=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 May 1997 02:42:02 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject:      New Q's for Nicosia

 

Gerry,

 

Despite what anyone may say about you elaborating on your own position in all

these posts, I for one, am glad to be able to hear about so many fascinating

aspects to JK and his legacy that I believe you're in a unique position to

comment on.  A few questions that spring to mind:

 

1).  Why did the Sampas family do little with the estate from 1973 (when

Memere died) to 1990 (when Stella died).  Was it because as I think you said

in Memory Babe and maybe others have said too Stella hated Jack's "dirty

writings" and even threatened to burn them?  Was it because there was no real

market for the material before the early 90's or did the various releases

trigger the market?  I'm assuming many in the Sampas family were helpful when

you were researching Memory Babe in the late 70's/early 80's.

 

2).  You mentioned JK's executor was Citizen's National Bank of St. Pete.

 Are they still in the picture somehow today or is that all ancient history?

 

3).  Why do you believe Allen Ginsberg sat on the fence on this whole estate

issue?  I understand he didn't support Jan, but I never heard he denounced

her claims either.

 

 

Jerry Cimino

Fog City

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 May 1997 03:50:48 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Dale F. Smith" <dale@PCANYTHING.COM>

Subject:      Re: more on dope

 

<<<Individual freedom is not marked by the absence of constraints. Freedom

comes from the soul, through exercising the heart and mind, and for those that

have attained it, no prison can hold them.

                                          Kleb>>>

 

yessa yessa yessa!

 

 

Dale F. Smith

dale@pcanything.com

 

The darkness drops again; but now I know

That twenty centuries of stony sleep

Were vexed to nightmere by a rocking cradle,

And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,

Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

 

---W.B. Yeats

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 May 1997 08:34:00 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: New Q's for Nicosia

 

At 02:42 AM 5/3/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Gerry,

>

>Despite what anyone may say about you elaborating on your own position in all

>these posts, I for one, am glad to be able to hear about so many fascinating

>aspects to JK and his legacy that I believe you're in a unique position to

>comment on.  A few questions that spring to mind:

>

>1).  Why did the Sampas family do little with the estate from 1973 (when

>Memere died) to 1990 (when Stella died).  Was it because as I think you said

>in Memory Babe and maybe others have said too Stella hated Jack's "dirty

>writings" and even threatened to burn them?  Was it because there was no real

>market for the material before the early 90's or did the various releases

>trigger the market?  I'm assuming many in the Sampas family were helpful when

>you were researching Memory Babe in the late 70's/early 80's.

>

>2).  You mentioned JK's executor was Citizen's National Bank of St. Pete.

> Are they still in the picture somehow today or is that all ancient history?

>

>3).  Why do you believe Allen Ginsberg sat on the fence on this whole estate

>issue?  I understand he didn't support Jan, but I never heard he denounced

>her claims either.

>

>

>Jerry Cimino

>Fog City

>Hi all! To be exact. Allen Ginsberg told a number of us in Lowell that in

his discussions with Stella, he asked about the unreleased works. She

quoted, " I wanted to wait until the right time when Jack would be

appreciated. I did not want the books to merely fade into obscurity." I

think we can look forward to numerous releases in the next few years. Among

them...the publication of Jack's notebooks. Good Day All!  Paul of The

Kerouac Quarterly.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 May 1997 08:03:37 -0500

Reply-To:     race@midusa.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Looking For Jack: grocery and other haunts

 

PAM wrote:

>

> >Hi Dave! You can recieve a copy for $5.00. Try submitting your poem for

> publication if you want. You may send both (or one or the other) to:

> The Kerouac Quarterly

> 34 North Rd. #7

> Chelmsford, MA. 01824    Thanks, Paul...

 

so i'm thinkin' about submitting the grocery poem to KQ.  could people

more versed in verse be so kind as to send me some suggestions for

editing and revisions.  please be brutal.

 

then i'll work it a bit massage it here and there and there and here

and then figure out a way to get my printer running so that i can print

it and send it earthmail.

 

i appreciate ideas from anyone out there.  we're all born critics - just

some are born nice and polite too :)

 

david rhaesa

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 May 1997 11:37:33 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: Jake Barnes is beat (was "More on dope")

In-Reply-To:  Message of Fri, 2 May 1997 15:37:45 CDT from

              <wlundburg@MAIL.FF.CC.MN.US>

 

On Fri, 2 May 1997 15:37:45 CDT Wes Lundburg said:

>Someone wrote:

>

>>

>>Isn't it pretty to think so!

>>

>

>Thanks, Jake Barnes.  If it's alcohol, surely Lady Brett would think so....

>

>Now, speaking of Jake Barnes, I would say he IS beat.  In fact, I think the

>post-war disillusioned crowd (the lost generation) is the precursor for the

>beats.  They, too, were fed up with life and the illusion of "how things are"

>and its failure to match up to the dream we all live for.  The difference is

>that the lost generation didn't see--couldn't see, perhaps--that there was

>something to reach for, as I think the beats did see.  The lost generation was

>disillusioned, and that's it.  The beats were disillusioned, but wouldn't let

>go

>of the desire to find something better.

>

>---Wes

 

 Agreed.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 May 1997 12:49:58 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         William Morgan <Ferlingh2@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Attila's questions, final chapter

 

To readers of the list:

In one of Gerald Nicosia's posts he noted that:

"If Sampas is presently negotiating with a

library, why can't he tell us?  Ginsberg let it be known a year in advance

that he was negotiating with Stanford, and it did not hurt his negotiations."

 Just wanted to set the record straight, this is not true.  Negotiations with

Stanford took less than a month, and until the agreement was reached no one

knew (nor was it anyone's business to know) that any negotiations were

underway.

Allen's legacy should be remembered in his oft-quoted saying "Candor prevents

paranoia".

Bill Morgan

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 May 1997 13:13:32 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Ginsy's position on "the squabble"

 

Bill Morgan,

 

I really like that line a lot... "Candor prevents paranoia".

 

You too are in a unique position to elaborate on Allen's thoughts regarding

the "Estate Controversy".  Could you also answer the same question I just

posed to Gerry Nicosia - what were Allen's thoughts on the matter?

 

Jerry Cimino

Fog City

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 May 1997 10:14:18 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Attila's Questions, Final Chapter

 

Dear Bill Morgan:

        OK, I'm curious about the Stanford thing, because I remember

Ginsberg talking to me at least twice about the Stanford negotiations, and

as far as I remember, both times were before the archive actually landed at

Stanford.  Do you have a date for when the the actual document transferring

ownership of Ginsberg's archive was signed?  I have an exact date for at

least one of my meetings with Allen when we talked about this, because at

that meeting, witnessed by two other Kerouac scholars, Allen signed and

dated posters for us.

        I'm not doubting you, I may well be wrong (i.e., he may already have

sold the archive secretly before he talked to me), but if you give me a

date, I'll know for sure.

        Thanks for helping to get this point straight.

        Best, Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 May 1997 14:22:50 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: Attila's Questions, Final Chapter

 

I only have one thing that puzzles me...if there was never anything

deposited at the New York Public Library...how come when they had a show

highlighting rare manuscripts they owned, a significant amount of it was

Kerouac's? I have a catalog of the show in front of me right now and it does

not appear to me that nothing is in there. When I have time I will type up

what is on the list....one of those is a novel Jack wrote called "Bnzedrine

Vision"Or all of the notebooks to Mexico City Blues, drawings, letters, a

couple of sonnets, and other things. Remember, these are highlights of

material owned by the NYC Public Library, not everything. The name of the

show was The Hand of the Poet held from August 16th, 1996 - February 15,

1997. This is something no one has commented on but can be found out with

minimal research. Thanks, paul...

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 May 1997 11:49:03 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Attila's Questions, Final Chapter

 

Response to Paul Maher's question:

        What is all that Kerouac stuff doing in the New York Public Library?

        The NYPL has been building a Beat/Kerouac collection since the 60's.

It is indeed one of the best in the country.  One of their early

acquisitions was the manuscript of SATORI IN PARIS, which supposedly Fred

Jordan had simply held on to after Grove published the book.  They have been

buying up Kerouac/Beat stuff whenever and wherever they can find it--IF THEY

CAN AFFORD IT.  They reputedly bought a large collection of stuff from Ann

Charters last year for a quarter million bucks.

        Both MEX CITY BLUES notebooks and BOOK OF DREAMS manuscripts are in

the NYPL.  However, according to Jeffrey Weinberg, both were sold to PRIVATE

COLLECTORS, and later resold to the NYPL.  There is even a polaroid of the

BOOK OF DREAMS notebook being sold to the private collector.  Also, by the

way, Jack typed several versions of MEX CITY BLUES, and I don't think the

library has all those typed drafts--though I welcome Rodney Phillips (the

acquisition librarian) or anyone else at the NYPL to comment on this.

        Jan and I asked Rodney Phillips if he had ever BOUGHT ANY KEROUAC

MATERIAL DIRECTLY FROM SAMPAS.  My recollection is that he said no, though

there may have been a few things (letters of Jack to Stella?) that Sampas

did sell to the library.  We asked why he hadn't bought the manuscripts,

other notebooks, etc., and he said the prices Sampas was asking were too

high.  He did say that Sampas had DONATED A BUNCH OF XEROXES OF KEROUAC

LETTERS to the library.

        Sampas also allowed the NYPL to SHOW THE ON THE ROAD MANUSCRIPT,

without selling it to them.

        The NYPL would of course love to buy the entire Kerouac archive, but

the most they could pay for it is one million dollars (for everything,

thousands of different pieces).  Sampas has declined to sell it to them at

that price (apparently not enough).

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 May 1997 15:22:26 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: Attila's Questions, Final Chapter

 

Yes...but isn't it fit to ponder that the dealer in question may be

representing the estate? I couldn't see the estate directly peddling this

important material to libraries without a middle man....

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 May 1997 12:19:07 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      New Q's for Nicosia

 

To answer Jerry Cimino's questions:

 

        (By the way, I realize I haven't answered everybody's questions in

the order they came in, and I still have a long backlog to answer, but I

have been trying to answer the most "urgent" questions first--urgent in

terms of the Albuquerque court case and also those that relate to the need

to get Kerouac's papers into a library NOW.)

 

        As for me elaborating my position, well, as Thoreau might say, I

know my own side better than anyone else.

        But I keep saying, I'd like others to correct me where I'm wrong or

my memory has faltered.  (The past few years have been awfully busy, trying

to finish my own 1600 page Vietnam veteran book, raising a family, helping

Jan Kerouac.  There are plenty of times when I make honest mistakes or

misremember things.)

        I also keep saying, I'd like John Sampas, or one of his close

associates, to come forward here to represent HIS side of affairs.  Isn't

that what the internet is all about?  Open discussion, the equivalent of

"conversation on a street corner," the most recent court decision called it.

Nobody's going to get hurt here, we all want to find out the truth about

these matters--at least those of us who care about the future of scholarly

study in the Beat and Kerouac fields.  I have no desire to perform a

monologue on this subject.

        You ask why the Sampas family did almost nothing with Kerouac's

estate from 1973 (the death of Memere) to 1990 (the death of Stella).

Stella was in control--at least nominally--during those years.  The word in

Lowell, especially from her brothers, was that she sought to "protect Jack"

from all the dirty things biographers wanted to write about him.  At that

point, Charters' biography was the only one out, and the word was that

Stella hated it, felt it slandered Jack and his family.  One reason the

Sampases cooperated with me so much at that time was because they wanted to

bury Charters' biography.  Now, ironically, the situation is reversed, and

they have annointed Ann Charters as their spokesperson mainly to get rid of

me and MEMORY BABE.

        Yes, there was word at the "inner circle" in Nicky's Bar that Stella

contemplated burning all Jack's papers, rather than let any scholars or

biographers (the people she hated most) see them.*

        (*As a historical footnote, the "inner circle" at Nicky's was an

actual round table far in the back, at which sat, at different times, Tony

Sampas, Nick Sampas, Billy Koumantzelis, Joe Chaput, Pancho Gonzales, a

famous Brinks robber who was Tony's friend, Chiefy Nobriga, a bartender who

went way way back with Tony, and myself, thanks to Tony's accepting me into

the circle.**)

        (**Second historical footnote.  Tony Sampas helped me hugely with my

biography, took me upstairs in Nicky's to show me drawers full of Kerouac

notebooks and manuscripts, played private Kerouac tapes for me, etc.  And

despite all this bickering with the "Sampas family," which mainly has to do

with John Sampas's opposition to me and my book, Tony and I have never

fallen out.  In fact, a couple of years ago in Lowell, I saw Tony in a bar,

and I walked over to his table.  I said, "Tony, nobody in your family will

talk to me any more.  Are YOU still talking to me?"  He said, "Of course, I

never stopped talking to you."  And we sat down and caught up on a lot of

years.)

        To some extent, John Sampas and other members of Stella's family

have kept up her campaign to "protect Jack's memory."  I received complaints

from some of them that my biography made Jack look like 1) a homosexual 2) a

drunk 3) a man who was rude to women; and 4) that I made people think Jack

wanted to divorce Stella--all of which they deny is true.  From 300

interviews, and 20 years of scholarship, I still conclude that 1) Jack was a

practicing bisexual 2) he was a drunk and died from alcohol; 3) he could be

very rude to women or anyone else when drunk; and 4) he absolutely wanted to

divorce Stella.

        Recently I heard from Steve Turner that John Sampas had hassled him

over his book ANGELHEADED HIPSTER, and that he had wanted Turner to remove

passages referring to Jack's alcoholism and bisexuality.

        In 1983, when I was invited (because of MEMORY BABE) to speak at a

big convention of the National Society of Arts & Letters in Clearwater

Beach, Florida, I drove over to St. Pete, with my mother (to seem less

threatening) and knocked on Stella's door.  I wanted to tell her that,

indeed, my book had brought honor, not disgrace, to Jack, and to invite her

to attend my keynote speech on Kerouac at the NSAL dinner in Clearwater that

evening.

        Stella slammed the door in my face.  Then her sister reopened the

door and apologized that Stella hadn't been well.

        Nowadays I think there may be one more plausible explanation.  If

Gabe's will WAS forged, and IF STELLA KNEW IT, she may have wanted to keep

as far from biographers and the press as possible, to keep that crime hidden.

        After Gabe's death, Citizen's National Bank of St. Pete went out of

the picture, and Stella became the executor for the Estate of Gabrielle

Kerouac.  Then John Sampas became the executor for the Estate of Stella

Sampas Kerouac.  I mention this only because, when John Sampas calls himself

Jack Kerouac's literary executor, there is an implication that Jack picked

him for this job.

        I have never fully understood Allen's refusal to help Jan, which

wounded Jan deeply.  I wish Bill Morgan could shed some light on this.  I

have often speculated that it had to do with Ann Charters assuring Allen

(and he trusted her) that the Sampases were taking great care of Jack's

stuff.  Of course Ann Charters was well compensated for promoting the

Sampases' position.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 May 1997 15:51:40 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Ginny Browne <NICO88@AOL.COM>

Subject:      digests

 

question- how does one get off the digest mode?

   SET BEAT-L NORMAL....?

   SET BEAT-L NONDIGEST....?

 

     ?

being severely technologically challenged, i cant seem to open any of the

downloaded digestlists and such, ere go, i may as well go back to the regular

mode of listserv reception. just need to figure out how, first.  thanks.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 May 1997 16:00:43 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Ginny Browne <NICO88@AOL.COM>

Subject:      oops

 

should have sent that one to "listserv" not BEAT-L.

 sorry bout that.....

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 May 1997 15:17:57 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: May Day Blues-May Day Reds

In-Reply-To:  <3368C2A5.2435@midusa.net>

 

>i've been checking my door, mailbox and e-mail (even my bathroom window)

>every ten seconds or so since three this morning hoping to catch a

>maybasket.

>

>hope y'all get maybaskets.

>

>this can be an imaginary cyber-basket on May Day.  include what ever you

>like in yours.

>

>david rhaesa

>

>haven't got the old may Pole out yet.  i think it's rusty.

 

dr,

In Chicago for May Day. Great May Day feast and celebration with friends.

Returned to Madison to find a May Basket--my first in years. In the basket

a copy of the Progressive Oklahoman, odds and ends of clippings regarding

Socialism, an invitation to the Haymarket Tour May 11 and some red jelly

beans. That basket and your post has me marking my calender. Next year I'm

going to hang baskets--introduce the kids in the neighborhood to the

original, US, worker's holiday.

 

Reminds me of a conversation with Meridel LeSueur years ago. She was down

in Mexico. Had stopped in a little town (she'd forgotten the name) Was

sitting on the edge of the fountain in the center of the town square and

noticed that the names of the Haymarket Square vistims were enlaid on the

stone work arounf the foundation of the structure.

 

As a kid on a north country farm (Mnesota) the hanging of baskets on May

Day was much more popular that trick 'n treating on Halloween.

 

Thanks for the cyber-basket. Real treat. I'll roll a cyber-number and kick

back.

 

jo

 

                BE ON THE WATCH

for items stolen from the Keroauc Collection

        O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell

http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html

 

Academic & Small Press Authors & publishers

                display books free at

           <http://www.bookzen.com>

     302,443  visitors since July 1, 1996

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 May 1997 15:28:57 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Dylan-Plymell

In-Reply-To:  <199705011632.JAA29644@iceland.it.earthlink.net>

 

>Charlie Plymell, I love your reminiscences, and wonder when (or if you have

>already) written a book of them.  But here's a slight correction.  I may be

>mistaken, but I could swear Al Aronowitz told me he'd introduced Dylan to

>Ginsberg in 1961-1962.  (Aronowitz was the guy who did the great 1959 NY

>POST series on the Beats, and later was their rock pop columnist in the

>Sixties, the guy who introduced Dylan to the Beatles and gave the Beatles

>their first hit of marijuana, etc.)  We could all find out if somebody

>emailed Al, who's considered himself the Blacklisted Journalist for the last

>two decades, at blackj@bigmagic.com.

>        Best, Gerry Nicosia

 

Read some of the great material Al Aronowitz wrote at:

http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/

and hope this material can end up in a book someday.

 

j grant

 

 

                BE ON THE WATCH

for items stolen from the Keroauc Collection

        O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell

http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html

 

Academic & Small Press Authors & publishers

                display books free at

           <http://www.bookzen.com>

     302,443  visitors since July 1, 1996

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 May 1997 17:43:05 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Subject:      Re: censored Kerouac letters

In-Reply-To:  <199705030347.UAA15498@denmark.it.earthlink.net>

 

On Fri, 2 May 1997, Gerald Nicosia wrote:

 

>         Mr. Sampas dominates every aspect of Jack Kerouac scholarship today.

> He dictated to Ann Charters what Kerouac letters could be published, and

> which ones couldn't, and which parts had to be censored.

 

What's this?

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 May 1997 20:06:57 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject:      Re: Attila's Questions, Final Chapter

 

At 11:49 AM 5/3/97 -0700, you wrote:

>Response to Paul Maher's question:

>        What is all that Kerouac stuff doing in the New York Public Library?

>        The NYPL has been building a Beat/Kerouac collection since the 60's.

>It is indeed one of the best in the country.  One of their early

>acquisitions was the manuscript of SATORI IN PARIS, which supposedly Fred

>Jordan had simply held on to after Grove published the book.  They have been

>buying up Kerouac/Beat stuff whenever and wherever they can find it--IF THEY

>CAN AFFORD IT.  They reputedly bought a large collection of stuff from Ann

>Charters last year for a quarter million bucks.

>        Both MEX CITY BLUES notebooks and BOOK OF DREAMS manuscripts are in

>the NYPL.  However, according to Jeffrey Weinberg, both were sold to PRIVATE

>COLLECTORS, and later resold to the NYPL.  There is even a polaroid of the

>BOOK OF DREAMS notebook being sold to the private collector.  Also, by the

>way, Jack typed several versions of MEX CITY BLUES, and I don't think the

>library has all those typed drafts--though I welcome Rodney Phillips (the

>acquisition librarian) or anyone else at the NYPL to comment on this.

>        Jan and I asked Rodney Phillips if he had ever BOUGHT ANY KEROUAC

>MATERIAL DIRECTLY FROM SAMPAS.  My recollection is that he said no, though

>there may have been a few things (letters of Jack to Stella?) that Sampas

>did sell to the library.  We asked why he hadn't bought the manuscripts,

>other notebooks, etc., and he said the prices Sampas was asking were too

>high.  He did say that Sampas had DONATED A BUNCH OF XEROXES OF KEROUAC

>LETTERS to the library.

>        Sampas also allowed the NYPL to SHOW THE ON THE ROAD MANUSCRIPT,

>without selling it to them.

>        The NYPL would of course love to buy the entire Kerouac archive, but

>the most they could pay for it is one million dollars (for everything,

>thousands of different pieces).  Sampas has declined to sell it to them at

>that price (apparently not enough).

>

>Gerry, I just looked at an uncorrected proof of "Some of the Dharma" and on

one of the first pages it states that the manuscript/notebooks (maybe 8 of

them can't remember how many)for "Some of the Dharma" were placed in the

Berg collection of the New York Public Library in 1993 by John Sampas. What

do you have to say about that? If it's not true why would it be in the book?

 

By the way Gerry the folks at Lowell Celebrates Kerouac all work very hard

to promote Kerouac and you are doing a terrible disservice when you go and

try to put us down because in your mind we are all part of the Sampas

conspiracy theory. I can assure you that many of the decent folks that work

hard to put this festival on every year don't know or care about your

squabbles with the Sampas family. Ed Sanders the main feature at the

festival last year did do a nice little tribute to Jan Kerouac at the

festival. You know what his hotel bill was paid isn't that amazing? I'm not

sure but the probable reason you or Jan haven't been asked to speak is

because it's not "Lowell Celebrates Lawsuits" it's "Lowell Celebrates

Kerouac" and I'm quite sure that is what your agenda would be. It seems to

be your only one lately. We accept donations from anyone willing to give and

I haven't heard of any checks coming in from you ever. Maybe you  would like

it better if no one donated anything and we didn't promote Kerouac at all in

Lowell. It seems like that is what you want. Keep your beef with John

private and don't try to drag down people that truly want to do some good

and promote Kerouac. Phil Chaput

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 May 1997 20:55:43 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Gatt implications to intellectual property....

 

Nick,

 

        First of all, thanks for your sig file with its the regular reminder

of the proper approach to getting -  "don't let the bastards grind you down"

...lots better than my two Roman legionaire standbyes, "Nolo urinare contra

ventum." and "Semper ubi sub ubi."

 

        Reading about the confused situation regarding the Kerouac estate,

and now seeing the intricacies of copyright renewal and the potential for

misses, has been an odd mix of feeling disheartened together with a sense of

tension and suspense as each new twist is unveiled.

 

        The digitization idea of Michael Stutz is an excellent one and made

me wonder if there is much web access to digitized works of the size of the

Kerouac novels. The Gatt twist seems an incredibly important development in

the intellectual property area. What are the specific limitations to

applying this. Is it obscure enough that Gerald Nicosia or the Sampas family

would have missed the chance that it provided?  Gerald / Gerry?

 

        This seems to make it important to have/build an index of what the

copyright renewal options are on the whole body of Beat lierature even

though we're ten to twenty years past the critical time period for renewal.

Does the publishing industry maintain such a resource? Anyway,I hope that

you and the otehrs involved in publishing in all its froma will continue to

educate us.

 

        Thanks     Antoine

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

     "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"

                        -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 May 1997 20:55:48 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Cornix?

 

Michael,

 

        What's the Cornix web applet that you refer to?

 

>I heard there was absolutely no punctuation in the original OTR. I want to

>use the Cornix web applet (http://www.halcyon.com/chigh/corndemo.html) on

>said ASCII file of OTR to view it word-at-a-time on giant screens.

 

        On big screens?   Why?

 

                Antoine

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

     "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"

                        -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 May 1997 20:59:53 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Old memory

Comments: To: gnicosia@earthlink.net

 

The other eve. I read in the K battles that someone was called "piece of

trash" or something to that effect. Also  a while back someone asked me about

the bar scene after the Buckley show and said that was Allen's last meeting

with K and were they  arguing? My trashy memory is coming back: After getting

K disengaged from Capote we went to a trashy bar and occupied a large booth.

I was wedged beside two dorky guys who kept ordering beer and shots. I was

thinking to myself they must have been the only people K could have found to

drive him into the city. I don't like to sit in bars much but can if there is

interesting company. I sat mostly silent because I felt there was little to

talk about. Allen was having a serious conversation with K. but I didn't pay

much attention because it seem Allen was always having serious conversations

even when everyone else was drinking. K was drunk or drunker. It wasn't a

happy bar like setting, and now that I think of it, the atmosphere was

imposing. I sat on the oustide, so I could walk around frequently because I

felt I had nothing to say except small talk about driving to or from the

city. We stayed there for an hour or two. I remember now that Allen, always

the polite one, had earlier introduced these two guys, or at least one of

them as a relative of K's.

Can anyone help me discern historically the import of the evening?

Charles Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 May 1997 21:14:17 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Dylan-Plymell

Comments: To: blackj@bigmagic.com, gnicosia@earthlink.net

 

In a message dated 97-05-02 08:57:26 EDT, you write:

 

<< >

 > In a message dated 97-05-01 13:12:00 EDT, you write:

 >

 > << Charlie Plymell, I love your reminiscences, and wonder when (or if you

 > have

 >  already) written a book of them.  But here's a slight correction.  I may

be

 >  mistaken, but I could swear Al Aronowitz told me he'd introduced Dylan to

 >  Ginsberg in 1961-1962.  (Aronowitz was the guy who did the great 1959 NY

 >  POST series on the Beats, and later was their rock pop columnist in the

 >  Sixties, the guy who introduced Dylan to the Beatles and gave the Beatles

 >  their first hit of marijuana, etc.)  We could all find out if somebody

 >  emailed Al, who's considered himself the Blacklisted Journalist for the

last

 >  two decades, at blackj@bigmagic.com.

 >          Best, Gerry Nicosia

 >   >>

 > Gerry: You may  be correct. Al (whom I've recently been in touch

with...and

 > fwd'd this post) is credited with having introduced them. That seems early

 > for my recollection in the Fall of '63  when I played Dylan's "Blowing"

for

 > him. He either said or it was assumed by all present that he hadn't heard

it.

 > It may be that he hadn't heard that album, or it may be he was playing

mum,

 > or hadn't heard him sing? It's an interesting assertion and thanks for

 > calling my attention to it...makes me wonder? No, I'm not writing any more

 > memiors, just on the list.

 > C.Plymell

 

 don't understand.  Does Plymell claim that he intro'd Allen to BoB? Can

 I see his reminiscences? --Al

 --

 ***************************************

 Al Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST

 http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj >>

 

Al, Gerry, and Beat-L:

..er what claim did I make exactly? I'm sure that I played D's album to Allen

in 1963. By all accounts of those present and Karen Wright who brought the

album to Gough St. Allen hadn't heard it. I don't see anything in my post

that makes the claim that I introduced Allen to Bob which I didn't. I am

interested in the dates of Al's meeting and did Allen seem receptive to

Dylan's music at that time?

Charles Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 May 1997 21:54:44 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Ann Charters article on Estate Battle

 

The other day someone mentioned Ann Charters wrote an article giving "the

other sides" version of the estate battle.  Could someone summarize it so

those of us who haven't read it know what points she made.

 

Thanks

 

Jerry Cimino

Fog City

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 May 1997 22:11:00 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rod Anstee <Nastees@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: censored Kerouac letters

 

What this IS is another of Gerry's garbled, exaggerated, self-serving

paranoid delusions, based mostly upon his child-like "wish-thinking" view of

the world we inhabit.

As Gerry knows, there are problems with the editing of SELECTED LETTERS --

mistakes, undeclared cuts, and even questionable/debatable cuts in places --

but to extrapolate from that situation,  to this new fantasy of his that John

Sampas DICTATED precisely which letters were to be included in the book (and

which were to be left out?), and which parts of those letters were to be cut,

is utter nonsense. Gerry knows this, unless he has surrendered utterly to his

delusions, but -- Beat-List people! -- for the time being it serves Gerry's

purpose that you all accept HIS version of the truth, in this matter, and in

every other Estate matter discussed on the List this week. John Sampas is the

world's worst villain. Ann Charters is either his skilled, paid henchman, or

his willing stooge -- whichever version Gerry is peddling at a given moment.

Myself, I am also, it now seems, one of John's close allies -- this fiction

is posted by Gerry even though he has himself written, in several articles,

about exactly how it was that I ended up, permanently, on the unwritten

Sampas "Enemies List."

But our wee Gerry wears people down -- he exhausts them frankly. For myself,

at the end of a painful week, brevity, if not complete silence, seems the

best reponse. So, just one final thought.  I really liked Mark Hemenway's

notion, a while back, that nothing in this matter is what it might first seem

to you to be, and that the only way to sort things out is to do some research

on your own. Don't just listen to Gerry, don't just listen to ME, don't JUST

LISTEN to anybody! Ask questions. And be sceptical -- very sceptical -- of

the answers.

All for now. CHEERS, Rod A.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 May 1997 19:40:20 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: censored Kerouac letters

 

I'm certainly not an expert on this and am trying hard not to be.

Important as this matter is to serious K. scholars my reaction is "what

a dismal tiring mess Jack's estate was."  I tend to read the posts

quickly and delete quickly.  But two things keep bothering me.  I

remember when the whole business of Jan's claims kept coming up I was

waiting to hear from AG who I thought probably had something important

to say.  He never emerged as one of Jan's supporters, unlike people who

had little contact with Kerouac like Kesey and Co.  I hope someone, Bill

Morgan perhaps, can shed some light on this.   Ann Charters has not been

heard from in this list discussion.  It seems she would deserve to be

heard as a respectable Kerouac scholar also.  I think I agree with Rod

that big doses of scepticism are called for in regard to anybodies

claims in this affair.

 

James Stauffer

 

Rod Anstee wrote: . . .

 

 Don't just listen to Gerry, don't just listen to ME, don't JUST

> LISTEN to anybody! Ask questions. And be sceptical -- very sceptical -- of

> the answers.

> All for now. CHEERS, Rod A.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 May 1997 22:14:44 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: censored Kerouac letters

 

Rod Anstee wrote:

>

> What this IS is another of Gerry's garbled, exaggerated, self-serving

> paranoid delusions, based mostly upon his child-like "wish-thinking" view

 of... For myself,

> at the end of a painful week, brevity, if not complete silence, seems the

> best reponse. So, just one final thought.  I really liked Mark Hemenway's

> notion, a while back, that nothing in this matter is what it might first seem

> to you to be, and that the only way to sort things out is to do some research

> on your own. Don't just listen to Gerry, don't just listen to ME, don't JUST

> LISTEN to anybody! Ask questions. And be sceptical -- very sceptical -- of

> the answers.

> All for now. CHEERS, Rod A.

 

this has been a interesting and informative thread for me. having

listened to many sides, and learned a lot about history and copyright

and the libraries, i have to state that, lack of information in some of

these posts, that use vindictive namecalling and vicious intimidation

instead of thought, reason, and facts to support their veiw make me

think of two different  cliches

wheres the beef,

i am glad to be a woman, (meaning to cherish the logical mind with the

cool objective reason that there is probably no right, little justice

and that the case in court will be best decided in court).  I am most

interested in, was the will forged, are the papers safe and will the

ever really be accesible.

 I do not wish to remember a jack  k who didn't drink. or wasn't

sometimes an ass hole, or one that didn't change literature into

something just a little more alive. I am pretty sure he was at least

those three things.

patricia

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 May 1997 23:54:33 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject:      Re: t-shirts

 

At 04:27 PM 4/30/97 EDT, you wrote:

>Three cheers for Jeffrey on a job well done!

>

>Bill or Jeff, what are these shirts going to be? Will it say beat-l on them

I haven't been following the post like I should have and now that I am

reading it it sounds like it will be nice.Keep me informed. Phil Chaput

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 May 1997 21:17:02 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: censored Kerouac letters

 

At 10:11 PM 5/3/97 -0400, you wrote:

>What this IS is another of Gerry's garbled, exaggerated, self-serving

>paranoid delusions, based mostly upon his child-like "wish-thinking" view of

>the world we inhabit.

 

        Well, I've got to give Rod Anstee credit--he managed to get seven

insults into one sentence.  That's probably a record.  He gave up trying to

prove that I'm a self-serving Macchiavellian and has now reverted to

Sampas's earlier claims: that I'm just a crazy man.

        "Don't listen to Nicosia--he's just a nut they should have locked up

long ago."

        Fine, guys, but the judge in Albuquerque didn't think so.

        I wish Rod would come clean for once, and tell you all that he is a

Kerouac collector.  He bought up a bunch of pieces of the Kerouac archive

for himself, through his friend Jeffrey Weinberg.  Then he was honest enough

for a while to tell me what was going on; but what happened is Sampas got

mightily pissed at him for blowing the whistle, and then Annie Charters, his

old buddy, got so pissed at him for blabbing that she cut out the big thank

you she gave him in the acknowledgements of Kerouac's SELECTED LETTERS.  In

the galley proofs she thanked him profusely; by the time the book came out,

she lumped him in with seventeen other people who "also helped."

        Rod's letter is preposterous.  If any of you have been following

last week's letters, I have said over and over again that I would like to

put all the bad feelings, angry words, on both sides behind John Sampas and

myself--that as Jan Kerouac's literary executor, I would like to work with

him on getting the Kerouac archive on deposit in a library, and I am willing

to begin speaking with him about this on any terms he chooses.  I have

called for John Sampas to join in a dialogue on the subject of preserving

Kerouac's archive, here on the internet.  I have said I have no grudge

against John Sampas, and that I want to see only 3 things--John Sampas do

right by Jack Kerouac's work, by his daughter's memory, and by his family

(Paul Blake, Jr.)  I have never called John Sampas "the world's worst

villain."  This is pure Anstee poppycock.

        I did not say Sampas "dictated precisely which letters" were

included in the book--again, this is Anstee talking, not Nicosia.  I did say

Sampas told Charters that certain letters couldn't be published, certain

ones (especially those to Sammy and Stella) could and should be, and he also

made sure certain passages--especially those dealing with Jack's bisexuality

and other "dark side" characteristics--be taken out.  Back in the days when

Ann Charters was still talking to me (circa August 1993) we had a long talk

on the phone, and she told me of the problems she was having with Sampas

censoring the collection.  I suggested she use my archive at U Mass, Lowell,

because I had a lot of letters from Kerouac to his girlfriends, such as Lois

Sorrells.  Ann told me Sampas didn't want her putting in Jack's letters to

his girlfriends--it detracted from his relationship with Stella.  Ann also

told me that Sampas had forbidden her to put in any letters from Joyce

Johnson, because the Sampases were furious with Johnson after a piece she

had written about their relationship with Kerouac in FAME magazine.  More

recently, Ann gave an interview to a literary magazine in which she talked

about some of the things John Sampas asked her to take out of the letters.

        Those of you who looked closely at the text of the letters saw that

there were TWO HUNDRED ELLIPSES, that's two hundred places where you see ...

(dot dot dot) indicating material was removed.  I've traced a number of

those passages down in copies of Kerouac letters I have, and many of them

have to do with sexual and other "dark side" issues of Kerouac--including

his antisemitism.  Ann Charters never bothered to explain what was in those

missing passages.  Then Mr. Anstee along with Dave Moore of England (founder

of the former magazine THE KEROUAC CONNECTION) found that THERE ARE ANOTHER

TWO HUNDRED DELETIONS in the SELECTED LETTERS where Ann Charters has

completely failed to mark the omission--not even a dot dot dot.  SECRET

CUTS, you might call them.  That's 400 omissions in a book 600 pages long.

        I'll be glad to reprint some of that Ann Charters interview here if

I can dig it out.  Anstee himself was working on an essay called "1400 Dots"

in which he looked at the kind of passages Ann Charters cut out.  I helped

him with this by spending a whole day in my private attic archive, digging

out copies of Kerouac letters that would help him trace down these missing

passages.  But Anstee never published "1400 Dots."  I guess politically he

figured it was time to make friends with the Charters/Sampas group again.

        Instead of any more attacks on Nicosia's mental capacity, Rod, why

don't you print "1400 Dots" here on the internet?  Afraid Mr. Sampas might

not sell you any more Kerouac pieces if you do?

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 May 1997 21:17:56 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Attila's questions, final chapter

 

Response to Paul Maher:

        The private individuals who purchased MEX CITY BLUES notebooks and

BOOK OF DREAMS manuscript were not professional dealers.  I don't claim to

have all the info on this subject.  I'm not, after all, a private

investigator.  I also don't think there has to be this huge cloak of secrecy

over the whole affair.  If John Sampas has empowered certain dealers to sell

Kerouac materials only to the New York Public Library, or only to libraries,

I wish he'd step forth and let us know.  Everyone would applaud that,

including me.

        There's been a lot of games-playing here, and I'm calling for an end

to it.  Jack Kerouac is too important to American literature to have people

playing hide-and-seek with his archive.

        Best, Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 00:43:24 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: virtual Fillmore

Comments: To: stauffer@pacbell.net

 

James and Leon:

Thanks for taking me to the virtual Fillmore. I can see bashful Annie's face

as she tried to remember (the) who. That's him on the corner.

C. Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 May 1997 21:53:39 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Attila's questions, final chapter

 

Answer to Phil Chaput's latest:

 

        Jeffrey Weinberg told me he sold BOOK OF DREAMS to a private

collector.  Jeffrey and I don't always get along--we're both hot-tempered,

feisty sorts--but I have never accused him of dishonesty.  I think Jeffrey

is completely honest and above-board, and I have never attacked him.

Moreover, unlike Mr. Sampas, Ann Charters, and other Sampas supporters, he

has not been totally cagey and evasive with me.  Quite the contrary, he has

talked to me openly twice--for more than an hour each time--about how, why,

and to whom he sold Kerouac artifacts.  Bravo for that honesty!!!

        Sampas did not instruct Weinberg to sell Kerouac artifacts only to

libraries.  Quite the opposite, he told him to sell them where they would

fetch the most money.   I hold nothing against him for selling off pieces of

the Kerouac archive.  He was doing his job--dealers take people's archives

and they sell them, if asked to do so, for maximum profits.  If Jeffrey

hadn't taken on the job, Sampas would quickly have found another dealer to

do that work for him.  He has, in fact, found other dealers.

        The fact is, I hate to drag Jeffrey Weinberg into this here.  I know

he doesn't need this kind of publicity.  But I'm really getting tired of all

you folks pretending that the great sell-off of Kerouac artifacts didn't happen.

        I don't know what route the BOOK OF DREAMS took back into the New

York Public Library.   But the fact is, all those manuscripts were offered

for sale to private dealers and collectors.  Ken Lopez, Richard Marcel,

James Musser, and a host of other dealers will attest to this.

        All these personal attacks on me!!!  Now I'm a bad guy for not

donating to a committee that has tried everything in the book to keep me out

of Lowell.  Oh, I suppose that's a lie too.  Well let's get Brad Parker here

on the Internet.  Brad Parker is president of the Lowell Corporation for the

Humanities.  He was the person who arranged for me to come and speak in

Lowell in 1988 at the dedication of the Kerouac Memorial.  When people on

the Lowell Kerouac Committee heard he was doing that, they tried everything

they could to stop him.  Paul Marion told him he would "play hardball" with

him, lock up every venue in town so that he'd have no place to put me, and

there were suggestions that Parker's funding might be attacked as well.  The

whole history of this event, and how Parker finally triumphed in bringing

not only me but also Jan to Lowell in 1988, is a saga in itself, which I'm

not going to bore the BEAT-L readers with now.  But after all that, I should

donate to this committee???  Jan's lawsuit was filed in 1994.  Yet neither

Jan nor I were invited from 1988 through 1993.  And when I showed up in 1993

and my event was publicized by Michael McClure, both Parker and I were

called a "son of a bitch!" by one of the leaders of the Lowell Kerouac

Committee, Roger Brunelle.  YOU'LL GET MY FIRST CHECK AS SOON AS I GET MR.

BRUNELLE'S APOLOGY.

        "Keep my beef with John Sampas private"?  I'm not concerned about

John Sampas.  He'll be wealthy for the rest of his life, and I truly hope he

finds happiness.  Since you can't hear the tone of my voice, I say that

WITHOUT A TRACE OF SARCASM.  I AM concerned about what he's doing to a

national literary treasure, the papers and manuscripts of Jack Kerouac

        Bill Morgan was on the internet earlier today, informing us that it

only took one month for Ginsberg to complete his negotiations to get his

entire archive (larger than Kerouac's) into Stanford.

        Instead of all these distracting attacks on Nicosia, why don't one

of you folks simply answer the BIG QUESTION:  WHAT IS KEEPING MR. SAMPAS

FROM PUTTING JACK KEROUAC'S ARCHIVE INTO A LIBRARY RIGHT NOW???

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 00:59:01 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: censored Kerouac letters

 

In a message dated 97-05-03 23:33:53 EDT, you write:

 

<< I am most

 interested in, was the will forged, are the papers safe and will the

 ever really be accesible.

  I do not wish to remember a jack  k who didn't drink. or wasn't

 sometimes an ass hole, or one that didn't change literature into

 something just a little more alive. I am pretty sure he was at least

 those three things.

 patricia

  >>

Patricia: I just wrote Andrew who helped clarify an evening with Allen and

Jack and some others whose names I couldn't remember. I told him what I

thought of the Kerouac estate battle. I have similar conclusions as you.

Andrew:

Thanks for helping me clarify the night. Yes, my wife Pam and I drove Allen

to the show in a Mercedes that we were delivering to S.F. We natch tagged

with Allen because he had to stay with us to drive to the Big Pink's house

and then to Cherry Valley. I think Peter was in Cherry Valley.  Ed Sanders

was already at the Buckley show. We stayed the whole time and left with K, Ed

& Allen. I think the other guys were with us at that time. Seems Allen

introduced us as we were deciding on a bar.

I never saw Jack after that night.

I'm interested in the controversy (estate) in so far as I'd just like to know

who ends up being the biggest chickenshit(s). Other than that, I'd like to

think that the literary archives are available for scholars to study. I know

that there are many fights over wills. Nothing unusual in that.

Yeah Robt Kelly will be at Oneonta. He's a friend of Dr. Pat Meanor (who is

friends with Allen's cousin, Joel Ghademak). Pat invited me to his beat

course and invites authors such as Kelly to read there.

C.Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 01:21:08 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Beat-L T-shirts

 

Phil:

 

The artwork for the T-shirt is being drawn by SF underground comix legend, S.

Clay Wilson. S. Clay visited Charlie Plymell over Easter weekend and Charlie

put Wilson on line to converse with the list - and we decided as a group to

approach Wilson for the job of doing the artwork for a Beat-l T-shirt.

 

I spoke with S. Clay last week, we negotiated some details, and I sent him a

check yesterday. Wilson ran some ideas by me and I asked him to include the

Beat-L name and internet address in the design.

 

Water Row Books is sponsoring the shirts by contributing the funds needed to

pay Wilson and have the shirts made. The shirts will be offered to Beat-L

members at cost plus shipping.

 

I will keep the list notified of the progress and will offer to send members

a copy of the artwork if they want to see it first before buying one.

When the final cost and shipping date are determined, I'll let the Beat-L

know.

 

Thanks -

Jeffrey Weinberg

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 May 1997 22:35:31 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Public Domain

 

        Some of you have inquired about the seven Kerouac books that are in

public domain.  I mentioned two of them already, the original limited

edition of VISIONS OF CODY put out by New Directions in 1960, which is about

1/3 of the final posthumous text; and BIG SUR.

        I was about to mention the other five, but got a note from the

director of Northwestern University Press that I should look into this GATT

thing, of recapturing lost copyrights.  I had always heard that once a book

was in public domain, it stays there forever.  OKAY, before I go any further

here, I better do my legal homework.  If anybody knows anything about this,

please let me know.

        I think it's a great idea a couple of you had, to put these texts up

on the Web.

        More on this subject later.

        Best always, Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 01:49:34 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Estate Research

 

Both Rod and Mark have suggested we each do our own research on the

"controversy" prior to passing judgement.  My question is what sources are

being suggested?  I asked earlier for someone to post a summary of the Ann

Charters article and I hope someone does so.  What other evidence would

anyone suggest that refutes what Gerry Nicosia has been telling us?  Who

should we talk to?  What should we read?

 

Jerry Cimino

Fog City

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 02:06:42 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: Attila's Questions, Final Chapter

 

At 08:06 PM 5/3/97 -0400, you wrote:

>At 11:49 AM 5/3/97 -0700, you wrote:

>>Response to Paul Maher's question:

>>        What is all that Kerouac stuff doing in the New York Public Library?

>>        The NYPL has been building a Beat/Kerouac collection since the 60's.

>>It is indeed one of the best in the country.  One of their early

>>acquisitions was the manuscript of SATORI IN PARIS, which supposedly Fred

>>Jordan had simply held on to after Grove published the book.  They have been

>>buying up Kerouac/Beat stuff whenever and wherever they can find it--IF THEY

>>CAN AFFORD IT.  They reputedly bought a large collection of stuff from Ann

>>Charters last year for a quarter million bucks.

>>        Both MEX CITY BLUES notebooks and BOOK OF DREAMS manuscripts are in

>>the NYPL.  However, according to Jeffrey Weinberg, both were sold to PRIVATE

>>COLLECTORS, and later resold to the NYPL.  There is even a polaroid of the

>>BOOK OF DREAMS notebook being sold to the private collector.  Also, by the

>>way, Jack typed several versions of MEX CITY BLUES, and I don't think the

>>library has all those typed drafts--though I welcome Rodney Phillips (the

>>acquisition librarian) or anyone else at the NYPL to comment on this.

>>        Jan and I asked Rodney Phillips if he had ever BOUGHT ANY KEROUAC

>>MATERIAL DIRECTLY FROM SAMPAS.  My recollection is that he said no, though

>>there may have been a few things (letters of Jack to Stella?) that Sampas

>>did sell to the library.  We asked why he hadn't bought the manuscripts,

>>other notebooks, etc., and he said the prices Sampas was asking were too

>>high.  He did say that Sampas had DONATED A BUNCH OF XEROXES OF KEROUAC

>>LETTERS to the library.

>>        Sampas also allowed the NYPL to SHOW THE ON THE ROAD MANUSCRIPT,

>>without selling it to them.

>>        The NYPL would of course love to buy the entire Kerouac archive, but

>>the most they could pay for it is one million dollars (for everything,

>>thousands of different pieces).  Sampas has declined to sell it to them at

>>that price (apparently not enough).

>>

>From what I understand when I called the NYPL...the OTR manuscript is on

deposit, a common practice for things of that nature. Almost like a Picasso

on loan in a museum from a private owner. The person there says that there

is a numerous amount of material in the library already and even more

coming. Scholars however rarely visit the archive. It is virtually unused!

All this talk about research and the need for access and I've yet to see

more than five scholarly articles published or that have come to light. I

think people need to do more homework other than relying on one side of the

story. No offense to Mr. Nicosia but I think some people are being unfair to

the Kerouac Estate. They remain voiceless on this list but instead...they do

the talking with all these things getting published! What is the problem! If

there are things left out of letters then go to the NYPL or Mogan Center in

Lowell where Gerry says there are "2000 letters" and research it! You may

not be able to quote from the letters but it is no infringement for

paraphrasing! That is scholarship. That is how literary history moves on.

Hell I'll publish it in The Kerouac Quarterly if it is intellectually sound

and verified with documentation. Please though, this endless pondering is

all just so many words. You are all friends here united in the spirit of

Kerouac. Do something to maintain that spirit instead of trying to put it

out. Goodnight. Thanks for reading....Regards to all, Paul of TKQ.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 13:15:19 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Apollinaire's howl.

 

amici,

        have someone noticed that ALCOOLS written

        by Guillaume Apollinaire is an howl,

 

                ZONE

        A la fin tu es las de ce monde ancien.

 

        ....

 

 

ciao a tutti,

vale!   *rinaldo        a not competent beet    *

        *       TUTTI GIU' PER TERRA!           *

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 13:15:17 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      t-shirt mania around the world

 

amici,

        a crowd in milan has stopped to

        see the greatest T-shirt in the

        world,

        a bunch of netsurfers invented

        that such a thing,

        <http://www.mailshirt.com>

        the above site,

 

ciao a tutti,

vale!   *rinaldo        a not competent beet    *

        *       TUTTI GIU' PER TERRA!           *

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 07:04:44 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>

Subject:      Re: Beat-L T-shirts

In-Reply-To:  <970504012107_1221624602@emout02.mail.aol.com> from "Jeffrey

              Weinberg" at May 4, 97 01:21:08 am

 

Jeffrey wrote:

> I will keep the list notified of the progress and will offer to send members

> a copy of the artwork if they want to see it first before buying one.

> When the final cost and shipping date are determined, I'll let the Beat-L

> know.

 

A simpler method: just scan the image, put it on a web page and

post the URL?  If you don't have a web server handy, Jeffrey, send

me the artwork and I'll do it.

 

------------------------------------------------------

           Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com

 

   Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/

            (the beat literature web site)

 

 Queensboro Ballads: http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/

             (my fantasy folk-rock album)

 

          ###################################

 

          "Tie yourself to a tree with roots"

                    -- Bob Dylan

-----------------------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 10:14:40 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Re: May Day Blues-May Day Reds

 

Jo,

 

        Loved your description of the May fest - particularly since it was

completely unknown to me. I grew up in Brooklyn and Connecticut; never heard

of the May Feast or May baskets. Do you know any books that would describe

it? I haven't searched the Web yet to see what I'd find.

 

        By the way, it is Jo and not Joe, right? I saw Gerald Nicosia using

Joe in a post and wondered. I live in Montreal now, not too far from where

Rod Anstee lives, and will be going up to see him / meet him face to face.

The material being posted by you and by Gerald has all found its way into a

new mailbox for me to print and review again at my leisure. Haven't visited

your site yet, but will this week. Thanks again for all the info you've been

providing us.

 

        I'm fifty and as I recall you're about fifteen years older. What got

you into this stuff and the world of the Web? Was it a natural outgrowth of

your earlier life? Apologies if I'm being too prying, but I'm fascinated by

the Web community that can form so quickly around a topic/interest and how

revealing people can be. It has led, for instance to Derek Bealieu and Marie

Countryman  arranging to meet here in Montreal with me end of June /

beginning of July. They were aghast when I suggested that mmaybe we should

invite Rod down from Ottawa for one of the days!

 

        Regards,    Antoine

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

     "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"

                        -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 11:26:50 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         William Morgan <Ferlingh2@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Attila's Questions, Final Chapter

 

Dear Gerry:

I think my first conversations with Stanford librarians was in April 1994 and

the contract officially selling the collection was in Aug. 1994, what's the

date of your poster signing conversation?

Bill Morgan

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 11:30:17 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         William Morgan <Ferlingh2@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Ginsy's position on "the squabble"

 

Jerry:

Sorry, I'm not willing to enter this fray except to clarify any factual

matters.  I don't believe that I can speak for Allen's thoughts and I don't

know of any writings by him on the subject, although somewhere there may be

letters to friends addressing it.

Yours,

Bill Morgan

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 11:31:10 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Subject:      Re: Cornix?

In-Reply-To:  <97May3.205557-0400_edt.587271-32661+4246@skywalker.microtec.net>

 

On Sat, 3 May 1997, Antoine Maloney wrote:

 

>         What's the Cornix web applet that you refer to?

 

It takes a body of ascii text and flashes it on the screen, a word at a time

-- think of it as viewing a text via flash cards. The company that makes it

has done lots of work in the area of speed reading, etc. and maintain that

this technique allows for maximum comprehension of a work in minimum time.

I've tried it with several texts (including a Burroughs novel I found

online) and feel that it's worthy of exploration. Because let's face it, it

is usually easier and quicker to read something on paper than on a computer

screen. It doesn't have to be this way -- it _shouldn't_ -- but current

computer interfaces usually try to mimic a virtual piece of paper rather

than do something original (of which the possibilities with computers are

endless), so we end up staring at our screens going, "Is this all there is?"

 

> >I heard there was absolutely no punctuation in the original OTR. I want to

> >use the Cornix web applet (http://www.halcyon.com/chigh/corndemo.html) on

> >said ASCII file of OTR to view it word-at-a-time on giant screens.

>

>         On big screens?   Why?

 

Just for dramatic effect, really. It would certainly pass on my 17" monitor,

but if I connected my computer to, say, a 36" screen, I could sit back on

the couch in my living room and watch the words flash by on the screen

across the room. It would enable a group of people to read the same book at

the same time...

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 08:44:59 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>

Subject:      I swore I'd stay out of this but what the hell

In-Reply-To:  <970504113016_-399843355@emout15.mail.aol.com> from "William

              Morgan" at May 4, 97 11:30:17 am

 

Okay, Gerry -- here's a curve-ball for ya ...

 

About a year before she died, Jan Kerouac gave permission, through

a mutual acquaintance of ours named Ralph Virgo, for me to run an

excerpt from her unpublished novel "Parrot Fever" in Literary Kicks.

I liked the excerpt a lot, and when I began putting together an

anthology of selected original fiction from the web (which will finally

be on the bookshelves this summer) I thought of including the piece.

Jan had died by this time, so I contacted you as holder of her

copyrights.

 

We tried to come to terms for using the piece in the book and couldn't

(unfortunately this book is being done at a very slim budget) but you

then insisted I stop running the excerpt in Literary Kicks, and stated

this to me in no uncertain legal terms.  Being a mellow, happy-go-lucky

kind of guy who has no wish to ever go to court, I quickly removed the

piece, making no public fuss about it, and that was the end of that

story.

 

But now when I hear your intense and passionate calls for John Sampas

to immediately yield control of the Jack Kerouac archives by donating it

all to a public library, I wonder if you will in that spirit allow me to

re-install Jan Kerouac's excerpt at my site, which is just as public and

just as non-profit (or more) as any public library?  Or is it that you

don't like somebody forcing your hand and have various public and personal

reasons for not wanting to do this, and if so, how are you behaving any

differently than John Sampas?

 

Please answer this without bringing up either Paul Blake, Stella Sampas,

Adolf Hitler or anybody else who has nothing to do with it!

 

------------------------------------------------------

           Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com

 

   Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/

            (the beat literature web site)

 

 Queensboro Ballads: http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/

             (my fantasy folk-rock album)

 

          ###################################

 

          "Tie yourself to a tree with roots"

                    -- Bob Dylan

-----------------------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 08:45:53 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bonnie Lee Howard <howardb@SONOMA.EDU>

Subject:      Various and Sundry--Mostly Pleas for Help :-)

 

Hello Beat-L,

 

Wow. Been a long time. I first joined this list right after my father, Don

Carpenter, died in July 1995. Back then I was looking for advice on how to

handle his estate, as he named me his literary executor. At that time I

took the advice of a friend and did nothing. Needed to heal first. So now

I'm back, life has calmed down, and I am once again in the position of

asking you knowledgable folks for some help.

 

What I have are boxes and boxes of papers, letters, chapbooks, posters,

etc. from the Beat era. My father used to arrange poetry readings in S.F.

during the early 60's. So I have stuff, besides my dad's, of Lew Welch,

Allen Ginsberg, Gary Snyder, Michael McClure, Phil Whalen, etc. I think

what needs to happen is to have all this stuff organized and appraised,

and then I can decide what the heck to do with it all. A friend suggested

that I get Andreas Brown, who handled the Ginsberg/Stanford archive deal

(I think) to help me. Any advice you all have would be appreciated. I care

a great deal about where my father's things eventually end up. I would

like writers and students and the public to be able to access them for

research purposes. Right now I am against the idea of separating things

and selling them off piece by piece to collectors. But as the estate's

executor, I have to do the best I can, financially, for the estate and its

beneficiaries. Damn. Suddenly I feel just as lost and confused as I was

two years ago.

 

While I'm here, I thought I'd throw in a few more comments :-) Re:

Ginsberg and Dylan...my mom recalls being at a party in S.F. with both

Allen and Dylan. I'm thinking this probably wasn't when they first met,

but it had to have been around 1963 or so...Orlovsky had a cast on his

leg, if that helps set the time more accurately.

 

And one more thing...I am helping a friend do some research on Ginsberg

for a possible biography. Does anyone know how we could get hold of a copy

of the transcript of the HOWL obscenity trial? I did a rather rudimentary

search yesterday, and see that Lawrence Ferlinghetti wrote a book about

it, called _Howl of the Censor_, but it seems to be out-of-print. And is

Judge Clayton Horn, who presided, still alive?

 

I guess that's enough for one post :-) It's nice to be back and reading

you all again. Is Dan Barth still here? If so...hello!!!

 

Thanks so very much,

Bonnie Howard

howardb@sonoma.edu

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 19:59:27 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

 

aulica vita, splndida miseria.

 

 

vale!   *       the beet        *

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 11:05:13 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      censorship of letters

 

I quote from "ANN CHARTERS BEAT SCENE INTERVIEW," in BEAT SCENE 24, spring 1996:

 

Ann Charters is being interviewed by Dan Barth:

 

DB: "As far as you know has there been any selling off piecemeal [of

Kerouac's papers, etc.]?"

 

AC: "There has been some.*  I don't know how much because Sampas doesn't

tell me.  Why should he?  I'm not getting any income from it and I don't,

frankly, have a relationship with John Sampas that is one of a confidante.

I work for hire, his terms.  HE GETS THE FINAL SAY ON EVERYTHING.  [italics

mine]  In other words, if he doesn't want a letter because he thinks it's

unflattering to Phil Wahlen and he doesn't want to embarrass Phil--and there

was one incident where the four dots was because Kerouac was joking about

Phil Whalen's sexual experiences, shall we say; I'm trying to be as bland as

possible here--I think John was completely within his rights.  I thought it

was kind of funny, but John said, "Hey, he's an old man, Phil Whalen, and he

doesn't want that stuff circulating."**  Someday there will be the Complete

Letters of Jack Kerouac.  Everyone will be dead, including me, and you

perhaps, although I hope not, and we'll have all those things.  There will

be no four dots."

 

*One of the reasons Ann Charters knew there was "some" selling is because

she bought some of those items from the Kerouac archive for her own collection.

 

**I know Phil Whalen quite well; he never asked John Sampas to censor

Kerouac's letters on his behalf.  Phil has a great sense of humor about

sexuality and everything else, and he would be the last person to want his

history with the Beats rewritten.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 11:17:51 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: MEMORY BABE ARCHIVE CLOSED

 

> No offense to Mr. Nicosia but I think some people are being unfair to

>the Kerouac Estate. They remain voiceless on this list but instead...they do

>the talking with all these things getting published! What is the problem! If

>there are things left out of letters then go to the NYPL or Mogan Center in

>Lowell where Gerry says there are "2000 letters" and research it! You may

>not be able to quote from the letters but it is no infringement for

>paraphrasing!

 

        To Paul Maher: indeed there are 2,000 Kerouac letters (in xerox) in

the MEMORY BABE collection at U Mass, Lowell, Special Collections (the Mogan

Center) plus 300 taped interviews with people who knew Kerouac,

transcriptions of those interviews, letters to me, etc.  (although as you

know 60 of the letters to me have disappeared).

        The problem is, my archive has been closed to the public.  This

happened about two years ago, after John Sampas went to speak with the

librarian, to complain that the public should not have access to this

material without his permission.  I am currently working on a breach of

contract suit against the university, because I was assured during

negotiations that this material would all be made freely available to the

public for study.

        In the meantime, the 300 tapes (on cheap cassettes) have never even

been duplicated by the university, and are now seriously deteriorating.  If

this deterioration is allowed to continue, we will lose precious primary

source material, interviews with over 100 people who are now dead (Ted

Berrigan, John Clellan Holmes, Kenneth Rexroth, Robert Duncan, Bob Kaufman,

Kerouac's three wives, et al.) which can never be gathered again.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 20:20:27 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      hooooo! I'M A BEET

 

'005Y89U+531K=F2N  CA NZ

+L=F2M=E0E2FK+VP

KV qmn

onhapvihrwq     gty72+=F956 81682 B(q2n=F2k2qr

i04242 =20

+friends,

        what chauvinism?

 

        are'u usofam relatad

 

        but i'm conviced

 

        A BEET IS COSMOPOLITAN

 

        ARE U SAFE!

 

 

        vale!   Rinaldo.-

 

        aaaaaaaahtrgsuysuhsajcqBNHIP

HBVRPWQ

NHVGVPQ

bp'=F9=E8

lllllllllllllllg5ki+=E8p06=EC4'0u=EC97uy2

=EC9q+kirw        vgkbwrghp

<

CSACKMNVDNVWMLKDVOI0

5'058'585966  6       l,mlvkdavnksvHUVF++8942U4939U3198'4=F9=EC

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 20:21:33 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: MEMORY BABE ARCHIVE CLOSED

 

if u rrelate jk only in usa the thing is less...

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 20:22:08 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: censorship of letters

 

allen ginsgebrg was censored! not only jk

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 20:22:47 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: I swore I'd stay out of this but what the hell

 

the history comes when yhe thing are awright...

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 20:23:31 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: Cornix?

 

if the poetry comes to hardwired this is

awright!

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 20:25:01 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: censorship of letters

 

what's up only ag is censored!

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 20:26:14 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: Attila's Questions, Final Chapter

 

in italy what's happen, sorry how u are speakin' in NYC

frank zappa from the heaven...

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 20:28:23 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: Attila's Questions, Final Chapter

 

jk is UNIVERSAL POETRY WHAT'S ARE U SPEAKING ATTILA?

OFF BROADWAY SCENE?

 

        * THE BEET *

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 20:29:21 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: Estate Research

 

JK IS AN UNIVERAL GUY WHAT'S ARE U SPEAKING?

 

*       TUTTI GIU' PER TERRA *

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 20:29:57 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: virtual Fillmore

 

PAmela who is?

 the beet

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 20:30:43 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: censored Kerouac letters

 

only AG who's censored guys!

 

        the beet

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 20:31:03 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: t-shirts

 

great!!

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 11:41:16 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: t-shirts

 

Rinaldo Rasa wrote:

>

> great!!

 

The shirt site is great, Rinaldo.  Is the model a friend of yours?

 

beeten in California--or I guess elf abuse would be to beet your meet

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 15:02:36 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: MEMORY BABE ARCHIVE CLOSED

 

>If one were to contact the estate then...one would have access with

permission. I would assume you would have to have a legitimate reason to

want to go in there. Research is one legitimate reason. Just wanting to see

the archives is not. If I'm not mistaken...most archives are like that. I

know that's the way with the Hemingway archives in Boston or the Whittier

archives in Haverhill, Massachusetts or the Faulkner collection. What would

make Kerouac any different?

Kerouac's letteres belong to the estate so naturally...you would need the

estate's permission to see them. The tapes I assume would be a different

matter altogether. There are many living voices on those tapes. The Estate

does not own those...they do however have a say about the letters. Sad

enough but true nonetheless. I can't see anything wrong with that set up.

That is standard protocol with every major collection holding primary

resources.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 22:19:43 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      T-SHIRT AD (CALL BENETTON A fiend of mine)

 

argues the beet (be[a]t remember the mcarthy interview):

italian style by fiorucci (not ad in this hit) is a lot

greet than everything in the world u know, now i suppose

the Beat-L goto the T-shirt to Fiorucci, i presume, like

Ferlinghetti go in florence for his Light bookstore, i

as a venetian guy disappointed!...

 

a T-shirt creates in USA is off!! really friends tell me!

 

 

                * rinaldo *

                * the beet*

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 22:21:15 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: MEMORY BABE ARCHIVE CLOSED

 

jk write his works w/out puntactiuon what's u are following?

the street is yr place.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 16:20:21 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Robert H. Sapp" <rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>

Subject:      how to resubscribe

 

excuse this interruption, i sure know how annoying it can be to

longstanding beat-list members.

 

i've been away, and i need the email address for the server so i can get

back onto the Beat-l.

 

thanks,

Eric

rhs4@crystal.palace.net

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 22:45:29 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: Beat-L T-shirts

 

At 07.04 04/05/97 -0700, you wrote:

>Jeffrey wrote:

>> I will keep the list notified of the progress and will offer to send members

>> a copy of the artwork if they want to see it first before buying one.

>> When the final cost and shipping date are determined, I'll let the Beat-L

>> know.

>

>A simpler method: just scan the image, put it on a web page and

>post the URL?  If you don't have a web server handy, Jeffrey, send

>me the artwork and I'll do it.

>

>------------------------------------------------------

>           Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com

>

>   Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/

>            (the beat literature web site)

>

> Queensboro Ballads: http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/

>             (my fantasy folk-rock album)

>

>          ###################################

>

>          "Tie yourself to a tree with roots"

>                    -- Bob Dylan

>-----------------------------------------------------

>

>>From CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU!owner-beat-l Sun May  4 16:15:06 1997

>Return-Path: <owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

>Received: from SEGATE.SUNET.SE by gpnet.it with esmtp using sendmail

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DST)

>Received: from segate.sunet.se by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a)

with SMTP id <2.CA1D6D22@SEGATE.SUNET.SE>; Sun, 4 May 1997 16:15:04 +0100

>Received: from CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b) with

>          NJE id 0386 for BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU; Sun, 4 May 1997 10:14:17

-0400

>Received: from CUNYVM (NJE origin SMTP5@CUNYVM) by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (LMail

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>          with TCP; Sun, 04 May 97 10:13:42 EDT

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>Message-ID:  <97May4.101443-0400_edt.586070-32661+4495@skywalker.microtec.net>

>Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 10:14:40 -0400

>Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

>Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

>From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

>Subject:      Re: May Day Blues-May Day Reds

>To:           Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

>

>Jo,

>

>        Loved your description of the May fest - particularly since it was

>completely unknown to me. I grew up in Brooklyn and Connecticut; never heard

>of the May Feast or May baskets. Do you know any books that would describe

>it? I haven't searched the Web yet to see what I'd find.

>

>        By the way, it is Jo and not Joe, right? I saw Gerald Nicosia using

>Joe in a post and wondered. I live in Montreal now, not too far from where

>Rod Anstee lives, and will be going up to see him / meet him face to face.

>The material being posted by you and by Gerald has all found its way into a

>new mailbox for me to print and review again at my leisure. Haven't visited

>your site yet, but will this week. Thanks again for all the info you've been

>providing us.

>

>        I'm fifty and as I recall you're about fifteen years older. What got

>you into this stuff and the world of the Web? Was it a natural outgrowth of

>your earlier life? Apologies if I'm being too prying, but I'm fascinated by

>the Web community that can form so quickly around a topic/interest and how

>revealing people can be. It has led, for instance to Derek Bealieu and Marie

>Countryman  arranging to meet here in Montreal with me end of June /

>beginning of July. They were aghast when I suggested that mmaybe we should

>invite Rod down from Ottawa for one of the days!

>

>        Regards,    Antoine

> Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

>

>     "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"

>                        -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips

>

>

amici,

        a crowd in milan has stopped to

        see the greatest T-shirt in the

        world,

        a bunch of netsurfers invented

        that such a thing,

        <http://www.mailshirt.com>

        the above site,

 

ciao a tutti,

vale!   *rinaldo        a not competent beet    *

        *       TUTTI GIU' PER TERRA!           *

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 22:46:38 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: Attila's questions, final chapter

 

jk is gone ag is gone

what'$ u are told ?

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 22:48:42 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: censored Kerouac letters

 

only AG was censored what's are u serching for?

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 22:50:27 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: censorship of letters

 

only allen ginsberg was

censopred what mess are u

talk 'bout?

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 22:51:44 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: censored Kerouac letters

 

only allen ginsberg was the p'oet

censored  not too bad if jk not

keep tjhe same thing!

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 22:53:11 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: Ann Charters article on Estate Battle

 

the estate (in italiano estate = summer english)

is a matter of attorney nor for beet

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 22:54:16 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: Dylan-Plymell

 

dylan-dos-dylan-thomas-who're u pamela? holmes asks.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 22:56:06 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: Attila's Questions, Final Chapter

 

i was jaled with mexico city blues in my

poket, are u mad to exibit an suit 'bout

this =F9matter

                        a beet

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 22:56:54 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: censored Kerouac letters

 

                                only

                                AG

                                was

                                censored

 

                                tutti giu' per terra!

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 22:58:35 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: Dylan-Plymell

 

dylan-u are, in my opinion out of the mind of the universe

 

 

                        the beeeet

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 22:59:40 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: New Q's for Nicosia

 

                                keep

                                yr

                                head

                                in

                                yr

                                hands

 

 

                                *       the beet        *

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 23:01:05 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: Attila's Questions, Final Chapter

 

attila devasted venice italy in earlier times,

so i for my ancestor i beg his pardon..

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 23:02:01 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: Attila's Questions, Final Chapter

 

what's are do u gouing?

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 23:02:58 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: Attila's Questions, Final Chapter

 

there's a world that is ignoring that stuff but

loves jk

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 23:03:57 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: Ginsy's position on "the squabble"

 

paranoia is the train's not in arrive

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 23:04:34 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: Attila's Questions, Final Chapter

 

don't comin'further

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 23:04:59 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: Attila's questions, final chapter

 

legacy what's

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 15:58:27 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: censorship of letters

 

Rinaldo, I have so enjoyed most of your postings.

I am confused by this latest flurry of postings,  I believe many of the

beats were censored in a variety of ways, and the thread title you were

responding to was describing a specific example of one type of

censorship.

I only found a booby type girl with half of a tee shirt on when i

visited the tee shirt site,  Is that kind of tee shirt what is popular

in europe now? love

patricia

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 23:05:37 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: Jake Barnes is beat (was "More on dope")

 

stop that's attorney trhread please

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 23:07:14 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: New Q's for Nicosia

 

there is an island in mediterranea sea?

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 23:07:50 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: more on dope

 

please, have a lot of funny in yr replies

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 23:08:20 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: New Q's for Nicosia

 

& ciprus is near ?

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 23:09:25 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: Attila's questions, final chapter

 

attila destroyed venice

'cuz of i'm a bit disappointing

 

 

        * the beet *

        * sant erasmo island *

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Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 23:11:43 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: Looking For Jack: The Literary Influences of Jack Kerouac

 

another lit influence , it's springtime , guys

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Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 16:05:18 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      (no subject)high spirits

 

rinaldo. ok with me if you stop your one liners and delete the threads

you don't want to read.  Is this called flooding? My daughter says it is

flooding, she is eleven, says that this is a way of tying up the list so

the messages allowed per day are used up. i being a facimile old lady

says it is a guy in an afternoon of high spirits who is just plain bored

with jk estate matters

p

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Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 23:12:07 +0200

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From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: For Charles Plymell

 

funny   pamela

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Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 23:12:55 +0200

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From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: Public Domain

 

At 17.07 02/05/97 -0700, you wrote:

>This means that these books that are in the public domain can be posted on

>the internet.

>

>It is too bad that Paul Blake cannot get royalties for them, but as they

>are in the public domain, someone ought to get busy and get them up.

>

>How about a beat-l ftp site?

>

>What books are in the public domain?

>

yes the say the bonnot band of anarchist

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Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 23:13:38 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: More on dope

 

At 19.41 02/05/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Blowing in the wind or pissing in the wind?

>C. Plymell

>

>

have a break

                        * the beet *

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Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 23:15:12 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: On the Road - Uncut

 

if OTR was a am lit why it's cut?

 

*the beet*

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Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 23:19:18 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: how to resubscribe

 

At 16.20 04/05/97 -0400, you wrote:

>excuse this interruption, i sure know how annoying it can be to

>longstanding beat-list members.

>

>i've been away, and i need the email address for the server so i can get

>back onto the Beat-l.

>

>thanks,

>Eric

>rhs4@crystal.palace.net

>

LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

SUBscribe BEAT-L Robert H. Sapp

 

 

 

tutti giu' per terra!

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Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 14:19:34 -0700

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From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: I swore I'd stay out of this but what the hell

 

At 08:44 AM 5/4/97 -0700, you wrote:

>Okay, Gerry -- here's a curve-ball for ya ...

>

>About a year before she died, Jan Kerouac gave permission, through

>a mutual acquaintance of ours named Ralph Virgo, for me to run an

>excerpt from her unpublished novel "Parrot Fever" in Literary Kicks.

>I liked the excerpt a lot, and when I began putting together an

>anthology of selected original fiction from the web (which will finally

>be on the bookshelves this summer) I thought of including the piece.

>Jan had died by this time, so I contacted you as holder of her

>copyrights.

>

>We tried to come to terms for using the piece in the book and couldn't

>(unfortunately this book is being done at a very slim budget) but you

>then insisted I stop running the excerpt in Literary Kicks, and stated

>this to me in no uncertain legal terms.  Being a mellow, happy-go-lucky

>kind of guy who has no wish to ever go to court, I quickly removed the

>piece, making no public fuss about it, and that was the end of that

>story.

>

>But now when I hear your intense and passionate calls for John Sampas

>to immediately yield control of the Jack Kerouac archives by donating it

>all to a public library, I wonder if you will in that spirit allow me to

>re-install Jan Kerouac's excerpt at my site, which is just as public and

>just as non-profit (or more) as any public library?  Or is it that you

>don't like somebody forcing your hand and have various public and personal

>reasons for not wanting to do this, and if so, how are you behaving any

>differently than John Sampas?

>

>Please answer this without bringing up either Paul Blake, Stella Sampas,

>Adolf Hitler or anybody else who has nothing to do with it!

>

>------------------------------------------------------

>           Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com

>

>   Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/

>            (the beat literature web site)

>

 

Dear Levi,    May 4, 1997

 

        For days I've been pinned down in a crossfire between Joe Chaput and

Rod Anstee, and now I feel I'm taking fire from you too.  How bout someone

give me a chance to catch my breath?  Or is this all-out guerrilla warfare?

        OK, I'm sure I explained to you, that my problem from the start as

Jan's literary executor has been that her heir, exhusband John Lash, has

been seeking desperately for some grounds to dismiss me (so he can complete

his deal with John Sampas).  I told you to take the never-published PARROT

FEVER from your web site because, potentially, John Lash could go before the

Albuquerque court and say: "Look, Nicosia is GIVING AWAY OUR [his and Jan's

half-brother's] PROPERTY.  He has now diminished the earning power of PARROT

FEVER by letting this guy Asher print it for nothing."

        That's far-fetched, I know, but Lash has already said things even

more far-fetched than that to the Albuquerque court.

        Of course I want to make Jan's work available.  She wanted me to put

her entire archive in the Bancroft library for scholars to look at, but Lash

has frustrated me there too by locking up all her stuff in his lawyer's

vault.  Recently the court even ORDERED LASH TO SEND ME JAN'S PAPERS, but he

still hasn't complied.

        So let's make a trade-off here.  Until the Appellate Court in Santa

Fe makes a final ruling on the extent of my powers, I'm not going to give

Mr. Lash any ammunition concerning how careless I am with his property.

What I can do is give you permission to print an equal amount of Jan's work

(equal no. of words) as was in the PARROT FEVER excerpt, from either of her

out-of-print books BABY DRIVER or TRAINSONG.  You tell me what excerpt you

want, what page to what page, and I'll fax you a letter of permission.

        Since those books were published and had their run years ago,

there's less grounds for Mr. Lash to say I "lost money for him" than if I

gave away parts of a new Jan Kerouac novel.

        I think I explained to you that, though a literary executor can

himself give permission, he/she does not have an absolute power; and all my

decisions are subject to review by the court, especially if Mr. Lash calls

for that review.

       John Sampas is not under the same tight rein since he is answerable

only to his family.

        Best, Gerry Nicosia

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Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 23:28:30 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: censorship of letters

 

patricia argues:

>Rinaldo, I have so enjoyed most of your postings.

>I am confused by this latest flurry of postings,  I believe many of the

>beats were censored in a variety of ways, and the thread title you were

>responding to was describing a specific example of one type of

>censorship.

>I only found a booby type girl with half of a tee shirt on when i

>visited the tee shirt site,  Is that kind of tee shirt what is popular

>in europe now? love

>patricia

>

no mention of T-shirt (that's fiorucci it's a must, agree with me)

but i'm concerned 'bout the list is usa centric, i loved ,really,

USofA but if i heard that jk is submitt in lawsuit by its writings

i'm disapponting like Omero or shakespeare was limited in his

emoticons by the state of a state

 

        * anarchist &beet *

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Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 14:31:52 -0700

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From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: MEMORY BABE ARCHIVE CLOSED

 

At 03:02 PM 5/4/97 -0400, you wrote:

>>If one were to contact the estate then...one would have access with

>permission. I would assume you would have to have a legitimate reason to

>want to go in there... they do however have a say about the letters. Sad

>enough but true nonetheless. I can't see anything wrong with that set up.

>That is standard protocol with every major collection holding primary

>resources.

>

 

Dear Paul:  May 4, 1997

 

        No, it's not "standard protocol."  Mr. Sampas does not in fact have

the legal power to keep you from reading anything by Jack Kerouac.

Otherwise I could not have done the research I did.  You (as I did) can walk

into Bancroft Library, the U. of Texas Humanities Research Center, UC Davis,

Reed College, or any number of other major libraries in this country that

have Kerouac letters on file, and you can read them and take notes on them

(as I did) without the Sampas family's permission.

        Ferlinghetti's archive in Berkeley (Bancroft) contains letters,

writings, tapes, etc. from several thousand different people, and you don't

need permission from a single one of them to use the archive for scholarly

purposes.  You only need Ferlinghetti's permission.

        Best, Gerry Nicosia

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Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 23:32:22 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: (no subject)high spirits

 

patrica (i love u):

>rinaldo. ok with me if you stop your one liners and delete the threads

>you don't want to read.  Is this called flooding? My daughter says it is

>flooding, she is eleven, says that this is a way of tying up the list so

>the messages allowed per day are used up. i being a facimile old lady

>says it is a guy in an afternoon of high spirits who is just plain bored

>with jk estate matters

>p

>

my nephwew (a girl 17 old) i interested 'bout jk on the road

today ask me form the book, & if the uncle is the better friend

i promised to give she, but what's she came next month in internet

connection, or/and in b-list what's up the matter jk lawsuits?

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Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 17:41:49 -0400

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From:         Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: censored Kerouac letters

 

In a message dated 97-05-03 17:58:20 EDT, you write:

 

<<  He dictated to Ann Charters what Kerouac letters could be published, and

 > which ones couldn't, and which parts had to be censored.

  >>

 

Supposedly, Ann Charters was hired by John Sampas to edit the letters book.

Ann has mentioned in public forums in response to questions about this, that

she was working for Sampas at the time, hence the fact that she did what was

requested while still trying to maintain her scholarly professionalism. She

also mentioned that she is confident that years from now, when all this

brouhaha dies down, that she envisions somebody coming out with a complete

letters book.

 



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