a satire of society gone
too far.
About the
invention of the famous cut-up method that was employed
in it for
the first time, there are various versions in circulation,
and one of
these, not the least likely, is banal. In drugged dimness, in
the middle
of strewn about manuscript pages, in a hotel room he supposedly was
staring
at his
feet, when Ginsburg dusted those up and stapled the unsorted
texts
together. Later Burroughs found the
accidental sort most highly
interesting.
Thereupon he cut the pages and put them together anew.
"Naked
Lunch" became subject to scandal because of its pornographic
passages,
and because of its neologisms and Hieronymus-Bosch-visions it
became a
quarry for pop groups, who borrowed their
names from
it and from following novels, "Steely Dan" or "Soft
Machine",
and other
groups named their music "Heavy Metal".
Still,
Burroghs hardly interested himself in the entire Rock theater. He
was no
world improver like Ginzberg, no dionysian visionary like
Kerouac.
Deep inside he held the Beatnik-pose and the following
Pop-pretense
good for kid stuff..
He lived
his last years disciplined. He got up early, fed the cats,
wrote. He
never took the first vodka before four o'clock in the
afternoon.
Now and then he visited his old weapons-brother Fred, to
shoot.
He was the
Deputy Marshall, and he held up a long time, until in
the end it
caught him (?).
DER SPIEGEL
33/1997
Well, I did
give it a try.
leon
>
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 14:18:05
EDT
>
Reply-to: Fred Bogin <FDBBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>
From: Fred Bogin
<FDBBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>
Organization: Brooklyn College Library
>
Subject: Burroughs Obit
>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
Attached is a Burroughs obit from this week's German magazine, Der
>
Spiegel. (http://www.spiegel.de) I
replaced the umlauted letters by
> ae,
oe, ue, etc. to make it readable.
>
> Fred
>
>
>
>
>
NACHRUF
>
>
William S. Burroughs
>
> 1914
bis 1997
>
>
Natuerlich konnte man mit Bill Burroughs auch ueber Literatur
> reden
oder ueber Moebelpolitur oder Popmusik, denn er war ein
>
hoeflicher Mensch. Seine schleppende, monotone Stimme verriet
>
kultiviertes Desinteresse. Doch wenn das Gespraech auf Waffen
> kam,
gewann sie an Farbe.
>
> Dann
wurde klar: Nicht Doyen des amerikanischen Underground oder
> Pate
des Punks oder respektiertes Akademie-Mitglied, sondern
>
Marshall in Dodge City - das waere wohl seine Lieblingsrolle
>
gewesen. Das oder der Schurke am anderen Strassenende. Die
>
Grenzen zwischen Gut und Boese haben ihn ohnehin nie sonderlich
>
interessiert. Geistesgegenwart, darauf kam es ihm an.
>
>
William S. Burroughs wusste die eigenen Qualitaeten illusionslos
>
einzuschaetzen. "Mit Doc Holliday koennte ich es noch allemal
>
aufnehmen", sagte er bei einer Probeschiesserei auf seiner Ranch
> in
Kansas.
>
> Bill
Burroughs, die aeusserste Avantgarde, die sich die
>
amerikanische Literatur in diesem Jahrhundert leistete, war
>
gleichzeitig so amerikanisch wie Cornflakes. Er war Mitglied der
>
erzreaktionaeren "National Rifle Association" und fuehlte sich
> wohl
unter den Rednecks in Kansas, wo er vorvergangene Woche
>
83jaehrig an Herzversagen starb.
>
> Er
kannte die Mythen und Legenden um den O. K. Corral in- und
>
auswendig, und bevor er in die Tempel und Seminarraeume der
>
Literaturwissenschaftler einzog, bewohnte er den Kosmos der
>
Groschenhefte. Er war der Harvard-Zoegling mit Leidenschaft fuer
> das Triviale. Der Kronprinz einer Industriellenfamilie, der in
> den
Fixerszenen von New Orleans, London und Tanger zu Hause war.
> Er war
ein merkwuerdig zugeknoepfter Reisender mit der Vorliebe
> fuer
Schmutz und Schund aller Art. Zudem war er schwul. Im Grunde
> war
Burroughs der Alptraum der amerikanischen Gesellschaft - weil
> er aus
ihrer innersten Mitte stammte.
>
> In den
Beatnik-Zirkeln um Ginsberg und Kerouac, die er Mitte der
>
vierziger Jahre kennenlernte, wirkte er wie ein Fremder. Es gibt
> selbst
in diesen fruehen Jahren kaum ein Foto, auf dem er
>
laechelt - und so blieb sein Gesicht eine unerschuetterliche
>
Buster-Keaton-Miene zum boesen Spiel des Jahrhunderts. Er
>
heiratete zweimal. Die erste Frau war eine deutsche Juedin, der
> er mit
der Ehe die Einwanderung ermoeglichte. Die zweite Frau
>
erschoss er waehrend einer drogenberauschten Party. Restlos
> konnte
nie geklaert werden, ob der Unfall tatsaechlich ein Unfall
> war.
Burroughs gab kurz nach der Tat ein Gestaendnis ab, das er
>
spaeter widerrief.
>
> Der
Skandal jedoch verlieh ihm jenen duesteren Glanz, der ihn
>
spaeter zur schwarzromantischen Pop-Ikone machte: Er war der
>
schriftstellernde Outlaw, der Revolverheld mit der
> Schreibmaschine, der sich um die Gesetze nicht sonderlich
>
kuemmerte, weder um die des Lebens noch um die der Literatur.
>
> Schon
als Junge hatte Burroughs von einer literarischen Karriere
> aus
absolut ausserliterarischen Gruenden getraeumt. Er wollte
>
schreiben, "weil Schriftsteller reich und beruehmt waren, in
>
Singapur und Rangun herumhingen, gelbe Seidenanzuege trugen und
> Opium
rauchten oder Haschisch in den Vierteln der Einheimischen
> von
Tanger und dabei eine zahme Gazelle streichelten".
>
> Er hat
es gehabt, das Rauschgift und die Gazellen und spaeter den
> Ruhm
und den Reichtum, doch es war ein langer Weg dahin, und zu
> den
erstaunlichsten Leistungen Burroughs' gehoert wohl seine
>
schiere Langlebigkeit. Jahrzehntelang hing er an der Nadel, er
> stieg
aus und wieder ein und wieder aus und stieg um auf andere
> Drogen
und strapazierte seinen Koerper bis an die Grenze. Doch
> als er
starb, hatte er die meisten seiner Weggefaehrten
>
ueberlebt, Ginsberg und Neal Cassady und Timothy Leary und
>
Kerouac sowieso.
>
> Sein
Debuet-Roman "Junkie" erschien 1953 als billiges Paperback,
> ein
Hoellenbuch ueber die Logistik der Drogenbeschaffung, den
> Horror
der kalten Entzuege, wohl sein lesbarstes Buch. Beruehmt
> wurde
er jedoch durch die Phantasmagorien aus "Naked Lunch"
>
(1959), diesem obszoenen, halluzinogenen Groschenroman um Dr.
>
"Fingers" Schafer, "Lobotomy Kid" und William Lee, der
zugleich
> eine
ueberbordende Gesellschaftssatire ist.
>
> Ueber
die Erfindung der darin zum ersten Male angewandten
>
beruehmten Cut-up-Methode sind verschiedene Versionen im Umlauf,
> und
eine davon, nicht die unwahrscheinlichste, ist banal. Im
>
Drogendaemmer, inmitten zerfledderter Manuskriptseiten, soll er
> in
einem Hotelzimmer auf seine Fuesse gestarrt haben, als
>
Ginsberg ihn aufstoeberte und die Texte wahllos zusammenstapelte.
>
Spaeter fand Burroughs die Zufallsreihung hoechst interessant.
>
Daraufhin zerschnitt er die Seiten und puzzelte sie neu zusammen.
>
>
"Naked Lunch" wurde wegen seiner pornographischen Passagen zum
>
Skandalerfolg und wegen seiner Neologismen und
>
Hieronymus-Bosch-Visionen zum Steinbruch fuer Popgruppen, die aus
> ihm
und den Folgeromanen ihre Namen entliehen, "Steely Dan" oder
>
"Soft Machine", und andere Gruppen nannten ihre Musik "Heavy
>
Metal".
>
> Doch
Burroughs interessierte sich kaum fuer das ganze
>
Rocktheater. Er war kein Weltverbesserer wie Ginsberg, kein
>
dionysischer Schwaermer wie Kerouac. Tief im Innersten hielt er
> die
Beatnik-Pose und das nachfolgende Pop-Getue wohl fuer
>
Kinderkram.
>
> Seine
letzten Jahre lebte er diszipliniert. Er stand frueh auf,
>
fuetterte die Katzen, schrieb. Den ersten Wodka genehmigte er
> sich
nie vor vier Uhr nachmittags. Ab und zu besuchte er seinen
> alten
Waffenbruder Fred, um zu schiessen.
>
> Er war
der Deputy-Marshall, und er hat sich lang gehalten, bis es
> ihn
endlich doch noch erwischte.
>
> DER SPIEGEL 33/1997
> -
>
>
>
Leon Tabory
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 21:47:47 -0400
Reply-To: "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: Village Voice obit.
Reply to message from WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET of Mon, 11 Aug
>
>This week's issue of the Voice carried a full page obit on Burroughs
>with articles by David Ulin and C. (I assume Lucien's son Caleb) Carr.
I was just flipping through teh issue with the Ginsberg memorial stories &
also noticed an article by this C. Carr....& wondered if he (or she?) was
related to Lucien.
Diane.
--
Diane M. Homza <---Professional Rebound Girl!
2 Years Experience; References Are Avaliable! ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
"I can't imagine how I ever thought my love might make a difference to him."
--Richard Powers, _The Gold Bug Variations_
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 22:13:38 -0400
Reply-To: Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Was Burroughs really a beat writer?
In-Reply-To: <9708121837.aa12617@mail.cruzio.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Heard an interesting argument recently in discussions about Burroughs
life. It was argued that Bill Burroughs was not really a beat writer.
Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg and most of the other beat writers, saw
their literary efforts as part of a religious mission, a search for faith
as it were. Most of them were into eastern religions and philosphies and
the ideas of finding peace in mind spirit, and soul.
Bill Burroughs hadno such mission in his writings, he was totally anti-
religion, anti-society, anti-everything. Burroughs, it is argued, was
not idealistic, had no hopes of changing the world or acheiving greater
purposes with his writing.
He was a total libertarian who had no use for most people, and for muchof
the world. Kerouac was an explorer, he traveled to experience and to
write about his experiences. Burroughs traveled to find drugs so he
could escape from the world, NOT write about it. Jack Kerouac dreamed of
his hometown and yearned to find new ways to write about and understand
his past. Burroughs lived in exile most of his life, desperately trying
to convince himself that the world he knew knew outside of Tangier, or
wherever he was living, didnt exsist.
Burroughs was a great writer, therefore, but has he been inaccurately
cast as a beat writer because of his friendship with Kerouac and Allen
Ginsberg?
RJW
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 19:19:09 -0700
Reply-To: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Bill faces judgement
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
At least the Wall Street Journal article tried to be funny
("an insult to nullity" ... yeah, yeah). Really, it's
their job to insult people like Burroughs, and I'm only
glad the Wall Street Journal didn't suddenly decide to
embrace Burroughs and call him a genius. Then I'd really
worry. Like when Bill Gates suddenly embraces Microsoft.
I prefer to see my adversaries standing across the street,
not to feel their arms around my back.
Here are two more "tributes" to Burroughs, one from
the Black Mountain poet Robert Creeley, who's now teaching
at SUNY Buffalo, and one from Carolyn Cassady, the longtime
wife of Neal and frequent Kerouac fictional character.
I emailed both of them asking for spontaneous tributes,
so don't blame them if you don't like their words, blame
me, because I'm the one who asked!
I also wrote to a few other people who were likely to
have interesting memories ... if more write back, I'll keep
posting them.
This is what Robert Creeley wrote back:
****************************************************************
"Here's a brief sense of what I quickly remember apropos
Bill Burroughs. I can't now recall just who had told me -- like
peripheral gossip -- but sometime in the early '50s I heard of someone
who'd written a 1000 plus page ms with the only objective action being a
neon sign going off/on over a store one could see (in the novel) across
the street, etc, and of someone else who had killed his wife
acidentally, attempting to shoot a glass off her head with gun he said
later characteristically undershot. That was Kerouac and Bill Burroughs
respectively, though for a time I reversed them not yet knowing either.
In SF in the mid-fifties, and meeting (though he said we'd met briefly
in '49) Allen, he gave me the Yage ms to read, which fsscinated me --
and you'll know I printed "from Naked Lunch, Book III" in the Black
Mountain Review No. 7 (last issue with Allen a contributing editor and
stuff from Jack, Edward Marshall's great poem "Leave the Word Alone."
Cubby Selby, Phil Whalen, Gary Snyder, Mike McClure, Joel Oppenheimer,
WC Williams, Ed Dorn, Edward Dahlberg, Zukofsky, Denise Levertov --
etc.) I was also fellow contributor for the Big Table business -- and I
remember writing a statement in support when Naked Lunch was to be
published by Grove.
We didn't meet, however, untl some years later, must have been at least
the mid-sixties, when he was living in London and I was there for
something or other, and John and Bettina Calder had a party variously
honoring various writers, particularly Burroughs. We were both John's
"authors" at that point and I was staying with the Calders. Alex
Trocchi was a good friend and he too was much involved. Anyhow I
remember making the classic gauche comment when we're introduced, saying
I was stunned with the pleasure of being able to say how much I
respected his work etc etc, and then stumbling on to ask whether or no
he was thinking to stay in London, etc etc -- to all of which he replied
briefly, dryly, yes, no -- etc. In confusion I grabbed Ed Dorn who was
there, and pulled him over to introduce him. Instantly Burroughs
brightened, asking Ed about a recent piece of Ed's in the Paris Review
-- and how he'd managed the montage, etc. In short, this was work and
had substance -- not just banal social blather.
Thankfully I saw him again quite frequently over the years, and got past
my school boy admiration (though never entirely). Anyhow we'd meet most
frequently on the road and I liked his droll humor and clarity, call it,
always. One time after a talk at Naropa wherein he had recounted his
experiences with a device he'd assembled permitting one to track by
thought "traces" or manifests of the physical entiry itself (he said
he'd found one of his cats who'd got lost), he was bemused that none of
the young had asked afterwards how to actually make the device, despite
he had emphasized that all the necessary components could be got at any
place like Radio Shack. Where's their curiousity, was the question.
Another time, when mutual friends were sitting around him in sad
depression over fact of an impending death much affecting him, as I came
in, I am convinced he looked up and winked at me -- certainly a
communication, like they say.
I've always thought of him as a literalist, as I think I was -- saying
what he felt, understood, recognized, respected, abhorred, in very
literal terms, including the fantasies. Thinking of an early common
interest in Korzybski, the non-Aristotelian sense of "meaning" and
syntax, his use of cut-up was very practical and effective. It broke
the classic "order" or narative as simply a "cause and
effect,""historically" ordered sequence. I'd already connected with
Celine, for example, and Burroughs was the solid next step.
I'd get occasional Xmas cards I am sure James Grauerholtz helped get in
the mail -- I am grateful Bill Burroughs knew I cared, like they say.
He was the impeccable "lone telegraph operator," as he put it. He got a
lot done for us all."
(Robert Creeley)
****************************************************************
And now for a dissenting opinion, here's what Carolyn Cassady
(of Neal and Carolyn/"Off The Road" fame) wrote. I hope
it doesn't seem she's being disrespectful of Burroughs here,
rather she's speaking her mind because I asked her for her
honest thoughts, not just an empty polite tribute.
****************************************************************
"Trouble is, I don't feel like any "tribute" to BB. As I
wrote, he didn't want to know me nor I him. He represented all
that I think negative and counter-poductive, if not downright destructive in
human life and the antithesis of what I believe we should all be about. I
felt somewhat better about him when the TV interviewer asked him if there was
anything in his life he regretted. Bill's reply was "Are your kidding? Everyt
hing!" I wanted to say, well, duh--I coulda told you so. "Wise men learn
from the experience of others; fools from their own". I know, there's this
theory that in order to appreciate the heights, you have to know the depths,
but I don't agree. I have much to learn, but I don't think his way would be
rewarding. So, sorry, Levi,--but lemme know if we scored on this.
Cheers, CC"
(Carolyn Cassady)
****************************************************************
(And now, if anybody out there is in touch with Gary Snyder,
could you please go nudge him and tell him to write back too?)
------------------------------------------------------
| Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com |
| |
| Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
| (3 years old and still running) |
| |
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at http://coffeehousebook.com |
| |
| *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* |
| |
| "It was my dream that screwed up" |
| -- Jack Kerouac |
------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 19:22:02 -0700
Reply-To: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Bill faces judgement (fwd)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I wrote (2 seconds ago)
> At least the Wall Street Journal article tried to be funny
> ("an insult to nullity" ... yeah, yeah). Really, it's
> their job to insult people like Burroughs, and I'm only
> glad the Wall Street Journal didn't suddenly decide to
> embrace Burroughs and call him a genius. Then I'd really
> worry. Like when Bill Gates suddenly embraces Microsoft.
> I prefer to see my adversaries standing across the street,
Oops, obviously I meant "embraces Apple" -- see, I'm
totally confused already ...
------------------------------------------------------
| Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com |
| |
| Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
| (3 years old and still running) |
| |
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at http://coffeehousebook.com |
| |
| *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* |
| |
| "It was my dream that screwed up" |
| -- Jack Kerouac |
------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 21:30:58 -0500
Reply-To: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Luther Allison
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Luther Allison died today, 08-12-97, in Madison, Wi.
j grant
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 19:35:12 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Church of St. John
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Beal-l folk looking for a more attractive religious organization might
be interested in the St. Johns African Orthodox Church in SF, since the
St. John is Coltrane. Was going to post a reference to a story on this
unique church but got lazy and then the Burroughs death dominated
everyone's mind. For a more complete report one could look up a story
that appeared in the SF Weekly for the week of July 23-39. Services
with Coltrane's music held every Sunday and special services on the
anniversery of Coltrane's ascension. Any Coltrane fanatics out there
interested in a copy let me know.
J. Stauffer
I guess until we get a St. Williams, this will have to do.
J Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 19:40:32 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Luther Allison
Comments: To: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
jo grant wrote:
>
> Luther Allison died today, 08-12-97, in Madison, Wi.
>
What a year. Think I'll put on "Reckless".
J. Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 19:23:03 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: [Fwd: Re: Wall Street Journal 'n Fruity Pebbles]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: message/rfc822
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Message-ID: <33F11A46.61A0@pacbell.net>
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 19:21:58 -0700
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: Wall Street Journal 'n Fruity Pebbles
References: <c=US%a=_%p=OEES%l=SD-MAIL-970812162945Z-458@sd-mail.sd.oees.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Without a doubt the WSJ piece was poorly thought and badly timed. As
someone who usually reads the WSJ editorial page I was appalled. But I
am still for free speech, even stupid speech. Good art always seems to
be able to outlast stupid criticism. Such a tirade may even attract
readers for Ginsberg's and Burrough's work. Think of what a
masterstroke of marketing the Howl obscenity trial was--no publisher
could or would have bought a poet that kind of a high profile. Same was
true for Joyce and Lawrence. Remember how delighted movie and book
distributors used to be when they were banned in Boston so that they
could splash "Banned in Boston" on a marquee or a book display?
J Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 21:48:06 -0500
Reply-To: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Luther Allison
Comments: To: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
jo grant wrote:
>
> Luther Allison died today, 08-12-97, in Madison, Wi.
>
> j grant
who was Luther Allison? Pardon my ignorance.
p
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 03:09:44 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Luther Allison
Damn!! is there anybody left?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 23:47:23 -0400
Reply-To: Alex Howard <kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alex Howard <kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Was Burroughs really a beat writer?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.970812220342.23103A-100000@cap1.capaccess.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
When discussing this in the past and asked to name the big three, I always
said Kerouac, Ginsberg, and Corso. Burroughs too, but always I list last
as he seemed to transcend beat. He was beat and something more. He, like
the others, sought to break literary and (insert conceptual term here)
boundaries, but only as a means to better communicate. What he wanted to
communicate went above, beyond, and sideways to the others. As beat as he
wanted to be, no more no less; but so much more. Years from now when
post-modernism finally gets a real name and is figured out by academia so
they can teach about it Burroughs will be there just after the sophmores
finish their papers on Beckett.
------------------
Alex Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State University
kh14586@acs.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www.acs.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 23:54:10 -0600
Reply-To: stand666@bitstream.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: R&R Houff <stand666@BITSTREAM.NET>
Subject: LUTHER ALLISON
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Thanks Jo for the post, and Bentz, James, Charles,
for your kindness. My father was with him earlier
yesterday, and called late last night. When the phone
rings after 3:00 A.M., you pretty much know what's
next. I've spent pretty much the whole day and evening
on my back steps playing bottleneck. There's a band shell
amphitheater 100 miles south of St Paul. It's a nice quiet
place that is no longer in use. I think I'll head down there
for a few days and play some slide. About a month ago I was
there and it had a beautiful sound bouncing off the walls. My
dad wants to give Luther a Scotish rites farewell with bagpipes
and drums. Play The Black Watch and Amazing Grace. You know,
Luther would probably get a bang out of that one. All these old
white guys from the Masonic Lodge, honoring him. Maybe there's
hope after all. It seems strange that my interview with Luther
would be his last. Alligator Records loved it, Pulse Magazine
prints it, and two days later he recieves a terminal diagnosis.
But the blues never dies. I'll be interviewing Homesick James for
Pulse. Homesick James is probably the last living link to Robert
Johnson. He is the same age as Burroughs: 83, born in 1914--and
he plays on a Fender Strat with Marshall Amp, slide, and all--
rocking the house!!! Now that's cool.
Richard Houff
Pariah Press
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 00:58:20 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Last look at Walgreens?
Comments: To: junky@burroughs.net
In a message dated 97-08-12 23:53:00 EDT, you write:
<< has been spent on some mutated
form of acid, what with all the event cracking my head open across that
time, there's no other possible explanation other than this is just not
real.
but of course, it is.... >>
Damn right. I caught that same "bug." Something did happen, I'dsay. I've been
through 'em before. I knew that old con man was gonna restonate the hell
outta things. "Look at these paintings, Charley; this is great art. See the
shapes of things that keep forming? I did.
You can have anything of mine. Sharing love for the old man is enough.
Tonight has been the first night I started to come off the "mutated acid"
jag. I wonder if Burroughs cut to another stratasphere, or is he peering
around in a black hole looking for Huncke to ferret out the scence?
C Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 01:33:27 -0400
Reply-To: DawnDR@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Dawn B. Sova" <DawnDR@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Village Voice obit.
Just a response regarding the C.Carr whose byline appears in the voice. That
is Lucien's son Caleb --- author of THE ALIENIST (a very dark, literate and
engrossing novel ) -- as well as much other work. I saw interviews with him
in '94? when the novel was climbing up the bestseller lists.
Dawn
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 05:41:14 -0400
Reply-To: Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Bill faces judgement (fwd)
Comments: To: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
No, you had it right. Gates certainly embraced
Microsoft before Apple so you had it right. I wish
the sledge thrower from the 84 macintosh intro
commercial by Ridley Scott, I wish some had had a
hammer to throw at Gates' massive TV head during the
Apple symposium in Boston, where Gates appeared as
a new "Big Brother."
Mike Rice
At 07:22 PM 8/12/97 -0700, you wrote:
>I wrote (2 seconds ago)
>
>> At least the Wall Street Journal article tried to be funny
>> ("an insult to nullity" ... yeah, yeah). Really, it's
>> their job to insult people like Burroughs, and I'm only
>> glad the Wall Street Journal didn't suddenly decide to
>> embrace Burroughs and call him a genius. Then I'd really
>> worry. Like when Bill Gates suddenly embraces Microsoft.
>> I prefer to see my adversaries standing across the street,
>
>Oops, obviously I meant "embraces Apple" -- see, I'm
>totally confused already ...
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>| Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com |
>| |
>| Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
>| (3 years old and still running) |
>| |
>| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the Web" |
>| (a real book, like on paper) |
>| also at http://coffeehousebook.com |
>| |
>| *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* |
>| |
>| "It was my dream that screwed up" |
>| -- Jack Kerouac |
>------------------------------------------------------
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 13:37:46 +0200
Reply-To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: who's who?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970812085153.12553C-100000@baskerville.CS.Ar
izona.EDU>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Shannon,
the writer Fernanda Pivano in the '60s was in correspondence
with Henri Cru (in OTR he is Remi Boncoeur),
exempli gratia:
#1
''Dear Miss Pivano, please permit me to introduce myself...
My name is Henry Cru and my best friend "Jack Kerouac"
sent ne the enclosed postal card on my trip around the
world. I am an electrician on the President Jackson and
we are scheduled to arrive in Genoa June sixt or possibly
a day or two later. In Jack's best selling novel On The
Road he named himself "Sal Paradise" and he called me
"Remi Bon Coeur". According to his card he wishes for me
to tell you that I am Remi and then he sent me. I have no
idea why he wants me to tell you this but knowing Jack as
I do he must have some kind of mystical reason. I would be
delighted to receive a card from you enlightening me to
Kerouac's motives. My very best wishes.''.
#2
"Dear Nanda & Ettore, I have been on the road ona on the
ocean for many years but when ''Mon Frere'' Jack Kerouac
forget about ''the Beatnik Generation'' and starts to
entertain notions of scraping all his nonsensical ideas
about non conformism and starts to formulatae a gospel that
will bring peace to this miserable world, peoples in every
land will find love and genuine kindness like I found in
this home where I was treated like a King... Merci du fond
de mon coeur. Henri Cru "Remi Bon Coeur" ''.
Henri Cru, (Remi Boncoeur) is very important &
Jack Kerouac devoted alot of pages about him in "On the Road"
but Henri Cru is not mentioned in the Legend of Beat, why?
Boncoeur said "You can't teach the old maestro a new tone",
i consider the best motto in all OTR,
saluti
Rinaldo.
*
"Aaaaah Paradise, he comes in through the window,
he follows instructions to a T."---Remi Boncoeur in JK's OTR
*
At 08.55 12/08/97 -0700,
"Shannon L. Stephens" <shanstep@CS.ARIZONA.EDU> wrote:
>I'm still working on "On the Road," and have a character question.
>Don't jump all over me for this...if it screams ignorance...chalk it up
>to unfamiliarity. Who is Remi...and subsequently Lee Ann?
>
>-shannon
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 08:03:19 -0400
Reply-To: Bruce Hartman <bwhartmanjr@INAME.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bruce Hartman <bwhartmanjr@INAME.COM>
Subject: Re: Church of St. John
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
J.,
Resident Coltrane fanatic here. . . what exactly are you offering copies
of? I've seen the article you're talking about, and I must say that sounds
like the coolest place in the world. I just hope one of these days I'll
make it to San Francisco to experience it personally.
If you've got leads on any other obscure Coltrane info on the web shoot 'em
my way. I surfed well into (probably a few thousand sites deep) the
altavista return for "Coltrane" and was pretty let down by the majority of
the tributes. . .
Best to you,
Bruce
bwhartmanjr@iname.com
http://www.geocities.com/~tranestation
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 09:04:35 EDT
Reply-To: Fred Bogin <FDBBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Resent-From: Fred Bogin <FDBBC@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
Comments: Originally-From: Matthias_Schneider
<magrobi@mail.zedat.fu-berlin.de>
From: Fred Bogin <FDBBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Help! I am looking for an citation by Ginsberg
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi folks!
I am working at a thesis on Contemporary American Literature, and I have
once heard a citation by Ginsberg of which I have lost the source.
It=B4s about his attitude about literature which he considers as something
like leaving traces that can be followed and by this have to be
interpreteted and even translated .
Any idea?
Thanks,
M. Schneider (Berlin)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 09:40:21 EDT
Reply-To: Fred Bogin <FDBBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Resent-From: Fred Bogin <FDBBC@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
Comments: Originally-From: Ddrooy@aol.com
From: Fred Bogin <FDBBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Help! I am looking for an citation by Ginsberg
Comments: To: Bill Gargan <wxgbc@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
This isn't the citation, but it does have the essence of the citation, one
thing leading into another... and you may yet find it useful to your work:
..............................................................................
.....
In 1948 I had some kind of break in the normal modality of my consciousness.
While alone living a relatively solitary vegetarian contemplative life,
reading St. John of the Cross, Plotinus some, notions of "alone with the
Alone," or "one hand clapping," or The Cloud of Unknowing, or Plato's
Phaedrus, and William Blake, I had what was--for me--an extraordinary break
in the normal nature of my thought when something opened up.
I had finished masturbating, actually, on the sixth floor of a Harlem
tenement on 121st Street looking out at the roofs while reading Blake, back
and forth, and suddenly had a kind of auditory hallucination, hearing
Blake-what I thought was his voice, very deep, earthen tone, not very far
from my own mature tone of voice, so perhaps a projection of my own latent
physiology-reciting a poem called "The Sunflower," which I thought expressed
some kind of universal longing for union with some infinite nature. The poem
goes, "Ah, Sunflower/Weary of time/Who counteth the steps of the sun/Seeking
after that sweet golden clime where the traveler's journey is done/Where the
youth pined away with desire/And the pale virgin shrouded with snow/Arise
from their graves and aspire where my sunflower wishes to go."
I can't interpret it exactly now, but the impression that I had at the time
was of some infinite yearning for the infinite, finally realized, and I
looked out the window and began to notice the extraordinary detail of
intelligent labor that had gone into the making of the rooftop cornices of
the Harlem buildings. And I suddenly realized that the world was, in a sense,
not dead matter, but an increment or deposit of living intelligence and
action and activity that finally took form-the Italian laborers of 1890 and
1910, making very fine copper work and roofcomb ornament as you find along
the older tenement apartment buildings.
And as I looked at the sky I wondered what kind of intelligence had made that
vastness, or what was the nature of the intelligence that I was glimpsing,
and felt a sense of vastness and of coming home to a space I hadn't realized
was there before but which seemed old and infinite, like the ancient of Days,
so to speak.
But I had no training in anything but Western notions and didn't know how to
find a vocabulary for the experience, so I thought I had seen "God" or
"Light" or some western notion of a theistic center, or that was the
impression at the time.
..........................................................................
Here's the link to the entire interview: <A HREF="http://www.shambhalasun.com
/ginsberg.html">The Spiritual Biography of Allen Ginsberg</A>
Good luck.
Diane De Rooy
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 10:29:49 EST
Reply-To: DUST MY BROOM <breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: DUST MY BROOM <breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Kesey schedule, attention Canadians
Just a reminder to check the schedule of Kesey and his Pranksters as the bus
heads east and north once again on the Grandfurthur II Tour. If I remember, he
is making some stops in Canada. Click on the GRAND FURTHUR II Tour via
WWW.INTREPIDTRIPS.COM
They may be coming soon to a town near you!
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 11:48:06 EDT
Reply-To: Fred Bogin <FDBBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Fred Bogin <FDBBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Organization: Brooklyn College Library
Subject: ANother German Burroughs obit
Sueddeutsche Zeitung (Munich) August 4, 1997
Bill the Ripper
Zum Tod von Amerikas Saeulenheiligen
William S. Burroughs
Liebe Kinder, bitte nicht nachmachen!
Nach Augenzeugenberichten war es nur ein
Partyspiel. Aber weil zur Bowle Peyote
gereicht wurde und Marihuana, pflanzte
Burroughs seiner Frau einen Apfel auf
den Kopf, spielte Wilhelm Tell und
schoss. Der Apfel ueberstand das Spiel,
aber Joan Vollmer war auf der Stelle
tot. Halbwegs vernuenftige Menschen
wuerden jetzt das Fixen und Kiffen sein
lassen und nie wieder eine Waffe
anfassen, aber William Burroughs knallte
sich weiter rein, was an Halluzinogenen
zu kriegen war. In der Einleitung zum
Naked Lunch (1959) spricht er von einer
45 Jahre waehrenden Sucht; wer ihn
besuchte in den letzten Jahren, musste
mit ihm zuallererst auf Blechbuechsen
ballern. Der Mann war offensichtlich
verrueckt.
Oder Amerikaner. Da stand er 1990 auf
der Buehne des Thalia Theaters in Hamburg
neben Robert Wilson und Lou Reed, ein
hoffnungslos in seinem Buchhalteranzug
verschrumpfter Opa, zerknittert und bis
aufs feinste Knoechelchen entfleischt,
nicht mehr von dieser Welt, aber durch
saemtliche Formen geschritten, ein
Saeulenheiliger der Avantgarde, der alles
ueberlebt hatte. Aufgefuehrt wurde sein
Musical Black Rider, eine
Freischuetz-Geschichte -- und wieder eine
toedliche Kugel aus Liebe.
William Seward Burroughs, 1914 in St.
Louis als Fabrikantensohn geboren, war
nun wirklich fuer Besseres geboren. Wie
sein Landsmann T. S. Eliot ein
Vierteljahrhundert zuvor ging er nach
Harvard zum Studieren, dann nach Europa,
aber irgendwann drehte er durch und
machte seinen Unfrieden mit dem Alptraum
Amerika. Meldete sich eines schoenen
Tages beim FBI und wollte Geheimagent
werden. Sie lehnten ihn
vernuenftigerweise ab. Ersatzweise wurde
er rauschgiftsuechtig und lebte nun
selber in bestaendiger Furcht vor den
Haeschern. Einer wie Burroughs war
geboren fuer die Grosse Amerikanische
Paranoia.
Mit der Verbissenheit seiner Vorvaeter --
dieser Geldverdiener und sittenstrengen
Stuetzen der Gemeinde --, mit der gleichen
inbruenstigen Verbissenheit setzte sich
Burroughs jeder Sucht dieser irdischen
Welt aus, lungerte in Tanger herum, wo
er die Sonne nicht vertrug, schrieb,
obwohl er nicht wusste wie und wovon er
leben sollte, schrieb auf Entzug und im
Rausch, wie ein Suechtiger.
Sie sind ziemlich schwer zu lesen, seine
Buecher, cut up. Zerstueckelt habe er
seine Texte bis zur Unverstaendlichkeit,
immer neu zusammengefuegt und dabei
zerfleddert. Aber brauchte so viel
Wahnsinn ueberhaupt eine Methode? Sie
sollten "reines Fleisch" sein, schrieb
ihm sein Freund Allen Ginsberg ins Buch,
"ohne symbolische Sosse". Weh dem, der
Symbole sieht in seinen Tausendfuesslern,
Halbtieren und Dreiviertelmonstern!
Alles Fleisch vom Fleische Amerikas, die
schlichte Wahrheit, wie Burroughs sie
sah im Wahn. "Ich bin", versicherte er,
"ich bin nur ein Aufzeichnungsgeraet."
Roland Barthes harfte ausgiebig ueber den
Nullpunkt, an dem sich die Literatur um
1960 angeblich befand, aber Burroughs
beschrieb diesen Punkt nicht bloss,
sondern stach immer wieder hinein, nahm
sich staendig neue Proben ab, zerfetzte
sich und seine Texte. Der Dichter in
seiner besten Eigenschaft als Schlitzer.
Entziehungskuren mussten dann sein, mal
bei Dr. Wilhelm Reich, dann bei L. Ron
Hubbard, aber weder die Orgonmaschine
noch die Scientology halfen. Und so fand
er nach zwei Ehefrauen und einem Sohn
zurueck zu den Freuden der Jugend, zur
Erinnerung an die ersten verstohlenen
Griffe in die fremde Unterhose. Gegen so
viel Leben kommt das Werk nicht an,
schon allein, weil es nach den fruehen
Buechern Methode wurde. Aber: Von Velvet
Underground ueber Patti Smith bis Kurt
Cobain folgten sie ihm nach -- und war er
nicht ein Heiliger?
In New York verschanzte er sich in einem
Gelass in der Bowery, vierfach verriegelt
gegen die Penner und Junkies draussen,
die ihn, den alten gebrechlichen Mann,
vielleicht haetten ueberfallen koennen,
waehrend er sich drin, umgeben von
Stahlruten, Revolvern und Pornoheften,
ausmalte, wie es wohl war, von den
wilden Kerlen ueberfallen zu werden.
Zuletzt kehrte er zurueck in den
Mittleren Westen, zu seinen xenophoben,
dafuer gottesfuerchtigen Mitbuergern,
schiesswuetig wie sie und nicht weniger
paranoid. Sie wussten genau, dass die
Kommunisten (wahlweise die Juden, die
Katholiken) das Trinkwasser vergiftet
hatten oder der CIA das Aids-Virus
gezuechtet, um die ganze Menschheit
auszurotten. Burroughs sammelte all
diese Geschichten und bewegte sie in
seinem Herzen. Dann schoss er wieder auf
seine Blechbuechsen.
Aber bitte, liebe Kinder, nicht
nachmachen zu Hause! Am Samstag ist der
gute Amerikaner William S. Burroughs in
Lawrence (Kansas) im Alter von 83 Jahren
gestorben.
WILLI WINKLER
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 11:48:33 EDT
Reply-To: Fred Bogin <FDBBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Fred Bogin <FDBBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Organization: Brooklyn College Library
Subject: Oops
Sorry about that last post. I hit the wrong key too soon. It was a
Burroughs obit from the Munich paper, Sueddeutsche Zeitung. Thanks to Leon
for translating the other one, sorry I'm too lazy to do it myself. If
you want to do this one, too... :-)
Fred
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 09:29:54 -0700
Reply-To: "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: Wall Street Journal 'n Fruity Pebbles
Comments: To: "stauffer@pacbell.net" <stauffer@pacbell.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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James writ:
<<
>But I
>am still for free speech, even stupid speech. Good art always seems to
>be able to outlast stupid criticism. Such a tirade may even attract
>readers for Ginsberg's and Burrough's work.
>>
good art, <hm>.... Been talking backchannel about death and
aesthetics. How death always wins over style and substance and whatnot.
At least I'm assuming that's the end equation. Can a writer/artist be
immortal? That's the question. Will the remaining works leave enough
of an impression to live forever?
And then we get talking about "art for art's" sake. Yep, I'm a firm
believer in that; but I don't think it's unfair to also ask what *work*
does a piece do. What *work*? And not *if* it is art, but *when* is it
art?
driving into work today, thinking of all my old friends. 5 years oughta
college, 10 years oughta high school. and all them before and since.
Promotion? What is that dirty dog? A: It's an attitude I haven't
quite grasped yet. The citation and linking of "new" and "cool" with a
person. All these newspapers, all the television shows, all the fucking
middlemen mucking up the works, taking their 5-10%+. Promotion taking
it's cut of the action.
PJ Harvey's "driving" pumping on the car stereo, waiting for the light
to change. Attractive executive woman in a uptown car applies makeup.
Nerd boy to my right thinks about his code unraveling in various places.
And where am I? Who am I hustling today?
and death? you wanna piece of me? come and take it
>> J Stauffer
Douglas
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 12:35:51 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Bill faces judgement (fwd)
Comments: To: mrice@centuryinter.net
In a message dated 97-08-13 12:20:02 EDT, you write:
<< glad the Wall Street Journal didn't suddenly decide to
>> embrace Burroughs and call him a ge >>
I'm with you there. Though, I think the writer was some of that new
merchandise who will never have that old spirit B talked about. That is
sad...for them .Oh Brave Newts.
C. Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 09:42:59 -0700
Reply-To: "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: Last look at Walgreens?
Comments: To: "CVEditions@AOL.COM" <CVEditions@AOL.COM>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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C writ:
<<
>I wonder if Burroughs cut to another stratasphere, or is he peering
>around in a black hole looking for Huncke to ferret out the scence?
>>
and death as in life Charley Brown? Interesting to read all these obits
and questions of beatness. That Burroughs wasn't an optimist, wasn't
this and that compared to Kerouac and Ginsberg. So he didn't care what
people thought? Didn't care about this and that ideal?
and in death? free of this mortal coil, so to speak, then what? Maybe
he's living a completely different life now. Am feeling poetic and
generally pissed off this morning. I'll die a 1000 deaths and report
back later.
>> C Plymell
Douglas
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 12:44:04 EDT
Reply-To: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Thanks Leon
Good shot at that translation. My buddy Fred who posted it said that it would
be tough to translate because of slang.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 14:47:58 -0500
Reply-To: Michael Skau <mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Skau <mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: burroughs
Content-Type: text
Hello again.
I've been out of town for a few weeks and quit the list for that
period. I saw about Burroughs's passing in a newspaper.
Has anyone seen any comments from either Corso or Ferlinghetti on
his death? If so, could you let me know where you saw them by
contacting me on the list or privately.
Thanks. I appreciate it in advance.
Cordially,
Mike Skau
8/13/97
mskau@cwis.unomaha.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 18:36:01 EDT
Reply-To: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
I've had several requests to change the reply function on the list so
that all replies default to the list rather than the sender. Since
traffic seems to have become more reasonable lately, I've asked Fred
Bogin to change the default tomorrow morning. After this is done, your
reply will be sent directly to all list members. Please keep this in
mind to avoid sending private messages out to the whole list.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 18:59:29 -0400
Reply-To: Judith Campbell <boondock@POBOX.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Judith Campbell <boondock@POBOX.COM>
Subject: McCarthy Review of Naked Lunch Online
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The New York Book of Reviews has posted the entire content of the first
issue online, including the review of Naked Lunch by Mary McCarthy.
The url: http://www.nybooks.com/nyrev/firstcontents.html
Enjoy!
Judith
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 20:04:12 -0700
Reply-To: "Michael R. Brown" <foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael R. Brown" <foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>
Subject: Re: Was Burroughs really a beat writer?
Comments: To: Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.970812220342.23103A-100000@cap1.capaccess.org>
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On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, Richard Wallner wrote:
> Heard an interesting argument recently in discussions about Burroughs
> life. It was argued that Bill Burroughs was not really a beat writer.
> Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg and most of the other beat writers, saw
> their literary efforts as part of a religious mission, a search for faith
> as it were. Most of them were into eastern religions and philosphies and
> the ideas of finding peace in mind spirit, and soul.
Oh, Burroughs was at least as religious as Kerouac, Ginsberg & Co. Ker and
Gins were more in the extroverted, extrojected Catholic or Tibetan
Buddhist line. Burr had religion, but it had no deity-object, no cathedral
(other tha, perhaps, the experiential soma), no Holy Book. He was in the
minimalist-to-negative-theology family of Zen, Nagarjuna, Pierre de
Caussade S.J. (_Abandonment to Divine Providence_ - *good book), and
minimalist good-works Protestantism.
"Beat" perhaps has no wider meaning than Kerouac, Ginsberg, Burroughs,
Ferlinghetti, et fils. What does "Impressionist" mean other than those
painters? But if "Beat" has any general meaning, it would seem to be the
the following:
- sacredness of immediate inspiration
- defiance of past forms/formulas
- Whitmanesque onward rushing motion
- concrete-oriented street-grit in style
- sexual and pharmacological themes
- nomadic narrators
- combination of cynical or even resigned-depressive tendencies (style
often emotionally flat) with idealism.
Highly religious, and fits Burr perfectly.
+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +
Michael R. Brown foosi@global.california.com
+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +
"Wittgenstein said that if the universe is pre-recorded, the only thing
not pre-recorded is those recordings themselves. In my work,
the cut-ups and all, I attempt to get at the substance of the
recordings."
- William S. Burroughs
(quoted from memory)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 23:27:50 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: [Fwd: Old Bull Lee]
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I thought this was a particularly good post from the Dylan newsgroup.
Patricia, maybe he could still come to Lawrence, but what would he do,
maybe he could feed the cats or something.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
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From: mlenz@bulldog.d.umn.edu (michael lenz)
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Old Bull Lee
Date: 12 Aug 1997 20:42:38 GMT
Organization: University of Minnesota, Duluth
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Xref: Supernews69 rec.music.dylan:89808
i'm not a regular reader of this newsgroup. this is my first visit since the
death
of mr. burroughs. i have to say i'm apalled at at the general brutality and
ignorance that is reigning in here. you cannot place a value on literature. it
is
not quantitative. you cannot say that hemingway is better than burroughs or
that
burroughs is better than hemingway. you can like them both, one of them or
neither. i think to fully appreciate burroughs you have to here the voice.
burroughs voice is that of a withered shaman. his work is about culture's
absurd
attempt to keep up with the technological explosion. it reflects in dark humor
the
entropy and isolation that has come to earmark postmodern lioterature. for me
he
was among the best. i value cut-ups and other such experimental forms of
writing.
i put only pynchon before him and i hesitate to do that because as i said
before,
it's not a quantitative thing. i was planning a trip to lawrence next summer,
maybe take in a few horde/furthur shows on the way and sit on the old mystic's
porch for a while. (i know people who have done this. burroughs was always a
gentleman to the wayfarers). i don't know who said what, nor do i care, but the
person who said that he never wrote anything good after Junkie (it was
origanally
published "Junkie" then reprinted "Junky") and Naked Lunch is ignorant of that
last
triumphant trilogy (Cities of the Red Night, Place of Dead Roads, and The
Western
Lands) and the short, but beautiful "The Cat Inside". Burroughs caused me to
question in my own thinking and writing such elemetary things as words and
phrases.
to discount his body of work as a "blight" is ignorant and short-sighted. i for
one will miss the voice and am sorry that my plans were a summer too late.
mike lenz
p.s. Check out Ports of Entry. it's a book of Burroughs artwork. he was
equally
talented and equally inventive in that as an artist and a writer.
--------------9DEC3992ADB3BC61D795DE66--
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 00:47:55 -0400
Reply-To: Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: LUTHER ALLISON
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Richard,
Thought you'd like to know that our local paper , the Montreal
Gazette (founded by Ben Franklin believe it or not!) had a nice obituary
about Luther Allison. They described his great show at this year's Montreal
Jazz Festival (which we missed!?!) and what a great receptiion he had.
Also, CBC (the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, our counterpart to
NPR) had a nice bit about Luther on their national radio news at 6:00pm
yesterday, finishing up with "Walkin' Papers". Very nice.
My regards and condolences,
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 10:17:51 +0200
Reply-To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: about razor
In-Reply-To: <c=US%a=_%p=OEES%l=SD-MAIL-970812172530Z-539@sd-mail.sd.oee s.com>
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>Rinaldo, you are such a tease. Somebody please translate?
>
>Douglas
>> ENTIA NON SUNT MULTIPLICANDA
>> PRAETER NECESSITATEM...
>>
please, excuse me, the translation is
"IT IS VAIN TO DO WITH MORE
WHAT CAN BE DONE WITH FEWER"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:44:33 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James J Stavola <JDSept@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Was Burroughs really a beat writer?
Comments: To: rwallner@capaccess.org
Certainly WSB was a beat writer,maybe not in the total sense of religious
mission or so called peace of mind that you mentioned but all of them were a
reaction to that little white house Leave it to Beaver mentality of the late
40s and early 50s.I think the begining of the beat movement was actually a
reaction to the boring mentality of America at that time by the showing of
the fringe livers.WSB certainly fills that concept.Afterwards the writers
went in many individual but loosely tied direction but the original bindings
were still there.most of these guys lived in some kind of exile WSB by
himself or in a group type exile as some of the others did.The idea of
beatness goes farther then just writing anyways.The ultimate beat(terrible
term) who most admired and was a starting point for some of them Neal C. was
hardly a writer at all.I think WSB fits the beat mold.
thank-you
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 09:04:00 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Hemenway . Mark" <MHemenway@DRC.COM>
Subject: Lowell Schedule
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----------
From: Mark Hemenway[SMTP:mhemenway@igc.apc.org]
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 1997 9:57 PM
To: Hemenway . Mark
10th Annual Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! Festival 2-5 October 1997
Lowell, MA Jack Kerouac Celebrates Lowell
THURSDAY 2 OCTOBER
Barbara Concannon-Crete Memorial Poetry Prize- High School Poetry
9:00AM-11:00AM
Lowell High School Poetry Competition for High School Students-
for Information call 508-452-7966
Downtown Kerouac Places- Walking Tour
4:30-6:00 PM
Roger Brunelle leads a walking tour of Kerouac's downtown. Begins
at Middlesex Community College, ends at the Pollard Memorial
Library.
Images of Kerouac '97- Reception and Photography Exhibition
6:00PM- 8:00PM
Whistler House Museum of Art, 243 Worthen Street Open exhibition
of photography inspired by Jack Kerouac or the Beats. Entries
welcome. Deadline 12 September. Co-sponsored by the Whistler House
Museum of Art, 508-452-7641.
Jack Kerouac Literary Prize Award
7:00PM
Whistler House Museum of Art, 243 Worthen Street Presentation of
the 9th Annual Jack Kerouac Literary Prize. The prize is sponsored
by The Estate of Jack and Stella Kerouac, Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac!, Inc. and Middlesex Community College.
Dr Sax Nights- Walking Tours
8:00PM-10:00PM
Roger Brunelle leads a walking tour of Kerouac's Pawtucketville.
Tour begins at MacDonald's Mammoth Rd, ends at the Spaulding
House, Pawtucket Blvd. for discussion. Rain or shine.
Friends and Music
10:00PM-12:00PM
Greek Band, Greek food and Lowell Poets. The Athenian Corner
Restaurant, 207 Market Street.
FRIDAY 3 OCTOBER
3rd Annual Beat Literature Symposium
8:00AM-5:00PM
O'Leary Library, Room 222, South Campus, UMASS-Lowell 9:00AM-12:00
Noon - Presentation of Papers 2:00PM - Keynote Presentation by Ann
Douglas, Columbia University 3:00PM-5:00 - Panel discussions
Leading scholars present original research on beat authors,
writing techniques and cultural phenomena. No charge. For
information and pre-registration, call 508-934-2446. Sponsored by
the English Department and the Department of Continuing Education,
UMASS-Lowell.
Mystic Jack- Walking Tour
5:00PM-6:00PM
Begins and ends at St. Louis Church, Centralville. Tour by Roger
Brunelle.
Memorial Mass for Jack and Stella Kerouac
6:00PM-7:00PM
St. Louis de France Church, Centralville
Listen to the Beat- Readings
8:00PM-10:00PM
The Parkway Cafe, 350 Market Street Poets Vincent Ferrini,
Patricia Smith, Michael Brown, Lawrence Carradini, and Meg Smith.
Singer song-writer, Bob Martin present and evening of performance
poetry and music. Suggested donation $3.00.
Friends Music and Lowell Poets
10:00PM-12:00PM
Park Way Cafe
SATURDAY 4 OCTOBER
Nashua - Bus Tour
RESERVATIONS REQUIRED
9:00AM-1:00PM
9:00AM- Depart from Lowell Barnes and Noble. Reservations can be
made in person, or call 508-458-3939. 9:30AM- Depart Nashua, NH
Barnes and Noble. NH. For reservations, call Laura Eanes at
603-897-0777. A bus tour of Kerouac places in Nashua, NH.
Small Press Book Fair
10:00AM-4:00PM
Memorial Hall, Pollard Library A sampling of local presses and
Kerouac material. Co-sponsored by the Pollard Memorial Library and
Friends of the Library.
Commemorative at the Commemorative- Honoring Jack Kerouac and
Allen Ginsberg 11:00AM-12:00Noon The Kerouac Commemorative, Bridge
and French Streets
Strictly Kerouac- Dance
12:30-1:00 PM
The Courtyard at the Market Street Visitor's Center, Lowell
National Historical Park Jan Zwadney and a Feast of Friends
interprets Kerouac in dance, music and word.
Allen Ginsberg and Friends: A Photographic Remembrance
1:00PM- 3:00PM Brush Art Gallery, Market Street Visitors Center
Photographs by Gordon Ball, Elsa Dorfman, Gerard Malanga and Fred
McDarrah. Exhibition open from September 25 - November 16th.
Gallery Talk- Gordon Ball
1:30PM Brush Art Gallery, Market Street Visitor Center
Photographer and Ginsberg editor, Gordon Ball talks about
photographing Allen Ginsberg.
Poetry at the Rainbow Cafe 4:00PM-6:00PM Rainbow Cafe, Cabot
Street
Anne Waldman and Friends- A Tribute to Allen Ginsberg
8:00PM-10:00PM Smith Baker Auditorium, Merrimack Street-
Admission- $7.00 Anne Waldman, renowned poet, performer, and
editor leads a tribute to the Dharma Lion. James Cameron on
saxophone.
Music Friends and Lowell Poets 10:00PM -12:00 PM The Downstairs
Cafe, Merrimack Street
SUNDAY 5 OCTOBER The Jack Kerouac Tour- Bus Tour 9:30AM-11:30AM
RESERVATIONS REQUIRED Departs from Middlesex Community College,
Merrimack Street Bus tour of Kerouac's Lowell. Call 508-452-7966
for reservations. Please give name, phone number and number of
places reserved. Words and Music- Open Mic
1:00PM-3:00PM The Coffee Mill, Palmer Street.
Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!, Inc. is a non-profit corporation
dedicated to the celebration, enjoyment and study of Jack Kerouac
and his writings. Whenever possible, events are free, however,
donations are gratefully accepted for continued support of the
annual Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! Festival.. To make a donation,
or to find out more about Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!, Inc., write:
P.O. Box 1111, Lowell, MA 01853.
Before he died at age 47, Jack Kerouac published 24 books
chronicling the lives and adventures of the post war generation in
America. The raw energy and beauty of his prose established a new
standard in American literature. Jack Kerouac was born, raised and
remained a native of Lowell throughout his life. 5 of his novels
take place in Lowell, and the city is mentioned in virtually every
one of his books. His descriptions of Lowell are remarkable for
their beauty, power and timelessness. Through them, millions of
readers have come to know Lowell as a universal hometown.
This publication is funded....
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 21:50:38 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: For Diane M. Homza, "In regards"]
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I am forwarding this post for Arthur so he doesn't have to retype it as
we start our discussion of Naked Lunch/On the Road/Howl. There is also
quite a long essay on how to approach Naked Lunch at www.bigtable.com
DC
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: For Diane M. Homza, "In regards"
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 15:07:38 -0400
> From: Arthur Nusbaum <SSASN@AOL.COM>
> Reply-To: SSASN@AOL.COM
> To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
> Dear Diane:
>
> I would like to offer some suggestions for your reading of NAKED LUNCH.
> It
> was also the first WSB book that I read in its entirety, almost 2
> decades
> ago, and it can indeed be a little daunting as your first exposure to
> one of
> the great literary and cultural figures of our waning century, and a
> prophet
> of the next and beyond. In the intervening years since I was in your
> position, I have read, seen, heard and interacted with virtually every
> published item that I am aware of by or about WSB, including the great
> man
> himself whom I visited 2&1/2 years ago. Besides my posts that are
> flowing at
> a steady rate on this List and to some of its correspondents
> individually, I
> have done a small amount of scholarly writing on him myself. So, I
> believe I
> am qualified to answer your call for support and advice.
>
> After having read NL several times and absorbed a lot of commentary on
> it
> from many sources, I thought I had a fair handle on it. But luckily
> for you,
> there now exists an unprecedented guide, a key to understanding this
> kaleidescopic work. An audio version of the book, read by WSB himself,
> is
> available. I have the cd version, I know there is a cassette edition
> also,
> and it should still be available in stock or by order, it only came out
> about
> 2 years ago this fall. Although abridged, it is 3 hours long and most
> of the
> text is there. I cannot stress how highly I recommend that you listen
> to WSB
> read NL, it is clear, well-paced, and the very ways in which he
> emphasizes
> and modulates words and sentences bring them into focus and out of the
> fragmentary fog from which they can fade in and out of the text without
> this
> aid. You could finish reading NL and then obtain the audio edition, or
> better yet obtain and listen to it (at least twice) now, then return to
> your
> reading. My listening to the cd's no less than doubled my
> comprehension and
> appreciation of this critical work. But I should note something at
> this
> point- what I've said above does not mean that you can't enjoy or
> benefit
> from NL without hearing it read by the author, one of the greatest
> pleasures
> I have gotten from it before or after being exposed to the cd's is to
> savor
> the evocative and poetic phrases that have a life of their own and jump
> off
> the page to burrow, so to speak, in your brain. Some of my favorites
> from
> this rich treasure trove are: "The days glide by, strung on a syringe
> with a
> long thread of blood", "Motel...Motel...Motel...broken neon
> arabesque...loneliness moans across the continent like foghorns over
> still
> oily water of tidal rivers" (one of my all-time favorite phrases in all
> of
> literature), and so many more. As the author advises near the end, you
> can
> re-order the pages and read them in any combination, this is a roiling,
> organic work that should not be read with an attitude that it can be
> reined
> in, amenable to cliff-note condensation.
>
> After you have read and heard NL, I further advise you to go back and
> chronologically read all the works that precede it, in this way you
> will see
> how WSB arrived at NL and further appreciate his achievement in the
> context
> of his life and work up to that point. The books, all still in print,
> are in
> order as follows: JUNKY, QUEER, THE YAGE LETTERS (with Allen Ginsberg)
> and
> THE LETTERS OF WILLIAM S. BURROUGHS (1945-1959), which were written,
> mostly
> to AG, during the period leading up to the first publication of NL.
> There is
> another volume of letters written by WSB to AG, many of which do not
> overlap
> with the ones in the other, but it is hard to find. If you can locate
> it
> (it's just titled WILLIAM S. BURROUGHS\LETTERS TO ALLEN GINSBERG
> 1953-1957),
> I highly recommend it, some of the letters are real gems. The best
> letters
> of all, in my opinion, are those from WSB to AG in TYL above, it is a
> perversely hilarious and quintessentially Burroughsian work that is
> often
> overlooked, short and fun to read again and again. All of these early
> works
> are written in a lucid, easily comprehensible style, although you'll
> know
> that only WSB could have written them. Along with the above works, you
> should also read the biography LITERARY OUTLAW: THE LIFE AND TIMES OF
> WILLIAM S. BURROUGHS by Ted Morgan, concurrently, before or after them.
> It
> will give you a good initial grounding in the life and experiences from
> which
> the works emerged, it was published in and goes up to 1988, beyond the
> NL
> period so good enough for your purposes at this point. As with the
> other
> major Beat figures, the life and art are particularly intertwined and
> mirrors
> of each other. Finally, you should attempt to see the film biography
> BURROUGHS, directed by Howard Brookner, originally released in 1985.
> Like
> LO, it provides an initial overview.
>
> I can assure you that you won't be sorry if you follow my suggestions,
> and
> would like to know how you're coming along from time to time. It may
> seem as
> if I've burdoned you with a semester's worth of reading, listening and
> viewing, but if you catch the WSB virus, you will quickly devour these
> items
> and want MORE. A few more NL comments to conclude for now- The
> introductory
> essays which probably appear in whatever edition you're reading,
> TESTIMONY
> CONCERNING A SICKNESS and LETTER FROM A MASTER ADDICT TO DANGEROUS
> DRUGS are
> remarkable in their clarity of language and are in themselves minor
> masterpieces separable from NL even as they enrich it. And your
> comment
> about Macbeth is interesting. While an undergraduate at Harvard, WSB
> studied
> Shakespeare, and he is familiar with and weaves quotes from the Bard in
> his
> works and conversation. WSB arrived at his avant-garde experiments,
> which
> become literally more cutting-edge with the cutups after NL, from a
> firm,
> rounded educational and reading background, not to mention his myriad
> experiences right up to and over the edge.
>
> Well, enough for now. Good luck, and I envy your reading these works
> for the
> first time, there's nothing like that first shot......
>
> Regards,
>
> Arthur S. Nusbaum
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 09:00:19 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Lowell Kerouac organizers
In-Reply-To: <c=US%a=_%p=drc%l=AND02-970814130400Z-14979@and02.drc.com>
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>----------
>From: "Hemenway . Mark" <MHemenway@DRC.COM>
>Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 1997 9:57 PM
>10th Annual Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! Festival 2-5 October 1997
>Lowell, MA Jack Kerouac Celebrates Lowell
>Memorial Mass for Jack and Stella Kerouac
>6:00PM-7:00PM
>St. Louis de France Church, Centralville
It is a disgrace that Jack's daughter, Jan Kerouac, dead slightly more than
a year, is not being included in this mass.
This is such an overt act of hatred for a dear, compassionate, generous and
talented writer/daughter that I am without words.
I can only hope that beats, be they students, scholars, readers, or
wannabees with heart, brains and gonads, will see that this kind of crap
ends--someday.
j grant
Small Press Authors and Publishers display books
FREE
http://www.bookzen.com/addbook-form.html
375,913 visitors - 07-01-96 to 07-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:03:15 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: patti smith news (boston)
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got some more news about patti smith
and her continued support for beat artists
burroughs and ginsberg
Interesting to note her attitude
towards performance
towards friendship and art
and <<ahem>>
that she made drawings at AG's deathbed
anybody from boston seen these??
stolen from the babel-list (again)
From: JP Jacob <jpjacob@bu.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 23:04:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Boston show
Douglas
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Thanks to all who came to the Boston show for support of the
Photographic Resource Center. It was a great evening for me, and Patti,
Lenny, and Oliver were also very happy. Before they left, much later
Monday night, Patti said that the band will be doing a limited tour this
fall that will include Boston, followed by a full scale tour next year.
Something to look forward to!
I haven't compared this with Mitch's note, so sorry for redundancy, but
here is the complete setlist:
1. Footnotes to Howl
<<[snip]>>
9. Psalm 23 Revisited [her WSB poem]
What was wonderful for me about the set, since this event was put
together in conjunction with our exhibition at the PRC, was the thread
that Patti wove throughout the show with pieces by and about the
important artists in her life: Ginsberg (to whom the exhibition was
dedicated), Burroughs, O'Keefe, Pollock, and Mapplethorpe.
It's something that hasn't received too much attention, but the two new
drawings in the exhibit are the first new drawings that Patti has shown
since the 1970s (anyway, so she tells me). They're expansions of
sketches and notes that she made at Ginsberg's deathbed (she was
carrying the original sketches in her pocket while reading the Footnotes
from Howl to us), and the performance seemed to me to come right out of
the passion and the love that went into those drawings. That was the
starting point.
<<[snip]>>
There's one other thing. I had a real introduction, but Patti asked me
not to read it. What I'd wanted to talk about is how impressed I have
been by Patti, Lenny, and Oliver's ongoing support of organizations and
individuals, taking positions in relation to small causes as readily as
to issues of global importance. I mean, it's probably not too hard for a
celebrity to support one or two important causes. But I think that it's
exhausting and to some extent precarious for an artist these days to
support many causes, especially the small, unproven ones (for example,
it's easy to do a benefit for MoMA, but the Photographic Resource
Center? An artists space with a staff of 3?).
I remember that the Seegers, Mike and Pete, could always be counted to
show up in support of local causes in the Hudson River valley area where
my grandfather lived, and where I spent a lot of time during high
school. I was always so impressed that they could function
simultaneously on local and international levels that way. I don't feel
that many artists today have that sense of commitment, and to see it in
Patti, Lenny, and Oliver makes me proud to support them. Their
commitment to the values that we share enables me to be *not* just a
consumer of their products, but, to some extent, a part of the its
creation. That kind of sharing is absent from most other
entertainer/artist/audience/venue relationships that I experience. And I
think that's what makes shows like Monday night's so wonderful and
renewing for us as supporters of Patti's artwork.
That's enough for now.
John
- --
jpjacob@bu.edu
Photographic Resource Center at Boston University
http://web.bu.edu/PRC
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 11:06:20 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: about razor..Occam's
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This has often been referred to as "Occam's razor", the desire to shave away
any excess conditions in an hypothesis or theory. Occam (Henry of ...?) as I
recall was a contemporary of the monk-philosopher Francis Bacon, the central
figure in "The Name of the Rose".
Antoine
***************
>>Rinaldo, you are such a tease. Somebody please translate?
>>
>>Douglas
>
>>> ENTIA NON SUNT MULTIPLICANDA
>>> PRAETER NECESSITATEM...
>>>
>
>please, excuse me, the translation is
>
> "IT IS VAIN TO DO WITH MORE
> WHAT CAN BE DONE WITH FEWER"
>
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 11:06:22 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: Lowell Kerouac organizers
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Jo, ...please bear with me on this Jo; not a flame war, and especially not
on the first day that we have our reply priveleges reinstated!; read on.
"It is a disgrace that" you have to be so vitriolic in your attack
on the idea of not including "Jack's daughter, Jan Kerouac, dead slightly
more than a year" ... "in this mass."
"This is such an overt act of hatred for a" situation that I suspect you
aren't that close to - although you were clearly very close to Jan. Why not
try to be "compassionate, generous" and understanding to those who are
celebrating this mass. Following your argument, one could easily ask why
Nin, Leo, Gerard and a host of others are not being similarly memorialized.
Why not Bill Burroughs since he was far closer to Jack and far more
important to him than Jan - or Stella for that matter!
Jan was a "talented writer/daughter" who unfortunately was never able to
forge a relationship with her father, but she has many friends and defenders
outside the Sampas - Kerouac circle, and there shouldn't be any need to
force Jack's error down the throats of the Lowell /Sampas group.
I - like you - probaly think it would be a nice closure to have Jan also
remembered in the way you suggest - but to force it grudgingly would not
honor Jan's memory.
"I can only hope that beats, be they students, scholars, readers, or
wannabees with heart, brains and gonads, will see that" this vain attempt to
form a union that never existed in life "ends--someday."
A lot depends on your perspective Jo, and mine has nothing to do with anyone
in Lowell or anyone named Sampas. Far better that we find our own ways to
honor Jan.
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 15:40:39 UT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Sign-off
well, friends, must sign-off to make my trip to the Fringe & International
Arts Festivals and a poetry class at the Univ of Edinburgh. will be back on
9/1.
hopefully, the damned unsubscribe thing will work.
enjoy the rest of the summer and keep it beat.
ciao, sherri
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:32:07 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: Sign-off
Comments: To: Sherri <love_singing@msn.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Damn shame about you having to go to Edinburgh. I will pray that you
are delivered from this doom.
Sherri wrote:
> well, friends, must sign-off to make my trip to the Fringe &
> International
> Arts Festivals and a poetry class at the Univ of Edinburgh. will be
> back on
> 9/1.
>
> hopefully, the damned unsubscribe thing will work.
>
> enjoy the rest of the summer and keep it beat.
>
> ciao, sherri
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 09:58:29 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Shannon L. Stephens" <shanstep@CS.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: spiritual glimpse (personal request)
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There is the potential for this message to go non-beat.
I'm discovering a spiritual apetite that was once squelched by
overbearing guardians with questionable intentions...
I'm now ready to re-investigate this side of experience and was wondering
if any listers would point me in the direction of beat or non-beat
spiritual script... My definition of "spirituality" is
limitless...perhaps you would be willing to share what you have found
meaningful...
I'd appreciate starting my search with some input from the list.
Thanks...
feel free to backchannel if this isn't Listworthy... although I would
enjoy seeing a beat spirituality thread start on this list....
-shannon (in Tucson, where the heat has somehow prompted my search for
god...)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 10:25:18 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: spiritual glimpse (personal request)
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Shannon writ:
<<
>feel free to backchannel if this isn't Listworthy... although I would
>enjoy seeing a beat spirituality thread start on this list....
>>
>
Well, in my mind, application of spirituality is always a good issue.
Was impressed, and am impressed more and more, by the example set by
poet, singer, artist Patti Smith. She's holy, holy and still retains
her personal space. that and she continually pays tribute to friends
and family that have passed away. She doesn't shy away from hecklers,
politics, or even uninhibited love of the Dali Lama. She is mercury
with a lizard gaze. Truly, she transcends, transcends.
Surely this is a beat quote unquote trait?
My "advice" would be to start reading more biographies. Pick someone
you like. and if they aren't famous, don't have anything written about
them, well.... you'll just have to listen. yep, listen.
Douglas :-)
PS: and people keep mentioning archives for this list, but I haven't
found em yet. There have been many posts that aided and abetted my own
>spiritual search. Maybe you too can find some solace in them.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 19:51:11 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: (FWD) burroughs' letter to kerouac on buddhism
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Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 06:33:45 -0800
From: bofus? <bofus@fcom.com>
To: bofus@fcom.com
Subject: burroughs' letter to kerouac on buddhism
Derek B Monypeny <dbm@U.Arizona.EDU> wrote:
>
>
> scene: burroughs is in morocco. the
> accidental shooting death of jane burroughs
> has already occurred. burroughs is in the
> process of writing what would become "naked
> lunch" and pining for allen ginsberg. he is
> replying to a letter from kerouac which
> stated, among other things, that kerouac
> had devoted himself to the study of
> buddhism and had renounced sex for good.
>
> ...I can't help but feeling that you are
> going too far with your absolute chastity.
> Besides, masturbation is NOT chastity, it
> is just a way of sidestepping the issue
> without even approaching the solution.
> Remember, Jack, I studied and practiced
> Buddhism (in my usual sloppy way to be
> sure). The conclusion I arrived at, and I
> make no claims to speak from a state of
> enlightenment, but merely to have attempted
> the journey, as always with inadequate
> equipment and knowledge (like one of my
> South American expeditions), falling into
> every possible accident and error, losing
> my gear and my way, chilled to the
> blood-making marrow with final despair of
> aloneness: What am I doing here a broken
> eccentric? A Bowery Evangelist, reading
> books on Theosophy in the public library
> (an old tin trunk full of notes in my cold
> water East Side flat), imagining myself a
> Secret World Controller in Telepathic
> Contact with Tibetan Adepts... Could I ever
> SEE the merciless, cold FACTS on some Winter
> night, sitting in the operation room white
> glare of a cefeteria - NO SMOKING PLEASE -
> see the facts AND MYSELF, an old man with
> the wasted years behind, and what ahead
> having seen the Facts? A trunk full of
> notes to dump in a Henry St. lot?... So my
> conclusion was that Buddhism is only for
> the West to STUDY as HISTORY, that is it is
> a subject for UNDERSTANDING, and Yoga can
> profitably be practiced to that end. But it
> is not, for the West, An ANSWER, not a
> SOLUTION. We must learn by acting,
> experiencing, and living; that is, above
> all, by LOVE and by SUFFERING. A man who
> uses Buddhism or any other instrument to
> remove love from his being in order to
> avoid, has committed, in my mind, a
> sacrilege comparable to castration. You
> were given the power to love in order to
> use it, no matter what pain it may cause
> you. Buddhism frequently amounts to a form
> of psychic junk... Because if there is one
> thing I feel sure of its this: That human
> life has DIRECTION. Even if we accept some
> Spenglerian Cycle routine, the cycle never
> comes back to exactly the same place, nor
> does it ever exactly repeat itself... When
> the potentials of any species are
> exhausted, the species becomes static (like
> all animals, reptiles and other so-called
> lower forms of life). What distinguished
> Man from all other species is that he
> CANNOT BECOME STATIC. "Er muss streben oder
> untergehen" (quotation is from myself in
> character of German Philosopher)-"He must
> continue to develop or perish."... What I
> mean is the California Buddhists are trying
> to sit on the sidelines and there ARE no
> sidelines. Whether you like it or not, you
> are committed to the human endeavor. I can
> not ally myself with such a purely negative
> goal as avoidance of suffering. Suffering is
> a chance you have to take by the fact of
> being alive. I repeat, BUDDHISM IS NOT FOR
> THE WEST. We must evolve our own
> solutions... I am having serious
> difficulties with my novel. I tell you the
> novel form is completely inadequate to
> express what I have to say. I don't know if
> I can find a form. I am very gloomy as to
> prospects of publication. And I'm not like
> you, Jack. I need an audience. Of course, a
> small audience. But still I need publication
> for development. A writer can be ruined by
> too much or too little success...
>
>
>
> From "Letters of William S. Burroughs
> 1945-1959." Edited with an introduction by
> Oliver Harris. Viking, 1993.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 20:09:33 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: about razor..Occam's
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%1997081411062000@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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hello all friends,
William of Occam, of course...
&
THE NAME OF THE ROSE
"stat rosa pristina nomine, nomina luda tenemu"
"the ancient rose is necessarily connected to her name,
we have got things without their name"
&
the medieval prior set the books on fire,
saluti,
Rinaldo.
*
BTW, i found a Ferlighetti's poem:
Walking through the University of Bologna
the oldest university in the world...
The usual protests by the usual students
stoning the administration
for Giordano Bruno
or Garibaldi
or Pasolini
or Lotta Continua
The usual statues under the arcades
or under the trees
Great yellow leaves
falling on them
And the gardens full of
stone philosophers
oblivious
above it all
having survived their own
dying fall
As I release a singing bird
from under my hat
And join the rearest demonstration
against virtual reality
led by Umberto Eco I suppose
or a wit that looks like him
waving a rose
--Lawrence Ferlighetti, "Italian Scenes"
*
--------
At 11.06 14/08/97 -0400,
Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET> wrote:
>This has often been referred to as "Occam's razor", the desire to shave away
>any excess conditions in an hypothesis or theory. Occam (Henry of ...?) as I
>recall was a contemporary of the monk-philosopher Francis Bacon, the central
>figure in "The Name of the Rose".
>
> Antoine
>
> ***************
>
>>>Rinaldo, you are such a tease. Somebody please translate?
>>>
>>>Douglas
>>
>>>> ENTIA NON SUNT MULTIPLICANDA
>>>> PRAETER NECESSITATEM...
>>>>
>>
>>please, excuse me, the translation is
>>
>> "IT IS VAIN TO DO WITH MORE
>> WHAT CAN BE DONE WITH FEWER"
>>
> Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
>
> "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"
> -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:42:07 -0700
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From: "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: in search of western lands
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Burroughs.
am beginning to gear up my search for his work. Have been trying to lay
some groundwork for his arrival. All the posts on this list regarding
his "western lands" and "letter to JK" have been wonderful. absolutely
wonderful. It's very unfortunate, therefore, that my local bookstore
doesn't carry these two items. :-(
So......., in the meantime......., I've been trying to build an
impression, the connotations, the questions I would bring to these works
----> Here's a snippet from Isidore Ducasse, Comte de Lautreamont that
sparked a few connections:
"Go on, keep marching straight ahead. I condemn you to become a
wanderer. I condemn you to remain alone, without a family. Keep
walking, until your legs refuse to carry you any further. Cross the
desert sands until the ending doom and the stars are swallowed up in
nothingness. When you pass by the tiger's lair, he will run headlong
away, to keep from seeing, as in a mirror, his nature raised up on the
pedastal of ideal perversity."
(Les Chants de Maldoror, 1868)
[from _Surrealists & Surrealism_, p21]
=-=-=--=-=-=
and then mixed in, all these stories about tapes being played in cars
returning from the WSB memorial. I wonder about the road kill, the
smelly remains of animals trying to cross the road. Horrible sight, I
know. Silly, inhumane to even mention it. Too obsess over it, the
headlights faint glance, the possible swerve, and the possible, minute
bump in the road. Perversity? Alone, without family? Desert sands?
Running away, mirrors, and pedastals of the ideal. Ompholos.
and Carolyn Cassidy's comments about fools only learning from
themselves. ??? This is empirical knowledge, yes? "Doctor, heal they
self" and all that. And being able to plumb your own depths/deaths,
well, who wants to advocate that? But how about being unable to face
yourself, being unable to avoid others who have made similar "perverted"
paths? I think being able to map out, within personal experience, via
biography or wisdom, that is a a a. that is enough, I figure. Chit
chat might have been useless, I don't know. <<probably>> But work, am
definately thinking about that. and Death, death, death does work.
sorry for the meandering, the philosophical babbling. [[and then
there's the WSB quote about death laying the seed for life...
Douglas
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 15:14:18 -0500
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: in search of western lands
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Penn, Douglas, K wrote:
>
> Burroughs.
>
> am beginning to gear up my search for his work. Have been trying to lay
> some groundwork for his arrival. All the posts on this list regarding
> his "western lands" and "letter to JK" have been wonderful. absolutely
> wonderful. It's very unfortunate, therefore, that my local bookstore
> doesn't carry these two items. :-(
>
> So......., in the meantime......., I've been trying to build an
> impression, the connotations, the questions I would bring to these works
> ----> Here's a snippet from Isidore Ducasse, Comte de Lautreamont that
> sparked a few connections:
>
> "Go on, keep marching straight ahead. I condemn you to become a
> wanderer. I condemn you to remain alone, without a family. Keep
> walking, until your legs refuse to carry you any further. Cross the
> desert sands until the ending doom and the stars are swallowed up in
> nothingness. When you pass by the tiger's lair, he will run headlong
> away, to keep from seeing, as in a mirror, his nature raised up on the
> pedastal of ideal perversity."
>
> (Les Chants de Maldoror, 1868)
> [from _Surrealists & Surrealism_, p21]
>
> =-=-=--=-=-=
>
> and then mixed in, all these stories about tapes being played in cars
> returning from the WSB memorial. I wonder about the road kill, the
> smelly remains of animals trying to cross the road. Horrible sight, I
> know. Silly, inhumane to even mention it. Too obsess over it, the
> headlights faint glance, the possible swerve, and the possible, minute
> bump in the road. Perversity? Alone, without family? Desert sands?
> Running away, mirrors, and pedastals of the ideal. Ompholos.
>
> and Carolyn Cassidy's comments about fools only learning from
> themselves. ??? This is empirical knowledge, yes? "Doctor, heal they
> self" and all that. And being able to plumb your own depths/deaths,
> well, who wants to advocate that? But how about being unable to face
> yourself, being unable to avoid others who have made similar "perverted"
> paths? I think being able to map out, within personal experience, via
> biography or wisdom, that is a a a. that is enough, I figure. Chit
> chat might have been useless, I don't know. <<probably>> But work, am
> definately thinking about that. and Death, death, death does work.
>
> sorry for the meandering, the philosophical babbling. [[and then
> there's the WSB quote about death laying the seed for life...
>
> Douglas
penguin paperback edition $12.95 us
isbn#0-14-009456-3
just to ease everybody's traumatized thoughts out there - rest assured
there were no roadkills from my legacy west from lawrence. not even a
bug splotch. but several birds successfully relieved themselves on my
little white automobile.
david rhaesa
salina, Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 23:35:46 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Lewis Warsh as a translator of avant-garde chinese poetry
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THIS IS NOT THE LAST
This is not the last
that's punished by language.
A new wooden house
is knocked down by a tree.
The prisoner
makes traps around himself.
If he's let out alive
he'll take the crimes with him.
He has no other shortcut.
A knife between life and death.
Light is cut open
and bent by the lonely sky.
The world is as painful as fate.
Words are shackles.
Once he's learned how to confess,
no one can ever defend him.
Translated by Wang Ping and Lewis Warsh
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:01:51 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Connie Urgena <connieu@COMPUTIZE.COM>
Subject: Re: spiritual glimpse (personal request)
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>Subject: spiritual glimpse (personal request)
>Sent: 8/14/97 11:58 AM
>Received: 8/14/97 12:07 PM
>From: Shannon L. Stephens, shanstep@CS.ARIZONA.EDU
>Reply-To: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List, BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>There is the potential for this message to go non-beat.
>I'm discovering a spiritual apetite that was once squelched by
>overbearing guardians with questionable intentions...
>
>I'm now ready to re-investigate this side of experience and was wondering
>if any listers would point me in the direction of beat or non-beat
>spiritual script... My definition of "spirituality" is
>limitless...perhaps you would be willing to share what you have found
>meaningful...
>
>I'd appreciate starting my search with some input from the list.
>
>Thanks...
>feel free to backchannel if this isn't Listworthy... although I would
>enjoy seeing a beat spirituality thread start on this list....
>
>-shannon (in Tucson, where the heat has somehow prompted my search for
>god...)
You might want to think twice about searching for god ...
"... the very nature and essence of every religious system is the
impoverishment, enslavement, and
annihilation of humanity for the benefit of divinity.
"God being everything, the real world and man are nothing. God being
truth, justice, goodness, beauty,
power, and life, man is falsehood, iniquity, evil, ugliness, impotence,
and death. God being master, man is
the slave. Incapable of finding justice, truth, and eternal life by his
own effort, he can attain them only
through a divine revelation. But whoever says revelation says revealers,
messiahs, prophets, priests, and
legislators inspired by God himself; and these, once recognized as the
representatives of divinity on earth,
as the holy instructors of humanity, chosen by God himself to direct it
in the path of salvation, necessarily
exercise absolute power."
--Michael Bakunin, God and State
complete text at
http://www.pitzer.edu/~dward/Anarchist_Archives/bakunin/godandstate/godands
tate_ch1.html
Granted, this a pretty hard line view, but upon careful study, it makes
sense.
Although you may get a lot of advice from the list, you will ultimately
find the answers within yourself. Douglas offered some very good advice
about reading more biographies. Take a close look at the people you
respect ... what do they value and why? I have recently been working on a
WSB memorial diptych and it has really given me perspective on who I am.
Creativity, brilliance, nerve, individuality ... these are the things I
value and admire, and they are the paths on which I travel.
Connie Urgena
connieu@computize.com
Web Development, Computize, Inc.
1030 Wirt Road * Suite 400 * Houston TX 77055
713.957.0057 x213 * 713.613.4812 fax
http://www.computize.com/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:25:49 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Double posts
Bill:
I tried doing this by backchanneling to you directly but the post came back.
We are suddenly get all messages in duplicate. What can be done? Do we
suddenly have two subscriptions? Please help. There is enough mail without
getting two of everything.
Thanks
Pam
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 07:15:48 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: spiritual glimpse (personal request)
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> Connie Urgena wrote:
>
> You might want to think twice about searching for god ...
>
> "... the very nature and essence of every religious system is the
> impoverishment, enslavement, and
> annihilation of humanity for the benefit of divinity.
>
> "God being everything, the real world and man are nothing. God being
> truth, justice, goodness, beauty,
> power, and life, man is falsehood, iniquity, evil, ugliness, impotence,
> and death. God being master, man is
> the slave. Incapable of finding justice, truth, and eternal life by his
> own effort, he can attain them only
> through a divine revelation. But whoever says revelation says
> revealers,
> messiahs, prophets, priests, and
> legislators inspired by God himself; and these, once recognized as the
> representatives of divinity on earth,
> as the holy instructors of humanity, chosen by God himself to direct it
> in the path of salvation, necessarily
> exercise absolute power."
>
> --Michael Bakunin, God and State
> complete text at
> http://www.pitzer.edu/~dward/Anarchist_Archives/bakunin/godandstate/godan> ds
> tate_ch1.html
>
> Granted, this a pretty hard line view, but upon careful study, it makes
> sense.
It makes sense only if your view of God is limited to that of religious
doctrine. I think that all the big three beat writers believed in God,
though not the God of the Bible, although Kerouac certainly carried
around guilt from early Catholicism. Most of his writing is, in fact, a
spiritual quest. I think that if you follow the spiritual theme in beat
literature, you are more likely to find a definition of God as an eternal
oneness in all things, even in man. In Burroughs even God was more seen
as an originator of things, even if the pre-record universe needed
shaking up a bit. Ginsberg would probably say that if God is truth,
justice, goodness, beauty, and life, then God is in you and in all
things, hence his thought that everything is holy. The text you quoted
seems to put man in the Christian context of needing salvation, of God as
an absolute power. Maybe God means more an absolute freedom, Burroughs'
universe without order, the ability to see eternity in all things here
and now. Others can disagree but I think the beats tended to look within
for spiritual glimpses as opposed to looking outward to a church-based
definition.
DC
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:09:57 -0700
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From: "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: Sign-off
Comments: To: Sherri <love_singing@msn.com>
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so now -
- you're back.
gotta get off sherri
clean the disaster
have to pack and pad
the baby line
it isn't a ciao ,
when i get most...
rofl
Douglas
>----------
>From: Sherri[SMTP:love_singing@msn.com]
>Sent: Thursday, August 14, 1997 4:57 PM
>To: Penn, Douglas, K
>Subject: RE: Sign-off
>
>rofl Douglas - you're the most... gotta get offline now - have to pack and
>clean the pad so it isn't a disaster when i get back.
>
>ciao baby,
>sherri
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 23:54:27 UT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Bye Bye
Comments: To: Stef <Ad_Libitum@msn.com>, HJW II <ArchibaldLeach@msn.com>,
Stuart Crosby <BRAVES10@msn.com>, Ron Vassel <BlizzardKing@msn.com>,
Michael Riddle <CENTERLINEDESIGN@msn.com>,
Cari Who ELSE???? <CittiGirl@msn.com>,
CURTIS SHIPE <DONDIMARIAN@msn.com>, db <Dee-Bee@msn.com>,
Don G <FarmCityboy@msn.com>, Homebrook <Homebrook@msn.com>,
Jason Tinling <JTinlng@msn.com>, Kevin Mathers <KEVMATH@msn.com>,
Kel Rayner <Manatbar@msn.com>,
the little people <MarmaladeSkies@msn.com>,
Kent <NoixDeGolf@msn.com>, Jim B <PBRUEGEL@msn.com>,
Ask and I might tell you <Peaceful-Warrior2@msn.com>,
R <ROcean@msn.com>, Blair <Reepoo@msn.com>,
James Sims <SimbaJim@msn.com>, Sharon <SopAndBass@msn.com>,
Tom Gummo <TGUMMO@msn.com>, tim/reba <the_saluki_experience@msn.com>,
Life is a sick joke and I'm the punchline <The_Boogey_Man@msn.com>,
rico <UNIR1@msn.com>, Mark <Vox_Amicus@msn.com>,
"e.e. cummings" <What-is_death@msn.com>,
Tanya Ceccatto <_AngelBaby@msn.com>, Michael <_Prometheus1@msn.com>,
S Johnson <doc11@msn.com>, Drew Eskenazi <drewesk@msn.com>,
Robert Lear <king_lear1@msn.com>, x <king_lear1@msn.com>,
PAUL KOLJESKI <koljeski@msn.com>,
Silver Surfer <mad-chatter@msn.com>, david simoni <oak123@msn.com>,
Kash Philips <philkash@msn.com>, Rico Mariani <ricom_ms@msn.com>,
Robert Eback <rleback@msn.com>, Stephen Baldwin <sabaldwin@msn.com>,
anniepoo <annh@ccrtc.com>, Doug Penn <dkpenn@oees.com>,
BigDaddyRico <Engelsguy@aol.com>, Joe Locey <JoePlaceb0@aol.com>,
Don Green <NYCDBG@aol.com>,
"S. Coart Johnson" <scoart@mindspring.com>, cj <sjohn111@aol.com>,
CVEditions@aol.com, Kent Smedley <Kent.Smedley@clorox.com>,
Arthur Nusbaum <SSASN@aol.com>,
THEBODYIS1@aol.com, runner711 <babu@electriciti.com>,
"R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@scsn.net>,
Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>,
Diane Carter <dcarter@together.net>, jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>,
Patricia Elliott <pelliott@sunflower.com>,
RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>, James Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
well, all you darlings, i'm off on my dream trip of a lifetime. off to
Scotland and England for 2 weeks... those of you for whom i have addresses, i
will try to send postcards, but please forgive me if i miss you, i've tried to
make sure they're in my address book - but as usual, i'm way short of time...
anyway, hope you all spend these last two weeks of the glorious summer
thoroughly enjoying yourselves and i'll see you online in a couple of weeks.
Diane - please continue to send me the "Ulysses" posts. i'm taking it with me
to read, so should keep up with the group... i'll have access to the internet
in some form at least during the major portion of my trip and if i'm inclined
and have any interesting thoughts will post while on the road.
ready to take the high road...
hugs & kisses to you all,
sherri
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 19:12:26 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Judith Campbell <boondock@POBOX.COM>
Subject: Burroughs Obit in Atlanta Creative Loafing
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http://www.creativeloafing.com/newsstand/current/v_bill.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 20:11:44 -0400
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Kerouac Festival Schedule
Comments: To: bfoye@aol.com, jsaint@tiac.net, tongues@tiac.net,
holladay@woods.uml.edu, fisher@program.com,
milton1@cliffy.polaraoid.com, wakonda@aol.tiac.net,
schorr@world.std.com, whalec@boat.bt.co.uk,
danbarth@mail.yokayo.uusd.k12.ca.us, cusimano@fas.harvard.edu,
valcomb@aol.com, goslow@phx.com, wxgbc@cunyvm.cuny.edu,
brooklyn@netcom.com, jhanson@penguin.com, hpark2@aol.com,
karmacoupe@aol.com, mhemenway@s1.drc.com, kalron@ix.netcom.com,
BeatRyder@aol.com, dave@scryber.com, radiofreeal@delphi.com,
news@globe.com, 100120.361@compuserve.com, iht@eurokom.ie,
nandq@guardian.co.uk, ciweekly@mailnfs0.tiac.net, arts@globe.com,
mnews@world.std.com, norbull@aol.com, 73174.3344@compuserve.com,
sfexaminer@aol.com, nlnews@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us, greenwre@apn.com,
brandx@winnipeg.cbc.ca, bnw@babylon.montreal.qc.ca,
the_future@tvo.org, iac@bbc-ibar.demon.co.uk, lateshow@pipeline.com,
foxnet@delphi.com, etv@unlinfo.unl.edu, nightly@nbc.ge.com,
wesun@clark.net, radio@ohiou.edu, wcvb@aol.com,
74201.2255@compuserve.com, wmbr-press@media.mit.edu, klmcomm@aol.com,
general@the-tec.mit.edu, wmbr-press@media.mit.edu, wmfo@tufts.edu,
allie.cat@genie.com, DawnDr@aol.com, kh14586@acs.appstate.edu,
skolowra@rykodisc.mhub.com, clv100u@m.BITNET,
ozart.fpa.odu.edu@mailnfs0.tiac.net, madhatter20@juno.com,
poetrypiza@aol.com, carter@mvlc.lib.ma.us, myhorseisdead@hotmail.com,
kathleen_fitzgerald@dbna.com, bookem@pacific.net
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From: Mark Hemenway[SMTP:mhemenway@igc.apc.org]
10th Annual Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! Festival 2-5 October 1997
Lowell, MA Jack Kerouac Celebrates Lowell
THURSDAY 2 OCTOBER
Barbara Concannon-Crete Memorial Poetry Prize- High School Poetry
9:00AM-11:00AM
Lowell High School Poetry Competition for High School Students-
for Information call 508-452-7966
Downtown Kerouac Places- Walking Tour
4:30-6:00 PM
Roger Brunelle leads a walking tour of Kerouac's downtown. Begins
at Middlesex Community College, ends at the Pollard Memorial
Library.
Images of Kerouac '97- Reception and Photography Exhibition
6:00PM- 8:00PM
Whistler House Museum of Art, 243 Worthen Street Open exhibition
of photography inspired by Jack Kerouac or the Beats. Entries
welcome. Deadline 12 September. Co-sponsored by the Whistler House
Museum of Art, 508-452-7641.
Jack Kerouac Literary Prize Award
7:00PM
Whistler House Museum of Art, 243 Worthen Street Presentation of
the 9th Annual Jack Kerouac Literary Prize. The prize is sponsored
by The Estate of Jack and Stella Kerouac, Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac!, Inc. and Middlesex Community College.
Dr Sax Nights- Walking Tours
8:00PM-10:00PM
Roger Brunelle leads a walking tour of Kerouac's Pawtucketville.
Tour begins at MacDonald's Mammoth Rd, ends at the Spaulding
House, Pawtucket Blvd. for discussion. Rain or shine.
Friends and Music
10:00PM-12:00PM
Greek Band, Greek food and Lowell Poets. The Athenian Corner
Restaurant, 207 Market Street.
FRIDAY 3 OCTOBER
3rd Annual Beat Literature Symposium
8:00AM-5:00PM
O'Leary Library, Room 222, South Campus, UMASS-Lowell 9:00AM-12:00
Noon - Presentation of Papers 2:00PM - Keynote Presentation by Ann
Douglas, Columbia University 3:00PM-5:00 - Panel discussions
Leading scholars present original research on beat authors,
writing techniques and cultural phenomena. No charge. For
information and pre-registration, call 508-934-2446. Sponsored by
the English Department and the Department of Continuing Education,
UMASS-Lowell.
Mystic Jack- Walking Tour
5:00PM-6:00PM
Begins and ends at St. Louis Church, Centralville. Tour by Roger
Brunelle.
Memorial Mass for Jack and Stella Kerouac
6:00PM-7:00PM
St. Louis de France Church, Centralville
Listen to the Beat- Readings
8:00PM-10:00PM
The Parkway Cafe, 350 Market Street Poets Vincent Ferrini,
Patricia Smith, Michael Brown, Lawrence Carradini, and Meg Smith.
Singer song-writer, Bob Martin present and evening of performance
poetry and music. Suggested donation $3.00.
Friends Music and Lowell Poets
10:00PM-12:00PM
Park Way Cafe
SATURDAY 4 OCTOBER
Nashua - Bus Tour
RESERVATIONS REQUIRED
9:00AM-1:00PM
9:00AM- Depart from Lowell Barnes and Noble. Reservations can be
made in person, or call 508-458-3939. 9:30AM- Depart Nashua, NH
Barnes and Noble. NH. For reservations, call Laura Eanes at
603-897-0777. A bus tour of Kerouac places in Nashua, NH.
Small Press Book Fair
10:00AM-4:00PM
Memorial Hall, Pollard Library A sampling of local presses and
Kerouac material. Co-sponsored by the Pollard Memorial Library and
Friends of the Library.
Commemorative at the Commemorative- Honoring Jack Kerouac and
Allen Ginsberg 11:00AM-12:00Noon The Kerouac Commemorative, Bridge
and French Streets
Strictly Kerouac- Dance
12:30-1:00 PM
The Courtyard at the Market Street Visitor's Center, Lowell
National Historical Park Jan Zwadney and a Feast of Friends
interprets Kerouac in dance, music and word.
Allen Ginsberg and Friends: A Photographic Remembrance
1:00PM- 3:00PM Brush Art Gallery, Market Street Visitors Center
Photographs by Gordon Ball, Elsa Dorfman, Gerard Malanga and Fred
McDarrah. Exhibition open from September 25 - November 16th.
Gallery Talk- Gordon Ball
1:30PM Brush Art Gallery, Market Street Visitor Center
Photographer and Ginsberg editor, Gordon Ball talks about
photographing Allen Ginsberg.
Poetry at the Rainbow Cafe 4:00PM-6:00PM Rainbow Cafe, Cabot
Street
Anne Waldman and Friends- A Tribute to Allen Ginsberg
8:00PM-10:00PM Smith Baker Auditorium, Merrimack Street-
Admission- $7.00 Anne Waldman, renowned poet, performer, and
editor leads a tribute to the Dharma Lion. James Cameron on
saxophone.
Music Friends and Lowell Poets 10:00PM -12:00 PM The Downstairs
Cafe, Merrimack Street
SUNDAY 5 OCTOBER The Jack Kerouac Tour- Bus Tour 9:30AM-11:30AM
RESERVATIONS REQUIRED Departs from Middlesex Community College,
Merrimack Street Bus tour of Kerouac's Lowell. Call 508-452-7966
for reservations. Please give name, phone number and number of
places reserved. Words and Music- Open Mic
1:00PM-3:00PM The Coffee Mill, Palmer Street.
Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!, Inc. is a non-profit corporation
dedicated to the celebration, enjoyment and study of Jack Kerouac
and his writings. Whenever possible, events are free, however,
donations are gratefully accepted for continued support of the
annual Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! Festival.. To make a donation,
or to find out more about Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!, Inc., write:
P.O. Box 1111, Lowell, MA 01853.
Before he died at age 47, Jack Kerouac published 24 books
chronicling the lives and adventures of the post war generation in
America. The raw energy and beauty of his prose established a new
standard in American literature. Jack Kerouac was born, raised and
remained a native of Lowell throughout his life. 5 of his novels
take place in Lowell, and the city is mentioned in virtually every
one of his books. His descriptions of Lowell are remarkable for
their beauty, power and timelessness. Through them, millions of
readers have come to know Lowell as a universal hometown.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:33:18 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: The sword-stick of truth and justice...
Comments: cc: Gerald Houghton <houghtong@globalnet.co.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
More from G. Houghton
regarding WSB
anybody out there feel like doing a little typin/scannin??
Douglas
<< start of forwarded material >>
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 23:35:46 +0100
To: runner <babu@electriciti.com>
From: houghtong@globalnet.co.uk (Gerald Houghton)
Subject: The sword-stick of truth and justice...
'New Musical Express' ran a double-page obit for WSB yesterday,
concentrating in particular on his connections with music. And a very fine
piece it was, not least because it made the point about him being funny that
so many have missed. It was topped out by a surprisingly good interview with
Bono of U2 about meeting/working with the man.
Nice pictures too.
And Tower Records book dept in London ran an ad in 'Time Out' magazine
saying farewell to the man. Didn't even say "come and buy all his books
posthumously" either. Wonders never cease.
This Saturday night (16th), BBC2 television in the UK are repeating their 90
minute 'Arena' special about WSB as a tribute.
Gerald Houghton
e-mail: houghtong@globalnet.co.uk
The Edge magazine homepage:
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~houghtong/edge1.htm
<< end of forwarded material >>
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ | 0 |
step aside, and let the man go thru | { - |
----> let the man go thru | /\ |
super bon-bon (soul coughing) =========
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:41:16 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: Burroughs Obit in Atlanta Creative Loafing
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970814191222.00a12c28@ellijay.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 4:12 PM -0700 8/14/97, Judith Campbell wrote:
> http://www.creativeloafing.com/newsstand/current/v_bill.htm
this WSB synopsis is a real send up. Slams Burroughs for just about
everything except for humor and a good reading voice. Oh, and Naked Lunch.
Author liked that one, the rest are shit apparently. Will gladly post or
forward as needed.
Douglas
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ | 0 |
step aside, and let the man go thru | { - |
----> let the man go thru | /\ |
super bon-bon (soul coughing) =========
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 23:01:51 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: PLEASE MR. JOHNSON
Comments: To: love_singing@msn.com, jwhite333@sprintmail.com, jamesstauffer
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
Gots to get some nice mail to you i worked on today. still on trip. dance
till 2-4 in the a.m to Luthur Allison, Elmore James and Big Joe Turner. Over
and over again baby, that old and backporch slide once in a while a good
blues sob with 'em good then put on my old lps to send messages. Chet Baker
singing old junk gone saddle oxfords and 48 ford conv. juck seater girl
heartbreack and now its more heart to break. and put on James Carr's "At the
Dark End of the Street" and some funk great earl hooker. even some george
jones oldies. that's really booze bawlin'
But every night. I wear those cd's out..can't stop...plus my baby's gone. the
one who drove me to Kansas and my other, Sherri, has hopped that plane and
gone.
Please Mr. Johnson....don't play the blues soo sad.
Spark the spirit
luv
cp
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 23:41:27 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Lowell Kerouac organizers
I have ended this kind of crap! It went out with greasy funded french fries.
Who wants to see Kerouac's Lowell in that kind of crowd, anyway?
C. Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 23:58:02 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Please Mr. Johnson
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Well, Charles, a wise sage named Jimi Hendrix once said:
"loneliness is such a drag"
"Well the morining is dead,
And the day is too"
but i say,
when you wake up in the moring,
and there ain't nothing you can do,
you know you got
dem Robert Johnson, dead shrimps, no ride, pass me by, on the riverside,
lien on my body, mortgage on my soul, hellhound on my trail, hot tamale,
chocolate malt, rosedale, no body seemed to know me, beatl blues!!!
Our thoughts and/or prayers are with you beatl blues buddy Richard.
Wish I could be there for that bag pipe jam. Not to mention the old
band shell. Should I bring my SG, or the Yamaha acoustic?
Peace to WSB, peace to Luther, and peace to all of us.
Think maybe Neal and Jack are diggin on Jimi, Luther and Train wailing
throughout the universe. I figure Bill is just taking it all in. I
guess they might let Miles sit in, eh?
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 02:41:26 +0000
Reply-To: letabor@cruzio.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <letabor@mail.cruzio.com>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: The Suedeutsche Zeitung obit in English, close, not perfect tran
From: Self <Leon>
To: BEAT-L@CNYVM>CNY>EDU
Subject: The Second German obit approximately translated
Send reply to: letabor@cruzio.com
Date sent: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 02:15:15
What a hatchet job! Note the title "Bill the Ripper". Her
Winkler
says that Burroughs was a crazy man, or maybe
just an american. Here comes another pseudo translation. Glad
to oblige Fred. Receiving thanks from Bill Gargan alone made it
worth doing. I am serious, Bill.
BTW some of you Beat Heads will be interested that the Cassady
home on Bancroft in Los Gatos, ( I also lived there with them
in 62 and 63), the house that Neil bought with the Railroad
accident money, was demolished today. Unfortunately John learned
about it only yesterday. It might have been another wake
occasion for us around here. Here is the Sueddeutsche Zeitung:
Bill The Ripper
At the death of America's prop holyman (?)
William S. Burroughs
Dear children, please do not imitate! According to eyewitness
reports it was only a party game. But while in the bowl proved
to be peyote and marijuana, Burroughs planted an apple upon the
head of his wife, played William Tell and shot. The appel
survived the play but Joan Vollmer was dead on the spot. Halfway
sensible people would now leave alone the fixing and the kief
and never again touch a weapon, but William Burroughs blew
himself up (?) further, what could be gotten with psychedelics.
In the introduction to Naked lunch (1959) he spoke of an
addiction that lasted 45 years; whoever visited him in the last
years had to first of all shoot tin cans. The man was plain to
see crazy.
Or American. Here he stood in 1990 on the stage of the Thalia
theater in Hamburg near Robert Wilson and Lou Reed, desperate in
his bookkeeper suit, a shrieveled grandfather, wrinkled and
scraggy to the smallest knuckle, no longer from this world, but
paced in his bodily shape (?), a funny pillar (?) of the
avantgarde, who had survived everything. His Musical Black
Rider was performed, a free defense (?) story - and again a
deadly bullet from love.
William Seward Burroughs, born 1914 in St. Louis as a son of
manufacturers, was really born for better things. Like his
landsman T. S. Elliot a quarter century before he went to
Harvard to study, then to Europe, but during that time he turned
around and made his enmity with the nightmare America. He
presented himself one nice day to the FBI and wanted to become a
secret agent. They sensibly turned him away. In response
(substitution) he became addicted to drugs and lived alone in
permanent fear of the police. One like Burroughs was born for
the great American Paranoia.
With the obstinance of his ancestors - these money earners and
strict moralist pillars of the community -, with the same
obstinacy Burroughs sought out every mania of this earthy (?)
world , lounged around in Tangiers, where he didn't tolerate the
sun, wrote even though he didn't know how and from what he would
make a living, he wrote in an intoxicated fit, like a maniac.
They are pretty hard to read, his books, cut up, he broke up his
texts into pieces until they were totally incomprehensible.
Repeatedly gathered anew and scattered again right away. But
did so much insanity need any method altogether? It should be
"pure meat", wrote to him his friend Alen Ginsberg in the book
"without symbolic sause". Woe to anyone who sees symbols in his
thousand-feeted, half animals and three quarter monsters!
Everything flesh from America's flesh, the plain truth, as
Burroughs saw it in madness. "I am", he assures, " I am only a
recording tool."
Roland Barthes harped extensively over the zero point (freezing
point?), where literature in 1960 ostensibly found itself, but
Burroughs didn't just describe that point, instead he pricked it
all the time, undertook constantly new experiments, he tore up
himself and his texts. The writer in his best quality as
slasher, withdrawal (drug addiction) treatments were then
necessary, one time by Dr. Wilhelm Reich, then by L. Ron
Hubbard, but neither the orgon machine nor the scientology
helped. And so he found himself after two wifes and one son
back at the pleasures of youth, to the memory of the first
stolen grips in strangers' undewrwear. Against so much life
the work does not hold up, for the one reason alone, because
after the early books it became method. But from Velvet
Underground because of Patti Smith until Kurt Cobain they
followed him - and wasn't he holy (a saint?)
In New York he entrenched himself in his small room in the
Bowery, four-fold bolted to protect himself from the tramps and
junkies outside, who could possibly overpower the old infirm
man, while he inside surrounded by swords, revolvers and porno
notebooks, painted how it was, to be overtaken by these wild
fellows.
In the end he returned to the middle west, to his xenophobes,to
the god fearing fellow citizens, fanatic like them and no less
paranoid. They knew precisely that the communists (alternatively
the jews, the catholics) poisoned the drinking water, or that
the CIA bred the aids virus in order to mess up all of humanity.
Burroughs collected all these stories and weighed them in his
heart. Then he shot again at his tin cans.
But please, dear children, not to immitate at home! Saturday
the good american William S. Burroughs, in Lawrence (Kansas),
at the age of 83 years, died.
Willi Winkler
leon
Leon Tabory
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 05:43:29 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Please Mr. Johnson
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
> Well, Charles, a wise sage named Jimi Hendrix once said:
>
> "loneliness is such a drag"
>
> "Well the morining is dead,
> And the day is too"
>
> but i say,
>
> when you wake up in the moring,
> and there ain't nothing you can do,
> you know you got
> dem Robert Johnson, dead shrimps, no ride, pass me by, on the riverside,
> lien on my body, mortgage on my soul, hellhound on my trail, hot tamale,
> chocolate malt, rosedale, no body seemed to know me, beatl blues!!!
>
> Our thoughts and/or prayers are with you beatl blues buddy Richard.
> Wish I could be there for that bag pipe jam. Not to mention the old
> band shell. Should I bring my SG, or the Yamaha acoustic?
>
> Peace to WSB, peace to Luther, and peace to all of us.
>
> Think maybe Neal and Jack are diggin on Jimi, Luther and Train wailing
> throughout the universe. I figure Bill is just taking it all in. I
> guess they might let Miles sit in, eh?
> --
> Bentz
> bocelts@scsn.net
>
> http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
lets not forget the "i followed her to the station with suitcase in my
hand - love in vain" blues . . .
david rhaesa
salina, Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 09:52:33 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "P.A.Maher" <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: New!!!! The Kerouac Quarterly Web Page
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Well. . .back from a trip to the Long Island Vineyards I have finally
finished the second Kerouac Quarterly and a brand new web page. This page
will highlight the latest goings-on in the Kerouac world . . .things to look
for in the future. Book reviews on Some of the Dharma, latest publishing
ventures, and whatever pops up in the future. If anyone has any news please
let us know here at the quarterly for all to see. Also, details about our
second issue. . .50 pp. in all. The Kerouac Quarterly can be visited at:
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/page1.html
Thanks, and bookmark the page! I will try to keep this as updated as possible.
Paul of TKQ. . .
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 08:27:30 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: WSB Journals
Comments: cc: dan@pint.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
it's always reassuring to know
that if I want the latest WSB info
I only need be subscribed to the
patti smith list
props to Dan Whitworth for da post
-Douglas
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
From: Dan Whitworth <dan@pint.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 13:59:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: WSB journals
The current New Yorker (Aug. 18 issue) features 2 pages of excerpts from
William Burrough's journals -- various entries from this spring up to August
1, the day of his heart attack. (And no, it doesn't suddenly trail off at
the end...) Plus Mapplethorpe's portrait of WSB in profile, eyes closed,
hands grasped (from mid or late '80s).
Now we wait for the inevitable Rolling Stone tribute, I suppose.
Later,
Dan W
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ | 0 |
step aside, and let the man go thru | { - |
----> let the man go thru | /\ |
super bon-bon (soul coughing) =========
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 08:31:59 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: Please Mr. Johnson
In-Reply-To: <33F432D1.58FF@midusa.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 3:43 AM -0700 8/15/97, RACE --- wrote:
> R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
> >
> > Well, Charles, a wise sage named Jimi Hendrix once said:
> >
> > "loneliness is such a drag"
<snip>
> lets not forget the "i followed her to the station with suitcase in my
> hand - love in vain" blues . . .
yeah, and how about the
"waiting by the telephone, toothpaste in my mouth blues
she ain't ever gonna call, might as well rinse blues
might as well shave, might as well shower
come on momma, give us a call blues
anybody interested in doing a tape swap?? David?
>
> david rhaesa
> salina, Kansas
Douglas [[headed to Lala tonight, to see my gal
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ | 0 |
step aside, and let the man go thru | { - |
----> let the man go thru | /\ |
super bon-bon (soul coughing) =========
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:45:11 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Theory about Burroughs death
In-Reply-To: <l03020900b01a25534c32@[208.193.147.146]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Heard an interesting theory about Burroughs death. Specifically, it has
been theorized that he lost his will to live, because the great love of
his life (at least in his mind) was Allen Ginsberg and Allen died a few
months earlier. And so he lost the will to live.
If you ever read Burroughs "Selected Letters", most of it was
correspondence between Burroughs and Ginsberg, and it is plainly clear
that Burroughs was obsessed with Ginsberg. Living in exile in Tangiers
in the 50's, Burroughs was lonely and isolated and fell in love with
Allen through a long correspondence. He returned to the states and was
intending to go live in San Francisco and start a life with Allen, when
Allen finally made it clear that he was *not* in love him. Apparently,
through the years, Allen had to deal at various times with Burroughs
obsession over him.
Anyway its not inconceivable, given the timing of both men's deaths,that
in some way, Burroughs was still in love with Allen at the timeof his
death. That he felt such a strong connection with Allen, that when Allen
died, there was an emptiness he couldnt deal with and he was finally
ready to die himself.
Perhaps, inside that cynical old body, was the heart of a hopeless
romantic who never stopped longing for the love he could never have.
RJW
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:04:22 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "P.A.Maher" <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: The Kerouac Quarterly Page updated !!!!
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The Kerouac Quarterly Page has been updated to include details on the sale
of Edie Kerouac Parker's personal Beat library from her estate.
Have a ball y'all!!!!
Bookmark to:
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/page1.html
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:49:58 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Theory about Burroughs death
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:45:11 -0400 from
<rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
It's real romantic but I don't think it's true.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 10:53:27 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Please Mr. Johnson
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
runner wrote:
>
> At 3:43 AM -0700 8/15/97, RACE --- wrote:
>
> > R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
> > >
> > > Well, Charles, a wise sage named Jimi Hendrix once said:
> > >
> > > "loneliness is such a drag"
>
> <snip>
>
> > lets not forget the "i followed her to the station with suitcase in my
> > hand - love in vain" blues . . .
>
> yeah, and how about the
> "waiting by the telephone, toothpaste in my mouth blues
> she ain't ever gonna call, might as well rinse blues
> might as well shave, might as well shower
> come on momma, give us a call blues
>
> anybody interested in doing a tape swap?? David?
>
> >
> > david rhaesa
> > salina, Kansas
>
> Douglas [[headed to Lala tonight, to see my gal
>
> http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ | 0 |
> step aside, and let the man go thru | { - |
> ----> let the man go thru | /\ |
> super bon-bon (soul coughing) =========
i was talking another robert johnson song. tape swaps??? hmm. i don't
have dual cassette technology.
david rhaesa
salina, Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:03:59 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Theory about Burroughs death
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Bill Gargan wrote:
>
> It's real romantic but I don't think it's true.
More likely that Fletch's death Affected him. i believe that some
research suggests more than merely a romantic connection of pets to
health.
david rhaesa
salina, Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 10:07:09 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization: Calgary Free-Net
Subject: patti smith list name, etc
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%1997081511505586@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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hey yall
i was wondering if anyone out there might be able to send me some info on
how to subscribe to the patti smith list that i read so much about in
these parts. sounds like something i should check out & if anyone out
there can help i would really appreciate it. (then again i already receive
enuf mail to keep me busy, ah well)
yrs
derek
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 09:22:45 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: patti smith list name, etc
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ha, my fiendish plan has worked... ;-)
but of course, I don't have the subscription info here at work
but if you head over to:
http://www.oceanstar.com/patti/
you should find all you need to know
(check under mailing list, I believe)
there's also a site-specific search engine
and while I haven't done this yet,
one should be able to conduct beat-specific
searches, Douglas
>----------
>From: Derek A. Beaulieu[SMTP:dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA]
>Sent: Friday, August 15, 1997 9:07 AM
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Subject: patti smith list name, etc
>
>hey yall
>i was wondering if anyone out there might be able to send me some info on
>how to subscribe to the patti smith list that i read so much about in
>these parts. sounds like something i should check out & if anyone out
>there can help i would really appreciate it. (then again i already receive
>enuf mail to keep me busy, ah well)
>yrs
>derek
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 01:08:31 -0700
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Theory about Burroughs death
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RACE --- wrote:
>
> More likely that Fletch's death Affected him. i believe that some
> research suggests more than merely a romantic connection of pets to
> health.
>
> david rhaesa
> salina, Kansas
You know I thought the same exact thing when I heard Fletch had died a
couple of weeks before.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 10:14:58 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: Theory about Burroughs death
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there's more mystery than we thought
deep caverns of pets and animals
sucking silently
oh deep tendrils, mmm sweet chastity
pent-up frustrations
harbor dwells
how many nights would I have died
without my loyal pets
<ahem> by my side?
I know my grandmother, when granddad died, lost her will to live. "No
more salt," we'd say. "No more coffee," we'd say. "Take your vitamins,
do your exercises," we'd say. And then that look in her eyes. She
wanted to die. Oh, I know that look. A succinct haiku that said fuck
you, I'm dyin.
We all cried. Who can say if this happened to WSB? I know I tried to
say that I loved her. That I'd be there for her. She didn't listen.
She died. Grandma, I miss you...
Douglas
>----------
>From: Diane Carter[SMTP:dcarter@TOGETHER.NET]
>Sent: Friday, August 15, 1997 1:08 AM
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Subject: Re: Theory about Burroughs death
>
>RACE --- wrote:
>>
>> More likely that Fletch's death Affected him. i believe that some
>> research suggests more than merely a romantic connection of pets to
>> health.
>>
>> david rhaesa
>> salina, Kansas
>
>You know I thought the same exact thing when I heard Fletch had died a
>couple of weeks before.
>DC
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:08:31 -0700
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Shannon L. Stephens" <shanstep@CS.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Searching
In-Reply-To: <33F31314.2157@together.net>
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My thanks to all who have taken the time to give me a little info as I
start an investigation that I hope continues for a very long time.
Many of you have taken a minute to share things that you have been drawn
to. That is exactly what I was looking for. Diane's post re: the
spiritual "motivations" of the beats is primarily why I shared my
question with the list.
My search for inhanced spirituality (and isn't it a shame that words do
very little to elaborate on what that may mean) is not limited to my
finding a "religion" in which to drown my sense of self. I have already
been exposed to that and in fact, that type of education in early life
separated me from any spiritual pursuits thus far.
I don't like using terms that seem to over define what I'm doing. I have
reached a point where I want to feel more alive... different levels. I've
had musical suggestions as well as text. All of things make up the
components of what I believe to be a full sensual life. Hell, if someone
suggested a great restaurant I'd give that a thought too. Nobody can
place someone's hand in the grasp of "god", but people on this list have
a knack for openness which I believe to be first and foremost the most
important aspect of spirituality. It's a search, a process. Thanks again
to those of you with the heart to share the two cents.
My question helped me to devour a bunch of pages of on the road last
night. Maybe I am becomming more open as well.
-shannon (nights thick with rain and electricity, temperatures going
down, expectations for a desert colorless yet joyful fall ahead...)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 14:22:00 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: FIRST_Rebecca LAST_ Last <Becca91894@AOL.COM>
Subject: see ya later
i hope i'm doing this right.
unsubcribe beat-L__rebecca last
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 14:34:02 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Theory about Burroughs death
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.970815113103.11569A-100000@cap1.capaccess.org>
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On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, Richard Wallner wrote:
> Heard an interesting theory about Burroughs death. Specifically, it has
> been theorized that he lost his will to live, because the great love of
> his life (at least in his mind) was Allen Ginsberg and Allen died a few
> months earlier. And so he lost the will to live.
Recently lost one of his cats, too, though I suspect others more close to
him will have more to say on this subject. In retrospect, I do think it odd
that I chose a sample of his ("When death becomes you...") as part of my
contribution to a net-based tape loop project going on in the weeks just
before his death. All those unsuspecting tape recorders playing this
message, just before he died -- hmm, I wonder if he would have gotten a kick
out of that.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:55:10 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: see ya later
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At 02:22 PM 8/15/97 -0400, you wrote:
>i hope i'm doing this right.
>
>unsubcribe beat-L__rebecca last
>
>
No.
I believe you need to send it to listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu
also don't put in the __
you'd send
unsubscribe beat-l Rebecca Last
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 15:00:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Burroughs and Ginsberg
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Regarding the speculation about Burroughs loving Ginsberg, the diary entries
in the New Yorker offer some interesting grist for this mill.
May 5, Monday
Allen died April 5, 1997.
Is it not fine to
Dance and Sing
While the bell of
Death do ring?
Turn on the toe
Sing out Hey Nanny Noo
If I should die think only this of me. That there's some corner of a foreign
field that is forever: Tangier; Mexico, D.F.; St. Louis, Mo.;...........
So why bother? You are old, Father William. Why stand on your head?
June 4, Wednesday
"J'aime ces types vicieux, qu'ici montrent la bite." I like the vicious
types who show the cock here. Anonymous, outside pissoir in Paris.
"Is it not fine to dance and sing while the bells of death do ring to turn
on toe and sing hey nanny noo." Yes I love life in all its variety but at
last the bell ringeth to eventide.
No mention of Fletch....who was one of his cats?
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:34:06 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: see ya later
----------
From: FIRST_Rebecca LAST_ Last[SMTP:Becca91894@AOL.COM]
Sent: Friday, August 15, 1997 11:22 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: see ya later
i hope i'm doing this right.
unsubcribe beat-L__rebecca last
.-
begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT
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"9L<`
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end
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:29:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Please Mr. Johnson
Comments: To: jwhite333@sprintmail.com
Thanks Bentz
Read yr post at the right moment. thanks. Robert Johnson always there.'ve
been playing that old bobbie=sox juncky, Chet Baker's songs over and over
today. "there will never be another you," "I get along without you very well
(of course I do)"... and "My Buddy" My Funny Valentine." I'm trying to kick
everything, today. Even Love. I've been drinking a bile cat's claw tea bark
and diet coke mixture. Not as bad as peyote juice though. The idea is to have
some nasty to remind me of the toxins i put in my system. I'm also drinking
"Ensure" which Beat-l member Mike supplied me (many). It tastes like
decontaminated, processes and sweetened baby shit! The idea of all this taste
and stomach distress, is, I guess, so my heart will direct its pity to my
guts!!!!!!! Now there's one for you. Anyway, I decided only a aged
suicidal maniac would listen to Chet Baker over and over, so I'll find my
Robert Johnson. Or maybe Mississippi Joe Callicot.."You don't know my
mind"..Ya
Charles Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:55:35 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Sun Lao Tze
By God that Tuscon heat is enough to do it every time! I used to take Peyote
there in my ritual northest of town out toward that facade cowboy town. Walk
out there barefoot an lie on a rock. The stone is cold and moist in
its manifest part, and in its hidden part is hot and dry
Seek the coldness of the moon and you shall find the heat of the sun.
C. Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 17:00:05 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Please Mr. Johnson
In a message dated 97-08-15 06:45:39 EDT, you write:
<< lets not forget the "i followed her to the station with suitcase in my
hand - love in vain" blues . . .
>>
Ah yes, and "I keep folding up inside just like the clothes I'm folding"
-George Jones
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 17:05:23 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Please Mr. Johnson
"Every time I pack ,I doulbe up inside just like the clothes I'm folding/"
was the line from George Jones
C. Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 17:17:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Please Mr. Johnson
In a message dated 97-08-15 13:00:15 EDT, you write:
<<
anybody interested in doing a tape swap?? David? >>
Oh yeah..why didn't you tell me in lawrence, and i'd have dumped a whole
bunch of never to be assembled again rarities.. cp
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 17:22:32 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: in search of western lands
The number of dead animals on the road is something i've been remorsing with
too, it's a sign
as far as C.C. right on. Finkout.
C. Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 17:48:27 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: Please Mr. Johnson
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Pamela Beach Plymell wrote:
> Thanks Bentz
> Read yr post at the right moment. thanks. Robert Johnson always
> there.'ve
> been playing that old bobbie=sox juncky, Chet Baker's songs over and
> over
> today. "there will never be another you," "I get along without you
> very well
> (of course I do)"... and "My Buddy" My Funny Valentine." I'm trying
> to kick
> everything, today. Even Love. I've been drinking a bile cat's claw tea
> bark
> and diet coke mixture. Not as bad as peyote juice though. The idea is
> to have
> some nasty to remind me of the toxins i put in my system. I'm also
> drinking
> "Ensure" which Beat-l member Mike supplied me (many). It tastes like
> decontaminated, processes and sweetened baby shit! The idea of all
> this taste
> and stomach distress, is, I guess, so my heart will direct its pity to
> my
> guts!!!!!!! Now there's one for you. Anyway, I decided only a aged
> suicidal maniac would listen to Chet Baker over and over, so I'll find
> my
> Robert Johnson. Or maybe Mississippi Joe Callicot.."You don't know my
> mind"..Ya
>
> Charles Plymell
Charles:
I must say that I enjoy your company, even on the www. I hope to visit
with you one day. But, I will bring my own food!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Try
some Colt 45 or Country Club Malt liquor. That will knock it out, and
cold. Me, I take a Bud or a Beck's these days.
Going down the road feeling bad,
Going down the road feeling bad,
Going down the road feeling bad, Lord Lord,
Ain't gonna be treated thisaway.
She can break in on a dollar most anywhere she goes
And from the Alpha of the Allman Brothers:
I fell like I been tied to the whipping post,
Good lord I feel like I'm dying.
And from the Omega of the Allman Brothers:
Nobody left to run with anymore.
Figure you can feel both of those blues. Take a listen,
And damn, how can your system tolerate that much Chet. He was a sad sad
case, beautiful and could play, but sad, sad sad.
Allmans one more time:
Just one more morning,
I've got to wake up with the blues,
Get my self together,
And put on my walking shoes,
Cause I hunger
For those dreams, I've never seen.
And to my main man Van Morrison:
Call me up in dream land,
Radio to me Sam,
Get your message to me
Any way you can,
Never to grow old,
On the saxaphone,
In my own words:
Death's Hand is a Loser
(For Patricia and Charles who have lost a friend.)
(For Richard who has lost a blues man.)
When the cards are dealt,
Death's hand is a loser.
And loss is with us.
Beyond this we can not say.
But have you seen death alive?
No. The losing hand.
And what is that.
It is loss.
And what is that.
Loss is gone,
But you're here.
Loss is selfish,
What you're missing.
Loss is true,
What you need.
Loss is false,
The illusion.
Loss is hurt,
Part is gone.
Loss is maddness,
Unresolved, broken.
Loss is death,
Part of you too.
Loss is gain,
Winter blends to Spring.
Loss is broken,
Knowing feelings never come again.
Loss is us,
Born to die to birth again.
A touch, a glance,
A calm reassurance.
A certainty, now uncertain.
A feeling spinning thorough cosmic dust.
Creating, playing, play on.
Play on jazz man,
Play on blues man,
Play on Chet,
Rave on Charles,
Rave on madman,
Rave on Charles,
Rave on Angel,
Rave on Buddy Holly,
Rave on P,
Rave on sunflowers,
Rave on cats,
Rave on James,
Rave on Bill,
Rave on Allen,
Rave on Jack,
Rave on Neal,
Rave on Junkie,
Rave on Junky,
Rave on Bull Lee,
Rave on Sherri,
Rave on James,
Rave on Charles,
Rave on Arthur,
Rave on Roland Kirk,
Rave on Richard,
Rave on Luther,
Rave on Miles,
Rave on Train,
Rave on Jesus,
Rave on Judas,
Rave, rave, rave, rave, rant, rave, rave, rave, rave,
Rave on me.
Take care,
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:02:55 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Eric Blanco <Chimera@WEBTV.NET>
Subject: Re: Please Mr. Johnson
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV)
Hello Bentz:
somewhere in between reading your last
post ("Death's hand is a loser...") and
listening to Blonde On Blonde I managed
to see a bright side to....things.
Here's to a great weekend-to
you and everyone on the list.
Chimera
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 15:04:10 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: in search of western lands
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
C wrote:
><<The number of dead animals on the road is something i've been remorsing
>with too, it's a sign
>as far as C.C. right on. Finkout.
>>
you're being poetic cryptic again, Charles. p l e a s e translate.
the C.C. part reminds me of broken headlights...
>> C. Plymell
Douglas
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:17:44 -0600
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From: "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization: Calgary Free-Net
Subject: ferling, etc
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yall
i was just wondering if anyone knew when ferlinghetti's newest book of
poems was due (wasnt there some talk about him writing a book of poems
that was a "reply" (or something along those lines) to _a coney island of
the mind_?) also- is he witing or solely involved with painting/sketching
(which i understand he's emphasizing these days) and running city lights?
thanks for info, etc
bahoo.
yrs
derek
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:14:29 -0400
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From: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Carl Jung prophesy c/o Burroughs
from Albany, NY September, 1909
Everything is too big, too immeasurable. Something that has gradually been
dawning upon me in the past few days is the recognition that here an ideal
potentiality of life has become reality. Men are as well off here as the
culture permits; women badly off. We have seen things here that inspire
enthusiastic admiration, and things that make one ponder social evolution
deeply. As far as technological culture is concerned, we lag miles behind
America. But all that is frightfully costly and already carries the germ of
the end in itself. -- Carl Jung - Memories, Dreams, Reflections
Charles Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 15:28:36 -0700
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From: "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: Please Mr. Johnson, Hand Me a Winner
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Bentz, I've remixed your poem.
This goes against all conventions, I know. and I'm sorry if this
version offends you in any way. I like the hustler card game images,
the ranting and raving, the thrufare reethum of it all. Let me know
what you think. Since, Douglas
+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
R Bentz writ,
runner mixed:
(v8/15/97)
>In my own words: <ahem>
>
>Death's Hand is a Loser
>(For Patricia and Charles who have lost a friend.)
>(For Richard who has lost a blues man.)
>When loss is with us
we can not say
>the cards are dealt,
>Death's hand is a loser.
>And .
>Beyond this .
The losing hand is what
>No. .
>And It is that loss.
hav[ing] seen death alive
>But you ?
>
>And what is that.
>Loss is gone,
>But you're here.
>Loss is selfish,
>What you're missing.
>Loss is true,
>What you need.
>Loss is false,
>The illusion.
>Loss is hurt,
>Part is gone.
>Unresolved, broken.
>Loss is Loss is Loss is
>Loss is
>Loss is us,
>
maddness,
death,
Part of you too.
gain,
broken,
>Winter blends to Spring.
>Knowing feelings never come again.
>Born to die to birth again.
>A touch, a glance,
>A calm reassurance.
>A certainty, now uncertain.
>A feeling spinning thorough cosmic dust.
>Creating, playing, play on.
Rave on
>Play on Play on Play on
>
> jazz man,
> Chet,
> blues man,
>Rave on Rave on Rave on
>
> Charles,
> madman,
> Charles,
>Rave on
>Angel, P, Buddy Holly,
>
>
>Rave on
>Rave on
>Rave on sunflowers, cats,
>Rave on
>Rave on James,
>Rave on Bill,
>Rave on
> Allen,
> Jack,
Neal,
Junkie,
> Junky,
Rave on Bull Lee,
>Rave on
>Rave on
>Rave on
>Rave on Sherri,
>Rave on James,
>Rave on Charles,
>Rave on Arthur,
>Rave
>on Roland Kirk,
> Richard,
> Luther,
> Miles,
> Rave on Train,
>Rave on Jesus,
>Judas, (Rave on)
>
>Rave, rave, rave, rave, rant, rave, rave, rave, rave,
>Rave on me.
(Rave on Rave on Rave on )
>
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 15:31:51 -0700
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From: "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: green tit
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from Last Words (New Yorker p37):
<<
May 24, Saturday,
[snip] A few drags on the green tit and I can see multiple ways out and
beyond. so why all this head on this harmless and rewarding substance?
>>
problem I have with marijuana is that it occasionally leaves me
jellyfish, pocked with enough holes I feel beehived. sure it brings the
rain, eases the pain, and generally lights up my life. sure. then
there are days that that suffer upon fools their fate.
and talking to people, fixating on objects outside the self. walking
around with my hands high low. the air parting my lips in stuttered
thoughts. just another asshole flapping his lips, I figure.
that's what's wrong, Mr. Burroughs.
Douglas
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:35:59 -0400
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: Please Mr. Johnson, Hand Me a Winner
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Douglas:
Thank you. Does this qualify as a cut up?
Penn, Douglas, K wrote:
> Bentz, I've remixed your poem.
>
> This goes against all conventions, I know. and I'm sorry if this
> version offends you in any way. I like the hustler card game images,
> the ranting and raving, the thrufare reethum of it all. Let me know
> what you think. Since, Douglas
>
> +_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
>
> R Bentz writ,
> runner mixed:
> (v8/15/97)
>
> >In my own words: <ahem>
> >
> >Death's Hand is a Loser
> >(For Patricia and Charles who have lost a friend.)
> >(For Richard who has lost a blues man.)
>
> >When loss is with us
> we can not say
> >the cards are dealt,
> >Death's hand is a loser.
>
> >And .
> >Beyond this .
> The losing hand is what
> >No. .
> >And It is that loss.
> hav[ing] seen death alive
> >But you ?
> >
> >And what is that.
> >Loss is gone,
> >But you're here.
> >Loss is selfish,
> >What you're missing.
> >Loss is true,
> >What you need.
> >Loss is false,
> >The illusion.
> >Loss is hurt,
> >Part is gone.
>
> >Unresolved, broken.
>
> >Loss is Loss is Loss is
> >Loss is
> >Loss is us,
> >
> maddness,
> death,
> Part of you too.
> gain,
> broken,
>
> >Winter blends to Spring.
> >Knowing feelings never come again.
> >Born to die to birth again.
> >A touch, a glance,
> >A calm reassurance.
> >A certainty, now uncertain.
> >A feeling spinning thorough cosmic dust.
> >Creating, playing, play on.
> Rave on
>
> >Play on Play on Play on
> >
> > jazz man,
> > Chet,
> > blues man,
>
> >Rave on Rave on Rave on
> >
> > Charles,
> > madman,
> > Charles,
>
> >Rave on
>
> >Angel, P, Buddy Holly,
> >
> >
> >Rave on
>
> >Rave on
>
> >Rave on sunflowers, cats,
> >Rave on
> >Rave on James,
> >Rave on Bill,
>
> >Rave on
>
> > Allen,
> > Jack,
> Neal,
> Junkie,
> > Junky,
> Rave on Bull Lee,
>
> >Rave on
> >Rave on
> >Rave on
> >Rave on Sherri,
> >Rave on James,
> >Rave on Charles,
> >Rave on Arthur,
>
> >Rave
>
> >on Roland Kirk,
> > Richard,
> > Luther,
> > Miles,
> > Rave on Train,
>
> >Rave on Jesus,
> >Judas, (Rave on)
> >
> >Rave, rave, rave, rave, rant, rave, rave, rave, rave,
> >Rave on me.
> (Rave on Rave on Rave on )
> >
> >
> >
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 15:49:28 -0700
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From: "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: Please Mr. Johnson, Hand Me a Winner
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Bentz writ:
<<
>Douglas:
>
>Thank you. Does this qualify as a cut up?
>>
or a fuckup. Stole the idea from my friend Annabelle who did the same
thing to me once. Took my email and snipped and tucked it into a new
machine. Have been reading a little bit more about surrealism recently,
but haven't really absorbed anything that would allow me to be
definitive regarding a name for this process.
cut-up works.
have a bunch of those magnet poem words on my fridge. can't figure out
for the life of me what to do with em. On other people's fridges, they
are easy to spit and parse. But my own works.... so, I steal and
borrow and beg my influences most of the time. If anything, if you take
a given work and dice it up like I did yours, then you have to figure
out what to do with all the *extra* pieces. As well, when you <ahem>
deconstruct a work, you get a chance --as that anarchist's WSB .sig
says-- to see what message the recorder was playin.
and I'm still rereading both versions. goin for the big picture. glad
you liked it. Was a bit worried how you'd receive. Now if only we
could put it to music.... a fast, choppy chorus <perhaps> with lots of
bridges and transitions, but but .... with a really cool Leonard Cohen
"hallelujah" overall feel to it. ???
Douglas
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=
>Penn, Douglas, K wrote:
>
>> Bentz, I've remixed your poem.
>>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:56:35 -0400
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: Please Mr. Johnson, Hand Me a Winner
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Penn, Douglas, K wrote:
> Bentz writ:
>
> <<
> >Douglas:
> >
> >Thank you. Does this qualify as a cut up?
> >>
>
> or a fuckup. Stole the idea from my friend Annabelle who did the same
>
> thing to me once. Took my email and snipped and tucked it into a new
> machine. Have been reading a little bit more about surrealism
> recently,
> but haven't really absorbed anything that would allow me to be
> definitive regarding a name for this process.
>
> cut-up works.
>
> have a bunch of those magnet poem words on my fridge. can't figure
> out
> for the life of me what to do with em. On other people's fridges,
> they
> are easy to spit and parse. But my own works.... so, I steal and
> borrow and beg my influences most of the time. If anything, if you
> take
> a given work and dice it up like I did yours, then you have to figure
> out what to do with all the *extra* pieces. As well, when you <ahem>
> deconstruct a work, you get a chance --as that anarchist's WSB .sig
> says-- to see what message the recorder was playin.
>
> and I'm still rereading both versions. goin for the big picture.
> glad
> you liked it. Was a bit worried how you'd receive. Now if only we
> could put it to music.... a fast, choppy chorus <perhaps> with lots of
>
> bridges and transitions, but but .... with a really cool Leonard Cohen
>
> "hallelujah" overall feel to it. ???
>
> Douglas
Maybe kind of like "So Long Marianne"?
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 19:02:13 -0400
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From: Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: ferling, etc
Derek et al -
The Ferlinghetti book you mention is already out -
It's a hardcover titled "A Far Rockaway of the Heart" from New Directions.
The price is $21.95. (shipping included) -
We've got plenty of copies in stock -
Jeffrey
Water Row Books
Did you get your Beat-L T-shirt yet?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:08:37 -0700
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From: "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: Please Mr. Johnson, Hand Me a Winner
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Bentz wrote:
>> Maybe kind of like "So Long Marianne"?
Don't know that one. Why don't you hum a few bars. Hell, if we lived
closer, we could probably burn a few bars, cutup style. We'll give CP
some peyote and make him drive ;-) <<wicked evil grin>>
> Douglas
>--
>
>Peace,
>
>Bentz
>bocelts@scsn.net
>http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 20:03:20 -0400
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From: Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: Please Mr. Johnson
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...or "We didn't know what to call it
So we called it quits...."
Antoine
**************
>In a message dated 97-08-15 06:45:39 EDT, you write:
>
><< lets not forget the "i followed her to the station with suitcase in my
> hand - love in vain" blues . . .
> >>
>Ah yes, and "I keep folding up inside just like the clothes I'm folding"
>-George Jones
>
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 20:47:20 -0400
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From: Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Slim Gaillard and Jack...and the hipsters
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Thought the text further on was a great description of Kerouac:
I've read the parts in "On The Road" that refer to Jack and Neal
watching Slim Gaillard in clubs, so it was interesting finding this
interview, with Slim talking about Jackl. Anyone who hasn't had a chance to
hear him on record, search him out.
He was one of a small group of unique performers that straddled the
Bebop / Beat era. They included Harry 'the Hipster' Gibson, Richard 'Lord'
Buckley, Babs Gonzales, Leo Watson, Lenny Bruce, King Pleasure cooking up a
melange of songs, spoken word, great performance, vocalese, scat....all
intersecting with each other.
These quotes are from a large format paperback pictorial called "The Hip:
Hipsters, Jazz and the Beat Generation". Published in England in 1986 by
Faber & Faber; written by three well known English music journalists, Roy
Carr, Brian Case and Fred Dellar.
*****Slim Gaillard on Jack Kerouac**********
'Having Jack write about me in "On The Road" is a nice thing to have on your
report card.
'He was a great listener=85really admired my work...
....When I played "The Say When Club" in San Francisco, Jack showed
up every night.=85would stand with his back against the wall and while he
listened all the girls would cruise by and admire him. Between sets, I'd
stand there right next to him. We were both so sharp we made a Gillette
blade look like a hammer.
'There was one girl =97 owned two-thirds of Palm Springs =97 who'd keep=
telling
me, "Slim, you're the most fantastic guy I=92ve ever seen!" Anyway, I wasn't
about to argue=85Then, one night when I came to the club, there was a key on
the piano with my name on it. She'd gone out and bought me a brand new car
as a little token=85hey! It's good to be handsome!'
He laughed, wiped up the remains of the eggs with bread roll, and chased it
all down with a bottle of Perrier.
******from "On the Road"*******
Now Dean [Moriarty] approached him, he approached his God: he
thought Slim [Gaillard] was God: he shuffled and bowed in front of him and
asked him to join us.
'Right-orooni', says Slim; he'll join anybody but won't guarantee to
be with you in spirit. Dean got a table, bought drinks, and sat stiffly in
front of Slim. Slim dreamed over his head. Every time Slim said, 'Orooni,'
Dean said, 'Yes!'
I sat there with these two madmen. Nothing happened. To Slim
Gaillard the whole world was just one big orooni.
*******from Miles Davis*******
"There are only two men that I look up to...
Slim Gaillard and Dizzy Gillespie. Without them I wouldn't be=
playing."
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to=
do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:19:27 -0700
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Slim Gaillard and Jack...and the hipsters
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Cool cool post Antoine, appreciate it
all I can say is
flat foot floogie with the floy floy
(OK OK for 20 points and the lead what PBS show did our man Jack utter those
abovementioned quotes from Mr Gaillard?)
At 08:47 PM 8/15/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Thought the text further on was a great description of Kerouac:
>
> I've read the parts in "On The Road" that refer to Jack and Neal
>watching Slim Gaillard in clubs, so it was interesting finding this
>interview, with Slim talking about Jackl. Anyone who hasn't had a chance to
>hear him on record, search him out.
>
> He was one of a small group of unique performers that straddled the
>Bebop / Beat era. They included Harry 'the Hipster' Gibson, Richard 'Lord'
>Buckley, Babs Gonzales, Leo Watson, Lenny Bruce, King Pleasure cooking up a
>melange of songs, spoken word, great performance, vocalese, scat....all
>intersecting with each other.
>
>These quotes are from a large format paperback pictorial called "The Hip:
>Hipsters, Jazz and the Beat Generation". Published in England in 1986 by
>Faber & Faber; written by three well known English music journalists, Roy
>Carr, Brian Case and Fred Dellar.
>
>*****Slim Gaillard on Jack Kerouac**********
>
>'Having Jack write about me in "On The Road" is a nice thing to have on=
your
>report card.
>'He was a great listener=85really admired my work...
>
> ....When I played "The Say When Club" in San Francisco, Jack showed
>up every night.=85would stand with his back against the wall and while he
>listened all the girls would cruise by and admire him. Between sets, I'd
>stand there right next to him. We were both so sharp we made a Gillette
>blade look like a hammer.
>
>'There was one girl =97 owned two-thirds of Palm Springs =97 who'd keep=
telling
>me, "Slim, you're the most fantastic guy I=92ve ever seen!" Anyway, I=
wasn't
>about to argue=85Then, one night when I came to the club, there was a key=
on
>the piano with my name on it. She'd gone out and bought me a brand new car
>as a little token=85hey! It's good to be handsome!'
>He laughed, wiped up the remains of the eggs with bread roll, and chased it
>all down with a bottle of Perrier.
>
>******from "On the Road"*******
>
> Now Dean [Moriarty] approached him, he approached his God: he
>thought Slim [Gaillard] was God: he shuffled and bowed in front of him and
>asked him to join us.
>
> 'Right-orooni', says Slim; he'll join anybody but won't guarantee=
to
>be with you in spirit. Dean got a table, bought drinks, and sat stiffly in
>front of Slim. Slim dreamed over his head. Every time Slim said, 'Orooni,'
>Dean said, 'Yes!'
>
> I sat there with these two madmen. Nothing happened. To Slim
>Gaillard the whole world was just one big orooni.
>
>*******from Miles Davis*******
>
> "There are only two men that I look up to...
> Slim Gaillard and Dizzy Gillespie. Without them I wouldn't be=
playing."
>
>
> Antoine
> Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
>
> "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to=
do!"
> -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 21:45:37 -0400
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: Slim Gaillard and Jack...and the hipsters
Mime-Version: 1.0
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And to add to Tim's quiz...
Who was Slim's musically famous son-in-law? He even had slim on a
record of his in the 80's!
Antoine
****************
Cool cool post Antoine, appreciate it
>
>all I can say is
>
>flat foot floogie with the floy floy
>
>(OK OK for 20 points and the lead what PBS show did our man Jack utter those
>abovementioned quotes from Mr Gaillard?)
>
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 22:41:19 -0400
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Chet and I
Comments: To: jwhite333@sprintmail.com
God, I didn't know you knew him. I used to fantasize to his music in eary
fifties. I had a vision of him beside a 48 Ford conv. with his arms around a
chick in the perfect new suburb, but always saying goodbye so beautifully
frank. That's first tip somethings happening! He sand his sad subtle songs
so mellow it can make your bones cry, the whole flower bleed.
C. Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 23:20:35 -0400
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: Chet and I
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Charles,
Who knew him? ...have we got a hitherto unknown jazz resource on
the list?
Ross Porter of CBC: Canadian Broadcasting Corporation put together a
great three hour / three part series on Baker that aired earlier this year
and again this past three weeks. It was a great blend of music and history.
Ross does a late night jazz show five days a week on the national FM band.
He interviewed a ton of people and even went so far as to spend a
night in the hotel room in Amsterdam from where Chet fell (...or was
pushed?) to his death. He spoke to the police locally who were sure he was
probably not pushed. Ross did think that it was pretty unlikely that it was
an accident with Chet just lounging at the window since the window
construction would have made that awkward. His girlfriend seemed to think it
was probably suicide since he had been so distraught about her going back to
the States when he got to be too much to deal with.
The book I mentioned earlier tonight had a lovely section on him.
One of the writers describes bumping into Chet late one rainy night in some
town in the midlands of England. He was bent over sideways looking into a
pawnshop at a trumpet trying to see if he could make out the maker''s mark.
The cover is a great bluetone picture of Chet, tee-shirt and jacket, sitting
on a folding chair with leg, white socks, loafers, tossed up onto the next
one; a shockingly young looking Chet taken by Bob Willoughby in
1953...especially so when one is used to his appearance in later years.
In Ross Porter's series he described Chet being stopped speeding by
a highway patrol officer who was all set to slam him, but then caught sight
of some albi\ums piled in the back seat. Asked "Chester Baker? ....are you
Chet Baker??" ...and collapsed in dizzy fan frenzy.
Where did Chet stand in the Beat musical pantheon? Was he considered
not edgy enough?
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 23:20:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: about razor..Occam's
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Thanks for adding the William for me Rinaldo and for choosing such a perfect
Ferlinghetti poem as a response! Which collection is it from?
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 19:28:31 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Lew Welch Events, New posting Format
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This am. Chron here in SF had a nice story on Lew in connection with the
releast of Magda Cregg's book on Lew which I have not yet seen. Magda
was a sig. other of Lew's and also, as a sideline, mother to Huey Lewis.
An even is happening at noon Saturday in Bolinas which I will not be
able to make. If Beat-L folks know of any others kindly backchannel me.
The new posting format appears to me to be already generating unecessary
mail that would be better backchanneled. Here is my one vote for a
return to the interim format in which backchannel is encouraged ( a good
thing in my view,) and a post to all 200+plus of us is required a little
thought.
Just my two cents.
J. Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 23:33:44 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: Chet and I
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Pamela Beach Plymell wrote:
>
> God, I didn't know you knew him. I used to fantasize to his music in
> eary
> fifties. I had a vision of him beside a 48 Ford conv. with his arms
> around a
> chick in the perfect new suburb, but always saying goodbye so
> beautifully
> frank. That's first tip somethings happening! He sand his sad subtle
> songs
> so mellow it can make your bones cry, the whole flower bleed.
> C. Plymell
Charles at the risk of losing all my Southern Manhood self image, I will
venture to say, that in addition to being able to blow the trumpet like
no one else, he was a beautiful man. I wonder if any of the women on
the list noticed his fallen angel, needing mothering, impish boy nature.
Just had to take care of him. It would be good if some one some where
would put together a real jazz sampler with all some of the best of all
those who played from the heart. Train, Chet, Miles, Dizzy, Byrd,
Charlie Christian, Wes Montgomery, at least that's where I would start.
Maybe it's out there. Tell me if you know.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 22:33:51 -0700
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall <dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: I Guess I Didn't
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That window makes you look really ugly.
I should've told you but I guess I didn't.
That sunset is rising from the greatest depths.
I should've told you but I guess I didn't.
Wake up.
Get undressed.
You fell asleep in my dreams again.
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:04:15 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "P.A.Maher" <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: The Flood of Dr. Sax
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The Kerouac Quarterly Page has been updated today (8-16-97)!!!
For details about the Images of Kerouac '97 Exhibition go to:
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/page1.html
To see the painting "The Flood of Dr. Sax" go to:
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/page2.html
Let me know what you think!!!! Thanks, Paul of TKQ. . .
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:00:26 -0400
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: [Fwd: Burroughs]
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Well, I have been scanning the Dylan list for some more good Burroughs
posts. And I couldn't find anymore, so the action must have died down.
But since the beats play cosmic baseball on the net, and since the
action has dwindled, I did find this fine reference to Cal Ripken and
Eddie Murray. Seems timely since Anaheim just cut Eddie.
But on the beat list question. I know, or at least believe Jack was
very much into baseball. How about Neal, or any others. It would not
seem to be Allen's or William's kind of thing. I know that James and
and few others had some good comments on Neal playing pool. Is there
any sort of information on baseball and its connection with those who
are considered beats. I personally find baseball to be a very
interesting game when seen live. On tv, it is much too long.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
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Path:
Supernews69!SupernewsFH!newsfeed.direct.ca!logbridge.uoregon.edu!zdc!szdc!newsp
.zippo.com!zdrn
From: judy
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Re: Burroughs
Date: 15 Aug 1997 22:03:57 -0700
Organization: canova@hay.seed
Message-ID: <5t3cbt$s2r@drn.zippo.com>
References: <1.5.4.16.19970808102856.1b1f1c80@mail.mpx.com.au>
<19970814.195351.4391.0.steve_lescure@juno.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ww-ty03.proxy.aol.com
Xref: Supernews69 rec.music.dylan:90208
In article , Steve says...
>
>I would say that songwriters are certainly better judges than the typical
>music listener (Steve Earle notwithstanding), and probably better than
>the average critic. Look at baseball. When the fans picked the
>players (maybe they still do, I don't follow it much anymore) the
>choices were often ludicrious. When the
>writers/mangers picked it came out much better, less choices like
>Cal Ripken batting .250 starting at shortstop.
>
Look, it's one thing for folks in this newsgroup to take on Baez,
Burroughs, God, Ginsberg, or Calvin. But when you go after Cal Ripken,
you've crossed the line. What's next? An attack on Eddie Murray?
--------------7728E3029820A3D2CE567CEF--
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 14:58:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Cut up method
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>From the Beat Book, edited by Anne Waldman 1996, page 182.
The Cut-up Method of Brion Gysin
At a surrealist rally in the 1920s Tristan Tzara the man from nowhere
proposed to creat a poem on the spot by pulling words out of a hat. A
riot ensued wrecked the theater. Andre Breton expelled Tristan Tzara
from the movement and grounded the cut-ups on the Freudian couch.
In the summer of 1959 Brion Gysin painter and writer cut newspaper
articles into sections at random. "Minutes to Go" resulted from this
initial cut-up experiment. "Minutes to Go" contains unedited unchanged
cut-ups emerging as quite coherent and meaningful prose.
...
Tristam Tzara said: "Poetry is for everyone."
...
Cutups are for everyone. Anybody can make cut-ups.
This is from William S. Burroughs, The Cut-up Method of Brion Gysin
which first appeared in the "The Third Mind (c) 1978.
I was just trying to dig into some better understanding of Burroughs and
stumbled across this.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 04:40:54 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: On the Road: first 2 chapters
Comments: cc: SSASN@AOL.COM
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Is anyone ready to discuss books yet? In rereading On the Road, I'm
noticing how much more romantic Kerouac is here about life, still in the
early stages of captivation with Neal for his love of life.
pg. 8, "...and I shambled after as I've been doing all my life after
people who interest me, because the only people for me are the mad ones,
the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of
everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace
thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabolous yellow roman candles exploding
like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue
centerlight pop and everybody goes 'Awww!'"
Interesting perception of Neal meeting Allen: pg. 7
"Two keen minds that they are, they took to each other at the drop of a
hat. Two piercing eyes glanced into two piercing eyes--the holy con-man
with the shining mind, and the sorrowful poetic con-man with the dark
mind that is Carlo Marx."
Also interesting to note, is even that in starting out on his first
hitchhike across the country, where his plan is to take Route 6 straight
across the country to Ely, Nevada., he has to give up because there are
no cars to pick him up, and a passerby suggests he give up the plan
and head to Pittsburg to Chicago; he says, "It was my dream that screwed
up, the stupid hearthside idea that it would be wonderful to follow one
great red line across America instead of trying various roads and
routes."
So, in his eyes, is the American dream already starting to topple? Is
the spiritual journey also begun? The fact that life is lived and
knowledge is gained by trying various roads and routes, instead of one
answer, analogous to one gigantic thoroughfare cutting through the middle
of America, but no one is on it.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 05:01:33 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Naked Lunch: Chapter 1, up to Benway
Comments: cc: SSASN@AOL.COM
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The most amazing thing about the beginning of Naked Lunch is the flow of
language. Very much different than Kerouac's type of flow but very
compelling from the perspective of keeping the reader interested. It
is a keen flow of dialogue that keeps things moving. As for subject
matter, mostly I've learned that the heirarchy of junk on all levels is
all-consuming and everyone is the chain is addicted to his own level, be
that user, seller, buyer, agent, etc.; the system goes in circles,
everyone is affected, infected. Not a pretty world, lots of drooling,
vomiting, spitting, nightmares about rotting ectoplasm. Also no real
sense of who I is, or where he is, except caught in a vicious cycle.
Does anyone else have a perspective about the beginning of the book?
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 23:03:59 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: The Darkness of Buddishm.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
*-
"A man who uses Buddhism or any other instrument to
remove love from his being in order to avoid,
has committed, in my mind, a sacrilege comparable
to castration."-- William S. Burroughs' letter to Jack Kerouac.
>From "Letters of William S. Burroughs 1945-1959."
*-
"When the Vietnamese communists
took Saigon in 1975, they put their "class
enemies" into re-education camps. In
neighboring Cambodia, Pol Pot built exter-
mination camps. Techears, doctors, people
who could speak a foreing language, even
people who wore glasses, were purged as
he sought to reduce all of Cambodia to the
level of the peasant class. The Vietnamese
could be cruel captors, but their Confucian
heritage left them open to educational re-
form. In Cambodia, by contrast, Buddhism
encouraged a belief in the ineluctability
of karma and the idea that evil suffered
is evil deserved. ''The idea of karma
goes very deep in this society, and I
think that was part of the mentality of
the Khmer Rouge when they were massacring
people,'' said Francois Ponvhaud, a priest
who first went in Cambodia in 1965. '' They
believed their victims had made errors,
political errors, and that killing them
would allow them to be reborn as better
people in their next lives''. Pol Pot has
admitted to some mistakes in the period
from 1975 to 1979, but in his eyes they
were mistakes of policy. About the million
dead, he has never expressed any remorse."
From "Terry McCarthy-- TIME,AUGUST 11,1997."
*-
"I repeat, BUDDHISM IS NOT FOR THE WEST.
We must evolve our own solutions..."
-- William S. Burroughs' letter to Jack Kerouac.
>From "Letters of William S. Burroughs 1945-1959."
*-
DIED. WILLIAM BURROUGHS, 83,
countercultural hero, whose
delicioussly delirious novel,
''Naked Lunch'', was cleared
of obscenity charges by the
U.S. Supreme Court; in Lawrence,
Kansas. A literary junkie,
Burroughs was hooked on heroin
and words, which he furiously
pieced together to exorcise the
memory of having drunkenly shot
his wife Joan instead of the
glass perched on her head. Of
that stunt gone fatally wrong,
Burroughs once said: '' I have
had no choice but to write my
way out.''
From "TIME,AUGUST 18,1997.
*-
saluti fraterni,
Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 17:14:20 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Eric Blanco <Chimera@WEBTV.NET>
Subject: Smoke Signals
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Sam plays the blues
His left hand action
Could break your heart
[Dark Cipher
Show Judas mercy
He was dealt a raw hand
Shattered faith and broken connection
He took to the highway
To be born again
You need distance]
Rick pours a drink
And waits for her return
[Like a killer
Firing blanks at a photograph
He seethes
Like an infant
Being smothered by a pillow
Thinks he sees the light]
He lights a cigarette
And lets time go by
[We surrounded the fire
Dancing and ripping the flesh
Off our screaming sacrifice
Our hands covered with blood
And offal]
Ilsa's eyes still watch him at night
[Menstrual mind shaved bare
Severed ring finger
On a drift of snow
Coyly removing her shades
Tongues of flame lick the air
>From hollow eye sockets]
"I miss you, kid"
[In the apartment next door
A body is being slammed against
The wall again and again
All I do is sweat my sheets into slush
And follow the rhythm in terror]
She's always another drink away
[The knife thrower
Over there, wiping his steel
Is Anxious for his turn on stage
He makes sure these parties
Don't get over crowded]
He's always a drink behind
[Her room is gaurded by statues
Of saints, candles and prayer cards
Holy water by the door
Someone outside crying at
A lovers' breakthrough
Swallowed by black night
Playing burial drums in the street
Acceptance at her outstretched hand
I lay down
Whose lips enclosed
Whose touch could save]
Chimera
'91 (cut-ups)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 23:15:02 +0200
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Beat Writers.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
http://sfpl.lib.ca.us/nbe/beatwriters.html
List of Beat Writers in The Collection
The two sources used to determine if a writer/poet is to be included
in the Beat Writers Collection are: 1) A two volume set entitled "The Beats:
Literary Bohemians in Postwar America" (edited by Ann Charters. Gale. 1983).
More than a biography of 66 Beats or Beat Era writers, each entry includes an
in-depth critique of the works of an author and includes at least one
photograph and a bibliography. The six page forward written by Charters
serves as a quick socio-historical analysis of BEAT.
Poets/writers listed in this two volume set are:
Amari Baraka (Leroi Jones)
Paul Blackburn
Bonnie Bremser
Ray Bremser
Chandler Brossard
William S. Burroughs
William S. Burroughs Jr.
Paul Carroll
Carolyn Cassady
Neal Cassady
Andy Clausen
Gregory Corso
Robert Creely
Diane DiPrima
Kirby Doyle
Robert Duncan
Bob Dylan
William Everson (Brother Antonus)
Lawrence Ferlinghetti
Allen Ginsberg
Brion Gysin
John Cellon Holmes
Herbert Huncke
Ted Joans
Lenore Kandel
Bob Kaufman
Jan Kerouac
Jack kerouac
Ken Kesey
Seymour Krim
Tuli Kupferberg
Joanne Kyger
Philip Lamantia
Jay Landesman
Fran Landesman
Timothy Leary
Lawrence Lipton
Norman Mailer
Edward Marshall
Joanna McClure
Michael McClure
Taylor Mead
David Meltzer
Jack Micheline
John Montgomery
Harold Norse
Frank O'Hara
Charles Olson
Peter Orlovsky
Kenneth Patchen
Stuart Z. Perkoff
Charles Plymell
Dan Propper
Kenneth Rexroth
Michael Rumaker
Ed Sanders
Gary Snyder
Carl Solomon
Jack Spicer
Charles Upton
Janine Pommy Vega
Anne Waldman
Alan Watts
Lew Welch
Philip Whalen
John Weiners
William Carlos Williams
2) The second book is entitled
"Women of the Beat Generation" (edited by Brenda Knight.)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 17:47:00 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Eric Blanco <Chimera@WEBTV.NET>
Subject: Re: Naked Lunch: Chapter 1, up to Benway
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I found out quickly that the best
way to approach NL (for me) is as a
long poem, rather than a novel.
Being spoiled by mainstream
authors (hey, I was young!), I wasn't
expecting the sharp turns in the middle
of a sentence (in the middle of a thought)
or the playing with the flow of the plot.
Once you sink into the rhythm and
_expect_ high word play and serious
surreal imagery, the book comes more
easily. Anyway-just me talkin'.
As for the subject matter, even
with my limited (by comparison) drug
experience, one of the things that I was
affected by was WSB's dead on (and
heartbreaking) descriptions of the users'
denial of self (except when it comes to
scoring). The loss of shame, vanity, etc.
It seemed to me that while putting down
these scenes, all his fantastic wordplay
was put aside just for a few sentences
and he was just "putting the feeling
across, straight". All the more jarring
when he'd get up and go again.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 19:53:46 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gary Mex Glazner <PoetMex@AOL.COM>
Subject: Lew Welch
Comments: To: dcarter@together.net
Bolinas 7.16.97 4pm Western Standard Time
Lew Welch Birthday party-Book party
Hey Beat List
this is my first post--
Just back from great reading, singing, dancing,
homage to Lew... Happy Birthday,
Ring of bone-
Robert Hunter the long time Greatful Dead lyricist
sang to the crowd
Magda singed copies of her new book
"Hey Lew"
People read from Lew's poems
(I got to read Taxi Suite)
All in the sweet down town
of Bolinas
ever wonder what
happened to all the hippies?
They are alive and well
in Bolinas
more poets per capita than
any where on the plant.
Also in attendance
Joann Kyger
You can get the new book
by sending $12.00 to Magda Cregg
Box 964 Bolinas CA 94924
(for those not in the know
she was married to Lew
and the mother of
Huey Lewis)
Sweet stories in the book
of Lew teaching Huey
about poetry!!
Love,
Gary Mex Glazner
Headless Buddha
http://www.well.com/user/poetmex
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 18:51:57 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: Cut up method
In-Reply-To: <33F5F86D.548BBCEF@scsn.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 11:58 AM -0700 8/16/97, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
> Tristam Tzara said: "Poetry is for everyone."
>
> ...
>
> Cutups are for everyone. Anybody can make cut-ups.
>
> This is from William S. Burroughs, The Cut-up Method of Brion Gysin
> which first appeared in the "The Third Mind (c) 1978.
>
> I was just trying to dig into some better understanding of Burroughs and
> stumbled across this.
driving down from Lala today. thinking about The Big Lie and how cutups,
collage, and that compacted shape shifting style familiar to david salle,
burroughs, and a whole new generation of graphic designers. Got to
thinking about how otto dix and george grosz with the depictions of post
wwI germany, their crowded political scenes are very reminsecent of my WSB
view.
to crack the big lie. to be vigilent on the truth and not be snide, not
play stupid, and to crack the commercian veneer that often surrounds such
enterprises.
yes, "people have the power" as patti smith often says. "people have the
power to dream, to rule, to wrestle the earth from fools"
and how refreshing it is to read some straight commentary, not some alien
this and hanging boy critique of capitalism art statement. props to the
New Yorker for getting ahold of those journal entries. Wonder how they
pulled that one off??
>
> Peace,
> --
> Bentz
> bocelts@scsn.net
>
> http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Douglas
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ | 0 |
step aside, and let the man go thru | { - |
----> let the man go thru | /\ |
super bon-bon (soul coughing) =========
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 20:50:34 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Naked Lunch: Chapter 1, up to Benway
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Diane Carter wrote:
>
> The most amazing thing about the beginning of Naked Lunch is the flow of
> language. Very much different than Kerouac's type of flow but very
> compelling from the perspective of keeping the reader interested. It
> is a keen flow of dialogue that keeps things moving. As for subject
> matter, mostly I've learned that the heirarchy of junk on all levels is
> all-consuming and everyone is the chain is addicted to his own level, be
> that user, seller, buyer, agent, etc.; the system goes in circles,
> everyone is affected, infected. Not a pretty world, lots of drooling,
> vomiting, spitting, nightmares about rotting ectoplasm. Also no real
> sense of who I is, or where he is, except caught in a vicious cycle.
> Does anyone else have a perspective about the beginning of the book?
> DC
It has been some time since i've been through this book. As i may have
mentioned i gave my william burroughs collection to a dear friend for
hannukah last winter. i felt it was time to pass it along at the time.
sometimes i have regrets - especially when specifics are being
discussed. The local library which does have a copy of Naked Lunch will
not be open until sometime later next week. Hopefully it will be
available for checkout.
In the meantime another library in town "MAGICALLY" had a copy of the
Letters 45-59 of WSB. I checked it out yesterday and have already made
it to December 1952. It is good reading and quite a warmup for moving
into Naked Lunch - as i believe Arthur had suggested previously.
One thing about what you've recognized in the opening portions of the
book is that i believe that there are many layers beyond mere junk at
work here. The nature of the vicious cycle is particularly important.
It seems to be (as i recall) that the beginning section of this book --
with minor modifications -- could be a recurring preface to most of the
works to follow with differing emphasis concerning the specifics.
Without a copy of Naked Lunch before me it is difficult to explain this
very well as i am unable to provide any textual references. What i am
suggesting also in no way is a claim that your current reading is a
misunderstanding or misconception. Rather what i'm trying to find the
words to breakthrough with here is that the beginning section can be
read as developing a far more general theory concerning addiction and
control and even Control with a capital "C". Such a reading views the
poetry of junk as a poetic example of the larger notion.
The particular kind of vicious cycle described here is a powerful
general theory which can be translated across addictions and even as far
as considering addictions to the virus of words and the control of
space/time and the addiction to finding immortality. Throughout the
writings of WSB, it always seems to me, that coming back to these
beginnings in Naked Lunch can provide a powerful lens into the future
project.
Two other comments ... it seems that it is important to view Naked
Lunch as more than a junk novel from the outset. The junk experience is
already described in some detail in Junkie/Junky (or as in the letters
simply Junk). Viewing as more than a junk novel helps discourage the
tendency to pigeonhole the writings of WSB as a junk novelist.
The second thing is that the technique employed in developing Naked
Lunch of cut-up (cut and paste, splice, word montage - whatever) both
presents a clear picture and something of a non-linear image that breaks
through pre-recordings. In reading WSB, one can merely accept the
pre-recording of the book as published or appreciate this version and
also glance around the montage of words for portraits of further
meanings yet to be exposed.
Just a few thoughts. I look forward to being able to check out the
necessary books to keep up with you on this very very soon.
david rhaesa
salina, Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 22:15:29 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "P.A.Maher" <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Thanks to My Friends of the Beat-L
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Thanks to all those who have visited my web page for The Kerouac Quarterly.
I must solicit one thing from those who can help me. I am looking for any
current or upcoming reviews for Some of the Dharma. This is an important
publication and should be widely discussed in a controversial way. I think
you all will be surprised by its contents as I was. For now. . .I have the
negative review from Kirkus added to the page ( a page I will keep separate
for Some of the Dharma). Thanks again. . .please e-mail me your reviews
should you get them. Regards and thanks from The Kerouac Quarterly. .
.Sincerely Paul. . .
The Kerouac Quarterly, a journal for the legacy and spirit of Jack Kerouac. . .
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 19:22:10 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall <dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: Re: Naked Lunch
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Like David, I haven't reread the novel in quite awhile. I have to agree
with his idea about how pervasive the metaphor of "junk" is throughout the
novel. A scene which has stuck in my mind since I read it, and I believe
it's in the first chapter, is when a guy approaches the narrator in the
subway (?) and the narrator immediately recognizes the guy as someone who
isn't "in the know" and who, because of this, is ready for a fleecing.
And I keep thinking about how "paranoia" is so often justified and I
wonder how truly deep the "junk" goes. Maybe I'll reread it after all.
Your's,
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 00:20:14 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "P.A.Maher" <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Some of the Dharma Review
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I have posted on another page at my web site a review for Some of the Dharma.
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/page3.html
Enjoy and respond! Regards to all, Paul of TKQ. . .
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 21:34:09 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: Naked Lunch: Chapter 1, up to Benway
In-Reply-To: <33F658EA.50E2@midusa.net>
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At 6:50 PM -0700 8/16/97, RACE --- wrote:
> The particular kind of vicious cycle described here is a powerful
> general theory which can be translated across addictions and even as far
> as considering addictions to the virus of words and the control of
> space/time and the addiction to finding immortality. Throughout the
> writings of WSB, it always seems to me, that coming back to these
> beginnings in Naked Lunch can provide a powerful lens into the future
> project.
Ok, cool. Was watching tv tonight, "Valmont." This psycho thriller of
sorts, involving love, death, manipulation, and in the end, "the viscious
circle". And we see it all planned out. down to the details. Human
beings controling the outcome of events. Mixed this all up with my working
WSB ideas of the "big lie."
Went to the bookstore today and came up with "the western lands." They
didn't have the WSB letters book, nor the Umberto Eco I was looking for.
Got a S. Dali compendium for $6 (quite a steal!).
also realized the you can translate the control, the viscious cycle you
are talking about into visual terms as well. That's where the green tit
comes in handy, I guess. The Gaze!
then from what your talking about, don't forget what an old carny WSB is.
I liked how Eric Blanco talked about WSB and his few true sentences. And
seeing him start, jarringly, up again. The lure to keep the carny suspect
hooked.
and from "Valmont" realizing that your own actions are possibly not enough
to prevent the big lie from happening again. that lies are necessary, that
love is not always fulfilled, and the harm might willingly be caused to
others. Needing people to respect and violate these personal laws.
then death, how it works. death is indeed the seed. burrowing down deep
like the fucking fleas in my apartment. bring the heat and my blood is
ripe for the picking.
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/images/Big_lie.html
> david rhaesa
> salina, Kansas
Douglas
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ | 0 |
step aside, and let the man go thru | { - |
----> let the man go thru | /\ |
super bon-bon (soul coughing) =========
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 22:49:11 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: green tit (1997)
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http://www.electriciti.com/babu/images/Green_tit.html
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ | 0 |
step aside, and let the man go thru | { - |
----> let the man go thru | /\ |
super bon-bon (soul coughing) =========
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 10:17:28 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Lawrence Ferlinghetti, the Prevert of America...
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%1997081523204008@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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Antoine et al. friends,
the Ferlinghetti's poem "Walking through the University of Bologna"
is printed in the book
"Ferlinghetti, SCENE ITALIANE", ed. Minum fax, (c) 1995, Roma
in the cover a Ferlinghetti's painting titled "Morning Vision",
in previous post i noticed thet Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>
have alot of books in stock i dunno if he has a copy of "Italian Scenes"
by LF,
saluti a tutti, e buona domenica,
Rinaldo.
At 23.20 15/08/97 -0400, Antoine wrote:
>Thanks for adding the William for me Rinaldo and for choosing such a perfect
>Ferlinghetti poem as a response! Which collection is it from?
>
> Antoine
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 04:28:41 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Lowell Kerouac organizers
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At 11:41 PM 8/14/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I have ended this kind of crap! It went out with greasy funded french fries.
>Who wants to see Kerouac's Lowell in that kind of crowd, anyway?
>C. Plymell
>
>
The Hemingway ancestors have ceased control of the Papa
image in Key West and are trying to the get the annual
event to pay them (the Hem foundation)tribute for using
the Hem image, etc. If Kerouac's relatives want to make
a case which makes all public beat knowledge accessible to
them. It could be the Dow is starting to shift downers.
Mike Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 05:02:56 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Naked Lunch: Chapter 1, up to Benway
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runner wrote:
> Mixed this all up with my working
> WSB ideas of the "big lie."
>
> http://www.electriciti.com/babu/images/Big_lie.html
>
> Douglas
>
> http://www.electriciti.com/babu/
I'm not certain that "lie" is it. Unless the Lie is in only one angle
on truth. It doesn't seem to me a particularly moralish notion as Lie
sometimes suggests - what constitutes the Big Lie is factually accurate
from a particular point of view, from a particular angle. What is
exposed is the multiplicity of angles.
i like your montage/collage. it reminded me of an old friends stuff
that he used to send through the mail - addressing the backside of
something like that to friends.
david rhaesa
salina, Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 05:06:11 -0500
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Naked Lunch
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James William Marshall wrote:
>
> Like David, I haven't reread the novel in quite awhile. I have to agree
> with his idea about how pervasive the metaphor of "junk" is throughout the
> novel. A scene which has stuck in my mind since I read it, and I believe
> it's in the first chapter, is when a guy approaches the narrator in the
> subway (?) and the narrator immediately recognizes the guy as someone who
> isn't "in the know" and who, because of this, is ready for a fleecing.
> And I keep thinking about how "paranoia" is so often justified and I
> wonder how truly deep the "junk" goes. Maybe I'll reread it after all.
>
> Your's,
> James M.
i wasn't going to re-read it. i felt like - been there, done that. but
i know that i missed so many angles along the way in first readings and
the idea of reading it with others seems a nice idea. i hope you decide
to read it.
this and the message to douglas are probably examples of what just as
well might be backchanneled ... i fall easily into the trap that the new
format creates and James Stauffer so elegantly slammed.
david rhaesa
salina, Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 07:14:11 EDT
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Resent-From: Fred Bogin <FDBBC@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
Comments: Originally-From: Matthias_Schneider
<magrobi@mail.zedat.fu-berlin.de>
From: Fred Bogin <FDBBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Burroughs/ Ginsberg and David Leavitt
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Hi,
thanks for helping me with the citation search the other day...
=2E..by the way, I am studying the Text The Lost Language of Cranes by David
Leavitt for my thesis and there are at least two references concerning
Ginsberg und Burroughs.
(1.) a rather middle-class gay couple distance themselves from Ginsberg=B4s
social life
(2.) there is a scene in which one of the protagonists (Philip) is in a
porn theatre an he has sex with a guy, although he does not want it until
"the strange man=B4s hand unzips Philip=B4s and BURROWS into him."
I wonder whether the verb "burrows into" (It sounds like "Burroughs,
doesn=B4t it?) is a textual reference to Naked Lunch to what happened to the
boys. I have not read Naked Lunch yet, but as far as I know they are kind
of raped and die at the end of the story. Is there any other term (that is
perhaps more often used) that describes fellatio, instead of to "burrow
into".
I guess David Leavitt is pretty anti-beat.
Do you think the latter clue has any sense, or am I overreading? I would be
grateful for any comments.
Matthias Schneider (Berlin)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 13:49:48 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: la Repubblica quoted Wall Street Journal WSB's obituary
In-Reply-To: <33EFFFC8.5258@buchenroth.com>
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At 23.16 11/08/97 -0700,
"Michael L. Buchenroth" <mike@BUCHENROTH.COM> wrote:
>Last Saturday morning (Friday night) I read an article / bio / slam /
>insulting and frightening propaganda bullshit narrowly filtered opinion
>in the "Wall Street Journal" about Burroughs and the Beats, etc.
>***
[snipped for brevity]
>
Friends,
the newspaper "la Repubblica", printed in Rome (the 2th most
big newspaper in Italy) today sunday 17th august 1997, has quoted the
Wall Street Journal article concerned the William S. Burroughs' obituary.
*********************************************
Dopo i misurati elogi della stampa "liberal",
il "Wall Street Journal" parte all'attacco.
BURROUGHS, L'AMERICA SI DIVIDE
di Eugenio Occorsio
Era inevitabile che l'America giungesse ad un
''redde rationem'' con William Burroughs, il
controverso profeta della beat generation morto
di infarto il 2 agosto nel Kansas appena quattro
mesi dopo l'altro ''poeta maledetto'' Allen
Ginsberg. E' un processo tortuoso e sofferto,
questa rivisitazione della figura dell'autore
di ''Naked Lunch'', che si sta consumando in
questi giorni insieme alle celebrazioni di
Elvis Presley: il New York Times ha pubblicato
un obituary volutamente asettico e didascalico
pur definendolo ''scrittore rinnegato'', il
Washington Post lo ha definito senza mezzi termini
''una genuina icona culturale'', il Los Angeles Times-
citando peraltro i tanti ammiratori da Norman
Mailer a Lou Reed- ha riferito con piu' convinzione
nei giorni successivi le serrate critiche che lo
dipingevano come un ''ciarlatano incomprensibile''.
Ma e' soprattutto il Wall Street Journal, ultimo ma
non minore, a scagliarsi non solo contro questo
''debosciato pornografo'' ma anche contro il resto
della stampa americana, ''che lo ha trattato come fosse
un'importante figura letteraria''.
''Burroughs, come prima di lui Kerouac- scrive
ora il quotidiano- commetteva, fra le tante, una
mistificazione: diceva di ispirarsi allo scrittore
Jonathan Swift, per i suoi toni satirici e disincantati.
Nulla di piu' sbagliato: Swift prende le distanze
dalle aberrazioni e dalla degradazione che dipingeva,
Burroughs invece vi e' immerso dentro. E' un opportunista
che si autodefinisce ironico solo perche' cosi' cerca
di proteggersi contro le azioni legali a suo carico
per oscenita' ''. A differenza di Swift, ''non ha
nessun ideale da contrapporre alle brutture che descrive''.
Certo aggiunge il Journal, Burroughs, come gli altri
Beats, ha lasciato il segno nella cultura americana e
ha contribuito ad infrangere il muro di "reticente
sensibilita'" che circondava la pornografia. E la sua
"religione della droga" ha fatto si' che di questa si
riuscisse a parlare con minore reticenze. Ma il tutto
''non ha rappresentato un successo, bensi' una penosa
degenerazione''.
copyright "la Repubblica" domenica 17 agosto 1997, p.34
*******************************************************
i must note that in the italian media (Tv & Press) WSB isn't caned,
here there's an acceptance of the beat experience,
Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 05:23:25 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall <dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: Re: New Format
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
What's the deal with the new format? Are we supposed to be doing
something differently? I'd backchannel this to Bill but I don't have his
address. My apologies for wasting bandwidth but perhaps there are others
with the same questions.
P.S. I haven't noticed any difference in my mail from this list.
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 11:03:28 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: Burroughs and musical influences
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After someone dies, everything is written in the context of the fact that=
he
is dead. All writings about Burroughs and Ginsberg now have an obituary f=
eel
to them. These days, obituary feels hyped, forced, politically correct. S=
o I
was interested to find these three older music reviews at Rolling Stone's
website (http://www.rollingstone.com), written about three distinct music=
al
contributions, as disparate as night and day, written at various times wh=
ile
William was still alive.
His influence is named, rather than claimed, in these reviews. I thought =
a
bunch of us might enjoy them.=20
The last sentence of the Iggy Pop review is a great philosophical stateme=
nt
that must have been intimately understood both by WSB and Kurt Cobain. Ma=
ybe
it should a tattoo inside the elbow-joint of everyone making art with wor=
ds
and music in the nihilistic Nineties, right where that vein pops up.
Diane De Rooy
........................
Clear
Bomb the Bass
In 1988, Tim Simenon was a teenage DJ making cut-and-paste hip-hop single=
s in
the style of fellow English mix masters Coldcut, S'Express and M/A/R/R/S.=
His
first single, "Beat Dis," was intended to be a simple, faceless dance rec=
ord,
but it wound up catapulting Simenon into Britain's suffocating pop spotli=
ght.
By 1993, the DJ and producer had released two albums in Britain, "Into th=
e
Dragon" and "Unknown Territory," as Bomb the Bass.
Simenon has returned with his third Bomb the Bass album, "Clear," and it
demonstrates just how far he has come since those early days. The novelty=
of
samplers has apparently worn off for Simenon, and what has emerged is a
proficient sweep through dub reggae, hip-hop, jazz, techno and the litera=
ry
collection of William S. Burroughs. With fewer electronic bites and more
original instrumentation, "Clear" is Simenon's most sophisticated work to
date.
On "Empire," an emotive ballad that plays on the similarity of the words
empire and vampire in describing England as a bloodsucking entity, Sinead
O'Connor duets with the delicate-voiced newcomer Benjamin Zephaniah to
beautiful effect. But it's the Los Angeles rapper Justin Warfield who is =
most
responsible for "Clear's" edgy, Beat-like quality. When Warfield waxes
lyrical about Willy Wonka over Simenon's drug-addled bassoon foundation o=
n
"Brain Dead" or flips the lines "Bug powder dust/To mugwump jism/The wild
boys running/Round interzone trippin'," on "Bug Powder Dust," it's appare=
nt
that this music is a far cry from typical hip-hop fare.
The album's smooth-flowing, laid-back jazz quality stands in stark contra=
st
to the original European release of "Clear," which carried a frenetic pac=
e
similar to flipping through television channels. Alternate versions - and
even song omissions (including a contribution from the author Will Self) =
-
make for an entirely different creation for the American audience, althou=
gh
both albums are equally worthwhile.
On "Clear," Bomb the Bass reaches well beyond the boundaries of the trip-=
hop
appellation to present tunes sweet to the ears and lyrics that stick in t=
he
mind.=20
-- TAMARA PALMER (RS 732)
.................................................
The Chronic/Black Sunday
Dr. Dre/Cypress Hill
Death Row/Interscope/Columbia
Wrapped in a Batman cloak of larger-than-life mayhem and straining its pa=
nts
with adolescent horniness, it's beloved by millions, black and white; the=
y
devour its percussive snap, crackle and pop. To adult white people, it's
anathema. But California hardcore rap is simply one of the most imaginati=
ve
sounds in the world today. Its radical wordplay mainstreaming the
scatological cut-up poetics that William Burroughs debuted in the '50s, i=
t
hurdles the aesthetic line in the sand that original rap drew when it beg=
an
to rethink rhythm, compositional method and studio technique so decisivel=
y
that it redefined the very perception of music itself. Along with the 12-=
tone
scale of modern classical fare, Ornette Coleman's free jazz and the trium=
ph
of punk attitude, the rap revolution is 20th-century fact.
At its vanguard are the gangstas. Formerly of the trailblazing N.W.A, Dr.=
Dre
is the form's wizard producer. High-volume hypnotism, "The Chronic," like=
the
marijuana it's named for, alters the senses. Mixing loping beats, smooth =
and
gruff voices from South Central, giggles, snarls and reggae intonations, =
it
updates the aural movies P-Funk (and psychedelia) once made. Its sounds a=
re
as raw and complex and real as life. The assaultive Dre and the more rela=
xed
Snoop Doggy Dogg (the latter formally charged with murder in September) m=
ay
be, to put it mildly, problematic souls, and romanticizing criminal behav=
ior
sucks. This music, however, cannot be refuted =96 or easily forgotten.
With "Black Sunday," Cypress Hill make baroque rap so arcane in its sampl=
es
(Bobbie Gentry, Black Sabbath, Joe Zawinul) and verbal references (sumo
wrestling, Louis Armstrong, "The Wizard of Oz") that the mind reels. This
crew, too, is made up of potheads. And next to their musical inventivenes=
s,
black-Latino hipness and zany comedy, most rappers seem as lame as old hi=
ppie
bands did next to Frank Zappa. Skull-strewn, their album art looks B-movi=
e
Gothic, but what's truly scary is their titanic, subversive intelligence.
--PAUL EVANS (RS 672/673)=20
......................................
Naughty Little Doggie
Iggy Pop
If Iggy Pop had died when most people expected him to -- back in the
mid-'70s, from an overdose of bad drugs and stage violence -- we would
probably be sitting around now wondering what kind of music he would have
made in his middle age. But the heavy chemicals and broken glass didn't k=
ill
him, and he's still cutting records, so here's your answer: In 1996, the =
Pop
is still singing about pussy. About needing it, getting it and how just
thinking about it is good for what ails him. With its hip-swing rhythm an=
d
irresistible idiot-mantra chorus, "Pussy Walk" is top-grade, lowbrow lovi=
n'.
Because in rock & roll, as in everything else, life is too short to waste=
on
double-entendre.
At 48, Iggy Pop isn't punking out. "I'm better than a Pepsi/I'm cooler th=
an
MTV," he brags at the outset of "Naughty Little Doggie" over the shake 'n=
'
quake of "I Wanna Live." "Step up, it's fight time/ Kick, scratch and bit=
e
time." He's as good as his word for the most part, turning on the power-e=
lite
pricks in "Knucklehead" while losing himself in the burnt-heart howl of "=
To
Belong." And Iggy has not lost his lyric gifts for Burroughsian sleight o=
f
metaphor -- "The music sounds like dead ham" ("Knucklehead") -- and sly
menace. "Strangle that rock & roll star," he sings on "Outta My Head" wit=
h
just the right trace of irony. "Make him eat jizz."
But Iggy also carries the great weight of his own history; at this point =
in
his life, nothing short of total meltdown on record would eclipse the Mol=
otov
cock tales on "The Stooges," "Fun House" and "Raw Power." And "Doggie" fi=
nds
him struggling with the uneasy balance between the eternal joys of electr=
ic
fuck-you rock & roll and singing about the hard truth of being an outlaw =
for
life -- that you'll probably die alone. Iggy almost nails it in "Outta My
Head" with the wounded-animal way his voice bends slightly out of tune, b=
ut
the song cries out for more explicit guitar madness, more real blood on t=
he
frets.
"Look Away," though, is a potent admission of screwing up on China white =
and
cheap attitude. Amid references to Johnny Thunders' fatal mixed-up confus=
ion
and Iggy's own near-death experiences, electric and acoustic guitars blen=
d in
eerie, milky strumming as Iggy intones the words "look away" like some Ze=
n
chant and shows just how low you can go to get by. "I got lots of
feelings/But I hold them down," he sings at the end. "That's the way I
cope/With this shitty town."
If Iggy had died ahead of schedule, he would just be another rock & roll
martyr. Instead, the fun house is still open for business and, as he puts=
it
here, "I'm deeper than the shit I'm in/An' I don't really give a damn."
Celebrity is great, but survival is the best revenge.=20
-- DAVID FRICKE (RS 728)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 09:34:24 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: New Format
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<< What's the deal with the new format? Are we supposed to be doing
something differently? I'd backchannel this to Bill but I don't have
his
address.>>
You point directly to the difficulty with the return to the current (and
original) format. Under the interim format we have been operating under
for the last few months the default address that appeared when you hit
your "Reply" button was that of the person posting rather than the
list. If you felt that your reply should go to the list rather than
only that one individual it was easy to erase the "Mail to" address and
plug in Beat-L from your address book. Under this format the default
that appears in your "mail to" space is the list address. It is easy to
change that if you have the individual in your address book. If you
don't, however, you have to copy the individual address from the message
and plug it in. This format makes backchannel harder unless the reply
is to one of your regular on-line buddies.
I am using the terms from Netscape mail, but most of the other mail
programs have very similar functions.
What I liked about the original format was that it made one think at
least once about whether the reply was one that ought to go to all 200
or so of us or was more personal or not global enough for the list.
This reduced list traffic alot and encouraged backchannel both of which
were good things in my view.
I think some folks failed to understand how easy it was to plug in the
List address or were using mail programs that may have made it harder.
This produced lobbying for a change back to the original format. There
are some that liked the personal tone and the sort of cyber soap opera
that the original format seems to me to create. I can like that too,
but it takes a lot more time, and we keep losing good people from the
list because they know they have work they ought to be doing and the
list makes a marvelous excuse for not doing it. The higher and more
frivilous the post volume the greater the incentive to leave and we all
lose access to some wonderful expertise. People keep leaving to finish
books. Those are the sort of people we most need on Beat-L.
J. Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 09:44:57 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: Naked Lunch: Chapter 1, up to Benway
In-Reply-To: <33F6CC50.10CB@midusa.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 3:02 AM -0700 8/17/97, RACE --- wrote:
> runner wrote:
> > Mixed this all up with my working
> > WSB ideas of the "big lie."
> >
> > http://www.electriciti.com/babu/images/Big_lie.html
> >
> > Douglas
> >
> > http://www.electriciti.com/babu/
>
> I'm not certain that "lie" is it. Unless the Lie is in only one angle
> on truth. It doesn't seem to me a particularly moralish notion as Lie
> sometimes suggests - what constitutes the Big Lie is factually accurate
> from a particular point of view, from a particular angle. What is
> exposed is the multiplicity of angles.
yeah, got to thinking about that "lie" part also. Was it similar to the
"original sin"? Was it the "fall from heaven" that is basically in every
religion across the globe? As if by being paranoid (as S.Dali does in his
paranoid-critical method of painting), one is, as you say, exposed to
multiple angels. angles.
that you can't really trust anyone, and this is the foundation for
something larger. Oh, I don't know. Have kinda lost that train of
thought now. But, aha! I now have a good set of questions to begin
"western lands" with (and perhaps some q's on Bloom, too....)
>
> i like your montage/collage. it reminded me of an old friends stuff
> that he used to send through the mail - addressing the backside of
> something like that to friends.
Thanx! yes, part of the diatribe that followed in my head rang with
Buckowski's great line "too all my friends" (as superbly announced by M.
Rourke in "Bar Fly"). And from there, got to thinking about the big three
beats and how they are now dead. all dead. But not all dead. Wasn't it
Rinaldo who posted the "who'se who" of beatness? All these people.
Including Buckowski (sp?), I suppose. I guess I'm saying that we have a
lot to talk about. Or possible to talk about. A lot of friends left on
the table...
I'd like to know who the beat artists were. Robert Williams and S. Clay
Wilson come to mind. Then there's the guy who did Hunter S. Thomspon's
novels. The photographer Robert Frank has worked with Patti Smith a few
times. Don't know if it's fair to include Robert Mapplethorpe or Annie
Leibovitz for their portraiture. Who else? Brion G. of course.
ah, time to find some coffee. and perhaps a used bookstore or two. Need
to find a Yves Tanguey book!
>
> david rhaesa
> salina, Kansas
Douglas
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ | 0 |
step aside, and let the man go thru | { - |
----> let the man go thru | /\ |
super bon-bon (soul coughing) =========
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 10:20:28 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: Naked Lunch
In-Reply-To: <33F6CD13.40EA@midusa.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 3:06 AM -0700 8/17/97, RACE --- wrote:
> the idea of reading it with others seems a nice idea. i hope you decide
> to read it.
>
> this and the message to douglas are probably examples of what just as
> well might be backchanneled ... i fall easily into the trap that the new
> format creates and James Stauffer so elegantly slammed.
oh god, what is the list thinking of me now?
another round of arrows or a bbq in my honor?
oh, it's a book signing, oh hell
I had the same thoughts on my cutup thread with Bentz. How would we put
this poem to music? Who cares?! I don't know. Am glad that it ended when
it did, before someone pulled out the machete and started hacking their
computer to death. Surprised James didn't write me personally and tell me
to shut the fuck up.
Basically, I'd agree that the previous format was good for backchannelling.
I actually liked it better that way myself. so Bill Gargan, considering
your email always bounces, I hope you're reading this: add my vote to the
idea of returning to the previous format. and who knows, they might start
regulating sperm any day now, too...
it's the miracle of the lie. yep, that's what Exene and Lydia Lunch, I
believe, talked about when they cruised words and attitudes thru various
towns a few years back. Trashing Courney Love, the Unabomber, and the
media that permeates this planet. How fashion and their zero dollar
attitude can revolutionize life. That if you believe the big lies handed
down to you, that god is good, that big government is out to protect you,
that your doctor knows what's best for you, that that etc. just manhandled
here and there without any factual support. If you believe, then yes, you
are saved.
>
> david rhaesa
> salina, Kansas
Douglas
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ | 0 |
step aside, and let the man go thru | { - |
----> let the man go thru | /\ |
super bon-bon (soul coughing) =========
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 13:18:36 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: new format
I want to thank James for summing up the pros and cons of both the past
and current "reply" formats. The current format will make it easier for
those who want to send their message to the whole list. However, this
means that you have to think about whether you want your message to go
to the whole list or just to the person sending the message. If people
begin to post messages to the list that are intended only for the sender
or begin to engage in private conversations on the list, then James is
right: the traffic on the list will become overwhelmingand people who
find their mailboxes full of irrelevant messages will sign-off the list.
I guess if we find that this happens, we'll have to change the
"reply"default back. Also, please remember when replying to long
messages to "snip" or summarize the message you're replying to rather
than repeat the whole message as some people have been doing. This will
save us all some time. Taking care to correctly identify the "subject"
of your message will also help, allowing those who are uninterested in
that subject to delete your post without having to read it. I'm very
happy to see some exciting threads developing and that we're back to
discussing literature again.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 14:04:11 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: new format
In a message dated 97-08-17 13:30:06 EDT, you write:
<< Also, please remember when replying to long
messages to "snip" or summarize the message you're replying to >>
Yeah... puhleeze...
Since the posts come out of order frequently, it seems like it would be a
good idea to make sure the original sender's name is in that line at the top,
the one that says, "In a message dated x/y/z, Suzie Creemcheeze writes:"
instead of that stock retort, which says only "...you write:".
That way people can find the original post, in case it did arrive after the
reply.
But if the only thing that results from the formatting discussion is a
cessation of personal posts to the list, that will certainly be enough.
ddr
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 14:15:50 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: format
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I can elect to reply to the poster or to all. This was true under the
old format too. I then can delete one if I care to do so. The "old"
format is easier to back channel. The new one is more difficult to back
channel but easier to reply to the list. Under the old one, people
could get messages twice when someone wanted to reply to the list and
hit reply to sender and and all receipents. So, it is possible to get
dual messages when one forgets to erase the individual. To me, I don't
care. It just seems you make a choice for it to be easier to back
channel or easier to reply on the list. Either way, duplicates or
undesirable email will be in the mail box.
Bill, I vote for either way and do not care. I presume that you
switched back because of requests. Now the other side requests to go
back. Suits me either way.
And it does seem that your email bounces. Why is that?
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 03:17:48 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: new format
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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I, for one, am thrilled with the change back to original format. Thanks
Bill! I don't think it's terribly hard to remember that your post is
being read by 200+ people and should be written as such.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 04:01:06 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Naked Lunch: Chapter 1, up to Benway
Comments: cc: SSASN@AOL.COM
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> RACE wrote:
> What i am
> suggesting also in no way is a claim that your current reading is a
> misunderstanding or misconception. Rather what i'm trying to find the
> words to breakthrough with here is that the beginning section can be
> read as developing a far more general theory concerning addiction and
> control and even Control with a capital "C". Such a reading views the
> poetry of junk as a poetic example of the larger notion.
> The particular kind of vicious cycle described here is a
> powerful
> general theory which can be translated across addictions and even as
> far
> as considering addictions to the virus of words and the control of
> space/time and the addiction to finding immortality. Throughout the
> writings of WSB, it always seems to me, that coming back to these
> beginnings in Naked Lunch can provide a powerful lens into the future
> project.
It is easy to view the beginning of Naked Lunch as about junk literally,
and on another level, as a breaking down of society as a whole into
groups that feed and play off one another in terms of who has control and
who is caught in the mirky depths of no control, those people scattered
about, needing the kind of hand-me-downs, caught in the you-get-
only-what-we-want-you-to-have spiral. Space/time distortions are evident
in the movement of the narrator. There is an analysis of need that
transcends time and place, so to speak. I'm having trouble here, early
on though, in having any grasp your "virus of words" concept.
> The second thing is that the technique employed in developing Naked
> Lunch of cut-up (cut and paste, splice, word montage - whatever) both
> presents a clear picture and something of a non-linear image that
> breaks
> through pre-recordings. In reading WSB, one can merely accept the
> pre-recording of the book as published or appreciate this version and
> also glance around the montage of words for portraits of further
> meanings yet to be exposed.
I am trying to be open to all possible meanings as I read this. Is
Burroughs' pre-recorded universe the comings and goings of daily life,
touched as it is by the element of fate? The individuals in the junk
(broadly used) world he is writing about seem to have little power to
ease the futility of their situation. Does the narrator have power in
his observations and the words he uses, or is he merely a scribe forced
to write about that which he cannot change?
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 04:18:22 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Naked Lunch: Chapter 1, up to Benway
Comments: cc: SSASN@AOL.COM
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> RACE wrote:
> I'm not certain that "lie" is it. Unless the Lie is in only one angle
> on truth. It doesn't seem to me a particularly moralish notion as Lie
> sometimes suggests - what constitutes the Big Lie is factually accurate
> from a particular point of view, from a particular angle. What is
> exposed is the multiplicity of angles.
Maybe I'm missing something but where did this idea of the Big Lie come
from? It seems to me that Burrough's notion of the universe is equal
part big lie and big truth. The notion of a creator playing with the
creation comes to mind. There's a natural order of things and an
inversion of the natural order of things.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 15:24:29 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Skau <mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: missile anus
Content-Type: text
Greetings!
1) I like the new format (that is, the old format to which we have
returned);
2) regarding the romantic possibility that Burroughs died because his
true love Ginsberg died: as Jake says in the conclusion of Hemingway's
_The Sun Also Rises_, "Isn't it pretty to think so."
Jack Kerouac: "Unrequited love's a bore."
3) regarding C. Plymell's "remorsing" over the number of dead animals
on the road, you might find amusing the following poem of mine published
in the _Kentucky Poetry Review_ (Fall/Winter 1989/1990):
SIGNS
GAME CROSSING the sign read--
I imagined them hunkering across
I-80: Monopoly, Clue, Backgammon, Chess.
The chicken that crossed the road
to tell a joke. Debris is grimmer:
prairie dogs crushed on the pavement (blackbirds
dart down, daring the traffic for a carcass
morsel), and wolves, raccoons, and skunks
punctuate the margin of the highway.
Were they thrown there by the impact,
or did they drag their battered bodies
there to die, escaping further
shame as tire-desecrated corpses,
cantilevered jaws agape in deadly empty screams?
Cordially,
Mike Skau
8/17/97
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 16:28:02 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: bless you, bill!
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%1997081713294955@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Also, please remember when replying to long
messages to "snip" or summarize the message you're replying to rather
than repeat the whole message as some people have been doing. This will
save us all some time. Taking care to correctly identify the "subject"
of your message will also help, allowing those who are uninterested in
that subject to delete your post without having to read it. I'm very
happy to see some exciting threads developing and that we're back to
discussing literature again.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 04:38:42 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Naked Lunch passage
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I don't know if all editions of Naked Lunch have the same page numbers,
but this passage is on pages 19-20. It seemed important, beyond
elements of pot paranoia, and effective, but I can't explain why. Is
Jane is real-life wife? Does anyone have any ideas about interpretation?
"...Jane meets a pimp trombone player and dissappears in a cloud of tea
smoke. The pimp is one of these vibration and dietary artists--which
means he degrades the female sex by forcing his chicks to swallow all his
shit. He was continually enlarging his theories...he would quiz a chick
and threaten to walk out if she hadn't memorized every nuance of his
latest assault on logic and the human image...He was a ritual tea smoker
and very puritanical about junk the way some teaheads are. He claimed
tea put him in touch with supra blue gravitational fields. He had ideas
on every subject: what kind of underwear was healthy, when to drink
water, and how to wipe your ass. He had a shiny red face and great
spreading smooth nose, little red eyes that lit up when he looked at a
chick and went out when he looked at anything else. His shoulders were
broad and suggested deformity. He acted as if other men did not exist,
conveying his restaurant and store orders to male personnel through a
female intermidiary. And no Man ever invaded his blighted, secret place.
So he is putting down junk and coming on with tea. I take three drags,
Jane looked at him and her flesh crystallized. I leaped up screaming 'I
got the fear!' and ran out of the house. Drank a beer in a little
restaurant--mosaic bar and soccer scores and bullfight posters--and
waited for the bus to town.
A year later in Tangier I heard she was dead."
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 16:37:16 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Eric Blanco <Chimera@WEBTV.NET>
Subject: Re: Naked Lunch: Chapter 1, up to Benway
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV)
I like "There's a natural order of
things and an inversion of the natural order of things." I feel that
best sums
up the world NL takes place in: if not
the inversion of the natural order of
things, then certainly the world (or his
view of the it) turned inside out (?). The
negative of what we perceive as reality.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 17:07:24 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Naked Lunch
In a message dated 97-08-17 16:58:34 EDT, you write:
<< Who cares?! I don't know. Am glad that it ended when
it did, before someone pulled out the machete and started hacking their
computer to death. Surprised James didn't write me personally and tell me
to shut the fuck up. >>
Is this a disease of newsgroups? This pissy, petulant sarcasm launched
against even the slightest of rubs?
This is the kind of crap that has made me sign off three times so far.
Douglas, shut the fuck up, okay?
diane
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 05:31:22 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Naked Lunch: Benway
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
This actually is beginning to read more like scenes from a movie script,
or maybe it's just that the content of Benway reminds me of some old
fuzzy Planet of the Apes movie. Close to walking through the wards of an
ugly insane asylum but I'm always wondering why the narrator is on the
outside looking in. Couple of things to note:
pg. 37
"Gentle reader, the ugliness of that spectacle buggers description. Who
can be a cringing pissing coward, yet vicious as a purple-assed mandril,
alternating these deplorable conditions like vaudeville skits? Who can
shit on a fallen adversary who, dying, easts the shit and screams with
joy? [this was reminiscent stanzas of Howl that all being with who,
and especially where Ginsberg writes, "Who let themselves be fucked in
the ass by saintly motorcyclists and screemed with joy"] Who can hang a
weak passive and catch the sperm in his mouth like a vivious dog? Gentle
reader, I fain would spare you this, but my pen hath its will like the
Ancient Mariner. Oh Christ what a scene is this! Can tongue or pen
accommodate these scandels? A beastly young hooligan has gouged out the
eye of his confrere and fuck him in the brain. 'This brain atrophy
already, and dry as grandmother's cunt."
You have to admire Burroughs vivid descriptions, although it's hard to
figure out what brings about these visions where everything is out of
Control:
"Rock and Roll adolescent hoodlums storm the streets of all nations.
They rush into the Louvre and throw acid on Mona Lisa's face. They open
zoos, insane asylums, prisons, burst water mains with air hammers, chop
the floor out of passenger plane lavatories, shoot out lighthouses, file
elevator cables to one thin wire, turn sewers into the water supply,
throw sharks and sting rays, electric eels and candiru into swimming
pools (the candiru is a small eel-like fish or worm about one-quarter
inch through and two inches long patronizing certain rivers of ill repute
in the Greater Amazon Basin, will dart up your prick or your asshole or a
woman's cunt faute de mieux, and hold himself there by sharp spines with
precisely what motives is not known since no one has stepped forward to
observe the candiru's life-cycle in situ), in nautical costumes ram the
Queen Mary full speed into New York Harbor, play chicken with passenger
planes and buses, rush into hospital with white coats carrying saws and
axes and scalpels three feet long; throw paralytics out of iron lungs
(mimic their suffocations flopping about on the floor and rolling their
eyes up), administer injections with bicycle pumps, disconnect artificial
kidneys, saw a woman in half with a two-man surgical saw, they drive
herds of squeeling pigs into the Curb, they shit on the floors of the
United Nations and wipe their asses with treaties, pacts, and alliances."
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 05:38:05 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: On the Road: drunkenness
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On the Road, pg. 39, when he is describing Dean's (Neal's) father,
Kerouac writes, "His father, once a respectable and hardworking tinsmith,
had become a wine alcoholic, which is worse than a whiskey alcoholic..."
>From Kerouac's descriptions in all the later books, he was himself always
drinking wine and not whiskey. Why is a wine alcoholic worse than a
whiskey alcoholic? Any ideas?
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 14:39:09 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Naked Lunch
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Diane De Rooy wrote:
>
> This is the kind of crap that has made me sign off three times so far.
>
> Douglas, shut the fuck up, okay?
>
Diane,
Thanks for rising to my defense. Hadn't noticed doug's little poke
before you pointed it out because I had been instantly deleting him--as
you tend to do with folks who post so much that they need several
different addresses to avoid having any problems with the ten post
limit, or whatever it is.
Was it Yeats who said, "The best lack all conviction/ While the worst
are full of a passionate intensity"?
J Stauffer
> diane
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 17:45:59 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: On the Road: drunkenness
In-Reply-To: <33F6F0AD.1B7B@together.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
it all sounds like changing seats on the titanic, to me.
hey DC!
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 15:08:54 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: event horizon (theory & spoilers)
Mime-Version: 1.0
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ok, just mustered home from the movie, "event horizon". some comments:
ok, perhaps in the battle of death vs aesthetics, I am willing to concede
that death has the final hand. <<perhaps>> movie questions the big lie,
technology, human experience, and the reaches of understanding. Very
similar to Lem's "solaris" (and as filmed by Tarkovsky).
you build a machine, you keep secrets, you explore. thing returns with
life of own. Crew destroyed by madness and their own hells. The machine
is alive, sir. The machine is alive. "do you see?" "yes, I see".
oh, how technology is used to enhance our lives. this goes without
question. optimism has seen blood shed, has become academic shooting
galleries. heroine for the brain. william tell for the soul. fuck you,
fuck you.
oh, I have to admit the movie scares me. Scares me like Naked Lunch scares
me. Remember making it thru half of the book and then putting it down,
running in horror. Still don't think I have enough of a grip on life to
read it again.
and then writing out of it. believing that creativity is the life raft of
a consciousness. not blocking its progress with the whatfors, the
questions of what makes _its_ inner workings tick. This is another lie.
That outside of technology, outside of humour, outside of it all, there
rests another solution. Well, I guess there are solutions. There are
fail-safe plans. And the overrides? What of them? The machine is alive,
I tell you. Do you see? "yes, I see".
Oedipus and his mother, his father, his adopted parents, his children.
Fucking tragic tale. Wish I knew more about it. How it relates to the
popcorn I was eating, how it relates to the lady behind me who jokingly
remarked to her companion, "ah, the best capitalism has to offer". What is
that, I wondered, not wanting to turn around and ask.
and in this chaotic vision, there are those that refuse to return. those
will live. yes, those that will life. Probably why in pre-enlightened
days, such knowledge was preserved in a few people, knowledge was granted
over time in strict, controlled ways. All of that is gone now. Reading
before the movie a new book by Todd Oldham, fashion designer. He's talking
about how 100, no 30 years ago, "creativity" must have been different. No
pressing techo eyes forcing their, causing your own eyes to bug out. He
says that only he, he has survived because of an "idiot savant" tendancy.
just flits and trusts his way around. Takes care of his people, I imagine.
and it's why I think literature and all it's cracked up to be on this list
is such a big houey. Life is bigger than a few interesting posts on
"literature". Oh, so glad to be talking about "literature" again. Just an
academic shooting gallery for control freaks, IMHO. been there, done that,
and don't want to return just yet, thank you. Oh, I don't know. I don't
know.
am wondering if and what WSB would have said. Does Naked Lunch have a
happy ending? Thinking about a question Diane Carter asked a while back
regarding Kerouac and his view of the world? Something like, "where has
the joy in the joy/darkness paradigm gone?". Hm. You create something to
run away from something else. And what you've created begins a life of
it's own. And then wham bam thank you mame, you're back where you started
from. The vicious cycle. the vicious cycle.
so what role does death play? The movie "event horizon" gives a few clues
in that direction. It fuels the fire is all I can say. all I can say
without rambling on more. without bringing in other references. Fire walk
with me. Firewalker.
returning to the son, I used to be. Hell me, I'm falling....
>> Douglas
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ | 0 |
step aside, and let the man go thru | { - |
----> let the man go thru | /\ |
super bon-bon (soul coughing) =========
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 15:13:17 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall <dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: Re: new format
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>In a message dated 97-08-17 13:30:06 EDT, you write:
>In a message dated x/y/z, Suzie Creemcheeze writes:
>If the only thing that results from the formatting discussion is a
>cessation of personal posts to the list, that will certainly be enough.
>
>ddr
>
What's a "personal post"? I've got an idea but it's making me giggle.
If it's left to the individual subscriber to decide what is
list-pertinent, there's still no way to avoid getting messages which may be
better sent privately [like that one which told Douglas (I believe it was)
to "shut the fuck up"].
Anyway, I'm all for the new format as I understand it. It's no different.
People are going to be shits under any format.
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 06:29:42 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Naked Lunch
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> James Stauffer wrote:
> Was it Yeats who said, "The best lack all conviction/ While the worst
> are full of a passionate intensity"?
Yes, in his poem, The Second Coming. He also said in the same verse:
"The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world"
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 19:42:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "P.A.Maher" <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Some of the Dharma - Publisher Weeklys reviews
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I have posted Publisher Weekly's review of Some of the Dharma:
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/page3.html
Please send me any clippings of this book via e-mail for web page posting.
Thanks, Paul of The Kerouac Quarterly. . .
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 19:28:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Carrie Sherlock <csherloc@UOGUELPH.CA>
Subject: Lou Reed and the Beats
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
What was the extent of the relationship with, or the influence of, the
beats and Lou Reed?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 20:41:47 -0400
Reply-To: Corduroy <corduroy@earthlink.net>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Corduroy <corduroy@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: DigitalDharma
Comments: To: Bohemian Mailing List <BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Digital Dharma
http://www.microaero.com/snarg/index_main.html
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 18:04:27 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Some of the Dharma - Publisher Weeklys reviews
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Thanks for this Paul,
The Kirkus review was strange in its' hostility.
That bothers me none. I have no problem with opinions. But in this case
the writers ignorance was shown.
He/She wrote that it seemed Kerouac was trying to imitate Burroughs cut-up
technique.
kerouac was working on this between 53 and 55 or so, a number of years
before Burroughs began the cut-up as we know it.
The writer acts as if kerouac read Burroughs books or something and was
imitating them.
At 07:42 PM 8/17/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I have posted Publisher Weekly's review of Some of the Dharma:
>
>http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/page3.html
>
>Please send me any clippings of this book via e-mail for web page posting.
>
>Thanks, Paul of The Kerouac Quarterly. . .
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 22:16:21 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "P.A.Maher" <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Some of the Dharma - Publisher Weeklys reviews
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 06:04 PM 8/17/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Thanks for this Paul,
>
>The Kirkus review was strange in its' hostility.
>
>That bothers me none. I have no problem with opinions. But in this case
>the writers ignorance was shown.
>
>He/She wrote that it seemed Kerouac was trying to imitate Burroughs cut-up
>technique.
>
>kerouac was working on this between 53 and 55 or so, a number of years
>before Burroughs began the cut-up as we know it.
>
>The writer acts as if kerouac read Burroughs books or something and was
>imitating them.
>
>
>At 07:42 PM 8/17/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>I have posted Publisher Weekly's review of Some of the Dharma:
>>
>>http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/page3.html
>>
>>Please send me any clippings of this book via e-mail for web page posting.
>>
>>Thanks, Paul of The Kerouac Quarterly. . .
>>
>>
>Yes. . .it was a very slanted view from what seemed to be a critic
disturbed by Kerouac's seemingly misogynistic tone "PRETTY GIRLS MAKE GRAVES
F**K you all"
It is best not to approach such a biased review intellectually. Kerouac put
up with such nonsense (i.e. Norman Podhoretz for example) all his life. I
think Some of the Dharma tops the best of his published works. It is a
searching, mature, experimental writer we are reading by this time (mid -
1950's).
Best, Paul. . .
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 19:31:11 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Please Mr. Johnson, Hand Me a Winner
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Bentz,
I was reading too fast the first time this came through.
Was going through things to forward to a friend and reread it.
Flattered at being mentioned in such exalted company.
Nice work.
James
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 23:15:03 +0000
Reply-To: randyr@southeast.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>
From: randy royal <randyr@SOUTHEAST.NET>
Subject: unfair aurguments with existence
MIME-Version: 1.0
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hello all. just returned from a trip to new orkeans, and been
listening in some to know what's happening. picked up a cool little
ferlinghetti book, unfair aurguments with existence, it's some of his
drama. anyone know anything about it? i guess i will buy a copy of
naked lunch too, as that seems to be the current topic. anyone ever
listen to the movie's soundtrack? that is just phenomenal! one of my
favorite cds. is gregory corso still living in italy? i heard he
moved there for heroin cy~a randy
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 20:19:51 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: On the Road: drunkenness
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Just tentative impressions, not hard conclusions, but you asked for =
ideas. =20
Whiskey alcoholics generally more alive, tend to act on their stirring =
impulses, to splash about vigorously except when approaching total =
collapse, the periods of recuperation when they are totally passed out. =
Winos tend to be more slurred, defeated, drowning, vegetating, more =
inocuous, less combative, less aggressive acting outless destructive =
actions or poor judgement exercised, more chronically douzed, less =
alive, less effectively dangerous also.=20
----------
From: Diane Carter[SMTP:dcarter@TOGETHER.NET]
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 1997 5:38 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: On the Road: drunkenness
. Why is a wine alcoholic worse than a
whiskey alcoholic? Any ideas?
DC
.-
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 23:40:09 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sean Elias <SPElias@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: On death and dying........
In a message dated 97-08-15 14:39:05 EDT, you write:
<< In retrospect, I do think it odd
that I chose a sample of his ("When death becomes you...") as part of my
contribution to a net-based tape loop project going on in the weeks just
before his death. All those unsuspecting tape recorders playing this
message, just before he died -- hmm, I wonder if he would have gotten a kick
out of that. >>
Does anybody else think it odd, that having lost Uncle Bill, then a few days
later Fela Kuti, that I made a special visit to the Indian/Pakistani
neighborhood in Chicago, to buy a hard to find variety of couscous and a few
CDs/cassettes by Nusfrat Fateh Ali Kahn (sp?), to find _his_ obit in the
Sunday paper?????????
Seems like all my heros are dropping like the flies........
r.i.p. et.al..........
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 23:40:10 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sean Elias <SPElias@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: D & D
In a message dated 97-08-15 14:39:05 EDT, you write:
<< I do think it odd >>
Can anyone give me a clue on the Burroughs track that I know I have but
cannot locate--on On-U records---a sample of him chanting "
pay it all back, pay it AAAAllllll back" (inimatable style).............
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 23:42:59 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Morgan <Ferlingh2@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: ferling, etc
Ferlinghetti's newest book "A Far Rockaway of the Heart" has been out for a
few months now from New Directions and it continues the tradition of "A Coney
Island of the Mind". Well worth looking into, one of his better efforts of
late.
Yours,
Bill Morgan
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 20:53:57 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Burroughs]
----------
From: R. Bentz Kirby[SMTP:bocelts@SCSN.NET]
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 1997 8:00 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: [Fwd: Burroughs]
Well, I have been scanning the Dylan list for some more good Burroughs
posts. And I couldn't find anymore, so the action must have died down.
But since the beats play cosmic baseball on the net, and since the
action has dwindled, I did find this fine reference to Cal Ripken and
Eddie Murray. Seems timely since Anaheim just cut Eddie.
I know, or at least believe Jack was
very much into baseball. How about Neal, or any others.
Neal didn't talk much about baseball. He followed races with intense
enthusiasm. Watched all the races he could on TV, kept track of outcomes,
drivers, etc.. Tried to make it to the horse races whenever he could. When
he worked in Los Gatos he tried to make it to all the Saturday afternoon
last races at Belmont which were free. He also collected all the Chronicle
Green Sheets with results from the horse races, compiling proof of his
theory that if you had simutaneously stationed people to bet on third
choice in all the races across the country that you would win big. Never
was able to convince enough investors to follow through, inspite of his
closet full Green pages that he used to try to prove his theory.
leon
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end
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 01:30:11 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Naked Lunch: Chapter 1, up to Benway
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Diane Carter wrote:
>
> Maybe I'm missing something but where did this idea of the Big Lie come
> from?
Douglas was using it.
It seems to me that Burrough's notion of the universe is equal
> part big lie and big truth. The notion of a creator playing with the
> creation comes to mind. There's a natural order of things and an
> inversion of the natural order of things.
> DC
inversions twisting angles all seems good. i think big lie probably
confuses things somewhat. also humour especially dark-types is one way
to invert and twist the angles of truth and justice and american way and
whatnot to get all the shitout of the shithouse. i believe that is
about all i have to say until i get the book tuesday or wednesday.
david rhaesa
salina, Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 00:50:18 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: don't go to sleep mad (was: Naked Lunch)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
who gave that advice? And what was the second couplet line: "just go
away..."?
I figure I oughta speak out, get what's off my chest before I went to
sleep. Have been thinking about this for a while now. Still not sure how
to accurately respond. You ask me not to speak, not to post to the list.
Have been thinking about the obsecenity trials, about WSB's reflection on
Ginsberg and his fight against the big lies. About the youth of America.
about my life.
Hopefully my dreams tonight will guide me to a better answer than this
rambling mess. Have to ask "why go on?" Love, I guess. that helps. But
it's more than that, I suppose. Why creative types do what they do.
Popularity? Control? Fear? and back again to love, I guess, but eeew, who
wants to say that?
It's so simple, I guess. My two best friends are out of town tonight. I
wish I could call them and chit chat over all of this. get some good
advice. Started "western lands" tonight. need to get back to Joyce and
Dali, too.
I don't have it in me to fight with you. Just don't blame me for your
decisions to unsubscribe. Don't make this into a popularity contest. And
please, if you're gonna criticism my posts, please have the decency to read
them first. but I'm not even sure I want you to do that. It's obvious
we're not going to be much, friends. But I'll tell you anyhow the "beat"
issues I'm currently dealing with:
- the role of death in the joy/darkness paradigm (DC, Kerouac
discussion)
- "Why go on?" (WSB, June 6)
- the big lie, the green tit, and hole punching holy holy across
the sky (WSB, May 25)
- WSB's relation to music and the arts (as exemplified by the LACMA
show)
- the land of the dead, the western lands, the event horizon (what
are the links?)
- soon, WSB's relation to James Joyce's "Bloom"
- the paranoid-critical method of salvador dali
- the "surrealist" landscapes of yves tanguey
- the cut-up method, appropriation, escaping the vicious cycle
- writing a way out of death
and then some. Check out my home page for the visual interpretations.
Maybe we still have something to talk about??
and I kept thinking of what "cute" comment I'd make. the snide jab. The
best I could come up with is from WSB's New Yorker diary entry dated May
31, Saturday:
<<snip>> "No letters.
How good will it be to have total conformity?
What will be left of singularity?
And personality? And you and me?"
That and how it relates to our new techno-email age. Nobody writes letters
anymore (snail). What will the historians of the future do with all this
"ink"? And singularities, my god. Soon, I will have an engine capable of
dealing with those entities.
oh, oh, oh. Hopefully, I'll be able to fall asleep soon.
Douglas
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
At 2:07 PM -0700 8/17/97, Diane De Rooy wrote:
> In a message dated 97-08-17 16:58:34 EDT, you write:
>
> << Who cares?! I don't know. Am glad that it ended when
> it did, before someone pulled out the machete and started hacking their
> computer to death. Surprised James didn't write me personally and tell me
> to shut the fuck up. >>
>
> Is this a disease of newsgroups? This pissy, petulant sarcasm launched
> against even the slightest of rubs?
>
> This is the kind of crap that has made me sign off three times so far.
>
> Douglas, shut the fuck up, okay?
>
> diane
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ | 0 | The map is
not the territory
| { - | --Korzybski
----> | /\ |
=========
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 11:02:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Eric Blanco <Chimera@WEBTV.NET>
Subject: Re: Lou Reed and the Beats
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV)
Hello everybody:
I don't know if you would consider any
of the following a connection, buuuuutt...
according to the booklet that came with
the LR box set, "Between Thought And
Expression":
In 1959, while at NYU, Reed was
an avid contemporary jazz buff, programming a jazz radio show, and into
the music of Monk, Coltrane and Coleman.
He was a great admirer of the
poet, essayist and short story writer
Delmore Shwartz (In Dreams Begin
Responsibilities, pub.1937). Would he
be considered a Beat or an influence on
them? Shwartz inspired Reed to study the
works of Joyce and Keats, and it was
during this time that Lou wrote the Velvet
Underground classic "Heroin".
On the back cover of Reed's
"The Blue Mask" lp, Lou dedicated the
song "My House" to Shwatrz. Burroughs
might have been a big influence as well,
at least during Reeds' VU days.
"Waiting For The Man" ( "The man is never on time. This is no
accident."-taken
from the intro to NL), "Sister Ray", "Venus
In Furs", "The Black Angel's Death Song"
(his vocal delivery here, in fact, his way
of talk-singing in general, might be considered Beat-ish.), probably any
of
these songs, or the VU's first three albums, would make a terrific
soundtrack
to NL. Junky-according to the booklet that
came with the VU box set "Peel Slowly
And See"-thanks to WSB's confessional
style and wit (still going by the booket,
I haven't read Junky yet) inspired Reed
to write Heroin.
I'll be the first to say that I'm
reaching with all this, but any excuse to
talk about LR/VU is a good one. I wish
everyone on the list a wonderful week.
Chimera
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 10:23:04 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MATT HANNAN <MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>
Subject: Re: On the Road: drunkenness
Mime-Version: 1.0
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No, I'm not starting my "alcoholic" diatribe again but I thought I'd
respond to this.
In the purest sense alcoholism is alcoholism; however, I will concede
wine and whiskey do produce different "drunks" due to their chemical
compositions. Strangely enough whiskey and other hard liquor destroys
the mucin lining the stomach at a quicker rate than wine. So maybe,
(or maybe not) if Jack had stuck to Tokay we would have had him around
a little longer (probably not). It's *my opinion* that wine is more
aggravating to the system and hence produces more vomiting which would
have lead to bleeding varicies in the throat and a hemorrage vs.
destroying the mucin lining and dying of a "middle-gi" hemmorage.
Jack was right, but he didn't know by how much.
love and lilies,
matt
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: On the Road: drunkenness
Author: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> at Internet
Date: 8/17/97 5:38 AM
On the Road, pg. 39, when he is describing Dean's (Neal's) father,
Kerouac writes, "His father, once a respectable and hardworking tinsmith,
had become a wine alcoholic, which is worse than a whiskey alcoholic..."
>From Kerouac's descriptions in all the later books, he was himself always
drinking wine and not whiskey. Why is a wine alcoholic worse than a
whiskey alcoholic? Any ideas?
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 10:25:58 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MATT HANNAN <MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>
Subject: Re: Lou Reed and the Beats
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Correct me if I'm wrong, oh those more knowledgeable than me" but
didn't WSB hang out with Andy Warhol? If so there's a connection, if
not an influence.
love and lilies,
matt
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Lou Reed and the Beats
Author: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> at Internet
Date: 8/17/97 7:28 PM
What was the extent of the relationship with, or the influence of, the
beats and Lou Reed?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 11:56:35 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: On the Road: drunkenness
In-Reply-To: <01BCAB4B.0EFEAE80@mbay69.cruzio.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Whiskey is expensive. Whiskey alcoholics have more money. By the time the
alcoholic gets to wine he/she is usually close to the bottom of the
economic ladder.
j grant
>Just tentative impressions, not hard conclusions, but you asked for ideas.
>
>Whiskey alcoholics generally more alive, tend to act on their stirring
>impulses, to splash about vigorously except when approaching total
>collapse, the periods of recuperation when they are totally passed out.
>Winos tend to be more slurred, defeated, drowning, vegetating, more
>inocuous, less combative, less aggressive acting outless destructive
>actions or poor judgement exercised, more chronically douzed, less alive,
>less effectively dangerous also.
>
>----------
>From: Diane Carter[SMTP:dcarter@TOGETHER.NET]
>Sent: Sunday, August 17, 1997 5:38 AM
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Subject: On the Road: drunkenness
>
>. Why is a wine alcoholic worse than a
>whiskey alcoholic? Any ideas?
>DC
>.-
Small Press Authors and Publishers display books
FREE
http://www.bookzen.com/addbook-form.html
375,913 visitors - 07-01-96 to 07-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 10:18:29 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: Naked Lunch: Benway
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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Diane writ:
<<
>pg. 37
>"Gentle reader, the ugliness of that spectacle buggers description. Who
>can be a cringing pissing coward, yet vicious as a purple-assed mandril,
>alternating these deplorable conditions like vaudeville skits? Who can
>shit on a fallen adversary who, dying, easts the shit and screams with
>joy? [this was reminiscent stanzas of Howl that all being with who,
>and especially where Ginsberg writes, "Who let themselves be fucked in
>the ass by saintly motorcyclists and screemed with joy"] Who can hang a
>weak passive and catch the sperm in his mouth like a vivious dog? Gentle
>reader, I fain would spare you this, but my pen hath its will like the
>Ancient Mariner. Oh Christ what a scene is this! Can tongue or pen
>accommodate these scandels? A beastly young hooligan has gouged out the
>eye of his confrere and fuck him in the brain. 'This brain atrophy
>already, and dry as grandmother's cunt."
>>
Diane, as always, thanx for typin out all this. My hands would hurt.
I especially liked the 'eye gouging' part. So many poets have eye
fetishes. The denigration of the bodily act, the removal from the body,
and it's associations with dark and perverted actions. Then associating
all of this with different layers of meaning. Goes back to the Oedipus
thoughts I had while watching the movie "event horizon". One can also
get into dreams and their visions from here also. Perhaps this is a
clue towards your questions of why Burroughs is always writing from the
outside <??>
<<
>You have to admire Burroughs vivid descriptions, although it's hard to
>figure out what brings about these visions where everything is out of
>Control:
>
>"Rock and Roll adolescent hoodlums storm the streets of all nations.
>They rush into the Louvre and throw acid on Mona Lisa's face. They open
>zoos, insane asylums, prisons, burst water mains with air hammers, chop
>the floor out of passenger plane lavatories, shoot out lighthouses, file
>elevator cables to one thin wire, turn sewers into the water supply,
>throw sharks and sting rays, electric eels and candiru into swimming
>pools (the candiru is a small eel-like fish or worm about one-quarter
>inch through and two inches long patronizing certain rivers of ill repute
>in the Greater Amazon Basin, will dart up your prick or your asshole or a
>woman's cunt faute de mieux, and hold himself there by sharp spines with
>precisely what motives is not known since no one has stepped forward to
>observe the candiru's life-cycle in situ), in nautical costumes ram the
>Queen Mary full speed into New York Harbor, play chicken with passenger
>planes and buses, rush into hospital with white coats carrying saws and
>axes and scalpels three feet long; throw paralytics out of iron lungs
>(mimic their suffocations flopping about on the floor and rolling their
>eyes up), administer injections with bicycle pumps, disconnect artificial
>kidneys, saw a woman in half with a two-man surgical saw, they drive
>herds of squeeling pigs into the Curb, they shit on the floors of the
>United Nations and wipe their asses with treaties, pacts, and alliances."
>>
Have you ever been stuck in a bathroom line, Diane? just holding it in,
watching all these men go ahead of you into their own stalls? Questions
and visions such as those above begin to creep in. Destroying the order
as it appears to you thru a yellow, jaundiced eye. Rationalizing the
acts of madmen who do all these incalculable things. Inverting the
natural order and following that back to it's source. Makes me think of
the TV shows "x-files" and "millenium" (by Chris Carter). Getting into
the mind of chaos, as burroughs says, unable to stop his pen or tongue
from writing all that out. And I won't go as far as say that his
descriptions are an apology, are an act of "writing away death" per se.
I don't know.
and by the way, did you ever get a satisfactory answer to this question:
"Does the narrator have power in
his observations and the words he uses, or is he merely a scribe forced
to write about that which he cannot change?"
Douglas
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 11:14:44 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MATT HANNAN <MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>
Subject: Re[2]: On the Road: drunkenness
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Whiskey is expensive. Whiskey alcoholics have more money. By the time the
>alcoholic gets to wine he/she is usually close to the bottom of the
>economic ladder.
>j grant
"...the bottom ofthe economic ladder." To keep this within the
framework of the BEAT-L list I'll phrase my reply this way. Since
Jack was never un-voluntarily homeless, always had *some* money, and
most likely died from the consequences of alcoholism, you can draw the
conclusion that there is no such thing as "economic alcoholism".
Alcoholics come in all lifestyles, economic classes and ethnic
backgrounds, from both genders. While there probably aren't as many
alcoholic millionaires as there are broke ones, the view that the only
people suffering from alcoholism are "bums on the street" went out a
long time ago. Heck, I even know a recovering alcoholic who owns a
computer :-)
love and lilies,
matt
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 14:12:15 +0000
Reply-To: randyr@southeast.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>
From: randy royal <randyr@SOUTHEAST.NET>
Subject: Re: On the Road: drunkenness
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> Whiskey is expensive. Whiskey alcoholics have more money. By the time the
> alcoholic gets to wine he/she is usually close to the bottom of the
> economic ladder.
perhaps jack just liked wine?
>
> j grant
randy
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 15:47:28 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Re: Lou Reed and the Beats
In-Reply-To: <3F87BB00.@usoc.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Mon, 18 Aug 1997, MATT HANNAN wrote:
> Correct me if I'm wrong, oh those more knowledgeable than me" but
> didn't WSB hang out with Andy Warhol? If so there's a connection, if
> not an influence.
>
> love and lilies,
>
> matt
>
Actually, it was Allen Ginsberg who hung out with Warhol back in the 60's
when Warhol was hot. Burroughs was living in London so wouldnt have met
Warhol until many years later when Warhol was past his "fifteen minutes"
of fame and past when Burroughs hadwritten mostof his works. So Idont
think there was a direct influence.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 13:34:28 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization: Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Hey Lew! Homage To Lew Welch (fwd)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
yall
i thought that some of you might be interesteed in this, which i found on
alt.books.beatgeneration (man there is a lot of junk and trolling on that
newsgroup, egad!)
yrs
derek
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 12:48:34 -0700
From: Richard Hughey <rkhughey@pacbell.net>
Newsgroups: alt.books.beatgeneration
Subject: Hey Lew! Homage To Lew Welch
New book on Lew Welch: Hey Lew! Homage to Lew Welch.
Interviews, poems, biosketches, photos, drawings etc.
on S.F. BeatGen poet Lew Welch.
Edited by Magda Cregg, who lived with Lew 1964-1971.
Contributors: Snyder, Whelan, Creeley, Meltzer, Kyger,
McClure etc., also Peter Coyote and Huey Lewis.
Write Magda Cregg, Box 964, Bolinas CA 94924.
Copies: $12 post paid.
RKH
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 13:13:36 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Arthur Maynard <prinzhal@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: On the Road: drunkenness
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>. Why is a wine alcoholic worse than a
>>whiskey alcoholic? Any ideas?
>>DC
>>.-
I think the high sugar content (seems to me Jack often refers to "sweet
port") tends to deliver more brain-mash effect than the same dose of alcohol
administered through whisky. That would help explain why the big sellers on
skid row and in the inner city seem to be port, tokay and rotgut sherry.
Plus, since the alcohol content is lower than whisky, you can keep drinking
longer...
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 14:49:18 -0700
Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adrien Begrand <vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: Re: Hey Lew! Homage To Lew Welch (fwd)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi all,
I recently read Aram Saroyan's Genesis Angels (good book!) and it
mentioned something interesting. According to him, during Lew Welch's
last few days at an advertising agency he culled the famous Raid slogan:
'Raid Kills Bugs Dead.'
How true is this? I'd like it to be true, it'd be cool to know there's a
little conribution by Welch to 20th century pop culture.
Anyone know the truth behind this?
Adrien
Derek A. Beaulieu wrote:
>
> yall
> i thought that some of you might be interesteed in this, which i found on
> alt.books.beatgeneration (man there is a lot of junk and trolling on that
> newsgroup, egad!)
> yrs
> derek
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 12:48:34 -0700
> From: Richard Hughey <rkhughey@pacbell.net>
> Newsgroups: alt.books.beatgeneration
> Subject: Hey Lew! Homage To Lew Welch
>
> New book on Lew Welch: Hey Lew! Homage to Lew Welch.
> Interviews, poems, biosketches, photos, drawings etc.
> on S.F. BeatGen poet Lew Welch.
> Edited by Magda Cregg, who lived with Lew 1964-1971.
> Contributors: Snyder, Whelan, Creeley, Meltzer, Kyger,
> McClure etc., also Peter Coyote and Huey Lewis.
> Write Magda Cregg, Box 964, Bolinas CA 94924.
> Copies: $12 post paid.
> RKH
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 14:59:30 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Lou Reed and the Beats
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.970818154533.29685A-100000@cap1.capaccess.org>
from "Richard Wallner" at Aug 18, 97 03:47:28 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Well, Lou Reed was one of the speakers at the memorial
service for Ginsberg at St. Mark's Church this past
April. He read "Magic and Loss." I've often thought
of Lou as fairly Beat-like, tho I don't think there
are many actual connections.
------------------------------------------------------
| Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com |
| |
| Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
| (3 years old and still running) |
| |
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at http://coffeehousebook.com |
| |
| *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* |
| |
| "It was my dream that screwed up" |
| -- Jack Kerouac |
------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 15:16:51 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Slim Gaillard and Jack...and the hipsters
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About the Slim Gaillard trivia question posed by Antoine Maloney,
I don't know.
That's why I didn't hazard a guess.
As I remember it was who is Slim famous musician son-in-law.
OK, times up I give and it seems like no one else is going to pose an answer
so...
OK, who?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 15:18:34 -0700
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Slim Gaillard and Jack...and the hipsters
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Answer to my trivia question.
I asked what PBS show did Jack kerouac say the slim gaillard line "flat foot
floogie with the floy floy"?
If I am not mistaken I believe it was on William F. Buckeley's Firing Line.
Apparently Jack got up and said it somehwhat out of the blue.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 00:38:12 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Awww, mama... can this really... be the end...
Mime-Version: 1.0
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memphis blues again by Bob Dylan
oh the ragman draws circles
up and down the block
I'd ask him what the matter was
but I know that he don't talk
and the ladies treat me kindly
and they furnish me with tea
but deep inside my heart
I know I can't escape
oh mama can this really be the end
to be stuck inside of mobile
with the memphis blues again
well shakespeare he's in the alley
with his pointed shoes and his bells
speaking to some french girl
who says she knows me well
and I would send a message
to find out if she's talked
but the post office has been stolen
and the mailbox is locked
mona tried to tell me
to stay away from the train line
she said that all the rairoad men
just drink up your blood like wine
and I said oh I didn't know that
but then again there's only one I've met
and he just smoked my eyelids
and punched my cigarette
grandpa died last week
and now he's buried in the rocks
but everybody still talks about
how badly they were shocked
but me I experienced it to happen
I knew he'd lost control
when he built a fire on main street
and shot it full of holes
now the senator came down here
showing everyone his gun
handling out free tickets
to the wedding of his son
but me I nearly got busted
and wouldn't it be my luck
to get caught without a ticket
and be discovered beneath a truck
now the tea pitcher looked so baffled
when I asked him why he dressed
with twenty pounds of headlines
stapled to his chest
but he cursed me when I proved to him
then I whispered and said
not even you can hide
you see you're just like me
I hope you're satisfied
now the rainman gave me two cures
and said jump right in
the one was texas medicine
the other was just railroad gin
and like a fool I mixed them
and it strangled up my mind
and now people just get uglier
and I have no sense of time
when ruthie says come see her
in her honky tonk lagoon
where I can watch her waltz for free
neath her panamanian moon
and I say oh come on now
you know you know about my debutante
and she says your debutante just knows
what you need
but I know what you want
now the bricks lay on the grand street
where the neon madman climb
they all fall there so perfectly
they all seem so well timed
and here I sit so patiently
waiting to find out what price
you have to pay to get out of
going through all these things twice
oh mama can this really be the end
to be stuck inside of mobile
with the memphis blues again
[Bob Dylan, Blonde on Blonde, 1966]
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 16:36:54 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Stuck inside of Mobile
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> and I say oh come on now
> you know you know about my debutante
> and she says your debutante just knows
> what you need
> but I know what you want
>
Rinaldo,
Thanks for posting and refreshing the memory. It is just unreal how
"on" Dylan was in Hwy 61 and Blonde on Blonde. Wore a lot those records
out myself, as I imagine most of us did.
J. Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 07:41:52 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Naked Lunch: Benway
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> Penn, Douglas, K. wrote:
> Have you ever been stuck in a bathroom line, Diane? just holding it
> in,
> watching all these men go ahead of you into their own stalls?
> Questions
> and visions such as those above begin to creep in. Destroying the
> order
> as it appears to you thru a yellow, jaundiced eye. Rationalizing the
> acts of madmen who do all these incalculable things. Inverting the
> natural order and following that back to it's source. Makes me think
> of
> the TV shows "x-files" and "millenium" (by Chris Carter). Getting into
> the mind of chaos, as burroughs says, unable to stop his pen or tongue
> from writing all that out. And I won't go as far as say that his
> descriptions are an apology, are an act of "writing away death" per se.
> I don't know.
No, never been stuck in a bathroom line waiting for the MEN to go in
before me. But are you saying that Burroughs' descriptions in the quoted
paragraphs are just the kinds of things that come into people's head
every day as they run into things that make their bodies uncomfortable?
Is that equivalent to the discomfort of waiting for junk? Waiting for
anything? Waiting for Godot perhaps? Dark humor. A horror show in the
mind. Burroughs seems to take us on a journey through the
deconstruction, perhaps de-structuring of society/the world through
horrific images but what does do his images actually evoke? It seems
that this line of discovery would be important since individual words and
images are the only thing that hold together a work without any real
characters or progression of events.
> and by the way, did you ever get a satisfactory answer to this > question:
>
> "Does the narrator have power in
> his observations and the words he uses, or is he merely a scribe forced
> to write about that which he cannot change?"
No, I'm still waiting for ideas, I was going to say answers, but I don;t
think there are any.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 15:57:22 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: The Darkness of Buddishm.
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970816230359.006adf80@pop.gpnet.it> from "Rinaldo
Rasa" at Aug 16, 97 11:03:59 pm
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Slightly slow response on my part, but:
Rinaldo wrote:
> "A man who uses Buddhism or any other instrument to
> remove love from his being in order to avoid,
> has committed, in my mind, a sacrilege comparable
> to castration."-- William S. Burroughs' letter to Jack Kerouac.
> From "Letters of William S. Burroughs 1945-1959."
As somebody who calls himself a Buddhist, I'd like
to say that Burroughs comments about the religion are
at least very intelligent. He grasps the essence
of Buddhism, which is self-denial. I like it
when somebody comes up with a *good* reason not
to be a Buddhist, and Burroughs' reasons are good.
Reminds me of when I first read Neitzsche's similar
scorching of the Buddhist religion in "A Genealogy
of Morals," when I was around 19 years old. This
led me to a crisis of faith that lasted a couple of
years. I respect Burroughs and Neitzsche for
understanding what Buddhism is and choosing to
position themselves against it. That's better
than flimsily paying lip service to it, or
attacking it for misinformed reasons.
All I can really say in counterpoint is that we
all come up with our ways of dealing with "the
slings and arrows of outrageous fortune." I've
written somewhere that Burroughs had "porcupine
skin" -- that was his defense mechanism. Neitzsche
never got a good defense mechanism going, maybe
because he was schizophrenic, or maybe not, but
he lived the 2nd half of his life in horrible
misery. The Buddhist practice is just another
way of surviving. Ultimately I don't think
there's anybody in the world who hasn't sometimes
felt what Buddha felt when he said "All Life
is Suffering." And I also don't think there's
any Buddhist out there who hasn't sometimes felt
that life was just peachy keen and a whole lot
of fun.
As for this though:
> "When the Vietnamese communists
> took Saigon in 1975, they put their "class
> enemies" into re-education camps. In
> neighboring Cambodia, Pol Pot built exter-
> mination camps. Techears, doctors, people
> who could speak a foreing language, even
> people who wore glasses, were purged as
> he sought to reduce all of Cambodia to the
> level of the peasant class. The Vietnamese
> could be cruel captors, but their Confucian
> heritage left them open to educational re-
> form. In Cambodia, by contrast, Buddhism
> encouraged a belief in the ineluctability
> of karma and the idea that evil suffered
> is evil deserved. ''The idea of karma
> goes very deep in this society, and I
> think that was part of the mentality of
> the Khmer Rouge when they were massacring
> people,'' said Francois Ponvhaud, a priest
> who first went in Cambodia in 1965. '' They
> believed their victims had made errors,
> political errors, and that killing them
> would allow them to be reborn as better
> people in their next lives''. Pol Pot has
> admitted to some mistakes in the period
> from 1975 to 1979, but in his eyes they
> were mistakes of policy. About the million
> dead, he has never expressed any remorse."
> From "Terry McCarthy-- TIME,AUGUST 11,1997."
I'm sorry, this is what I'd call the kind of
misinformed criticism that *does* piss me off.
Cambodia and Vietnam were both Thereveda Buddhist
countries -- this notion that some vague threads
of Confucianism in Vietnamese culture were what
saved it from the evils that befell Cambodia
may make a nice little Time article, but is
way too flimsy to stand as a philosophical critique
of a religion. And China was more Confician
than Vietnam -- how would he explain Mao's crimes
against humanity? This just doesn't stand up,
it's just the kind of dull analytic blather
that keeps political pundits employed, in my
never-very-humble (but I'm trying) opinion.
------------------------------------------------------
| Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com |
| |
| Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
| (3 years old and still running) |
| |
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at http://coffeehousebook.com |
| |
| *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* |
| |
| "It was my dream that screwed up" |
| -- Jack Kerouac |
------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 17:50:08 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Darkness of Buddishm.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I wondered when or if anyone would comment about this. Glad to see it.
I did note in Burroughs letter that he talks about Buddhism and then
mentions reading Theosophy tracts. I think this is an indication of maybe a
watered down or distorted understanding or view because I don't think the
Theospophical Society has much relation to Buddhism really. But, that's
another argument.
But as well another but, I hoped to make the same point about Vietnam and
Cambodia in light of Mao and China.
I don't know how confucian Cambodia was/is compared to Vietnam but China
certainly was confucian. Interestingly Mao hated confucius more than anything.
Also, I wouldn't take at face value that the Vietnamese communists only
re-educated their enemies. And also remember that they didn't "win" until
1975. If they'd have come to power a decade earlier things would be very
different as well.
My in-laws are heavy duty Buddhist and one of the things I've noticed is
their Buddhism seems to be very different from the sort of dry and
intellectual or philosophical type of Buddism that you hear most about in
the US. It would be interesting to hear about these differences between
"real" (real in quotes in quotes) Buddhists and American's who practice
Buddhism.
At 03:57 PM 8/18/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Slightly slow response on my part, but:
>
>Rinaldo wrote:
>> "A man who uses Buddhism or any other instrument to
>> remove love from his being in order to avoid,
>> has committed, in my mind, a sacrilege comparable
>> to castration."-- William S. Burroughs' letter to Jack Kerouac.
>> From "Letters of William S. Burroughs 1945-1959."
>
>As somebody who calls himself a Buddhist, I'd like
>to say that Burroughs comments about the religion are
>at least very intelligent. He grasps the essence
>of Buddhism, which is self-denial. I like it
>when somebody comes up with a *good* reason not
>to be a Buddhist, and Burroughs' reasons are good.
>
>Reminds me of when I first read Neitzsche's similar
>scorching of the Buddhist religion in "A Genealogy
>of Morals," when I was around 19 years old. This
>led me to a crisis of faith that lasted a couple of
>years. I respect Burroughs and Neitzsche for
>understanding what Buddhism is and choosing to
>position themselves against it. That's better
>than flimsily paying lip service to it, or
>attacking it for misinformed reasons.
>
>All I can really say in counterpoint is that we
>all come up with our ways of dealing with "the
>slings and arrows of outrageous fortune." I've
>written somewhere that Burroughs had "porcupine
>skin" -- that was his defense mechanism. Neitzsche
>never got a good defense mechanism going, maybe
>because he was schizophrenic, or maybe not, but
>he lived the 2nd half of his life in horrible
>misery. The Buddhist practice is just another
>way of surviving. Ultimately I don't think
>there's anybody in the world who hasn't sometimes
>felt what Buddha felt when he said "All Life
>is Suffering." And I also don't think there's
>any Buddhist out there who hasn't sometimes felt
>that life was just peachy keen and a whole lot
>of fun.
>
>As for this though:
>> "When the Vietnamese communists
>> took Saigon in 1975, they put their "class
>> enemies" into re-education camps. In
>> neighboring Cambodia, Pol Pot built exter-
>> mination camps. Techears, doctors, people
>> who could speak a foreing language, even
>> people who wore glasses, were purged as
>> he sought to reduce all of Cambodia to the
>> level of the peasant class. The Vietnamese
>> could be cruel captors, but their Confucian
>> heritage left them open to educational re-
>> form. In Cambodia, by contrast, Buddhism
>> encouraged a belief in the ineluctability
>> of karma and the idea that evil suffered
>> is evil deserved. ''The idea of karma
>> goes very deep in this society, and I
>> think that was part of the mentality of
>> the Khmer Rouge when they were massacring
>> people,'' said Francois Ponvhaud, a priest
>> who first went in Cambodia in 1965. '' They
>> believed their victims had made errors,
>> political errors, and that killing them
>> would allow them to be reborn as better
>> people in their next lives''. Pol Pot has
>> admitted to some mistakes in the period
>> from 1975 to 1979, but in his eyes they
>> were mistakes of policy. About the million
>> dead, he has never expressed any remorse."
>> From "Terry McCarthy-- TIME,AUGUST 11,1997."
>
>I'm sorry, this is what I'd call the kind of
>misinformed criticism that *does* piss me off.
>Cambodia and Vietnam were both Thereveda Buddhist
>countries -- this notion that some vague threads
>of Confucianism in Vietnamese culture were what
>saved it from the evils that befell Cambodia
>may make a nice little Time article, but is
>way too flimsy to stand as a philosophical critique
>of a religion. And China was more Confician
>than Vietnam -- how would he explain Mao's crimes
>against humanity? This just doesn't stand up,
>it's just the kind of dull analytic blather
>that keeps political pundits employed, in my
>never-very-humble (but I'm trying) opinion.
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>| Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com |
>| |
>| Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
>| (3 years old and still running) |
>| |
>| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the Web" |
>| (a real book, like on paper) |
>| also at http://coffeehousebook.com |
>| |
>| *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* |
>| |
>| "It was my dream that screwed up" |
>| -- Jack Kerouac |
>------------------------------------------------------
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 18:14:50 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: Naked Lunch: Benway
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Diane writ:
<<
>Burroughs seems to take us on a journey through the
>deconstruction, perhaps de-structuring of society/the world through
>horrific images but what does do his images actually evoke? It seems
>that this line of discovery would be important since individual words and
>images are the only thing that hold together a work without any real
>characters or progression of events.
>>
Well, let me steal some words from "Surrealists and Surrealism" (pg34)
to answer your question of what his images actually invoke:
<<
A trite phrase or an illustration from a mail-order catalogue: this
external element was essential, but as a starting point, not as an end
in itself. A bulwark set up to stem the unwanted influx of the
conventional, the aesthetic, the bogus and the shallow, its function was
to get the self-imposed censor out of the way. And because we come
smack up against that commonplace or that borrowed drawing (or
whatever), the cloud bursts and manna comes down. The familiar, the
already seen, the already read, crumples up and reveals the never yet
seen, the never yet read. But the operation would not come off if it
were merely a montage of external elements: for those externals to be
seen through, they have to be shifted into the realm of mirages. The
disconnected words will only cast their spell if borne aloft on the
breath of poetry. The fixed planes of the collage are the unpredictable
episodes of a film whose inner impetus alone keeps the machinery turning
over.
We are as yet only in 1919, and these initial soundings of the depths
may be mistaken for the unsubsided effervescence of Dada, on which
Aragon commented: "Anyhow the world gets a good laugh out of their
antics."
>>
Thus, if I'm translating correctly, his images [nouns] of junk, society,
and (please add here) (a) remove the censor, (2) reveal the unseen in
the seen, (3) and translate the commonplace into poetry, (4) reveal the
"fixed" planes of his cross topics, and (5) give a clue to the "inner
impetus" of "the machine".
But what his inner impetus is, or what the machine actually does,
well,...??
and then there's the idea that the medium is the message (Marshall
McCluhen). That the collage technique that WSB uses is meant for a
specific purpose. That besides the basic organization of the novel,
it's possible to use the resultant chaos to interpret words, characters,
scenarios in new ways. New ways to write a novel, ways to live, to get
junk (in a non-physical way), and to escape death??
and lastly: humour.
BUT: the surrealists were always using "commonplace" items and
subverting them. WSB and the associated images seem to be starting from
the opposite, with "highly charged" subculture items and working them
back to commonplace ideas. I could be absolutely wrong here, but it's a
theory to work with at least.
- not just rebelling against the ordinary
- not just organizing and editing the surreal
- not just idealizing the possibilities
- but starting with the idea of a fucked up universe and working
backwords in a purifying manner to a universe which contains it's
[opposite]???
[[I'd really like to pass the painter Yves Tanguey thru WSB, but can't
find a book!!]]
and if I had WWW access, I'd give you a link to a Robert Williams or
S.Clay Wilson graphic. Same ideas, me thinks. I DON'T KNOW. I should
spend more time building the engine than analyzing the race. Going home
now...
>> DC
Douglas
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 22:19:50 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "P.A.Maher" <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Enlightments by Kerouac
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Coming soon:
On The Kerouac Quarterly web page, paintings based on Kerouac's
"Enlghtments" in POMES ALL SIZES. . . .as they are completed..these oils
will be photographed, posted and auctioned off (with a set ceiling price of
$50.00) and minimum bid feom $5.00. If you like the paintings try for them,
if you thinkthey suck wellll. . .. .don't.
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/page1.html
For an example of the kind of art they will look like go see "The Flood of
Dr.Sax" go to:
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/page2.html
I want these paintings to be low-priced and accessible, not a ton of money.
Because art, like the magic muse that inspires them, should be free like air. .
1st Enlightment: When you become enlightened you will know that you've been
enlightened all along. (Jack Kerouac, page 66 POMES ALL SIZES). . .
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 20:06:49 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: Naked Lunch: Benway (Sekhu Surface I)
In-Reply-To: <33F85F30.E1E@together.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 7:41 AM -0700 8/18/97, Diane Carter wrote:
> Burroughs seems to take us on a journey through the
> deconstruction, perhaps de-structuring of society/the world through
> horrific images but what does do his images actually evoke? It seems
> that this line of discovery would be important since individual words and
> images are the only thing that hold together a work without any real
> characters or progression of events.
>
At 3:57 PM -0700 8/18/97, Levi Asher wrote:
All I can really say in counterpoint is that we
all come up with our ways of dealing with "the
slings and arrows of outrageous fortune." I've
written somewhere that Burroughs had "porcupine
skin" -- that was his defense mechanism. Neitzsche
never got a good defense mechanism going, maybe
because he was schizophrenic, or maybe not, but
he lived the 2nd half of his life in horrible
misery. The Buddhist practice is just another
way of surviving. Ultimately I don't think
there's anybody in the world who hasn't sometimes
felt what Buddha felt when he said "All Life
is Suffering." And I also don't think there's
any Buddhist out there who hasn't sometimes felt
that life was just peachy keen and a whole lot
of fun.
> DC
------------------------------------------------------
| Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com |
| |
| Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
| (3 years old and still running) |
| |
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at http://coffeehousebook.com |
| |
| *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* |
| |
| "It was my dream that screwed up" |
| -- Jack Kerouac |
------------------------------------------------------
Douglas
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ | 0 | The map is
not the territory
| { - | --Korzybski
----> | /\ |
=========
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 20:32:53 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: (Sekhu Surface II)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 7:41 AM -0700 8/18/97, Diane Carter wrote:
At 3:57 PM -0700 8/18/97, Levi Asher wrote:
is Suffering." And I also don't think there's
any Buddhist out there who hasn't sometimes felt
> that this line of discovery would be important since individual words and
way of surviving. Ultimately I don't think
of fun.skin" -- that was his defense mechanism. Neitzsche
he lived the 2nd half of his life in horrible
all come up with our ways of dealing with "the
> characters or progression of events.
>
> images are the only thing that hold together a work without any real
never got a good defense mechanism going, maybe
> Burroughs seems to take us on a journey through the
> deconstruction, perhaps de-structuring of society/the world through
All I can really say in counterpoint is that we
> horrific images but what does do his images actually evoke? It seems
slings and arrows of outrageous fortune." I've
written somewhere that Burroughs had "porcupine
because he was schizophrenic, or maybe not, but
misery. The Buddhist practice is just another
there's anybody in the world who hasn't sometimes
felt what Buddha felt when he said "All Life
that life was just peachy keen and a whole lot
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 06:50:11 -0400
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: "it's all right ma, i'm only lurking
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970819003812.006870dc@pop.gpnet.it>
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in the midst of post bashing and furious reading of many texts this past
month, i find myself uncharacteristcally silent. if i have sent this over
the list before, please fogive my lousy mailer and memory. just wanted to
say hello to all.
mc
on not writing
i have not been writing
i have been painting
i have not thought of words,
but rather of
colors, shapes,
blending, edging,
worlds building on the page
is it sleep
is it dreaming
who is doing the painting?
landscapes of the mind
appear regularly as if
plucked out of thin air.
no memory
beyond the intent to paint
dreams of eternal landscape
building word less poems
not asleep
nor waking.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 06:57:12 -0500
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: On the Road: Young adult fiction???? and Chapter 1
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Diane Carter wrote:
>
> Is anyone ready to discuss books yet?
I just got OTR from the salina public library yesterday (is a public
library more communistic, socialistic, cooperative or what??? never
mind) . . .
SHOCKING. They have a sticker on it as Young Adult Fiction.
Now part of me drew back in horror at the thought of them doing this to
a wonderful book
but a sinister and subversive side of me likes very much that this book
will be in the young adult section. i may even begin to roam the
shelves of the fiction section and make other suggestions for Young
Adult classifications of REAL authors.
I have started Chapter One.
I guess it is sort of beating a dead mule but i'm asking myself about
JK's treatment of the character MaryLou.
The most troublesome thing to me is not that the character is described
as dumb and as a whore and whatnot. The most troubling thing is that
the character is compleatly silent - voiceless. Some woman - and
perhaps MaryLou will be one of them - are dumb and whores (just as many
men are). But the dismissing of the first woman in a voiceless manner
is troublesome.
I am not dwelling on this though and will continue to plow forward.
david rhaesa
salina, Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 08:39:44 -0400
Reply-To: Greg Elwell <elwellg@voicenet.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Greg Elwell <elwellg@VOICENET.COM>
Subject: Re: On the Road: Young adult fiction???? and Chapter 1
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HA! This makes me remember back to when I was in eighth grade, and a
classmate did a book report on OTR. This was back before I was into
Kerouac, so I didn't know much. All I can remember from his report is:
"This book really isn't about anything. It's just this dude driving across
the country."
Greg Elwell
elwellg@voicenet.com || elwellgr@hotmail.com
<http://www.voicenet.com/~elwellg>
-----Original Message-----
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tuesday, August 19, 1997 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: On the Road: Young adult fiction???? and Chapter 1
>Diane Carter wrote:
>>
>> Is anyone ready to discuss books yet?
>
>I just got OTR from the salina public library yesterday (is a public
>library more communistic, socialistic, cooperative or what??? never
>mind) . . .
>SHOCKING. They have a sticker on it as Young Adult Fiction.
>Now part of me drew back in horror at the thought of them doing this to
>a wonderful book
>but a sinister and subversive side of me likes very much that this book
>will be in the young adult section. i may even begin to roam the
>shelves of the fiction section and make other suggestions for Young
>Adult classifications of REAL authors.
>
>I have started Chapter One.
>I guess it is sort of beating a dead mule but i'm asking myself about
>JK's treatment of the character MaryLou.
>The most troublesome thing to me is not that the character is described
>as dumb and as a whore and whatnot. The most troubling thing is that
>the character is compleatly silent - voiceless. Some woman - and
>perhaps MaryLou will be one of them - are dumb and whores (just as many
>men are). But the dismissing of the first woman in a voiceless manner
>is troublesome.
>
>I am not dwelling on this though and will continue to plow forward.
>
>david rhaesa
>salina, Kansas
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 15:05:11 +0200
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: The Darkness of Buddishm.
In-Reply-To: <199708182257.PAA12729@netcom18.netcom.com>
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hello all beat friends,
--**--
i was *alot* staggered by the TIME article (quoted in the
previous post), the Pol Pot *violence with charm*,
the only XXme siecle utopia realized (1975-1979)
& one million dead, (Pol Pot was in childhood educated to
become a buddhist monk, & was a gentle schoolboy),
--**--
the beat's acceptance of buddishm & the Jack Keroauc's tragic death.
JK shifts from the catholic religion to buddishm as better resource for
a safe life. But at the end JK undermined himself, i think,
& i maybe wrong, that Eastern Lands aren't the response anyway...
--**--
Levi Asher wrote:
[excuse me for snippin' for brevity]
>I've written somewhere that Burroughs had "porcupine
>skin" -- that was his defense mechanism. Neitzsche
>never got a good defense mechanism going, maybe
>because he was schizophrenic, or maybe not, but
>he lived the 2nd half of his life in horrible
>misery.
The "porcupine skin" was an apologue written by
Arthur Schopenhauer (Nietzsche's master of philosophy),
the first western philosopher who studied & embraced
the eastern thought (id est, ''Parerga e Paralipomena''),
also Freud at last quoted the "porcupine" in his
thougth 'bout "the discomfourt in the society". Both
Schopenhauer & Nietzsche promoted having for
themself darkness & pain. Perhaps giving unconscious thread to
future nazi ideology... pain as a value in itself without
any salvation.
>The Buddhist practice is just another
>way of surviving. Ultimately I don't think
>there's anybody in the world who hasn't sometimes
>felt what Buddha felt when he said "All Life
>is Suffering." And I also don't think there's
>any Buddhist out there who hasn't sometimes felt
>that life was just peachy keen and a whole lot
>of fun.
"Vistors to Cambodia have come away charmed by the lush
beauty of the countryside and the smiling people.
But the violent side and the Cambodian life can manifest
itself without warning.
''Cambodian have this darkness, which is part of the
shadow of their sweetness,'' says David Chandler, who has
written a biography of Pol Pot and several histories of
the country. ''Many of us who keep going there still hard
to understand.'' Chandler observes that Pol Pot, with his
gentle voice, never failed to charm those he met. He
liked to quote French poetry. This was the same man who had
his staff executed after his house in Phnom Penh had
power failure."
>And China was more Confician
>than Vietnam -- how would he explain Mao's crimes
>against humanity? This just doesn't stand up,
>it's just the kind of dull analytic blather
>that keeps political pundits employed, in my
>never-very-humble (but I'm trying) opinion.
>
"Ancient violence takes on new forms: the
practice of setting fire to brides because of
the inadequacy of their dowries is on increase,
there is terrifying evidence that ritual child
sacrifice is being practiced by some followers
of the cult of goddess Kali, and communal violence
erupts regularly" -- Salman Rushdie, 1997.
saluti,
Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 08:36:34 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: The Darkness of Buddishm.
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Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
> Levi Asher wrote:
> [excuse me for snippin' for brevity]
> >I've written somewhere that Burroughs had "porcupine
> >skin" -- that was his defense mechanism. Neitzsche
> >never got a good defense mechanism going, maybe
> >because he was schizophrenic, or maybe not, but
> >he lived the 2nd half of his life in horrible
> >misery.
>
> The "porcupine skin" was an apologue written by
> Arthur Schopenhauer (Nietzsche's master of philosophy),
> the first western philosopher who studied & embraced
> the eastern thought (id est, ''Parerga e Paralipomena''),
> also Freud at last quoted the "porcupine" in his
> thougth 'bout "the discomfourt in the society". Both
> Schopenhauer & Nietzsche promoted having for
> themself darkness & pain. Perhaps giving unconscious thread to
> future nazi ideology... pain as a value in itself without
> any salvation.
i've had the feeling many times that WSB lived in many ways a form of
buddhist life without claiming it - or perhaps explicitly denying it -
and being willing to cut off the arm of youngsters who claimed this
connection. at the risk of my arms i'm throwing this out.
david rhaesa
salina, Kansas
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 10:05:37 -0400
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tony Trigilio <atrigili@LYNX.DAC.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Darkness of Buddhism.
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Hi Levi--Good to have you back on the list (my own slow response, I know).
I agree with you that Burroughs's comments on Buddhism are intelligent
rather than purely misinformed. I do think some questions of accuracy
remain, however:
>Slightly slow response on my part, but:
>
>Rinaldo wrote:
>> "A man who uses Buddhism or any other instrument to
>> remove love from his being in order to avoid,
>> has committed, in my mind, a sacrilege comparable
>> to castration."-- William S. Burroughs' letter to Jack Kerouac.
>> From "Letters of William S. Burroughs 1945-1959."
>
>As somebody who calls himself a Buddhist, I'd like
>to say that Burroughs comments about the religion are
>at least very intelligent. He grasps the essence
>of Buddhism, which is self-denial.
I've never had the impression that this "self-denial" is the "essence" of
Buddhism. What seems denied in Buddhism is a belief in an essential,
unchanging self--a self independent of and unencumbered by historical and
material conditions. Buddhism denies this kind of self, sure, as much as it
denies the opposite idea of selfhood: a self so mutable and changeable that
it cannot account for (and be responsible for) the joys and pains it creates
in the mind.
Then there are ascetic forms of self-denial or self-aversion (the "world" is
"illusion" and "I" cannot have "pleasure"--and suddenly every means of
experiencing the world is framed by scare quotes), which is what I think
most folks think of (wrongly) when they consider Buddhist self-denial. But
you countered this asceticism best in your closing words:
>Ultimately I don't think
>there's anybody in the world who hasn't sometimes
>felt what Buddha felt when he said "All Life
>is Suffering." And I also don't think there's
>any Buddhist out there who hasn't sometimes felt
>that life was just peachy keen and a whole lot
>of fun.
What has always motivated me about Buddhism is the Madhyamika (sp?)
"middle-way" school, in which both self-cherishing *and* self-aversion are
considered dangerous extremes. I find that too often in the West, we focus
on Dharma teachings about self-cherishing without adding that the Buddha
also cautioned against self-aversion. The two, for me, seem inseparable.
>I like it
>when somebody comes up with a *good* reason not
>to be a Buddhist, and Burroughs' reasons are good.
I also like it when one finds *good* reasons not to be a Buddhist. What I
like in the quotation Rinaldo posted was that Burroughs was not reading
against Buddhism so much as against how one *practices* Buddhism. If the
core of many Buddhisms is non-violence and altruism--and I think it is--then
Burroughs is right on the mark, and is speaking against those who misuse
Buddhism when he says, "A man who uses Buddhism or any other instrument to
remove love from his being in order to avoid, has committed, in my mind, a
sacrilege comparable to castration." The little I know of the many
Buddhisms in the contemporary world suggests to me that any person who uses
Buddhism to "remove love" from one's own being--rather than habituate
oneself to love--is indeed committing oneself to a form of self-aversion
that is a sacrilege.
So, what I see in the Burroughs quote, isn't so much a good reason not to be
a Buddhist, but a good caution against how a religious practice such as
Buddhism could be misused.
(Life *is* peachy today--my cat-skratch'd-infected thumb is healing [I can
hit the spacebar with hardly any pain], and a big old cup of coffee solved
the suffering of waking . . .)
Tony
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 22:54:41 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: On the Road: Young adult fiction???? and Chapter 1
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> RACE wrote:
> I have started Chapter One.
> I guess it is sort of beating a dead mule but i'm asking myself about
> JK's treatment of the character MaryLou.
> The most troublesome thing to me is not that the character is described
> as dumb and as a whore and whatnot. The most troubling thing is that
> the character is compleatly silent - voiceless. Some woman - and
> perhaps MaryLou will be one of them - are dumb and whores (just as many
> men are). But the dismissing of the first woman in a voiceless manner
> is troublesome.
>
> I am not dwelling on this though and will continue to plow forward.
I think I've read five Kerouac books in a row and unfortunately this is
the way he portrays all women, except for the one at the end of Big Sur,
who actually was given to philosophical dialogue. I think in On the Road
this type of woman characterization is more prevelant too because he
spends most of his time trying to imitate Cody's relationship with women,
which in the across the country scenes is no more than random sex in
different cities. I've decided the best way to get past Kerouac's
attitude toward women is to ignore it, believing that in great writing,
there is no male or female anyway, only the experience of what it means
to be human.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 10:52:24 -0400
Reply-To: paw8670@mailer.fsu.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Preston Whaley Jr." <paw8670@MAILER.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: On the Road: Young adult fiction???? and Chapter 1
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David Rhaesa,
Your post touches on my own problems with JK's mysogyny. Visions of
Cody is particularly egregious. Nevertheless, I still think VC is one
of the most forward looking works I've ever read. I take the sexism and
its result -- inability to hear the woman's voice -- to be a confession,
driven by the artistic need to exorcise bigotry, i.e. blockages. Kerouac
acknowledged the problem of patriarchy somewhere. He said bad gender
relations are man's fault. I think it's in On the Road, but I can't
find it. If any one knows please share.
glad to be in the circle,
PW
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 23:09:07 -0700
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: The Darkness of Buddishm.
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> Rinaldo Rasa wrote: --**--
> the beat's acceptance of buddishm & the Jack Keroauc's tragic death.
> JK shifts from the catholic religion to buddishm as better resource for
> a safe life. But at the end JK undermined himself, i think,
I don't think that JK's shift to Buddhism ever held up well, or got him
anywhere, it was only one more thing to try in his search for meaning.
Perhaps the new book will prove differently, I'm beginning more to think
that he found that there was no earthly use for any religion for none
could prevent death, He goes on and on about what is the point of life,
birth, or anything in view of the fact that we are all going to die. It
seems also that the more he tried to get into Buddhism, peeling off
layers of self, the more he found self-hatred.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 11:14:32 -0700
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Chris Dumond <dumo13@EROLS.COM>
Subject: Wino -- more darkness
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Hi. Finally something I can (maybe) sink my teeth into?
Jack's LOVE of wine...
It's just one part of Jack's search for his truth. Many of you who have
read VISIONS OF CODY and other of Jack's books will recall his disgust
towards the American dream and how he says that it robs people of their
instinct, how it makes them forget what true happiness is... Well, it's
my belief that Jack found the most beat characters he could find and
emulated them in hope of finding satori or whatever. An aspect of this
was the wino. Jack loved winos! He really didn't have to be poor... he
could've gone along with the MEAT WHEEL but he didn't. He intentionally
dressed like a bum, hung out with bums (in back alleys of redbrick
drinking WINE)... it's kind of a retarded version of Sidhartha (please
excuse my spelling) and his quest for enlightenment -- when he became
(crap! I forget what they're called!) one of those little indian guys who
sits by the river and doesn't eat and seeks enlightenment thru it and he
realizes that it's a whole bunch of bull to keep tortureing yourself and
eventually becomes the Buddha. Well, this was Jack's road too, forcing
himself into the bottom of society... except that while Jack had his
enlightenment he was too addicted to the lifestyle to ever enjoy the
satori of the good life.
The Naked Lunch being like a movie comment was right on! I've always
thought of that book as a sick movie/dream inside Bill's head... being
directed by little globs of heroin... it even literally becomes a movie
during the middle of the book.
Chris
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 11:17:55 -0700
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Chris Dumond <dumo13@EROLS.COM>
Subject: one more thing...
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Sorry, I forgot to tack this onto my last post:
What is up with Jack Kerouac and the use of his word "redbrick"? I mean,
in VOC he uses it maybe a million times! It's also persvasive in his
poetry.
Chris
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 11:23:57 -0400
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alex Howard <kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mysgogyny (was On the Road: Young adu....)
In-Reply-To: <33F9B328.552E@mailer.acns.fsu.edu>
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On Tue, 19 Aug 1997, Preston Whaley Jr. wrote:
> Your post touches on my own problems with JK's mysogyny. Visions of
> Cody is particularly egregious. Nevertheless, I still think VC is one
> of the most forward looking works I've ever read. I take the sexism and
> its result -- inability to hear the woman's voice -- to be a confession,
> driven by the artistic need to exorcise bigotry, i.e. blockages.
The sexist attitudes of many of the beats is a real stumbling block for me
when it comes to talking about and teaching the beats. One of my friends
gave up completely on the beats because of this after reading Dharma Bums
and Tristessa. Trying to get people to look past that is sometimes like
trying to knock down a brick wall with your head. And its hard to
contradict those attitudes when you only have a handful of really
productive women whose work you can showcase. Even then most of them came
later on. In the beginning it was Jack and Neal and the boys and that's
about it except for the girlfriends who rarely lasted that long.
------------------
Alex Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State University
kh14586@acs.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www.acs.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 11:36:57 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: Slim Gaillard and Jack...and the hipsters
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Answer to Quiz #2:
Slim's son-in-law was Marvin Gaye, one of the crown princes of soul music.
He had Slim Gaillard sit in on the album "Midnight Love"; he added
hand-clapping!?!
Anybody know if Kerouac - Cassady were into doowop, Rhythm 'n blues or soul?
Antoine
**********
>About the Slim Gaillard trivia question posed by Antoine Maloney,
>
>I don't know.
>
>That's why I didn't hazard a guess.
>
>As I remember it was who is Slim famous musician son-in-law.
>
>OK, times up I give and it seems like no one else is going to pose an answer
>so...
>
>OK, who?
>
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 08:50:40 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Slim Gaillard and Jack...and the hipsters
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Answer to Quiz #2:
>
>Slim's son-in-law was Marvin Gaye,
Wow! That's big time.
>one of the crown princes of soul music.
>He had Slim Gaillard sit in on the album "Midnight Love"; he added
>hand-clapping!?!
>
>Anybody know if Kerouac - Cassady were into doowop, Rhythm 'n blues or soul?
>
>Antoine
>
> **********
>>About the Slim Gaillard trivia question posed by Antoine Maloney,
>>
>>I don't know.
>>
>>That's why I didn't hazard a guess.
>>
>>As I remember it was who is Slim famous musician son-in-law.
>>
>>OK, times up I give and it seems like no one else is going to pose an answer
>>so...
>>
>>OK, who?
>>
> Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
>
> "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"
> -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 18:33:57 +-200
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Arno Neele <arnoniem@TIP.NL>
Subject: AW: On the Road: Young adult fiction???? and Chapter 1
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"The truth of the matter is we don't understand our women; we blame on them and
it's all our fault." (OTR, page 122)
Maybe this is what you were looking for.
arno
----------
Van: Preston Whaley Jr.[SMTP:paw8670@MAILER.FSU.EDU]
Verzonden: dinsdag 19 augustus 1997 16:52
Aan: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Onderwerp: Re: On the Road: Young adult fiction???? and Chapter 1
David Rhaesa,
Your post touches on my own problems with JK's mysogyny. Visions of
Cody is particularly egregious. Nevertheless, I still think VC is one
of the most forward looking works I've ever read. I take the sexism and
its result -- inability to hear the woman's voice -- to be a confession,
driven by the artistic need to exorcise bigotry, i.e. blockages. Kerouac
acknowledged the problem of patriarchy somewhere. He said bad gender
relations are man's fault. I think it's in On the Road, but I can't
find it. If any one knows please share.
glad to be in the circle,
PW
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 10:09:12 -0400
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From: MATT HANNAN <MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>
Subject: Re[2]: The Darkness of Buddishm.
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My in-laws are heavy duty Buddhist and one of the things I've noticed is
their Buddhism seems to be very different from the sort of dry and
intellectual or philosophical type of Buddism that you hear most about in
the US. It would be interesting to hear about these differences between
"real" (real in quotes in quotes) Buddhists and American's who practice
Buddhism.
There are many schools of Buddhism. The theology heavy schools of
Tibetan, Korean, Vietnamese, etc. are very different than the Zen
Schools of China and Japan, as different as Catholicism and the
"lighter" shades of Protestantism.
matt
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 12:54:29 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "Dawn B. Sova" <DawnDR@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: On the Road: Young adult fiction???? and Chapter 1
David R. noted that the public library has OTR classified as "Young Adult
Fiction." I had to comment --- and hold onto your hat when you hear this.
Just completed for reference publisher Facts on File, Inc., two volumes of a
four-volume set on censorship --- my two volumes were books that have been
censored/banned/challenged for "Social" content and for "Erotic" content
(summaries/case histories, etc.). Couldn't find my copy of NAKED LUNCH, so I
ordered a copy through interlibrary loan from another public library in the
county system here in New Jersey. NAKED LUNCH is classed as "YA" in at
least 5 of those libraries!!! (Of course, many others have "lost" it.) Know
something?? I laughed, and felt very subversive as I said NOTHING!
I'd be curious if other Beat books are similarly classified. What a
wonderful way to let the system open minds.
Dawn
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 09:45:32 -0700
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From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: The Darkness of Buddishm.
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----------
Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
i've had the feeling many times that WSB lived in many ways a form of
buddhist life without claiming it - or perhaps explicitly denying it -
and being willing to cut off the arm of youngsters who claimed this
connection. at the risk of my arms i'm throwing this out.
David
Am I too literal here? Not literary enough? David, I can hardly believe it? You
mean it?
leon
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 13:04:25 -0400
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From: "Hipster Beat Poet." <jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>
Subject: Third Mind anyone?
In-Reply-To: <970819125241_655415373@emout12.mail.aol.com>
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According to a recent book pricing publication, "The Third Mind" is worth
about $45.00. From what i understand this book is no longer in print. I
have only been able to take out a copy at the local library here in NJ
but recently it has vanished. Is there any way of obtaining a copy for
sale? It is one of the major books missing in my collection, along with
"Tornado Alley."
thanks,
jason
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 10:08:24 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: The Darkness of Buddishm.
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----------
From: RACE ---[SMTP:race@MIDUSA.NET]
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 1997 6:36 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: The Darkness of Buddishm.
I'll get it right this time=20
David Rhaesa wrote:
=09
Amorphous regions overlaying the literally with the literary are =
getting fuzzy here for me. Cutup confusing Rasa with Rinaldo -- =
Apologies Rinaldo and Rasa for my last goof with attribution. In other =
words just getting confused here a might.=20
Hey David, you still got your arm, right? Sticks and stones will break =
your bones but words will never hurt you. Yeah, right?
david rhaesa
salina, Kansas
>
.-
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 12:34:43 -0500
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: The Darkness of Buddishm.
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Leon Tabory wrote:
>
> ----------
> From: RACE ---[SMTP:race@MIDUSA.NET]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 1997 6:36 AM
> To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> Subject: Re: The Darkness of Buddishm.
>
> I'll get it right this time
>
> David Rhaesa wrote:
>
> Amorphous regions overlaying the literally with the literary are
getting fuzzy here for me. Cutup confusing Rasa with Rinaldo --
Apologies Rinaldo and Rasa for my last goof with attribution. In other
words just getting confused here a might.
>
> Hey David, you still got your arm, right? Sticks and stones will break your
bones but words will never hurt you. Yeah, right?
>
> david rhaesa
> salina, Kansas
> >
> .-
arm is fine.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 10:43:13 -0700
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From: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Third Mind anyone?
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Really???
I remember back in 80 - 82 this book was available in scads at $3 or so for
the hardback. Moe's in berkely and Logos in Santa Cruz had bunches of them.
I may even have had bought a copy. Don't know where it is today.
My how times change.
At 01:04 PM 8/19/97 -0400, you wrote:
>According to a recent book pricing publication, "The Third Mind" is worth
>about $45.00. From what i understand this book is no longer in print. I
>have only been able to take out a copy at the local library here in NJ
>but recently it has vanished. Is there any way of obtaining a copy for
>sale? It is one of the major books missing in my collection, along with
>"Tornado Alley."
> thanks,
> jason
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 15:10:39 -0400
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From: Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Third Mind anyone?
Jason et al:
Regarding the Burroughs/Gysin collaboration, The Third Mind," if you can find
a nice copy for $45.00, grab it. The price guide has underestimated the vaue
of this gem from 1978. Viking (Penguin) should definitely bring it back into
print.
As far as Tornado Alley by Burroughs goes (illustrated by S. Clay Wilson),
we've got plenty of copies on hand in two editions:
1. paperback: $11.95
2. Hardcover: $20.00
shipping is $2.00.
I've got a Third Mind first edition hardcover in dust jacket signed by both
Burroughs and Gysin in near mint condition - If interested, drop me a line
here at Water Row -
Jeffrey
Water Row Books
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 16:31:31 -0500
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From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Books by Jan Kerouac
In-Reply-To: <970819150914_1883943480@emout03.mail.aol.com>
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Jeffrey
I have two of Jan's books on hold somewhere. I got side-tracked and do not
have the phone number to call. A hard cover in mint condition of either
Baby Driver or Train and a soft cover of the same book.
Do you know who it was that had notices of collectors stuff--Beat Stuff--on
teh List a few weeks ago? Was it you?
Thanks,
j grant
Small Press Authors and Publishers display books
FREE
http://www.bookzen.com/addbook-form.html
375,913 visitors - 07-01-96 to 07-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 07:37:55 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Naked Lunch: Benway
Comments: cc: SSASN@AOL.COM, dkpenn@oees.com
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> Penn, Douglas, K. wrote:
> BUT: the surrealists were always using "commonplace" items and
> subverting them. WSB and the associated images seem to be starting
> from
> the opposite, with "highly charged" subculture items and working them
> back to commonplace ideas. I could be absolutely wrong here, but it's
> a
> theory to work with at least.
>
> - not just rebelling against the ordinary
> - not just organizing and editing the surreal
> - not just idealizing the possibilities
> - but starting with the idea of a fucked up universe and working
> backwords in a purifying manner to a universe which contains it's
> [opposite]???
I'm not sure agree that he's working backward to commonplace ideas or in
a purifying manner, although the act of writing is surely a release of
some kind. I think the whole universe of Naked Lunch (as far as I've
read so far) is based on the premise everyone needs something and their
place in the universe is defined by what they need at what level. No one
gets what they need or want. I'm not sure they even know what that is.
I'm also not sure that his violent, dark images are surreal or that these
images are meant to come from an unconscious level. The narrator's
reality is perverted and dark, fucked up, if you will, but his reality is
"out there" as they way things are, the way society is. This is not a
dream from which he is trying to awake but a script written by his
conscious mind.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 19:27:02 -0400
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From: John J Dorfner <Kirouack@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Burroughs and musical influences
i enjoyed this stuff diane...thanks for sharing it. i'm going through my
files from beat-l and deleting stuff. maybe i'll catch ya later.
john
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 21:31:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mitchell Smith <Praetor77@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: On the Road: Young adult fiction???? and Chapter 1
Tired, tired, tired of the whole women question. Similar to the race card
that is played now and then. I was asked in my PhD candidacy oral defense
about the portrayal of Mexicans in Road. The young Mexican-American professor
questioning me went on at some length about "Kerouac's" assertion that
Mexicans do not care about appearances. The prof explained the inaccuracy,
described just how much Mexican culture is based on appearances, how white
American imperialist it was to impose readings on another culture, and the
"R" word came up of course. How could I defend an author who wrote such
things?
Weellll, whether Kerouac was an "R" or not, I don't know and don't care. But
I asked, did the professor really expect a young white guy circa 1950 like
Sal Paradise to really have the PC race/gender/orientation ideology of a 90's
liberal college professor? If he did, I would find the chararcter pretty
unreal and poorly written. Kinda like "Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman" where we go
back into the Old West with all our PC assumptions. Cute and cuddly, but real
it ain't.
So are you "troubled" by Kerouac's treatment of women and blacks in his
writing? Don't be troubled (a typical weak university term, like
"problematic")--be terrified. Don't suspect that his attitudes weren't PC.
They weren't even close. And don't think that you might be able to find
something that will redeem him. You won't and who cares?
Kerouac the man had every right to his opinions and to put them into his
writing. English Departments seem to aspire to be amateur sociologists,
psychologists, or political editorialists. They call into question every
philosophical assumption except their own political correctness. Personally,
this is not the path for me. Whether Kerouac's view on race, gender, or ice
hockey conform to my own or not, I am still moved by his artistic brillance
and will not say he is a bad writer because he doesn't agree with me.
And I will not write off his complex themes with one word answers like racist
or sexist. Let's go deeper than that. When someone says his portrayal of
Mexicans is racist, I answer, "And....?" What does that mean? Where does it
go? These days EVERYONE can be smeared with those kinds of words. So those
who use them be warned: they've lost their power. With Kerouac, I want to
know more deeply the particulars and motivations and symbolic resonances of
the writing. One word write-offs don't make that.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 20:48:43 -0500
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: On the Road: Young adult fiction???? and Chapter 1
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Mitchell Smith wrote:
>
> And I will not write off his complex themes with one word answers like racist
or sexist. Let's go deeper than that. When someone says his portrayal of
Mexicans is racist, I answer, "And....?" What does that mean? Where does it go?
These days EVERYONE can be smeared with those kinds of words. So those who use
them be warned: they've lost their power. With Kerouac, I want to know more
deeply the particulars and motivations and symbolic resonances of the writing.
One word write-offs don't make that.
Perhaps i was misunderstood. I'm about as politically correct as the
pope. I was not saying this makes JK evil. I wasn't suggesting that
one not read him or suggest him or praise his abilities. It does seem
that he continually is unable to provide female characters with nearly
the same depth as the rest of his writing. Perhaps this is due to the
experiences he had.
I'm sorry that you received such harrassment from the Race angle on your
committee but please don't turn around and play the same game by
accusing me of playing "a card" when that is not what i said at all.
respectfully,
david rhaesa
salina, Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 18:49:24 -0700
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From: runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: build an engine
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am trying to build an engine that will take
beat lit theory to
art history methodology
to artistic product
wish me luck and thanx to all on this list for
all their ideas, info, and whatnot
<<unsubscribe>>
Douglas
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ | 0 | The map is
not the territory
| { - | --Korzybski
----> | /\ |
=========
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 21:19:41 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: how did you meet the beats.
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Charles,
How and when did you meet Allen or William? As much as I sympathise
with the ernest academics about this being a place dedicated to
discussion of literature, to me the literature comes untidily wrapped in
the social life and community that the literature evolved from. I am
interested in the travel and points of contact people had.
Patricia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 19:31:47 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: build an engine
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I do wish you luck. I will miss your creative piercing contributions. Please
keep in touch and let us know what you are coming up with
Bon Chance
leon
----------
From: runner[SMTP:babu@ELECTRICITI.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 1997 6:49 PM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: build an engine
am trying to build an engine that will take
beat lit theory to
art history methodology
to artistic product
wish me luck and thanx to all on this list for
all their ideas, info, and whatnot
<<unsubscribe>>
Douglas
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ | 0 | The map is
not the territory
| { - | --Korzybski
----> | /\ |
=========
.-
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 19:59:28 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: The Darkness of Buddhism.
In-Reply-To: <199708191405.KAA05111@lynx.dac.neu.edu> from "Tony Trigilio" at
Aug 19, 97 10:05:37 am
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I wrote:
> >As somebody who calls himself a Buddhist, I'd like
> >to say that Burroughs comments about the religion are
> >at least very intelligent. He grasps the essence
> >of Buddhism, which is self-denial.
Tony wrote:
> I've never had the impression that this "self-denial" is the "essence" of
> Buddhism. What seems denied in Buddhism is a belief in an essential,
> unchanging self--a self independent of and unencumbered by historical and
> material conditions. Buddhism denies this kind of self, sure, as much as it
> denies the opposite idea of selfhood: a self so mutable and changeable that
> it cannot account for (and be responsible for) the joys and pains it creates
> in the mind.
and also:
> Burroughs is right on the mark, and is speaking against those who misuse
> Buddhism when he says, "A man who uses Buddhism or any other instrument to
> remove love from his being in order to avoid, has committed, in my mind, a
> sacrilege comparable to castration." The little I know of the many
> Buddhisms in the contemporary world suggests to me that any person who uses
> Buddhism to "remove love" from one's own being--rather than habituate
> oneself to love--is indeed committing oneself to a form of self-aversion
> that is a sacrilege.
I think you're right, and I guess I'm being overly
extreme to say that self-denial is the essence of
Buddhism.
It's important to realize, as you said, that Buddha
did not teach extreme asceticism (self-denial) but
rather pointed towards a "middle way" between
the two opposite traps, self-denial and self-indulgence.
But I think it's the self-denial aspect of Buddhism
that people think more about, mainly because humans
tend to be naturally self-indulgent, so reaching
the "middle way" is usually acheived only with
strong doses of renunciation. Very few people
are so naturally unselfish that they have to reach
the middle way by becoming *more* selfish.
Nice thought, though.
About the difference between American Buddhists
and actual Asian Buddhists, I agree that they
are worlds apart. I remember when my wife and
I, looking for some enlightenment on a hot summer
day in Queens, wandered into a Korean Buddhist
temple in Corona. They stared at us like we
were insane. Looked kinda fun in there, though,
wish they could have let us stay ...
------------------------------------------------------
| Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com |
| |
| Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
| (3 years old and still running) |
| |
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at http://coffeehousebook.com |
| |
| *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* |
| |
| "It was my dream that screwed up" |
| -- Jack Kerouac |
------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 23:57:19 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Kyle Mays <kmays@VOICENET.COM>
Subject: Subscribe help
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I was wondering if anyone can help me subscribe to the Beat-l. Thanks for
any help.
Kyle Mays
kmays@voicenet.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 21:47:09 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: On the Road: Young adult fiction???? and Chapter 1
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Mitchell,
Thanks for you post which is excellent. It is entirely bogus to expect
the Beats to be PC. In my comments on JK and women I really wasn't
meaning to suggest that. It is more my contention that JK wrote very
poor women characters. I personally don't care whether he was sexist of
not. His problem rather than mine. A more relevant issue is whether
his inability to see women in any sort of totality limited him as a
writer. Sort of a problem for a novelist and, if we were to follow
Leslie Fiedler, an endemic problem for American novelists at least. But
I can think of a lot of American writers who wrote far more realized
women than Jack could. Henry James and Scott Fitzgerald come to mind.
Jack writes wonderfully about alot of things. But women aren't one. I
am inclined to agree that the painful relationship with Billie, which is
no fun at all to read, may be the only time he got it very real.
But thanks for your refreshingly non-PC point of view. And thanks for
reminding me why I shouldn't miss the world of English departments.
J. Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 23:02:37 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: 710 Ashbury and other treasures
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Beat-L folks with lots of money and a Deadhead orientation may want to
know that they have the chance of a lifetime to buy the Dead house at
710 Ashbury. Just bring your prequalified loan to bid over the 900,000
minimum bid and you're in the game. Butterfield and Butterfield is
doing a "Summer of Love" auction in which the house is the featured
attraction, other items include the original contract for the Charlatans
to play at the Red Dog Saloon. I will send off for the catalog to see
if there is anything literary included.
J. Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:33:47 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Jan Keroauc First Editions
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Can someone help me with this?
I reserved a couple of First Editions of Jan Keroauc's and before I had a
chance to call back with credit card info I misplaced name of the book
dealer.
At the same time my computer ate some files.
The information came to me via the Beat List. If the book dealer sees this
please contact me so Ican get the $ to you.
Thanks,
j grant
Small Press Authors and Publishers display books
FREE
http://www.bookzen.com/addbook-form.html
375,913 visitors - 07-01-96 to 07-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 10:12:17 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PATRICK <EASTWIND@EROLS.COM>
Organization: EASTWIND PUBLISHING
Subject: Re: Slim Gaillard and Jack...and the hipsters
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Antoine Maloney wrote:
>
> Answer to Quiz #2:
>
> Slim's son-in-law was Marvin Gaye, one of the crown princes of soul music.
> He had Slim Gaillard sit in on the album "Midnight Love"; he added
> hand-clapping!?!
>
> Anybody know if Kerouac - Cassady were into doowop, Rhythm 'n blues or soul?
>
> Antoine
>
> **********
> >About the Slim Gaillard trivia question posed by Antoine Maloney,
> >
> >I don't know.
> >
> >That's why I didn't hazard a guess.
> >
> >As I remember it was who is Slim famous musician son-in-law.
> >
> >OK, times up I give and it seems like no one else is going to pose an answer
> >so...
> >
> >OK, who?
> >
> Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
>
> "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"
> -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips
I never met kerouac, but I met Ginsberg, Corso in Paris at the Beat
Hotel in the late 50s'- and can tell you with assuarnce that the music
of the beats was American Jazz---Coltrane, Bud Powell and the early Chet
Baker when he was just starting in Calif.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 10:19:42 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PATRICK <EASTWIND@EROLS.COM>
Organization: EASTWIND PUBLISHING
Subject: Re: Cross posting from RMD
Comments: To: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
> >From time to time, I check out the Dylan news group. I used to post
> there a lot till I found the beat-l and found it to be more fun, and
> less spam. (Wonderful spam!). There has been raging a fierce war
> between the condemn Burroughs to hell and the Burroughs just told the
> truth folks. I have found several posts that are quite good in the
> defense of Burroughs. The ones that lead into them are quite bad but
> have been repeated in the follow up posts. I sent two that I thought
> were particularly good to P and she said that they good food for
> thought. I am going to post those two to the list, because I think they
> contain good summaries of the merits of WSB's work.
>
> The posts are not intended to draw comments, and we certainly do not
> need to discuss the drivel that lead to these posts. But, I think it is
> helpful to the list to gain a perspective of how some who are not on the
> list perceive and defend WSB. If anyone wants to comment, feel free.
> But these two posts are cross posts and will be labeled as such. I do
> not intend to comment on them, just cross post.
>
> If you care to see the full exchanges, point your news reader at:
>
> rec.music.dylan
>
> Then check out the burroughs rot in hell thread, or something like that.
>
> Peace,
> Thanks.
> --
> Bentz
> bocelts@scsn.net
>
> http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Doesanyone have any information on the Beats in Paris,France at the Beat
Hotel?--that is, articles etc.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:24:42 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MATT HANNAN <MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>
Subject: Re[2]: The Darkness of Buddhism.
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>"A man who uses Buddhism or any other instrument to remove love from his
being in order to avoid, has committed, in my mind, a sacrilege comparable
to castration."
The word "uses", I think, is the key here. I don't think he's suggesting
that *Buddhism* removes love but that someone can mis-use the tenets of
Buddhism to say "I don't/can't/won't love because that's 'attachment'".
Do I have a firm grasp of the obvious or what?
love and lilies,
matt
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 11:18:13 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Re: Jan Keroauc First Editions
In-Reply-To: <v03007801b020a1b737ad@[156.46.45.72]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Wed, 20 Aug 1997, jo grant wrote:
> Can someone help me with this?
>
> I reserved a couple of First Editions of Jan Keroauc's and before I had a
> chance to call back with credit card info I misplaced name of the book
> dealer.
>
Call the rare book dept at the Strand in NYC...last time I was there (a
couple of months ago admittedly), they had a Jan Kerouac first edition,
as well as a first ed. of the paperback of Desolate Angels. If they dont
have those anymore, the folks there would probably be able to figure out
your dealer'sname, provided you give enough clues, since they deal with
most any of them in the area.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 11:14:02 -0400
Reply-To: "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: On the Road: drunkenness
Reply to message from jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM of Mon, 18 Aug
>
>Whiskey is expensive. Whiskey alcoholics have more money. By the time the
>alcoholic gets to wine he/she is usually close to the bottom of the
>economic ladder.
>
>j grant
This past March when I was writing my "senior seminar" paper on the Beats
(how I first found this list...) I decided that, as research, I had to get
a bottle of Thunderbird. It was research, pure research, I kept telling
my friends who rolled their eyes. So, at the state liquor store in
Aurora, Ohio, I asked the kind clerk if they had any in stock. He laughed
and said no, but "This stuff is the next best thing," and pointed to a
bottle of Wild Irish Rose. So I grabbed a bottle while the clerk continued
laughing and asked, "Is this a gag gift?" "Um, no, it's research," I replied.
Well, about a week later I found the real deal in the 24-hour Giant Eagle
in Ravenna. Granted, the greenish tint that I was never quite sure if it
belonged solely to the bottle or the liquor caught me off guard. But let's
just say that if you've only got $5 to spend on liquor, the stuff will do
the job. So then my professor found out about my research & shook his
head, remarking, "They still sell that stuff? My roommate back in college
drank an entire bottle of that one night, and later on he was puking green
bile..."
So maybe it all has to do with desperation....
Diane.
--
Diane M. Homza <---Professional Rebound Girl!
2 Years Experience; References Are Avaliable! ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
"I can't imagine how I ever thought my love might make a difference to him."
--Richard Powers, _The Gold Bug Variations_
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 23:33:48 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: On the Road: Chad King
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Does anyone have a character list that identifies Chad King who is in the
first part of On the Road? Also, when he gets to Denver, Sal stays with
a group of friends who seem to be on the outs with Cody and Irwin, does
anyone know the social particulars of the time and whether it was just a
personality conflict or did it have to do with views of literature, as
one of the guys Sal stays with seems to want to write like Hemingway.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 11:38:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dixon Edmiston <DIXCIN@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: On the Road: Young adult fiction???? and Chapter 1
Mitchell Smith wrote "Tired, tired,tired..."
Thank you, thank you, thank you....
Dixon
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 11:07:02 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ron Guest <rguest@SUNSET.BACKBONE.OLEMISS.EDU>
Subject: Bay Area/Beat-L Group
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I remember reading post about a Beat-l group trying to get together
in the Bay area. Did it happen? Any interesting news, ideas or
topics for discussion come out of that?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 13:05:31 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sara Brosnan <coffee@MAIL.WDN.COM>
Subject: Re: On the Road: Young adult fiction???? and Chapt
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> SHOCKING. They have a sticker on it as Young Adult Fiction.
> Now part of me drew back in horror at the thought of them doing this
> to
> a wonderful book
> but a sinister and subversive side of me likes very much that this
> book
> will be in the young adult section. i may even begin to roam the
> shelves of the fiction section and make other suggestions for Young
> Adult classifications of REAL authors.
>
This is my first post to this list. I'm 15 and going into my sophmore
year of highschool. OTR was on are recomended summer reading list and I
just finished reading it. I've read Howl and a bunch of other Ginsberg
poems along with some of Jack Kerouac's. I also read and loved a book
which was a collection of stuff from Woman Beats. As part of my
Humanities class next year we are going to be reading some Beat stuff I
think. Which I think is incredibly cool. I'm looking forward to
hearing everyone's insights on Beat literature, and adding some of my
own.
Sara
"I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by maddness, starving,
hysterical, naked."
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/1988
--------------19CC5EE50031385F5C96532E
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<HTML>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>SHOCKING. They have a sticker on it as Young
Adult Fiction.
<BR>Now part of me drew back in horror at the thought of them doing this
to
<BR>a wonderful book
<BR>but a sinister and subversive side of me likes very much that this
book
<BR>will be in the young adult section. i may even begin to roam
the
<BR>shelves of the fiction section and make other suggestions for Young
<BR>Adult classifications of REAL authors.
<BR> </BLOCKQUOTE>
This is my first post to this list. I'm 15 and going into my sophmore
year of highschool. OTR was on are recomended summer reading list
and I just finished reading it. I've read Howl and a bunch of other
Ginsberg poems along with some of Jack Kerouac's. I also read and
loved a book which was a collection of stuff from Woman Beats. As part
of my Humanities class next year we are going to be reading some Beat stuff
I think. Which I think is incredibly cool. I'm
looking forward to hearing everyone's insights on Beat literature, and
adding some of my own.
<P>Sara
<BR>"I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by maddness, starving,
hysterical, naked."
<BR><A
HREF="htttp://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/1988">http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/
Lofts/1988</A>
<BR>
<BR> </HTML>
--------------19CC5EE50031385F5C96532E--
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 14:04:16 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mitchell Smith <Praetor77@AOL.COM>
Subject: Ron W and White Fields Press
Does anyone know what has become of Ron Whitehead and why White Fields Press
went out of business? They had such an amazing line of publications, I can't
see why they gave up. The difficulties of being a small press I guess.
M Smith
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 12:18:32 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MATT HANNAN <MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>
Subject: Re: On the Road: Chad King
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Hal Chase and Ed White (Chad King and Tim Gray in On the Road) were
roommates and sometime college students in Denver. Who Kerouac stayed
with when he first arrived in Denver.
Ann Charters wrote in Kerouac - A Biography:
"Jack described the mood as "some kind of conspiracy," even "a war
with social overtones," because Neal was the son of a wino bum and
Chase and White were college students from respectable homes.
But Chase and his friends didn't stress the social differences when
they objected to Cassady. They told Jack they thought Neal was "a
moron and a fool" for rushing around Denver making love to any willing
girl:........"
love and lilies,
matt
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: On the Road: Chad King
Author: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> at Internet
Date: 8/19/97 11:33 PM
Does anyone have a character list that identifies Chad King who is in the
first part of On the Road? Also, when he gets to Denver, Sal stays with
a group of friends who seem to be on the outs with Cody and Irwin, does
anyone know the social particulars of the time and whether it was just a
personality conflict or did it have to do with views of literature, as
one of the guys Sal stays with seems to want to write like Hemingway.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 12:47:59 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization: Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: Ron W and White Fields Press
In-Reply-To: <970820140206_1359674217@emout11.mail.aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
m.smith
as far as i know they havent gone out of business - at least not as much
as ron has mentioned to me ( and you would think in his wild enthusiastci
nightmares of posts that ramble & update in a fury/flurry of wrds he would
have said something) i know that he is still planning some publishe in
heaven posters, organizing a reading for oct 9 in lousiville, KY, heading
to europe for readings, etc sept.10, working on research for new book on
l.ferlinghetti and working on new poetry as well as recently submitted
manuscript for final editing of _william s. burroughs: calling the toads_
so i dont think that whitefields press has bit the bucket yet.
have you heard otherwise?
yrs
derek
On Wed, 20 Aug 1997, Mitchell Smith wrote:
>
> Does anyone know what has become of Ron Whitehead and why White Fields Press
> went out of business? They had such an amazing line of publications, I can't
> see why they gave up. The difficulties of being a small press I guess.
>
> M Smith
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 15:37:18 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Lowell Celebrates Kerouac 1997
I was wondering if anyone else was planning on going to Lowell in October. May
be we can wear our Beat-l shirts and meet for drinks in the Worthen pub or some
thing.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 15:34:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: OTR -- chapter 1 still
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I'm moving along at a snail's pace. my apologies to the quick readers.
"The whole mad swirl of everything that was to come began then; it would
mix up all my friends and all I had left of my family in a big dust
cloud over the American Night." (p.8)
This sentence just hit me hard. I'd turned the page and there it was at
the top of the next . . . bam! . . . It seems to say so much of the tale
(as i recall from reading it long ago).
I guess it also says something about some decent ways of reading OTR.
It seems an easy way to fall amidst the whirlwind and madness and let
the story take you along. I have done this when i read it before.
Another is to be more of a twister watcher (albeit not a member of the
p.c. police) and observe the whirl of mad connections from a safer and
saner distance.
This time around i will follow the second path - the first is far too
likely to land me in a hospital.
This quotation as i said hit me hard in the middle of some synapse and
seems to say so much -- not just about chapter one -- but far far far
into the narrative.
"And this was really the way that my whole road experience began, and
the things that were to come are too fantastic not to tell." (p.9)
JK slides so smoothly out of the narrative and into the role of
storyteller...the author sliding into the story a bit. i've always
liked this quality. And the notion of "TOO FANTASTIC" along with the
"WHOLE MAD SWIRL" begin to create something in my brain which i missed
by falling too far into the book the last time i read it.
"Somewhere along the line I knew there'd be girls, visions, everything:
somewhere along the line the pearl would be handed to me." (p.11)
I wonder if the pearl was ever handed off. To JK, to us??? The
fantastic tale is certainly in store and it provides everything - but
perhaps not the pearl.
I'll lag along slowly pearl hunting.
david rhaesa
salina, Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 18:11:30 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Carl A Biancucci <carl@WORLD.STD.COM>
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%1997082015402243@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> from "Bill Gargan" at
Aug 20, 97 03:37:18 pm
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=>I'll definitely be going to Lowell in Oct.,and hope to meet
assorted Beat-L-sters.
> I was wondering if anyone else was planning on going to Lowell in October.
May
> be we can wear our Beat-l shirts and meet for drinks in the Worthen pub or
some
> thing.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 00:11:42 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Wittgenstein's dream (Re: Was Burroughs really a beat writer?)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.95.970813195003.25110D-100000@global.california .com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Michael et al. friends,
Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889-1951) was indeed a very tormented soul:
Ludwig every nite dreamed of cold & deep place into himself own
mind, lifting up a handkerchief & scared of worms &
creeping slimy beeings found there.
saluti,
Rinaldo.
At 20.04 13/08/97 -0700,
"Michael R. Brown" <foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM> wrote:
> "Wittgenstein said that if the universe is pre-recorded, the only thing
> not pre-recorded is those recordings themselves. In my work,
> the cut-ups and all, I attempt to get at the substance of the
> recordings."
> - William S. Burroughs
> (quoted from memory)
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 17:22:02 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Naked Lunch: Chapter 1, up to Benway
In-Reply-To: <33F6CC50.10CB@midusa.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Sun, 17 Aug 1997, RACE --- wrote:
> runner wrote:
> > Mixed this all up with my working
> > WSB ideas of the "big lie."
> >
> > http://www.electriciti.com/babu/images/Big_lie.html
> >
> > Douglas
> >
> > http://www.electriciti.com/babu/
>
> I'm not certain that "lie" is it. Unless the Lie is in only one angle
> on truth. It doesn't seem to me a particularly moralish notion as Lie
> sometimes suggests - what constitutes the Big Lie is factually accurate
> from a particular point of view, from a particular angle. What is
> exposed is the multiplicity of angles.
In _Painting & Guns_ Burroughs talks about points of view in painting (this
was actually an essay that appeared elsewhere, but I don't recall the name
right now). His paintings, he said (I'm paraphrasing), were made to be
viewed from "any angle." The idea was to destroy the notion of one point of
view, one framed image with one place to look at. But with a framed image
you still have notions of left, right, top, bottom etc., so I wonder if
anyone has done something like this -- it would seem that a good way to do
implement "multiplicity of angles" would be a circular shaped canvas, and a
framing device that does not rely on hanging the picture in any particular
direction. To see this implemented in music and in film, that would be
interesting perhaps.
I liked "green tit."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 18:34:34 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Ted W. Nagy" <tnagy@PASS.WAYNE.EDU>
Subject: unsubscribe
In-Reply-To: <33F76F7C.D8C@pacbell.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
unscribe beat-l
thankyou
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 18:51:19 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Rare books
Bill Morgan and Bob Rosenthal have issued a new catalog: The Beats/Edie
Kerouac Collection. They have a number of items on sale that once
belonged to Edie, many containing her signature and stamp. I found the
prices very reasonable. For a copy of the catalog or for more
information, contact Morgan & Rosenthal, P.O. BOX 1631, Stuyvesant
Station, New York, NY 10009
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:12:18 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: OTR -- chapter 1 still
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> RACE wrote:
> "Somewhere along the line I knew there'd be girls, visions, everything:
> somewhere along the line the pearl would be handed to me." (p.11)
>
> I wonder if the pearl was ever handed off. To JK, to us??? The
> fantastic tale is certainly in store and it provides everything - but
> perhaps not the pearl.
>
> I'll lag along slowly pearl hunting.
I think JK finds many pearls but never THE pearl. The flawed part is
probably that he kept searching for THE pearl instead of accepting the
many he found.
DC
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 20:58:49 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: On the Road: Young adult fiction???? and Chapter 1
In-Reply-To: <970819125241_655415373@emout12.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Tue, 19 Aug 1997, Dawn B. Sova wrote:
> I'd be curious if other Beat books are similarly classified. What a
> wonderful way to let the system open minds.
Yup. Several of the larger regional libraries near me have whole Beat
sections in their Young Adult area. Come to think of it, the only time I've
ever seen one of those newer (Penguin) Kerouac paperbacks in a library was
in the Young Adult area.
Despite the years of living with me & my Beat obsession, my little sister
(18) took to the Beats on her own just recently. She got Ginsberg's
_Cosmopolitan Greetings_ and Jack's _Book of Blues_ from the Young Adult
section at one of those said libraries.
m
email stutz@dsl.org Copyright (c) 1997 Michael Stutz; this information is
<http://dsl.org/m/> free and may be reproduced under GNU GPL, and as long
as this sentence remains; it comes with absolutely NO
WARRANTY; for details see <http://dsl.org/copyleft/>.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 20:23:39 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: OTR -- chapter 1 still
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Diane Carter wrote:
>
> > RACE wrote:
> > "Somewhere along the line I knew there'd be girls, visions, everything:
> > somewhere along the line the pearl would be handed to me." (p.11)
> >
> > I wonder if the pearl was ever handed off. To JK, to us??? The
> > fantastic tale is certainly in store and it provides everything - but
> > perhaps not the pearl.
> >
> > I'll lag along slowly pearl hunting.
>
> I think JK finds many pearls but never THE pearl. The flawed part is
> probably that he kept searching for THE pearl instead of accepting the
> many he found.
> DC
> DC
i'll try to look for "pearls" and not "THE" Pearl as i hunt along in
chapter two and onward. the great pearl hunt o o p s i means "A"
great pearl hunt . . .
. . . in a whirlwind of madness on route ...
of the AMERICAN NIGHT !
david rhaesa
salina, Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 21:28:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Bill Morgan <Ferlingh2@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Books from Edie Kerouac's library
We've just issued a catalogue of books from the library of Edie Kerouac that
might be of interest to collectors of Beat books. Featured are a large
number of Burroughs, Ginsberg and Kerouac titles, many of with annotations by
Edie. Anyone that would like a copy of the catalogue should e-mail me or
write to:
Morgan & Rosenthal
PO Box 1631
Stuyvesant Station
New York, NY 10009
Thanks, don't want to clutter up the list with advertisements, but thought
some of you might like to know about this.
We've also just published a beautiful book by Lawrence Ferlinghetti
illustrated by Larry Collins. It's a poem called "The Hopper House at Truro"
he wrote after visiting Edward Hopper's house on Cape Cod.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 21:29:58 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: next post
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If you do not want to read an experimental work and tribute to your OTR
readings, please do not read my next post. It is Georgetown to
Richland.
Any criticism is welcome, as long as it is not malicious. :-)
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 21:42:26 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Georgetown to Columbia ( A Travelogue)
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Georgetown to Columbia
(A Travelogue)
At 12:00 midnight, the Georgetown steel mill
Is belching smoke covering the sky
Demon-like redness.
At 12:00 noon, there is no smoke.
Georgetown on 17 Alt is cheap commercial construction.
On to Andrews, Panola, Burnt Gin,
Greelyville, Paxville, Pinewood.
Confederate navel battlejacks are unfurled,
Close to Mt. Zero Baptist Church
and the Pentacostal spirit filled flame.
Cotton, tobacco, strips of pine trees
Gobbled by giant beetles into trucks
To shed bark on your car.
Dekalb Corn signs like Detroit Red Wings,
Turn to Jesus or burn in HELL!
Columbia's free weekly.
At Coopers Country Grocery,
A bbq sandwich, crackling (low fat)
And Clearly Canadian.
A men's room with yellowed baseboards,
And ammonia eaten pipes.
Manchester, Wedgefield, knee high grass.
10th Anniversary Special Issue.
In Andrews the boys n the hood are
On the street.
Fierce, scary, no respect,
All is lost and gone, gone, gone.
(Probably real excited about workfare here.)
Yuhannah, Highway 261,
Thinking about youth
Imagining linear life.
And innocence.
Boiled peanuts are better for children than candy,
hulls flying out of window.
White cadillacs on blocks
White caddys on the road.
How could Antoine have known?
Tenants are people too!
Inside
The first issue.
Charles L. Griffin, III highway.
Right over Railroad Avenue.
Free Times.
Times are bought with a price.
What willing payment?
What extracted?
Jesus Saves.
Cross on the side,
Public boat ramps,
Pinewood hazard waste.
When will it arrive?
Hopkins, Lower Richland, Manchester.
Linear is not life.
Life is not linear.
Free entertainment,
But not linear,
And not necessairly pleasant.
Inside,
At the silo,
The chutes on the ground,
Corn scattered round.
Sumter F-15's thundering
I am in a vertical climb.
Is it possible to be
A dishonest polluter?
A white man barefoot,
Talks to the black woman.
The Confederate Navel Battlejack,
Flies down the block.
Like a river in fast forward,
I am flowing here,
Georgetown to Columbia.
Waste not want not.
I am here,
Nothing is there,
30 years in between.
Free times.
Columbia City Limits.
An All-American City.
Bessinger heats it
In a microwave.
And Garner's Ferry melts into the Devine.
Melt into the Divine.
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 19:52:13 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Bay Area/Beat-L Group
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Ron Guest wrote:
>
> I remember reading post about a Beat-l group trying to get together
> in the Bay area. Did it happen? Any interesting news, ideas or
> topics for discussion come out of that?
Ron,
The SF Bay Area Beatle Bash (First Annual or whatever) occured on August
2, the evening of WSB's death at my place in Redwood City. It was a
great party, lots of great discussion, although I cannot recall any
dominant theme that called out for list discussion. Just wonderful,
raging talk.
Heartily recommend such gatherings. A very unique event in that very
few people had met anyone there before except online. Made for a really
great exchange. Very little "what do you do for a living"--a lot more
about what folks had done, were doing, and were thinking. Some
nostalgia, to be sure, but a lot of what's happening now and some great
cross generational discussions.
Will be posting pictures soon. Stay tuned.
James Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 22:51:21 -0400
Reply-To: Greg Elwell <elwellg@voicenet.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Greg Elwell <elwellg@VOICENET.COM>
Subject: Re: On the Road: Chad King
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Off hand I believe that Chad King is Hal Chase. Is this correct? I'm not
totally sure who Hal Chase is either.
Greg Elwell
elwellg@voicenet.com || elwellgr@hotmail.com
<http://www.voicenet.com/~elwellg>
-----Original Message-----
From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wednesday, August 20, 1997 11:40 AM
Subject: On the Road: Chad King
>Does anyone have a character list that identifies Chad King who is in the
>first part of On the Road? Also, when he gets to Denver, Sal stays with
>a group of friends who seem to be on the outs with Cody and Irwin, does
>anyone know the social particulars of the time and whether it was just a
>personality conflict or did it have to do with views of literature, as
>one of the guys Sal stays with seems to want to write like Hemingway.
>DC
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 20:18:39 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: James William Marshall <dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: OTR -- chapter 1 still
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>"Somewhere along the line I knew there'd be girls, visions, everything:
>somewhere along the line the pearl would be handed to me." (p.11)
>
>I wonder if the pearl was ever handed off. To JK, to us??? The
>fantastic tale is certainly in store and it provides everything - but
>perhaps not the pearl.
>
>I'll lag along slowly pearl hunting.
>
>david rhaesa
>salina, Kansas
I wonder if the pearl in the quote transcribed by David is an allusion to
Steinbeck's novella _The Pearl_. I think that _The Pearl_ was published
about ten years before _On The Road_ so it's at least possible. If it is an
allusion, the pearl Kerouac expects will be handed to him carries some
negative connotations.
Just musing,
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 23:32:47 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Makar <dmakar@CCS.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: OTR -- chapter 1 still
In-Reply-To: <199708210318.UAA21431@freya.van.hookup.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Wed, 20 Aug 1997, James William Marshall wrote:
> >"Somewhere along the line I knew there'd be girls, visions, everything:
> >somewhere along the line the pearl would be handed to me." (p.11)
> >
> >I wonder if the pearl was ever handed off. To JK, to us??? The
> >fantastic tale is certainly in store and it provides everything - but
> >perhaps not the pearl.
> >
> >I'll lag along slowly pearl hunting.
> >
> >david rhaesa
> >salina, Kansas
>
> I wonder if the pearl in the quote transcribed by David is an allusion to
> Steinbeck's novella _The Pearl_. I think that _The Pearl_ was published
> about ten years before _On The Road_ so it's at least possible. If it is an
> allusion, the pearl Kerouac expects will be handed to him carries some
> negative connotations.
Wow James,
That's a pretty good idea, seriously. Perhaps there are more
litterary alusions that Jack slipped in secretly.
-Dave
David Makar <dmakar@ccs.neu.edu>
"I've never been too lucky, but I've never been too unlucky either"
-Mikrad Vada
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 21:11:37 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: OTR -- chapter 1 still
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 08:18 PM 8/20/97 -0700, you wrote:
>>"Somewhere along the line I knew there'd be girls, visions, everything:
>>somewhere along the line the pearl would be handed to me." (p.11)
>>
>>I wonder if the pearl was ever handed off. To JK, to us??? The
>>fantastic tale is certainly in store and it provides everything - but
>>perhaps not the pearl.
>>
>>I'll lag along slowly pearl hunting.
>>
>>david rhaesa
>>salina, Kansas
>
> I wonder if the pearl in the quote transcribed by David is an allusion to
>Steinbeck's novella _The Pearl_. I think that _The Pearl_ was published
>about ten years before _On The Road_ so it's at least possible. If it is an
>allusion, the pearl Kerouac expects will be handed to him carries some
>negative connotations.
>
> Just musing,
> James M.
>
>
Musing meself,
I'd think that the pearl (whatever "the pearl" actually is--kind of like IT)
probably more likley refers or comes from the pearl of great price.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 23:49:43 -0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jgh3ring <jgh3ring@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: how did you meet the beats.
Mime-Version: 1.0
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there is one aspect of the beat generation literature that it is not, and
that is timely.
Jason "donutman" Helfman
Three-Ring Creations
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 23:50:27 -0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jgh3ring <jgh3ring@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: how did you meet the beats.
Mime-Version: 1.0
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oops, thought you typed untimely, you typed untidy....and that it is not,
as well
Jason "donutman" Helfman
Three-Ring Creations
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 23:51:28 -0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jgh3ring <jgh3ring@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Bay Area/Beat-L Group
Mime-Version: 1.0
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bay area, meaning where specifically?
Jason "donutman" Helfman
Three-Ring Creations
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 23:54:36 -0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jgh3ring <jgh3ring@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: On the Road: Chad King
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does it matter who the character actually is, would it change your
perspective of the work, dull it numb it shit on it enlighten it...I
don't think their are many distict similarities in Kerouac of
Hemingway...they are writers and they write to write....
Jason "donutman" Helfman
Three-Ring Creations
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 14:46:38 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Moritz Rossbach <moro0000@STUD.UNI-SB.DE>
Subject: wsb's death/ recommendations for US trip
In-Reply-To: <199708210459.XAA03288@dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com>
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hi folks,
i just came back from vacation when i heard the sad news about wsb's
death, so i turned back to good ole beat-l as fast as possible. i am sure
there were a good deal of posts saying something nice about him, his life
and his works. too bad that in germany he was only worth a little note in
the papers. would anyone be so kind and summarize the talk on the beat-l
for me ? (Or is it possible to get the collected posts, bill ?)
i didn't read much burroughs so far, but what i read fascinated and
disgusted me at the same time (don't get me wrong), he was one of the few
writers who knew to wake emotions in me i never felt before. his radical
lifestyle, strange and somehow familiar attracts me like only jk's could
do.
but i guess it's also just the american lifestyle that attracts me ( the
ambivalent (or is it -lence?) of nature and city, literature and crap,
mcdonalds, barnes and nobles, cars, weapons, beaches, all that stuff i
love and hate. yeah, i know i got a pretty sarcastic cliche marlboro
country conception.....anyway, i am coming over and need some good tips
about what to do. i start in nyc, then pennsylvania and then i wanna do
the "driveaway"-thing wherever it may take me...new orleans and mexico are
possible aims. Lowell, ma. stands also on the list, maybe we could arrange
a little beat-l meeting at "lowell celebrates kerouac" ?!
any recommendations welcome
and please excuse me for going to far into this slightly off-topic theme,
i am just so excited :)
//
(o o)
--------oOO-(_)-OOo------sincerely
moritz rossbach
saarbruecken, germany
moro0000@stud.uni-sb.de
http://stud.uni-sb.de/~moro0000
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 09:42:54 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: Burroughs Tribute Site
This is a great place to read expressions of condolence and memorium for WSB:
<A HREF="http://sunsite.unc.edu/mal/MO/wsb/">a living, breathing and ever grow
ing William ...</A>
diane de rooy
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 09:46:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: Fwd: burroughs site
I'm never sure if I'm sending links right, so here's the path to that
Burroughs site again, just in case the first one didn't work.
diane
---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj: burroughs site
Date: 97-08-21 09:43:46 EDT
From: Ddrooy
To: Ddrooy
http://sunsite.unc.edu/mal/MO/wsb/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 08:05:20 -0400
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@C