beat list july 1995

---------- Forwarded message ----------

Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 18:55:15 +0800 (CST)

From: Frank Stevenson <t22001@cc.ntnu.edu.tw>

To: phil-lit <phil-lit@tamvm1.tamu.edu>

Cc: fict-of-phil <fiction-of-philosophy@jefferson.village.virginia.edu>

Subject: going down 2

journal: summer 1974

may 12:

climbed damavand with ted heal and his brother tom saturday:

great experience! getting cold and windy near the top, quite a

contrast with the (sublunary) temperature down here....the best

part was the tea houses going up and the the look on taxi driv-

ers' faces when they saw 3 ferengi walking out at the bottom....

on the spur of the moment we jumped in a cab and came down to

bist-o-char esfand for dinner at the indian restaurant....

trying to forget elaine: bike, desert, hashish all help a lot

(in reverse order perhaps). jim baines says i've got to "get a

lot stronger" so i've started riding solo into the desert and

practicing my sufi meditation at least once a week--usually

saturday afternoons, sometimes sundays.

baines also said last week that "persians have no souls."

(but he fucks irani chicks in the ass whenever he gets the

chance.) amazing! the scots even bigger bigots than the brits?

may 21:

ok! getting better at this desert meditation thing--sometimes

focus on breath like ted (zen technique supposedly) but it seems

to work better when i take the desert itself as mantra, just try

to fill my mind with the emptiness of the (concept of the) desert

itself. (in fact it's what the sufis did according to mashid, but

he could be bullshitting.) i can just cruise for about an hour

now, try to stretch it out a little longer each time by holding

before me (in my mind's eye, before my mind's nose?) the obvious

reward, which i keep right in my shirt pocket. (but then, you

ask: how can i "empty my mind"? or "desert" my mind? good ques-

tion, mate.) ("dessert" my mind?) (or, au contraire, perhaps

drooling pavlovian dogs are the best little meditators?)

may 28:

moved into ted heal's apt. yesterday. seems it will work out

ok. (a psychologist & a philosopher, after all.) teheran clear

and dry, not too hot at denver altitude, crisp air invigorating,

snow-capped damavand at 18,000 ft. shining as ever out window to

the northeast...(actually my old window view was slightly better

but ted has a larger, and better placed, balcony.)....feeling

good after first year of teaching....crazy ted likes to talk

about "learned helplessness-ness" with the students at school,

and most nights he stays in his room alone listening to old

beatles and stones records...."hey jude...."

june 3:

shit man, got too ripped after my "deserted mind" session

yesterday, a little too heavy on the "dessert": walked (stag-

gered?) a few steps too far away (gazing at HORIZON, part of my

technique) from bike and spent 2 hours walking in circles till i

found it, allah be praised....(little prairie mounds just high

enough).... that was cool though, i sort of enjoyed it--i somehow

knew i'd find my bike as the alternative was too unthinkable....

just high enough!

june 10:

hah! mashid calls jim baines a "true gold-digger"--irani term

for ass-fucker.

why have i never been interested in anal sex with women? (of

course, not with men, but why not even with women?) too "dirty,"

right? anyway, what's the pt. given the joyous allure of alterna-

tive orifices?....(FEMALE alternative orifices, maybe that's

also the pt.) BUT they say the ass "feels just the same" as the cunt

etc etc....i dunno, i think it's the shit association ("guilty by as-

sociation"), just too dirty....(well, sigmund?) (of course, in the

middle east the pt. is you never fuck a woman any other way, except

your wife or a whore, as jim is quick to pt. out in explanation.)

but anyway i seem not to care about sex these days--even

jim's lucid tales of conquest no longer leave those stinging

pangs of envy (jealousy?) or inadequacy in their wake, the tell-

tale sign if there is one--too burned out i guess, brain cells

fried, mind/spirit/SOUL (?) just too burnt, or too desserted....

....just high enough!

june 14

fucking bike got ripped off thursday night....(no insurance

of course, never any insurance in this life)....that'll learn me

to get stoned BEFORE early evening class so that i forget to

chain and lock it to iron gate outside, per usual....(what was i

discussing in that class? comparative world religions, hah!

specifically, on thursday, confucianism....a "religion"?)

anyway this means i can't follow big charlie pruitt on his

honda 350 to kabul when school ends in 2 weeks....wld have been

cool....but i'll just take the bus or train and meet him there

anyway!

not thinking too much of elaine any more...that's a

relief....smoking bang helps or perhaps in a sense "completes the

circle" since that was a key factor leading to separation in

first place....(?)....(food for thought there, mah freynd....)

june 27

fun time: final exams. the students are great. i see less and

less of ted: he's either in the fucking "fish bar" down near the

bazaar drinking beer with jim (and sometimes mashid, and me)--but

ted chases no women nor men neither, methinks--or holed up in his

room reading psych books and listening to records. "hey jude,

don't be afraid...."

july 3:

classes ended friday. i was getting ready to blast out on a

"greyhound" for the afghan border (charlie leaves on his bike

next week) when, allah be praised, i learned yesterday that a

"hippy bus" from london with a big DELHI sign on top--crossed

channel on a ferry--has serendipitously stopped in our wholesome

city. young freaks (all european) staying at cheap hotels down-

twn right in my neighborhood so easy to meet them and get the

scoop. they have a few seats, the driver gives me a good price if

i hop off in kabul, as is my plan...should be

interesting....there are some nice chicks, mainly english, german

and/or swiss (not many french apparently, too bad) but they seem

pretty spaced out....one german girl (whipped out the old

tongue on her) said she was living in a bathroom of the shah

hotel so i dunno....

july 6:

hippy bus leaves tomorrow.....or.....one day soon? persian time

is rubber time, as they say. "hey folks, it's rubber time!" (why

have they stayed already a week in teheran? repairing bus or some such?

maybe, but whenever i ask anyone including the driver, they're always

too far gone to give a coherent answer. well, ok, a few brits were

talking about seeing the mosques....maybe someone made a quick trip

down to isfahan....)

so when the fuck will i buy a rug to send back to the

states? (well, i'll be back here for another year at least but

mashid encourages me to buy one soon: "sooner is better." maybe

prices going up i dunno.) every time i go into the bazaar i get

lured by those fucking bozos with their hash pipes and little

glasses of tea and virtually "never get back out again" (as ted

heal puts it) (interesting paradox here, since the problem is i

DON'T buy the rug, but i haven't quite fathomed it yet)....(oh,

is see, that's the pt., my life = the ongoing "bazaar" in that

sense.) hmmm. (those guys just want to practice their english, i

think. "shoma anglisi baladid?" or maybe think i can turn them on

to some foreign chicks. especially yesterday since i was there

with frieda of the hippy bus.)

july 10

all right! blasted out of dog city on the hippy bus this

morning, mostly sat in seat alone staring at the prairie, trying

to meditate sufi style (sucking stomach up own asshole) and/or

decode overheard german conversations, but i enjoyed it....sat

and talked with mad frieda for about an hour but she's steadily

toking up like many on bus, driver just breathing it all in!

about halfway to mashad in the middle of fucking nowhere the bus

stopped and the driver said he needed pure water for radiator

(seems hotter to them than to me, that's for sure), so they had

me walking thru this tiny village, mainly the chelo-kebab shops,

asking "Shoma ab darid?" but all i could get was very ordinary

bottled water. they're already carrying lots of this stuff so i

couldn't imagine why the driver thought what i'd found would be

better for his radiator.....(in fact the irani kid had probably

pissed in it for good measure)....but he said the "native water

would be better for the machine." conclusion: desert of eastern

iran (after coming through turkey and western iran), with its

mystical visions, has truly started to fry his brain. (maybe all

their brains.) but: the bus is running.

got into mashad just at sunset, beautiful, chelo kebab dinner

next to cheap hotel where we sleep tonight....may have a shot at

frieda....walking streets after dinner a young irani man, learn-

ing i was the one american in the group, said in perfect english,

with a delightfully world-weary, sardonic tone: "You dig a hole

anywhere in the world and an american will crawl out." maybe i

was supposed to be insulted but i just laughed my ass off. it's

true, of course.

trying not to smoke too much....what better way to "get in

shape" for afghanistan?!?

july 12

jesus christ, yesterday morning paul the driver drove us out

to some "campground" basically in the desert just east of mashad and

about 5 kilimeters west of the afghan border. looks like this time he

really IS fixing something in the engine, but when i asked him he just

said he was "cooling it off for a while." (?!) so these guys mostly

all hung around the bus, napping inside or outside on their blankets

on the ground--some under the bus to get out of the sun. i took a local

bus into town with two brits and a swede and we spent all afternoon in

tea-shops. (not much else to do, of course.) then we came back to the

bus around 6 and they all started asking us to show them how to take the

bus into town to a restaurant for dinner, so we did that. (these guys

are burnt, man.) then all came back to the bus around nine and we all

slept in or on our sleeping bags on the ground...luckily almost never

rains in the desert, and mosquitoes are not bad....(they told me before

this is how they slept most nights since leaving england but only now

did this fact fully sink in.) in a word: i couldn't sleep for shit and

feel like shit this morning. therefore:

i'm blasting, man! why wait for kabul to jump off the hippy bus?

i can just hop a local bus that goes right to the afghan border--a young

guy was just telling me--and crosses it and then on the herat!

i can be in herat tonight! (who knows how long paul and company will

be wasting away in their little "campground" here?!) i'm blasting, man!

i'm psyched!

frank stevenson, taipei

=========================================================================

Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 15:09:24 +0800

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Frank Stevenson <t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>

Subject: coned pome

Comments: To: derrida <derrida@cfrvm.cfr.usf.edu>

coned

god

blown

open as

leaves to

twigs flown

innermown ear

sounding oceans

shellfish sparked

blind moles of hide

hanging halfcocked in

boneshot marrow skin so

skyspaced as dung bee tao

tao too buzz in cored nerve

arc of brain rhizomic burning

branched cone flung treebarking

hair of wind wall wailing saw

skullsong floating sea sung

tao bee dung as skyspaced

so skin marrow boneshot

in halfcocked hanging

hide of moles blind

sparked shellfish

oceans sounding

ear innermown

flown twigs

to leaves

as open

blown

dog

frank stevenson

=========================================================================

Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 09:23:41 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject: Re: MTV (blah, blah, blah)

Nick>Its like critizing Tarentino for ripping off John Woo

films - all we know about film comes from other films, so why not?

I think Tarantino was criticized most heavily for ripping off Ringo Lam's

City on Fire for the film Resevoir Dogs.

Anyhow Nick, I liked your mini-essay on on exploitation. I don't really

agree per se, (except with the Ginsberg comments). But with this in mind

my comments are, so what?

What you are saying is true. But so what. Everyone needs to make money.

kerouac's books were published by exploitation publishers. Just like

Burrough's Junky.

Now I could agree with you when it comes to hypocrisy. I don't know if

that comes into play here, but it is unrelated to the question of idealism

except that the staunchest idealists put themselves in the best positions

to become first rate hypocrits.

And since the topic here is MTV bus rides or something (I don't get cable)

wasn't there a show in the fifties or early sixties about two guys driving

around in a car (Route 66 maybe?). Kerouac actually sued back then for

them stealing his On the Road premise.

=========================================================================

Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 22:23:45 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: MTV (blah, blah, blah)

My gosh this is a cynical bunch. Their TV program looks more interesting

than most of the mindslop on TV. Why pre-judge them? Why pre-judge anybody?

In fact, except for violence, why judge anybody at all.

I think the overriding message of Kerouac's writings is a sort of childlike

optimism and wonder with the world. I'd love to see more of that on this

list.

my 2 cents.

Howard Park

=========================================================================

Date: Sun, 30 Jul 1995 06:52:41 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Jacob Miller <CrowCntr@AOL.COM>

Subject: Quality Poetry

Hello All!!!

I'm looking for poetry submissions, book reviews (of new and old poetry...

or anything...) and music reviews for a new poetry newsletter/ magazine.

I've read many other magazines, and decided it was time to publish a

*quality* poetry zine. I am just starting here, so please bear with me...

Guidelines:

Just about anything goes...

POETRY: (I need LOTS of this....)

Any subject (within reason and good taste)

Length: No more than , oh about 75-100 lines? (negotiable)

Previously unpublished (I don't want to get into any copywrite wars...)

BOOK REVIEWS:

I need reviews on new poet's books, established poet's books, or any

good books you've read and think others would like to read ( probably two or

three reviews per issue, depends on length)

Length: please no more than 300-500 words (also negotiable)

MUSIC:

I need reviews and/or opinions on newly released and classic albumns.

Reviews should be analyzing the poetic aspects of the music and lyrics.

Length: 300-500 words (also negotiable)

SHORT STORY: (sometimes...)

If I have room, I will occasionally publish a short story...

This can be on any subject, fiction, or non, and no longer that 1500

words.

ADVERTISING:

If you have a chapbook, or contest, or whatever, you can put an ad (2

1/2" x 3 1/2") in this zine for $25 for one issue.

PAYMENT:

Payment for a published writer in this magazine, will be two free

copies of the issue in which s/he's featured. Extra copies may be purchased

for two $.32 stamps each.

PRICE!!!!!!!:

This is a free publication!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am planning a sample to be published in November of this year as the

Premier issue! If you would like to recieve a copy please send two $.32

stamps to:

MR JONES:

c/o Jacob Miller

8L Lakeside Drive

Ledyard, CT 06339

Thank you all for taking the time to read this...

-> Please E-Mail *All* submissions to me at CrowCntr@aol.com

-> Please Label your submission - MJ SUB: "Title or subject of submission

here..." - in the subject line of the mail.

-> Remeber to include your real name, and real address with your

submission.

Jacob Miller - CrowCntr@aol.com

P.S. - I will try to include a brief crtique with all submissions, whether

accepted or not. :)

---------------------------

"Figure it! The pining peever! To a Mookse."

-James Joyce - "Finnegan's Wake"

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 10:32:12 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Josephine Thomson <Josephine=Thomson%OAE%AVN@SMTPGATE.DOTC.GOV.AU>

Subject: Re: coned pome

Frank StevensonWrote:

>a coned pome

Great poem, Frank. Excellent courage to post it; I never would, way too

chicken.

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 10:36:07 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Josephine Thomson <Josephine=Thomson%OAE%AVN@SMTPGATE.DOTC.GOV.AU>

Subject: Re: MTV (blah, blah, blah)

Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM> Wrote:

| My gosh this is a cynical bunch. Their TV program looks more interesting

| than most of the mindslop on TV. Why pre-judge them? Why pre-judge

anybody?

| In fact, except for violence, why judge anybody at all.

Thanks for this, Howard. On the strength of all the other mails, I was going

to go home and burn all the photos my husband and I took when we drove around

Australia. We knew we weren't the first adventurers but we had a fabulous

time nonetheless, met some interesting and unusual people and it felt fresh

and new to us; not at all like it had all been done before.

my 5 cents worth (2 cent coins aren't in circulation here no more)

-Josephine

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 19:18:46 +0800

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Frank Stevenson <t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>

Subject: chinese phil conference

Comments: cc: cybermind@jefferson.village.virginia.edu

"1 more time," the man muttered to himself, trying to send out the

note in the tiny bottle onto the chaotic tossing grey sea: it's my last

chance as fly to boston tomorrow (gain a day midflight, pretty weird), am

to present a paper on "i ching" and derridean "writing" (with perhaps

some mention also of deleuze's (& jd's) "fold"/spinozist

expression/implic/explication/[un]"folding" of world)

at an int'l conference of chinese philsophy at B.U. in Boston Aug. 4-8

(though don't know which day yet): anyway, if anyone happens to be in

boston then, welcome to come to this conference--sponsored by Robert

Neville, Dean of School of Theology--on any of these days and see what's

happening......

although I'm notoriously metaphysical and virtually "APOLITICAL"

(or maintain the illusion of being so) if this (illusion) is still

possible in our hyper-political age, many of these scholars of chinese

phil are very political indeed, and quite a few will be from PRC i think

(i may need to help "guide" some of them around town, should be fun) and

these cats tend to be VERRRRY political and see phil as a totally and

manifestly political instrument, as 'twere (which strangely i never could)

....will be much awareness of Harry Wu, PRC/ROC (Taiwan)/USA relations,

etc etc....(sans doute)....Hope to maybe meet a few of you invisible

creatures there....

Frank W. Stevenson

National Taiwan Normal University, Taipei

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 19:41:18 +0800

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Frank Stevenson <t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>

Subject: Re: coned pome

In-Reply-To: <199507310029.KAA17836@netmanager.dotc.gov.au>

tanks mon! (thank you, ms. thomson.) i wrote that about 2 yrs ago i

think...wldn't have thought it needed "courage" to post such a poem (just

vanity perhaps, i dunno)--i mean, not too shocking or "obscene" or

anthing like that....just kind of free-form expression, maybe sligthly

schizophrenic around the gills.....("why, i've posted such shocking

things you wouldn't believe! why, i'll post ANYTHING man!

i'll...i'll....i'lllll") fws, taipei (but in boston tomorrow!)

On Mon, 31 Jul 1995, Josephine Thomson wrote:

> Frank StevensonWrote:

> >a coned pome

> Great poem, Frank. Excellent courage to post it; I never would, way too

> chicken.

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 09:50:50 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Kristen VanRiper <pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>

Subject: Re: RECENT DISCUSSION (fwd)

In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.90.950729190309.2018G-100000@sun4> from "Frank

Stevenson" at Jul 29, 95 07:03:45 pm

> Thank you, Ms. L.B. Bissell, for your wondrous reply-post, full of

> brilliance and wit and at a level of sophistication (Oxford....hmmm, that

> might explain it....notice typical Yank inferiority complex at work here,

> which may help to explain following "ant" metaphor with Lilliputian amp-

> litudes) sufficient to keep me luxuriously "feeding" upon it

> for days and weeks, at my leisure in the late afternoon sun....(more or

> less like a swarm of hungry ants feeding upon the sweetest honied

> carcass....)

> I realize I'm probably too quick to reject the (seemingly, but perhaps

> I've over-simplified them, perhaps that's the point) more blatantly political

> and "politically correct" forms of criticism so fashionable now, e.g.

> cultural studies, post-colonialism, etc: BUT I would still maintain (as

> I did at a recent American Lit conference here where evveryone was saying

> we must emphasize plurality and DIFFERENCES among ethnic groups, no

> old-fashioned notion of lit as expressing UNIVERSAL human qualities was

> to be allowed--because it's always the ones in "power" that define the

> univversal, is that it? this seems nonsense to me--that when Hamlet says

> "Alas poor Yorick,/I knew him well, Horatio/He was a fellow of infinite

> jest"....or when Chguang-tzu says "This is also that," there is something

> deeper and more "univversal" at work or play than the levvel of

> socio-ethnic-political "differences" or group-identities....)

> fws

i am ignorant of the response you are referring to, but as for your view

about the "politically correct'ness" being thrown about here, i must

agree. it's a reality that takes away from unification. the americans

who emphasize the importance of pc'ness are relentless in the pursuit of

breaking groups into smaller subunits until a connection ceases to exist.

i recently heard a speaker in biology give a talk about vitamin d

production in relation to melanin production and uv exposure. her

science spoke of the only reason physical differences exist...it was the

best talk i've heard in a long time. i got to thinking that it's the

physical differences that contribute to the fear of the societal

differences...it seems to be a neverending ride that leads to

intolerance. her talk wasn't so focused that it narrowed the mind of the

listener as many science people do. she brought us all together.

i have enjoyed your submissions. i, too, have experienced the meditative

effect of nature. (i find that focusing on my breath leads me to the voices

that flow in my mind..not peaceful at all) and i look forward to your

talk about the i ching. i've spoken with pagans and got interested in the

connection with runes and the i ching. seems like if we go back further

and further...we all follow a similar path. slight modifications turn

into drastic differences only when we perceive them as such.

i'm not a literary scholar. in fact, you intimidate me, fws. but the

tao brings me balance and as long as i see this, there is peace.

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 13:21:48 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Kristen VanRiper <pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>

Subject: Re: going down 2 (fwd)

In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.90.950729185553.2018C-100000@sun4> from "Frank

Stevenson" at Jul 29, 95 06:56:04 pm

fws

reading your journal entries reminded me of a discussion i had with a

friend the other day. he's completely devoted to proust and when i asked

him if that's why he connected with neal cassidy, he told me that he

never read _on the road_, but that he knew cassidy was (among other things)

a habitual masturbator. i got to thinking about why... he was seeking

the pleasure and the experience, but he probably didn't know of another

way to experience intense physical pleasure other than climax. so he did

it again and again, leaving him empty until the next time. you mention the

"dirtiness" of anal sex...yet tantric sex concentrates in this area for a

man... (i wonder if cassidy had experienced this, or if his pleasure was

always stop and go..never reaching a higher level of sensation)

i guess this is all related to feelings i have about false starts in my

life...traveling along a path, not feeling doubt or regret, not feeling

much of anything. never questioning, just following, then the spark...my

mind opens and i see things are not as they seemed. i am frightened and

doubtful...all my life i've thought that if i made decisions that were true to

myself, i wouldn't regret them, i mean, regret is useless, it can't change

things. but here i am...no longer in pursuit of a goal i thought i believed in.

how could i have let myself go so far without questioning? like many in

science, i put on blinders...i won't get into it...it's boring.

i said that you intimidate me...intimidation is the wrong word...(i do not

choose words well)...it's your life and your choices that overwhelm me...at

least from what you have written to this group. the feeling that i am

starting over in my pursuits scares me...realizing there is so little i know

compared to what is out there... and yet i've never been more alive. maybe

i've just transferred to a different route.

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 03:04:31 +0800

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Frank Stevenson <t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>

Subject: Re: going down 2 (fwd)

In-Reply-To: <199507311721.NAA08601@imageek.york.cuny.edu>

Thanks for your note....I dunno, those are just actual journal entries

(based that is on true events, I was teaching in Teheran and then heading

east) from 1974, but somewhat edited/reised....(Maybe 'cause I'm 50 now

and stuck in a pretty routine family and teaching life I tend to remember

this stuff more and more and live in the memories, and always have less

qualms about "publishing" it than I once would have--I don;t know why my

newfound desire to "publish" this stuff, which once I'd have been too shy

or embarrassed to do....some kind of strange theraphy maybe, or more like

i just "don't give a hit what others will think" any more....but the main

thing about those years in the Middle East & India was (as should be

clear from the journals) I was much too "into" getting stoned (hashish),

that was my whole life, I didn't think about sex (of course, when stoned

one doesn't "need" it) much at all, or anything else (money, politics,

etc)...(i never thought about hetero vs homosexual or anal vs genital vvs

oral sex etc in those days & only added that entry because i know how

people NOW are so obsessed (?) with these things...people are so

"political" now, no? what happened to the good old days (60's/70's) of

(well, ok) sex, DRUGS and rock 'n' roll? (i often wonder about this: i

think living in asia since 1973 has effectively frozen me in time...)

i'll be in boston at b.u. at a chinese phil conference aug 4-8; i may

come down to haunt the east village aug 15-20 or so.... frank stevenson

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 16:12:27 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Kristen VanRiper <pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>

Subject: Re: going down 2 (fwd)

In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.90.950801025635.28856E-100000@sun4> from "Frank

Stevenson" at Aug 1, 95 03:04:31 am

> Thanks for your note....I dunno, those are just actual journal entries

> (based that is on true events, I was teaching in Teheran and then heading

> east) from 1974, but somewhat edited/reised....(Maybe 'cause I'm 50 now

> and stuck in a pretty routine family and teaching life I tend to remember

> this stuff more and more and live in the memories, and always have less

> qualms about "publishing" it than I once would have--I don;t know why my

> newfound desire to "publish" this stuff, which once I'd have been too shy

i read something and feel as if that person is here with me right

now...i'm sure many others do. i know what you mean about the

therapy..it's a catharsis for me...only difference is that i do care too

much what other people think. have to get over this.

> or embarrassed to do....some kind of strange theraphy maybe, or more like

> i just "don't give a hit what others will think" any more....but the main

> thing about those years in the Middle East & India was (as should be

> clear from the journals) I was much too "into" getting stoned (hashish),

> that was my whole life, I didn't think about sex (of course, when stoned

> one doesn't "need" it) much at all, or anything else (money, politics,

> etc)...(i never thought about hetero vs homosexual or anal vs genital vvs

> oral sex etc in those days & only added that entry because i know how

> people NOW are so obsessed (?) with these things...people are so

> "political" now, no? what happened to the good old days (60's/70's) of

i think the key word is obsession..about sexuality, about drugs, about

government/politics and i think it comes from understanding only certain

aspects and not the overall picture. this is only my guess, but peyote

and coca leaves can bring about heightened awareness yet when their

abused (or altered chemically to be more concentrated) you lose that...it

goes downhill. a big problem i see is intolerance due to lack of

understanding about sexuality...politicians and clergy define sexual

boundaries and sexuality isn't black and white. one thing i've always

believed in is the constitution...freedom...but too many want

control...

too many sides pulling..something's gonna give.

> (well, ok) sex, DRUGS and rock 'n' roll? (i often wonder about this: i

> think living in asia since 1973 has effectively frozen me in time...)

> i'll be in boston at b.u. at a chinese phil conference aug 4-8; i may

> come down to haunt the east village aug 15-20 or so.... frank stevenson

don't know of a time that i would like to be frozen in...i think i've

been stuck for too long in the nothingness i felt in the 80's.

kristen

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 11:33:57 -1000

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Ray Freed <indigo@ILHAWAII.NET>

Subject: Re: going down 2 (fwd)

>> Thanks for your note....I dunno, those are just actual journal entries

>> (based that is on true events, I was teaching in Teheran and then heading

>> east) from 1974, but somewhat edited/reised....(Maybe 'cause I'm 50 now

>> and stuck in a pretty routine family and teaching life I tend to remember

>> this stuff more and more and live in the memories, and always have less

>> qualms about "publishing" it than I once would have--I don;t know why my

>> newfound desire to "publish" this stuff, which once I'd have been too shy

>i read something and feel as if that person is here with me right

>now...i'm sure many others do. i know what you mean about the

>therapy..it's a catharsis for me...only difference is that i do care too

>much what other people think. have to get over this.

>> or embarrassed to do....some kind of strange theraphy maybe, or more like

>> i just "don't give a hit what others will think" any more....but the main

>> thing about those years in the Middle East & India was (as should be

>> clear from the journals) I was much too "into" getting stoned (hashish),

>> that was my whole life, I didn't think about sex (of course, when stoned

>> one doesn't "need" it) much at all, or anything else (money, politics,

>> etc)...(i never thought about hetero vs homosexual or anal vs genital vvs

>> oral sex etc in those days & only added that entry because i know how

>> people NOW are so obsessed (?) with these things...people are so

>> "political" now, no? what happened to the good old days (60's/70's) of

>i think the key word is obsession..about sexuality, about drugs, about

>government/politics and i think it comes from understanding only certain

>aspects and not the overall picture. this is only my guess, but peyote

>and coca leaves can bring about heightened awareness yet when their

>abused (or altered chemically to be more concentrated) you lose that...it

>goes downhill. a big problem i see is intolerance due to lack of

>understanding about sexuality...politicians and clergy define sexual

>boundaries and sexuality isn't black and white. one thing i've always

>believed in is the constitution...freedom...but too many want

>control...

>too many sides pulling..something's gonna give.

>> (well, ok) sex, DRUGS and rock 'n' roll? (i often wonder about this: i

>> think living in asia since 1973 has effectively frozen me in time...)

>> i'll be in boston at b.u. at a chinese phil conference aug 4-8; i may

>> come down to haunt the east village aug 15-20 or so.... frank stevenson

>don't know of a time that i would like to be frozen in...i think i've

>been stuck for too long in the nothingness i felt in the 80's.

>kristen

>please stop jamming my mailbox with this personal shit, keep on the beat

topic or use e-mail.

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 11:31:45 -1000

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Ray Freed <indigo@ILHAWAII.NET>

Subject: Re: going down 2 (fwd)

>Thanks for your note....I dunno, those are just actual journal entries

>(based that is on true events, I was teaching in Teheran and then heading

>east) from 1974, but somewhat edited/reised....(Maybe 'cause I'm 50 now

>and stuck in a pretty routine family and teaching life I tend to remember

>this stuff more and more and live in the memories, and always have less

>qualms about "publishing" it than I once would have--I don;t know why my

>newfound desire to "publish" this stuff, which once I'd have been too shy

>or embarrassed to do....some kind of strange theraphy maybe, or more like

>i just "don't give a hit what others will think" any more....but the main

>thing about those years in the Middle East & India was (as should be

>clear from the journals) I was much too "into" getting stoned (hashish),

>that was my whole life, I didn't think about sex (of course, when stoned

>one doesn't "need" it) much at all, or anything else (money, politics,

>etc)...(i never thought about hetero vs homosexual or anal vs genital vvs

>oral sex etc in those days & only added that entry because i know how

>people NOW are so obsessed (?) with these things...people are so

>"political" now, no? what happened to the good old days (60's/70's) of

>(well, ok) sex, DRUGS and rock 'n' roll? (i often wonder about this: i

>think living in asia since 1973 has effectively frozen me in time...)

>i'll be in boston at b.u. at a chinese phil conference aug 4-8; i may

>come down to haunt the east village aug 15-20 or so.... frank stevenson

>this has nothing to do with the topic..............find another forum or,

better

yet, confine your correspondence to e-mail.

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 11:29:54 -1000

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Ray Freed <indigo@ILHAWAII.NET>

Subject: Re: going down 2 (fwd)

>fws

>reading your journal entries reminded me of a discussion i had with a

>friend the other day. he's completely devoted to proust and when i asked

>him if that's why he connected with neal cassidy, he told me that he

>never read _on the road_, but that he knew cassidy was (among other things)

>a habitual masturbator. i got to thinking about why... he was seeking

>the pleasure and the experience, but he probably didn't know of another

>way to experience intense physical pleasure other than climax. so he did

>it again and again, leaving him empty until the next time. you mention the

>"dirtiness" of anal sex...yet tantric sex concentrates in this area for a

>man... (i wonder if cassidy had experienced this, or if his pleasure was

>always stop and go..never reaching a higher level of sensation)

>i guess this is all related to feelings i have about false starts in my

>life...traveling along a path, not feeling doubt or regret, not feeling

>much of anything. never questioning, just following, then the spark...my

>mind opens and i see things are not as they seemed. i am frightened and

>doubtful...all my life i've thought that if i made decisions that were true to

>myself, i wouldn't regret them, i mean, regret is useless, it can't change

>things. but here i am...no longer in pursuit of a goal i thought i

believed in.

>how could i have let myself go so far without questioning? like many in

>science, i put on blinders...i won't get into it...it's boring.

>i said that you intimidate me...intimidation is the wrong word...(i do not

>choose words well)...it's your life and your choices that overwhelm me...at

>least from what you have written to this group. the feeling that i am

>starting over in my pursuits scares me...realizing there is so little i know

>compared to what is out there... and yet i've never been more alive. maybe

>i've just transferred to a different route.

>what the hell does this have to do with beat discussion?

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 15:46:21 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: VJ <the.Literary.Denim@PRIMENET.COM>

Subject: Frank Stevenson

Get off the channel, Frank. Yr off topic, yr topic is noise, yr writing is

mediocre, and yr a nuisance.

Everyone else . . . sorry for the flame, but this guy's ego has poured into

this channel for more than I can be quiet about, and this is the only way I

can get at him.

Frank: go away!

\\|//

(o o)

--------------oOO--( )--OOo----------------------

vj@primenet.com | City Pigeons

Tempe, AZ | Ate Popcorn on Mkt St.

| But Now They're Dead

--------------ooooO---Ooooo----------------------

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 15:54:04 PDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject: Re: Frank Stevenson

In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 31 Jul 1995 15:46:21 -0700

At least Frank is posting something. Taking it to e-mail becomes a valid

thing to do at a certain point, I agree, but I don not think frank has to go

away.

I would rather get Frank's stuff than these whiner mssges from Hawaii and

Tempe.

Tim

(To hear Jack speak:

http://www-hsc.usc.edu/!gallaher/k_speaks/kerouacspeaks.html

)

ugh that should be ~gallaher (not !gallaher) aye yo

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 09:02:06 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Josephine Thomson <Josephine=Thomson%OAE%AVN@SMTPGATE.DOTC.GOV.AU>

Subject: Frank & Kirsten are okay by me

To VJ & Ray & anyone else:

I quite enjoyed Kirsten & Frank's contributions. And what they are saying is

relevant to this newsgroup: the search for how to live. I think it is

impossible to discuss the beats. or any other literature which really moves

you, without coming back to the personal. Besides, we're all meant to be

friends of a sort and what's wrong with tolerating someone branching off, just

a little, from the topic?

Josephine

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 09:06:16 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Josephine Thomson <Josephine=Thomson%OAE%AVN@SMTPGATE.DOTC.GOV.AU>

Subject: going down to get a dictionary

Sorry: Kristen, not Kirsten.

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 17:25:26 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Lisa Bonelli <BONELLI@SONOMA.EDU>

Subject: Re: Frank & Kirsten are okay by me

Who is Frank?

It is not so much the subject, but when I logged on today, I

thought some how the freeway signs on the information highway ahd

become reversed and I got on the wrong path. I don't quite understand

how those messages tie in to a discussion of Beat writers. Yes,

sometimes its quite on this newsgroup, but personally I'm not in favor

of random postings that are not related to the Beats. I'm probably not

alone in having @ 50 msgs. a day to get through, and prefer to at least

know what the heck is going on when I pull up a message. This is definately

NOT a FLAME of Frank, Kirsten or anyone else. Just MHO.

Lisa

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 23:02:37 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "John A. Urciuoli" <JUrciuoli@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: beats and the femmes

I read your comment and fully agreed. You may want to read a fine book

titled Minor Characters. This book delves into the exact territory you are

discussing. It is written by Joyce Johnson. She was Kerouacs girlfriend

during the two years surrounding the publication of On The Road. Very

enlightening. Check it out.

John-

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 23:48:42 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Gene Simakowicz <Genebard@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: going down 2 (fwd)

Interesting comments and observations...really.

But are you guys in the right room? Anyway, just got into Chinaski's

HOLLYWOOD...If you're a Bukowski fan, you'll enjoy it. It's about the making

of the BARFLY film.

Maintain,

Gene