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Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 20:15:09 -0800
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From: Ksenija Simic <xenias@EUNET.YU>
Subject: Re: Fwd: [too much coffee]
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i must say
that i can identify with the title of your message; i've been
having the
same problem lately.
> I
think this all ties into the feeling of being alive that I love to
> talk
about.
i may be
wrong, but i think that being alive is something that you
should
experience more and talk about less.
Being real to yourself, but this is very
>
dangerous because it opens you up. Makes you vulnerable. What do you
> think?
there is
nothing wrong with being vulnerable. i mean, you do get hurt,
but at
least you are what you are; you are honest to yourself, and you
know that
you are alive. if it opens you up, it opens you up to
experience.
and, as i understood, that's what you want, isn't it?
>
Experiences like the ones I have been having lately makes you stop and
> think.
don't stop.
don't think. just do it. use it: write!
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 20:27:46 -0800
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From: Ksenija Simic <xenias@EUNET.YU>
Subject: Re: Fwd: [Fwd: spicy beef burritos]
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I pondered
the expression "Life is
> what
you make it". Which for the most part I agree, but at the same time
> I
believe you are what life makes you. There are events that occur that
> are
beyond you control and as you deal with the situation you grow as a
>
person.
only at the
conscious level; things, if you noticed, always happen for a
reason. you
may call it destiny if you please, but you may also ascribe
it to
yourself. it is well known that if your attitude towards life is
positive,
so will be the things happening to you. and vice versa. life
IS what you
make of it.
Are you a mass of chemical reactions,
chromosomes, and
>
nuerotransmitters? That's a cold fact I can't bring myself to believe,
> of
course that is a part of who we are like it or not, but I like to
> think
that we play at least a small part in the shaping of our
>
personalities. I would have to describe the human animal as mystical,
> trying
not to sound to corny, a mixture of all these chemicals firing
> and
flowing and an unexplainable drive and consciousness.
>
that's
what, more or less, modern physics says. i suggest that you find
and read
'the dancing wu-li masters' (i think i spelled it right) by
gary zukav
(not sure about the first name).
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 20:32:01 -0800
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From: Ksenija Simic <xenias@EUNET.YU>
Subject: Re: [too much coffee]
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and
besides, the people who
> are
unhappy, perhaps they would not be this way if not for the rest of society
> around
them....
do you
really think so?
this
>
"left out" feeling causes them to have a sense of brooding depression
and
>
loneliness they "may or may not" otherwise feel if love and
relationships did
> not
play such a huge, idealistic or otherwise, role in our society...
>
but, what
if not love? not in the narrowest, romantic sense. from a
certain
point of view, everything can be considered love.
perhaps if
we were all to give in to our
>
innermost desires, this world would be even more fucked up than it is
>
already.....
????
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 20:36:29 -0800
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From: Ksenija Simic <xenias@EUNET.YU>
Subject: Re: I apologize
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>
perhaps it is something explainable.......who are we to suggest we know all
> the
answers concerning our drives and consciousnesses?
as i look
at it, there is no right answer to any question. even
mathematics
has doubts about things that seem obvious. so, we can create
a theory,
about our consciousness, or anything else for that matter, and
if it works
(if it's coherent, as scientists say) it is good enough.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 15:59:41 -0500
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From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac pieces?
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At 12:10 PM
12/27/97 EST, john j dorfner wrote:
>the two
pieces that you were asking about are included
>in
Kerouac's "Good Blonde & Others"...
Thanx, one
of the books that are on loan. . .
Looked
familiar, but couldn't place them.
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 16:12:34 -0500
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From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: The Politically correct days of Christmas
(fwd)
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I thought
someone might get a chuckle out of
this. . .
>----------
Forwarded message ----------
>Date:
Fri, 26 Dec 1997 10:10:12 -0500 (EST)
>To: Michael
Cakebread <cake0570@mach1.wlu.ca>
>Subject:
The Politically correct days of Christmas (fwd)
>The
"Politically Correct" Days of Christmas...
>----------------------------------------------
>On the
12th day of the Eurocentrically imposed
>midwinter
festival, my Significant Other in a
>consenting
adult, monogamous relationship gave to
>me:
>
>TWELVE
males reclaiming their inner warrior
>through
ritual drumming,
>ELEVEN
pipers piping (plus the 18-member pit orchestra
>made up
of members in good standing of the Musicians
>Equity
Union as called for in their union contract
>even
though they will not be asked to play a note),
>TEN
melanin deprived testosterone-poisoned scions
>of the
patriarchal ruling class system leaping,
>NINE
persons engaged in rhythmic self-expression,
>EIGHT
economically disadvantaged female persons stealing >milk-products
from
enslaved Bovine-Americans,
>SEVEN
endangered swans swimming on federally
>protected
wetlands,
>SIX
enslaved Fowl-Americans producing stolen
>non-human
animal products,
>FIVE
golden symbols of culturally sanctioned enforced
>domestic
incarceration,
>(NOTE:
after members of the Animal Liberation Front
>threatened
to throw red paint at my computer, the
>calling
birds, French hens and partridge have been
>reintroduced
to their native habitat. To avoid further
>Animal-American
enslavement, the remaining gift
>package
has been revised.)
>FOUR
hours of recorded whale songs
>THREE
deconstructionist poets
>TWO
Sierra Club calendars printed on recycled processed
>tree
carcasses
>and...
>ONE
Spotted Owl activist chained to an old-growth pear
>tree.
>Merry
Christmas Happy Chanukah. Good Kwanzaa.
>Blessed
Yule. Oh, heck! Happy Holidays!!!!
(unless
>otherwise
prohibited by law) *
>
>*Unless,
of course, you are suffering from Seasonally
>Affected
Disorder (SAD). If this be the case, please
>substitute
this gratuitous call for celebration with
>suggestion
that you have a thoroughly adequate day.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 13:33:41 PST
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From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: HAPPY BIRTHDAY SHERRI!
Content-Type:
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BULLETIN:
We are
planning to sing the first round of Happy Birthdays to Sherri at
Tosca's,
across the street from City Lights this evening at 8:00 p.m.
After
that you
might find us at City Lights or Vesuvios, eating Chinese food,
roaming
about in the neighborhood, then we are off to dance somewhere.
Sweet
marie will
be there, Ann Marie (Anne Murphy) will be there, James
Stauffer
and myself
and any one of you who can join us. We hope some of you can
make it.
Sorry to be so late.
Happy
Birthday Sherri!!
leon
______________________________________________________
Get Your
Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 16:10:13 -0500
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From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: HAPPY BIRTHDAY SHERRI!
In-Reply-To:
<19971227213342.11972.qmail@hotmail.com>
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If you pop
across the street to Prairie Lights tell Paul Joe and Shar Grant
send him
our best.
How
wonderful that you folks are in Iowa City. Wish I were able to drive
over from
Madison.
j grant
>BULLETIN:
>
>We are
planning to sing the first round of Happy Birthdays to Sherri at
>Tosca's,
across the street from City Lights this evening at 8:00 p.m.
>After
that you might find us at City Lights or Vesuvios, eating Chinese food,
>roaming
about in the neighborhood, then we are off to dance somewhere.
>Sweet
marie will be there, Ann Marie (Anne Murphy) will be there, James
>Stauffer
and myself and any one of you who can join us. We hope some of
>you can
>make
it. Sorry to be so late.
>
>Happy
Birthday Sherri!!
>
>leon
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 14:19:37 -0800
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From: sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: HAPPY BIRTHDAY SHERRI!
Joe, we're
in San Francisco. Leon said City Lights
Books. any of you Bay
Area beats
who would like to meet Marie whois visiting us or just want an
excuse to
party and touch a couple of Beat haunts, please join us. we'll
meet at
Cafe Tosca for a drink, then hang at Vesuvio, then if we're hungry
probably
grab some cheap pasta at Pasta Pomodoro, then off to find some
dancing (will
be checking the Guardian this afternoon, suggestions welcome).
please
e-mail me if you'll be joining us so we'll know to hang in one place
til you get
there.
and to
everyone - hope you had a wonderful holiday and a most beatific New
Year to you
all.
ciao,
sherri
-----Original
Message-----
From: jo
grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date:
Saturday, December 27, 1997 2:07 PM
Subject:
Re: HAPPY BIRTHDAY SHERRI!
>If you
pop across the street to Prairie Lights tell Paul Joe and Shar Grant
>send
him our best.
>
>How
wonderful that you folks are in Iowa City. Wish I were able to drive
>over
from Madison.
>
>j grant
>
>
>>BULLETIN:
>>
>>We
are planning to sing the first round of Happy Birthdays to Sherri at
>>Tosca's,
across the street from City Lights this evening at 8:00 p.m.
>>After
that you might find us at City Lights or Vesuvios, eating Chinese
food,
>>roaming
about in the neighborhood, then we are off to dance somewhere.
>>Sweet
marie will be there, Ann Marie (Anne Murphy) will be there, James
>>Stauffer
and myself and any one of you who can join us. We hope some of
>>you
can
>>make
it. Sorry to be so late.
>>
>>Happy
Birthday Sherri!!
>>
>>leon
>
>
>
> HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
> Details on-line at
>
http://www.bookzen.com
> 625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 14:50:23 -0800
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From: "David C. Breithaupt"
<moondog@WELL.COM>
Subject: Re: twister (fwd)
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----------
Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed,
24 Dec 1997 10:47:18 -0800
From: Kesey
and/or Babbs <kenk@efn.org>
To:
"David C. Breithaupt" <moondog@well.com>
Subject:
Re: twister
It's two
days before Christmas
And all
through the hoose
Everything's
stirring
Including
the moose.
The
chocolate bubbling
On the
stove over there
Soon to be
applied
To the
fattening eclair.
Remember
this phrase
And attempt
to fly it:
Eat drink and
make merry
For
tomorrow you may diet.
The elves
jumped for joy
And joy
jumped out the window
Gets too
hot in the kitchen
Plunk yer
butt down in the snow.
There's
nothing every season
You can
think of that's worse
Than guys
like me
Attempting
to make verse.
So just
knock your selfs out
Don't pay
no attention to me
Do whatever
you want
With verve,
grace and excess of glee.
Happy
Holidays and bodacious New Year.
k&k
http://www.intrepidtrips.com
__________
_/ |
|_ FURTHER _|
O O
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 00:06:23 +0100
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Permutation poems
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SGI.3.96.971227210531.18998A-100000@komma.fddi2.fu-be
rlin.de>
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At 21.25
27/12/97 +0100, Florian Cramer wrote:
>Dear
all,
>
>my
apologies if my request sounds naive, since I am not really familiar
>with
the beat poetry tradition. I am in the midst of writing an M.A.
>thesis
about combinatory poetry from the 17th to the 20th century, and it
>took me
long until I stumbled over information that Brion Gysin wrote
>"permutation
poems" around 1960. This is highly interesting for me, since
>it was
the same time when Raymond Queneau wrote his permuting "100.000
>Billion
Poems" and when the information theorist Abraham A. Moles
>published
his "Manifesto of Permutation Art". You might also be interested
>to hear
that the "fold-in" method was prototyped in a novel by Marc
>Saporta
which appeared in the early 1960s. It seems like the mutual
>influences
on the development of combinatory/permutational literature in
>early
1960s France (where I guess Gysin was living at that time) still
>needs
to be researched, in case I'm not telling you old stories here.
>
>I took
me quite long to find out about Gysin's "permutation poems" since
>Gysin
and Burroughs are not quite considered high cultural/canonical
>writers
in European academia, so that even such comprehensive accounts of
>permutational
poetry as Ulrich Ernst's "Permutation als Prinzip in der
>Lyrik"
("Permutation as a principle in poetry", published in: Poetica,
>no.24,
1992) don't mention Gysin's experiments.
>
>Hence
my question: Are Gysin's "permutation poems" published in books? Are
>there
any essays or commentaries about them? In the Web, I found
>information
that Gysin created these poems with the help of a computer;
>however,
the Web page didn't mention the source of this information, so
>I'm a
bit suspicious. Did Gysin make any statements about his
>permutational
poetry in interviews? ... It seems really difficult
>researching
this, since most of Gysin's books are small press and out of
>print,
and I guess that the majority of Gysin criticism has been published
>in the
underground press.
>
>Any
help in this matter is really appreciated!
>
>Florian
>
dear
Florian.
u are right
Brion Gysin really made use of the computer
with the
help of Ian Sommerville, the performance
"The Permuted Poems of Bryon Gysin" was aired by the
BBC but the audience rate was very low (the 2th worst score in
the history of the BBC).
[Nothing Here Now But The Recordings (1959-1980)
LP IR 0016 ''Industrial Records'' Rough Trade,
137 Blenheim Crescent, London W11, England.]
& it's possible that some tapes are in the
"Burroughs Communication Center" at Lawrence,Kansas.
i hope this help & other friends maybe can add
further info,
r.
---
Brion Gysin interviewed:
Devo confessare che i documenti piu' avventurosi sono stati
realizzati con vetusti Revere e con scatoline giapponesi da
100 $ con cui facevamo gli stupidi, William, Ian Sommerville
ed io. Affrofittai delle sovvenzioni BBC per realizzare con
loro una serie di poesie sonore. Tecnicamente non si discutono
,certo. In principio m'era parso di capire che avrei avuto a
disposizione una settimana; salto' fuori poi che erano tre
giorni soltanto, cosi' nella fretta alla fine cominciai a
spezzettare un testo parlato- mi pare fosse la spiegazione di
come funziona il lavoro in cut-up, Cut-ups Self Explained- e
lo feci passare parecchie volte nella strumentazione elettronica.
Approdai sul nastro a parole del tutto nuove, mai pronunciate
scientemente da me e da altri. L'esperimento fu subito ritirato
perche'... il tempo era finito e Loro erano un po' alterati,
anzi decisamente malpresi per i risultati che saltavano fuori
dagli altoparlanti; non furono poco contenti di darci un taglio.
"Beh, che si aspettavano? Un coro di cherubini con le imbeccate
sulla Borsa?"--William Burroughs.
"The Permutated Poems of Brion Gysin" (riversato al computer da
Ian Sommerville) fu trasmesso dalla BBC, per la produzione di
Douglas Cleverson.(Il secondo peggior indice di gradimento fatto
registrare). sono reperibili alcuni dei primi esperimenti di
Cut-Up su nastro: Nothing Here Now But The Recordings (1959-1980)
LP IR 0016 reperibile nel catalogo ''Industrial Records'' Rough
Trade, 137 Blenheim Crescent, London W11, England.
---
saluti
Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 23:35:49 +0100
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: 11 23 magic numbers
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A32.3.93.971226111445.36916C-100000@srv1.freenet.calg
ary.ab.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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MagenDror@aol.com writes:
>>i ask you, for my vanity, if the 23
>Both, I think. I came across numerous 23 synchronicities before being made
>aware of the Burroughs connexion, so the fact that WSB was also aware of
>these is just further synchronicity. Eleven . . . also a prime number, but
>not as interesting from a kabbalistic perspective as 23. And see Psalm 23 .
Dear Luther and others,
the William S. Burrough's interest for the number 23
as prime number is anticipated by the italian futuristic
performer Filippo Tommaso Marinetti (1876-1944). Marinetti
has for him the magic numer 11 (eleven).
saluti,
Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 18:08:02 -0500
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From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: HAPPY BIRTHDAY SHERRI!
In-Reply-To: <04e2e0721221bc7UPIMSSMTPUSR03@email.msn.com>
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>Joe, we're in San Francisco.
Of course. I saw City Lights, but was thinking Prairie Lights. Got carried
away.
Happy everything out there.
j grant
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=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 00:25:25 EST
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From: Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: [Fwd: ]
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In a message dated 97-12-27 13:22:14 EST, you write:
<< hey...as Mark Twain said..."never trust a man that can't spell a word 3
ways..."
spelling is for editors...not for writers.
>>
very very true......point taken......
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 00:34:10 EST
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From: Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>
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Subject: Re: [too much coffee]
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In a message dated 97-12-27 15:39:55 EST, you write:
<< and besides, the people who
> are unhappy, perhaps they would not be this way if not for the rest of
society
> around them....
do you really think so?
~~~it's only a theory....not one i particularly hold too much stock in, but
nonetheless, a suggestion i have considered....i have seen a lot of people who
react according to the rest of the pack, whether it be with them or against
them....and i have seen friends and family who become seriously ill as a
result of wanting too hard to be accepted by a society they believe has set
standards of what a person should be.....but by no means would i generalize
this statement for everyone....
this
> "left out" feeling causes them to have a sense of brooding depression and
> loneliness they "may or may not" otherwise feel if love and relationships
did
> not play such a huge, idealistic or otherwise, role in our society...
>
but, what if not love? not in the narrowest, romantic sense. from a
certain point of view, everything can be considered love.
~~~from a certain point of view.....sorta like the statement i suppose, "some
things done out of love are beyond good and evil".....but if you can say that
everything can be considered love from one perspective, you could easily turn
it around, and say everything is done out of selfishness
perhaps if we were all to give in to our
> innermost desires, this world would be even more fucked up than it is
> already.....
????
~~~meaning, if we stopped limiting ourselves.....(which some, not all of us
do)....stop checking out innermost selves at the door, in the name or morality
or all else, perhaps, perhaps our society or our world would be more
anarchist...and not necessarily in a political or negative fashion....perhaps
more love would be shown, you know the facade(if it exists) of machoism would
be let down...more emotions could be revealed.....or perhaps we would have a
million more neal cassadys in the world....or perhaps not....you never
know.....if every man and woman on this planet for one day, unlocked these
man-made doors constructed by physical boundaries, religion, morality,
etc......and just went above it all, transcendance, whatever you would like to
call it......and just did absolutely what they wanted to, then we would have a
truly curious and mysterious and beautifully odd world.....
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 10:54:04 +0100
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: a poem by Gary Snyder.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.3.96.971227210531.18998A-100000@komma.fddi2.fu-be
rlin.de>
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How Poetry Comes to Me by Gary Snyder
It comes blundering over the
Boulders at night, it stays
Frightened outside the
Range of my campfire
I go to meet it at the
Edge of the light
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 14:55:27 -0600
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From: Irving Leif <ileif@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: New Kerouac Translations
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Kerouac's reputation and acceptance as an important writer continues to
spread around the world. He is now been translated into two additional
languages - Turkish and Hebrew.
The books are:
Yolda (On The Road) published in Istanbul by Kiyi
ha-Hatranim (The Subterraneans) published in Tel Aviv by Geranim
Irving Leif
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 05:38:49 -0500
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From: Glenn Cooper <coopergw@MPX.COM.AU>
Subject: Personal to Michael Nally
In-Reply-To: <34A5D641.45F5@eunet.yu>
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Michael,
I received your post about "Sunlight Dies With The Roses" but my mail to
you is bouncing. Any ideas?
Glenn C.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 06:56:54 -0700
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From: Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: Satori in Phoenix
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This thread involves the peculiarities of existence finishing Maggie
Cassidy and beginning Satori in Paris while spending the holidays in
Phoenix.
OR
It's just a way of saying hello to friends around here and there.
The flight here i was reading Maggie C. but two rows back some young kid
was reading the compleat works of Rimbaud and coincidentally or not the
guy sitting next to him went into some sort of overdose coma and came
out to try and light a cigarette (which i could definitely relate to)
and was stopped and then passed out and then the call for medical folks
and gadgets and junk connected to him which pretty much meant that the
rest of us were not only excluded from our nicotine doses but also had
to wait extra extra long to get our caffeine infusions. But it was a
rather decent distraction.
So ---- sitting in Mesa (not actually IN Phoenix --- but close to it)
and I finally says to myself i need an infusion of Beat-L mania and so
while listening to Clapton UnPlugged nobody knows you when you're down
and out (in Paris or London or Phoenix) I hit a few buttons and must've
hit Some of the right ones cuz i'm here again ((((at least i think i
am)))))
so did i miss anything while i was incommunicado?
david rhaesa (race)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:04:53 +0100
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: New Kerouac Translations
In-Reply-To: <199712282055.OAA14973@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com>
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Buona giornata a tutti,
at the right moment, in Italy is out (september 97)
an abridged edition of "Jack Kerouac-Selected Letters 1040-1959)"
(c) 1995 the Estate of stella Kerouac, John Sampas,
Literary Representative. Notes copyright (c) Ann Charters,1995
the italian named Jack Kerouac "Letter dalla Beat Generation",
translated by Silvia Piraccini,
published by Arnoldo Mondadori Editore S.p.A. Milano
(a Silvio Berlusconi's publishing house).
Luckily the book is a paperback edition (lire italiane 9000
value approximately 3 $).
Info on Internet
http://www.mondadori.com/libri
saluti,
Rinaldo.
--------
At 14.55 28/12/97 -0600, Irving Leif <ileif@IX.NETCOM.COM> wrote:
>Kerouac's reputation and acceptance as an important writer continues to
>spread around the world. He is now been translated into two additional
>languages - Turkish and Hebrew.
>
>The books are:
>
>Yolda (On The Road) published in Istanbul by Kiyi
>
>ha-Hatranim (The Subterraneans) published in Tel Aviv by Geranim
>
>
>Irving Leif
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 10:12:11 -0600
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Satori in Phoenix
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Jim Rhaesa wrote:
>
> This thread involves the peculiarities of existence finishing Maggie
> Cassidy and beginning Satori in Paris while spending the holidays in
> Phoenix.
>
> OR
>
> It's just a way of saying hello to friends around here and there.
>
yes you did, great to hear fromyou, happy monday. I was almost silehnt
patricia
>
> so did i miss anything while i was incommunicado?
>
> david rhaesa (race)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 01:38:29 -0800
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From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Satori in Phoenix
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> RACE wrote:
>
> This thread involves the peculiarities of existence finishing Maggie
> Cassidy and beginning Satori in Paris while spending the holidays in
> Phoenix.
It has been very quiet here on the beat-l. What did Maggie Cassidy have
to say to you about the peculiarities of existence?
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 18:08:40 +0100
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Satori in Phoenix
In-Reply-To: <34A7CBDB.E22@sunflower.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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patricia wrote:
>Jim Rhaesa wrote:
>>
>> This thread involves the peculiarities of existence finishing Maggie
>> Cassidy and beginning Satori in Paris while spending the holidays in
>> Phoenix.
>>
>> OR
>>
>> It's just a way of saying hello to friends around here and there.
>>
>yes you did, great to hear fromyou, happy monday. I was almost silehnt
>patricia
>>
>> so did i miss anything while i was incommunicado?
>>
>> david rhaesa (race)
>
-
-
-
-
-odetosatori- -yr white pointed shoes-
just now the- -you are eating spaghetti
take away re- in the midnite on the boat
staurant chi- -yr wind yr wind
nese in fron- -the sky u never NEVER u'll see
t of my wind- -an old car
ow has light- -a new car
on red lante- -
rns swaying - -
cuz the wind- -
29 december - -poesy is over for u
after noon m- -
y mind is my- -a prayer
body my brai- -how many diabetics on
n an electri- the autumnal parking lot
c transforme- one hundred!
r blades of - -electric sound in yr
copper wrapp- mind my brother
ed day after- -every day so tiny
day after da- -
y cut! born!- -no one scream
dead! i'm li- -electric stream
stening the - -7 seven days
radio & look- -
ing at the s- -
ky a bit fog- .
gy the-
day is-
hardly-
over t-
he rad-
io tel-
ls who-
i am w-
hooo i-
am -
da-
y -
af-
te-
r -
da-
y -
-
-
-
cos'altro si puo' dire alla fine di una
giornata invernale? le ombre della nott
e stanno gia' avvicinandosi, cos'e' un
satori a parigi, a londra, a phoenix, o
qui a mestre the cyber venicesque other
side of the moon world?
-
-
-
r
i
n
a
l
d
o
-
-
-
beat heart beat heart beat heart beat heart
-
-
-
SCREEEEEEEAMM! ode to-day ODE TO-DAY!
-
-
THE
E L E C T R I C
T R A N S F O R M E R
-
-
-
is well working in the factory
-
-
-
a tribute to d.r.
-
-
-
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 12:03:42 -0600
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Satori in Phoenix
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on a chill wind day,
mourning as a way to weave mortality and time.
i hear rinaldos voice,
beacon to encourage my provincial dance
on
cosmopolition streets.
poems drip from his nose,
odes from his toes,
prose swim in his irises
his tom sawyer voice
yelling come jump in the river
listen to this.
tribute to rinaldo
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 10:27:05 PST
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From: marie countyman <mcountyman@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: hello from california
Content-Type: text/plain
hey there all beat-ls
i haven't had the time to write much, but would like to tell you all
happy new year and a damned fine good one it should all be! leon has
been showing me the sights, and sherri's birthday party atnorth beach
was a blast, the redwoods, the salvation army thrift store where i
bought my dr sax raincoat, all so much happening. even went on my first
roller coaster ride in my life ALONE!!!
i'm journaling like mad, hoping in a few weeeks after return to have
some interesting things to write. for now, old fashioned fountain pen
and notebook loggin all thoughts and adventures.
mc
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 12:41:17 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Irving Leif <ileif@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: New Kerouac Translations
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Rinaldo,
Thank you greatly for this info and for being so kind to bring it to my
attention. This is important for my ongoing work on a new bibliography.
Irving
At 04:04 PM 12/29/97 +0100, you wrote:
>Buona giornata a tutti,
>
>at the right moment, in Italy is out (september 97)
>an abridged edition of "Jack Kerouac-Selected Letters 1040-1959)"
>(c) 1995 the Estate of stella Kerouac, John Sampas,
>Literary Representative. Notes copyright (c) Ann Charters,1995
>
>the italian named Jack Kerouac "Letter dalla Beat Generation",
>translated by Silvia Piraccini,
>published by Arnoldo Mondadori Editore S.p.A. Milano
>(a Silvio Berlusconi's publishing house).
>Luckily the book is a paperback edition (lire italiane 9000
>value approximately 3 $).
>Info on Internet
>http://www.mondadori.com/libri
>
>saluti,
>Rinaldo.
>--------
>At 14.55 28/12/97 -0600, Irving Leif <ileif@IX.NETCOM.COM> wrote:
>>Kerouac's reputation and acceptance as an important writer continues to
>>spread around the world. He is now been translated into two additional
>>languages - Turkish and Hebrew.
>>
>>The books are:
>>
>>Yolda (On The Road) published in Istanbul by Kiyi
>>
>>ha-Hatranim (The Subterraneans) published in Tel Aviv by Geranim
>>
>>
>>Irving Leif
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:23:53 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: GTL1951 <GTL1951@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Satori in Phoenix
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Hey Race
Sounds like one of my flights! Hope the satori was good. Gotta
take em where you find em!
GT
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:36:01 -0700
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: Re: Satori in Phoenix
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GTL1951 wrote:
> Hey Race
> Sounds like one of my flights! Hope the satori was good. Gotta
> take em where you find em!
> GT
the flight crew was damn amusing. so worried about liability that they're
hopping around like headless chickens.
Phoenix is a warm and wonderful place where cactus grow three thousand feet in
the air.
Satori is always good.
david rhaesa
in mesa
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:37:23 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: Re: hello from california
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marie countyman wrote:
> hey there all beat-ls
> the salvation army thrift store where i
> bought my dr sax raincoat,
HEY! I think that's my missing Raincoat!!!
david rhaesa
in mesa
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:38:35 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: Re: Satori in Phoenix
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Patricia Elliott wrote:
> his tom sawyer voice
> yelling come jump in the river
> listen to this.
i'll be huck and we can go to our funerals together
david rhaesa
in mesa
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:40:19 -0700
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: Re: Satori in Phoenix
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> patricia wrote:
> >Jim Rhaesa wrote:
> >>
> >> This thread involves the peculiarities of existence finishing Maggie
> >> Cassidy and beginning Satori in Paris while spending the holidays in
> >> Phoenix.
> >>
> >> OR
> >>
> >> It's just a way of saying hello to friends around here and there.
> >>
> >yes you did, great to hear fromyou, happy monday. I was almost silehnt
> >patricia
> >>
> >> so did i miss anything while i was incommunicado?
> >>
> >> david rhaesa (race)
> >
> -
> -
> -
> -
> -odetosatori- -yr white pointed shoes-
> just now the- -you are eating spaghetti
> take away re- in the midnite on the boat
> staurant chi- -yr wind yr wind
> nese in fron- -the sky u never NEVER u'll see
> t of my wind- -an old car
> ow has light- -a new car
> on red lante- -
> rns swaying - -
> cuz the wind- -
> 29 december - -poesy is over for u
> after noon m- -
> y mind is my- -a prayer
> body my brai- -how many diabetics on
> n an electri- the autumnal parking lot
> c transforme- one hundred!
> r blades of - -electric sound in yr
> copper wrapp- mind my brother
> ed day after- -every day so tiny
> day after da- -
> y cut! born!- -no one scream
> dead! i'm li- -electric stream
> stening the - -7 seven days
> radio & look- -
> ing at the s- -
> ky a bit fog- .
> gy the-
> day is-
> hardly-
> over t-
> he rad-
> io tel-
> ls who-
> i am w-
> hooo i-
> am -
> da-
> y -
> af-
> te-
> r -
> da-
> y -
> -
> -
> -
> cos'altro si puo' dire alla fine di una
> giornata invernale? le ombre della nott
> e stanno gia' avvicinandosi, cos'e' un
> satori a parigi, a londra, a phoenix, o
> qui a mestre the cyber venicesque other
> side of the moon world?
> -
> -
> -
> r
> i
> n
> a
> l
> d
> o
> -
> -
> -
> beat heart beat heart beat heart beat heart
> -
> -
> -
> SCREEEEEEEAMM! ode to-day ODE TO-DAY!
> -
> -
> THE
> E L E C T R I C
> T R A N S F O R M E R
> -
> -
> -
> is well working in the factory
> -
> -
> -
> a tribute to d.r.
> -
> -
> -
wonderfulbeautifulloveitmagnificantspinsmysynapsesgottaloveyourwordskeepontyping
gogogo
david rhaesa
in mesa
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 18:40:47 EST
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aeronwytru <Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Satori in Phoenix
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
i'm lost. what exactly is satori that it's so great? i thought it was just a
book or something. anyone care to enlighten me?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:41:42 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: Re: Satori in Phoenix
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
nothing and nobody in life are a sure thing.
david rhaesa
in mesa
Diane Carter wrote:
> > RACE wrote:
> >
> > This thread involves the peculiarities of existence finishing Maggie
> > Cassidy and beginning Satori in Paris while spending the holidays in
> > Phoenix.
>
> It has been very quiet here on the beat-l. What did Maggie Cassidy have
> to say to you about the peculiarities of existence?
> DC
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 18:44:20 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Glenn Cooper <coopergw@MPX.COM.AU>
Subject: Personal to Michael Nally
In-Reply-To: <8b5765b3.34a53fdf@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Michael,
Neither of your email addresses work. Keep bouncing.
Yes, go ahead, use "Sunlight Dies With The Roses" as you wish. I look
forward to seeing the end result. Checked out your site. Looks like it'll
be a good one.
Glenn.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 21:53:59 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Burgwine <Burgwine@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: No Subject
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
If at all possible, could you subscribe me to your mailing list?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 21:49:58 -0700
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: Re: Satori in Phoenix
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Aeronwytru wrote:
> i'm lost. what exactly is satori that it's so great? i thought it was just a
> book or something. anyone care to enlighten me?
"Somewhere during my ten days in Paris (AND Brittany) [and could easily have
been Phoenix AND Mesa] I received an illumination of some kind that seems to've
changed me again, towards what I suppose'll be my pattern for another seven
years or more: a SATORI: the Japanese word for 'sudden illumination,' 'sudden
awakening' or simply 'kick in the eye.' Whatever, something DID happen and in
my first reveries after the trip and I'm back home regrouping ...." Jack
Kerouac, Satori in Paris, p.1
Can't enlighten ya further - better to find out for yerself. Experience your
own satori and tell us all how it smelled!
So does anyone have insight on the difference between satori as used here and
epiphany as used elsewhere?
david
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 21:19:59 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Satori in Phoenix
in my Oxford Dictionary epiphany involves the appearance of a god or
demi-god. satori either doesn't involve any gods or may, but doesn't have
to. depends on which form of Buddhism, i suppose.
ciao, sherri
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Monday, December 29, 1997 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: Satori in Phoenix
>Aeronwytru wrote:
>
>> i'm lost. what exactly is satori that it's so great? i thought it was
just a
>> book or something. anyone care to enlighten me?
>
>"Somewhere during my ten days in Paris (AND Brittany) [and could easily
have
>been Phoenix AND Mesa] I received an illumination of some kind that seems
to've
>changed me again, towards what I suppose'll be my pattern for another seven
>years or more: a SATORI: the Japanese word for 'sudden illumination,'
'sudden
>awakening' or simply 'kick in the eye.' Whatever, something DID happen and
in
>my first reveries after the trip and I'm back home regrouping ...." Jack
>Kerouac, Satori in Paris, p.1
>
>Can't enlighten ya further - better to find out for yerself. Experience
your
>own satori and tell us all how it smelled!
>
>So does anyone have insight on the difference between satori as used here
and
>epiphany as used elsewhere?
>
>david
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 21:37:20 -0800
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From: Mary Maconnell <MMACONNELL@MAIL.EWU.EDU>
Subject: New/"Kerouac: The Essence of Jack"
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Hi. I'm new to the list and probably shouldn't be posting until I sit and
read letters for a few days but I'm posting nonetheless. I've read Jack
and loved him but what spurred me to join a mailing list was this show I
caught in Seattle: "Kerouac: The Essence of Jack." Probably some of you
have seen it and know what I'm talking about. Vincent Balestri performs
this one-man show where he plays Jack and *IS* Jack. I'm not going to
be unpurposefully redundant in telling you all about it because it's
probably already been discussed here. But I was amazed and mesmerized
and it was the best live theater thing I have ever seen in my life.
So I'm glad there's a mailing list for this and so far I've read really
great things and I'm looking forward to reading even more. :)
Mary
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 22:35:18 +0000
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
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From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Satori in Phoenix
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> Race wrote:
>
> so did i miss anything while i was incommunicado?
>
> David
Missed almost nothing as far as I can tell--but then I was incommunicado for
a long time to. Good to have you back, and with a recent satori--even
better. Just make sure you eat the right cactus!
James
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 02:45:12 EST
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From: VegasDaddy <VegasDaddy@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Satori in Phoenix
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"Beat Zen" is something that we all I think need to watch out for. It's
wonderful that Kerouac and Gary Snyder and Alan Watts and all those brilliant
poetic angels with Western origins developed a penchant for Buddhism,
especially Zen..but I think there was a huge gap inherent in this Beat Zen
(especially in Kerouac's arena), and we should all exercise caution when
throwing around our Zen Buddhist phrases. Thru Time Zen monks in the Far East
have practiced, studied sutras, and gone half-mad on the path to experiencing
bodhi, or satori, or enlightenment (and Gautama Buddha himself, well we know
what ordeals preceded his "satori") and these are people whose lives were
wholly devoted to the experience of their Buddhism, down to the last teacup.
It's fantastic to experience insights into our own lives, especially when on
the road, and I give props to all who see deeper into themselves, I give holy
praises (to people like this cat who just got back...name David?)because we
all should be feeling insights into where and who and why we are...but I just
feel and have felt for a while that Kerouac's use of the word satori should
perhaps be taken lightly, more lightly perhaps than D.T. Suzuki's (or another
East-West Zen master's ) use of the word. I am in love with Kerouac's
writings but I still feel a bit cynical about his Zen...partly because I know
that I'm constantly equating myself and my own situations to Jack's (regarding
his thoughts on Zen), and I feel that the Zen about which he wrote and which
he experienced, and which I often believe to experience, is, i don't
know...there's some dualism which shouldn't be there, some lack of humility,
something entirely too Western and empty, or perhaps not empty enough.
A.C.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 10:35:57 +0100
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Allen Ginsberg & Ronald Reagan.
In-Reply-To: <199712291841.MAA08366@dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com>
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...
<<Ah love is so sweet in the Spring time,>>
Jeanette McDonald sang
three decades ago
on marble balustrade in giant darkness
downtown Paterson Fabian Theater balcony
I wept, How soft flesh is-
Watching boyish Ronald Reagan
emote
his shadow
across the 'Thirties
Same black vastness
pierced
by emotion
melancholy toward the stars-
Political planets whirling round the Sun,
...
a fragment by Allen Ginsberg, IRON HORSE, 22-23th july 1966.
the above fragment from IRON HORSE is nice as a back to
the future plot where Ginsberg in the Fabian (leftist society)
weeps for the future political planet of ronald reagan (the
'81-'89 Us of America president)
saluti,
Rinaldo
-------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 05:38:02 -0700
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From: Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: "BeatZen" (was Re: Satori in Phoenix)
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seems like what your saying here might make a bit of sense. least something to
dream about a bit over my morning coffee as my brother's cats -- precious and
bob-cat fondle my legs. Wondering if you find "any" Western uses of Zen phrases
reasonable. I have to say I feel an uneasiness squirm in my stomach at the
number
of "zenishistic" books at the Mall bookstores of America and think of the vast
uses and misuses of phrases and words in a viral departure from traditional
meanings.
VegasDaddy wrote:
> "Beat Zen" is something that we all I think need to watch out for. It's
> wonderful that Kerouac and Gary Snyder and Alan Watts and all those brilliant
> poetic angels with Western origins developed a penchant for Buddhism,
> especially Zen.
I think that my penchant probably began with Watts but I found more interesting
accounts in the writings of Blyth, Herrigel(sp?), and Suzuki. While i didn't
bring it on this trip, Blyth's "Games ZenMasters Play" is hilarious in many
regards. But I think that it is easy for us to attempt to gain "satori" or some
other word by imagining or replaying the path of another found in a book and i
think this is an error of sorts. Of course, we might happen along the way by a
repetitive pattern, but it seems that the experience which pops one's mind past
certain points on the perceptual map is usually unusual -- it isn't the usual
path
of another because the experience has a peculiar and particular flavour (and
odour
<grin>) for each person -- and for each moment of it.
I've had some difficulty in seeing the Zen in GS's writings. I can imagine that
certain experiences in the natural world might bring some kick in one's
awareness
-- and every so often a cricket's song will whack my ear just right -- but the
writing seems to me at least just propaganda against contemporary culture more
than accounts of illumination in the natural world.
> .but I think there was a huge gap inherent in this Beat Zen
> (especially in Kerouac's arena), and we should all exercise caution when
> throwing around our Zen Buddhist phrases.
I imagine you have something here with regards to Jack's uses. It seems that JK
-- and one of the things I enjoy most about him -- was willing to take ideas,
notions, words and whatnot and make them his own and put them to his own uses.
Soooooo if one is interested in strict and cautionary use of language JK would
not
be a primer of the path probably. But - this irreverance on his part might be
one
of the conditions required for sliding (or zooming) past the viral control of
certain words in the world today.
> Thru Time Zen monks in the Far East
> have practiced, studied sutras, and gone half-mad on the path to experiencing
> bodhi, or satori, or enlightenment (and Gautama Buddha himself, well we know
> what ordeals preceded his "satori") and these are people whose lives were
> wholly devoted to the experience of their Buddhism, down to the last teacup.
Teacup! -- beautiful and flower arranging and this and that and watching Alice
with my niece and nephew I'd probably suggest the half mad art of hat-wearing
(of
which i'm closer to the angle of illumination than with tea, flowers, or
archery)...
> It's fantastic to experience insights into our own lives, especially when on
> the road, and I give props to all who see deeper into themselves, I give holy
> praises (to people like this cat who just got back...name David?)because we
> all should be feeling insights into where and who and why we are.
backtoya with the praises (but not so holy) for these thoughts (from
David?race?)
insights into How we are can be nice as well.
> ..but I just
> feel and have felt for a while that Kerouac's use of the word satori should
> perhaps be taken lightly, more lightly perhaps than D.T. Suzuki's (or another
> East-West Zen master's ) use of the word.
And so where would you recommend one turn - or to whom? Are you saying that the
bridge between the experiences of East-West socio-culture are too vast to
translate from East to West or West to East --- not just in words but in deeds
and
attitude/orientation it would seem? Where does this leave us in the art of
how-ing our experiences.
> I am in love with Kerouac's
> writings but I still feel a bit cynical about his Zen...partly because I know
> that I'm constantly equating myself and my own situations to Jack's (regarding
> his thoughts on Zen), and I feel that the Zen about which he wrote and which
> he experienced, and which I often believe to experience, is, i don't
> know...there's some dualism which shouldn't be there, some lack of humility,
> something entirely too Western and empty, or perhaps not empty enough.
> A.C.
something entirely too Western and empty or perhaps not empty enough -
i think that is REALLY funny. it's so easy to slam and scream at the emptiness
of
living in Phoenix or the Plains and then turn in hope of an emptiness that is
BETTER or MORE EMPTY. The slamming and screaming seem to be the lack of
humility
-- and sometimes it feels that way about any writing as well (or is that just an
excuse for slow output on other projects?) .... when the screaming fades would
the
illuminati of Western emptiness be so horrible ---and to draw on Rinaldo's
Ginsberg/Reagan post --- this probably extends as far as Ronnie. Or as far back
as Ike tied to Burroughs in a letter ...
and if you tried to understand any of this ... well ... that was your choice.
david rhaesa (race)
coffee tastes the same
in Mesa
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 05:50:09 -0700
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From: Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: Re: Satori in Phoenix
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as i recall from some years back OED usually gives the context (in tiny tiny
tiny print) and i was wondering from where they drew these meanings for epiphany
and satori.............
david rhaesa (race)
looking for Abraxas in Mesa
sherri wrote:
> in my Oxford Dictionary epiphany involves the appearance of a god or
> demi-god. satori either doesn't involve any gods or may, but doesn't have
> to. depends on which form of Buddhism, i suppose.
>
> ciao, sherri
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>
> To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
> Date: Monday, December 29, 1997 9:10 PM
> Subject: Re: Satori in Phoenix
>
> >Aeronwytru wrote:
> >
> >> i'm lost. what exactly is satori that it's so great? i thought it was
> just a
> >> book or something. anyone care to enlighten me?
> >
> >"Somewhere during my ten days in Paris (AND Brittany) [and could easily
> have
> >been Phoenix AND Mesa] I received an illumination of some kind that seems
> to've
> >changed me again, towards what I suppose'll be my pattern for another seven
> >years or more: a SATORI: the Japanese word for 'sudden illumination,'
> 'sudden
> >awakening' or simply 'kick in the eye.' Whatever, something DID happen and
> in
> >my first reveries after the trip and I'm back home regrouping ...." Jack
> >Kerouac, Satori in Paris, p.1
> >
> >Can't enlighten ya further - better to find out for yerself. Experience
> your
> >own satori and tell us all how it smelled!
> >
> >So does anyone have insight on the difference between satori as used here
> and
> >epiphany as used elsewhere?
> >
> >david
> >
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 10:31:50 -0500
Reply-To: "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@uwaterloo.ca>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: Permutation poems
Comments: cc: Florian Cramer <cantsin@ZEDAT.FU-BERLIN.DE>
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On Sat, 27 Dec 1997, Florian Cramer wrote:
> took me long until I stumbled over information that Brion Gysin wrote
> "permutation poems" around 1960. This is highly interesting for me, since
> it was the same time when Raymond Queneau wrote his permuting "100.000
> Billion Poems" and when the information theorist Abraham A. Moles
> published his "Manifesto of Permutation Art".
There are Gysin permutation poems in _The Exterminator_, which was
published in 1960:
TITLE: The exterminator / William Burroughs, Brion Gysin. -
IMPRINT: San Francisco : Auerhahn Press, 1960.
NOTES: Narrative and poems. * Poems and calligraphs by Brion Gysin.
LANGUAGE: eng
PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION: 51 p. : ill. ; 24 cm.
ASSOCIATED NAME(S): Gysin, Brion. * Haselwood, Dave L. - Book designer. *
Haselwood, Dave L. - Printer. * McIlroy, James F. - Printer. *
Auerhahn Press - Private Press.
This was the first "cut-up" work Burroughs and Gysin published in
collaboration, although it came after the publication of _Minutes to Go_,
which also included work by Sinclair Beiles, and Gregory Corso. I haven't
yet read _Minutes to Go_, so I don't know if there are permutation poems
in there (anyone?), although I imagine there is, since that was extent of
his poetic contribution to The Exterminator (excepting, of course, the
calligraphic work):
TITLE: Minutes to go [by] Sinclair Beiles [and others.]
PUBLISHED: [Paris The English Bookshop] [c1960]
PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION: 63p.
SERIES: Two cities editions
There was a second edition that I am told is identical to the first (which
cannot be said for many books Burroughs has been involved with):
TITLE: Minutes to go [by] Sinclair Beiles [and others]
PUBLISHED: [San Francisco] Beach Books, Texts & Documents [c1968]
PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION: 63p.
I vaguely remember hearing that a permutation of Gysin's phrase "Rub out
the Word" appeared in _Minutes to Go_ but I'd check with someone who's
read the book. There are also recordings of Gysin reading his permutation
poems, including "Kick that Habit Man", "Junk is No Good Baby" and some
others.
As for finding the above books, if you wanted to buy them, you'd have to
shell out anywhere between $85 to $200 American dollars for The
Exterminator, and I've seen the first edition of Minutes to Go at a wide
range of prices from $100 to $250, and the second edition at around
$40-$80.
> You might also be interested
> to hear that the "fold-in" method was prototyped in a novel by Marc
> Saporta which appeared in the early 1960s.
Can you give a reference where I could find information about this?
The first book Burroughs wrote/assembled using fold-in texts-- _The Soft
Machine_ -- appeared in 1961 from The Olympia Press in Paris.
> It seems like the mutual
> influences on the development of combinatory/permutational literature in
> early 1960s France (where I guess Gysin was living at that time) still
> needs to be researched, in case I'm not telling you old stories here.
Certainly does. The 100,000 sonnet book gets a lot of attention from
people doing work on hypertext theory and literature. And yes, both
Burroughs and Gysin were living in Paris in the early 60's.
> Hence my question: Are Gysin's "permutation poems" published in books?
Yes, the one's above.
> Are there any essays or commentaries about them?
I haven't seen any.
> In the Web, I found information that Gysin created these poems with the
> help of a computer; however, the Web page didn't mention the source of
> this information, so I'm a bit suspicious.
I can't confirm that this is true, or offer a source (other than the
Burroughs bio's), but both Burroughs and Gysin worked with Ian
Sommerville, a computer scientist from Britain, on tape recorder
experiments, so it is possible that he helped Gysin with his
permutations.
> Did Gysin make any statements about his permutational poetry in
> interviews?
The best books to look into are _Here to Go: Planet R-101_ which is
constructed as a series of interviews with Gysin, _Brion Gysin Let the
Mice In_ , and _Man from Nowhere: Storming the Citadels of
Enlightenment_. Mike Cakebread might be able to tell you if there's
anything about permutations in the Man from Nowhere book (Mike?)
> ... It seems really difficult
> researching this, since most of Gysin's books are small press and out of
Yup, it sure is hard. I don't know what it's like in Europe, but decent
university libraries in N. America should have most of these books. For
instance, The University of Toronto libraries have all of the books I've
mentioned except for Man from Nowhere, although many of them are kept in
the rare book collection. I don't know if they do
inter-(continental)library loans though.
> and I guess that the majority of Gysin criticism has been published
> in the underground press.
There was a chap-book published for Burroughs' 80th birthday that had a
piece that took the oft-cited words of Hassan I Sabbah "Nothing
is True. Everything is Permitted" and transformed them into "Nothing is
True. Everything is Permuted". I'll check it out next time I'm at the
homestead to see if it's of interest.
Hope I've been of some assistance.
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 07:36:34 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: "BeatZen" (was Re: Satori in Phoenix)
while i like to see neither misuse of nor pablum philosophy - a philosophy
or religion is dead if it does not continue to evolve as humankind learns.
for zen to deny any great western insights or experiences, and there are
some, would mean that zen was getting in its own way, which would mean it
would be denying one of its own precepts: "if you meet the Buddha, kill
him".
paix, sherri
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tuesday, December 30, 1997 4:48 AM
Subject: "BeatZen" (was Re: Satori in Phoenix)
>seems like what your saying here might make a bit of sense. least
something to
>dream about a bit over my morning coffee as my brother's cats -- precious
and
>bob-cat fondle my legs. Wondering if you find "any" Western uses of Zen
phrases
>reasonable. I have to say I feel an uneasiness squirm in my stomach at the
> number
>of "zenishistic" books at the Mall bookstores of America and think of the
vast
>uses and misuses of phrases and words in a viral departure from traditional
>meanings.
>
>VegasDaddy wrote:
>
>> "Beat Zen" is something that we all I think need to watch out for. It's
>> wonderful that Kerouac and Gary Snyder and Alan Watts and all those
brilliant
>> poetic angels with Western origins developed a penchant for Buddhism,
>> especially Zen.
>
>I think that my penchant probably began with Watts but I found more
interesting
>accounts in the writings of Blyth, Herrigel(sp?), and Suzuki. While i
didn't
>bring it on this trip, Blyth's "Games ZenMasters Play" is hilarious in many
>regards. But I think that it is easy for us to attempt to gain "satori" or
some
>other word by imagining or replaying the path of another found in a book
and i
>think this is an error of sorts. Of course, we might happen along the way
by a
>repetitive pattern, but it seems that the experience which pops one's mind
past
>certain points on the perceptual map is usually unusual -- it isn't the
usual
> path
>of another because the experience has a peculiar and particular flavour
(and
> odour
><grin>) for each person -- and for each moment of it.
>
>I've had some difficulty in seeing the Zen in GS's writings. I can imagine
that
>certain experiences in the natural world might bring some kick in one's
> awareness
>-- and every so often a cricket's song will whack my ear just right -- but
the
>writing seems to me at least just propaganda against contemporary culture
more
>than accounts of illumination in the natural world.
>
>
>> .but I think there was a huge gap inherent in this Beat Zen
>> (especially in Kerouac's arena), and we should all exercise caution when
>> throwing around our Zen Buddhist phrases.
>
>I imagine you have something here with regards to Jack's uses. It seems
that JK
>-- and one of the things I enjoy most about him -- was willing to take
ideas,
>notions, words and whatnot and make them his own and put them to his own
uses.
>Soooooo if one is interested in strict and cautionary use of language JK
would
> not
>be a primer of the path probably. But - this irreverance on his part might
be
> one
>of the conditions required for sliding (or zooming) past the viral control
of
>certain words in the world today.
>
>
>> Thru Time Zen monks in the Far East
>> have practiced, studied sutras, and gone half-mad on the path to
experiencing
>> bodhi, or satori, or enlightenment (and Gautama Buddha himself, well we
know
>> what ordeals preceded his "satori") and these are people whose lives were
>> wholly devoted to the experience of their Buddhism, down to the last
teacup.
>
>Teacup! -- beautiful and flower arranging and this and that and watching
Alice
>with my niece and nephew I'd probably suggest the half mad art of
hat-wearing
> (of
>which i'm closer to the angle of illumination than with tea, flowers, or
>archery)...
>
>
>> It's fantastic to experience insights into our own lives, especially when
on
>> the road, and I give props to all who see deeper into themselves, I give
holy
>> praises (to people like this cat who just got back...name David?)because
we
>> all should be feeling insights into where and who and why we are.
>
>backtoya with the praises (but not so holy) for these thoughts (from
> David?race?)
>insights into How we are can be nice as well.
>
>
>> ..but I just
>> feel and have felt for a while that Kerouac's use of the word satori
should
>> perhaps be taken lightly, more lightly perhaps than D.T. Suzuki's (or
another
>> East-West Zen master's ) use of the word.
>
>And so where would you recommend one turn - or to whom? Are you saying
that the
>bridge between the experiences of East-West socio-culture are too vast to
>translate from East to West or West to East --- not just in words but in
deeds
> and
>attitude/orientation it would seem? Where does this leave us in the art of
>how-ing our experiences.
>
>
>> I am in love with Kerouac's
>> writings but I still feel a bit cynical about his Zen...partly because I
know
>> that I'm constantly equating myself and my own situations to Jack's
(regarding
>> his thoughts on Zen), and I feel that the Zen about which he wrote and
which
>> he experienced, and which I often believe to experience, is, i don't
>> know...there's some dualism which shouldn't be there, some lack of
humility,
>> something entirely too Western and empty, or perhaps not empty enough.
>> A.C.
>
>
>something entirely too Western and empty or perhaps not empty enough -
>i think that is REALLY funny. it's so easy to slam and scream at the
emptiness
> of
>living in Phoenix or the Plains and then turn in hope of an emptiness that
is
>BETTER or MORE EMPTY. The slamming and screaming seem to be the lack of
> humility
>-- and sometimes it feels that way about any writing as well (or is that
just an
>excuse for slow output on other projects?) .... when the screaming fades
would
> the
>illuminati of Western emptiness be so horrible ---and to draw on Rinaldo's
>Ginsberg/Reagan post --- this probably extends as far as Ronnie. Or as far
back
>as Ike tied to Burroughs in a letter ...
>
>and if you tried to understand any of this ... well ... that was your
choice.
>
>david rhaesa (race)
>coffee tastes the same
>in Mesa
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 07:37:47 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Satori in Phoenix
epiphany: 'Mid Eng from Greek epiphaneia 'manifestation', from epiphaino,
'reveal'
satori: Japanese, 'awakening'
so it seems to me one could use the word epiphany in place of satori, but
the sense could be misunderstood. plus epiphany carries the sense that
someone or thing outside the self originated the experience, which satori
does not seem to imply.
ciao, sherri
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tuesday, December 30, 1997 4:50 AM
Subject: Re: Satori in Phoenix
>as i recall from some years back OED usually gives the context (in tiny
tiny
>tiny print) and i was wondering from where they drew these meanings for
epiphany
>and satori.............
>
>david rhaesa (race)
>looking for Abraxas in Mesa
>
>sherri wrote:
>
>> in my Oxford Dictionary epiphany involves the appearance of a god or
>> demi-god. satori either doesn't involve any gods or may, but doesn't
have
>> to. depends on which form of Buddhism, i suppose.
>>
>> ciao, sherri
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>
>> To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>> Date: Monday, December 29, 1997 9:10 PM
>> Subject: Re: Satori in Phoenix
>>
>> >Aeronwytru wrote:
>> >
>> >> i'm lost. what exactly is satori that it's so great? i thought it was
>> just a
>> >> book or something. anyone care to enlighten me?
>> >
>> >"Somewhere during my ten days in Paris (AND Brittany) [and could easily
>> have
>> >been Phoenix AND Mesa] I received an illumination of some kind that
seems
>> to've
>> >changed me again, towards what I suppose'll be my pattern for another
seven
>> >years or more: a SATORI: the Japanese word for 'sudden illumination,'
>> 'sudden
>> >awakening' or simply 'kick in the eye.' Whatever, something DID happen
and
>> in
>> >my first reveries after the trip and I'm back home regrouping ...."
Jack
>> >Kerouac, Satori in Paris, p.1
>> >
>> >Can't enlighten ya further - better to find out for yerself. Experience
>> your
>> >own satori and tell us all how it smelled!
>> >
>> >So does anyone have insight on the difference between satori as used
here
>> and
>> >epiphany as used elsewhere?
>> >
>> >david
>> >
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 19:03:22 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: BeatSuperNovaUpdated
In-Reply-To: <199712291841.MAA08366@dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Return-Path: <npk@powertech.no>
>Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 22:41:12 +0100
>From: Nicholas Knutsen <npk@powertech.no>
>To: rasa@gpnet.it
>Subject: New beats for the list
>
>How about JIM JARMUSCH, a filmmaker who is very influenced by the beat
>style. And he works a lot with Tom Waits, and also JOHN LURIE, a
>musician who is not on your list either.
>And then there's LOU REED...
>
>Nick
>
>--
>--==--==--==--
>
>-- Mork, Where'd you get the dead Mindys..?
>-- They're not dead, Mind. It's just my personal pile of perkiness.
>
Nick, much thanks!
tante grazie for yr help to improve the beat web site,
i've added John Lurie to the list of beats,
have a happy new year!
saluti cari,
Rinaldo.
--------
p.s. i posted in the following url a picture of John Lurie (photographed
by Wim Wender)
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/lurie_john_at_soho.html
----------------------------------
Beats:The List
Beat SuperNova
an absolutely shit kicking list
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
----------------------------------
Carl Adkins
Willie Loco Alexander
Donald Allen
Steve Allen
David Amram
Kenneth Anger
Jerry Aronson
Al Aronowitz
Mary Beach
Amari Baraka (LeRoi Jones)
Wallace Berman
Stephen Jesse Bernstein
Ted Berrigan
Paul Blackburn
Robin Blaser
Richard Brautigan
Bonnie Bremser
Ray Bremser
Chandler Brossard
Lenny Bruce
Charles Bukowski
William S. Burroughs
William S. Burroughs Jr.
John Cage
Edgar Cayce
Caleb Carr
Lucien Carr
Paul Carroll
Louis R Cartwright
Carolyn Cassady
Neal Cassady
Norris Church
Tom Clark
Andy Clausen
Leonard Cohen
Al Cohn
Bruce Conner
Gregory Corso
Robert Creeley
Henry Cru
Fielding Dawson
Jay deFeo
Robert De Niro
Diane DiPrima
John Doe
Kirby Doyle
Edward Dorn
Robert Duncan
Bob Dylan
Larry Eigner
Kenward Elmslie
William Everson (Brother Antoninus)
Mary Fabilli
Larry Fagin
Richard Farina
Lawrence Ferlinghetti
Tom Field
Charles Henry Ford
Charles Foster
Robert Frank
Allen Ginsberg
John Giorno
Paul Goodman
Robert Gover
James Grauerholz
Morris Graves
Emmet Grogan
Brion Gysin
Howard Hart
Dave Hazelwood
Wally Hedrick
Abbie Hoffman
John Clellon Holmes
Herbert Huncke
Evan Hunter
William Inge
Robinson Jeffers
Ted Joans
Joyce Johnson
Lenore Kandel
John Kelly
Robert Kelly
Jack Kerouac
Jan Kerouac
Ken Kesey
Franz Kline
Seymour Krim
Paul Krassner
Art Kunkin
Tuli Kupferberg
Joanne Kyger
La Loca
Philip Lamantia
Jay Landesman
Fran Landesman
James Laughlin
Denise Levertov
Timothy Leary
Alfred Leslie
Lawrence Lipton
Ron Loewinsohn
Gerald Locklin
Philomene Long
Malcom Lowry
John Lurie
Bill MacNeill
Norman Mailer
Gerard Malanga
Edward Marshall
Peter Martin
Lewis McAdams
Joanna McClure
Michael McClure
Fred McDarrah
Don McNeill
Taylor Mead
David Meltzer
Jack Micheline
Henry Miller
John Montgomery
Shigeyoshi (Shig) Murao
Ken Nordine
Harold Norse
Frank O'Hara
David Ohle
Charles Olson
Peter Orlovsky
Kenneth Patchen
Thomas Parkinson
Claude Pelieu
Nancy Peters
Stuart Z. Perkoff
Charles Plymell
Dan Propper
Lee Ranaldo
Lou Reed
Kenneth Rexroth
Steve Richmond
Frank Rios
Edoardo Roditi
Theodore Roethke
Hugh Romney
Michael Rumaker
Ed Sanders
Albert Saijo
Mark Schorer
Tony Scibella
Hubert Jr. Selby
Patti Smith
Gary Snyder
Carl Solomon
Terry Southern
Jack Spicer
Hunter Stockton Thompson
Bob Thiele
John Thomas
Mark Tobey
Alexander Trocchi
Giuseppe Ungaretti
Charles Upton
Janine Pommy Vega
William T. Vollmann
Tom Waits
Anne Waldman
Lewis Warsh
Alan W. Watts
Lew Welch (Lewis Barret Welch)
Philip Whalen
John Wieners
Jonathan Williams
William Carlos Williams
Clay Wilson
Ruth Witt-Diamant
James Wright
Zoot Simms
Louis Zukofsky
------------------------------
last update 30th december 1997
------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 13:53:54 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Robert H. Sapp" <rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Subject: Re: Satori in Phoenix
In-Reply-To: <5096c7dd.34a8a68a@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tue, 30 Dec 1997, VegasDaddy wrote:
> "Beat Zen" is something that we all I think need to watch out for. It's
> wonderful that Kerouac and Gary Snyder and Alan Watts and all those brilliant
> poetic angels with Western origins developed a penchant for Buddhism,
> especially Zen..but I think there was a huge gap inherent in this Beat Zen
> (especially in Kerouac's arena), and we should all exercise caution when
> throwing around our Zen Buddhist phrases. Thru Time Zen monks in the Far East
> have practiced, studied sutras, and gone half-mad on the path to experiencing
> bodhi, or satori, or enlightenment (and Gautama Buddha himself, well we know
> what ordeals preceded his "satori") and these are people whose lives were
> wholly devoted to the experience of their Buddhism, down to the last teacup.
> It's fantastic to experience insights into our own lives, especially when on
> the road, and I give props to all who see deeper into themselves, I give holy
> praises (to people like this cat who just got back...name David?)because we
> all should be feeling insights into where and who and why we are...but I just
> feel and have felt for a while that Kerouac's use of the word satori should
> perhaps be taken lightly, more lightly perhaps than D.T. Suzuki's (or another
> East-West Zen master's ) use of the word. I am in love with Kerouac's
> writings but I still feel a bit cynical about his Zen...partly because I know
> that I'm constantly equating myself and my own situations to Jack's (regarding
> his thoughts on Zen), and I feel that the Zen about which he wrote and which
> he experienced, and which I often believe to experience, is, i don't
> know...there's some dualism which shouldn't be there, some lack of humility,
> something entirely too Western and empty, or perhaps not empty enough.
> A.C.
>
if all is emptiness (sunyata), how can something be 'not empty enough'
eric
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 14:06:43 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: GTL1951 <GTL1951@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Satori in Phoenix
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Hey Vegas
I believe you have a valid point here. I also believe that what kept
JK from totally getting into a "real" Zen was his inherent hangups via Roman
Catholicism. A tough nut to break away from in any case. Satori doesnt come
cheap, if ever. If you look at it is as simple little breakthroughs i feel you
might miss the total picture. This is only my opinion, and coming from one who
has been away from Zen for 20 some years and now trying to work my way back
into it. I love Some of the Dharma but I also realize that it was written by a
man who was sorta confused when he wrote it. I think we should appreciate what
the Beats were doing when they got into Buddhism and Zen, and in the case of
Snyder, actually made a comitment to it. Also would have to include Whalen in
there. Its a hard road. I hope to finish it. Not holding my breath, then again
I am.
GT
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 14:40:58 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: New/"Kerouac: The Essence of Jack"
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 29 Dec 1997 21:37:20 -0800 from
<MMACONNELL@MAIL.EWU.EDU>
On the contrary, Mary, we haven't heard much on this play. Any further comment
s you have will be of interest.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 16:43:31 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Hpark4 <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: New/"Kerouac: The Essence of Jack"
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Thanks to Diane DeRooy I saw the play - the Essence of Jack, while visiting
Seattle this fall. It was excellent.
It has run in Seattle, at a small theatre, the Velvet Elvis just off Pioneer
Square (the original skid row), for over a year. I'm not sure if it is still
running, it has been held over several times.
It opens with a fine jazz combo. From there it is a series of events from
Kerouac's life. It sticks pretty close to the facts as I understand them with
some "license" when the actor gets into the rhelm of how Kerouac felt about
certain things. The territiory is pretty familier - Gerards death, football
days, meeting Cassidy and Ginsberg, troubles getting On The Road published,
positive and negative reactions to OTR, troubles brought on by sudden fame,
the Steve Allen show, the breakdown at Big Sur, the Merry Pranksters visit,
the alcohol soaked 60's. Readings from various Kerouac books are sprinkled
throughout. At the end Vincent takes questions -- mostly from
twentysomethings who know a little, but not a lot, about Kerouac.
I highly recommend the play to anyone visiting Seattle.
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 17:08:42 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: VegasDaddy <VegasDaddy@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: "BeatZen" (was Re: Satori in Phoenix)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 97-12-30 07:38:53 EST, you write:
<< I imagine you have something here with regards to Jack's uses. It seems
that JK
-- and one of the things I enjoy most about him -- was willing to take ideas,
notions, words and whatnot and make them his own and put them to his own
uses.
Soooooo if one is interested in strict and cautionary use of language JK
would
not
be a primer of the path probably. But - this irreverance on his part might
be
one
of the conditions required for sliding (or zooming) past the viral control of
certain words in the world today. >>
David - Very true, Jack's non-conformity, or "irreverance" both on and off the
page are what made him so beautiful, and as an original stylist he is
immortal. But I don't think that he was really ever able to grasp Buddhism
beyond an intellectual level. I think that if Jack had really had a genuine
satori, then he would not have died by the bottle.
As for living in Pheonix or the Plains, I don't think that would put a damper
on anyone's Zen. I just think that here in the Western world we tend to view
life very differently than they view it in the Far East, and when Americans
take Zen Buddhist concepts and play around with them, very often their Zen
becomes defiled confused and futile. I'm not saying that a Westerner can't
practice Zen or gain new insights into Buddhism or even realize Prajna, that
is, experience satori thru seeing into their own Buddha-natures...but we
definitely tend to intellectualize these things and adapt them to our somewhat
fucked up American way of looking at things, at least when we adopt Zen.
It is one (and a wonderful) thing to gain insight into one's life. It is
another (and not very common) thing to experience a Zen satori, to become one
with your no-mind or Unconscious, or to see into the vast emptiness of one's
own self-nature.
Tho I do hear what you're saying about irreverance to language, and I think
that you are absolutely right and most of the Time I say screw traditional
uses of words...but with Zen Buddhism I feel that we must look to the East,
and BeatZen is great but when we read it and about it I think we need to
realize that it's not true Zen teaching...
Anthony C.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 17:31:14 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aeronwytru <Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Permutation poems
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
what the heck is a permutation poem? help! i really don't know very much about
this sort of stuff and i hate not knowing things. can someone tell me what it
is in non-technical (read---> layman's) terms and send me a copy of one?
thanks so much.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 16:27:20 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: Re: BeatSuperNovaUpdated
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> ----------------------------------
> Beats:The List
> Beat SuperNova
> an absolutely shit kicking list
> http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
> ----------------------------------
>
> Michael McClure
i just found a copy of something called "The Beard" by MM today. The
afterward said it was performed four times before police intervention. I
thought that was kinda funny. Anybody read it?
david rhaesa (race)
winding down the year in mesa
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 00:26:50 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: "BeatZen" (was Re: Satori in Phoenix)
In-Reply-To: <074cc1138151ec7UPIMSSMTPUSR04@email.msn.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
"Every healthy culture provides for there being non-joiners. Sanyassi,
hermits, drop-outs too...Every healthy society has to tolerate this... "
--Alan Watts.
i have some problems concerning why Jack Kerouac's rejected
the zen experience it seem to me zen is near the catholic feeling
of the life, rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 15:38:33 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael R. Brown" <foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>
Subject: Re: "BeatZen" (was Re: Satori in Phoenix)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19971231002650.0068c89c@pop.gpnet.it>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 31 Dec 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> i have some problems concerning why Jack Kerouac's rejected
> the zen experience it seem to me zen is near the catholic feeling
> of the life, rinaldo.
perhaps because kerouac had so cleansed his consciousness of objectivity
and objective structures, the Nothingness of zen would have been too much
for him. his was essentially a catholic mind, and as such was more at
home in ritual and pageantry than in the zen void. he was like watts in
that - i think watts had very little affection for the void of zen ... his
wonderful _way of zen_ book turns the patriarchs and disciplies into a
colorful pageant through time anyway; has more of a mahayana / tibetan
buddhist feeling.
+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +
Michael R. Brown foosi@global.california.com
+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +
Find out the laws then do what you will.
- Susannah Thompson
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 17:45:53 -0800
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@email.msn.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: "BeatZen" (was Re: Satori in Phoenix)
Anthony C. wrote:
>But I don't think that he was really ever able to grasp Buddhism
>beyond an intellectual level. I think that if Jack had really had a
>genuine satori, then he would not have died by the bottle.
while i would agree with you that satori is probably a rather rare
experience, not just in the western world, but in all of it, i would
strongly hesitate to judge anyone else's experience. after all, it's only
experienced within one's own nature. who is anyone to externally judge
that? and who's to say that dying by the bottle wasn't JK's path? i also
never felt that Jack was attempting to be only zen. he looked into, at
least, mahayana buddhism and hinduism and found wisdom there as well.
perhaps, he sought to find those few basic, fundamental truths which seem to
run like a golden thread throughout this world's religions and philosophies,
looking to validate and more deeply understand them.
ciao, sherri
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 22:40:34 +0000
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: BeatSuperNovaUpdated
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Rinaldo,
I like the new list. Just a few minor arguments from me (also plead
ignorance on a few)
John Cage --Black Mtn and all, but beat?--a stretch
Malcolm Lowry--wonderful writer, but definitely not beat to me
Mark Shorer--don't see that one at all either--maybe my memory is wrong but
I remember him as pretty buttoned down and un beat--
but these are minor disagreements. You have done a great service and it is
a wonderful list for suggesting a lot of directions to look.
James Stauffer
Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> >Return-Path: <npk@powertech.no>
> >Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 22:41:12 +0100
> >From: Nicholas Knutsen <npk@powertech.no>
> >To: rasa@gpnet.it
> >Subject: New beats for the list
> >
> >How about JIM JARMUSCH, a filmmaker who is very influenced by the beat
> >style. And he works a lot with Tom Waits, and also JOHN LURIE, a
> >musician who is not on your list either.
> >And then there's LOU REED...
> >
> >Nick
> >
> >--
> >--==--==--==--
> >
> >-- Mork, Where'd you get the dead Mindys..?
> >-- They're not dead, Mind. It's just my personal pile of perkiness.
> >
>
> Nick, much thanks!
>
> tante grazie for yr help to improve the beat web site,
> i've added John Lurie to the list of beats,
> have a happy new year!
>
> saluti cari,
> Rinaldo.
> --------
> p.s. i posted in the following url a picture of John Lurie (photographed
> by Wim Wender)
>
> http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/lurie_john_at_soho.html
>
> ----------------------------------
> Beats:The List
> Beat SuperNova
> an absolutely shit kicking list
> http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
> ----------------------------------
> Carl Adkins
> Willie Loco Alexander
> Donald Allen
> Steve Allen
> David Amram
> Kenneth Anger
> Jerry Aronson
> Al Aronowitz
> Mary Beach
> Amari Baraka (LeRoi Jones)
> Wallace Berman
> Stephen Jesse Bernstein
> Ted Berrigan
> Paul Blackburn
> Robin Blaser
> Richard Brautigan
> Bonnie Bremser
> Ray Bremser
> Chandler Brossard
> Lenny Bruce
> Charles Bukowski
> William S. Burroughs
> William S. Burroughs Jr.
> John Cage
> Edgar Cayce
> Caleb Carr
> Lucien Carr
> Paul Carroll
> Louis R Cartwright
> Carolyn Cassady
> Neal Cassady
> Norris Church
> Tom Clark
> Andy Clausen
> Leonard Cohen
> Al Cohn
> Bruce Conner
> Gregory Corso
> Robert Creeley
> Henry Cru
> Fielding Dawson
> Jay deFeo
> Robert De Niro
> Diane DiPrima
> John Doe
> Kirby Doyle
> Edward Dorn
> Robert Duncan
> Bob Dylan
> Larry Eigner
> Kenward Elmslie
> William Everson (Brother Antoninus)
> Mary Fabilli
> Larry Fagin
> Richard Farina
> Lawrence Ferlinghetti
> Tom Field
> Charles Henry Ford
> Charles Foster
> Robert Frank
> Allen Ginsberg
> John Giorno
> Paul Goodman
> Robert Gover
> James Grauerholz
> Morris Graves
> Emmet Grogan
> Brion Gysin
> Howard Hart
> Dave Hazelwood
> Wally Hedrick
> Abbie Hoffman
> John Clellon Holmes
> Herbert Huncke
> Evan Hunter
> William Inge
> Robinson Jeffers
> Ted Joans
> Joyce Johnson
> Lenore Kandel
> John Kelly
> Robert Kelly
> Jack Kerouac
> Jan Kerouac
> Ken Kesey
> Franz Kline
> Seymour Krim
> Paul Krassner
> Art Kunkin
> Tuli Kupferberg
> Joanne Kyger
> La Loca
> Philip Lamantia
> Jay Landesman
> Fran Landesman
> James Laughlin
> Denise Levertov
> Timothy Leary
> Alfred Leslie
> Lawrence Lipton
> Ron Loewinsohn
> Gerald Locklin
> Philomene Long
> Malcom Lowry
> John Lurie
> Bill MacNeill
> Norman Mailer
> Gerard Malanga
> Edward Marshall
> Peter Martin
> Lewis McAdams
> Joanna McClure
> Michael McClure
> Fred McDarrah
> Don McNeill
> Taylor Mead
> David Meltzer
> Jack Micheline
> Henry Miller
> John Montgomery
> Shigeyoshi (Shig) Murao
> Ken Nordine
> Harold Norse
> Frank O'Hara
> David Ohle
> Charles Olson
> Peter Orlovsky
> Kenneth Patchen
> Thomas Parkinson
> Claude Pelieu
> Nancy Peters
> Stuart Z. Perkoff
> Charles Plymell
> Dan Propper
> Lee Ranaldo
> Lou Reed
> Kenneth Rexroth
> Steve Richmond
> Frank Rios
> Edoardo Roditi
> Theodore Roethke
> Hugh Romney
> Michael Rumaker
> Ed Sanders
> Albert Saijo
> Mark Schorer
> Tony Scibella
> Hubert Jr. Selby
> Patti Smith
> Gary Snyder
> Carl Solomon
> Terry Southern
> Jack Spicer
> Hunter Stockton Thompson
> Bob Thiele
> John Thomas
> Mark Tobey
> Alexander Trocchi
> Giuseppe Ungaretti
> Charles Upton
> Janine Pommy Vega
> William T. Vollmann
> Tom Waits
> Anne Waldman
> Lewis Warsh
> Alan W. Watts
> Lew Welch (Lewis Barret Welch)
> Philip Whalen
> John Wieners
> Jonathan Williams
> William Carlos Williams
> Clay Wilson
> Ruth Witt-Diamant
> James Wright
> Zoot Simms
> Louis Zukofsky
> ------------------------------
> last update 30th december 1997
> ------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 02:21:27 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: NICO 88 <NICO88@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: BeatSuperNovaUpdated
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
hey, dont you guys think Jim Carroll's beat?
i mean if you're gonna name Lou Reed and Patti Smith "beats", well then...
oh, and why no Dennis Hopper??????
-- Ginny.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 13:19:02 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: "BeatZen" (was Re: Satori in Phoenix)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.95.971230153355.13470B-100000@global.california .com>
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>On Wed, 31 Dec 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
>> i have some problems concerning why Jack Kerouac's rejected
>> the zen experience it seem to me zen is near the catholic feeling
>> of the life, rinaldo.
At 15.38 30/12/97 -0800, Michael R. Brown wrote:
>
>perhaps because kerouac had so cleansed his consciousness of objectivity
>and objective structures, the Nothingness of zen would have been too much
>for him. his was essentially a catholic mind, and as such was more at
>home in ritual and pageantry than in the zen void. [...]
> Michael R. Brown foosi@global.california.com
michael,
i think, jack kerouac abandoned the countercultural movement
growing in the '60s (ginsberg, snyder, et cetera) for istance
he started the revisionism of the "beat" shifting the meaning
from "hey i'm beat" to "beatific" as in Saint Francesco way.
kerouac in his last years have a little problems with his old
beat friends (& wasn't present in the countercultural debate).
sometime expressed furore as for political or cultural performances
of his dated friends. anyway jack kerouac via the catholic
roman church has a reincarnation not a rebirth. in my opinion
the myth of the reincarnation of our own body (in flesh) and
not trasmigrate in other beings on this planet (kharma) is a strong
point favorauble to mother christian/catholic curch way of life
(i think of "visions of gerard"), &(sad) the good dies young...,
saluti rinaldo.
---------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 07:00:17 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: Re: New/"Kerouac: The Essence of Jack"
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Looking forward to hearing more about Jack's Essence.
Please tell us more and more and more....
david rhaesa (race)
still in the Valley
Mary Maconnell wrote:
> Hi. I'm new to the list and probably shouldn't be posting until I sit and
> read letters for a few days but I'm posting nonetheless. I've read Jack
> and loved him but what spurred me to join a mailing list was this show I
> caught in Seattle: "Kerouac: The Essence of Jack." Probably some of you
> have seen it and know what I'm talking about. Vincent Balestri performs
> this one-man show where he plays Jack and *IS* Jack. I'm not going to
> be unpurposefully redundant in telling you all about it because it's
> probably already been discussed here. But I was amazed and mesmerized
> and it was the best live theater thing I have ever seen in my life.
>
> So I'm glad there's a mailing list for this and so far I've read really
> great things and I'm looking forward to reading even more. :)
>
> Mary
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 10:17:25 -0500
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From: Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Last goodbye to Allen & Bill
In-Reply-To: <34AA4FF0.F5BD7247@primenet.com>
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As 1997 comes to a close, so we say goodbye to the last year of the lives
of Allen Ginsberg and Bill Burroughs. The coming year, and all the
coming years, will not seem as full without those two in the world.
Goodbye Allen...Goodbye Bill...your words will live on.
Next time Im at the White Horse, I'm going to drink a cold one in your
memories.
RJW
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 07:22:57 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "Michael R. Brown" <foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>
Subject: Re: Last goodbye to Allen & Bill
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.971231101354.18642A-100000@cap1.capaccess.org>
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On Wed, 31 Dec 1997, Richard Wallner wrote:
> As 1997 comes to a close, so we say goodbye to the last year of the lives
> of Allen Ginsberg and Bill Burroughs. The coming year, and all the
> coming years, will not seem as full without those two in the world.
>
> Goodbye Allen...Goodbye Bill...your words will live on.
>
> Next time Im at the White Horse, I'm going to drink a cold one in your
> memories.
To paraphrase Bill's friend, the Bard of Avon,
They were men.
Take them all for all
And all in all,
Their like shall not come again.
+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +
Michael R. Brown foosi@global.california.com
+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +
Find out the laws then do what you will.
- Susannah Thompson
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:08:02 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: MATT HANNAN <MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>
Subject: Hello Again
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I'm back again, at least temporarily. I thought I'd give the list
another try, I've been watching for a few days and no one's used the
dreaded E- word, (can't bear to even write the whole word, someone may
bring the subject up again).
Received a copy of Some of the Dharma for the holidays. Anyone else
currently in its throes?
love and lilies,
matt
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:00:07 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: ho ho holicay
Comments: To: stauffer@pacbell.net
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I am envious of you all, getting together in calif , sherri give marie a
hug, james, give sherri a hug. etc. my self i usually don't hug but if
i see david on his way back to salina i will give him a hug. We have
been warned to watch out for beat zen signs so, i will watch out, eager
always to advance the warpage of an old religion. I am not sure that i
see zen in catholicism but it is probaly every and nowhere. so also i
will watch out in case jacks catholic whims start invading my
conciousness.
kick your heels
patricia
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:28:58 -0800
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@email.msn.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Subject: Happy New Year
well, kids it's been wonderful, sad, tragic, wild, crazy year. this list
has added a lot for me and i want to thank you all for all the great, crazy
and even inane thoughts that have run through the list. always good to get
the brain cells stirred up.
anyway, i wish you all a beatific, wild, crazy, safe new year, and...
live, live, live like mad!!!
ciao, sherri
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:30:04 -0800
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@email.msn.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: ho ho holicay
Patricia - we'll all give hugs in your name. sure wish you were with us.
you can hug david for all of us, when he comes back through. happy new
year! sherri
-----Original Message-----
From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wednesday, December 31, 1997 9:00 AM
Subject: ho ho holicay
>I am envious of you all, getting together in calif , sherri give marie a
>hug, james, give sherri a hug. etc. my self i usually don't hug but if
>i see david on his way back to salina i will give him a hug. We have
>been warned to watch out for beat zen signs so, i will watch out, eager
>always to advance the warpage of an old religion. I am not sure that i
>see zen in catholicism but it is probaly every and nowhere. so also i
>will watch out in case jacks catholic whims start invading my
>conciousness.
>kick your heels
>patricia
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 13:26:36 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Bill Philibin <deadbeat@BUFFNET.NET>
Subject: Happy New year From Buffalo, NY
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I don't know how far this list spans, or how many cultures it touches, but
Happy new year and seasons greetings to each and all. It's been a wacky
year... Full of laughs, tears, hope, some more tears, and I'd just like to
give everyone a great big sloppy kiss from a Drunkard. I'll have a drink
at the fall of the ball and think about everyone who has passed. Join me.
-Bill
[ email: deadbeat@buffnet.net | web: http://www.buffnet.net/~deadbeat ]
|"An unexamined life is not worth living."
|
| -- Socrates
[--- ICQ UIN = 188335 --|-- PrettyGoodPrivacy v2.6.2 Key By Request --]
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 19:32:19 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: BeatSuperNovaUpdated
In-Reply-To: <75dd107b.34a9f27a@aol.com>
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At 02.21 31/12/97 EST, NICO 88 <NICO88@AOL.COM> wrote:
>hey, dont you guys think Jim Carroll's beat?
>i mean if you're gonna name Lou Reed and Patti Smith "beats", well then...
>
>oh, and why no Dennis Hopper??????
>
>-- Ginny.
>
ginny, grazie (thanks) for yr comments, i consider to expand
the list. why not Kim Gordon (Sonic Youth's singer)?,
again saluti by rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:07:30 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Some Dharma 1997
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>From South China Morning Post
_______
Wednesday December 31 1997
Buddhists free fish to
appease poultry
ANDREA LI
Buddhists freed more than 600 kilograms of live
fish yesterday in an effort to pacify the souls of the
slaughtered chickens.
The Reverend Sik Wing Sing said the worshippers
released a fishing boat's catch worth an estimated
$49,000 off Sai Kung.
"There were lots of fish of all types and sizes. This
is a standard ritual we perform every so often as we
believe the freeing of life will help others," said
Reverend Sik.
The fish-releasing ceremony is performed by
Buddhists twice a year. Yesterday's event involved
more than 150 worshippers.
"By releasing life back into the sea, it will be easier
for animals and humans to come back into the
world," Buddhist Leung Him-tai, 46, said. "In the
wake of the chicken slaughter, it will also help the
chickens die more comfortably and make their
deaths less painful."
Chui Shing-lei, 31, is a regular participant in the
ceremonies. "I know I have done something good.
It is, in essence, freeing and saving someone's life."
Other ceremonies to pacify the souls of the dead
birds will start this morning at Western Monastery
in Lo Wai, Tsuen Wan, and continue for seven
days.
"Dozens of monks will chant poems to send the
souls to peaceful lands," said Foon Wang, a monk
at the monastery.
The prayers will run from 9 am to 11.30 am, and
from 1 pm to 4 pm.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 14:52:13 -0500
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Titanic and Nike
In-Reply-To: <34AA4FF0.F5BD7247@primenet.com>
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If any Beat Listers happen to see the movie TITANIC check for a Nike Swoosh
on the Life Jackets. Did I really see that? Not possible to sit through it
twice.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 13:22:14 -0800
Reply-To: Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE
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I am sitting here at the open window bringing to me luscious ocean flavored
breezes drenched in pale sunlight painting moving silver amorphous textures
in the clear sky, saying good bye to another year serenely moving us another
notch closer to the 21st century. Marie is resting with a book in her room.
We are getting ready to join a couple of friends in the first night
festivities downtown Santa Cruz. Indoors and out, entertainment everywhere,
last year there were about 20,000 grown ups and kids greeting the new year
with alcohol free good vibes.
I would like to find some very clever one liner, but all I can think of is
wishes for a year full of Happiness Love and Peace for all of us.
leon
leon
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:29:41 EST
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aeronwytru <Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Some Dharma 1997
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that's funny because i heard on the news that they Buddhist monks were singing
chants for the souls of the chickens.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:30:52 EST
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From: Aeronwytru <Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>
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Subject: Re: Titanic and Nike
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am going to see it soon. will let you know. tll me mmore about where to look.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:36:47 EST
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From: Aeronwytru <Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE
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ummm.. that sounds so luscious. i'm so jealous! i'm stuck here in smoggy nyc.
well i'm no good at spontaneous one-liners either, so happy new year's to you
too.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:49:08 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Aeronwytru <Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: BeatSuperNovaUpdated
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maybe i missed him, but i don't remember seeing rimbaud on there. i think he
deserves to be on there as much as any of those people. and what about marcel
proust? saroyan?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 22:47:58 +0100
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: L'Isola della Certosa.
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friends,
i've the pleasure to present a beautiful web site
developed by Daniele Savio a friend of mine who
is an ecologist devoted to defend the nature against
the damage of the human negligence regard the resource
of our planet. his principal objective is to rescue
the Isola della Certosa near Venice (see the map
linked in the web pages). i hope his efforts 'll have
rewarded during this coming year to create a natural park
in this island at disposal for the people.
--- * ---
L'ISOLA DELLA CERTOSA A VENEZIA.
For beyond 600 years the island was place of religious
installations, initially of the Agostiniani, afterward,
beginning from the 1424, of the Fathers chartreuses,
which, on sketch of Pietro Lombardo, they reconstructed
the church and they widened the complex conventual,
that finished for deal with (like he testifies the
press of Coronelli Vincenzo) the complete surface of the island.
Ample spaces had destined to meadows and planted with trees
avenues and, in distinctive, to the gardens, that, with the
donations of the believers, they contributed to the economic
calm of the religious, consenting those conditions of
essential isolation to the monastic life. Around to the 1820,
with the cancel of the religious Orders, the convent came
completely demolished to exception of the guesthouse,
reformatted to military barracks, and the island was military
custom. The numerous other constructions by now half-destroyed
and invaded from the present botany in the island belongs to
the recent history and results barren of historic or artistic
interest.
web path to a virtual garden in Venice:
http://www.gpnet.it/savio/certosa/intro.htm
http://www.gpnet.it/savio/certosa/spot1.htm
http://www.gpnet.it/savio/certosa/zoom.htm
http://www.gpnet.it/savio/certosa/cert_sto.htm
http://www.gpnet.it/savio/certosa/cert_ide.htm
http://www.gpnet.it/savio/certosa/schede/percintr.htm
http://www.gpnet.it/savio/certosa/schede/percomap.htm
thanks Daniele!
--- * ---
saluti a tutti,
Rinaldo.
-------
31thDec97
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 17:20:02 -0500
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Kerouac Reissue on Verve Records!
Mime-Version: 1.0
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We have a scan of the cover, a link to the product, and the latest news at
your fingertips! Go to:
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/KerouacQuarterly.html
Happy New Years to all!
Paul of The Kerouac Quarterly....
"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 17:48:05 EST
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From: GTL1951 <GTL1951@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Some Dharma 1997
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I am not real sure i see the humor in the monks chanting for the souls of the
chickens. Explain, please?
GT
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 20:52:56 EST
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From: CIRCULATION <breithau@KENYON.EDU>
------------------------------ Rejected message ------------------------------
Received: by kenyon.edu (MX V4.2 VAX) id 16; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 13:44:14 EST
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 13:44:13 EST
From: CIRCULATION <breithau@kenyon.edu>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDY
Message-ID: <009BF97A.A491DA20.16@kenyon.edu>
Subject: Let Dreiser drive...
Excuse me if I mentioned this book before, can't remember if I have but I'd
like to mention the recent re-issue of A HOOSIER HOLIDAY by Theodore Dreiser.
This reprint is nicely done by Indiana University Press and has the original
illustrations of Franklin Booth, who was one of the main artists for the
magazine, the MASSES.
Published originally in 1915, this is one of the first 'road books' ever
produced in America. In this piece, Dreiser decides to take a trip from New
York State back to his home in Indiana with artist Franklin Booth, who is also
a character in this book. They hire a youngkid to drive, who is given the
nikname of "Speed." The book has many close associations with On The Road.
This paricular edition btw, has a forward by Douglas Brinkley. If you have
never cared much for Dreisers writing, let me say that this is the man at his
best, the writing is excellent.
Ever since reading Keroauc's On The Road, I have been interested in travel
books that cross this country via auto. They make nice background reading for
OTR. Also of interest might be FREE AIR, by Sinclair Lewis. This came out in
1917 and is more of a novel than Dreiser's memoir-like Holiday. FREE AIR is
interesting, wort the read if you can find it, it is still another among the
earliest of On The Road books. But by all means, check out A Hoosier Holiday,
five stars.
Cheers in 1998 and to anotheryear of good books!
Dave B.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 18:05:34 +0000
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Let the Good Times Roll
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Happy New Year to all of you.
I'll lift a glass and pass the pipe for the List. Let it rip!
James
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 21:46:29 -0500
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Leon
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Leon wrote:
> I would like to find some very clever one liner, but all I can think of is
> wishes for a year full of Happiness Love and Peace for all of us.
>
> leon
>
Leon:
What could be more clever. Thanks and the same to ya!
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 22:01:02 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Glenn Cooper <coopergw@MPX.COM.AU>
Subject: Help!
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I seem to have been unsubbed from this list. Haven't received a post in
three days. Could somebody please tell me (via private email) how I can
resubscribe?
Thanks.
Glenn C.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 22:12:55 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Re: Help!
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Glenn:
Here is what I know.
> To subscribe, send an email to
> listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu with a blank subject line. In the body of your mail,
type "subscribe
> Beat-L ." There's been some interesting talk there lately.
>
Glenn Cooper wrote:
> I seem to have been unsubbed from this list. Haven't received a post in
> three days. Could somebody please tell me (via private email) how I can
> resubscribe?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Glenn C.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 22:15:33 -0500
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Sorry
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Sorry
I knew it.
James warned me.
But anyway,
I still blew it.
Back channel, back channel, back channel
Is my manta.
Bandwidth wasted,
Sour tasted,
Sorry.
:-)
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 22:12:16 -0500
Reply-To: cosmicat@holeintheweb.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: cosmicat@HOLEINTHEWEB.COM
Subject: Re: Help!
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Glenn Cooper wrote:
>
> I seem to have been unsubbed from this list. Haven't received a post in
> three days. Could somebody please tell me (via private email) how I can
> resubscribe?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Glenn C.
i think you send the e-mail to listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu and put
subscribe beat-l in the body text. if not...ask bill gargan. you might
add your name and e-mail address as well.
later,
michael
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 21:29:47 -0700
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: Re: Leon
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so i was thinking....since new year's eve seems to be a valid excuse to party
all night
(i was looking up at the Arizona stars) and i says well if we all decided to
astral project
simultaneously to a star 100,000 light years from here we could reasonably have
100,000 days in a row of new year's eve parties. see you in the stars everyone
have a happy new year
david rhaesa
somewhere between Arizona and beta antares
R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>
> > I would like to find some very clever one liner, but all I can think of is
> > wishes for a year full of Happiness Love and Peace for all of us.
> >
> > leon
> >
> Leon:
>
> What could be more clever. Thanks and the same to ya!
>
> --
>
> Peace,
>
> Bentz
> bocelts@scsn.net
> http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 04:04:35 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City University of NY (1.8c)" <LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: File: "BEAT-L LOG9801"
To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 23:36:06 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Some Dharma 1997
In-Reply-To: <4137cc00.34aacba7@aol.com>
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>I am not real sure i see the humor in the monks chanting for the souls of the
>chickens. Explain, please?
> GT
Wish I could provide more details, but my understanding is that the monks
released many, many fish back into the sea as a spiritual attonment for the
slaughtering of the chickens. Read a note that they released a ship's catch
of fish. Many hundreds of them.
Here in Madison it will be 1998 in 20 minutes.
My best to you all in the new year.
Peace and justice,
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 02:27:04 -0600
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: Happy New Year
Comments: To: Rounders List <hmr@olywa.net>,
Loudon List <loudon@world.std.com>,
Irene Apalsch <momandmike@juno.com>,
John D Barton <jdbarton@unm.edu>,
Linda Beck <beckl@milwaukee.tec.wi.us>,
Jim D Deuchars <deuchars@juno.com>, Mary Gardner <rgardner@up.net>,
Bryan Kanieski <JKanieski@aol.com>, Gary Maynard <manog@aol.com>,
George Maynard <chjm47f@prodigy.com>,
Hudson Maynard <maynard5@olypen.com>,
Jack C Maynard <chjm47a@prodigy.com>,
Jackie Maynard <maynardj@ucs.orst.edu>,
Chris Mooney <cmooney@wvu.edu>, Jodie Mooney <jodie@calkinslaw.com>,
Fritz Schuler <goldenrg@lakefield.net>,
Bob Weeth <BWEETH@CENTURYINTER.NET>, Sarah Westbrook <smm@flash.net>,
Ann Wichmann <wichmann@co.dane.wi.us>
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Good morning, America, how are ya?
Just got home from a wonderful gathering of friends, singing in the new
year with guitars, mandolins, fiddle, washboard, harmonica, and conga dru=
m,
laughing, eating, talking, telling stories, and sharing the warmth of
loving friendship with each other. At midnight we all hugged and kissed
and sang "Auld Lang Syne"...starting out with tongue slightly in cheek, b=
ut
by the end the beauty of that fine old Scots song transcended the clich=E9
and drew us all together. And one and all were so sweet, assuring me tha=
t
1998 was going to be a much better year for me. I can't think of a nicer
way I would have wanted to spend tonight.
Wishing all of you, far and wide, the very best of everything in 1998!
Love,
Jym
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 10:21:24 +0100
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: BRION GYSIN (WAS Re: Permutation poems)
In-Reply-To: <da18fc3c.34a97634@aol.com>
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At 17.31 30/12/97 EST, Aeronwytru <Aeronwytru@AOL.COM> wrote:
>what the heck is a permutation poem? help! i really don't know very much
about
>this sort of stuff and i hate not knowing things. can someone tell me what it
>is in non-technical (read---> layman's) terms and send me a copy of one?
>thanks so much.
>
here an example by brion gysin
http://switch.sjsu.edu/switch/sound/articles/wendt/folder4/ngbg1.htm
RUB OUT THE WRITE WORD
RUB OUT RIGHT WORD THEE
RUB OUT WORD RITE THEE
RUB OUT THE WORD RIGHT
RUB OUT RIGHT THE WORD
RUB OUT WORD THEE WRITE
RUB OUT THE WORD RIGHT OUT
RUB THE RIGHT OUT WORD
RUB THE OUT WORD RIGHT
WORD OUT RIGHT
RIGHT WORD OUT
OUT RIGHT WORD
RUB WORD RIGHT OUT THE
RUB WORD OUT RIGHT THE
RUB WORD THE RIGHT OUT
RIGHT THE OUT
OUT THE RIGHT
THE OUT RIGHT
WORD RUB THE RIGHT OUT
RUB RIGHT OUT THE
OUT RIGHT THE
THE OUT RIGHT
RIGHT THE OUT
OUT THE RIGHT
WORD RIGHT RUB THE OUT
THE
OUT
RUB
THE
OUT
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 09:50:03 +0100
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: BeatSuperNovaUpdated
In-Reply-To: <aa5eb9fe.34aabde5@aol.com>
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Buon 1 gennaio 1988,
thanks a lot for yr comments. they remain in my memory.
"My works comprises one vast book like
Proust's except that my remembrances are
written on the run instead of afterwards in
a sick bed."---JACK KEROUAC
saluti a tutti voi da
Rinaldo.
---------------------
At 16.49 31/12/97 EST, Aeronwytru <Aeronwytru@AOL.COM> wrote:
>maybe i missed him, but i don't remember seeing rimbaud on there. i think he
>deserves to be on there as much as any of those people. and what about marcel
>proust? saroyan?
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 11:56:25 EST
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Hpark4 <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Fact, fiction, flags and Mudd
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The other night I watched the series on the 1950's (on tape) presented by the
History Channel. Overall, quite interesting. It was loosely based on David
Halberstam's book, The Fifties.
The next to last segment of the eight hour series focused on Elvis, and on the
Beat Generation. Pretty good stuff - interviews with Joyce Johnson and Allen
Ginsberg among others. At the very end of the segment, host Roger Mudd
commented that Kerouac differed from many of the Beats because he
disassociated himself from the "rampant anti-Americanism of the 1960's". Then
he added, "Kerouac appeared at a rally where Allen Ginsberg was passing out
American flags to be burned. Kerouac retreved the flags and neatly folded
them."
!! W H A T !! This is pure bullshit that Mudd probably heard at a right-wing
cocktail party and then passed on, via national television, to millions of
people. None of the many biographers (about 10) of Kerouac or Ginsberg ever
described anything like this flag burning rally. Instead, the source for
Mudd's fantasy undoubtedly is the often described incedent when Ken Kesey and
the Merry Pranksters paid Kerouac a visit in 1964. Amidst the partying of the
Pranksters, Kerouac did notice an American flag lying around (perhaps the
floor, or on a chair or couch). The flag was probably being used as a scarf
or cape by one of the colorful Pranksters, something that was uncommon in
1964. Kerouac considered this disrespectful and he did neatly fold the flag
and set it aside. He left shortly thereafter and was never a fan of the
Pranksters. Various biographers have different spins on the incident, but
what the foregoing is pretty much the consensus as reported by eyewitnesses.
I don't know if Allen Ginsberg ever was into burning flags. I doubt it, given
his lifelong sense for PR and the fact that flag burning was outlawed until
the 1980's.
What should be outlawed (not that it is possible to outlaw stupidity) is
highly paid "reporters" like Mudd who have less regard for the facts than used
toilet paper. He can spin history anyway he wants but to report an incident
based on sheer fantasy is something else entirely.
Does anyone know where I could write Mudd, Halberstam, or the History
Channel?
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 19:02:20 +0100
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: afternoon blues today
In-Reply-To: <aa5eb9fe.34aabde5@aol.com>
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i called you at 11 pm
(sure)
the cold (of course)
persons
don't know
the sound is an antithief device
than
a carol
be happy! BE HAPPY!!
---
rinaldo
31thdec98
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 11:00:44 +0000
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Sorry
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Bentz--Happy new year. What did I warn you about? You are welcome to
all the bandwidth you ant!
James
R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
> Sorry
>
> I knew it.
> James warned me.
> But anyway,
> I still blew it.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 10:51:35 PST
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: marie countyman <mcountyman@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: happy holidays and a good year to all
Content-Type: text/plain
hi all:
my 1998 is going to be a kickass one, it is starting out, or i should
say it started back in 87 when i got off the train and leon was there to
greet me!
adventures abound.
expect some stuff after i get home. whhooooeeee.
marie
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 11:03:41 +0000
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: BeatSuperNovaUpdated
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> AT that rate why not Villon?
How far to extend this is Rinaldo's problem, thank god
James
> At 16.49 31/12/97 EST, Aeronwytru <Aeronwytru@AOL.COM> wrote:
> >maybe i missed him, but i don't remember seeing rimbaud on there. i think he
> >deserves to be on there as much as any of those people. and what about marcel
> >proust? saroyan?
> >
> >
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 11:01:28 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: marie countyman <mcountyman@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: ho ho holicay
Content-Type: text/plain
dear patricia, we will keep the hugs rolling. leon here too - lots of
hugging to do.
the best of the best to you!
mc
>
>I am envious of you all, getting together in calif , sherri give marie
a
>hug, james, give sherri a hug. etc. my self i usually don't hug but
if
>i see david on his way back to salina i will give him a hug. We have
>been warned to watch out for beat zen signs so, i will watch out, eager
>always to advance the warpage of an old religion. I am not sure that i
>see zen in catholicism but it is probaly every and nowhere. so also i
>will watch out in case jacks catholic whims start invading my
>conciousness.
>kick your heels
>patricia
>
______________________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 14:59:02 -0500
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Czarnecki <peent@SERVTECH.COM>
Subject: Re: happy holidays and a good year to all
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>hi all:
>my 1998 is going to be a kickass one, it is starting out, or i should
>say it started back in 87 when i got off the train and leon was there to
>greet me!
>adventures abound.
>expect some stuff after i get home. whhooooeeee.
>marie
Did you notice you wrote 87 in the above? Now, I know you haven't been out
there 10 years already! As for myself, I keep seeing 1998 and thinking
that's not right, it's supposed to be 88.
Yes, a year full of adventure, creativity and growth for everyone!
Michael
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 15:20:06 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: NICO 88 <NICO88@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Fact, fiction, flags and Mudd
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Howard---
im sure the Hist.Channel has email, ya know? like,
"comments@historychannel.com" or something. perhapsjust watch for their
advertisements or something. not too hard to find, im sure. that was the 1
episode i missed of that series. :(
-Ginny
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 15:37:42 -0500
Reply-To: blackj@bigmagic.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Al Aronowitz <blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>
Subject: Re: Question
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R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
> Jack Kerouac and Thomas Wolfe have been criticized for being story
> tellers, or just writing down what happened. It seems to me that there
> is a large element of fiction involved, more than most would like to
> see, but it all is based on reality.
>
> My question is this, my life and the lifes of most people I know have
> some exciting moments, but generally are full of daily routine. If
> Jack's work is mostly autobiographical, that is actually just telling
> what happened, wouldn't that take a writer of greater statute to be able
> to make everyday life so full, so true and such an inspiration. I think
> it would, because he would have to actually see, and not imagine. What
> do you think?
>
> --
>
> Peace,
>
> Bentz
> bocelts@scsn.net
> http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
BENTZ: It's taken me a long time to reply to this E but of course Jack
was a great writer who could endow his words with magic. And what's
wrong with being a story-teller. Our greatest writers are nothing but
story-tellers. I'd rather read a story than a stock proposal. I know
Jack wrote what he saw and felt. He had the same kind of dedication to
truth that I now have. --Al
--
***************************************
Al Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 15:48:57 -0500
Reply-To: blackj@bigmagic.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Al Aronowitz <blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg interview
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R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
> I don't recall seeing this posted to the Beat-L before, but I thought
> this was a cool discussion of Dylan's impact on Allen by Allen. Notice
> that darned ole Charles Plymell was right in the middle of this thing.
> I got this off an old post to the Dylan list.
>
> > Q: Can you tell us how you met Bob Dylan and
> > what your earliest impressions of him were?
> >
> > AG: My earliest impressions of Dylan were, uh,
> > on returning from India... My earliest
> > impressions of Dylan were, on returning from
> > India via San Francisco, a young poet, Charlie
> > Plimel[?], took me aside at a party in Belinas[?]
> > and played me some records from a new young
> > singer, folk singer, and it was the "Masters of
> > War," I think, and "I'll Stand," uh, "I'll Know
> > My Song Well Before I Start Singing," and "I'll
> > Stand on the Sea Where All Can Reflect or
> > Mountain Where All Can Reflect It." And I was
> > really amazed. It seemed to me that the torch
> > had been passed, sort of, from, uh, Kerouac or
> > from the, uh, beat, uh, genius on to another
> > generation completely, who had taken it, uh, and
> > he'd taken it and made something completely
> > original out of it, and that life was in good
> > hands. I remember bursting into tears. Because
> > the, uh, proclamation of confidence was so
> > certain and, uh, the, uh, humility was apparent,
> > and at the same time the confidence in, uh, his
> > own voice or his own inspiration, which is, I
> > think, some of the secret of genius which is, uh,
> > like in Whitman: "I celebrate myself and sing
> > myself. What I shall assume, you shall assume."
> > That confidence of self-acceptance, or
> > self-empowerment, the empowerment. Uh, so I
> > heard just that first record, and I was pretty
> > amazed by it. Then, uh, cause, you know, we had
> > learned from earlier people. I had learned from
> > William Carlos Williams and William Burroughs,
> > who was much older, and, uh, every generation
> > produces its own spontaneous genius, sort of. So
> > it seemed to me that somebody had emerged with
> > their own, out of cocoon, with their own life,
> > with their own scepter, so to speak. Then, uh, I
> > got to New York with Peter Orlovsky, and we were
> > staying at the, it's, uh, above, upstairs from
> > the Eighth Street Bookstore, which was at that
> > time a big, interesting, intelligent bookstore, Uh, really
> > admirable -for, for, for journalism it was a
> > really well-researched and even piece at a time
> > when, uh, the notion, the journalistic idea was
> > beatniks, it was cockroaches, and, uh, dirty
> > houses and uh, some idiot, uh, media idea
> > ignoring the literature and ignoring the actual
> > brilliance of the people like Kerouac or
> > Burroughs or Gary Snyder or others. So in '59,
> > Aronowitz had written a very good series. And
> > he'd actually gone to the West Coast, interviewed
> > Michael McClure, Neal Cassidy, uh, the poet Gary
> > Snyder I think, or friends of Snyder, Snyder was
> > in Japan. Maybe Philip Whalen he saw and uh,
> > McClure turned him on to some grass which
> > enriched his account of, uh, serialized account
> > of the poets. So Aronowitz I had known for four
> > or five years and Aronowitz brought Dylan to a
> > welcome party. Peter and I had been around the
> > world actually and spent a year and a half in
> > India. And I'd spent some time in Japan in a Zen
> > setting with Gary Snyder and then come back to a
> > big poetry conference in Vancouver and then spent
> > time in San Francisco, heard Dylan on the radio,
> > on the phonograph and then got to New York, got a
> > welcome home party and that was the night that
> > Dylan had come from the Emergency Civil Liberties
> > Committee banquet and had renounced any role as
> > sort of a political prophet for them, and that is
> > a left wing, uh, what, folk, uh, fighter for
> > causes. I don't think he wanted to be limited to
> > that view and that perspective. And so I
> > remember coming up the stairs and meeting him and
> > I was really interested, because I'd seen, heard
> > his language. And he was kind of mysterious, but
> > one of the first things he said is he had
> > explained, uh, uh, he had not obeyed what their
> > idea was and they were shocked and horrified.
> > But he felt that he had to make his own statement
> > and have his own independence rather than being a
> > replica of, uh, folk song hero, conforming to
> > their expectations as somebody in, responding to
> > every civil liberties case, every case of
> > discrimination, every strike, the traditional
> > sing outs, folk music, left wing party line. And
> > I thought it was pretty smart of him, though, he
> > may have not had the skillful means to do it in
> > which a way that encouraged them to do what they
> > wanted to do
> >
>
> --
>
> Peace,
>
> Bentz
> bocelts@scsn.net
> http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
BENTZ: Yeah, I was t he invisible man in those days, working behind the
scenes to pull everyone of like minds together. I was invisible so they
all overlooked me, took me for granted and eventually were too quick to
write me off. --Al
--
***************************************
Al Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 17:07:47 -0500
Reply-To: "eastwind@erols.com"@erols.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "D. Patrick Hornberger" <"eastwind@erols.com"@EROLS.COM>
Organization: EASTWIND PUBLISHING
Subject: Re: Fact, fiction, flags and Mudd
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Hpark4 wrote:
>
> The other night I watched the series on the 1950's (on tape) presented by the
> History Channel. Overall, quite interesting. It was loosely based on David
> Halberstam's book, The Fifties.
>
> The next to last segment of the eight hour series focused on Elvis, and on the
> Beat Generation. Pretty good stuff - interviews with Joyce Johnson and Allen
> Ginsberg among others. At the very end of the segment, host Roger Mudd
> commented that Kerouac differed from many of the Beats because he
> disassociated himself from the "rampant anti-Americanism of the 1960's". Then
> he added, "Kerouac appeared at a rally where Allen Ginsberg was passing out
> American flags to be burned. Kerouac retreved the flags and neatly folded
> them."
>
> !! W H A T !! This is pure bullshit that Mudd probably heard at a right-wing
> cocktail party and then passed on, via national television, to millions of
> people. None of the many biographers (about 10) of Kerouac or Ginsberg ever
> described anything like this flag burning rally. Instead, the source for
> Mudd's fantasy undoubtedly is the often described incedent when Ken Kesey and
> the Merry Pranksters paid Kerouac a visit in 1964. Amidst the partying of the
> Pranksters, Kerouac did notice an American flag lying around (perhaps the
> floor, or on a chair or couch). The flag was probably being used as a scarf
> or cape by one of the colorful Pranksters, something that was uncommon in
> 1964. Kerouac considered this disrespectful and he did neatly fold the flag
> and set it aside. He left shortly thereafter and was never a fan of the
> Pranksters. Various biographers have different spins on the incident, but
> what the foregoing is pretty much the consensus as reported by eyewitnesses.
>
> I don't know if Allen Ginsberg ever was into burning flags. I doubt it, given
> his lifelong sense for PR and the fact that flag burning was outlawed until
> the 1980's.
>
> What should be outlawed (not that it is possible to outlaw stupidity) is
> highly paid "reporters" like Mudd who have less regard for the facts than used
> toilet paper. He can spin history anyway he wants but to report an incident
> based on sheer fantasy is something else entirely.
>
> Does anyone know where I could write Mudd, Halberstam, or the History
> Channel?
>
> Howard Park
Hold On --it seems to me Ginsberg told that story some place --- I would
be careful drawing quick conclusions on JK when it come to
Patriotism--actually the event and JK's response sounds like him---
anti-patriotism was not a paert of beats ---anti-government was.
Let me know if you find the Ginsberg reference
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 17:23:56 EST
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From: Bigsurs4me <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Fact, fiction, flags and Mudd
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Steve Turner's Angel Headed Hipster on page 200 has a few photo's of Jack
wearing the flag bandana around his neck while smoking a joint and looking
very goofy and out of it. The photo is credited to Ron Bevirt who I believe
was one of the Pranksters and is dated June 1964, New York. In one of the
photo's you can see what appears to be a movie camera on a tri-pod. As Kesey
filmed a lot of that trip I wonder if video exists of that party?
Jerry Cimino
Fog City
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 17:25:41 EST
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From: Aeronwytru <Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>
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Subject: Re: Some Dharma 1997
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i didn't mean that the monks' chants were humourous, but that it was a funny
coincidence that i heard about it from you right after i had just heard about
it on the news.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 17:41:51 EST
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Subject: Re: Question
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i don't understand why they should be criticized for being strytellers or
'just writing down the facts'. both of those are good things.the ability to
tell a good story is great for the heart head and bottom line.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 17:59:45 -0500
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From: mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Some Dharma 1997
In-Reply-To: <v0311070ab0d0cd18d7e4@[156.46.45.120]>
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I saw a picture of a monk heaving fish into the sea. I
like the verisimilitude of it. A few foul off the earth,
a few fish cast into the sea. The monks had the right idea.
It adds a funny twist to an already somewhat funny story, of
orientals driven into a chicken-killing frenzy by a malignant
disease that is threatening their lives! To add a religious
element to this is to put icing on the cake.
Mike Rice
At 11:36 PM 12/31/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>I am not real sure i see the humor in the monks chanting for the souls of
the
>>chickens. Explain, please?
>> GT
>
>Wish I could provide more details, but my understanding is that the monks
>released many, many fish back into the sea as a spiritual attonment for the
>slaughtering of the chickens. Read a note that they released a ship's catch
>of fish. Many hundreds of them.
>
>Here in Madison it will be 1998 in 20 minutes.
>
>My best to you all in the new year.
>
>Peace and justice,
>
>j grant
>
> HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES
> Details on-line at
> http://www.bookzen.com
> 625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 17:54:52 EST
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From: Hpark4 <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Fact, fiction, flags and Mudd
Comments: cc: eastwind@erols.com
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In response to Mr. Hornberger -
The point is pretty simple. The incident Mr. Mudd described never happened.
Period. Whet people make up or repeat stories that are untrue, for political
or other purposes, they should be held up to ridicule.
It is quite a stretch to equate the real episide - Kerouac's respect for the
flag he found at the Prankster party, with what Mudd described "Ginsberg was
at a rally passing out American flags to be burned..." The two situations are
very, very different.
The real point of Mudd's fantasy is a very political one. Mudd equates the
anti-war and counter-cultural movements with anti-americanism. That still
resonates on many of the issues of today. Certain right-wingers also accused
George McGovern, Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton of flag burning - without
any evidence whatsoever. None. Burning the flag is an anti-american action,
a very powerful symbolic action, especially for older generations. What Mudd
was trying to get accross was that Allen Ginsberg, who can no longer speak for
himself, was some sort of flag burning commie. That is simply untrue.
Ginsberg had the honor of being kicked out of Cuba and communist
Czechoslovakia. Ginsberg loved America every bit as much as Kerouac, although
AG was undoubtedly way to the left of Kerouac and the American mainstream.
Again, I've read all the major bios of Kerouac, one of the most extensively
researched figures of the recent past. Nothing like the incident Mudd
described is in any of the bios. Facts and truth do matter.
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 18:44:24 -0500
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Fact, fiction, flags and Mudd
In-Reply-To: <3b18a2f9.34abcabb@aol.com>
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Sure, I wrote something like www.historychannel.com and said
I loved the Fifties. I'm a little worried that you say you saw
the Fifties the other day, since my own TV schedule said they
were running the whole 8 hours today (Thurs) from 11 a.m. to
7 p.m. today. I'm taping it while we speak. I have heard
the story about Kerouac and the flag somewhere, also. I
probably heard Mudd tell the story you find untrue. Jack
wasn't a hippie, nor was he on the Bus. I don't think it
hurts his legacy that he did not want to party with Wavy
Gravy.
Mike Rice
At 11:56 AM 1/1/98 EST, you wrote:
>The other night I watched the series on the 1950's (on tape) presented by
the
>History Channel. Overall, quite interesting. It was loosely based on David
>Halberstam's book, The Fifties.
>
>The next to last segment of the eight hour series focused on Elvis, and on
the
>Beat Generation. Pretty good stuff - interviews with Joyce Johnson and Allen
>Ginsberg among others. At the very end of the segment, host Roger Mudd
>commented that Kerouac differed from many of the Beats because he
>disassociated himself from the "rampant anti-Americanism of the 1960's".
Then
>he added, "Kerouac appeared at a rally where Allen Ginsberg was passing out
>American flags to be burned. Kerouac retreved the flags and neatly folded
>them."
>
>!! W H A T !! This is pure bullshit that Mudd probably heard at a right-wing
>cocktail party and then passed on, via national television, to millions of
>people. None of the many biographers (about 10) of Kerouac or Ginsberg ever
>described anything like this flag burning rally. Instead, the source for
>Mudd's fantasy undoubtedly is the often described incedent when Ken Kesey and
>the Merry Pranksters paid Kerouac a visit in 1964. Amidst the partying of
the
>Pranksters, Kerouac did notice an American flag lying around (perhaps the
>floor, or on a chair or couch). The flag was probably being used as a scarf
>or cape by one of the colorful Pranksters, something that was uncommon in
>1964. Kerouac considered this disrespectful and he did neatly fold the flag
>and set it aside. He left shortly thereafter and was never a fan of the
>Pranksters. Various biographers have different spins on the incident, but
>what the foregoing is pretty much the consensus as reported by eyewitnesses.
>
>I don't know if Allen Ginsberg ever was into burning flags. I doubt it,
given
>his lifelong sense for PR and the fact that flag burning was outlawed until
>the 1980's.
>
>What should be outlawed (not that it is possible to outlaw stupidity) is
>highly paid "reporters" like Mudd who have less regard for the facts than
used
>toilet paper. He can spin history anyway he wants but to report an incident
>based on sheer fantasy is something else entirely.
>
>Does anyone know where I could write Mudd, Halberstam, or the History
>Channel?
>
>Howard Park
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 19:41:51 -0500
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At 05:41 PM 1/1/98 EST, you wrote:
>i don't understand why they should be criticized for being strytellers or
>'just writing down the facts'. both of those are good things.the ability to
>tell a good story is great for the heart head and bottom line.
>
>
Who is being cricized for being a storyteller.
Mike Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 20:06:25 -0500
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From: "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: Permutation poems (fwd)
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This was Florian's response, which I think people might find interesting.
Neil
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 17:13:01 +0100 (MET)
From: Florian Cramer <cantsin@zedat.fu-berlin.de>
To: "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: Permutation poems
On Tue, 30 Dec 1997, Neil M. Hennessy wrote:
> There are Gysin permutation poems in _The Exterminator_, which was
> published in 1960:
>
> TITLE: The exterminator / William Burroughs, Brion Gysin. -
> IMPRINT: San Francisco : Auerhahn Press, 1960.
> NOTES: Narrative and poems. * Poems and calligraphs by Brion Gysin.
> LANGUAGE: eng
> PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION: 51 p. : ill. ; 24 cm.
> ASSOCIATED NAME(S): Gysin, Brion. * Haselwood, Dave L. - Book designer. *
> Haselwood, Dave L. - Printer. * McIlroy, James F. - Printer. *
> Auerhahn Press - Private Press.
Thanks very much for this reference. I will check out immediately whether
I can get it here in Berlin.
>
> Can you give a reference where I could find information about this?
> The first book Burroughs wrote/assembled using fold-in texts-- _The Soft
> Machine_ -- appeared in 1961 from The Olympia Press in Paris.
Then I was mistaken. Marc Saporta's novel "Composition No.1" appeared in
1962, Paris, Editions du Seuil.
> Certainly does. The 100,000 sonnet book gets a lot of attention from
> people doing work on hypertext theory and literature. And yes, both
> Burroughs and Gysin were living in Paris in the early 60's.
I know there has been a lot of research on Oulipo (=Queneau, Perec et.al.)
combinatorics, but I wonder whether anyone has researched yet the
interrelatedness of Gysin's/Burroughs', Saporta's, Queneau's and Moles'
approaches to combinatory literature which all happened to be
conceptualized around 1960 and in France.
By the way, permutation poetry itself is much older than this. The
earliest examples date back to the late Roman empire (Publilius Optatianus
Porfyrius' Carmen XXV consists of five lines with each five words; the
words permute against each other and from line to line. Porfyrius lived in
the around 330 A.D.; his complete poems are published in a two volume
book: Pvblilii Optatiani Porfyrii, Carmina, Torino: Paravia publ., 1973.)
> Hope I've been of some assistance.
>
Thanks a lot for your help!
Florian
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 20:09:16 -0500
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From: "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: Permutation poems
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On Tue, 30 Dec 1997, Aeronwytru wrote:
> what the heck is a permutation poem? help! i really don't know very much about
> this sort of stuff and i hate not knowing things. can someone tell me what it
> is in non-technical (read---> layman's) terms and send me a copy of one?
> thanks so much.
The easiest way to find out what a permutation poem is to read one. Here's
a Gysin permutation poem that appears in The Exterminator:
RUB OUT THE WORDS
RUB OUT THE
WORDS RUB OUT
THE WORDS RUB
OUT THE WORDS
RUB OUT THE WORDS
RUB THE WORDS OUT
RUB WORDS THEE OUT
RUB OUT WORDS THEE
RUB THE OUT WORDS
RUB WORDS OUT THEE
OUT THE WORDS RUB
OUT WORDS RUB THEE
OUT RUB WORDS THEE
OUT THEE RUB WORDS
OUT WORDS RUB THEE
OUT RUB THE WORDS
THE WORDS RUB OUT
THEE RUB WORDS OUT
THE OUT RUB WORDS
THE WORDS OUT RUB
THE RUB OUT WORDS
THE OUT WORDS RUB
WORDS RUB OUT THEE
WORDS OUT RUT THEE
WORDS THEE OUT RUB
WORDS RUB THEE OUT
WORDS OUT THEE RUB
WORDS THEE RUB OUT
Brion Gysin
And here's my favourite poem of this genre, which isn't really a
permutation poem per se, but a combninatorial one at the letter level. It
appeared in Nichol's first book bp from Coach House, 1967:
turnips are
inturps are
urnspit are
tinspur are
rustpin are
stunrip are
piturns are
ritpuns are
punstir are
nutrips are
suntrip are
untrips are
spinrut are
runspit are
pitnurs are
runtsip are
puntsir are
turnsip are
tipruns are
turpsin are
spurtin
bpNichol
Although the modus operandi and overriding concerns of Burroughs/Gysin and
the concretists are often strikingly similar, their aims are widely
disparate. For Burroughs the word is a viral agent of control, and
language its medium of exchange. Cut-ups, collage, and gestural
calligraphy were all attempts at finding freedom outside of language, a
non-linguistic freedom in silence. Nichol was a self-professed lover of
language and alphabet fetishist with an interest in language at play in
all its forms: aural, semantic, tonal, visual. His work is more
investigative, irreverent and celebratory, while Burroughs was deadly
serious and perceived his work as dangerous, urgent and combative.
Just some random thoughts on different, compelling artists whose central
concern was language itself.
Cheers,
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 20:17:51 -0500
Reply-To: "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@uwaterloo.ca>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: Permutation poems
Comments: cc: Florian Cramer <cantsin@zedat.fu-berlin.de>
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I've done a little looking into the permutation poems of Brion Gysin in
the source materials I have. Here is a preliminary report:
>From Ted Morgan's "Literary Outlaw": "Minutes to Go" was published in
March 1960 in Paris and included permutation poems by Gysin. The only
specific one mentioned is "Rub out the Word." I don't have Minutes to Go,
so I can't tell you what else is there.
I do have a copy of "The Exterminator", published later in 1960. It
contains poems that permute the phrases "WHO SENDS THE MAN?", "KICK THAT
HABIT MAN", "JUNK IS NO GOOD BABY", "CAN MOTHER BE WRONG?", "SHORT TIME TO
GO", "IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD", "RUB OUT THE WORDS", and "PROCLAIM
PRESENT TIME OVER". After the Rub out the Words permutation poem, there is
another poem also called Rub out the Words, which is laid out identically
with the first, but uses typographic symbols instead of words, where
rub = #, out = $, the = %, words = &. The book closes with the straight
Rub out the Word poem, then the typographic symbol poem, then "Proclaim
Present Time Over", and finishes with 4 Gysin calligraphic works, which
are gestural permutations of calligraphic strokes. The idea, as far as I
can tell, is that Gysin rubs out the word by first permutating phrases so
that they lose any singular meaning, becoming merely an arrangement
yielding polysemous underpinnings when mixed; and secondly by a semiotic
shift to typographic symbols, which shifts the signifier/signified
relationship from letter-phonetic based representations with their aural
basis to a purely visual sign. The word is finally rubbed out when words
are lost to calligraphy without meaning, writing without communication,
signifiers without a signified.
>From the Brion Gysin CD "Mektoub": "In 1960 Gysin was asked to present
sound works for a broadcast on the BBC. Among those recorded for the event
were 'i am that i am', 'recalling all active agents', and the 'pistol
poem' which differed by permutating recordings of a gun firing from
varying distances." All three BBC recordings from 1960 appear on the CD.
The two poems with words start with Gysin reading the permutated poems,
and then the reading itself is permutated by tape splices, speed-ups and
slow downs. The CD was produced by Perdition Plastics 4216 N.Damen Chicago
Il 60618 USA Fax 312.327.3887
I have a chap-book called "A William Burroughs Birthday Book" (1994,
Temple Press, ISBN 1-871744-90-3) that has two relevant essays/stories.
One is called "William Burroughs: a biological mistake" by Simon Strong.
He briefly mentions the connection between Gysin/Burroughs and Oulipo as a
topic worthy of further investigation: "The very least that Mr [Martin]
Gardner deserves is a mention here since it is my express intention to
shamelessly plagiarize the vast majority of this essay from his 1952 book
'(Fads and Fallacies) in the Name of Science'. Mr Gardner and his work
were, and still are, highly regarded by the members of Oulipo, the Ouvroir
de Litterature Potentielle. This was a circle of literary experimenters
founded in Paris in 1960 which would appear to have a number of
culture-spatial co-ordinates in common with Mr. Burroughs as well as
sharing geographical and chronological criteria. To my knowledge the one
has never passed comment on the other, nor vice-versa. If anyone reading
this essay has any ideas or information concerning this matter I would be
most interested to be a party to it."
There is another essay/story called "Nothing is True. Everything is
Permuted: The Last Words of Hassan I Sabbah" by Paul Cecil that is of
interest. The entire piece is an exploration of Gysin's thoughts on
permutations, drawing from many sources, most notably "The Process" and
"Here to Go". This is a must read. Paul Cecil then goes on to include
permutation poems using Gysin/Burroughs phrases and a formula of his own
devising. The chap-book was edited by Paul Cecil and has this in the
Biographical Notes:
"For a full catalogue of all Temple Press publications, or to contact any
of the contributors to this project, please send an s.a.e or International
Reply Coupon to:
Temple Press, PO Box 227, Brighton, Sussex BN2 3GL.
(Phone: 0273 679129 / Fax: 0273 621284)"
The book "Here to Go: Planet R101" has 6 listings under "permutations" in
the index, and from the number of references Cecil made in his essay, it
sounds like "The Process" will have many more. Here to Go also includes a
Gysin permutation poem that permutes the line
"ADEBC 14523 .$#-("
in three columns all the way down the page.
Please feel free to contact me for any clarifications, or if you have
specific questions about any of the books listed above that I have (Here
to Go, The Exterminator, A William Burroughs Birthday Book).
Cheers,
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 20:22:00 -0500
Reply-To: "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@uwaterloo.ca>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: Permutation poems
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.3.96.971227210531.18998A-100000@komma.fddi2.fu-berlin.de>
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One thing I forgot to mention when I posted the Gysin permutation poem
from The Exterminator-- There was a very interesting typo that was in the
second line of the "WORD" stanza in the original that I reproduced:
[snip]
WORDS RUB OUT THEE
WORDS OUT RUT THEE
WORDS THEE OUT RUB
WORDS RUB THEE OUT
WORDS OUT THEE RUB
WORDS THEE RUB OUT
[snip]
A lot of interesting conclusions can be drawn from that one!
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 20:29:17 -0500
Reply-To: "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@uwaterloo.ca>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: Permutation poems
In-Reply-To: <da18fc3c.34a97634@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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One thing I forgot to mention when I posted the Gysin permutation poem
from The Exterminator--there was a very interesting typo that was in the
second line of the "WORD" stanza in the original that I reproduced
faithfully:
[snip]
WORDS RUB OUT THEE
WORDS OUT RUT THEE
WORDS THEE OUT RUB
WORDS RUB THEE OUT
WORDS OUT THEE RUB
WORDS THEE RUB OUT
[snip]
A lot of interesting conclusions can be drawn from that one, and as
Burroughs always said, there's no such thing as a coincidence.
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 20:38:36 -0500
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Re: Question
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I think that goes back to an old post that I made. The point was that "critics"
were critical of Thomas Wolfe and Jack Kerouac for "just being storytellers or
reporters" and lacking originality. Al Aronowitz made a belated reply saying
that it didn't matter that writers were just story tellers anyway and that Jack
pursued the truth. I belive the post that you refer to was merely stating that
the critics were wrong or unfair.
But if a thread were to get started on the writer as reporter/story teller, I
think it could prove interesting.
mike rice wrote:
> At 05:41 PM 1/1/98 EST, you wrote:
> >i don't understand why they should be criticized for being strytellers or
> >'just writing down the facts'. both of those are good things.the ability to
> >tell a good story is great for the heart head and bottom line.
> >
> >
> Who is being cricized for being a storyteller.
>
> Mike Rice
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 18:03:52 +0000
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Question
MIME-Version: 1.0
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<HTML>
Bentz and all
<P>This may be an old thread that I just rediscovered in Mr. Aronowitz's
response to it. I would argue that while JK and TW write very much
about "real life" they select away the daily drugery or compress it to
focus on the more interesting aspects of that life. Were they to
have kept an hour by hour record of those lives they would no doubt be
still wonderfully rendered, but a good deal nearer to the ordinariness
of our own.
<P>James Stauffer
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
<BR>.
<BR>>
<BR>> My question is this, my life and the lifes of most people I know
have
<BR>> some exciting moments, but generally are full of daily routine.
If
<BR>> Jack's work is mostly autobiographical, that is actually just telling
<BR>> what happened, wouldn't that take a writer of greater statute to
be able
<BR>> to make everyday life so full, so true and such an inspiration.
I think
<BR>> it would, because he would have to actually see, and not imagine.
What
<BR>> do you think?
<BR><A HREF="http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj"></A> </BLOCKQUOTE>
</HTML>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 18:06:41 +0000
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Fact, fiction, flags and Mudd
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Jerry
I am quite sure that film of the event is probably in the Pranskter archive.
You
might check the Kesey website to see if it is available on video.
James
Bigsurs4me wrote:
> Steve Turner's Angel Headed Hipster on page 200 has a few photo's of Jack
> wearing the flag bandana around his neck while smoking a joint and looking
> very goofy and out of it. The photo is credited to Ron Bevirt who I believe
> was one of the Pranksters and is dated June 1964, New York. In one of the
> photo's you can see what appears to be a movie camera on a tri-pod. As Kesey
> filmed a lot of that trip I wonder if video exists of that party?
>
> Jerry Cimino
> Fog City
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 18:00:20 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: marie countyman <mcountyman@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Fact, fiction, flags and Mudd
Content-Type: text/plain
h hey, hello jerry. found yr email online. if things are possible for
visit, please give a holler to countyman@hotmail.com.\would really like
to get in touch with you. in frisco and then redwoods until some time
monday. don't leave until 15. reading on the 8th. get in touch and yes,
everyone here, thanks for the use of the bandwidth.
mc
>From owner-beat-l@cunyvm.cuny.edu Thu Jan 1 14:28:28 1998
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>Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 17:23:56 EST
>Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From: Bigsurs4me <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
>Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
>Subject: Re: Fact, fiction, flags and Mudd
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>Steve Turner's Angel Headed Hipster on page 200 has a few photo's of
Jack
>wearing the flag bandana around his neck while smoking a joint and
looking
>very goofy and out of it. The photo is credited to Ron Bevirt who I
believe
>was one of the Pranksters and is dated June 1964, New York. In one of
the
>photo's you can see what appears to be a movie camera on a tri-pod. As
Kesey
>filmed a lot of that trip I wonder if video exists of that party?
>
>Jerry Cimino
>Fog City
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 08:29:17 -0600
Reply-To: cawilkie@comic.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cathy Wilkie <cawilkie@COMIC.NET>
Subject: Re: the fifties series on History channel
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>
> What should be outlawed (not that it is possible to outlaw stupidity) is
> highly paid "reporters" like Mudd who have less regard for the facts than used
> toilet paper. He can spin history anyway he wants but to report an incident
> based on sheer fantasy is something else entirely.
>
> Does anyone know where I could write Mudd, Halberstam, or the History
> Channel?
>
> Howard Park
howard:
You may want to see if you can find out who the writer/director was of
the series, he may be more responsible for said error than mr. Mudd.
Mr. Mudd is a reporter, most of the time just reading what someone else
writes for him. He's got the talented face and voice, and more than
likely was just used as a 'talking head' for the series. Don't blame
him, blame the newswriters and the fact checkers (if there were any).
And once again, another fine example on why I did not go into journalism
as a career.
cathy
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 08:32:15 -0600
Reply-To: cawilkie@comic.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cathy Wilkie <cawilkie@COMIC.NET>
Subject: marie's overly-long stay in california
Comments: To: mcountyman@hotmail.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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>
> Subject:
> happy holidays and a good year to all
> Date:
> Thu, 1 Jan 1998 10:51:35 PST
> From:
> marie countyman <mcountyman@HOTMAIL.COM>
>
>
> hi all:
> my 1998 is going to be a kickass one, it is starting out, or i should
> say it started back in 87 when i got off the train and leon was there to
> greet me!
> adventures abound.
> expect some stuff after i get home. whhooooeeee.
> marie
So, marie,
am I to understand that you've been living at Leon's since 1987??????
So, Leon, how has it felt to have marie around for eleven years????
(Just kidding guys)
cathy
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 07:41:50 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: Elm Street in Tempe
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Public thanks to Jo Grant for connecting me with a wonderful couple
Chris and Bil here in the Valley.
A lovely evening spent chatting over coffee and gardens of sound and
thoughts and chili peppers.
heading back to the Heartland tomorrow...will probably be at the
Beat-Hotel in Lawrence by
Sunday night or Monday afternoon.
Isn't 1998 off to a great beginning! It's probably the best 1998 i can
remember
david rhaesa
there will be peace in the valley fa la la la la blah blah blah
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 08:50:54 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: TRICIA PORTER <tporter5@WEBER.EDU>
Subject: Some Dharma 1997 -Reply
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
thanks honey. that is interesting. i'm not sure how freeing fish, will help
the chickens death less painfull. i'll have to read more on this.
love tp
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 08:46:13 +0000
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Some Dharma 1997 -Reply
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1998 and some things never change. Love blooms on the Beat-L and more posters
join the group triple checking their "Reply to" addresses. Just be assured
you
are in good company.
James Stauffer
TRICIA PORTER wrote:
> thanks honey. that is interesting. i'm not sure how freeing fish, will help
> the chickens death less painfull. i'll have to read more on this.
>
> love tp
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 14:48:29 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Zucchini4 <Zucchini4@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Hard to find WSB book
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Hi everybody. Just joined this list, and it is proving to be pretty
interesting. So here's a question I hope you guys could help me w/-
A little while ago, I found a Burroughs book called..... something.... of
course hiding on the wrong shelf of the bookstore so I'd never be able to find
it again. It was very small, had a .... dog?..... on the cover, and if you
turned it over and backwards it was in German. It started out going on about
how "language is a virus" and went on like that. I wish I could remember more,
but it's been a while, and no one else I've checked w/ seems to know.
And while I'm asking- do you guys think that when reading JK books (the
autobiographical novels, I mean) you should follow the chronological order?
I've been wondering about this. I read "Big Sur" after the "Dharma Bums", and
though that's the right order, there's about 4 yrs difference in copyright
dates... I know I missed *something*. I know I *should* read them as seperate
books, but then I always start wondering which name stands for which name, so
I'm not really reading it as fiction anyway.
Oh, and how about Jim Morrison as Beat? He refers to Beat poets a number of
times (although never to himself as one), and influenced Jim Carroll a lot
too.
--Stephanie
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 13:30:32 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: Re: Hard to find WSB book
MIME-Version: 1.0
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i think you're talking about "Electronic Revolution" or something like that.
read it while listening to Captain Beefheart's Safe As Milk
and the virus will feel fairly safe indeed
david rhaesa
soon headed to the Beat-Hotel
Zucchini4 wrote:
> Hi everybody. Just joined this list, and it is proving to be pretty
> interesting. So here's a question I hope you guys could help me w/-
> A little while ago, I found a Burroughs book called..... something.... of
> course hiding on the wrong shelf of the bookstore so I'd never be able to find
> it again. It was very small, had a .... dog?..... on the cover, and if you
> turned it over and backwards it was in German. It started out going on about
> how "language is a virus" and went on like that. I wish I could remember more,
> but it's been a while, and no one else I've checked w/ seems to know.
>
> And while I'm asking- do you guys think that when reading JK books (the
> autobiographical novels, I mean) you should follow the chronological order?
> I've been wondering about this. I read "Big Sur" after the "Dharma Bums", and
> though that's the right order, there's about 4 yrs difference in copyright
> dates... I know I missed *something*. I know I *should* read them as seperate
> books, but then I always start wondering which name stands for which name, so
> I'm not really reading it as fiction anyway.
>
> Oh, and how about Jim Morrison as Beat? He refers to Beat poets a number of
> times (although never to himself as one), and influenced Jim Carroll a lot
> too.
>
> --Stephanie
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 16:39:44 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: DCardKJHS <DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Hard to find WSB book
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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David, You never cease to amaze...you old ZigZagWanderer!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 16:12:33 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: And the Beat Goes On and On--via Tempe, AZ
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
David,
What a pleasure to hear that the folks at 1603 found you as interesting and
charming in person as I have via the List. Perhaps someday our paths will
cross, out there, on the road.
j grant
>
>Dear Joe --
>
>Thank you for introducing us to David Rhaesa! We enjoyed his presence, his
>stories, his perspective, and found much in common.
>
>We introduced David to our phase conjugate model of consciousness. Most
>people find it a bit abstract, but David found it paralleled his thoughts
>on the subject. We provided a few pieces of the puzzle that weren't
>available to Burroughs, Kerouac, Ginsberg, Leary, and Watts. It'll be very
>interesting to see what David does with this material!
>
>We spent 4-1/2 hours together on the Event Horizon, where cultural frames
>of reference dissolve and the barriers between individuals become receptor
>sites for new World Views; where God becomes your Friend, not an abstract
>Court of Judgment.
>
>We gained a sense of our larger kinship beyond Time and Space. David
>arrived as a stranger, but left as an old friend. We fondly remember a
>time when WE first arrived at the front door of 1603 as strangers, and
>found friends. There must be something magical about this place!
>
>David left with a glow, a smile, and some hugs. We and he had some laughs
>with the Universe of Creation.
>
>Thank you, Joe, for your intercession. Once again, you've acted as the
>Divine Novelty Agent you truly are!
>
>Looking forward to sitting around the table with you again!
>
>Love,
>Chris and Bil
>
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 19:14:38 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alex Howard <kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hard to find WSB book
In-Reply-To: <a66ef9e2.34ad448f@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> And while I'm asking- do you guys think that when reading JK books (the
> autobiographical novels, I mean) you should follow the chronological order?
> I've been wondering about this. I read "Big Sur" after the "Dharma Bums", and
> though that's the right order, there's about 4 yrs difference in copyright
> dates... I know I missed *something*. I know I *should* read them as seperate
> books, but then I always start wondering which name stands for which name, so
> I'm not really reading it as fiction anyway.
Well, if you want to be technical, Some of the Dharma should be inserted
and read along with the last half or third of Dharma Bums, then follow
with Desolation Angels. Some of the Dharma was just published this year
so don't go by copyright dates. Maggie Cassidy and Dr. Sax should go
before them all and you should read Visions of Cody while you're
simultaneously reading On the Road. VoC wasn't published until after
Kerouac had died. Its good to read them in some sort of order just so you
can see how his style changed from early on (Town & the City) to later
(Big Sur) -- big differences. And knowing what was happening in his life
lets you know why his style changed. Also, he didn't write his books in
the chronological order of his life. In fact, his later stuff and the
book he started just before he died was about his childhood in Lowell.
So, don't sweat it. Unless you're also as fanatical about the events of
his life and the happenings of the man and his era as we lunatics are,
just read what you can get your hands on. There's a multitude of
writings that haven't seen the light of day since Kerouac himself stuffed
them into his "to do" box also, so you'd be fighting a losing battle.
------------------
Alex Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State University
kh14586@am.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 19:32:31 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: CIRCULATION <breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Fact, fiction, flags and Mudd
Jerry C. I forwarded your question to the Kesey camp. I'm curious too if that
film is still around. Also, I didn't see that apartment listed in Bill Morgan's
Beat Tour book. I think it was on 86th Street in NYC. Does anyone have
specifics? Probably torn down long ago.
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 21:03:05 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Hard to find WSB book
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 02:48 PM 1/2/98 EST, Stephanie wrote:
>Hi everybody. Just joined this list, and it is proving to
>be pretty interesting. So here's a question I hope you
>guys could help me w/- A little while ago, I found
>a Burroughs book called..... something.... of
>course hiding on the wrong shelf of the bookstore
>so I'd never be able to findit again. It was very small,
>had a .... dog?..... on the cover, and if you
>turned it over and backwards it was in German.
Sounds like _The Four Horsemen Of The Apocalypse_.
Published by E.M.E. (Expanded Media Editions).
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 21:19:36 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Floyd Cramer
Comments: To: Hey Joe <hey-joe@gartholamew.com>,
Johnny Winter <jwinter@sicel-home-2-19.urbanet.ch>,
"jjw-l@io.com" <jjw-l@io.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Most here may not care, but an important musical figure passed on New
Year's Eve. Floyd Cramer of "The Nashville Sound" passed. He played
piano on Heartbreak Hotel, which in my book qualifies him for admission
into any Hall of Fame or Olympus. His biggest hit that I know of was
"Last Date."
The newspaper reports that he recorded 50 solo albums and along with
Chet Atkins, and Boots Randolph (He had a great album cover back in the
sixties) created The Nashville Sound that allowed country music to cross
over. He pioneered what is known as the "bent note" or "slip note"
style on the piano, "hitting a note and almost instantly sliding into
the next -- influenced a generation of pianists."
He also played on sessions by Roy Orbison, the Everly Brothers, PATSY
CLINE (a divine and eternal goddess) and Perry Como in addition to the
historic 1955 recordings by Elvis in his first RCA sessions.
We will miss you Floyd. Many didn't know his sound, but if they heard
him play, they would know why so many play like him still.
NP-- The Ballad of Easy Rider (album version)
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 22:39:47 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Glenn Cooper <coopergw@MPX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Hard to find WSB book
In-Reply-To: <199801030203.VAA02922@ionline.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 21:03 02/01/98 -0500, you wrote:
>At 02:48 PM 1/2/98 EST, Stephanie wrote:
>
>>Hi everybody. Just joined this list, and it is proving to
>>be pretty interesting. So here's a question I hope you
>>guys could help me w/- A little while ago, I found
>>a Burroughs book called..... something.... of
>>course hiding on the wrong shelf of the bookstore
>>so I'd never be able to findit again. It was very small,
>>had a .... dog?..... on the cover, and if you
>>turned it over and backwards it was in German.
>
>Sounds like _The Four Horsemen Of The Apocalypse_.
>Published by E.M.E. (Expanded Media Editions).
>
>Mike
>
Nah, I think it's Electronic Revolution. My copy has a dog on the cover. A
dog doing a ... twirlie.
Glenn C.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 02:06:34 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Floyd Cramer
In-Reply-To: <34ADA038.EB07CBA2@scsn.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 09:19 PM 1/2/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Most here may not care, but an important musical figure passed on New
>Year's Eve. Floyd Cramer of "The Nashville Sound" passed. He played
>piano on Heartbreak Hotel, which in my book qualifies him for admission
>into any Hall of Fame or Olympus. His biggest hit that I know of was
>"Last Date."
>
>The newspaper reports that he recorded 50 solo albums and along with
>Chet Atkins, and Boots Randolph (He had a great album cover back in the
>sixties) created The Nashville Sound that allowed country music to cross
>over. He pioneered what is known as the "bent note" or "slip note"
>style on the piano, "hitting a note and almost instantly sliding into
>the next -- influenced a generation of pianists."
>
>He also played on sessions by Roy Orbison, the Everly Brothers, PATSY
>CLINE (a divine and eternal goddess) and Perry Como in addition to the
>historic 1955 recordings by Elvis in his first RCA sessions.
>
>We will miss you Floyd. Many didn't know his sound, but if they heard
>him play, they would know why so many play like him still.
>
>NP-- The Ballad of Easy Rider (album version)
>--
>
>Peace,
>
>Bentz
>bocelts@scsn.net
>http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
>
>
I always like to call Floyd's style the teardrop piano note
because it has a sad edge to it.
Mike Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 04:55:24 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: Re: And the Beat Goes On and On--via Tempe, AZ
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Just got home from an all night adventure in Tempe with a local attorney and old
college friend. We went to see the new Nicholson flick ate dinner and then
talked about Melville and Faulkner until dawn's early light. We'd not been in
contact for nine years. We're still old friends as it turns out.
As for 1603 evening it seems about a month ago already. The ideas were
stimulating. An interesting angle especially given the high degree of
scientific expertise involved and my moron level of ignorance in scientific
matters. The parallels were far far away from each other. It seems the
question is whether a unified conjugation of consciousness is possible in which
the forward moving muse and the backward moving muse say precisely the same
message? I'll let them figure that one out.
I definitely have many other thoughts. The evening was one of those enactments
of temporal relativity. Chronologically four hours, yet also seemed ten minutes
and four years at the same time. Bil's facial structure resembled an old
housemate in Illinois who was the Fool on the Hill. Sometimes it was hard to
follow completely because i had to keep telling my memories of North to turn off
so that i could focus on the words coming in from Bil. For those who know about
the conjugal consciounsess<grin> the experience makes total sense.
leaving on a jet plane today
david rhaesa
airborne.....
jo grant wrote:
> David,
> What a pleasure to hear that the folks at 1603 found you as interesting and
> charming in person as I have via the List. Perhaps someday our paths will
> cross, out there, on the road.
> j grant
>
> >
> >Dear Joe --
> >
> >Thank you for introducing us to David Rhaesa! We enjoyed his presence, his
> >stories, his perspective, and found much in common.
> >
> >We introduced David to our phase conjugate model of consciousness. Most
> >people find it a bit abstract, but David found it paralleled his thoughts
> >on the subject. We provided a few pieces of the puzzle that weren't
> >available to Burroughs, Kerouac, Ginsberg, Leary, and Watts. It'll be very
> >interesting to see what David does with this material!
> >
> >We spent 4-1/2 hours together on the Event Horizon, where cultural frames
> >of reference dissolve and the barriers between individuals become receptor
> >sites for new World Views; where God becomes your Friend, not an abstract
> >Court of Judgment.
> >
> >We gained a sense of our larger kinship beyond Time and Space. David
> >arrived as a stranger, but left as an old friend. We fondly remember a
> >time when WE first arrived at the front door of 1603 as strangers, and
> >found friends. There must be something magical about this place!
> >
> >David left with a glow, a smile, and some hugs. We and he had some laughs
> >with the Universe of Creation.
> >
> >Thank you, Joe, for your intercession. Once again, you've acted as the
> >Divine Novelty Agent you truly are!
> >
> >Looking forward to sitting around the table with you again!
> >
> >Love,
> >Chris and Bil
> >
>
> HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES
> Details on-line at
> http://www.bookzen.com
> 625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 11:35:23 -0600
Reply-To: cawilkie@comic.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cathy Wilkie <cawilkie@COMIC.NET>
Subject: LANGUAGE IS A VIRUS
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>
> Subject:
> Hard to find WSB book
> Date:
> Fri, 2 Jan 1998 14:48:29 EST
> From:
> Zucchini4 <Zucchini4@AOL.COM>
>
>
> Hi everybody. Just joined this list, and it is proving to be pretty
> interesting. So here's a question I hope you guys could help me w/-
> A little while ago, I found a Burroughs book called..... something.... of
> course hiding on the wrong shelf of the bookstore so I'd never be able to find
> it again. It was very small, had a .... dog?..... on the cover, and if you
> turned it over and backwards it was in German. It started out going on about
> how "language is a virus" .......
This has nothing to do with that book, (I think) but
Does anybody remember Laurie Anderson, the musical performance artist
who at times worked with peter Gabriel? She did a song called "Language
is a Virus." I used to have her tape, I can't find it now. If anyone
out there knows what I'm talking about, can they post the lyrics? Maybe
it does have something to do with the book.
cathy
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 14:05:43 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Permutation poems
Comments: cc: nhenness@uwaterloo.ca
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At 10:31 AM 12/30/97 -0500, Neil Hennessy wrote:
<snip>
>There are also recordings of Gysin reading his
>permutation poems, including "Kick that Habit Man",
>"Junk is No Good Baby" and some
>others.
<snip>
>The best books to look into are _Here to Go: Planet R-101_
>which is constructed as a series of interviews with Gysin,
> _Brion Gysin Let the Mice In_ , and _Man from
>Nowhere: Storming the Citadels of Enlightenment_.
>Mike Cakebread might be able to tell you if there's
>anything about permutations in the Man from Nowhere
>book (Mike?)
The only mention of permutation poems I could
find in _Man From Nowhere: Storming the Citadels of
Enlightenment with William Burroughs and Brion Gysin_
(published by the gap and subliminal books, 1992) is the
above recordings (and the blurb below) at BBC studios in
1960 by Gysin, with producer George Macbeth.
>from: _Man From Nowhere: Storming the Citadels of
Enlightenment with William Burroughs and Brion Gysin_
Brion Gysin:
"We did first of all the 'Pistol Poem' which was their
revolver shot; I had brought a cannon shot with me, not
realizing that it would be too long. . . because here we
began dealing with sound as material measurable in
centimetres, even in feet and inches, and the whole point
of the exercise was to do things treating sound as if it was
material. . . tangible material; as indeed it has become
since the invention of tape. And so we went to work, we
did the pistol shot one metre away, two metres away,
three, four, five metres, and then a permutation of these
numbers produced a pistol poem."
Not much, but better than nothing. . .
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 18:52:32 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Wittgenstein?
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Does anybody know if there are any Burroughs references
regarding Ludwig Wittgenstein? Any info would
be appreciated.
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 19:11:37 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Glenn Cooper <coopergw@MPX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Wittgenstein?
In-Reply-To: <199801032352.SAA05859@ionline.net>
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At 18:52 03/01/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Does anybody know if there are any Burroughs references
>regarding Ludwig Wittgenstein? Any info would
>be appreciated.
>
>Mike
>
WSB quotes him during the BURROUGHS THE MOVIE doco.
Glenn C.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 19:52:02 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeff Taylor <taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Wittgenstein?
In-Reply-To: <199801032352.SAA05859@ionline.net>
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On Sat, 3 Jan 1998, M. Cakebread wrote:
> Does anybody know if there are any Burroughs references
> regarding Ludwig Wittgenstein? Any info would
> be appreciated.
reference to the Tractatus in the intro to Naked Lunch (about 2
pages from the end)....a paraphrase perhaps of 5.47321
*******
Jeff Taylor
taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
*******
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 22:09:33 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Greg Beaver-Seitz <hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Greetings and salutations
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I'd just like to say hello.
I just joined the list and thought I should I announce my presence.
A little bit about me:
I was first introduced to the Beats by reading "Desolate Angel,"
biography of Jack Kerouac. From there I read "On the Road" and "The
Dharma Bums".
I have shifted a little bit recently, I consider myself to mainly be a
Ginsberg devotee, of his books I own:
"Plutonian Ode"
"The Fall of America"
"Howl and Other Poems"
"Mind Breaths"
"Selected Poems"
"Journals Mid Fifties"
"Annotated Howl"
and the Barry Miles biography.
I have also spent a lot of time recently on a web site devoted to him:
http://members.tripod.com/~Sprayberry
I am going to make a point of reading some Burroughs (I started Naked
Lunch at one point, never finished for one reason or another) and to
read more of Kerouac (plus rereading "On the Road").
I have read a little bit about Buddhism and try to incorporate some of
the teachings into my life, I am also a writer of fiction and poetry.
That's enough rambling for now... Hope to hear from everyone soon.
Greg Beaver-Seitz
Stillwater, Minnesota
hookooekoo@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 04:23:26 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aeronwytru <Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Greetings and salutations
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i've noticed that a lot of new members have signed on recently. three cheers!
though i'm still new myself, and am hardly in a position to say this, welcome
aboard!
aeronwy
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:19:06 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Greetings and salutations
In-Reply-To: <19980104060934.15361.qmail@hotmail.com>
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Welcome to the list, Greg...
I also started Naked Lunch and never finished it but Im sure I will,
eventually.
~Nancy
PS I really want a Gary Fisher HooKooEKoo. Do you have one?
On Sat, 3 Jan 1998, Greg Beaver-Seitz wrote:
> I'd just like to say hello.
> I just joined the list and thought I should I announce my presence.
> A little bit about me:
> I was first introduced to the Beats by reading "Desolate Angel,"
> biography of Jack Kerouac. From there I read "On the Road" and "The
> Dharma Bums".
> I have shifted a little bit recently, I consider myself to mainly be a
> Ginsberg devotee, of his books I own:
> "Plutonian Ode"
> "The Fall of America"
> "Howl and Other Poems"
> "Mind Breaths"
> "Selected Poems"
> "Journals Mid Fifties"
> "Annotated Howl"
> and the Barry Miles biography.
> I have also spent a lot of time recently on a web site devoted to him:
> http://members.tripod.com/~Sprayberry
>
> I am going to make a point of reading some Burroughs (I started Naked
> Lunch at one point, never finished for one reason or another) and to
> read more of Kerouac (plus rereading "On the Road").
> I have read a little bit about Buddhism and try to incorporate some of
> the teachings into my life, I am also a writer of fiction and poetry.
> That's enough rambling for now... Hope to hear from everyone soon.
>
> Greg Beaver-Seitz
> Stillwater, Minnesota
> hookooekoo@hotmail.com
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 10:04:15 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Greg Beaver-Seitz <hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Greetings and salutations
Content-Type: text/plain
I've got a trip to the library today to get some kerouac and
burroughs.... i hope to find time to read them along with stuff for
school and a great book (completely un-beat) called "Sophie's World"....
Greg
ps Nancy... yes, I have a 95 Hookooekoo which I've upgraded a little
since buying it.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:14:08 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Wittgenstein?
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Thanx Jeff & Glenn for the Wittgenstein info!!
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:54:01 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Skau <mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: kerouac & flags
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In _On the Bus_ by Paul Perry (NY: Thunder's Mouth, 1990), the following
statement occurs regarding a party at a Manhattan apartment including the
Merry Pranksters and Jack Kerouac:
"'Take a listen,' Cassady says, putting the earphones on Jack. The
Pranksters massage Kerouac with soothing words. They croon choruses of
'Everything's Fine,' into his ears. Dale covers Jack's shoulders with an
American flag. Jack endures it stoically and when the chorusing is done,
takes off the earphones and carefully folds the flag and places it on the
sofa." (p. 84)
This book also contains a photo of Kerouac at that party with the flag
draped around his shoulders (p. 86) and quotes the following story by
Ginsberg:
"The Pranksters had a big throne of a sofa completely clear for
Kerouac. The room was full of wires and lights and cameras and people in
striped clothes and Pranksters and jesters and American flags and people
waving cameras around drinking in rock and roll and all lit up like
amphetamines.
Kerouac came in. He was mute and quiet and they showed him to his
couch seat but there was an American flag on it, so Kerouac, without
making a big, noisy complaint but a little minor objection, turned around
and took the flag and folded it up neatly and put it over the side of the
couch so they wouldn't sit on it. He was very conscious of the flag as an
image, and I think he misunderstood their use of it. They were
appropriating the flag for their own American purposes and he thought they
were maybe insulting it. Of course, you can say many things about Kesey,
but being unpatriotic is not one of them." (p. 86)
Cordially,
Mike Skau
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:53:56 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mary Maconnell <MMACONNELL@MAIL.EWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: New/"Kerouac: The Essence of Jack"
MIME-version: 1.0
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Hi again. Howard Park was right on in describing the play thusly:
-----
It opens with a fine jazz combo. From there it is a series of events from
Kerouac's life. It sticks pretty close to the facts as I understand them with
some "license" when the actor gets into the rhelm of how Kerouac felt about
certain things. The territiory is pretty familier - Gerards death, football
days, meeting Cassidy and Ginsberg, troubles getting On The Road published,
positive and negative reactions to OTR, troubles brought on by sudden fame,
the Steve Allen show, the breakdown at Big Sur, the Merry Pranksters visit,
the alcohol soaked 60's. Readings from various Kerouac books are sprinkled
throughout. At the end Vincent takes questions -- mostly from
twentysomethings who know a little, but not a lot, about Kerouac.
-----
Vincent Balestri was simply amazing. Every time I think about it I want
to back and see it again and again. Unfortunately, I live about 250 miles
from Seattle and so that would involve a weekend road trip which now I
won't have much time for. Anyway, this guy is incredible. He really *is*
Jack. It's just him and the jazz trio. On the stage is a coat rack, a
table with a typewriter on it, and a rocking chair. He has a few
miscellaneous props such as an alcohol bottle, a poster from a "cheesy"
(so I've been told -- I didn't see it and I can't remember the title)
movie about the beats, etc. I was captivated and it held my attention
for the entire duration. He takes the play from a two-page bio that
Jack wrote from "Heaven..." and actually consults that during the play.
It's funny, well-written, poignant, and completely gripping.
On the night that I went there was such a mixture of people it was unreal.
I saw everyone from high schoolers (I wish I had known about Kerouac then!!)
to older people (hope I don't offend anyone). :) There were a few, but
now many, 'twentysomethings' in the crowd and I must confess that I was
one of them! They do have a nice little bar in the back that serves
cheap, good, stiff drinks which you can enjoy at your seat during the
show.
The musicians are excellent. The friend I went with knows the bass player
(Mike Bisio) pretty well and he introduced us to Brian Kent (sax) and the
guy playing drums (can't remember his name -- he was a stand-in for the
normal guy). I loved the music. They also play a bit before the show
so it sets the mood very nicely.
For those who missed it before, the play is at the Velvet Elvis in Pioneer
Square in Seattle and it plays until the 15th of February. The price is
$18 a ticket but it *is* well worth it. Heck, I'm going again if I can
possibly get over there.
Take care, all, and happy new year!
Mary
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 18:56:50 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Don Marriner <mmas@NETIDEA.COM>
Subject: that old time religion
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I'm yet another new lister - hi all.
I wonder if there's been any discussion before about how cool it is that
the three uber-dudes of Beat genesis - Burroughs, Ginsberg, Kerouac -
represented, by dint of their particular backgrounds,what could be
considered the three founding religious permutations of Euro-American
culture : Protestantism, Judaism and Catholicism respectively. It's like in
order for there to be a new spiritual wave form released into the North
American consciousness there had to be a coming together of the old
factions. Whaddya think?
Oh, and by the way, I'm a Canadian. Just for fun, can anyone think of any
truly Beat Canucks?
jacqui in Nelson, B.C.
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<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial">I'm yet another new lister - hi =
all.<br><br>I wonder if there's been any discussion before about how =
cool it is that the three uber-dudes of Beat genesis - Burroughs, =
Ginsberg, Kerouac - represented, by dint of their particular =
backgrounds,what could be considered the three founding religious =
permutations of Euro-American culture : Protestantism, Judaism and =
Catholicism respectively. It's like in order for there to be a new =
spiritual wave form released into the North American consciousness there =
had to be a coming together of the old factions. Whaddya =
think?<br><br>Oh, and by the way, I'm a Canadian. Just for fun, can =
anyone think of any truly Beat Canucks?<br><br>jacqui in Nelson, =
B.C.</p>
</font></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_01BD1942.83D433A0--
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 22:20:32 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sara Feustle <sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Subject: Truly Beat Canucks
In-Reply-To: <199801050255.SAA10191@everest.netidea.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I heard your first prime minister (McDonald, right?) was pretty cool......
Sara Feustle
sfeustl@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Cronopio, cronopio?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:54:18 -0600
Reply-To: cawilkie@comic.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cathy Wilkie <cawilkie@COMIC.NET>
Subject: language is a virus
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Help me,
I'm still desparately trying to locate that Laurie Anderson tape I had
with "Language is a virus". Does anyone out there have it and can they
post the lyrics. I've got to satisfy my curiousity if it is connected
to that recently discussed wsb book. Patricia told me that she had
preformed with burroughs and ginsberg, so i'm really curious on this.
cathy
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:11:42 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: tristan saldana <hbeng175@EMAIL.CSUN.EDU>
Subject: Re: that old time religion
Comments: To: Don Marriner <mmas@NETIDEA.COM>
In-Reply-To: <199801050255.SAA10191@everest.netidea.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
What are you referring to exactly when you say "that old time religion?"
I mean what does that phrase actually mean? I haven't heared that saying
since the tune "Big Money" by Rush!
Tristan
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 02:24:01 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Timothy Franklin Thomas <tt324696@OAK.CATS.OHIOU.EDU>
Subject: Re: language is a virus
Comments: To: Cathy Wilkie <cawilkie@comic.net>
In-Reply-To: <34B0758A.5F29@comic.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
"Language is a virus from outer space" was on Anderson's 1984 five-album
set "United States Live". I believe that this was released on cd only
recently. I'm sure she had many collaberations with the boys only one of
which comes to mind at this time. She did an album on John Giorno's
Dial-A-Poet series with Giorno and Burroughs. The album is interesting in
that instead of having one groove spiraling toward the center, there were
three separate grooves intertwined. Depending on were the needle touched
down at the start of the record then that was the track you heard. The
album was called "You're The Guy I Want To Share My Money With".
TIMBO
On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, Cathy Wilkie wrote:
> Help me,
>
>
> I'm still desparately trying to locate that Laurie Anderson tape I had
> with "Language is a virus". Does anyone out there have it and can they
> post the lyrics. I've got to satisfy my curiousity if it is connected
> to that recently discussed wsb book. Patricia told me that she had
> preformed with burroughs and ginsberg, so i'm really curious on this.
>
> cathy
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:27:21 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: CIRCULATION <breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Kerouac & Kesey on film
From: MX%"kenk@efn.org" "Kesey and/or Babbs" 4-JAN-1998 20:00:09.62
To: MX%"breithau@kenyon.edu"
CC:
Subj: Re: This video still around?
For the Beat Listers who wondered if that film of Kerouac and the Pranksters in
NYC was still around, here is the word from Ken Babbs.
Dave B.
Hi, Dave. Yes, the film of which you speak is still in existence, as it has
been these past 34 years. We have yet to edit it and release it. But you
can get videos of parts of the film from keyz@efn.org
or you can call them at 541-484-4315. It's Zane Kesey (Kesey's son) and his
wife, Stephanie.
kb
http://www.intrepidtrips.com
__________
_/ |
|_ FURTHER _|
O O
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:04:33 -0800
To: CIRCULATION <breithau@kenyon.edu>
From: kenk@efn.org (Kesey and/or Babbs)
Subject: Re: This video still around?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:45:40 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: michael hanson <hanson@HUM.AUC.DK>
Subject: Re: Wittgenstein?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Someone recently asked for information on Burroughs's use of and relation
to Ludwig Wittgenstein. I am afraid I no longer remember who asked, but
anyway... here is an article you might like to read:
R.G.Peterson: "A Picture Is A Fact: Wittgenstein and Naked Lunch", in: The
Beats - Essays in Criticism, pp. 30-39, Ed. by Lee Bartlett, McFarland 1981.
Sincerely
Michael Hanson
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:45:30 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MATT HANNAN <MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>
Subject: Most Stolen Books
Mime-Version: 1.0
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According to Publisher's Weekly:
Books most likely to be stolen from stores in New York City [would we
consider this to be indicative of the US in general? - Matt] include:
Waiting to Exhale
Jazz
Playing in the Dark
Silent Passage: Menopause
Race
Possessing the Secret of Joy
Most stolen authors include:
Annie Leibovitz
Dr. Seuss
Franz Kafka
Jack Kerouac
Malcolm X
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:36:10 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Glenn Cooper <coopergw@MPX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Most Stolen Books
In-Reply-To: <00089626.3427@usoc.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 13:45 05/01/98 -0500, you wrote:
> According to Publisher's Weekly:
>
> Books most likely to be stolen from stores in New York City [would we
> consider this to be indicative of the US in general? - Matt] include:
>
> Waiting to Exhale
> Jazz
> Playing in the Dark
> Silent Passage: Menopause
> Race
> Possessing the Secret of Joy
>
> Most stolen authors include:
>
> Annie Leibovitz
> Dr. Seuss
> Franz Kafka
> Jack Kerouac
> Malcolm X
>
In Australia, a list of most stolen books was published a couple of years ago.
Number 1 was WSB's "Junkie". Also feautured was "On The Road". The
Mariujuana growers handbook ranked highly, as did a lot of Henry Miller
books.
A couple of the book stores I frequent place all their "Beat" and
"counterculture" stuff right up near the counter, to help deter thieves.
Not sure what we can make from that!
Glenn C.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:04:56 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MATT HANNAN <MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>
Subject: Re: Most Stolen Books
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I'm surprised that Abbie Hoffman's "Steal This Book" isn't on either
list.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Most Stolen Books
Author: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> at Internet
Date: 1/5/98 4:36 PM
At 13:45 05/01/98 -0500, you wrote:
> According to Publisher's Weekly:
>
> Books most likely to be stolen from stores in New York City [would we
> consider this to be indicative of the US in general? - Matt] include:
>
> Waiting to Exhale
> Jazz
> Playing in the Dark
> Silent Passage: Menopause
> Race
> Possessing the Secret of Joy
>
> Most stolen authors include:
>
> Annie Leibovitz
> Dr. Seuss
> Franz Kafka
> Jack Kerouac
> Malcolm X
>
In Australia, a list of most stolen books was published a couple of years ago.
Number 1 was WSB's "Junkie". Also feautured was "On The Road". The
Mariujuana growers handbook ranked highly, as did a lot of Henry Miller
books.
A couple of the book stores I frequent place all their "Beat" and
"counterculture" stuff right up near the counter, to help deter thieves.
Not sure what we can make from that!
Glenn C.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:59:31 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Wittgenstein?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Can anyone briefly tell me if the references mentioned
are influenced by Wittgenstein's _Tractatus_, or
_Philosophical Investigations_? Just curious.
If I remember correctly, LW changed his views about
language (he believed his views in _Tractutus_ were narrow,
and in _Philosophical Investigations_ he argues that
if one actually looks to see how language is used, the
variety of linguistic usage becomes clear. Words
are like tools, and just as tools serve different
functions, so linguistic expressions serve many
functions). This recognition of linguistic flexibility and
variety led to his concept of a language game and to
the conclusion that people play different language games.
Trying to find out what WSB's take was on Wittgenstein's
theories.
Thanx,
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 14:22:31 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Greg Beaver-Seitz <hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Most Stolen Books
Content-Type: text/plain
Speaking of movies..
Does anyone know if it's possible to find a copy of the movie, "Pull my
Daisy" which ginsberg and kerouac made way back when??
I have read about it a few different places and have pretty much never
planned on finding it but I thought I'd try.
-Greg
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Ginsberg etc.
http://members.tripod.com/~Sprayberry
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 17:38:00 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: IDDHI <IDDHI@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Wittgenstein?
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-01-05 17:26:02 EST, Mike wrote:
<< If I remember correctly, LW changed his views about
language (he believed his views in _Tractutus_ were narrow,
and in _Philosophical Investigations_ he argues that
if one actually looks to see how language is used, the
variety of linguistic usage becomes clear. Words
are like tools, and just as tools serve different
functions, so linguistic expressions serve many
functions). This recognition of linguistic flexibility and
variety led to his concept of a language game and to
the conclusion that people play different language games.
Trying to find out what WSB's take was on Wittgenstein's
theories. >>
Please don't take this personally, but who gives a shit? If prose was as
sterile and ho-hum as that theory and passage above, I'd never crack a book.
Gotta go read some Hank before I die of starvation.
ID
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:14:24 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mary Maconnell <MMACONNELL@MAIL.EWU.EDU>
Subject: Kerouac: The Essence of Jack cont'd. (notes)
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Thought I'd dig up the production notes and copy them from the program
from the aforementioned play. They read:
Jack Kerouac exploded into the nation's consciousness in 1957 with the
publication of On the Road: the odyssey of two young men in post World
War II America travelling across the continent in a search for truth.
Their journey from Harlem jazz joints to the barrios of Mexico City lit
the hearts and minds of a new generation like a torch set ablaze against
a dreary cold war landscape. The New York Times called the book a
literary milestone. A few weeks later, the Times published a second
review condemning the work and all it represented. But it was too late.
A new generation had been born.
In 1980, Mr. Balestri began actively working on what was to become
Kerouac: The Essence of Jack. A friend introduced him to Edie Kerouac,
Jack's first wife, who was struck by Balestri's resemblance to Kerouac.
Edie supplied him with tapes of the author's voice and spent hours
talking about her life with Jack and the times in which they lived.
With Edie's encouragement, Balestri began a series of hour long '
performances in a friend's loft in Chicago. He next performed as a
benefit at David Thompson University in B.C. -- an eight hour
marathon in which the actor and the audience went for broke. Full
production began in 1981. Since that time, Mr. Balestri has toured
extensively across the United States and Canada. "Kerouac" has been
showcased in Jack's hometown, Lowell, Massachusetts, for their annual
birthday celebration and has been seen by many of Jack's family and
friends.
This production is dedicated to Jack's loved ones who are with him
now -- safe in heaven dead.
-----
The typos are mine, if there are any, and I don't know who wrote these
notes as there is not an author mentioned.
Thought this might give more concrete information rather than just the
groovy feelings I have for the play. :) I hope I'm not boring everyone!!
Mary
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:21:09 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Wittgenstein?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 05:38 PM 1/5/98 EST, IDDHI@AOL.COM wrote:
>Please don't take this personally, but who gives a shit?
>If prose was as sterile and ho-hum as that theory
>and passage above, I'd never crack a book.
Obviously I do give a shit, and maybe there are
others. . . How do you not expect me to not take
a reply like this personally? If you
are going to make an open attack on me, please
don't kiss my ass beforehand. I'd respect the
candor of the attack a hell of a lot more than a
petty flame. I was trying to find out some info for
personal study, and this retort was not appreciated.
I hope next time you think before you post.
Sorry for the flame folx.
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 17:50:09 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Wittgenstein?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
IDDHI wrote:
>
> In a message dated 98-01-05 17:26:02 EST, Mike wrote:
>
> << If I remember correctly, LW changed his views about
> language (he believed his views in _Tractutus_ were narrow,
> and in _Philosophical Investigations_ he argues that
> if one actually looks to see how language is used, the
> variety of linguistic usage becomes clear. Words
> are like tools, and just as tools serve different
> functions, so linguistic expressions serve many
> functions). This recognition of linguistic flexibility and
> variety led to his concept of a language game and to
> the conclusion that people play different language games.
> Trying to find out what WSB's take was on Wittgenstein's
> theories. >>
>
> Please don't take this personally, but who gives a shit? If prose was as
> sterile and ho-hum as that theory and passage above, I'd never crack a book.
>
> Gotta go read some Hank before I die of starvation.
>
> ID
Interesting, what some people find interesting, i found the first post
interesting. Language as a game resulting in escalation of thought is a
roller coaster i can buy a ticket on. the second post seemed real
boring.
patricia
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:48:20 -0800
Reply-To: Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: Wittgenstein?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
-----Original Message-----
From: IDDHI <IDDHI@AOL.COM>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: Wittgenstein?
>In a message dated 98-01-05 17:26:02 EST, Mike wrote:
>
><< If I remember correctly, LW changed his views about
> language (he believed his views in _Tractutus_ were narrow,
> and in _Philosophical Investigations_ he argues that
> if one actually looks to see how language is used, the
> variety of linguistic usage becomes clear. Words
> are like tools, and just as tools serve different
> functions, so linguistic expressions serve many
> functions). This recognition of linguistic flexibility and
> variety led to his concept of a language game and to
> the conclusion that people play different language games.
> Trying to find out what WSB's take was on Wittgenstein's
> theories. >>
>
>Please don't take this personally, but who gives a shit?
Count me in as one who does give a shit.
>If prose was as
>sterile and ho-hum as that theory and passage above, I'd never crack a
book.
Sterile and ho-hum in the eyes of the beholder?
>
>Gotta go read some Hank before I die of starvation.
Stay alive with Hank, man, while I feast on Wittgenstein's theories. Thanks
for the delightful food for thought, Mike.
>
>ID
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:31:11 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Greg Beaver-Seitz <hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: English major
Content-Type: text/plain
>> If I remember correctly, LW changed his views about
>> language (he believed his views in _Tractutus_ were narrow,
>> and in _Philosophical Investigations_ he argues that
>> if one actually looks to see how language is used, the
>> variety of linguistic usage becomes clear. Words
>> are like tools, and just as tools serve different
>> functions, so linguistic expressions serve many
>> functions). This recognition of linguistic flexibility and
>> variety led to his concept of a language game and to
>> the conclusion that people play different language games.
>> Trying to find out what WSB's take was on Wittgenstein's
>> theories. >>
>
>
>Please don't take this personally, but who gives a shit? If prose was
>as
>sterile and ho-hum as that theory and passage above, I'd never crack a
book.
>
>Gotta go read some Hank before I die of starvation.
>
>ID
>
Exactly.
Leave dry, emotionless theories to those studying dry, emotionless
authors/poets/people.
I have seen such analytical, super-intellectualism in three places:
In an AOL chat room (note: never visit AOL chat rooms)
At a talk by Jane Smiley between her (although she seemed anxious
(to end such talk) and an english major in the audience.
In physics' books.
I have absolutely nothing against english majors (I very well could
become one next year), i have little respect for most people on AOL and
I just really dislike physics.
I also have absolutely nothing against the writer of the first message,
believe me.
With good feelings all around,
greg
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
Ginsberg etc.
http://members.tripod.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:45:43 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: Re: Most Stolen Books
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I got my copy from Beat Books in Berkeley.
http://members.aol.com/beatshop/beatcat.html
Good luck!
Jym
----------
> From: Greg Beaver-Seitz <hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>
> To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> Subject: Re: Most Stolen Books
> Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 4:22 PM
>
> Speaking of movies..
> Does anyone know if it's possible to find a copy of the movie, "Pull my
> Daisy" which ginsberg and kerouac made way back when??
> I have read about it a few different places and have pretty much never
> planned on finding it but I thought I'd try.
>
> -Greg
>
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> Ginsberg etc.
> http://members.tripod.com/~Sprayberry
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:47:02 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: Re: Most Stolen Books
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Matt Hannan wrote:
> According to Publisher's Weekly:
>
> Books most likely to be stolen from stores in New York City [would
we
> consider this to be indicative of the US in general? - Matt]
include:
>
> Waiting to Exhale
> Jazz
> Playing in the Dark
> Silent Passage: Menopause
> Race
> Possessing the Secret of Joy
>
> Most stolen authors include:
>
> Annie Leibovitz
> Dr. Seuss
> Franz Kafka
> Jack Kerouac
> Malcolm X
DR. SEUSS?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
What is the world coming to???????
Jym
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 17:12:14 -0800
Reply-To: Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: English major
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Beaver-Seitz <hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 4:33 PM
Subject: English major
hookooekoo,
>>Gotta go read some Hank before I die of starvation.
>>
>>ID
>>
>
>Exactly.
Is it possibly your diet that keeps you, ID and Hookooekoo, on the verge of
starvation?
>Leave dry, emotionless theories to those studying dry, emotionless
>authors/poets/people.
Thanks for the compliment hookooekooo.
>I have seen such analytical, super-intellectualism in three places:
> In an AOL chat room (note: never visit AOL chat rooms)
> At a talk by Jane Smiley between her (although she seemed anxious
> (to end such talk) and an english major in the audience.
> In physics' books.
Is anything beyond your grasp unworthy of alive vibrant intelligent
consideration?
>I have absolutely nothing against english majors (I very well could
>become one next year), i have little respect for most people on AOL and
>I just really dislike physics.
How do you stack up in your noble assignments of respect and "nothing
against" refreshingly vital judgements?
>I also have absolutely nothing against the writer of the first message,
>believe me.
Here is a dry, supeeranalytical, overly intellectual question for your
amusement: What in the hell do you think you are communicating about
yourself with this statement?
Do you wonder if anybody takes you seriously?
>
>With good feelings all around,
Those are good feelings that you just spread out for me, a great admirer of
great minds and intelligent discussions?
I would like to suggest to you that perhaps if you worked hard at it you too
might discover the great joy there is to be found in profound use of your
brain. If you want to limit it to just whatever it is that you can enjoy
that is fine with me, but must you dismiss what you don't like as feed for
dried up super something or other? I think if you respected yourself more
you wouldn't be so quick with your handouts of respect to others.
>greg
>
>
>* * * * * * * * * * * * *
>Ginsberg etc.
>http://members.tripod.com
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:59:59 -0700
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: [Fwd: Flying visions #3308]
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Jim,
please forward the following to the Beat-L (address in you address book)
at your earliest convenience.
January 3rd, 1998 America West Return Flight from Phoenix to KC
(read while watching Space Jam and listening to Holy Soul Jelly Roll)
Riding a bike
First fight
NoDoz and First frozen pizzas
my first experiences with a
mustard seed
and the old old gardener
teaching
coooking
simmering
alchemical, archetypal, synaptic interactions whiz by like clouds
b
e
l
o
w
I'm flying above the clouds in a hot air balloon named Widener or
Titanic
I came to the Valley
with the old myth
"ya gotta walk that Lonesome valley"
by yurself
with a genetic engrained MIDI
chip brain ram recorder
spitting 200 floors above
Leonard Cohen's vision of the Future
Me and Roy are laughing
(Hank's 180 floors down coughing so we invite him up)
all night long
Often snoring too as boredom overtook us
we talked about lactose intolerance
with Robert Johnson
Whadayadoin here kid - says Blind Lemon Jefferson
and I says I'm just the Pizza Delivery boy
waiting
for a tip
on how
to survive the loneliness below
And John Lennon sings
There Will be Peace in the Valley
and gives me a ticket to fly
and Big Brother who held me company (not captive)
loans me a car and suddenly
I'm at 1603 ELF Street in Tempe
in the Land of the Apache
in the Valley of the Sun
and I'm a Moonchild's shadow from the
Dark Side
wearing Ruby Converse All-stars (low tops)
and black Levis
the Stranger of Strangers
who ghostwrote Camus
in anti-linear conjugative temporal telepathic Hog Greek
a total stranger
in the Valley of the Sun
interacting
intraacting
based souly on introduction
via
a technological medium
I understand at a limit set to nihil
empty set
of fingers pouncing on a keyboard
with John Lennon's choir singing
Rocky Mountain High
a
n
d
Louis Armstrong - It's A Wonderful World
with Jimmy Stewart dancing on the bridges
between the 12th and 13th dimensions
and
i wonder
when someone else will find the key
to the "Pizza Delivery Con"
at the Tower of Song
in issue #23
of Spy vs. Spy
the special biography of my backchannel brain distorted
and the eagle landed
in arrowhead stadium
david rhaesa
copyright January 1998
--------------A66F4A113EDD568599A4DB00--
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 21:56:45 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: Most Stolen Books
In-Reply-To: <19980105222232.650.qmail@hotmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 02:22 PM 1/5/98 PST, you wrote:
>Speaking of movies..
>Does anyone know if it's possible to find a copy of the movie, "Pull my
>Daisy" which ginsberg and kerouac made way back when??
>I have read about it a few different places and have pretty much never
>planned on finding it but I thought I'd try.
>
E-mail Jeffry Weinberg at waterrow@aol.com or go to his site at
http://www.waterrowbooks.com/orderpage.html I am pretty sure he has it and
he is very reliable. Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:25:45 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: English major
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Greg Beaver-Seitz wrote:
> Leave dry, emotionless theories to those studying dry, emotionless
> authors/poets/people.
What strikes me in this comment is the assumption that a concern for the
idea of language and meaning is considered dry and emotionless, and that
perhaps it is not necessary in discussions of beat writers, whom I hope
are experienced as emotional, vital and alive. The whole idea of beat
literature is centered in the experience of truly living life to the
fullest. All of these people however went from "experiencing" to
"writing about the experience." They wrote about human-ness and the only
way to do that is by using language. Not only that, all of them
experimented with language: Ginsberg brought immediate, personal
experience to the realm of poetry; Kerouac brought up the idea of
spontaneous prose; and few writers of the twentieth have ever begun to
experiment with language in the way that Burroughs did. I am sure
that Burroughs read widely in the area of the philosophy of language. The
meaning of language is key to everything we do and great writers all
experiment with the potentiality of the word. If I'm broaching the area
of "analytical, superintellectism" then so be it! As Joseph Campbell
would say "follow your bliss."
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 19:31:36 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: English major
well said Diane. while over-analysis seems to be the problem these days -
leaving the emotion as though it were a mere tangent to the work, still it's
obvious that language was VERY important to Beats, just as it is to anyone
who writes seriously. for all his spontaneity, if memory serves, JK wrote
12 revisions of "On the Road". and i agree that Burroughs whole take on
language could be viewed as a study of semiotics. and if we wish to
understand any writing to the fullest, we must understand language, for it
is language that defines much of how a culture thinks - its philosophies,
its understanding of the world, its limitations.
ciao, sherri
-----Original Message-----
From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: English major
>> Greg Beaver-Seitz wrote:
>
>> Leave dry, emotionless theories to those studying dry, emotionless
>> authors/poets/people.
>
>What strikes me in this comment is the assumption that a concern for the
>idea of language and meaning is considered dry and emotionless, and that
>perhaps it is not necessary in discussions of beat writers, whom I hope
>are experienced as emotional, vital and alive. The whole idea of beat
>literature is centered in the experience of truly living life to the
>fullest. All of these people however went from "experiencing" to
>"writing about the experience." They wrote about human-ness and the only
>way to do that is by using language. Not only that, all of them
>experimented with language: Ginsberg brought immediate, personal
>experience to the realm of poetry; Kerouac brought up the idea of
>spontaneous prose; and few writers of the twentieth have ever begun to
>experiment with language in the way that Burroughs did. I am sure
>that Burroughs read widely in the area of the philosophy of language. The
>meaning of language is key to everything we do and great writers all
>experiment with the potentiality of the word. If I'm broaching the area
>of "analytical, superintellectism" then so be it! As Joseph Campbell
>would say "follow your bliss."
>DC
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:12:45 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Don Marriner <mmas@NETIDEA.COM>
Subject: Re: that old time re:ligion
MIME-Version: 1.0
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tristan-
"that old time religion" refers to what I consider the old religions that I
mentioned in my message...
...ah, Rush: a very _unbeat_ Canadian band. But how about those Cowboy
Junkies? Surely they're carrying the torch.
chris-
Jack's family came from the Great White North but it seems to me that the
man himself was a good red blooded American boy.
And just to answer my own question - I just remembered Leonard Cohen -!
How could I forget Cohen-san. Mr Canuck Beatnik.
adrien -
hey, flat lander!
Thanks for the tips re Levy-Beaulieu and the bongobeat guy!
As for faves, I'm definitely a Kerouackian - I first read the Dharma Bums
while riding the Coast Starlight train from Seattle to Oakland, my jumping
off point for a week of wandering around San Fran and Berkeley and Mount
Tam with the lenses of Jack's lingo before my eyes. I was 19. Since then I
've tried to read as widely as possible and tried to get some shit down on
paper myself. I practically live by Jack's "list of essentials". I had the
pleasure of seeing Ginsberg and Orlovsky read here in Nelson in 1979 and
own what I suppose is a bootleg copy of that night.
ciao,
-jacqui
List of Essentials, #16: Work from pithy middle eye out, from the jewel
center of interest, swimming in language sea.
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<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial">tristan-<br>"that old time =
religion" refers to what I consider the old religions that I =
mentioned in my message...<br>...ah, Rush: a very _unbeat_ Canadian =
band. But how about those Cowboy Junkies? Surely they're carrying the =
torch.<br><br>chris-<br>Jack's family came from the Great White North =
but it seems to me that the man himself was a good red blooded American =
boy.<br><br>And just to answer my own question - I just remembered =
Leonard Cohen -!<br>How could I forget Cohen-san. Mr Canuck =
Beatnik.<br><br>adrien -<br>hey, flat lander! <br>Thanks for the tips re =
Levy-Beaulieu and the bongobeat guy!<br>As for faves, I'm definitely a =
Kerouackian - I first read the Dharma Bums while riding the Coast =
Starlight train from Seattle to Oakland, my jumping off point for a week =
of wandering around San Fran and Berkeley and Mount Tam with the lenses =
of Jack's lingo before my eyes. I was 19. Since then I 've tried to read =
as widely as possible and tried to get some shit down on paper myself. I =
practically live by Jack's "list of essentials". I had the =
pleasure of seeing Ginsberg and Orlovsky read here in Nelson in 1979 and =
own what I suppose is a bootleg copy of that night. =
<br><br><br>ciao,<br><br>-jacqui<br><br>List of Essentials, #16: =
Work from pithy middle eye out, from the jewel center of interest, =
swimming in language sea.</p>
</font></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_01BD1A16.4904DCA0--
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:32:50 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: DCardKJHS <DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: English major
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-01-05 19:33:22 EST, you write:
<< i have little respect for most people on AOL >>
There are 9 million people on AOL, I'm sure they'll be crushed.
Dennis (English major/AOL subscriber)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:51:00 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Most Stolen Books
In-Reply-To: <000898E4.3427@usoc.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:04 PM 1/5/98 -0500, you wrote:
> I'm surprised that Abbie Hoffman's "Steal This Book" isn't on either
> list.
>
>I imagine booksellers are tired of playing along with Abbie's little
joke. Why stock the book at all if it is only for theft. In the seventies,
I saw the book in stores, but haven't seen it since then. It was a pop book
of the moment while Hoffman was hiding out somewhere in America, on the
lam from a heroin selling charge. During that time, he negotiated a TV
interview of himself, with WNET in New York, in exchange for the then bulky
3/4 inch
videocassette player. Abbie makes you wonder. He seemed the most carefree and
joyous of all the real life comedians of the sixties, and yet he must have
suffered bouts of despair, the last one leading to his suicide, when the
country started to grow more conservative, and he and Jerry Rubin were forced
to play good cop and bad cop to one another on a national debate tour;
discussing whether "twas nobler to pull out the stops for humanity (Hoffman),
or sell out to the highest bidder (Rubin)."
Rubin's position seems to have won the day, at least temporarily, but I
remember Abbie more fondly than any of the other players who entertained
us during the madness of the late sixties. His motives seemed purer.
Mike Rice
>
>
>______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:51:03 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Most Stolen Books
In-Reply-To: <19980105222232.650.qmail@hotmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 02:22 PM 1/5/98 PST, you wrote:
>Speaking of movies..
>Does anyone know if it's possible to find a copy of the movie, "Pull my
>Daisy" which ginsberg and kerouac made way back when??
>I have read about it a few different places and have pretty much never
>planned on finding it but I thought I'd try.
>
>-Greg
>
>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>Ginsberg etc.
>http://members.tripod.com/~Sprayberry
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
Try Home Film Festival at 800-258-3456. They have a
reputation for renting independent and offbeat films.
Mike Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:16:31 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: English major
In-Reply-To: <19980106003112.28202.qmail@hotmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I think you can talk the work of the three most famous
beat writers to death, as occasionally happens on this
list. I view the List as a take-off point for anything
anyone might want to talk about. And don't really object
to most threads, save for the dreaded Gordian Knot that is
the Kerouas estate.
I don't mind even the intellectualism, if there is nothing
else. Something always bubbles to the fore eventually.
Mike Rice
At 04:31 PM 1/5/98 PST, you wrote:
>>> If I remember correctly, LW changed his views about
>>> language (he believed his views in _Tractutus_ were narrow,
>>> and in _Philosophical Investigations_ he argues that
>>> if one actually looks to see how language is used, the
>>> variety of linguistic usage becomes clear. Words
>>> are like tools, and just as tools serve different
>>> functions, so linguistic expressions serve many
>>> functions). This recognition of linguistic flexibility and
>>> variety led to his concept of a language game and to
>>> the conclusion that people play different language games.
>>> Trying to find out what WSB's take was on Wittgenstein's
>>> theories. >>
>>
>>
>
>>Please don't take this personally, but who gives a shit? If prose was
>>as
>>sterile and ho-hum as that theory and passage above, I'd never crack a
>book.
>>
>>Gotta go read some Hank before I die of starvation.
>>
>>ID
>>
>
>Exactly.
>
>Leave dry, emotionless theories to those studying dry, emotionless
>authors/poets/people.
>I have seen such analytical, super-intellectualism in three places:
> In an AOL chat room (note: never visit AOL chat rooms)
> At a talk by Jane Smiley between her (although she seemed anxious
> (to end such talk) and an english major in the audience.
> In physics' books.
>
>I have absolutely nothing against english majors (I very well could
>become one next year), i have little respect for most people on AOL and
>I just really dislike physics.
>I also have absolutely nothing against the writer of the first message,
>believe me.
>
>With good feelings all around,
>greg
>
>
>* * * * * * * * * * * * *
>Ginsberg etc.
>http://members.tripod.com
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:16:35 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Most Stolen Books
In-Reply-To: <199801060046.SAA17705@core0.mx.execpc.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 06:45 PM 1/5/98 -0600, you wrote:
>I got my copy (of Pull My Daisy) from Beat Books in Berkeley.
>
>http://members.aol.com/beatshop/beatcat.html
>
>Good luck!
>
>Jym
>
Fine, did you pay for it?
Mike Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:17:43 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: English major
In-Reply-To: <4918e886.34b1b3f4@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:32 PM 1/5/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-01-05 19:33:22 EST, you write:
>
><< i have little respect for most people on AOL >>
>There are 9 million people on AOL, I'm sure they'll be crushed.
>Dennis (English major/AOL subscriber)
>
>
AOL gets a terrible wrap whereever you go. Apart from the
problems they have been suffering for one solid year, I think
there is nothing wrong with those 9 million folks. Many have
an aversion to dealing with the installation of software. Others
want to carry their email with them when they travel, and the two
national "Brands" allow you to do this, though I simply fire up
hotmail on someone's computer, anywhere, to write someone.
By the way, does anyone know of an email software that will allow
you to create more than one personalized account and private code,
by encoding the incoming and outgoing messages, so that as many
as three or four people can use the same account and get total
email privacy from one another. It would seem to be a simple
software trick to bring off. If anyone knows, please write me
privately, will you?
Mike Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:26:25 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Skau <mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: Abbie
In-Reply-To: <000898E4.3427@usoc.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Actually Abbie Hoffman had attempted the same strategy with his first
book, _Revolution for the Hell of It_, which he had written under the
pseudonym Free, a pseudonym which he wanted splashed across the front
cover so that people might think it meant the book was free.
Unfortunately, the publishers decided to reduce the size of the
author-pseudonym considerably.
Cordially,
Mike Skau
On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, MATT HANNAN wrote:
> I'm surprised that Abbie Hoffman's "Steal This Book" isn't on either
> list.
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
> Subject: Re: Most Stolen Books
> Author: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> at Internet
> Date: 1/5/98 4:36 PM
>
>
> At 13:45 05/01/98 -0500, you wrote:
> > According to Publisher's Weekly:
> >
> > Books most likely to be stolen from stores in New York City [would we
> > consider this to be indicative of the US in general? - Matt] include:
> >
> > Waiting to Exhale
> > Jazz
> > Playing in the Dark
> > Silent Passage: Menopause
> > Race
> > Possessing the Secret of Joy
> >
> > Most stolen authors include:
> >
> > Annie Leibovitz
> > Dr. Seuss
> > Franz Kafka
> > Jack Kerouac
> > Malcolm X
> >
> In Australia, a list of most stolen books was published a couple of years ago.
>
> Number 1 was WSB's "Junkie". Also feautured was "On The Road". The
> Mariujuana growers handbook ranked highly, as did a lot of Henry Miller
> books.
>
> A couple of the book stores I frequent place all their "Beat" and
> "counterculture" stuff right up near the counter, to help deter thieves.
>
> Not sure what we can make from that!
>
> Glenn C.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:31:12 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bigsurs4me <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Pull My Daisy - video and CD
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Pull My Daisy was finally released to video about a year or so ago. We have
it available, as well as David Amram's CD of Pull My Daisy in our catalog. E-
mail your snail-mail address to me and we'll mail you a catalog.
Speaking of David Amram I spoke with him the other day and he informed me the
soundtrack for the Manchurian Candidate which he recorded in early 60's was
just released on CD last month for the first time. Gave it a listen last week
and it has a great jazz beat. We now carry it at $16.98.
Jerry Cimino
Fog City Facts & Fiction
1-800-KER-OUAC
www.kerouac.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 03:02:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: English major
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 04:31 PM 1/5/98 PST, greg wrote:
>Leave dry, emotionless theories to those studying dry, e
>motionless authors/poets/people. I have seen such
>analytical, super-intellectualism in three places:
>In an AOL chat room (note: never visit AOL chat rooms)
>At a talk by Jane Smiley between her (although she
>seemed anxious (to end such talk) and an english
>major in the audience. In physics' books.
Hmm, an ex-psych/soc major (now Religion/Culture)
to be exact. In respect to my original question about
Wittgenstein and Burroughs, I find it kind of funny to
be flamed for a question, that I feel, has relevance to
Burroughs and his works. I admit this topic may not
appeal to some, but the usual banal banterings of the
list don't always appeal to me either - in other words,
I don't criticize others for their posts, or the relevance
of them.
<snip>
>With good feelings all around,
Actually a bad taste in the back of my mouth would
be more suitable. I hope that your fear of "super-
intellectualism" wanes, and you learn how to effectively
use the processes of analytical/critical thinking. . .
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 03:14:47 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: English major
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:16 AM 1/6/98 -0500, Mike Rice wrote:
>I don't mind even the intellectualism, if there is nothing
>else. Something always bubbles to the fore eventually.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A perfect example of a Wittgenstein theory.
The meaning of a proposition must be understood in
terms of its context, that is, in terms of the rules
of the game of which that proposition is a part. The
key to the resolution of philosophical puzzles is the
therapeutic process of examining and describing language
in use. So, to a scientist this may mean something
entirely different than it would to an "english major." {;^>
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 05:21:11 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck <julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain
hello everyone, my name is julian, i was on this list for awhile this
summer, and now i have returned. i am from michigan, port huron, and i
am a poet, musician, artist, philosopher, and traveler. i am 18, and
have lived a life far beyond my years. i am a senior in highschool,
waiting to get out.
anyway, that's me in a few words (and from my perspective), so if there
are people who would like to respond, please do, also, if there is
ANYONE from michigan, PLEASE respond, i've nearly given up on culture
and intelligence here in the "outhouse" of the united states.
-julian
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 06:02:15 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Greg Beaver-Seitz <hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Pull My Daisy - video and CD
Content-Type: text/plain
Okay:
A few things.
a) you have all made excellent points about the necessity of language to
the study of beats.
b) i don't study the beats.
c) i admire the beats.
d) i don't attempt to mimic the beats when I write.
e) i simply write however i feel is right and it usually makes me happy.
f) for those studying the beats, i have nothing against that - not my
thing.
g) i did _not_ mean that to be a personal attack... if it had been
personal I would have said that the person who wrote the first message
was the problem.
h) the problem is the type of thinking that went into that message.
i) but that is only my problem and i don't see why everyone else is
making it their problem.
j) i am a subscriber to aol.
k) Montag15@aol.com
l) i will probably be an english major next year.
m) thank you to all those who gave me places to look for "pull my
daisy."
thank you, good night,
greg
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Ginsberg etc.
http://members.tripod.com/~Sprayberry
______________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:53:21 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: English major
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 6 Jan 1998 03:02:57 -0500 from <cake@IONLINE.NET>
A discussion on Burroughs and language is certainly appropriate for
Beat-l. In fact, it's much more of the type of discussion I had in mind
when I created the list. I hope to see more serious, academic topics
discussed on the list this year. Recently, in my opinion, the list has
become a little too chatty. There are a lot of messages that should be
private that are being posted to the list. I agree with Mike, though,
that it's better to be flexible than to be too rigid. I wouldn't want
the list to turn into a *purely* academic forum. If one insn't
interested in a thread, one can simply use the delete key.
As a reminder to everyone, I thought it might be a good idea to re-post
the scope note all of you received in the welcome message: "Beat-l is an
online discussion forum devoted to the lives and works of the writers of
the Beat Generation, especially Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg, and
William Burroughs. In addition to serving as an outlet for discussion,
Beat-l is intended to facilitate scholarly communication and to serve as
a bulletin board or calendar for poetry readings, announcements of new
publications, upcoming conferences, and related events." And as our New
Year's resolution, let's all try to remember to treat each other with
civility and respect.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:15:20 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: river city reunion
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patricia and i are having a river city reunion for two --
the cat just crashed it so now there's three
david rhaesa
at the Beat-Hotel
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:28:22 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Pull My Daisy - video and CD
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Greg Beaver-Seitz wrote:
>
> Okay:
>
> A few things.
> f) for those studying the beats, i have nothing against that - not my
> thing.
or not my thang -- the African for thing according to Tom Wolfe
david rhaesa
at the Beat-Hotel
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:55:51 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: julian
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In a message dated 98-01-06 08:35:39 EST, you write:
julian,
have lived a life far beyond my years.
~~~~not to demean your experiences, for i know not you or your life, how is it
that you have lived a life far beyond your years? traveling? thoughts? many
experiences compact into a short span of time into your town that are just
unusual for a person your age? of this i am curious.......for i am also your
age and i was under the same impression of myself up until my first semester
of college (which has since greatly humbled any sense of intelligence or
transcending the dreary plain of my high school chums, of i thought i
possessed, for the sheer immensity of the world that is beyond my senses and
experiences thus to date)....one example: being involved in a War.
PLEASE respond, i've nearly given up on culture and intelligence here in the
"outhouse" of the united states.
~~~i think there can be a certain beauty to an "outhouse", lacking
intelligence or not........perception of intelligence and culture, i think,
can be relative......it would be easy for me to generalize my podunk town that
i've lived in all my life as redneck and lacking any semblance of
intelligence.......but that would be a gross overgeneralization on my part,
for i don't know a tenth of the people here.....and intelligence is not the
end all to life......there might be an emotional tenderness to this outhouse
which puts intelligence to shame.......but what i thought i learned in high
school has made me cynical to the effect of presuming that all is void in my
little county(unless, of course, you've got less than a thousand people in
your town, which, in that case, just ignore everything previously said ;o))
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:57:22 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck <julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain
hello again everyone, i was just wondering, are there any avid
hitch-hikers out there anymore?....
sometimes i feel like i'm the only one.
please reply if you are or are willing to try it using the "buddy"
system. i am planning a fulll three month hitch all over america this
summer, and am looking for someone to do it with, because it can get
real lonely not having anyone to talk to. who knows what awaits for you
"on the road"
-julian
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:20:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <199801061557.HAA03897@f82.hotmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Im a hitchiker in my dreams, if that counts for anything. I feel too tied
down by my life to take off and also, its not very safe for girls on the
road, or thats the perception I get anyway...
On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Julian Ruck wrote:
> hello again everyone, i was just wondering, are there any avid
> hitch-hikers out there anymore?....
> sometimes i feel like i'm the only one.
> please reply if you are or are willing to try it using the "buddy"
> system. i am planning a fulll three month hitch all over america this
> summer, and am looking for someone to do it with, because it can get
> real lonely not having anyone to talk to. who knows what awaits for you
> "on the road"
> -julian
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:19:43 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: alexander supertramp
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In a message dated 98-01-06 11:01:38 EST, you write:
<< who knows what awaits for you "on the road" >>
if your name happens to be alexander supertramp, which i seriously doubt yours
is, what awaits is death.
have you ever heard that story of the emory college graduate?
brian
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:21:40 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: German
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can anyone read german on this list?
if so, i was wondering if it was at all possible that you(singular or plural)
could perhaps translate a few small poems for me from kathy acker's "my
mother: demonology"......seeing as how the book in itself is confusing enough,
i thought perhaps my comprehension of it might increase if i knew what she was
plagirizing or saying in the german parts
gracias,
brian
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:25:27 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: New Orleans
I'm planning to be in New Orleans this weekend. If anyone there would
like to have a drink, please email me at wxgbc@cunyvm.cuny.edu. I also
thought I'd go by Burroughs' house to look at that new plaque. If
whoever posted on this recently still has the address or directions to
the house, I'd appreciate it if you would post them to be at the above
address.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:48:48 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: New Orleans
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Bill, do you mean williams house here in lawrence or do you mean a house
in New orleans. There is going to be an art show of some of williams
last collaboration in art in New orleans.
If you come to lawrence, i would love to have a cuppa with you.
patricia
Bill Gargan wrote:
>
> I'm planning to be in New Orleans this weekend. If anyone there would
> like to have a drink, please email me at wxgbc@cunyvm.cuny.edu. I also
> thought I'd go by Burroughs' house to look at that new plaque. If
> whoever posted on this recently still has the address or directions to
> the house, I'd appreciate it if you would post them to be at the above
> address.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:50:12 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MATT HANNAN <MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>
Subject: Re: alexander supertramp
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I remember him. Didn't Tim Cahill or some such author recently write
a book about him?
If he read the Beats at all he apparently read Kerouac without paying
much attention to Japhy's advice to "know the woods".
Stupid way to die.
love and lilies,
matt
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: alexander supertramp
Author: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> at Internet
Date: 1/6/98 11:19 AM
In a message dated 98-01-06 11:01:38 EST, you write:
<< who knows what awaits for you "on the road" >>
if your name happens to be alexander supertramp, which i seriously doubt yours
is, what awaits is death.
have you ever heard that story of the emory college graduate?
brian
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:51:16 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sara Feustle <sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Subject: Re: German
In-Reply-To: <c2725bf1.34b25a16@aol.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Brian, I speak German fluently, and am finishing up my bachelor's degree in
it.:) I'd be happy to translate some poems for you!!!
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:03:27 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Debra di Blasi
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Debra Di Blasi
"People content to name the will's inevitable defeat `God' or `History' will
not long endure these restless stories. Di Blasi writes for the rest of us,
the comfortless unconfessed of us." - H.L. Hix
has anyone on this list read either of her two novellas below and if so,
whereever did you find them?
"Drought" or "Say What You Like"
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:09:35 +0000
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Wittgenstein?
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Thanks to Bill for his recent post on this thread. It was my understanding that
discussions like this one on Borroughs and Wittgenstein were exactly the sort of
thing that the Beat-L was for. My memory of the list two years ago was that
there was much more of it. Not everyone will be interested in every thread, but
these things open doors for the people who are looking at these issues. I love
the personal and chatty too--and have been guilty of it enough, but it is nice
to see some serious thinking on issues like this on the list again.
James
IDDHI wrote:
>
>
> Please don't take this personally, but who gives a shit? If prose was as
> sterile and ho-hum as that theory and passage above, I'd never crack a book.
>
> Gotta go read some Hank before I die of starvation.
>
> ID
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:09:06 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: alexander supertramp
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-01-06 12:06:18 EST, you write:
<< I remember him. Didn't Tim Cahill or some such author recently write
a book about him?
~~~yes, a book was written about him within the past year or two
If he read the Beats at all he apparently read Kerouac without paying
much attention to Japhy's advice to "know the woods".
~~~seriously
Stupid way to die.
~~~yes, most unfortunately
>>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:19:00 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: German
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oh most gracias to you, my newfound friend!!!!!!!!!! ;o)
the first one:
eingeweiht in der Liebe
aber erst hier-
als die Lava herabfuhr
und ihr Hauch uns traf
am Fuss des Berges,
als zuletzt der erschvpfte Krater
den Schl|ssel preisgab
f|r diese verschlossenen Kvrper-
Wir traten ein in verwunschene Ra|me
und leuchteten das Dunkelaus
mit den Fingerspitzen
another one....
Innen ist deine Hufte ein Landungssteg
f|r meine Schiffe, die heimkommen
von zu grossen Fahrten.
Das Gl|ck wirkt ein Silbertau,
an dem ich Defestigt liege.
another........
Innen ist dein Mund ein flaumiges Nest
f|r meine fl|gge werdende Zunge.
Innen ist dein Fleisch...
das ich mit meinen Trdnen wasche
und das mich einmal aufwiegen wird.
fragment...
Innen sind deine Knochen helle Flvten,
aus denen ich Tvne zaubern kann,
die auch den Tod bestricken werden...
the last one
Ich bin noch schuldig. Heb mich auf.
Ich bin nicht schuldig. Heb mich auf.
Das Eiskorn lvs vom zugefrornen Aug,
brich mit den Blicken ein,
die blauen Grunde such,
schwimm, schau und tauch:
Ich bin es nicht.
Ich bin's.
thank you very much for whatever you can translate.......very much appreciated
brian
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:20:43 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: hakim bey
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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has anyone ever read any poetry by a person named hakim bey?
brian
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:27:32 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: perhaps someone might find an interest in this
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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sorry for some of the lines missing here and there - brian
i am posting this mainly to see if anyone has a reaction........maybe some of
you have read it before....got it off of a website
THE SELF-NARRATING UNIVERSE;
THE ANTHROPIC COSMOLOGY PRINCIPLE AND POSTMODERN LITERATURE
by
David Porush
Professor of Literature
Dept. LL&C
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
Troy, New York 12180
e-mail: porusd@rpi.edu
PH: (518) 276-8262
THE ANTHROPIC COSMOLOGICAL PRINCIPLE
The earth is quite friendly to life. Were the temperatures at certain
times in evolutionary history different by only a few degrees, or were gravity
much stronger or weaker, or were we further away from the sun or any closer,
or were water less abundant than it is, or for that matter, if any of the laws
of physics operated differently than they do, then life would never have
occurred on Earth. Think of the enormous collaboration among accidents that
made evolution itself possible. It becomes easy, then, to imagine an Earth
devoid of human intelligence. Change any little aspect of nature and you get a
sterile planet. Changing even one of the constants in physics -- gravitation,
the speed of light, Planck's constant, the coupling constant of the strong
force that binds nuclei, etc. -- would make life impossible. [Wesson, 1991
Carter, 1974]
But were these series of hazards and circumstances merely accidental? Or
does the universe conspire to bring intelligence into being? Is it possible
that one of the fundamental laws of the universe is that INTELLIGENT LIFE MUST
ARISE? Or to put it another way, is it possible the universe as we know it
couldn't exist unless we knew it? Approximately twenty years ago, Brandon
Carter, a physicist and philosopher posed the problem, and initiated a debate
that has raged since then, by pointing out an aspect of nature that is
crushingly obvious and yet peculiarly postmodern: The conditions of the
universe we observe must be such that they can produce an intelligent observer
of the universe, i.e., humans.
This idea is at the same time both very disturbing and humorously
Panglossian (or Liebnizian, I guess we might say, since Voltaire based his
Pangloss on that physicist). Everything has been ordered so things come out
for the best, from our perspective anyway. "In other words," as one physicist
notes, "the universe has the properties we observe today because if its
earlier properties had been much different, we would not be here as observers
now." (Gale, 1981) This Anthropic Principle ("AP" for short) has a whole range
of possible interpretations, from a rather weak formulation to very strong
paradigm that involves metaphysical considerations, willy nilly. Weak AP
inspects various physical phenomena with an eye to noting how they were
constrained within limits that were favorable to the origin of life and to
intelligence, looking for a collection of odd or striking coincidences that
collaborate to make the human mind possible (Davies, 1982; Leslie, 1989).Thus,
weak AP is a sort of functional gatekeeper on cosmological models, reminding
the physicist that any narrative of how the cosmos came to evolve the way it
did cannot permit factors which would preclude the emergence of life and
intelligence.
By contrast, Strong AP suggests that water flows and protons and neutrons
bind and DNA molecules zip and coil as they do because these phenomena made us
possible as observers to catalog them. In other words, Strong AP suggests that
the preconditions of the universe exist because
they made it possible for us to arrive on the scene to observe them, a cosmic
variation on the question of whether a tree falling in the forest makes a
sound if noone is there is hear it. The strongest AP goes so far as to suggest
that the universe has been purposefully organized in order to produce
intelligence (Hoyle, 1984; Davies, 1983). This implies that the conditions for
making intelligence possible feed back into the system, constraining which
branches of possibility universal evolution can take.
AP has been strengthened by startling results from a variety of
scientific disciplines as well as by some interesting speculations. Sub-atomic
particle behavior; biological and chemical organization; formal set theory;
coincidences in the recurrence of certain large numbers in physical formulas
(first noted by A.P. Dirac and elevated to the status of a unifying theory by
Eddington; see Dicke, 1961); the spontaneous emergence of complex, self-
organizing systems out of chaos; fairly substantive speculations about the
role of super-ordinate fields or multi-dimensional substrates that organize
our three-dimensional material reality; and even an hypothesis that the
universe is a giant super-computer designed to solve some unspecified problem,
which sounds more like a Vonnegut paranoid fantasy than good cosmology, but it
has received quite a bit of respectable attention (see Wright's 1985
discussion of Edward Fredkin's hypothesis). In addition to theological views
that I'll explore below, these help support the case that there is something
quite special about the interplay between the forces of nature and the
existence of intelligent observers that goes well beyond the interrelationship
of observer and observed in quantum physics.
REACTING TO ANTHROPIC COSMOLOGY
Even Weak AP present several shocks to our commonsense, modernist notions
of how nature operates. The most obvious is the tautological "feel" of this
reasoning: "everything is the way it is because if it were elsewise, they
would be different (or more precisely, X, which we know to exist, would not
have come into existence)." Filling the variable X with the idea of an
intelligent observer is only a red herring, for it could just as easily be
filled by "these brown wing-tipped Oxfords."
Of course Strong AP poses even greater challenges. Common sense tells us
that the preconditions of the universe that made life possible caused life. In
what way can our presence now possibly have influenced events which came
billions of years before us? But our biases about causality are bound up in
very human ideas about the arrow of time (Lewis, 1986) Physicists know there
are many arenas of the universe where time's arrow must be viewed as moving
both forwards and backwards in order to make sense of what we know, and so can
ideas of causality. Quantum physics has exposed whole arenas of subatomic
phenomena, and astrophysics and more orthodox cosmology, have potrayed regions
around black holes where commonsense notions of causation simply do not apply.
Furthermore, quantum mechanics has already shown us that there are events
which cannot happen the way they do unless an observation is made of them.
Check your sense of time, space, and causation at the door, ladies and
gentlemen, we're entering the realm of postmodern physics.
Perhaps the most disturbing idea in AP is the tacit attribution of
teleology - an intentionality or purposiveness - to the universe. As good
modernists, we have been accustomed to view this cosmos as a blind, reeling,
entropic, contingent, godless place, an egalitarian abode (in the Copernican
sense) where the universe treats all things with equal indifference, granting
no special status or favors to anyplace or any entity, a universal play where
humanity makes a haphazard appearance on stage and yet where noone else is
watching to appreciate our performance, or for that matter, the performance of
nature's grand design.
With shocking simplicity, AP suggests the show is all for our benefit; we
are the crown of creation. It's anthropomorphization (or anthropocentralism)
on a scale we haven't seen since Medieval theology. It encourages discussions
about reconciliations between ancient beliefs in God as Primum Mobile, man as
created in God's image, and a re-unification of spiritual and scientific
knowledge, of physics and metaphysics, on grounds favorable to metaphysics
(McLean, 1991; Peacocke, 1991; Smith, 1991; Nelson, 1991). Certainly the
Anthropic Principle in its strongest or broadest formulation invites an
equation between the actions and characteristics of the Universe and some
universal Intentional Impulse, a purpose, a because. We're here because the
Universe brought us into being so we could worship (or at least observe) It.
The most cogent objection to this metaphysical brand of AP, it seems to
me, points to a sort of tautology lurking in its premise: As soon as you look
at the universe as a place with a purpose, then you are already giving it an
intention, a mind. Nonetheless, it is hard to resist the clear attraction of
an emergent paradigm the lies somewhere between anthropic cosmology and anti-
chaos or complexity which points to the inevitable creation of more complex
systems out of less complex ones -- the rise of what Wiener called local
islands of organization in the universal tide toward entropy -- which has
created galaxies and the Earth's biosphere. It is also hard to deny that human
intelligence represents the ultimate expression of that complexity, re-
centering human life as an anti-entropic force. Even a moderately weak AP
challenges the evolutionary view of how higher levels of organization and
control emerge. In moderate AP, the matehamtics of blind variation and natural
selection simply don't work out; mere accident cannot explain the remarkable
fine-tuning required for the universe to have given rise to life, let alone
human intelligence (see Balashov, 1991 for a review of this position; see
Jantsch, 1980 for a rebuttal).
There is no space here to give more than this glancing account of the
very rich literature and debate this emergent paradigm has provoked. The major
and most rigorous discussion of AP occurs in a variety of reputable physics,
astrophysics, general science, and philosophy journals. An encyclopedic
account, The Anthropic Cosmological Principle (Barrow & Tipler, 1986) received
such vociferous and voluminous reaction that one writer estimated that the
letters and reviews alone would fill another volume of equal size. I would
also refer my readers to a very good, recent summary of AP in the American
Journal of Physics (Balashov, 1991), which also serves as a resource letter
and bibliography about AP. However, for our purposes, AP begs some very
provocative questions about how we view the relations between scientific
discourse and literary narrative, and it also suggests a route to a synthesis
between them, as I hope to show in the rest of this paper.
LITERARY THEORY, NEO-CRYPTO-COPERNICANISM, AND STRONG AP: THE
SELF-NARRATING UNIVERSE
Balashov (1991) frames the foundation for the Anthropic Principle in this
intriguing way:
AP was proposed as a counterbalance to the unwarranted extension of the
Copernican view that we do not occupy a privileged place in the Universe to
its extreme dogmatic version that our place cannot be privileged in any way.
I don't think it's a stretch to suggest that most constructivists,
poststructuralists, deconstructionists and New Historicists - and therefore
much of the theory that informs debate in the humanistic disciplines today,
even, I venture, at this conference - are orthodox Copernicans in this sense
as well. We narrativists adamantly refuse to privilege any discourse or theory
or paradigm that posits an a priori term or is nostalgic for an aboriginal
source of meaning. Yet, as Balashov points out, this Copernican
egalitarianism, at least from the point of view of nature, "is obviously
untrue, since our mere existence as complex physiochemical creatures requires
certain conditions that are met only in particular sites in the Universe and
at some definite stages in its physical history."
I call this cosmological model offered by Strong AP "The Self- Narrating
Universe," since it views the Universe as struggling to give birth to
intelligence in order to create an observer exactly like us. In this scenario,
a mechanical device that registers events as they occur and merely records
data won't do. Rather, the Universe requires a decidedly human observer who
cannot help but abstract data, leap to conclusions, make metaphorical
connections, invest silence with significance ... in short, Tell the
Universe's Story based upon what it understands. I am even, at times, tempted
to call AP cosmology "The Meaning Universe" because AP does not simply portray
a world where intelligence narrates an idle series of events but rather invest
the world with meaning.
Let me indulge a personal digression for the sake of an analogy. Here at
Rensselaer I co-direct a research project - Autopoeisis - that has developed a
"story-telling program." The computer simulates a series of events and
encounters among characters in a microworld (simulator) and then recounts them
as they occur, without regard to the coherence of the story or any other
feature. Gameworld (as we affectionately call it) is no more intelligent, by
this metric, than a digital clock that "tells" time. By contrast, an
intelligent human story teller, even an unsophisticated one, chooses,
rearranges, omits, embellishes and shapes any delivery of information. One of
the questions my physician asks my five-year old son this week when he was
taking his complete physical is "Can you tell a story?" And one of the great
lessons of postmodernism for all disciplines is that there is no non-fictive
narrative, no weightless, transparent delivery of information from one human
to another. The human narrator is self-conscious and self-reflective always,
implicitly or explicitly. AP implies a world where all events are meaningfully
disposed towards creating the very intelligence that narrates them
meaningfully, like a human, not the machine, storyteller. The result is a
purposeful feedback loop, very much like postmodern stories where the function
of the story is to demonstrate how it came to be told, and where the self-
consciousness or tail-biting interplay between story and teller moves to the
foreground of the narrative. In short, Strong AP implies a world where form
and function, purpose and result, are united in the creation of an
intelligence that can tell that story. Throughout his oeuvre Samuel Beckett's
question was, "Am I the teller or the told?" AP suggests the answer to this
ontological-epistemological question is "both."
AP AND THE SYNTHESIS OF POSTMODERN SCIENCE AND LITERATURE
C.P. Snow was right, in his own fussy way. The great dialectic of our
culture is captured in the contrast between the discourses of literature and
the discourses of the sciences. But this is not a result of simple differences
in education, as C.P. Snow suggested, nor even in any hostility between
scientists and authors as Snow implied, nor even one of mere temperament.
Rather, it is the result of the devotion by scientists and litterateurs to two
different epistemologies, two different ways of expressing what they are
trying to know and two different visions of what it is valuable to know. And
these epistemological points of view are as mutually exclusive and command as
profound a commitment by their adherents as any fundamental faiths do.
A quick way to understand this dialectic is as follows: three hundred
years of science persistently excluded or de-privileged the human self as an
intentional, expressive object from scientific discourse. At the same time,
science also lacked a coherent formal model of natural language. As the result
of its rationalist inheritance and its persistent objectification of the
observer, science relies on a discourse that has had inordinate difficulty
enfolding or describing its own acts of knowing. From the very early days of
the Royal Society when Wilkins and Sprat failed in their attempt to define a
pure language of science, devoid of metaphor or embellishment, science has
never successfully purged the messiness of metaphor and the polysemy of human
language from its mise-en-scene. And while the Newtonian-Copernican-Carteisan
paradigm pretended to exile the human observer from the stage of science, we
now know that Newton's sleep was an aberrant age, a temporary hallucination
that history will undoubtedly consign to a minority view. The postmodern
sciences that bring this struggle into relief are quantum mechanics, the study
of nature at the subatomic level, and cybernetics, the study of how
information is used in systems of control and communication. By Norbert
Wiener's own account (Wiener, 1947) cybernetics grew out of a direct attempt
to remove the human mind from the picture of physics where the Heisenberg
Uncertainty Principle had placed it- to banish the human mind from the
epistemological loop. By giving an algorithm for the information required to
reduce the probablism in the sub-atomic scenario, and by proposing a
mechanical/formal explanation of control systems like the human mind,
cyberneticists like Wiener, von Neumann, and Turing hoped to create a complete
and consistent rational system that did not need a subjective observer to be
understood. Nonetheless, these two phenomena - the intelligent self (the mind)
and language - are certainly mirrors of each other. That is why Alan Turing
believed that we know a creature is intelligent when it can use language
intelligently and he positioned such a belief as the essential test of
intelligence in a machine brain, a test that still informs AI debate. Yet when
science comes to inspect the seat of intelligence, the brain/mind, it is
virtually silent on the point of self- knowledge or self-consciousness and
quite dumb on the matter of how language expresses mental events. Scientific
language reduces or eliminates all those things that make literature
interesting, exciting, stimulating -- or in a word, literary: ambiguity,
competing interpretations, silence, paranomasia, passion, multiple meanings,
mystery, and metaphor. By contrast, literature has always been, in part,
discourse that foregrounds the self using language.
So in this postmodern technological age, what I have elsewhere called the
Cybernetic Age, when the question of how the mind uses languages has come to
dominate center stage across the disciplines, a postmodern literature has
arisen to underscore this difference in discourses. If the important
literature of our age has any common feature, it is the shared attempt to
register the difficulties of using language to capture knowledge and express
experience. Some might even argue that such a concern is common to all
literatures of any age. Yet many significant postmodern authors - William
Burroughs, Samuel Beckett, Mark Leyner, Italo Calvino, Kathy Acker, Joseph
McElroy, Thomas Pynchon, John Barth, Umberto Eco, Don DeLillo, Donald
Barthelme, Robert Coover, Marianne Hauser, Laurie Anderson, William Gibson,
Bruce Sterling, Philip K. Dick, Kurt Vonnegut, Jr., among others - record
their struCybernetic Age, when the question of how the mind uses languages has
come to dominate center stage across the disciplines, a postmodern literature
has arisen to underscore this difference in discourses.
The motivation behind this choice of cybernetics is fairly obvious: after
all, the cybernetics of Norbert Weiner, John von Neumann, and Alan Turing
claimed to develop a rational and complete system for formalizing
communication and information, especially human communication: in short, the
very stuff of what literature claims as its own. However, in its relatively
naive attempt to formulate a mathematics of information, science discovered
something that all literary acts express tacitly: Information cannot be
understood in a vacuum. Any significant communication cannot be calculated,
let alone deciphered, apart from the disposition of the system of meaning in
which it is imbedded. Indeed, as the literary text always signals, information
is context. When treated as a simple quantity, information literally doesn't
"make sense." You can refine the way telephones transmit information, but you
can do little to make sense of what the information means to the people
conversing on either end of the line.
For the postmodern author, negating this premise is simple. The author
needs merely to use language with such a degree of complexity and meaningful
indecipherability that he or she exposes the impossibility of creating a
formal system to account for the amount of information in, say, even a single
metaphor or turn of phrase. The message of these "cybernetic" (or better,
"anti-cybernetic") fictions is clear: the artistic use of language offers a
more complete, if irrational, discourse about the facts of our experience,
including our experience of phenomena outside ourselves. In brief, what marks
literary epistemology is a discourse which is explicitly concerned with itself
as an act of human knowledge. As Julia Kristeva quipped, "The purpose of
literature is to enlarge the domain of the human." In an era when the prospect
of intelligent machines and the technologization or automation of human
experience looms large, literature has a special urgency in pressing back.
In the intervening years, conventional science has done little to address
this important distinction between information and meaning, or to paraphrase
cyberneticist Gordon Pask, between a stipulation of a system's message and its
purpose. In literary terms, we would say merely that science lacks an account
of its own point of view. Science has no formulation for the fact of its own
intelligent narrative that is as satisfying or as comfortable as the ones we
normally assume in narrative disciplines like literature, where the fact of
the human mind as both object and subject of discourse is the predicate for
all other work.
I view this tension in science between the mind's meaningful narration
and what it purports to observe, both in the external world and the internal ,
mental world as THE postmodern question, informing not only the sciences but
giving a fertile territory for much of the interesting literature of our
period. In essence, into the gap created by science's own inability to deal
with the fact of the observer, rushes a postmodern literary program: to prove
the relative epistemological potency of literature in the face of a general
epistemological impotence of any other rational program. In other words,
postmodern authors like Pynchon, Barth, Beckett, Acker, and many others have
made irrational hay while the rational sun of science still shines.
Now, science's own methods have brought it to confront, almost despite
itself, the question of the proper relation between mind and nature, and
between the discourse of mind and the order of the cosmos. As a result, AP
suggests a strong and more-than-metaphorical correspondence between the
concerns of postmodern literature and science. Both Weak and Strong AP are
united by the need to develop a formal model of the universe that will enfold
or account for the existence of the human mind, as opposed to relying on
formal mathematical descriptions of the dynamics of matter and energy
interactions or of neutral information in a system. Rather than focusing on
interactions among things in space-time or on the properties of spacetime
itself, AP inspects all data in terms of how well it explains the fact of
human intelligence, indeed the very same human intelligence that is
examiningthose facts. Thus AP is a scientific paradigm that reads like a self-
reflexive postmodern
fiction. So AP - an expressly postmodern science - shares an epistemological
ideal with postmodern literature:
PORUSH'S PRINCIPLE OF EPISTEMOLOGICAL POTENCY
Descriptions of any intelligent system (and the Universe is obviously
one; fictional texts create others) in order to achieve epistemolgoical
potency must include accounts not only of how the system is regulated and
organized, and of how it communicates among its own parts, but also of how it
knows and describes itself.
In other words, Any epistemologically potent system must include a
discourse that enfolds its own intelligence.
The Cosmic Anthropic Principle, then, suggests a pure synthesis on the
level of meaningful narrative between the two epistemologies of literature and
science by offering the first scientific paradigm to embrace itself as an act
of human knowledge. AP is struggling to describe how the human narrative of
the cosmos is not mere reportage but fundamentally creative of and essential
to the structure of reality.
SOURCES CITED
Barrow, J.D. and F.J. Tipler, 1986 The Anthropic Cosmological Principle
Clarendon, Oxford.
Balashov, Y.V. 1991 "Resource Letter AP-1: The anthropic pricniple," Am.
J. Physics 59 (12):1069-1076
Campbell, J. 1989 The Improbable Machine Simon & Schuster, New York.
Carter, Brandon 1974 "Large Number Coincidences and the Anthropic
Principle in Cosmology," Confrontation of Cosmological Theories with
Observational Data: Proceedings of the Second Copernicus Symposium ,
edited by M.A. Longair. D. Reidel Publishing Co, 1974.
Dicke, R.H. 1961 "Dirac's Cosmology and Mach's Principle," Nature 192
440-441
Davies, P.C. W. 1982 The Accidental Universe Cambridge UP.
Davies, P. 1983 God and the New Physics (Dent & Sons, London 1983)
Gale, George 1981 "The Anthropic Principle," Scientific American 243,
6:154-171
Jantsch, E. 1980 The Self-Organizing Universe Pergamon, Oxford.
Leslie, J. 1989 Universes. Routledge, London & New York.
Leslie, J. 1991 "Time and the Anthropic Principle," Mind 101,
403:525-540.
Lewis, David 1986 "Counterfactual Dependence and Time's Arrows," in his
Philosophical Papers , II. Oxford, Oxford University Press: 32-66.
McLean, Murdith 1991 "Residual Natural Evil and Anthropic Reasoning," J.
Rel.
Stud 27:173-188.
Nelson, James S. 1991 "Does Science Clarify God's Relation to the
World?" Zygon 26,4::519-525
Peacocke, Arthur, 1991 "God's Action in the Real World," Zygon 26,
4::455-476
Pochet, T. et al. 1991 "The binding of light nuclei and the anthropic
principle," Astronomy & Astrophysics 243:1-4
Porush, D. 1985 The Soft Machine: Cybernetic Fiction , Methuen, London,
1985.
Porush, D. 1988 "Whatever Happened to Nature in the Postmodern Novel:
The Three Umpires Conundrum" in Perceiving Nature edited by D.M. DeLuca.
Honolulu, 1988: 178-185.
Smith, Quentin 1991 "The Anthropic Coincidences, Evil, and the
Disconfirmation of Theism" J. Rel. Stud 29:347-350
Wesson, Paul S. "Constants and Cosmology: The Nature and Origin of
Fundamental Constants in Astrophysics and Particle Physics" Phys. Rev
365-406
Winograd, T. 1981 "What Does it Mean to Understand Language?" in Donald
Norman, ed. Perspectives on Cognitive Science. Norwood, N.J: Ablex
Publishing.
Wright, R. 1985 "The On -Off Universe," The Sciences (Jan/Feb) 7.
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The Need for Transcendence in the Postmodern World
In this postmodern world, cultural conflicts are becoming more dangerous than
any time in history. A new model of coexistence is needed, based on man's
transcending himself.
By Vaclav Havel
There are thinkers who claim that, if the modern age began with the discovery
of America, it also ended in America. This is said to have occurred in the
year 1969, when America sent the first men to the moon. From this historical
moment, they say, a new age in the life of humanity can be dated.
I think there are good reasons for suggesting that the modern age has ended.
Today, many things indicate that we are going thorough a transitional period,
when it seems that something is on the way out and something else is painfully
being born. It is as if something were crumbling, decaying, and exhausting
itself, while something else, still indistinct, were arising from the rubble.
Periods of history when values undergo a fundamental shift are certainly not
unprecedented. This happened in the Hellenistic period, when from the ruins of
the classical world the Middle Ages were gradually born. It happened during
the Renaissance, which opened the way to the modern era. The distinguishing
features of such transitional periods are a mixing and blending of cultures
and a plurality or parallelism of intellectual and spiritual worlds. These are
periods when all consistent value systems collapse, when cultures distant in
time and space are discovered or rediscovered. They are periods when there is
a tendency to quote, to imitate, and to amplify, rather than to state with
authority or integrate. New meaning is gradually born from the encounter, or
the intersection, of many different elements.
Today, this state of mind or of the human world is called postmodernism. For
me, a symbol of that state is a Bedouin mounted on a camel and clad in
traditional robes under which he is wearing jeans, with a transistor radio in
his hands and an ad for Coca-Cola on the camel's back. I am not ridiculing
this, nor am I shedding an intellectual tear over the commercial expansion of
the West that destroys alien cultures. I see it rather as a typical expression
of this multicultural era, a signal that an amalgamation of cultures is taking
place. I see it as proof that something is happening, something is being born,
that we are in a phase when one age is succeeding another, when everything is
possible. Yes, everything is possible, because our civilization does not have
its own unified style, its own spirit, its own aesthetic.
Science and Modern Civilization
This is related to the crisis, or to the transformation, of science as
the basis of the modern conception of the world.The dizzying development of
this science, with its unconditional faith in objective reality and its
complete dependency on general and rationally knowable laws, led to the birth
of modern technological civilization. It is the first civilization in the
history of the human race that spans the entire globe and firmly binds
together all human societies, submitting them to a common global destiny. It
was this science that enabled man, for the first time, to see each objective
reality and its complete dependency on general and rationally knowable
At the same time, however, the relationship to the world that the modern
science fostered and shaped now appears to have exhausted its potential. It is
increasingly clear that, strangely, the relationship is missing something. It
fails to connect with the most intrinsic nature of reality and with natural
human experience. It is now more of a source of disintegration and doubt than
a source of integration and meaning. It produces what amounts to a state of
schizophrenia: Man as an observer is becoming completely alienated from
himself as a being.
Classical modern science described only the surface of things, a single
dimension of reality. And the more dogmatically science treated it as the only
dimension, as the very essence of reality, the more misleading it became.
Today, for instance, we may know immeasurably more about the universe than our
ancestors did, and yet, it increasingly seems they knew something more
essential about it than we do, something that escapes us. The same thing is
true of nature and of ourselves. The more thoroughly all our organs and their
functions, their internal structure, and the biochemical reactions that take
place within them are described, the more we seem to fail to grasp the spirit,
purpose, and meaning of the system that they create together and that we
experience as our unique "self".
And thus today we find ourselves in a paradoxical situation. We enjoy all the
achievements of modern civilization that have made our physical existence on
this earth easier so in many important ways. Yet we do not know exactly what
to do with ourselves, where to turn. The world of our experiences seems
chaotic, disconnected, confusing. There appear to be no integrating forces, no
unified meaning, no true inner understanding of phenomena in our experience of
the world. Experts can explain anything in the objective world to us, yet we
understand our own lives less and less. In short, we live in the postmodern
world, where everything is possible and almost nothing is certain.
When Nothing is Certain
This state of affairs has its social and political consequences. The single
planetary civilization to which we all belong confronts us with global
challenges. We stand helpless before them because our civiliza
planetary civilization to which we all belong confronts us with global
challenges. We stand helpless before them because our civilization has
essentially globalized only the surfaces of our lives. But our inner self
continues to have a life of its own. And the fewer answers the era of rational
knowledge provides to the basic questions of human Being, the more deeply it
would seem that people, behind its back as it were, cling to the ancient
certainties of their tribe. Because of this, individual cultures, increasingly
lumpe
Cultural conflicts are increasing and are understandably more dangerous today
than at any other time in history. The end of the era of rationalism has been
catastrophic. Armed with the same supermodern
weapons, often from the same suppliers, and followed by television cameras,
the members of various tribal cults are at war with one another. By day, we
work with statistics; in the evening, we consult astrologers and frighten
ourselves with thrillers about vampires. The abyss between rational and the
spiritual, the external and the internal, the objective and the subjective,
the technical and the moral, the universal and the unique, constantly grows
deeper.
Politicians are rightly worried by the problem of finding the key to ensure
the survival of a civilization that is global and at the same time clearly
multicultural. How can generally respected mechanisms of
peaceful coexistence be set up, and on what set of principles are they to be
established?
These questions have been highlighted with particular urgency by the two most
important political events in the second half of the twentieth century: the
collapse of colonial hegemony and the fall of communism. The artificial world
order of the past decades has collapsed, and a new, more-just order has not
yet emerged. the central political task of the final years of this century,
then, is the creation of a new model of coexistence among the various
cultures, peoples, races, and religious spheres within a single interconnected
civilization. This task is all the more urgent because other threats to
contemporary humanity brought about by one-dimensional development of
civilization are growing more serious all the time.
Many believe this task can be accomplished through technical means. That is,
they believe it can be accomplished through the intervention of new
organizational, political, and diplomatic instruments. Yes, it is clearly
necessary to invent organizational structures appropriate to the present
multicultural age. But such efforts are doomed to failure if they do not grow
out of something deeper, out of generally held values.
This, too, is well known. And in searching for the most natural source for the
creation of a new world order, we usually look to an area that is the
traditional foundation of modern justice and a great achievement of the modern
age: to a set of values that - among other things - were first declared in
this building (Independence Hall). I am referring to respect for the unique
human being and his or her liberties and inalienable rights and to the
principle that all power derives from the people. I am, in short, referring to
the fundamental ideas of modern democracy.
What I am about to say may sound provocative, but I feel more and more
strongly that even these ideas are not enough, that we must go farther and
deeper. The point is that the solution they offer is still, as it were,
modern, derived from the climate of the Enlightenment and from a view of man
and his relation to the world that has been characteristic of the Euro-
American sphere for the last two centuries. Today, however, we are in a
different place and facing a different situation, one to which classical
modern solutions in themselves do not give a satisfactory response. After all,
the very principle of inalienable human rights, conferred on man by the
Creator, grew out of the typically modern notion that man - as a being capable
of knowing nature and the world - was the pinnacle of creation and lord of the
world,
This modern anthropocentrism inevitably meant that He who allegedly endowed
man with his inalienable rights began to disappear from the world: He was so
far beyond the grasp of modern science that he was gradually pushed into a
sphere of privacy of sorts, if not directly into a sphere of private fancy -
that is, to a place where public obligations no longer apply. The existence of
a higher authority than man himself simply began to get in the way of human
aspirations.
Two Transcendent Ideas
The idea of human rights and freedoms must be an integral part of any
meaningful world order. Yet, I think it must be anchored in a different place,
and in a different way, than has been the case so far. If it is to be more
than just a slogan mocked by half the world, it cannot be expressed in the
language of a departing era, and it must not be mere froth floating on the
subsiding waters of faith in a purely scientific relationship to the
world.Paradoxically, inspiration for the renewal of this lost integrity can
once again be found in science, in a science that is new - let us say
postmodern - a science producing ideas that in a certain sense allow it to
transcend its own limits. I will give two examples:
The first is the Anthropic Cosmological Principle. Its authors and adherents
have pointed out that from the countless possible courses of its evolution the
universe took the only one that enabled life to
emerge. This is not yet proof that the aim of the universe has always been
that it should one day see itself through our eyes. But adherents have pointed
out that from t
I think the Anthropic Cosmological Principle brings to us an idea perhaps as
old as humanity itself: that we are not at all just an accidental anomaly, the
microscopic caprice of a tine particle whirling in the endless depth of the
universe. Instead, we are mysteriously connected to the entire universe, we
are mirrored in it, just as the entire evolution of the universe is mirrored
in us.
Until recently, it might have seemed that we were an unhappy bit of mildew on
a heavenly body whirling in space among many that have no mildew on them at
all. this was something that classical science could explain. Yet, the moment
it begins to appear that we are deeply connected to the entire universe,
science reaches the outer limits of its powers. Because it is founded on the
search for universal laws, it cannot deal with singularity, that is, with
uniqueness. The universe is a unique event and a unique story, and so far we
are the unique point of that story. But unique events and stories are the
domain of poetry, not science. With the formulation of the Anthropic
Cosmological Principle, science has found itself on the border between formula
and story, between science and myth. In that, however, science has
paradoxically returned, in a roundabout way, to man, and offers him - in new
clothing - his lost integrity. It does so by anchoring him once more in the
cosmos.
The second example is the Gaia Hypothesis. This theory brings together proof
that the dense network of mutual interactions between the organic and
inorganic portions of the earth's surface form a single system, a kind of
mega-organism, a living planet - Gaia - named after an ancient goddess who is
recognizable as an archetype of the Earth Mother in perhaps all religions.
According to the Gaia Hypothesis, we are parts of a greater whole. If we
endanger her, she will dispense with us in the interest of a higher value -
that is, life itself.
Toward Self-Transcendence
What makes the Anthropic Principle and the Gaia Hypothesis so inspiring? One
simple thing: Both remind us, in modern language, of what we have long
suspected, of what we have long projected into our forgotten myths and perhaps
what has always lain dormant within us as archetypes. That is, the awareness
of our being anchored in the earth and the universe, the awareness that we are
not here alone nor for ourselves alone, but that we are an integral part of
higher, mysterious entities against whom it is not advisable to blaspheme.
This forgotten awareness is encoded in all religions. All cultures anticipate
it in various forms. It is one of the things that form the basis of man's
understanding of himself, of his place in the world, and ultimately of the
world as such.A modern philosopher once said: "Only a God can save us now."
Yes, the only real hope of people today is probably a renewal of our certainty
that we are rooted in the earth and, at the same time, in the cosmos. This
awareness endows us with the capacity for
self-transcendence. Politicians at international forums may reiterate a
thousand times that the basis of the new world order must be universal
respects for human rights, but it will mean nothing as long as this imperative
does not derive from the respect of the miracle of Being, the miracle of the
universe, the miracle of nature, the miracle of our own existence. Only
someone who submits to the authority of the universal order and of creation,
who values the right to be a part of it and a participant in it, can genuinely
value himself and his neighbors, and thus honor their rights as well.
It logically follows that, in today's multicultural world, the truly reliable
path to coexistence, to peaceful coexistence and creative cooperation, must
start from what is at the root of all cultures and what lies infinitely deeper
in human hearts and minds than political opinion, convictions, antipathies, or
sympathies - it must be rooted in self-transcendence:
Transcendence as a hand reached out to those close to us, to foreigners, to
the human community, to all living creatures, to nature, to the universe.
Transcendence as a deeply and joyously experienced need to be in harmony even
with what we ourselves are not, what we do not understand, what seems distant
from us in time and space, but with which we are nevertheless mysteriously
linked because, together with us, all this constitutes a single world.
Transcendence as the only real alternative to extinction.
The Declaration of Independence states that the Creator gave man the right to
liberty. It seems man can realize that liberty only if he does noto liberty.
It seems man can realize that
About the Author
Vaclav Havel is the president of the Czech Republic. The speech was made in
Independence Hall, Philadelphia, July 4, 1994.
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From: Greg Beaver-Seitz <hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Pull My Daisy - video and CD
Content-Type: text/plain
>> A few things.
>> f) for those studying the beats, i have nothing against that - not my
>> thing.
>
>or not my thang -- the African for thing according to Tom Wolfe
>
>david rhaesa
>at the Beat-Hotel
>
what?
-Greg
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:38:31 PST
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From: Greg Beaver-Seitz <hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: hitch-hiking....
Content-Type: text/plain
I would love to hitchhike and I planned to start doing so last summer...
but ended up, well as things always end up, never started and never
finished.
I always wondered if there's still a lot of people out there picking up
hitchers, it doesn't seem like there's a lot of people in our nation who
would be willing to risk life and limb to get someone a ride.
Anyhow, feel free to stop by Stillwater Minnesota (near st
paul/minneapolis) if your hitching next summer.
-greg
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:40:11 PST
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From: Greg Beaver-Seitz <hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: alexander supertramp
Content-Type: text/plain
>
><< who knows what awaits for you "on the road" >>
>
>if your name happens to be alexander supertramp, which i seriously
doubt yours
>is, what awaits is death.
>
>have you ever heard that story of the emory college graduate?
>
>
>brian
>
that is an increbile story... that's all there is to it, makes you
realize that if wandering out and living an honest life is your thing,
it's not impossible.
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:41:10 -0500
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From: Judith Campbell <judith@BOONDOCK.COM>
Subject: Bookwoman goes Beat
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This is a work in progress, should be finished this week. Let me know
what you think.
http://boondock.com/bookwoman/
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:48:52 PST
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From: Greg Beaver-Seitz <hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: alexander supertramp
Content-Type: text/plain
Jon Krackaurer (correct spelling?) wrote a book called "Into the Wild"
about Alexander Supertramp. It is an excellent book, well researched
with extensive interviews of the many people supertramp touched during
the two years between "dissappearing" and "reappearing" dead in the
Alaskan wilderness.
Krackaurer is an expert mountain climber and outdoorsman, a writer for
Outside magazine. You might know of his most recent expeditition, he was
one of the few who survived the summit trip of Mt. Everest in which a
blizzard killed several people. He wrote a book about it of course,
which I have not read.
Anyway, "Into the Wild" is a great book and I don't think dying in the
Alaskan wilderness is a stupid way to die. I think a stupid way to die
is from a heart-attack at age forty because of twenty years of stress
brought on by suburbia and corporate work.
He may have screwed up living in the wilderness, but you CAN NOT screw
up simply by dying in the wilderness.
-Greg
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:53:42 EST
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From: Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: alexander supertramp
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-01-06 12:45:35 EST, you write:
<< that is an increbile story... that's all there is to it, makes you
realize that if wandering out and living an honest life is your thing,
it's not impossible. >>
perhaps incredible to an extent, but also to make you realize that if not
impossible, at least makes sure that you plan on doing with an intelligent
manner at the same time.....by all my best intuitions, i fully realize if i
were to attempt that right now, i'd probably wind up dying as well.......but
that's just inexperience on top of everything else.....
brian
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:53:53 -0500
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From: Susan L Dean <deansusa@PILOT.MSU.EDU>
Subject: hitch-hiking
Content-Type: text/plain
I realize that this isn't _exactly_ the same as hitch-hiking, but given the
state of the country today, it may be an acceptable alternative...
During the summer of 96', a friend of mine bought an unlimited pass from
Greyhound (I don't remember how much it cost) and spent the summer seeing the
country. He still had a great adventure and met lots of interesting people, but
he just didn't actually hitch rides from people. The way I understand the pass
is that you can go anywhere you want, anytime, until the pass expires.
I would love to do it someday, but I agree with whoever said that its probably
more dangerous for a young woman out there.
This is my first post to the list...next time I'll try for something a little
more on topic!
Susan
P.S. Julian-As far as cities in Michigan go, Port Huron isn't so bad! I've
lived in Michigan pretty much my whole life, and have seen far worse. If you
go to college, you'll find more of the kind of people that you seek. Perhaps
even some of the people that you know right now will become enlightened as they
mature also.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:58:35 -0500
Reply-To: "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@uwaterloo.ca>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Burroughs, Wittgenstein
In-Reply-To: <199801060802.DAA29006@ionline.net>
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I want to speak out wholeheartedly in support of Mike's queries regarding
Wittgenstein and Burroughs-- two major thinkers on language in our
century. I can only assume that anyone that would dismiss this kind of
question hasn't read any Burroughs, or doesn't care to think about what
they've read. Burroughs was as much of a language theorist as anyone, and
his ideas can be batted around with those who explored language in a
non-fictional setting. I've only had a chance to read the first chapter of
"Wising up the Marks" and this is exactly what's going on in that book.
Burroughs has referred to himself as a pure scientist, risking his sanity
on forays of investigative research into bizarre psychological,
linguistic, and pharmacological realms. Sometimes in his more theoretical
passages, it even reads like a textbook.
When Sherri said:
"and i agree that Burroughs whole take on language could be viewed as a
study of semiotics."
she was bang on. If you want to see Burroughs on semiotics, read "the book
of breeething", a study in glyphic languages, sign systems, and Hassan I
Sabbah. Or, I refer you to my post on Brion Gysin's work in "The
Exterminator":
"The idea, as far as I can tell, is that Gysin rubs out the word by first
permutating phrases so that they lose any singular meaning, becoming
merely an arrangement yielding polysemous underpinnings when mixed; and
secondly by a semiotic shift to typographic symbols, which shifts the
signifier/signified relationship from letter-phonetic based
representations with their aural basis to a purely visual sign. The word
is finally rubbed out when words are lost to calligraphy without meaning,
writing without communication, signifiers without a signified."
Sure, affective fallacy is great, but its fun to use your brain sometimes
too.
And for the person whose only exposure to serious thought about language
is through an AOL chat room, maybe you would learn more about what you
despise if you actually read a book. I suggest Wittgenstein or Derrida for
fun.
Neil
Double Major - English Literature & Computer Science.
"Whenever I bring up philosophy you always get a headache!"
"What do you know about Wittgenstein or any of the greats?"
"He's read the brown book once and thinks he knows philosophy."
The Toronto Research Group
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:08:27 -0500
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From: "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: New Orleans
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At 11:25 AM 1/6/98 EST, Bill Gargan wrote:
>If whoever posted on this recently still has
>the address or directions to the house, I'd appreciate
>it if you would post them to be at the above
>address.
Hey Bill,
According to _Tribe_ magazine, the address is:
509 Wagner St. in Algiers.
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 16:27:31 -0500
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From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: alexander supertramp
In-Reply-To: <199801061748.JAA06563@f135.hotmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>Greg Beaver-Seitz wrote
>Anyway, "Into the Wild" is a great book and I don't think dying in the
>Alaskan wilderness is a stupid way to die. I think a stupid way to die
>is from a heart-attack at age forty because of twenty years of stress
>brought on by suburbia and corporate work.
>He may have screwed up living in the wilderness, but you CAN NOT screw
>up simply by dying in the wilderness.
>
>-Greg
Interesting comments Greg.
I just read Krackaurer's book. However, as one who has spent a little time
in the wilderness I must say that anyone who walks into an Alaskan
"wildernerss" with a few books, a 22 rifle and 25 pounds of rice is asking
for trouble. That Alex was an intelligent young man made his decision even
sadder.
I take exception to your last comment "... you CAN NOT screw up simply by
dying in the wilderness." The only time you haven't screwed up if you die
in the wilderness, is if you die of old age. Any death that could be
avoided by living intelligently is a stupid way to die.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:50:03 EST
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From: Zucchini4 <Zucchini4@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: alexander supertramp
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Ok, I'll take the bait... who exactly is Alexander Supertramp?
And while I'm asking... Has anybody here heard of a poet named Karen Fish? Not
very beat, but still an excellent excellent writer (who unfortunately is a
little hard to find...the books I mean.)
--Stephanie
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:53:47 -0500
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From: mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
In-Reply-To: <199801061557.HAA03897@f82.hotmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 07:57 AM 1/6/98 PST, you wrote:
> hello again everyone, i was just wondering, are there any avid
>hitch-hikers out there anymore?....
> sometimes i feel like i'm the only one.
> please reply if you are or are willing to try it using the "buddy"
>system. i am planning a fulll three month hitch all over america this
>summer, and am looking for someone to do it with, because it can get
>real lonely not having anyone to talk to. who knows what awaits for you
>"on the road"
>-julian
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
Julian, aren't you the 18 year old kid who has experience
beyond your years. You're about to start a flame war with
your provocative remarks. I'm looking forward to it, it could
be a doozy.
Mike Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:01:45 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Florian Cramer <cantsin@ZEDAT.FU-BERLIN.DE>
Subject: Re: German
In-Reply-To: <6ddad5b8.34b26786@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Kindlesan wrote:
> oh most gracias to you, my newfound friend!!!!!!!!!! ;o)
>
> the first one:
>
> eingeweiht in der Liebe
> aber erst hier-
> als die Lava herabfuhr
> und ihr Hauch uns traf
> am Fuss des Berges,
> als zuletzt der erschvpfte Krater
> den Schl|ssel preisgab
> f|r diese verschlossenen Kvrper-
initiated into love
but only here
when lava came down
and its breath (/breeze) touched us
at the base of the mountain
when the exhausted crater finally
divulged the key
for these locked (/sealed) bodies-
We entered spellbound rooms
and shed light on the darkness
with our fingertips
>
> Wir traten ein in verwunschene Ra|me
> und leuchteten das Dunkelaus
> mit den Fingerspitzen
>
>
> another one....
>
> Innen ist deine Hufte ein Landungssteg
> f|r meine Schiffe, die heimkommen
> von zu grossen Fahrten.
>
> Das Gl|ck wirkt ein Silbertau,
> an dem ich Defestigt liege.
>
Inside your hip is a landing stage
for my ships coming home
from overly long journeys (/voyage).
Joy (/fortune) weaves a silver rope,
to which I am anchored.
> another........
>
> Innen ist dein Mund ein flaumiges Nest
> f|r meine fl|gge werdende Zunge.
> Innen ist dein Fleisch...
>
> das ich mit meinen Trdnen wasche
> und das mich einmal aufwiegen wird.
>
Inside your mouth is a downy nest
for my tongue becoming able to fly.
Inside is your flesh....
that I rinse with my tears
and that will balance me out (/sustain me) some day.
> fragment...
>
> Innen sind deine Knochen helle Flvten,
> aus denen ich Tvne zaubern kann,
> die auch den Tod bestricken werden...
>
Inside your bones are bright flutes
I can conjure tunes out of,
which will also charm death...
> the last one
>
> Ich bin noch schuldig. Heb mich auf.
> Ich bin nicht schuldig. Heb mich auf.
>
> Das Eiskorn lvs vom zugefrornen Aug,
> brich mit den Blicken ein,
> die blauen Grunde such,
> schwimm, schau und tauch:
>
> Ich bin es nicht.
> Ich bin's.
I am still guilty. Take me up.
I am not guilty. Take me up.
Remove the ice grain from my frozen eye,
break in with your glance,
look for the blue grounds,
swim, look, and dive.
It's not me
It's me.
>
> thank you very much for whatever you can translate.......very much appreciated
> brian
As a kraut, I bet this is no canonical literature, but some
lowbrow/vanity press/highschool stuff. Acker once had a German
boyfriend, maybe he or his circle of friends are connected to the
"source".
Florian
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:12:05 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Florian Cramer <cantsin@ZEDAT.FU-BERLIN.DE>
Subject: Re: German
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.3.96.980106233129.12006C-100000@komma.fddi2.fu-berlin.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Florian Cramer wrote:
> Inside your hip is a landing stage
Correction: Your hip is a landing stage inside(!)
Florian
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:22:09 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: GYENIS <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: pre-Beat, post-Beat, and Beat
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Hi,
I put out DHARMA beat, A Jack Kerouac newsletter, and am looking for somebody
to do an article on Post beat writers, who carry on the beat
tradition....whatever that may mean. Are you interested in writing something?
The article is pertinent now that the main triad has passed on. Let me know.
peace, Attila
In a message dated 97-05-23 08:36:05 EDT, you write:
<< Another idea -- has this been discussed yet? -- is the post-Beats. Yeah we
can debate about whether or not the Beat Generation ended when Kerouac
appeared on the Tonight Show or death of Ginsberg or whatever, but out of
all the literary movements since (and what are the big ones?), who out there
have been clearly influenced by the Beats?
For one, there seems to be a new cyber-psychedelic movement of writers
emerging in this decade, with Howard Rheingold, Terence McKenna and Douglas
Rushkoff being the first to come to mind, and they seem to be directly next
in line with Tim Leary & Albert Hoffman, decending down from the Whole Earth
60s, also heavily borrowing from Alan Watts philosophies with a hefty dose
of (non-Beat) tech reporting a la Steven Levy's _Hackers_ thrown in for good
measure.
What else post-Beat is going on, someone care to tell me. I always thought
Bret Easton Ellis took the structure of _Visions of Cody_ to heart when he
wrote _The Rules of Attraction_ (one of his finest works). I wonder what
he'd say about that. >>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 15:22:36 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Greg Beaver-Seitz <hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain
>At 07:57 AM 1/6/98 PST, you wrote:
>> hello again everyone, i was just wondering, are there any avid
>>hitch-hikers out there anymore?....
>> sometimes i feel like i'm the only one.
>> please reply if you are or are willing to try it using the "buddy"
>>system. i am planning a fulll three month hitch all over america this
>>summer, and am looking for someone to do it with, because it can get
>>real lonely not having anyone to talk to. who knows what awaits for
you
>>"on the road"
>>-julian
>>
>>______________________________________________________
>>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>>
>>
>Julian, aren't you the 18 year old kid who has experience
>beyond your years. You're about to start a flame war with
>your provocative remarks. I'm looking forward to it, it could
>be a doozy.
>
>Mike Rice
>
How is what Julian said going to provoke a flame war???
-greg
______________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:22:15 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: GYENIS <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Kerouac's Birthday
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Hello:
Two things,
Kerouac's Birthday is coming up in March so you should start planning some
event in your area, like a Kerouac reading, movie, lecture, appreciation, get
together.
second, if you have a Kerouac event, or know about one, please let me know so
I could include it in the calender I have on the web at
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/kerouaczin/calender.html
">http://members.aol.com/kerouaczin/calender.html</A>
and also include it in DHARMA beat's next issue, due out in March.
Always looking for people to write articles about Kerouac, his life, and his
writings.
thanks, and enjoy,
Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 15:32:49 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Greg Beaver-Seitz <hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: alexander supertramp
Content-Type: text/plain
>>Anyway, "Into the Wild" is a great book and I don't think dying in the
>>Alaskan wilderness is a stupid way to die. I think a stupid way to die
>>is from a heart-attack at age forty because of twenty years of stress
>>brought on by suburbia and corporate work.
>>He may have screwed up living in the wilderness, but you CAN NOT screw
>>up simply by dying in the wilderness.
>>
>>-Greg
>
>Interesting comments Greg.
>
>I just read Krackaurer's book. However, as one who has spent a little
time
>in the wilderness I must say that anyone who walks into an Alaskan
>"wildernerss" with a few books, a 22 rifle and 25 pounds of rice is
asking
>for trouble. That Alex was an intelligent young man made his decision
even
>sadder.
>
>I take exception to your last comment "... you CAN NOT screw up simply
by
>dying in the wilderness." The only time you haven't screwed up if you
die
>in the wilderness, is if you die of old age. Any death that could be
>avoided by living intelligently is a stupid way to die.
Differing points of view. I agree that it would be better to die in the
wilderness of old age than of poison berries but a friend of mine (who
has also read the book) agreed that we think his way of dying was
admirable if nothing else. Alex died because of his own mistakes, his
own lack of ability. That is the best way to die. To be completely in
control of whether you live or die is life, anything else... just isn't.
Maybe I miswrote in my earlier post.. it was not a stupid way, it was a
mistake-filled, inexperience caused way but not stupid. It was
definitely an admirable way to live an and admirable way to die. I am
not planning on going out and living in the wild until I eventually
screw up and die so that I can die knowing that I brought it upon
myself. But I will admire Supertramp for being in control of every
aspect of his life and death.
I hope I have made myself clear, I dont' really feel that I have.
-Greg
ps. In response to the question about who Alexander Supertramp was I
dn't feel I really can say.
A few brief facts: he (I think)graduated from college a wealthy young
man. He had $25000 in his checking account which he donated to charity.
His parents called his phone number at school after not hearing anything
out of him for a few weeks and discovered he hadn't been there for quite
a while.
They heard nothing of him for two years until his body was found by an
abandoned trailer in the middle of the Alaskan bush.
The author essentially tracked down where Supertramp (the name he took
after leaving school) had been those two years and discovered he had
affected a lot of people in a lot of ways.
That's all I really want to get into, a remarkable true story.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:25:41 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck <julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: julian
Content-Type: text/plain
to the person who spoke to me about exactly caused me to end up "beyond
my years"
i have lived basically homeless for 4 years, and am only 18, i have
lived with two teachers, a lover, three wiccan friends, in a half-way
house, and anywhere else you can imagine, of done abit of one-man
hitchhiking, which gives you a lot of time to learn about yourself and
think...
until recently, i never had many friens, and i liked it that way, i
just read a few books a week, staying up to see the sun-rise, and then
go to school....
also, i am bisexual, and open about it...
that is probably the most influential aspect of my growth, in that, i
have been geaten up many times, hospitalized, and had my life threatened
numerous times..
i may be generalizing when i say that my town has a strong lack of
intelligence, but that is generally all i have seen...
the wise and strong friends i have made here, have gottenout...all but
me...i have to suffer one more year here, i even dropped out of
highschool for three weeks, something i had always said i would never
do.
i have "lived" more than many people my age...
but here lies the happy ending...since coming back to school, i have
someone recieved reputation as the
"off-road-hipster-buddhist-philosopher-poet-don't-take-me-home-to-mommy-guy"
and have nearly built a following of a sort, i practically give
lectures at lunch to groups of people who stop to listen, wondering my
feelings on certain subjects...it can get nerve racking, but i'm a
little giddy at all the attention i suppose...
anyway...
i have lived a "hard-knock-life"...i am well aware that a lot of people
have had it worse, but one of the reasons i joined this list is to learn
more about this interesting and wonderful culture, i suppose i could not
call myself a "beat"....but who could at first?...
i hope i answered the questions that were posed to me...
-julian
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:34:41 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck <julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: your mail
Content-Type: text/plain
nancy, if that's the way you feel, ok, i can understand that...
but...in this life, you only live for a limited amount of years, and
this may be something you want to try when you are young...if you dream
of it...
with women, it isn't all that safe by yourself, if i were a woman i
probably wouldn't do it alone...
but as i said, i want to go with the "buddy" system...
anyway, its up to you....
but nothing is going to happen to anyone i travel with i simply
wouldn't let it happen, i carry pepperspray at all times with me now,
and i would suggest no less for you...
-julian
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:37:21 PST
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From: Julian Ruck <julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: alexander supertramp
Content-Type: text/plain
>From owner-beat-l@cunyvm.cuny.edu Tue Jan 6 08:23:22 1998
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>From: Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>
>Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
>Subject: alexander supertramp
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>In a message dated 98-01-06 11:01:38 EST, you write:
>
><< who knows what awaits for you "on the road" >>
>
>if your name happens to be alexander supertramp, which i seriously
doubt yours
>is, what awaits is death.
>
>have you ever heard that story of the emory college graduate?
>
>
>brian
>
no brian, i have never heard of alexander suprtramp...
this isn't a lecture on "hitchhiking in today's society" is it?...
if not...
who is he?...
______________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:53:54 PST
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From: Julian Ruck <julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: hitch-hiking
Content-Type: text/plain
>From owner-beat-l@cunyvm.cuny.edu Tue Jan 6 10:05:11 1998
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>Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:53:53 -0500
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>From: Susan L Dean <deansusa@PILOT.MSU.EDU>
>Subject: hitch-hiking
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>I realize that this isn't _exactly_ the same as hitch-hiking, but given
the
>state of the country today, it may be an acceptable alternative...
>
>During the summer of 96', a friend of mine bought an unlimited pass
from
>Greyhound (I don't remember how much it cost) and spent the summer
seeing the
>country. He still had a great adventure and met lots of interesting
people, but
>he just didn't actually hitch rides from people. The way I understand
the pass
>is that you can go anywhere you want, anytime, until the pass expires.
>
>I would love to do it someday, but I agree with whoever said that its
probably
>more dangerous for a young woman out there.
>
>This is my first post to the list...next time I'll try for something a
little
>more on topic!
>
>Susan
>
>P.S. Julian-As far as cities in Michigan go, Port Huron isn't so bad!
I've
>lived in Michigan pretty much my whole life, and have seen far worse.
If you
>go to college, you'll find more of the kind of people that you seek.
Perhaps
>even some of the people that you know right now will become enlightened
as they
>mature also.
>
actually, i said port huron as a land mark, i live in jeddo, which has a
population of about 250, and the biggest news in years was when one guy
was a distant relative timothy mcviegh
that bus thing sounds like fun, but you don't get to know PEOPLE tht
way...i spent some quality time with some really wonderful people...
playing my guitar with them, or for them....
i'll look into the bus thing though...it seems interesting...
______________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:56:16 PST
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From: Julian Ruck <julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: alexander supertramp
Content-Type: text/plain
>From owner-beat-l@cunyvm.cuny.edu Tue Jan 6 10:03:11 1998
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>Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:48:52 PST
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>From: Greg Beaver-Seitz <hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Subject: alexander supertramp
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>Jon Krackaurer (correct spelling?) wrote a book called "Into the Wild"
>about Alexander Supertramp. It is an excellent book, well researched
>with extensive interviews of the many people supertramp touched during
>the two years between "dissappearing" and "reappearing" dead in the
>Alaskan wilderness.
>Krackaurer is an expert mountain climber and outdoorsman, a writer for
>Outside magazine. You might know of his most recent expeditition, he
was
>one of the few who survived the summit trip of Mt. Everest in which a
>blizzard killed several people. He wrote a book about it of course,
>which I have not read.
>
>Anyway, "Into the Wild" is a great book and I don't think dying in the
>Alaskan wilderness is a stupid way to die. I think a stupid way to die
>is from a heart-attack at age forty because of twenty years of stress
>brought on by suburbia and corporate work.
>He may have screwed up living in the wilderness, but you CAN NOT screw
>up simply by dying in the wilderness.
>
>-Greg
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
amen.
-julian
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:03:11 PST
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>From owner-beat-l@cunyvm.cuny.edu Tue Jan 6 15:03:47 1998
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>From: mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>In-Reply-To: <199801061557.HAA03897@f82.hotmail.com>
>
>At 07:57 AM 1/6/98 PST, you wrote:
>> hello again everyone, i was just wondering, are there any avid
>>hitch-hikers out there anymore?....
>> sometimes i feel like i'm the only one.
>> please reply if you are or are willing to try it using the "buddy"
>>system. i am planning a fulll three month hitch all over america this
>>summer, and am looking for someone to do it with, because it can get
>>real lonely not having anyone to talk to. who knows what awaits for
you
>>"on the road"
>>-julian
>>
>>______________________________________________________
>>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>>
>>
>Julian, aren't you the 18 year old kid who has experience
>beyond your years. You're about to start a flame war with
>your provocative remarks. I'm looking forward to it, it could
>be a doozy.
>
>Mike Rice
>
thank you mike for pointing that out to me, i hadn't realized that it
could be taken that way....
anouncement:
I AM NOT SOME SEX FIEND OR SOMETHING...I AM JUST LOOKING TO MEET PEOPLE,
HONESTLY, I AM JUST A "STARRY-EYED" KID OUT TO SEE THE WORLD....
*g*
i hope that cleared everything up...
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:52:43 -0600
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: hitch-hiking....
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Greg Beaver-Seitz wrote:
>
> I would love to hitchhike and I planned to start doing so last summer...
> but ended up, well as things always end up, never started and never
> finished.
> I always wondered if there's still a lot of people out there picking up
> hitchers, it doesn't seem like there's a lot of people in our nation who
> would be willing to risk life and limb to get someone a ride.
> Anyhow, feel free to stop by Stillwater Minnesota (near st
> paul/minneapolis) if your hitching next summer.
>
> -greg
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
i often have provided transport in exchange for conversation to folks
along the sides of the various routes zig-zagging here and there around
this lovely nation. i must admit that since the last thread in this
vein i have, for some odd reason, had that moment of second-thought
concerning safety that on an accelerating ramp on or off an Ike-route is
long enough to pass by the lonesome traveler and i am then left the
lonesome driver with no one but my active imagination with which to
convese.
david rhaesa
at the Beat Hotel in Lawrence
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:58:32 -0600
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: hakim bey
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Kindlesan wrote:
>
> has anyone ever read any poetry by a person named hakim bey?
>
> brian
no i haven't.
<yawn> sorry i just woke up from a siesta
david rhaesa
at the Beat-Hotel
p.s. sorry for the chatter-banter ... my Ludwig W. books are on the
shelf in Salina and so I'm not up to following that thread yet.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:21:53 EST
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From: SPElias <SPElias@AOL.COM>
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Subject: Re: hakim bey
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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yea, of coarse we have, can't remember there naymes, butt they we'reel
witty.....
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:37:46 -0600
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From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: This Land is your land
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some interest on the list connects the beat thang with the legacy of
woody guthrie and i've received backchannels concerning such threads
before. i thought i'd report that while perusing the KMART children's
video for presents for nieces and nephews i saw a copy of an animation
titled This Land is Your Land introducing youngsters to the music of
Woody G. I was happy to see that they included "So Long It's Been Good
to Know Ya" in the collection. Didn't get it. Maybe next trip to a
KMART (which might be awhile).
Right now sitting in Patricia's basement. Little Richard is FLAMING as
only LR can do through a version of Rock Island Line and having walked
that line before i can say this is the best version known to human
beings. Patricia is cataloguing material on Lena's computer and I'm
typing this note and Arlo is singing East Texas Red the meanest bull in
town.
Who can say more about Woody and Leadbelly that ain't already been
written or said by them or someone else here or in Tonganoxie. The
Vision Shared tribute we're listening to was something or other to make
money to buy the Moe Asch archives for the Smithsonian or someplace. A
good cause.
I remember my visit to New York City when i went looking around the
skyscraped sky looking for Folkways Headquarters - i was obsessed to
death with this old cat named Phil Ochs who hung himself on a bad day
for me at least and i found the address and there weren't nothin' there
but a box with numbers and buttons by the door. I found one said
Folkways and pushed the button...A woman's voice answers and says what
do i want and i says i've come all the way from Kansas in search of Phil
Ochs and she says they're normally mail order only but for a real Kansan
she can make an exception and buzzes me in and up the Elevator. So I
buy everything with any Ochs on it including the Interviews and the
collections with Blind Boy Grunt and am about to head out the door --
and there on the desk in front of this Caribbean Queen posing as a
secretary is an issue of Sis Cunningham's little newsletter Broadside
and on the cover is Phil Ochs. And i say well would you look at that -
there's Phil on the desk. And she says I can have it. I said really
and she said yes. I pick it up and on the other side is the mailing
sticker for Moe.
Moe passed away as people do we're all just passing through this mist.
Now EmmyLou is singing the Hobo's Lullaby. And i'll let the words close
go to sleep
you weary hobo
let the towns drift slowly by
can't you hear the steel rails humming
that's
a hobo's lullaby.....
bye bye
david rhaesa
at the Beat-Hotel
i'll resubscribe in Salina soon
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:40:48 EST
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From: Sad enigma <Sadenigma@AOL.COM>
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i'm from michigan i live by grand rapids
chad
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:15:05 -0500
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From: Susan L Dean <deansusa@PILOT.MSU.EDU>
Subject: One last comment...
Content-Type: text/plain
I apologize for posting this to the list, but I don't have Julian's e-mail
address to do it privately...
1) My friend who bought the bus pass actually met lots of people. He would
spend time in various towns and cities that appealed to him. (and may even
have hitched short distances occasionally, I don't remember) And, he actually
met people on the bus. I guess who you meet all depends on what you make of
it.
2) Send me your e-mail address if you want, I have a lot of things I'd like to
talk with you about.
That's it...I'll try to keep personal stuff off the list now!
Susan
deansusa@pilot.msu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:23:16 -0600
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: One last comment...
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Susan L Dean wrote:
>
> I apologize for posting this to the list, but I don't have Julian's e-mail
> address to do it privately...
>
> 1) My friend who bought the bus pass actually met lots of people. He would
> spend time in various towns and cities that appealed to him. (and may even
> have hitched short distances occasionally, I don't remember) And, he actually
> met people on the bus. I guess who you meet all depends on what you make of
> it.
>
> 2) Send me your e-mail address if you want, I have a lot of things I'd like
to
> talk with you about.
>
> That's it...I'll try to keep personal stuff off the list now!
>
> Susan
> deansusa@pilot.msu.edu
i had a friend who did the bus pass deal sometime before or after
walking the Appalachian Trail (where he's known as EZ rider) his name is
Robert Thomas and he went to Emory University in Atlanta and as i recall
he probably never graduated. but last i saw him in Winston-Salem North
Carolina he was still enjoying life ... i hear that the train passes
aren't a bad summer buy either.
david rhaesa
at the Beat Hotel
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:28:45 PST
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>Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:40:48 EST
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>From: Sad enigma <Sadenigma@AOL.COM>
>Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>i'm from michigan i live by grand rapids
>
>
> chad
>
well, tell me about yourself...
-julian
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:29:23 EST
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From: Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>
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Subject: Re: alexander supertramp
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In a message dated 98-01-06 21:07:51 EST, you write:
<< no brian, i have never heard of alexander suprtramp...
this isn't a lecture on "hitchhiking in today's society" is it?...
~~~nope........subtle sarcasm.....meaning don't let idealism lead you to
disaster, but judging by your last emails, i would presume you might have had
a good share, perhaps of that, by now
if not...
who is he?...
~~~i presume you have been reading all the posts on him by now.........
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:34:47 EST
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Subject: Re: German
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oh most gracious benevolent florian, thank you.
thank you. thank you.
now to see if this helps me with the book.
brian
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:35:10 EST
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From: CodyPomera <CodyPomera@AOL.COM>
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Subject: Re: Pull My Daisy - video and CD
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For a catalog, thanks!:
George Russell
PO Box 10667
Bainbridge Island, WA 98110
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:50:09 -0500
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From: "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: hakim bey (Ludwig. W)
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At 08:58 PM 1/6/98 -0600, David Rhaesa wrote:
>p.s. sorry for the chatter-banter ... my Ludwig W.
>books are on the shelf in Salina and so I'm not up
>to following that thread yet.
Looking forward to the follow up David!! In the midst
of Augustine, Aquinas, and Luther for a Christian
Ethics course at the moment and I could use the outside
entertainment. . . Time permitting of course!! {;^>
Mike
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:54:41 -0500
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From: "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: This Land is your land
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At 09:37 PM 1/6/98 -0600, David Rhaesa wrote:
>So I buy everything with any Ochs on it including
>the Interviews and the collections with Blind Boy Grunt
>and am about to head out the door --
Speaking of Blind Boy Grunt, he was just nominated
for a couple Grammy's (Album of the Year, Folk Album of
the Year, and Best Rock Vocal - Male). At least
I believe this is what I heard. . .
Mike
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:12:23 -0600
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From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: long list, warning
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I am trying to sort out my basement stuff. and need motivation. so i am
posting my very very rough draft list of some of the stuff. sorry if it
is too long.
want idea and feed back on how to make this list
patricia
Stuff in the beat hotel basement.
Partial list
Books
The Wild Boys: A Book of the Dead, by William S. Burroughs, signed (to
Pat - 82) 2nd printing, Hardback with Dust jacket, copyright 1969.
(cover slight tear)
Cities of the Red Night, by William S. Burroughs, signed (to Pat - 83)
First Edition excellent condition with dust jacket hard back
The Place of Dead Roads, by William S. Burroughs, signed (to Pat - 84)
First Edition, excellent condition with dust jacket. Hard back
Queer viking, 1985 ,signed to pat, dust jacket, hard back
The Job , Interviews with William S. Burroughs by Daniel Odier.Penquin,
paperback.,signed by wsb, 96
excellant condition
my education (a book of dreams) hardback, dust jacket, penquin, signed
by wsb to pat. 91
The Cat Inside, hardback, no dust , viking, signed to pat, first
edition,
The third Mind, william s. burroughs and brion gysin, signed to pat,
viking,hardback, dust cover, excellent condition.
First edition.
Letters to allen ginsberg, full court press, paper back, excellent
condition. Signed
Early Routines , small paperback, signed to pat. Excellent condition,
Cadmus editions 1982
Ruski, small paperback (signed, wsb 1984 (no 29 of 500 copies)
three, - retreat diaries, two signed by wsb, allen, james, and david
ohle,
one signed by wsb, james and david,. City moon 1976 (2,000 copies.
naked lunch, paperback, torn, dirty, unsigned
The Nova Broadcast #5: The Dead Star, by William S. Burroughs, signed
(to Pat -85) printed 1969 - Nova Broadcast Press: San Francisco.
Nova Convention progam, new york, nov, december. 1978
Everything is permitted, the making of naked lunch, paperback,
Gallery notices
Tony Shafrazi gallery December 19 through January 24 1988 - poster with
three ply wood pictures and one of William at what I think is his front
porch clean folded into 4.
Gasllery, book, galerie carzaniga & ueker basel
Postcard of Kellas gallery opening, sept nov 1989 (red painting)
Gallery Casasinnombre William S. Burroughs August 13 - September 24,
1988. Invitation to opening reception - postcard of "The Meal Sickness"
1987.
Christmas card -1988 picture of Untitled Window 6, signed (to Patricia)
Gallery reception card, picture, Klien gallery 1988
Gallery book, cover, the metal sickness, signed to pat, casasinnombre
gallery 1988
Christmas card , picture gluttony , 1992 signed by william and james
Christmas card, elf, signed by william 92,
pistol target, from 2/17/85, signed by wsb
bardo card, directions to williams bardo
Narcotics: Nature's Dangerous Gifts, Revised edition of Norman Taylor's
Flight from Reality. Gift to Pat from William.
Flowers in the Blood: The Story of Opium, by Dean Latimer and Jeff
Goldberg - Introduction by William S. Burroughs. Signed by William.
Copyright 1981 Franklin Watts. Cover slightly worn
River City Reunion
river city reunionplain poster signed by , william s burroughs, edie
keroauac, diana di prima, micheal mclure, jay carrol, Jeff miller, gene
bernofsky, roger martin, sharon dsteven l, tim miller, john giorno, ed
dorn, ed ruhe, barbara hawkins, ,john moritz, peggy billings, mark
kaplan, allen ginsberg, shelly miller, danny bently, barry
shalinsky, clark coan, rosemary leon kimball, b roberts, ken lasman,
barry billings. Wayne propst, steve bunch, david ohle, david hann,
william f. hatke, susan brasseau, steven lowe, george wedge, etc
River City Reunion, Union Burning T-Shirt, Designed by BDR, XL, White
and Clean
river city reunion sclay wilson tee shirt, allen and william trucking
river city reunion flyers
1, blue poster for Husker du, liberty hall, river city reunion, sept.13
,87
1 pink marianne Faithfull poster, with fernando Saunders. Michael
McClure, Danny Sugerman, Thursday Sept. 10th.
1 robert Creelyey, James McCrary, David Ohle, Wayne Propst, leaonard
Macruder, at the bottleneck, tues. sept 8.
1 flyer, yellow, timothy leary, Liberty hall sept, 12
1 flyer, ed sanders, jum carroll, ed dorn. Friday sept 11 liberty hall.
One large poster of "Howard Dewey, mule driver from lecompton, by and
signed, wayne s. propst. Jr.
(16 pages of proof of cat inside)
(one large weatherman poster, "new Morning - changing weather
2- color river city reunion posters, one signed by wsb
Two large color art posters of wsb "western lands"
Two large color art poster of anne walden poem, "Romance,
One large color art poster of philip whalen "window"
10 pamplets, by Frankie "Edie" Kerouac-Parker, "Essays & Poems
Celebrating The 1987 River city Reunion
three signed on front, six ` unsigned. One signed inside,
white plain, excellant condition
ljw clipping, burroughs mug hawking sneakers 7/9/94
ljw, clipping review of lee and the boys in the backroom by paul lim
large framed poster from birthday party in newyork, 70 years, signed by
artiist and william, a shadowy silluette, very good.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:44:36 -0800
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From: Ksenija Simic <xenias@EUNET.YU>
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Julian Ruck wrote:
>
> hello again everyone, i was just wondering, are there any avid
> hitch-hikers out there anymore?....
> sometimes i feel like i'm the only one.
> please reply if you are or are willing to try it using the "buddy"
> system. i am planning a fulll three month hitch all over america this
> summer, and am looking for someone to do it with, because it can get
> real lonely not having anyone to talk to. who knows what awaits for you
> "on the road"
> -julian
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
i live far away...but if you're willing to wait...
there is a chance that i will be coming to the US in fall...hitchhiking
has never been my strong side, though i tried. somehow it seems to me
that people have changed and that the times are not as good as they used
to be. what are your experiences?
ksenijs
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:25:54 EST
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From: Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>
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Subject: Re: julian
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In a message dated 98-01-06 20:36:01 EST, you write:
i have lived basically homeless for 4 years,
~~~personal choice or unavoidable situation?
done a bit of one-man hitchhiking, which gives you a lot of time to learn
about yourself and think...
~~~yeah, so does being an introvert in high school with a predeliction(sp?)
for not enjoying the company of too many people
i just read a few books a week
~~~who be your favorite authors?
also, i am bisexual, and open about it...
~~~you put up with a lot of shit concerning prejudice?
that is probably the most influential aspect of my growth, in that, i have
been beaten up many times, hospitalized, and had my life threatened numerous
times..
~~~personal choice or unavoidable
i even dropped out of highschool for three weeks, something i had always said
i would never do.
~~~why'd you do it?
i have "lived" more than many people my age...
~~~perhaps this may be true for america
but here lies the happy ending...since coming back to school, i have someone
recieved reputation as the "off-road-hipster-buddhist-philosopher-poet-don't-
take-me-home-to-mommy-guy" and have nearly built a following of a sort, i
practically give lectures at lunch to groups of people who stop to listen,
wondering my feelings on certain subjects...
~~~what makes this a happy ending for you?
i suppose i could not call myself a "beat"....but who could at first?...
~~~of course, this depends on who you are talking to......i've heard some say
that even within the beat movement, the word "beat" itself was detested by
some.....perhaps.......but i am limited in my knowledge, not having read much
and been there myself
brian
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:29:52 -0600
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From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: hiking
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Ksenija Simic wrote:
>
> there is a chance that i will be coming to the US in fall...hitchhiking
> has never been my strong side, though i tried. somehow it seems to me
> that people have changed and that the times are not as good as they used
> to be. what are your experiences?
>
> ksenijs
how nice, i would be interested in your itinery ideas. If you came
through kansas, i would love to meet you. I hitched hiked a lot for
years, in us, mexico, and canada, i wos warned most about mexico but
had the evilest time in kansas city. and outside omaha. I loved hitch
hiking and loved the geography the best. I also rode a lot of buses and
found it more people oriented somehow than hitching. but hitching let
me bond with geography more.
so where do you think you want to go?
patricia
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:47:48 -0500
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From: mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: julian
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Julian,
I apologize, you have lived beyond your years. I live in a
city of 8,000, in Wisconsin, not far from Sinclair Lewis'
Main Street, in Minnesota. The small town bitterness that
passes for public opinion here, is often impossible to bear.
I've risen above it by understanding, and learning to predict
in which direction local opinion will move. As the owner-
manager of the local cable Television system, I've had to dodge
a lot of bullets in my time. So I've grown philosophical about
it. One good thing (that is also a bad thing) about the bitterness,
is that it is PERSONAL. Part of the big city problem is that it
is IMPERSONAL. It hurts worse when it is personal, but its more
real, as are the people you deal with.
One last question, what's the name of your city and how big is
it?
Mike Rice
At 05:25 PM 1/6/98 PST, you wrote:
> to the person who spoke to me about exactly caused me to end up "beyond
>my years"
> i have lived basically homeless for 4 years, and am only 18, i have
>lived with two teachers, a lover, three wiccan friends, in a half-way
>house, and anywhere else you can imagine, of done abit of one-man
>hitchhiking, which gives you a lot of time to learn about yourself and
>think...
> until recently, i never had many friens, and i liked it that way, i
>just read a few books a week, staying up to see the sun-rise, and then
>go to school....
> also, i am bisexual, and open about it...
> that is probably the most influential aspect of my growth, in that, i
>have been geaten up many times, hospitalized, and had my life threatened
>numerous times..
> i may be generalizing when i say that my town has a strong lack of
>intelligence, but that is generally all i have seen...
> the wise and strong friends i have made here, have gottenout...all but
>me...i have to suffer one more year here, i even dropped out of
>highschool for three weeks, something i had always said i would never
>do.
> i have "lived" more than many people my age...
> but here lies the happy ending...since coming back to school, i have
>someone recieved reputation as the
>"off-road-hipster-buddhist-philosopher-poet-don't-take-me-home-to-mommy-guy"
> and have nearly built a following of a sort, i practically give
>lectures at lunch to groups of people who stop to listen, wondering my
>feelings on certain subjects...it can get nerve racking, but i'm a
>little giddy at all the attention i suppose...
> anyway...
>i have lived a "hard-knock-life"...i am well aware that a lot of people
>have had it worse, but one of the reasons i joined this list is to learn
>more about this interesting and wonderful culture, i suppose i could not
>call myself a "beat"....but who could at first?...
> i hope i answered the questions that were posed to me...
> -julian
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:58:38 -0500
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From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Christopher Johnson McCandless, aka alexander supertramp
In-Reply-To: <19980106233250.17913.qmail@hotmail.com>
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Christopher Johnson McCandless (aka Alexander Supertramp). From
Washington, DC. Son of a NASA scientist, graduated from Emory University
May of 1990 where he had distinguished himself as a history and
anthropology major carrying a 3.72 GPA. He declined membership on Phi Beta
Kappa. His college education had been paid for with a $40,000 bequest that
had been left him by a friend of the family. He had $24,000 left when he
finished college. He donated it to OXFAM. The day after graduation,
Mother's Day. He told his family he was going to disappear for a while and
they never saw him again.
His jouney into the "wilderness" began in Atlanta and ended 25 East of
Healy, Alaska in an abandoned bus on what is called the Stampede Trail.
"Into the Wild" weaves a haunting story of his last two years. The mistakes
McCandless made caused his death. They were mistakes that are painful to
read about. Excellent book.
INTO THE WILD by Jon Krakaur, Villard, NY 1996 ISBN 0-679-42850-X. Book
beautifuly designed by Deborah Kerner.
j grant
>-Greg
>
>ps. In response to the question about who Alexander Supertramp was I
>dn't feel I really can say.
>A few brief facts: he (I think)graduated from college a wealthy young
>man. He had $25000 in his checking account which he donated to charity.
>His parents called his phone number at school after not hearing anything
>out of him for a few weeks and discovered he hadn't been there for quite
>a while.
>They heard nothing of him for two years until his body was found by an
>abandoned trailer in the middle of the Alaskan bush.
>The author essentially tracked down where Supertramp (the name he took
>after leaving school) had been those two years and discovered he had
>affected a lot of people in a lot of ways.
>That's all I really want to get into, a remarkable true story.
>
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 02:39:39 -0500
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From: mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: julian
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i've heard some say
>that even within the beat movement, the word "beat" itself was detested by
>some.....perhaps.......but i am limited in my knowledge, not having read much
>and been there myself
>
>brian
In the history channel's interview (David Halberstam's The Fifties) and in
a long extract on this list, I read
an explanation of why the truly Beat, detested the Press' interpretation of
the term "Beat." Ginsberg said the word Beat meant you were part of the
real beat, i.e., rhythm, of authentic America. The Press suggested Beat
meant beat up,
disgruntled, raffish, offbeat, bohemian, even sinister. Since those guys
hanging around Columbia University in the 40s were totally in charge of what
Beat really means, they had to take umbrage at the Press interpretation. Then
Chronicle columnist Herb Caen comes along in 1957 when both Howl and On The
Road are exploding, and lifts the "nik" off the then brand-new Russian
Sputnik, appends the suffix to Beat, and presto, we have a new creation:
"The Beatnik." Some of the
bad films, pulp paperbacks, and Television impressions of the Beatniks, seem
laughable today, but those impressions created the backlash that knocked the
Beat movement on its can, by 1960. By the early 60s, the only mainstream
memory
of the Beat movement, was represented by Maynard Krebs, the goateed fool who
played foil to Dobie Gillis on The Loves of Dobie Gillis TV show.
The Press and establishment wanted desperately to snuff the voice
of the Beats. They succeeded, at first, but that authentic beat and rhythm
surfaced again in the mid-60s, and sparked a cultural revolution that is
still with us. That is why Allan Ginberg's obituary started on page
1 of the New York Times, and why George Will's, will not start there.
Mike Rice
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 02:48:38 EST
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From: Sad enigma <Sadenigma@AOL.COM>
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Subject: Re: julian
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you asked who i was, i'm from michigan also, and after reading yr post about
you, it sounds like we'd have alot in common. so i tried to write you a
private email but my mail was sent back saying i couldn't write to you, umm
how can i?, i think the story of me isn't as interesting as kerouac to some
people on this list, god knows why :) so i decided not to post it. sorry
have a nice night and a happy halloween
chad
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:48:17 -0800
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From: Ksenija Simic <xenias@EUNET.YU>
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> >
> >Mike Rice
> >
> thank you mike for pointing that out to me, i hadn't realized that it
> could be taken that way....
> anouncement:
> I AM NOT SOME SEX FIEND OR SOMETHING...I AM JUST LOOKING TO MEET PEOPLE,
> HONESTLY, I AM JUST A "STARRY-EYED" KID OUT TO SEE THE WORLD....
>
> *g*
>
> i hope that cleared everything up...
>
isn't is sad how people these days always see the negative first in
things others say or do; how we don't trust each other anymore?
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:44:07 -0800
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> i hope i answered the questions that were posed to me...
> -julian
>
> ______________________________________________________
i admire you. that's all i want to say. and why not call yourself beat?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 02:00:35 MST
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From: James Lavin <jimlavin@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Alexander Supertramp
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I have belonged to the list for a while, but never have added anything,
as I lack the Beat knowledge base. I wanted to point out something
that people may have missed in their observations of Chris McCandless.
He died of starvation, due mainly to eating the seed pods of a plant
that was listed as edible in his guide book. This inhibited the
production of an enzyme necessary for the break down and utilization of
food. It wasn't so much that Chris didn't know the woods, he was in
such a depleted state that he simply died with several days. Other such
claims have ben made in attempts to prove his lack of knowledge. He
describes killing a moose in his journal. The hunters who accompanied
Jon Krakauer to the site pointed out the fact that he must have been a
fool to mistake a caribou for a moose. In fact the veteran Alaskan
hunters had mistaken the remains for a caribou, closer examination
proved the bones to be from a moose. It is my opinion that Chris
McCandless set out with the purest of intentions, making strong effort
to live by his beliefs. He was an accomplished outdoors person who
happened to overestimate his own abilities. That wasn't what was
ultimately responsible for his death. Instead a string of bad luck
cause his demise.
Peace, Jimi
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:00:46 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ksenija Simic <xenias@EUNET.YU>
Subject: Re: hiking
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
> how nice, i would be interested in your itinery ideas. If you came
> through kansas, i would love to meet you. I hitched hiked a lot for
> years, in us, mexico, and canada, i wos warned most about mexico but
> had the evilest time in kansas city. and outside omaha. I loved hitch
> hiking and loved the geography the best. I also rode a lot of buses and
> found it more people oriented somehow than hitching. but hitching let
> me bond with geography more.
> so where do you think you want to go?
> patricia
i have learnt that there is beauty everywhere you go; as long as you
travel; as long as you are not in one place.
of course, as every typical tourist, i want to see the grand canyon, as
i have managed to miss it in all my visits to the US. i want to go
through arizona, new mexico, the desert...everywhere...
and i would love to visit you along the way. after all, much of the
traveling is about people you meet.
what was it about kansas city?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 04:46:24 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: on the road again
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waking up with sinus headache
just a bit
kinda fuzzy feeling in my brain
gotta pack my things
in a flash and hit the highway
heading west past Topeka and
Fort Riley
to the jewell of the Plains
Salina
...
listening to Ken Kesey singing
Belle Starr and Jesse James
on the ride.
life i love is making it with my muse
i cain't wait ta get out there
on the horse again....
david rhaesa
leaving the Beat-Hotel
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 05:48:55 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: on the road again
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Patricia Elliott wrote:
>
> waking up with sinus headache
> just a bit
> kinda fuzzy feeling in my brain
> gotta pack my things
> in a flash and hit the highway
> heading west past Topeka and
> Fort Riley
> to the jewell of the Plains
> Salina
> ...
> listening to Ken Kesey singing
> Belle Starr and Jesse James
> on the ride.
> life i love is making it with my muse
> i cain't wait ta get out there
> on the horse again....
>
> david rhaesa
> leaving the Beat-Hotel
hit the road jack
and don't come back
no more no more no more no more
dbr
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 07:27:33 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: CIRCULATION <breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: When trees are outlawed...
Was Sony Bono beat?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:40:36 +0100
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Johan Gotthardt Olsen <johan@DARWIN.KI.KU.DK>
Subject: photo wanted
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I know of a photograph of Jack Kerouac and Neal Cassady standing
together, Cassady to the left, head kinked in a funny way, Kerouac to
the right, serene (ironic, impatient?). I saw it used as a 'On The
Road' cover, can't remember the publishing co. but... I'd like to have
the picture so if somebody out there can help, I'd very much
appreciate it. I think the picture was taken by Cassady's wife?
It's cold, grey, windy, wet, hopeless here in Denmark. Somebody do
something, I am losing it!
Johan
johan@xray.ki.ku.dk
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:15:57 -0500
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <19980107013441.17458.qmail@hotmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Hopefully, I'll be taking off for Prague in a couple of years and then,
I'll be able to hit the road in Europe for a little while, anyway.
On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Julian Ruck wrote:
> nancy, if that's the way you feel, ok, i can understand that...
> but...in this life, you only live for a limited amount of years, and
> this may be something you want to try when you are young...if you dream
> of it...
> with women, it isn't all that safe by yourself, if i were a woman i
> probably wouldn't do it alone...
> but as i said, i want to go with the "buddy" system...
> anyway, its up to you....
> but nothing is going to happen to anyone i travel with i simply
> wouldn't let it happen, i carry pepperspray at all times with me now,
> and i would suggest no less for you...
> -julian
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:19:57 -0500
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: julian
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.16.19980107004249.19df472e@mail.wi.centuryinter.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I beg to differ on one point, the big city is not always impersonal. NYC
is more personal to me than the suburb where I grew up, in upstate NY.
On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, mike rice wrote:
> Julian,
>
> I apologize, you have lived beyond your years. I live in a
> city of 8,000, in Wisconsin, not far from Sinclair Lewis'
> Main Street, in Minnesota. The small town bitterness that
> passes for public opinion here, is often impossible to bear.
> I've risen above it by understanding, and learning to predict
> in which direction local opinion will move. As the owner-
> manager of the local cable Television system, I've had to dodge
> a lot of bullets in my time. So I've grown philosophical about
> it. One good thing (that is also a bad thing) about the bitterness,
> is that it is PERSONAL. Part of the big city problem is that it
> is IMPERSONAL. It hurts worse when it is personal, but its more
> real, as are the people you deal with.
>
> One last question, what's the name of your city and how big is
> it?
>
> Mike Rice
>
>
> At 05:25 PM 1/6/98 PST, you wrote:
> > to the person who spoke to me about exactly caused me to end up "beyond
> >my years"
> > i have lived basically homeless for 4 years, and am only 18, i have
> >lived with two teachers, a lover, three wiccan friends, in a half-way
> >house, and anywhere else you can imagine, of done abit of one-man
> >hitchhiking, which gives you a lot of time to learn about yourself and
> >think...
> > until recently, i never had many friens, and i liked it that way, i
> >just read a few books a week, staying up to see the sun-rise, and then
> >go to school....
> > also, i am bisexual, and open about it...
> > that is probably the most influential aspect of my growth, in that, i
> >have been geaten up many times, hospitalized, and had my life threatened
> >numerous times..
> > i may be generalizing when i say that my town has a strong lack of
> >intelligence, but that is generally all i have seen...
> > the wise and strong friends i have made here, have gottenout...all but
> >me...i have to suffer one more year here, i even dropped out of
> >highschool for three weeks, something i had always said i would never
> >do.
> > i have "lived" more than many people my age...
> > but here lies the happy ending...since coming back to school, i have
> >someone recieved reputation as the
> >"off-road-hipster-buddhist-philosopher-poet-don't-take-me-home-to-mommy-guy"
> > and have nearly built a following of a sort, i practically give
> >lectures at lunch to groups of people who stop to listen, wondering my
> >feelings on certain subjects...it can get nerve racking, but i'm a
> >little giddy at all the attention i suppose...
> > anyway...
> >i have lived a "hard-knock-life"...i am well aware that a lot of people
> >have had it worse, but one of the reasons i joined this list is to learn
> >more about this interesting and wonderful culture, i suppose i could not
> >call myself a "beat"....but who could at first?...
> > i hope i answered the questions that were posed to me...
> > -julian
> >
> >______________________________________________________
> >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> >
>
The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 05:38:29 PST
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From: Julian Ruck <julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: julian
Content-Type: text/plain
>From owner-beat-l@cunyvm.cuny.edu Tue Jan 6 22:27:18 1998
>Received: from listserv (128.228.100.10) by listserv.cuny.edu (LSMTP
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>Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:25:54 EST
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>From: Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>
>Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
>Subject: Re: julian
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>In a message dated 98-01-06 20:36:01 EST, you write:
>
>i have lived basically homeless for 4 years,
>~~~personal choice or unavoidable situation?
>(unavoidable, when you cease to entertain people, they cease to want
you around)
>done a bit of one-man hitchhiking, which gives you a lot of time to
learn
>about yourself and think...
>~~~yeah, so does being an introvert in high school with a
predeliction(sp?)
>for not enjoying the company of too many people
>(i was that for years too)
>i just read a few books a week
>~~~who be your favorite authors?
>(Vonnegut, Rand, Chaucer, Plato(all the Greeks really), Adams, Eddings,
and Salinger)
>also, i am bisexual, and open about it...
>~~~you put up with a lot of shit concerning prejudice?
>(yes, a lot)
>that is probably the most influential aspect of my growth, in that, i
have
>been beaten up many times, hospitalized, and had my life threatened
numerous
>times..
>~~~personal choice or unavoidable
>(unavoidable, this town has so very many prejudices)
>i even dropped out of highschool for three weeks, something i had
always said
>i would never do.
>~~~why'd you do it?
>(i had no place to live at all, and needed a 40 hour a week job, and
then i couldn't juggle school and living on my own....so i had to let
school go, its not something i'm proud of)
> i have "lived" more than many people my age...
>~~~perhaps this may be true for america
>
>but here lies the happy ending...since coming back to school, i have
someone
>recieved reputation as the
"off-road-hipster-buddhist-philosopher-poet-don't-
>take-me-home-to-mommy-guy" and have nearly built a following of a sort,
i
>practically give lectures at lunch to groups of people who stop to
listen,
>wondering my feelings on certain subjects...
>~~~what makes this a happy ending for you?
>(respect. that simple, i have only been assualted once since coming
back, and now he has absolutely no friends because of it, for being
bullied for years, it feels good to be "safe")
>i suppose i could not call myself a "beat"....but who could at
first?...
>~~~of course, this depends on who you are talking to......i've heard
some say
>that even within the beat movement, the word "beat" itself was detested
by
>some.....perhaps.......but i am limited in my knowledge, not having
read much
>and been there myself
>
>brian
>
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 05:41:46 PST
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From: Julian Ruck <julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: julian
Content-Type: text/plain
actually, a place called Jeddo, a country off-shoot of port huron...
michigan, with a population in jeddo of about 250
>From owner-beat-l@cunyvm.cuny.edu Tue Jan 6 22:47:40 1998
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>Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:47:48 -0500
>Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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>From: mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
>Subject: Re: julian
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>In-Reply-To: <19980107012541.16234.qmail@hotmail.com>
>
>Julian,
>
>I apologize, you have lived beyond your years. I live in a
>city of 8,000, in Wisconsin, not far from Sinclair Lewis'
>Main Street, in Minnesota. The small town bitterness that
>passes for public opinion here, is often impossible to bear.
>I've risen above it by understanding, and learning to predict
>in which direction local opinion will move. As the owner-
>manager of the local cable Television system, I've had to dodge
>a lot of bullets in my time. So I've grown philosophical about
>it. One good thing (that is also a bad thing) about the bitterness,
>is that it is PERSONAL. Part of the big city problem is that it
>is IMPERSONAL. It hurts worse when it is personal, but its more
>real, as are the people you deal with.
>
>One last question, what's the name of your city and how big is
>it?
>
>Mike Rice
>
______________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 05:46:11 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck <julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: julian
Content-Type: text/plain
because i'm new to it...
i don't really understand it as well, as someone who has been with it
awhile would....
and i wouldn't want to use it refering to myself if some people would
take offence at an "upstart hippy"
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 05:48:50 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck <julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: When trees are outlawed...
Content-Type: text/plain
at one time, i think he was...but he was a lot of things...a hippy, and
a republican...
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:57:57 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: letter par Truly Beat Canucks
In-Reply-To: <Pine.PMDF.3.95.980104221947.49525B-100000@uoft02.utoledo.e du>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Le siecle des intellectuels says:
> Cronopio, cronopio?
>
the DiGiTaL CiTiZen carnet on wired i
couldnt resist to Jaques Derrida... o
r emigrates or johnny halliday or Son
ny Bono or Salvatore (or Sal) the mis
tic name Salvatore Bono (italian emig
rant, at Ellis Islands, or Elvis Isla
nd?) NY or THE BEAT GOES ON 1967, dis
c or Palm Springs there's jack keroua
c or philp marlowe i couldnt resist t
o Jacques Derrida...and the beats go
on...il cammino di ogni speranza is t
he beat goes on sonny... ma piano (pe
r non svegliarti)... jacques derrida.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:38:10 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: When trees are outlawed...
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 7 Jan 1998 07:27:33 EST from <breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Well, he sang "The Beat goes on...on...on...on...on."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:47:02 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: This Land is your land
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:54:41 -0500 from <cake@IONLINE.NET>
On Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:54:41 -0500 M. Cakebread said:
>At 09:37 PM 1/6/98 -0600, David Rhaesa wrote:
>
>>So I buy everything with any Ochs on it including
>>the Interviews and the collections with Blind Boy Grunt
>>and am about to head out the door --
>
>Speaking of Blind Boy Grunt, he was just nominated
>for a couple Grammy's (Album of the Year, Folk Album of
>the Year, and Best Rock Vocal - Male). At least
>I believe this is what I heard. . .
>
>Mike
Yes, and I'll be really suprised if Dylan doesn't win. It's a GREAT
album. The Phil Ochs box set is good too, though there's only about five unrec
orded songs in it. At $43, it's an expensive purchase for someone who has all
the albums. For someone new to Ochs, however, it's a great introduction. The
re's also a good biographical pamphlet.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:54:10 +0000
Reply-To: jhasbro@tezcat.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Hasbrouck <jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Burroughs, Wittgenstein
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Has anyone out there read a work by Wittgenstein cover to cover?
-John H.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:26:01 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Dylan Conference at Stanford
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Thought someone in the Bay area might be
interested in checking this out:
> stanford, california--
> 'scholars are planning a one-day conference at standford univeristy
>to talk about bob dylan's legacy in american culture. authors,
>professors and dylan experts will attent the event, which is billed as
>the first of its kind in the u.s. the legendary folk songwriter is
>scheduled to perform in new york with van morrison on that day and is
>not expected to attend. among the topics will be an analysis of
>political views in dylan's songs, allen ginsberg's artistic
>involvement with dylan, the musical roots of dylan's songs and a
>comparison to beat novelist jack kerouac and french poet arthur
>rimbaud.'
> --canoe.ca/JanMusic/jan7_dylan.html
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:33:11 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: mail go bouncy list
Comments: cc: nhenness@uwaterloo.ca
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I probably will sell some, but the thang is , i am trying to figure out
what stuff i have. I have contacted a library to donate 5 years
worth of underground papers i collected in the 70's. My preservation
technique is to randomly pile material in stacks on my
basement floor. I am cleaning, and sorting, and don't know how to
catalogue. When Charles Plymell was here, he gave me a good talking to
about the way i kept stuff. So I am sorting, listing. I also thought I
might try to get the more interesting posters and cards scanned for use
on my crude home page. I just get a little lost with my collections. I
also contacted a book dealer and will be selling a couple of hundred of
my lesser cook books. But i keep wanting to quit sorting and to go to
the computer to play freecell. I thought if i posted the partial list
someone would scold or imspire me to keep going until i at least got the
stuff off the floor.
patricia
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:11:20 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: letter par Truly Beat Canucks
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980107145757.006a1104@pop.gpnet.it>
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At 02:57 PM 1/7/98 +0100, you wrote:
>Le siecle des intellectuels says:
>> Cronopio, cronopio?
>>
>the DiGiTaL CiTiZen carnet on wired i
>couldnt resist to Jaques Derrida... o
>r emigrates or johnny halliday or Son
>ny Bono or Salvatore (or Sal) the mis
>tic name Salvatore Bono (italian emig
>rant, at Ellis Islands, or Elvis Isla
>nd?) NY or THE BEAT GOES ON 1967, dis
>c or Palm Springs there's jack keroua
>c or philp marlowe i couldnt resist t
>o Jacques Derrida...and the beats go
>on...il cammino di ogni speranza is t
>he beat goes on sonny... ma piano (pe
>r non svegliarti)... jacques derrida.
>
>
this is great, now if we could all communicate
this well, Sonny might have been elected President
by now instead of just mayor and congressman.
Mike Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:32:30 -0500
Reply-To: "eastwind@erols.com"@erols.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "D. Patrick Hornberger" <"eastwind@erols.com"@EROLS.COM>
Organization: EASTWIND PUBLISHING
Subject: Re: mail go bouncy list
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Patricia Elliott wrote:
>
> I probably will sell some, but the thang is , i am trying to figure out
> what stuff i have. I have contacted a library to donate 5 years
> worth of underground papers i collected in the 70's. My preservation
> technique is to randomly pile material in stacks on my
> basement floor. I am cleaning, and sorting, and don't know how to
> catalogue. When Charles Plymell was here, he gave me a good talking to
> about the way i kept stuff. So I am sorting, listing. I also thought I
> might try to get the more interesting posters and cards scanned for use
> on my crude home page. I just get a little lost with my collections. I
> also contacted a book dealer and will be selling a couple of hundred of
> my lesser cook books. But i keep wanting to quit sorting and to go to
> the computer to play freecell. I thought if i posted the partial list
> someone would scold or imspire me to keep going until i at least got the
> stuff off the floor.
> patricia
Cool Collection--
I have to say you should continue to collect and not donate--yet... One
never can tell what the value of Beat stuff really is. Market could
totaly bomb--or get better, if the current interest continues. e.g. I 'm
a collector and have seen OTR, 1st editons go from $700.00 to
1,800--same condition at book shows in the Washington,DC area. I dont
think it will ever drop much for the big three, but none of the
so-called experts put much faith in the minor charcters. And the secure
market is mostly in books, not the ephemeral.
Myself--if you want to sell it -I might be interested in the target
signed by WSB--I'm still working on why he was so fascinated by
handguns, (but never used as a poster boy for the NRA). let me know if
you want to sell it and how much.
Patrick
eastwind@erols.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:28:34 +0000
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Be There or Be Square (Marie Countryman Reading)
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Those who may have missed previous posts should know that Marie
Countryman of Beat-L fame will be reading from her poetry at
Polk Street Beans & Cafe
1733 Polk Street, San Francisco
415-776-9292
Show starts at 7pm
Be There or Be Square
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:32:07 +0000
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Be There Part II
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I should have added that the reading is 7pm THURSDAY, JANUARY 8
See you there
James Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:57:22 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Alexander Supertramp
In-Reply-To: <19980107090036.2278.qmail@hotmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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James Lavin wrote about Chris McCandless:
> He was an accomplished outdoors person who
>happened to overestimate his own abilities. That wasn't what was
>ultimately responsible for his death. Instead a string of bad luck
>cause his demise.
> Peace, Jimi
Jimi,
When McCandless became so weak he couldn't forage for food he tried to
return but could not cross a bever pond andthen the river that was running
much higher than it was when he first arrived.
Had he not torn up and thrown his maps away he would have seen --marked on
the map--a means to cross. Just six miles away was a steel cable and bucket
that was tied up on his side of the river.
A simple rash act. Krakauer speculated that since there was no real
wilderness where he was, he created a "wilderness" by destroying the map
that showed civilization still crowding in on him.
No books listed the seed pods (of the potato plant he was eating) as toxic
so it was assumed that he had mistakenly eaten seed pods from the wild
sweet pea which closely resembles the wild potato. Krakauer, after much
thought, decided McCandless would not have made this kind of a mistake and
I agree. Krakauer's research showed that the wild potatoe produces an
alkoloid that concentrates in the seed pods in late summer to discourage
animals from eating the seeds. The alkolid, it was learned, is swainsonine
which is the compound known to veterinarians as the toxic agent in
locoweed. This poison affects a person neurologically and inhibits an
enzyme essential to glycoprotein metabolism. Krakauer points out that
animals that stop eating it can recover, IF they are in robust condition to
begin with. McCandless was not.
Old-timers were surprised to learn that he had, indeed, shot a moose, and
not a caribou. Unfortunately he had never read any materail on how to cure
and store the meat. He had the means and the time to slice the meat into
thin strips and cure it using the heat and smoke of a simple campfire.
Sad that this gifted, intelligent, articulate, hardworking, very likable
young man, as a result of a couple of rash acts, died while so close to
help. Indications that he was preparing to return to the life he had left
behind two years earlier makes the story even sadder.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:08:56 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: When trees are outlawed...
In-Reply-To: <009BFEC6.2EEE4AA0.13@kenyon.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>Was Sony Bono beat?
Of course we can't forget those best selling LPs:
Sonny and Cher Sing Woody's Dust Bowl Ditties,
and
Sonny and Cher Love Bobby Dylan
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:13:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: mail go bouncy list
In-Reply-To: <34B3A037.1D86@sunflower.com>
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I thought if i posted the partial list
>someone would scold or imspire me to keep going until i at least got the
>stuff off the floor.
>patricia
Quite a list.
Consider yourself scolded (and hopefuly inspired).
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:09:02 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: The Kerouac Quarterly Web Page updated!
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Yes I have updated it again for the New Year...also, look in the future for
all new pages and links! Thanks for 1997, the year of the founding of The
Kerouac Quarterly!
Guess what Kerouac did 50 years ago today!
Go to the page and find out.... at:
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/KerouacQuarterly.html
Bye for now and stay away from ski slopes with trees!
Paul...
>
>
"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:14:35 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aeronwytru <Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: photo wanted
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i think i have the copy of on the road with that picture. the publisher of
mine is city lights. however, i have also seen a copy out by penguin with the
same or similar picture.
aeronwy
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:27:36 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: For Boston-area Beats!
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If you're in the Boston Area tonight, broadcasting from Boston University,
(WBOR at 90.9 FM) there is an hour-long interview with David Amram and John
Suiter about Jack Kerouac. Check it out if you can! The Kerouac Quarterly
will highlight parts of the interview on the web page in the near future.
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/KerouacQuarterly.html
Take care, Paul of TKQ....
"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:28:53 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: photo wanted
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Sorry!Forgot to give the time..try around 8:00 PM or 9:00 PM...sorry again.
WBOR 90.9 FM in Boston-area...
"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:44:25 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Greg Beaver-Seitz <hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Alexander Supertramp
Content-Type: text/plain
I really feel that the discussion of alexander supertramp has taken a
turn for the worst.. All that we have talked about is how he screwed up
(or did not screw up) the end of his life.
We should be discussing the incredible amount of life he lived and
people he affected, not the fact that yes.. he is dead.
What about the 70 year old man in Nevada or something who was living a
happy life of retirement until he met supertramp. At the time,
supertramp was living outside of a commune type situation in the desert.
He left on his trek to Alaska, died.. The 70 year old man is now living
in the desert, near where Supertramp had his tent.
That is one of only a few ways in which he impacted a dozen people in
the course of two years.
Read the book, understand the incredible things he did and not the
tragic way he died...
-Greg
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:25:43 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Coming soon to TKQ...
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Coming soon, the first of many new additions to the quarterly and web
page...the real time Kerouac Quarterly chat group. Stay tuned for further
info. P.
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/KerouacQuarterly.html
"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:46:40 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: IDDHI <IDDHI@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Let's get this New Year rolling...
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Ever answered the Proust Questions? Well, here they is:
1. What is your most marked characteristic?
2. What do you consider your greatest achievement?
3. When and where were you happiest?
4. What is your greatest regret?
5. What is your idea of perfect happiness?
6. What is your most treasured possession?
7. Where would you like to live?
8. What is your greatest fear?
9. What is the trait you most deplore in yourself?
10. What is the trait you most deplore in others?
11. What do you consider the most overrated virtue?
12. What is your greatest extravagance?
13. What is your favourite journey?
14. What is it that you most dislike?
15. What is the quality you most like in a man?
16. What is the quality you most like in a woman?
17. What do you most value in your friends?
18. If you were to come back as a person or thing, what do you think it would
be?
19. If you could choose what to come back as, what would it be?
20. How would you like to die?
BTW, does anyone know if JK ever answered these 20 questions? It seems likely
that he would have. I would love to hear his answers. And in a few days, I'll
post Proust's answers here, if you wish. There are two versions I know of,
answered first when he was 13, and second when he was 20.
I hope this generates some interesting results and threads.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:07:11 +0000
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Let's get this New Year rolling...
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Homework Already?
Do we have any of Marcel's answers from a somewhat riper age than 13 or 20?
Not enough mail in your mailbox with the scintillating Alexander Supertramp
thread that has us all so rivited?
James Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 20:02:31 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Let's get this New Year rolling...
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 06:46 PM 1/7/98 EST, you wrote:
>Ever answered the Proust Questions? Well, here they is:
>
>1. What is your most marked characteristic?
Perseverance...
>2. What do you consider your greatest achievement?
To date...the Kerouac Quarterly
>3. When and where were you happiest?
the womb
>4. What is your greatest regret?
Not living after my death in which I will know my greatest regret
>5. What is your idea of perfect happiness?
You will never attain this, even the most peaked form of happiness is marred
by misery.
>6. What is your most treasured possession?
The Complete Beethoven edition
>7. Where would you like to live?
In New England where I'm standing , about 200 years ago.
>8. What is your greatest fear?
I'm afraid I don't know.
>9. What is the trait you most deplore in yourself?
That which makes me human, weakness.
>10. What is the trait you most deplore in others?
Their tendencies to be humans.
>11. What do you consider the most overrated virtue?
Fidelity, it mars the way to follow the advice of your spirit.
>12. What is your greatest extravagance?
U Know
>13. What is your favourite journey?
Its not life...
>14. What is it that you most dislike?
It's not life...
>15. What is the quality you most like in a man?
He's a dumb ape.
>16. What is the quality you most like in a woman?
She's a loving ape.
>17. What do you most value in your friends?
Friendship.
>18. If you were to come back as a person or thing, what do you think it would
>be?
Van Gogh's severed earlobe.
>19. If you could choose what to come back as, what would it be?
The right hand of Vermeer of Delft as he paints the Lacemaker....
>20. How would you like to die?
After life...
>
>BTW, does anyone know if JK ever answered these 20 questions? It seems likely
>that he would have. I would love to hear his answers. And in a few days, I'll
>post Proust's answers here, if you wish. There are two versions I know of,
>answered first when he was 13, and second when he was 20.
>
>I hope this generates some interesting results and threads.
>
"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:38:02 -0500
Reply-To: "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: alexander supertramp
>In a message dated 98-01-06 11:01:38 EST, you write:
>
><< who knows what awaits for you "on the road" >>
>
>if your name happens to be alexander supertramp, which i seriously doubt yours
>is, what awaits is death.
>
>have you ever heard that story of the emory college graduate?
>
>
>brian
No, but now i'm intrigued....
Diane.
--
"This is Beat. Live your lives out? Naw, _love_ your lives out!"
--Jack Kerouac
Diane Marie Homza
ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 20:28:01 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeff Taylor <taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Burroughs, Wittgenstein
In-Reply-To: <34B342B2.330D@tezcat.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, John Hasbrouck wrote:
> Has anyone out there read a work by Wittgenstein cover to cover?
I have, but I'm not sure it really matters all that much with
Wittgenstein. One must not have too much faith in cardboard.
(& BTW, there's still a lot of W's writings not yet published....yet
another "estate" controversy)
*******
Jeff Taylor
taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
*******
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 20:39:43 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeff Taylor <taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Wittgenstein?
In-Reply-To: <199801052159.QAA01136@ionline.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, M. Cakebread wrote:
> Can anyone briefly tell me if the references mentioned
> are influenced by Wittgenstein's _Tractatus_, or
> _Philosophical Investigations_? Just curious.
In all my reading of Burroughs, I've never run across anything that
made me think, "Gee, that sounds just like Wittgenstein." So apart
from the explicit reference in the intro to Naked Lunch, I don't think
Burroughs ever had much to say about W.
*******
Jeff Taylor
taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
*******
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:44:09 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Some American Haikus
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I put up some news sounds at Kerouac Speaks
http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~gallaher/k_speaks/kerouacspeaks.html
They are from the Blues and Haikus CD, from the first track called American
Haikus.
If you don't have the CD's you can listen to snippets from it at this site
and see (or hear rather) what you are missing.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:53:46 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: The Beat Goes On
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Boys keep chasing girls to get a kiss
And the beat goes on
Men keep marching off to war
And the beat goes on.
Was Sonny Bono beat?
The Charleston was once the rage uh huh?
And the Beat goes on.
No, but the Vanilla Fudge were.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:01:36 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Howl
MIME-Version: 1.0
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R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
> Howl is one of the greatest poems of the 20th Century. The other one
> that I like as much is The Lovesong of J. Alfred Prufrock. But, we
> don't want to go down that road again, do we.
It might be a good time to head along those hollers now that it is a new
year. Is it true that Alfred in the Batman comics was named after J.
Alfred?
>
> Howl was a poem that bubbles over with its positive energy. The poet
> has at last discovered himself and in an excited frenzy takes us through
> the entire range of his world, experience, hopes dreams and visions.
i don't think it is so frenzied at all. perhaps for the time.
It
> describes too well the Amerika I grew up in and continue to live in.
My Americka changes every day -- at least.
>
> Howl awakened in me the realization that poetry is alive and well and
> serves a purpose to me.
The Liveliness of Howl is its testament in my way of thinking. It is
the Celebration of Life through thick and thin, blood and guts and
brains in my teeth, dead burnt bodies (oops that was Alice's Restaraunt)
> Howl, a great great great poem. And a perfect name.
I think it could be named "HOOT!" <big grin>
>
> Peace,
>
> --
>
> Peace,
>
> Bentz
> bocelts@scsn.net
> http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
david rhaesa
walden farm, Kansas
p.s. can someone backchannel me re-subscribe functions pretty please.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:34:35 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: the last time....
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Diane De Rooy wrote:
>
> In a message dated 97-12-04 10:04:58 EST, you write:
>
> << >
> > i heard/read somewhere that FFCoppola has the rights to 'on the road' -
> > anyone know more?
> > --
> >>
>
> This will get you started:
> <A HREF=" http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ ">Literary Kicks</A>
> http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
> <A HREF="http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/Films/BeatFilmList.html">The Beats In
> Film</A>
> http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/Films/BeatFilmList.html
> <A HREF="http://www.c3f.com/holywood/ontheroa.html">Hollywood's Coming: On Th
> e Road</A>
> http://www.c3f.com/holywood/ontheroa.html
>
> This project has been in the shadows for decades, and there is a lot of
> information out there on the internet. We've also discussed it to death on
> the list here, passionately and then annoyingly... you can get the letters on
> this subject from the Beat-L archive. Maybe then we won't get sucked back
> into discussing it endlessly...
Endlessly is a long long time. I'm thinking maybe the old man in the
back of the truck should be Dennis Hopper. Whaddayall think? Jack
Nicholson for the Columbia football coach.
david rhaesa
solomon, Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 22:04:28 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Stone on Kerouac
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Leon Tabory wrote:
>
> I had a backchannell that kids me about having my tongue tied by a tongue
> lashing from Big Daddy Bill that makes very funny references to war happy
> clansmen in cliques.
>
> Truth is that I considered coming to the defense of my thoughts on the
> subject of authentication of self vs concern about our cultures and their
> dreams. I decided to leave it alone after the subject moved on to redemption
> of the soul, or has anyone suggested redemption of the american dream as
> well?
i've been suggesting this in one way or another all of my adult life
(though admittedly i'm still a whippersnapper)
>