>

> Those of you my age, may remember in the early 1970's, the Moody Blues put

> out an album, and there was a song on it titled, I think, "Seventh

> Sojourn," in which they sang the lyrics, "Timothy Leary's dead," over and

> over. I recently heard that the members of the group recently had

> telephone conference call with Dr. Leary and sang to him over the phone,

> "Timothy Leary's Alive." I thought that was really wonderful.

>

> Thanks for your time,

>

> Mary Beth

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 6 May 1996 09:12:36 +0300

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Michael Czarnecki <peent@SERVTECH.COM>

Subject:      Re: Beat writing...

 

>jonathan wrote:

>I had a really groovy experience tonight..I just sat down, and I had so

>much to think about, and so much running through my mind, so I just

>pulled up MSWord and started to type and type and type and not bother to

>go back and fix little things unless I wanted to and just run on and run

>on.  It was just a complete outpouring of my mind onto paper, like some

>of Neal's letters, so packed and so full of stuff...wow!  It was quite an

>experience to actually do, to let it just happen and flow...has anyone

>else had this similiar experience?  Where they just sat down and WROTE?

>I'd be interested in discussing this further...

 

Great to hear of your experience! Sounds like it has changed you in some

way. Keep on.

 

I've done a bit of writing that way. I'll sit down, turn on the computer,

set up a page and just start writing. Take the first thought to enter my

mind and just go with it till I finish a page. That's it. One page flowing

out from somewhere onto the screen. Started a few years ago and do so every

once in a while. One screen's worth of stream stuff.

 

I remember reading somewhere recently that Jack would carry a small pocket

notebook around and some of his poetry, the blues stuff, SF and Mex City,

were written to fit a page in the little book. Form limited in size by what

written on! Computer screens, pocket notebooks.

 

Some people see spontaneous writing as just an exercise but I strongly

disagree with them. The letting it go, letting it come out as it does, the

more you do it the easier it gets, like with most things. There's the craft

of writing, which is important, and then there's the pure

creative/spiritual side of it which to me is where the real excitement

lies. The spontaneous writing, when we really allow the spontaneity without

our self critic looking over our shoulder at each line we write, allows

that pure creative/spiritual aspect to surface more often.

 

Keep letting it flow.

 

Michael

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 6 May 1996 09:27:27 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Robert Peltier <robert.peltier@MAIL.TRINCOLL.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Beat writing...

 

 the craft

>of writing, which is important, and then there's the pure

>creative/spiritual side of it which to me is where the real excitement

>lies. The spontaneous writing, when we really allow the spontaneity without

>our self critic looking over our shoulder at each line we write, allows

>that pure creative/spiritual aspect to surface more often.

>

This may be therapeutic, but if you intend to publish, don't torture your

readers with every random thought that pops out of your head.  Stream of

consciousness is prose that suggests thought at a preverbal level, but in

order to do that, you must edit carefully and construct that consciousness.

Read Joyce's _Ulysses_ and _Finnegan's Wake_ as well as Faulkner's _The

Sound and the Fury_ (esp. the first two sections).

 

I think most writers try to rid themselves of the "self critic" (I know I

do), but it is much more difficult than it sounds.  When it happens, go!

But when you're done, revise, and when you're done revising, edit.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 6 May 1996 08:44:15 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         "John W. Hasbrouck" <jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>

Subject:      Re: Cassady-Kerouac

 

Jon Schwartz wrote:

>

> Hi John H.!

>

> Thanks for the tip on the new edition of "The First Third."  Do you or does

> anyone have price and format info on it?

>

> Best regards to all,

>

> Jon

>

TFT is in print from City Lights Books and is usually available at the

big superstores like Border's and Barnes & Noble. Shop by phone!

 

John H.

Chicago

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 6 May 1996 08:48:18 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         "John W. Hasbrouck" <jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>

Subject:      Re: The Last Time I Committed Suicide

 

Dear John I.

 

The Cassady Rap under discussion can be found at the following URL:

 

 

ftp://gdead.berkeley.edu/pub/gdead/miscellaneous/Cassady-Rap

 

 

Later,

John H.

Chicago

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 6 May 1996 08:54:39 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         "John W. Hasbrouck" <jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>

Subject:      Re: Keroassady...

 

Matthew S Sackmann wrote:

>

>         I found some awesome books in a used book store today.  I was

> wondering what you guys think about the prices.  $25 for a first edition

> of Visions of Cody, hardcover.  $30 for a 1rst ed. of Maggie Cassidy,

> soft.  And $60 for the 1rst british ed. of Maggie Cassidy, 1rst hardcover

> ed.   I didnt buy these but i did buy Satori in Paris & Pic, Grace beats

> Karma (finally, ive found some of neals writings), On the Road (a copy

> for my brother), No nature (Snyder), Look Homeward, Angel (Wolfe), and a

> book that contains poems by Bukowski and Phillip Lamantia.  All in all it

> was a very successful outing!

> Goodnight

>

> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

> matt

>

$25 for 1st ed. VOC is fantastic. Buy it immediately. I've seen it for

$100. MC in softcover isn't worth a penny more than $30 nowadays. It

depends on the condition. If it's perfect and you want it, get it.

Don't know about the British edition.

 

John H.

Chicago

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 6 May 1996 10:40:46 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         SPOTS OF TIME <breithau@KENYON.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Beat writing...

 

Jonathan, that is supposedly the way Whitman wrote the first draft of Leaves of

Grass. This first non-stream writing is published in a seperate Penguin edition

with an interesting forward by Malcom Cowley about "trance writing." Give it a

look.

 

Dave B.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 6 May 1996 14:14:19 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Matthew S Sackmann <msackma@MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU>

Subject:      I'm moving...

Comments: To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"

          <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.EDU>

In-Reply-To:  <009A1EC0.F2A51420.26@kenyon.edu>

 

Im going home today and my email is changing, but i want to stay on the list.

Could someone please send me info to :  lsackma@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU

 

i guess ill just subscribe again.  but i forgot how to, so id love it if

someone sent me the information to the above address.  Thanks a lot!!

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

matt

 

"Jesus was all virtue, and acted from impulse, not from rules."

                -William Blake

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 6 May 1996 16:39:44 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         "Michael E. Frank" <ATRANE207@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Enjoy This

 

Hi;

 

Just a few thoughts on "Chaos & Cyber Culture" List...I mailed the list to a

friend and he commented "I seem to fit in all the categories but looking back

it seems (the list) a bit shallower than I remember". I  tend to agree

although I can only identify with the  years ' 54 - ' 75 since I opted for

the "rat-race" in ' 72 when my daughter was born. No regrets but I don't

remember anything after ' 75. Since the counter-culture of the "beats" &

sixties weren't created in a vacuum I thought it might be historically

interesting to regress the list to include "The Lost Generation"

(ex-patriates, G. Stein, Paris, etc.) Surrealists (auto-writing, painting

etc), dada, etc. as far back as one can create a list of the genealogy of

rebellion and counter-culture. Expand it to include anything of creative

interest that Leary didn't envision.  Also, since i'm new to this discussion,

I apoligise to anyone infuriated with my leaving (expanding) the Beat topic.

Let me know if I'm not relevant to the subject matter.

 

>See where you fit in the scheme from Toimothy Leary's Chaos & Cyber

Culture, Berkeley, CA: Ronin, 1994.

 

Evolution of Counter Culture

Beats (1950-1965)

Mood:           Cool, laid back.

Aesthetics-Erotics: Artistic, literate, hip. Interested in poetry, drugs,

                jazz.

Attitude: Sarcastic, cynical.

Brain-Tech: Low-tech, but early psychedelic explorers.

Intellectual viewpoint: Well-informed, skeptical, street-smart.

Humanist Quotient: tolerant of race and gay rights, but often male

                chauvinist.

Politics: Bohemian, anti-establishment.

Cosmic View: Romantic pessimism, Buddhist cosmology.

 

Hippies (1965-1975)

Mood: Blissed out.

Aesthetics-Erotics: Earthy, horny, free-love oriented. pot, LSD, acid rock.

Attitude: Peaceful, idealistic.

Brain-tech: Spychedelic, but anti-high-tech.

Intellectual Viewpoint: Know-it-all, anti-intellectual.

Humanist Quotient: Male chauvinist, sometimes sexits, but socially

                tolerant and global village visionary.

Politics: Classless, irreverent, passivist, but occasionally activist.

Cosmit View: Acceptance of chaotic nature of universe, but via Hindu

                passivity. Unscientific, occult minded, intuitive

 

etc. etc. etc..

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 6 May 1996 18:44:08 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         MS GAYLE M ALSTROM <gm_alstrom@PRODIGY.COM>

Subject:      Mail List

 

Please remove my name from your mailing list.

 

 

gm_alstrom@prodigy.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 6 May 1996 23:06:11 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>

Subject:      The only cows for me are the mad ones

 

I can't quite jibe Leary's description of Beats with Beat writing.

 

E.g.:

>Mood:           Cool, laid back.

 

the beat principals strike me more as leaning into rather than laid back,

with the possible exception of Burroughs

 

>Attitude: Sarcastic, cynical.

 

No. But then again, I'm thinking about the writers and writing, he's talking

about the culture.

 

>Cosmic View: Romantic pessimism, Buddhist cosmology.

 

Again, I'm not sure about the pessimism. Off the top of my head, I can't

remember reading any pessimistic Kerouac; sad, tortured, yes, but not

pessimistic. Ginsberg, no - in fact, the two cosmic views selected by Leary

seem exactly opposed. But again, Burroughs, yes.

 

Where's the beatific in Leary's summary?

 

Just thinkin' out loud......and pouting 'cause I wanted to see Wm. T.

Vollmann in Chicago today, and didn't get to....

 

Jules

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 6 May 1996 21:40:52 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Jonathan Kratter <jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US>

Subject:      Re: Beat writing...

In-Reply-To:  <v01530500adb343f59b90@[204.181.15.86]>

 

Exactly...you just let it flow...much like the style that On the Road was

written in only moreso, more like Catcher in The Rye, which is mocked

spontaneous prose, the spontaneous prose of Holden Caulfield, but done by

Salinger...

 

drink deeply,

jonathan

 

-------------

Jonathan Kratter

jonkrat@nueva.pvt.k12.ca.us

 

        "I can't use contractions..."

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 7 May 1996 04:11:03 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         joe <100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>

Subject:      celestine prophecy

 

the book 'celestine prophecy' was mentioned on this list lately.  i'd never

heard about it (i'm in the uk) but at the time it was mentioned, i met a white

south-african girl in spain who had read it and recommended it quite highly.

sooo, i went out and bought it, just finished reading it and would like some

off-list ideas from beat readers who have also read it.

 

so anyone out there read it please e-mail me on

 

100106.1102@compuserve.com  or  joe.carney@unn.ac.uk

 

 

cheers

 

joe

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 7 May 1996 07:57:50 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         "Michael E. Frank" <ATRANE207@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Enjoy This

 

Hi;

 

Just a few thoughts on "Chaos & Cyber Culture" List...I mailed the list to a

friend and he commented "I seem to fit in all the categories but looking back

it seems (the list) a bit shallower than I remember". I  tend to agree

although I can only identify with the  years ' 54 - ' 75 since I opted for

the "rat-race" in ' 72 when my daughter was born. No regrets but I don't

remember anything after ' 75. Since the counter-culture of the "beats" &

sixties weren't created in a vacuum I thought it might be historically

interesting to regress the list to include "The Lost Generation"

(ex-patriates, G. Stein, Paris, etc.) Surrealists (auto-writing, painting

etc), dada, etc. as far back as one can create a list of the genealogy of

rebellion and counter-culture. Expand it to include anything of creative

interest that Leary didn't envision.  Also, since i'm new to this discussion,

I apoligise to anyone infuriated with my leaving (expanding) the Beat topic.

Let me know if I'm not relevant to the subject matter.

 

>See where you fit in the scheme from Toimothy Leary's Chaos & Cyber

Culture, Berkeley, CA: Ronin, 1994.

 

Evolution of Counter Culture

Beats (1950-1965)

Mood:           Cool, laid back.

Aesthetics-Erotics: Artistic, literate, hip. Interested in poetry, drugs,

                jazz.

Attitude: Sarcastic, cynical.

Brain-Tech: Low-tech, but early psychedelic explorers.

Intellectual viewpoint: Well-informed, skeptical, street-smart.

Humanist Quotient: tolerant of race and gay rights, but often male

                chauvinist.

Politics: Bohemian, anti-establishment.

Cosmic View: Romantic pessimism, Buddhist cosmology.

 

Hippies (1965-1975)

Mood: Blissed out.

Aesthetics-Erotics: Earthy, horny, free-love oriented. pot, LSD, acid rock.

Attitude: Peaceful, idealistic.

Brain-tech: Spychedelic, but anti-high-tech.

Intellectual Viewpoint: Know-it-all, anti-intellectual.

Humanist Quotient: Male chauvinist, sometimes sexits, but socially

                tolerant and global village visionary.

Politics: Classless, irreverent, passivist, but occasionally activist.

Cosmit View: Acceptance of chaotic nature of universe, but via Hindu

                passivity. Unscientific, occult minded, intuitive

 

etc. etc. etc..

 

============== End part 2 ============================

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 7 May 1996 08:48:06 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Look Homeward, Matt.

 

Hello folks.  William Miller here.  Back on the list after an absence.

 

Matthew S Sackmann wrote:

>

>         I found some awesome books in a used book store today.  I was

> wondering what you guys think about the prices.  $25 for a first edition

> of Visions of Cody, hardcover.  $30 for a 1rst ed. of Maggie Cassidy,

> soft.  And $60 for the 1rst british ed. of Maggie Cassidy, 1rst hardcover

> ed.   I didnt buy these but i did buy Satori in Paris & Pic, Grace beats

> Karma (finally, ive found some of neals writings), On the Road (a copy

> for my brother), No nature (Snyder), Look Homeward, Angel (Wolfe), and a

> book that contains poems by Bukowski and Phillip Lamantia.  All in all it

> was a very successful outing!

> Goodnight

>

> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> matt

 

Matt, I'm interested.... did you buy a 1st edition of Look Homeward Angel, or

not.  Please e-mail me directly and let me know if you bought a 1st, and if

so, what you paid for it.  Being part of the best used bookstore in Wolfe's

hometown (the setting for most of LHA) I am always interested in knowing what

LHA is fetching.

 

Thanks.

 

William Miller

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 7 May 1996 10:11:44 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         "Peter R. McGahey" <PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>

Subject:      Salinger

 

Someone mentioned Salinger - what does everyone think of him in relation

to the Beats?  They were contemporaries, but Salinger did what Jack may have

wanted to do, get away from the screaming fans.  I think that Salinger's

explorations of Buddhism, particularly in his good works (Franny & Zooey,

Raise High . . .) would put him in some connection even though it is rather

tenuous.  Why was Buddhism such a rave thing then?  Eliot et al were into

Hindu etc because the Bagavad Gita (mis-spelled, I know) was recently

translated.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 7 May 1996 11:42:13 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         "J.D. P. Lafrance" <J.D._P._Lafrance@RIDLEY.ON.CA>

Organization: Ridley College

Subject:      Visions of Cody - Revisited

 

    I've finally gotten around to reading Kerouac's "Visions of Cody"... It's my

first time tackling this book (although not the first Kerouac book I've read)

and I am simply amazed at the amount of detail contained within... For example,

the book opens with a description of a diner and everything in it:

 

"Grill is ancient and dark and emits an odor which is really succulent, like you

would expect from the black hide of an old ham or an old pastrami beef -- The

lunchcart has stools with smooth slickwood tops -- there are wooden drawers for

where you find the long loaves of sandwich bread. The countermen: either Greeks

or have big red drink noses." (p.3)

 

Incredible stuff. I often find myself going over certain passages again in an

attempt to absorb all the details... Another thing that blows me away about this

book, is the sense of history Kerouac gives to the simplest descriptions....

 

"...Cody imagined Watson slept like the little boys in fleecy nightgowns in

mattress advertisements of the Saturday Evening Post, which he realized now he

was confusing with a rubber tire ad that shows a little boy wandering out of bed

with a candle on New Year's Eve but expresses the same tender comfort of angels

and vision of American children (ah poor Cody who'd seen this vision in those

soaked magazines that have been dried by the sun and stand on tattered edges

among weeds and cundrums of backlots)," (p. 62)

 

I think the power of Kerouac's prose is his ability to create such a vivid

picture of what he's talking about/describing in your mind... like a little

movie that only you can imagine... I've only read about 90 or so pages and it

find it to be a captivating read. wow.

 

bfn,

JDL

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 7 May 1996 11:02:25 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Timothy Gallaher <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Visions of Cody - Revisited

 

>    I've finally gotten around to reading Kerouac's "Visions of Cody"... It's

>my

>first time tackling this book (although not the first Kerouac book I've read)

>and I am simply amazed at the amount of detail contained within... For example,

>the book opens with a description of a diner and everything in it:

>

>"Grill is ancient and dark and emits an odor which is really succulent, like

>you

>would expect from the black hide of an old ham or an old pastrami beef -- The

>lunchcart has stools with smooth slickwood tops -- there are wooden drawers for

>where you find the long loaves of sandwich bread. The countermen: either Greeks

>or have big red drink noses." (p.3)

>

>Incredible stuff. I often find myself going over certain passages again in an

>attempt to absorb all the details... Another thing that blows me away about

>this

>book, is the sense of history Kerouac gives to the simplest descriptions....

>

>"...Cody imagined Watson slept like the little boys in fleecy nightgowns in

>mattress advertisements of the Saturday Evening Post, which he realized now he

>was confusing with a rubber tire ad that shows a little boy wandering out of

>bed

>with a candle on New Year's Eve but expresses the same tender comfort of angels

>and vision of American children (ah poor Cody who'd seen this vision in those

>soaked magazines that have been dried by the sun and stand on tattered edges

>among weeds and cundrums of backlots)," (p. 62)

>

>I think the power of Kerouac's prose is his ability to create such a vivid

>picture of what he's talking about/describing in your mind... like a little

>movie that only you can imagine... I've only read about 90 or so pages and it

>find it to be a captivating read. wow.

>

>bfn,

>JDL

 

Only 90 pages so far...Keep going (though I doubt I have to exhort you to

do this.

 

Your points are good.  These things are why kerouac is a great writer and

has lasted and will last.  I think the classic writers put these details

in.  They do two things at least which are provide the details of life in

their time--including seemingly mundane things like drawers in a diner

where the long loaves of bread are kept, and also proovide their personal

stories and thoughts going on with the characters in context of their real

world.

 

It's like taking a little chunk of existence of certain times and lifes and

laminating it or bronzing it or somehow making it available for posterity.

It is not inlike a portrait or photograph.  The writing you described above

is an example of kerouac's sketching method of writing he developed as

inspired by his architect friend (Ed White?  Alan Temko?--I can't remember

whom, but I do know it was the one who had his letters from kerouac

recently published in Missouri Review).  The architect friend kept a pad

and when he saw buildings of interest to him he pulled it out and sketched

them.  kerouac borrowed this technique and puled out a notepad and

"sketched" the things he saw--eg a diner.  Much of the first part of

Visions of Cody is this sketching.  Parts of this book were first published

in a book called "The Moderns" edited by LeRoi Jones (who now calls himself

Amiri Baraka and hangs out with Farakan).  The samples from Visions of Cody

in The Moderns was called New York Scenes.  Of interest is that if you read

the published Visions of Cody and compare it to the part published as New

York Scenes you see that Jones added a sentence or two to Kerouacs writing

that make overt sociopolitical points.  Interesting how Kerouac always

fought to not have his writings snipped by editors but in this case

something was added to his writing.  Wonder what Kerouac thought of this.

 

If you're on page 90 now just wait.  Whereas so far you've read strong

descriptive prose, albeit dense in words and sentence structure, you will

come to some wild and wooly rivers in the next few hundred pages.  The

first couple sections are downright realistic and down to Earth, when the

third part (I hope I am remembering the sections correctly--I haven't read

the book in years and don't have a copy of it), the third section is a

transcript of a tape recording which ostensibly would be more realism but

it turns out to be more surreal.  And then the fourth part called imitation

of the tape moves into the realm of pure thought and free association and

mind wandering--full of the beauty of language and imagery of an educated

mind (a multi-lingual one at that).

 

 

So the book moves from realistic to surrealistic (for lack of a better term

I'm using surrealistic).

 

Well, you get the idea, I think I'm becoming (as if I haven't been the

whole time) boring.  It many ways the book is like Dr. Sax with

straightforward descriptions of real life (as straightforward, that is, as

Kerouac's dense prose allows) combined with the hyperrealistic nongrounded

in objective reality parts.  They combine to create a whole.

 

Also I am wondering if anyone has any info as to what was included in the

initial 1960 new Directions abridged version of Visions of Cody?  Did they

include the new york scenes part of the book but leave out the more far-out

parts such as the Imitation of the Tape section?  If so it reminds me of

the initial offer made to Kerouac concerning Dr. Sax where the potential

publisher (Wyn?) suggested the fantastic parts of Sax be removed to leave a

narrative of boyhood.

 

Zai jian,

 

Tim

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 7 May 1996 15:07:56 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: The only cows for me are the mad ones

In-Reply-To:  Message of Mon, 6 May 1996 23:06:11 -0400 from <JHulvey@AOL.COM>

 

I think Leary is right about a certain pessimism inherent in Kerouac.

Kerouac was particularly pessimistic about the fate of America or the

loss of America's promise.  He referred to the later half of the 20th

century in America as a period of "Late Empire."    Look at Lonesome

Traveler--"the woods are full of wardens."  Ginsberg is more optimistic,

if only because he expects some kind of miracle, some redemption through

tender heartedness.  Nevertheless, there's a lot of pain and fear and

disappointment about America in all the major poems.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 7 May 1996 15:34:18 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: Salinger

In-Reply-To:  Message of Tue, 7 May 1996 10:11:44 EDT from

              <PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>

 

I think there are some connections.  In fact, I once wrote some notes for an ar

ticle comparing K and Salinger.  Hmmm!  Maybe, I'll see if I can dig them up.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 7 May 1996 15:33:23 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject:      Re: Visions of Cody - Revisited

 

This is true Kerouac. Wouldn't it be great to hear Jack read this book.I

read or heard somewhere that he thought this was his best book. Does anyone

else have opinions about that? My 14 year old son was talking about food one

day and I had him read that very passage where he talks about Hectors deli

and he was smiling all the way through it. Phil

 

At 11:42 AM 5/7/96 EST, you wrote:

>    I've finally gotten around to reading Kerouac's "Visions of Cody"...

It's my

>first time tackling this book (although not the first Kerouac book I've read)

>and I am simply amazed at the amount of detail contained within... For example,

>the book opens with a description of a diner and everything in it:

>

>"Grill is ancient and dark and emits an odor which is really succulent,

like you

>would expect from the black hide of an old ham or an old pastrami beef -- The

>lunchcart has stools with smooth slickwood tops -- there are wooden drawers for

>where you find the long loaves of sandwich bread. The countermen: either Greeks

>or have big red drink noses." (p.3)

>

>Incredible stuff. I often find myself going over certain passages again in an

>attempt to absorb all the details... Another thing that blows me away about

this

>book, is the sense of history Kerouac gives to the simplest descriptions....

>

>"...Cody imagined Watson slept like the little boys in fleecy nightgowns in

>mattress advertisements of the Saturday Evening Post, which he realized now he

>was confusing with a rubber tire ad that shows a little boy wandering out

of bed

>with a candle on New Year's Eve but expresses the same tender comfort of angels

>and vision of American children (ah poor Cody who'd seen this vision in those

>soaked magazines that have been dried by the sun and stand on tattered edges

>among weeds and cundrums of backlots)," (p. 62)

>

>I think the power of Kerouac's prose is his ability to create such a vivid

>picture of what he's talking about/describing in your mind... like a little

>movie that only you can imagine... I've only read about 90 or so pages and it

>find it to be a captivating read. wow.

>

>bfn,

>JDL

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 7 May 1996 16:10:34 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Jonathan Kratter <jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US>

Subject:      Re: Salinger

In-Reply-To:  <960507.101447.EDT.PRM95003@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>

 

oh oh oh!  Teacher, teacher, call on me, teacher!  No, actually, we were

discussing this in english today, and everyone called the Beats

beatniks...that bugs me, ya know?  It just seems so degrading to Jack and

Allen and Neal and others...anyways...Salinger's relationship to the

Beats, I think, is really strong in "Catcher in the Rye" with Holden

Caulfield's exasperation with materialism and J.D. Salinger's simulated

spontaneous prose and the entire attitude of the book, that is, how

someone actually thinks and talks...

 

 

jonathan

 

-------------

Jonathan Kratter

jonkrat@nueva.pvt.k12.ca.us

 

        "What kind of sordid business are you on now?  I mean, man,

        whither goest thou?  Whither goest thou, America, in thy shiny car in

        the night?"

 

        -On the Road, Jack Kerouac

 

On Tue, 7 May 1996, Peter R. McGahey wrote:

 

> Someone mentioned Salinger - what does everyone think of him in relation

> to the Beats?  They were contemporaries, but Salinger did what Jack may have

> wanted to do, get away from the screaming fans.  I think that Salinger's

> explorations of Buddhism, particularly in his good works (Franny & Zooey,

> Raise High . . .) would put him in some connection even though it is rather

> tenuous.  Why was Buddhism such a rave thing then?  Eliot et al were into

> Hindu etc because the Bagavad Gita (mis-spelled, I know) was recently

> translated.

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 7 May 1996 18:12:47 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         "J.D. P. Lafrance" <J.D._P._Lafrance@RIDLEY.ON.CA>

Organization: Ridley College

Subject:      Re: Visions of Cody - Revisited

 

Timothy Gallaher <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>,Internet writes:

 

Also I am wondering if anyone has any info as to what was included in the

initial 1960 new Directions abridged version of Visions of Cody?  Did they

include the new york scenes part of the book but leave out the more far-out

parts such as the Imitation of the Tape section?  If so it reminds me of

the initial offer made to Kerouac concerning Dr. Sax where the potential

publisher (Wyn?) suggested the fantastic parts of Sax be removed to leave a

narrative of boyhood.

 

 

 

Yeah, I've heard of Kerouac's sketching technique.. didn't he first use it on

"October in the Railroad Earth"? Not sure... Hmm.. the copy of "Visions of Cody"

that I have (a very recent version) has a great article in the back written by

Allen Ginsberg called "Visions of the Great Rememberer," where he annotates much

of the book... I've been reading some of them as I come across them.. he makes

some very interesting observations...

 

bfn,

JDL

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 7 May 1996 18:16:27 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         "J.D. P. Lafrance" <J.D._P._Lafrance@RIDLEY.ON.CA>

Organization: Ridley College

Subject:      Re: Visions of Cody - Revisited

 

Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>,Internet writes:

This is true Kerouac. Wouldn't it be great to hear Jack read this book.I

read or heard somewhere that he thought this was his best book. Does anyone

else have opinions about that? My 14 year old son was talking about food one

day and I had him read that very passage where he talks about Hectors deli

and he was smiling all the way through it. Phil

 

 

 

I agree with you that it would be great to hear Kerouac read this book and in

fact, in the Jack Kerouac collection of his spoken word stuff there is some

passages from "Visions of Cody" that he recorded... well, there's the most

famous bit that he did on the Steve Allen Show where he mixed "Cody" with "On

the Road" but there are also some bits he did called, "Visions of Neal: Neal and

the Three Stooges" which, I believe, are from "Visions of Cody," but I can't be

sure.. I'd have to check the booklet again...

 

bfn,

JDL

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 7 May 1996 21:37:11 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         George Morrone <gmorrone@PROLOG.NET>

Subject:      Beatnik, Sputnik & F. Scott Fitzgerald

 

>From: Jonathan Kratter <jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US> wrote:

 

>

>oh oh oh!  Teacher, teacher, call on me, teacher!  No, actually, we were

>discussing this in english today, and everyone called the Beats

>beatniks...that bugs me, ya know?

 

The columnist (I think it was Herb Caen of the San Francisco examiner)

coined the phrase "beatnik" as a put-down, to imply leftist, "pink," or

communist tendencies. (I suppose based on "sputnik.") It was during the

Cold War at it's worst. By the way, was Kerouac ever interviewed by Ben

Hecht? Not remembered today, Hecht was a famous reporter and screenwriter,

and Kerouac was drunk for the interview. I thought I read the incident in

Hecht's memoir, "Child of the Century," but couldn't locate it in the book

later on.

 

By the way, anyone care to discuss parallels between Kerouac and F. Scott

Fitzgerald? They had similar styles, and "This Side of Paradise" reminded

me of Kerouac's writing. They had much else in common, too: Catholicism,

alcoholism, early death. Both also made frequent allusions to death and the

supernatural, associating sex and death. Why does the word "mournful" occur

so frequently in Jack's writing? What function does it serve? Not that I

expect definitive answers; but I'd like help in framing the questions

better.

 

gmorrone@prolog.net (George Morrone)

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 7 May 1996 21:48:20 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         "bs@UBC" <sbent@UNIXG.UBC.CA>

Subject:      Salinger

In-Reply-To:  <960507.101447.EDT.PRM95003@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>

 

On Tue, 7 May 1996, Peter R. McGahey wrote:

 

> Someone mentioned Salinger - what does everyone think of him in relation

> to the Beats?  They were contemporaries, but Salinger did what Jack may have

> wanted to do, get away from the screaming fans.  I think that Salinger's

> explorations of Buddhism, particularly in his good works (Franny & Zooey,

> Raise High . . .) would put him in some connection even though it is rather

> tenuous.  Why was Buddhism such a rave thing then?  Eliot et al were into

> Hindu etc because the Bagavad Gita (mis-spelled, I know) was recently

> translated.

 

Among critics, esp. in the late fifties the Salinger/Kerouac comparison

was a commonplace. See f.ex. Leslie Fiedler's essay "The Eye of

Innocence", which is mostly a discussion of Twain and Salinger's

figuration of the child, but which brings in Kerouac as a negative

comparison in the discussion of what Fiedler calls the Good Bad Boy.

Here's some of it:

 

"In Catcher in the Rye, Holden comes to the dead end of ineffectual revolt

in a breakdown out of which he is impelled to fight his way by the Good

Good Girl, in the guise of the Pure Little Sister, from whose hands he

passes directly into the hands of psychiatrist. In On the Road, whose

characters heal themselves as they go by play-therapy, the inevitable

adjustment to society is only promised, not delivered; we must wait for

the next installment to tell how the Square Hipster makes good by acting

out his role (with jazz accompaniment) in a New York night club, or even,

perhaps, how he has sold his confessions of a Bad Boy to the movies.

[...]

To be sure it is Zen Buddhism rather than Unitarianism or neo-Orthodoxy

which attracts the Square Hipster and New Yorker contributor alike,

binding together as improbable co-religionists Salinger and Kerouac;

indeed, if James Dean had not yet discovered this particular kick before

he smashed up in a sports car, it is because he died just a little too

soon. Past the bongo drums and the fiddling around with sculpture it was

waiting for him, the outsider's religion in a day when there is room

inside for the outsider himself, provided he, too, goes "to the church of

his choice""

 

Another critic, Dan Wakefield, was even more vicious in his comparison:

 

"Moral senility can come at any age, or need not come at all, and we have

recently borne painful witness through the howls of the writers of the

"Beat Generation" that moral senility can afflict quite young men and

women. This group dismisses the search of Salinger on the grounds that he

is "slick" (he writes for The New Yorker, and as any sensitive person can

tell, it is printed on a slick type of paper). But now that the roar from

the motorcycles of Jack Kerouac's imagination has begun to subside, we

find that the highly advertised search of the Beat has ended, at least

literarily, not with love but with heroin. The appropriate nature of the

symbol can be seen in the fact that the physiological experience of

heroin is one of negation (it is the ultimate tranquilizer), releasing

the user during the duration of his "high" from the drive for sex, for

love and for answers. Fortunately for the rest of us, the characters in

Salinger's fiction have found no such simple formula as a "fix" for

relief from their troubles.

Sixteen-year-old Holden Caulfield was (just like Jack Kerouac) sickened

by the material values and the inhumanity of the world around him. That

sickness, however, marked the beginning and not the end of the search of

Salinger's characters to find an order of morality and a possibility of

love within the world." (From "The Search For Love")

 

Let us not forget that Salinger himself has commented on the Beats in one

of his stories, "Seymour: An Introduction", albeit through the words of

his narrator character, Buddy Glass. Critics have discussed at length how

closely Salinger identified himself with this narrator - he certainly

gave him some of his own biography. Here is the quote (Buddy is talking

to his imagined reader):

 

"In this entre-nous spirit, then, old confidant, before we join the

others, the grounded everywhere, including, I'm sure, the middle-aged

hot-rodders who insist on zooming us to the moon, the Dharma Bums, the

makers of cigarette filters for thinking men, the Beat and the Sloppy and

the Petulant, the chosen cultists, all the lofty experts who know so well

what we should or shouldn't do with our poor little sex organs, all the

bearded, proud, unlettered young men and unskilled guitarists and

Zen-killers and incorporated aethetic Teddy boys who look down their

thoroughly unenlightened noses at this splendid planet where (please

don't shut me up) Kilroy, Christ, and Shakespeare all stopped - before we

join these others, I privately say to you, old friend (unto you, really,

I'm afraid), please accept from me this unpretentious bouquet of very

early-blooming parentheses: (((())))." (p. 97-98 Little & Brown ed.)

 

That, I believe, is what is nowadays called a rant, and a damn fine one, too

- though of course elitist and borderline psychotic....

 

Regards,

 

Bent Sorensen

Visiting Grad. Student, Dept. of English, UBC

Ph.D. Student, Aalborg University, Denmark

<http://hum.auc.dk/i12/org/medarb/bent.uk.html>

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 7 May 1996 22:19:46 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Bent Sorensen <sbent@UNIXG.UBC.CA>

Subject:      Robert Hunter and Kerouac

 

Thanks to a tip off Levi's Beat News page I checked Grateful Dead

lyricist, Robert Hunter's homepage. Among lots of amazing stuff I found

this piece with direct Beat relevance. I hope you enjoy it and that

Robert doesn't mind my lifting it. Check out the rest of at the URL

following this:

 

http://grateful.dead.net/RobertHunterArchive.html/files/journal/6journal_

4.30.96.html

 

> Journal 4/24 - 4/30 1996

>

> 4/24

>

> Got a call from the Kerouac estate today about me doing a two hour

> taping of selections from 'Visions of Cody.' Did a short reading for

> a tape that will be released along with a lot of other readers

> including Allen Ginsberg, Hunter Thompson, Wm.Burroughs, Patti

> Smith, Jim Carroll, and, yes, Johnny Depp. Many others I don't have

> on the tip of my mind right now. I'll add 'em when my memory is

> refreshed.

>

> Reason they want me is, I got the Cassady roll down. I know how he'd

> say things. He lived with a bunch of us at the Waverley Street house

> in Palo Alto for awhile, during the Acid Test days, and I spent a

> good amount of time being talked at by the old boy. Reckon I could

> do it good as anyone, better'n most. Harumph. Yas.

>

> The first tape I mentioned was an interesting trip. I looked and

> looked for something to read and couldn't settle on anything. So

> what I did was, I woke up the next morning with a good idea. I

> hopped out of bed, grabbed 'Visions of Cody' and a portable DAT

> machine, got in my car and drove down to the parking lot of Amazing

> Grace Music, which is situated in an island between two busy lanes

> of traffic. I opened all the windows, put a tape I have of Jack

> singing "Foggy London Town" in be-bop scat on the car's tape

> machine, and read a random section of "Visions" with stereo traffic

> whizzing by. Some angel honked right at the end. I didn't even

> bother to check to see if I had a good take. If the spirits of Jack

> and Neal weren't with me during those few minutes, there's no

> meaning to such a statement. I could about hear both of them

> laughing and it was a golden feeling.

>

> It isn't for sure I get to do it. They check with Viking for

> approval tomorrow. I said "If they want me to do it fine. If they

> don't, no problem. I'm a busy man."

>

> 4/25

>

> Just heard from Jim Sampas of the Kerouac estate again. He'd

> proposed me to Viking/Penguin this morning, but it seems they, in

> their infinite wisdom, have decided to go with Graham Parker. They

> feel Cassady with an english accent would be interesting, besides

> they've already put out promo on it. They offered me "Book of Blues"

> to record instead. Sure, I'll do it, though I don't have the JFK

> accent Kerouac had. Maybe I should put out my own recording of

> "Visions" audio on the net. 45 megabyte download anyone?

 

Regards,

 

Bent Sorensen

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 8 May 1996 07:59:38 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         SPOTS OF TIME <breithau@KENYON.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Visions of Cody - Revisited

 

If I remember correctly, there is a more complete recording of Jack reading

from Visions of Cody in Allen Ginsberg's archives (on a reel-to-reel tape) but

as far as I know, has never been made available commercially.

 

Dave B.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 8 May 1996 08:35:18 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         "P.G. Springer" <hloosn8@PRAIRIENET.ORG>

Subject:      Re: Beatnik, Sputnik & F. Scott Fitzgerald

In-Reply-To:  <v01510101adb5b548ab7e@[204.186.21.51]>

 

On Tue, 7 May 1996, George Morrone wrote:

 

> Cold War at it's worst. By the way, was Kerouac ever interviewed by Ben

> Hecht? Not remembered today, Hecht was a famous reporter and screenwriter,

> and Kerouac was drunk for the interview. I thought I read the incident in

 

The audio recording of the interview is on a CD compilation "The Beat

Generation"

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 8 May 1996 09:34:58 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: Beatnik, Sputnik & F. Scott Fitzgerald

In-Reply-To:  Message of Tue, 7 May 1996 21:37:11 -0500 from

              <gmorrone@PROLOG.NET>

 

Yea, there are lots of obvious comparisons between Fitz and Kerouac.  The use o

f the narrator in OTR & Gatsby and their treatments of the American Dream are t

wo major similarities.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 8 May 1996 09:44:05 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: Salinger

In-Reply-To:  Message of Tue, 7 May 1996 21:48:20 -0700 from

              <sbent@UNIXG.UBC.CA>

 

Thanks, Bent for those interesting excerpts.  There's also a book by

Robert Hipkiss -- Jack Kerouac: Prophet of the New Romanticism --  which

makes comparisons to Salinger and others.  It's not very good in my

opinion but it might be worth a look anyway.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 8 May 1996 09:49:02 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: Robert Hunter and Kerouac

In-Reply-To:  Message of Tue, 7 May 1996 22:19:46 -0700 from

              <sbent@UNIXG.UBC.CA>

 

If Robert Hunter is listening, I'd sure like to hear that tape.  If you

make that cd, they will buy it!

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 8 May 1996 11:06:26 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         "Peter R. McGahey" <PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>

Subject:      Fitzgerald and Kerouac

 

Aside from the standard Lost Generation - Beat Generation connections,

I think it is rather facinating that so many assume that Kerouac's entire

canon is a big drug fest just like they assume all of Fitzgerald's canon is

one big alcoholic party.  By reading "Babylon revisted" one can see the

obvious error in this image of Fitzgerald and I think we all know that

Kerouac's canon goes much deeper than the beatnik image.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 8 May 1996 09:21:20 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>

Subject:      Re: Beatnik, Sputnik & F. Scott Fitzgerald

In-Reply-To:  <v01510101adb5b548ab7e@[204.186.21.51]> from "George Morrone" at

              May 7, 96 09:37:11 pm

 

> By the way, anyone care to discuss parallels between Kerouac and F. Scott

> Fitzgerald? They had similar styles, and "This Side of Paradise" reminded



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