=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 16:42:02 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Paul Maher

 

Paul, I gotta tell ya buddy, you're showing your true colors with that last

post of yours.  For a guy who three days ago said he'd had enough and even

sent a message saying "unsubscribe" you sure have a whole lot to say about

nothing.

 

Paul, some of us were hoping to keep the *debate* at a reasonable level

during the cease fire of the Memorial Day weekend.  Obviously you don't want

to do your part as evidenced by the general nastiness of your tone.

 "Scholar?"  Paul, I hardly think so given the level to which you have sunk

here.

 

Say something useful, Paul, instead of general namecalling!  I asked you a

week ago why you thought Gabrielle's signature was real as opposed to faked

since you're one of the few people on the list to have actually seen the

will.  Why can't you answer questions put to you?

 

Jerry Cimino

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 16:53:24 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Clarification

 

I have received several back channel posts here.  First, I intend to

write Lowell and find out about the letters.  Not as a lawyer, but as a

fan.  Why?  Because there was a post here by Rod today that said that

Gerry sold restricted documents to UMass Lowell and that UMass Lowell

bought them.  I want to know the answer.  And if Gerry did that, then I

want to know should he have done that?  Was it legal?

 

If Rod has proof that it was done, then he should offer the proof.  Not

state what his assumption is.  This is not some comment on well, I think

Jimi Hendrix was high at such and such a festival.  And then finding out

he was not.  It was a direct statement that Gerry had done a thing that

was not right and in violation of a statemen printed on the document.

 

Now, since we can't look at the documents at Lowell, then we must do

what?  I don't know what else to do but write the woman and ask her if

Rod is correct.  Or Rod can answer on the list and give the information

that shows what he says is correct.  If he is not correct, then I want

to see it clarified.

 

Another thing, I am not Gerry's attorney.  I am not his agent.  If the

time comes that I enter into a contract with him to do any legal work, I

will inform the list and will not post on his matters on this list.  If

I were his attorney I would not be posting on this list.  All of what I

am doing is as a fan of Kerouac.  Now, if Rod is right, and there is no

explanation, I would not want to get involved.   But if Rod is wrong,

then it should be clarified.  I will post the letter tonight or tomorrow

when it is ready.

 

I have received other back channel mail with links to explain some

things to me, I will check it out.

 

Peace,

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 17:20:00 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rod Anstee <Nastees@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: "Purchased" versus "Donated"

 

I'm off out in a few minutes to coach soccer, but I wanted, if possible, to

nip this thread in the bud, albeit somewhat belatedly. It seems I used the

word "purchased" in regard to the 2000 xeroxed letters in the MB Archive,

when "donated' would have been a more appropriate word. I apologize for this

-- in my defense, I would say only that I don't think this distinction has

ever been made previously in regards to the contents of the MB Archive,  i.e.

between the "purchased" contents and the "donated" contents. In any event,

the statement I quoted from, that was stamped upon the 1952 JK to AG letter

 I mentioned earlier today, surely also precludes the subsequent "donating"

of such material, so the point I was trying to make still stands -- the

presence of this class of material in the MB archive creates a  problematical

situation for the administrating of the collection. Again, quite apart from

any Sampas pressure. I don't think that's an unfair statement, is it?

 

Just to makes things even more clear, as regards to my confusion. This is a

quotation from the covering letter (dated 12 February, 1987) you sent to me

with the list of what you earlier today referred to as your "research

archive."

You wrote:

 

"This CATALOGUE (emphasis mine) is privileged information, and I ask that you

not pass it around. Anyone interested should deal directly with me."

 

I guess I took "catalogue" to mean a list of items for sale.

 

Also, in the matter of your attempts to place the archive in other

institutions, in a later letter, dated 3 May, 1987 you further wrote:

 

"It looks like I might be selling the whole lot to Jeffrey Weinberg of

Sudbury Mass -- I would rather have sold it to an institution or library, but

NONE (emphasis yours, actually!) of them could come up with even five

thousand bucks (though U of Texas had just spent seventeen MILLION on some

weird collection -- ,...."

 

 

 

As for your help, down through the years, yes of course you have been an

invaluable help in my occasional scholarly forays -- I have certainly never

denied this, or even diminished its importance. I hereby thank you publicly,

if that is what is required -- I know, however, that I thanked you privately

every step of the way. You know that my quarrels with you in the past month

or so, focus specifically on the issue of the JK archive, and whether you

represent a Kerouacian's best friend in this regard, or whether your

continued involvment in this issue isn't actually counter-productive. That's

all. I believe the latter. I know many others disagree. That's fine.

 

Again, I apologize for using "purchased" instead of "donated" in my post

earlier today.  My point -- I thought a very mild one, actually -- still

stands though Gerry.

 

CHEERS, Rod

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 14:27:15 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: to Kirby

 

R. Bentz Kirby wrote: . . .

>

> I am investigating assisting him on the Lowell matter and what can be

> done to preserve the tapes.  That is all so far.

>

> My point here was not to be threatening, but to make sure that people

> understand that you just can not make posts like this that imply he has

> done something wrong and has ilegally sold materials that were

> restricted, unless you are right.

>

 

Mr. Kirby,

 

Like others I am somewhat confused by your role in this.  Are you

1--trying to catch up on this matter and come to your own independant

judgement?

2--acting as a current or potential attorney for Mr. Nicosia?

3--trying to improve our collective debating habits from the vantage

point of your legal profession?

 

I am not in your business so can't  provide an expert prospective, but

if you looking at a lawyer client relationship with Nicosia are you

using the list to

1 research your case?

2 argue that case, the way attorney's try to use the media outside

trials?

 

I'm stumped.  It seems to me that if I thought I would be working on

this I would keep my mouth shut and my powder dry for court.  It feels

like what you are doing is pouring gasoline on a situation that looked

over the weekend to be cooling.  Mr Nicosia and Mr. Chaput were actually

talking about memories of Kerouac.  Real improvement I thought.  No

we're back to yelling and name calling.

 

Are we supposed to watch our posts because you might drag us into court?

 

I welcome anyone into any of these discussions, but I certainly didn't

anticipate that we needed someone to constantly insert their legal

function into the discussion.  Nobody asked for a court appointed

arbitor.  I don't think anyone wants to come to this list accompanied by

their lawyers.  Let's get back to talking about the beats.  If you are

here to talk about the beats, fine, join in.  If you are here as a

lawyer for some party on the list, my own personal wish is that you

dissapear and let us get back to what we used to do

 

We sometimes used to have little spats on this list, but nothing like

this Estate nightmare.  If another member disagrees with me I have no

intention of suing them.  Enough already.  My recollection is that

Gerery Nicosia brought this fight to this list.  Some of us apparantly

love it, some of us are sick of it (count me in the latter group.) But

nobody else has brought his or her lawyer.

 

J Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 23:22:01 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      SAMPAS WHO? Re: a calm request

In-Reply-To:  <199705260519.WAA07591@sweden.it.earthlink.net>

 

At 22.19 25/05/97 -0700, Gerry wrote:

>..., it has nothing to do with

>>his archieves, its a damn pissing contest/whose got the bigger balls and

>>the rest of the nonsense. Its pure bullshit. Get off your ego trip and

>>realize  THAT truth.

>>

>>

>>Lisa M. Rabey

>Dear Lisa,     May 25, 1997

>

>        I am here on the Beat-List only because of the need to preserve Jack

>Kerouac's archives.  It has turned into a pissing contest because that is

>what Mr. Chaput and Mr. Anstee wanted it to become.  They have effectively

>killed the discussion of what Sampas is doing with the archives and why, if

>he really intends to put them into a library, he has not signed even a

>statement of intention in 6 years.  They don't want me talking about things

>like that, so they call me names and accuse me of various crimes, and then I

>answer them back, etc. etc.

>        Well here's my deal, Lisa, I'll just quite answering their bullshit

>charges, and just keep posting the truth as I see it.  Maybe some day

>someone from "the other side" will appear to argue this thing out

>rationally, and give us some hard facts about what Mr. Sampas is doing and

>plans to do--rather than just calling me names and saying what a bad person

>I am.

>        By the way, Paul Maher's list from the NY Public Library shows that

>they do not own all the versions of even one Kerouac book (published or

>unpublished).  A scholar who analyzes a work needs everything from the first

>notes thru first second and third drafts, and then the galleys.  Kerouac

>typed several versions of every published book.  The NY Public has acquired

>only early notebook drafts of some individual books, and they have not even

>one complete version of Kerouac's seven most important books: ON THE ROAD,

>THE DHARMA BUMS, DR. SAX, VISIONS OF GERARD, VISIONS OF CODY, VANITY OF

>DULUOZ, and DESOLATION ANGELS.

>        This is what we should be talking about.

>        Best, Gerry Nicosia

>

>

i think that Gerry, il mio paesano Gerry, is right/

why i am writing about this matter? i have under my nose

the "Rolling Stone" issue 759 may 1,1997 pag.58 & by

pure coincidence there is an ad like this:

 

You haven't

heard Jack yet.

 

Kerouac

kicks joy darkness

 

with performances by

 

        Morfine

        Lydia Lunch

        Michael Stipe

        Steven Tyler

        Hunter S. Thompson

        Maggie Estep

        & the Spitters

        Richard Kewis

        Lawrence Ferlinghetti

                &Helium

        Jack Kerouac

        & Joe Strummer

        Allen Ginsberg

        Eddie Vedder,

        Campbell 2000

                & Sadie 7

        William Burroughs

        & tomandandy

        Juliana Hatfield

        John Cale

        Johnny Depp & Come

        Robert Hunter

        Lee Ranaldo

        & Dana Colley

        Anna Domino

        Rob Buck & Danny Chauvin

                as Hitchhiker

        Patti Smith

        with Thurston Moore

                & Lenny Kaye

        Warren Zevon

        & Michael Wolff

        Jim Carroll with

        Lee Ranaldo, Lenny Kaye

                & Anton Sanco

        Matt Dillon

        with Joey Altruda

        Inger Lorre & Jeff Buckley

        Eric Andersen

 

        In stores April 8th

 

        Produced by Jim Sampas

        Associate Producer: Lee Ranaldo

 

my question is Sampas mentioned above is

that Sampas who Nicosia is referring in his

posts? by way of this Sampas i immediatley got

a negative feedback (like a pavlov dog) to such

a work despite the excellent pedigree of performers

how much money is rolling out ?

the works of Jack Kerouac who

is universal maybe free to the people not (c)

or other e.g. can the pope damage the "Cappella

Sistina" ? he is the owner can the concil town of

Rome destroy the "Fontana di Trevi" ? he is the

owner BUT everyone know that this works of the

human mankind are really NOT owner of a single

person i hope,

 

i miei piu' cari saluti a tutti,

yrs Rinaldo Rasa.

* hi! guardate che scrivo dall'Italia, da un altro mondo! *

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 17:37:41 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: "Purchased" versus "Donated"

 

You know, Rod, I for one am extremely uncomfortable that you're using private

letters between you and Nicosia to try to bolster some argument that doesn't

have a thing to do with THE KEROUAC ARCHIVES which is the main issue here.

 Bentz is right.  A person of honor would not do such a thing!

 

You know, Rod, Gerry Nicosia is the ONLY PERSON IN THE WORLD trying to do

anything about Kerouac's Archive.  As a person who says he cares about such

things I really don't see why you feel it is necessary to blast him publicly

every chance you get, often in some very shady ways.

 

 

Jerry Cimino

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 14:46:35 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Post on Archives

 

                                        May 26, 1997

 

Paul Maher writes:

        "I was under the impression that it [the woman from Connecticut] was

Bernice Lemire."

 

        Nice try, Paul.  No, Bernice lives in Boston.  The reason her thesis

is not available is that someone stole it out of the Boston College archive.

Luckily I obtained a (legal) copy of it and put the copy in my archive.

Now, if only my archive were open, you could go over there and use it.

 

                           --  Gerry "blight to academia" Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 17:50:51 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Letter to Mayo

 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------A826D122C50600B0BA35406D

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

This is the letter to Mayo.  I intend to mail it tomorrow.

 

I am doing this as a fan.

 

Peace,

 

If you have a better idea, let me know.

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

 

--------------A826D122C50600B0BA35406D

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="mayoltr.txt"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Content-Disposition: inline; filename="mayoltr.txt"

 

 

May 26, 1997

 

 

 

 

Martha Mayo

Special Collections Librarian

University of Massachusetts, Lowell

The Mogan Center

40 French Street

Lowell, MA 01854

 

RE: Kerouac Letters from Columbia University Archives

Subject: Gerry Nicosia Archives

 

Dear Ms Mayo:

 

I am a long time fan of Jack Kerouac.  Some weeks ago, an Internet friend of

 mine suggested that I join the beat mail list.  I finally did and was quite

 surprised at what I found.  One of the main themes seems to be a Sampas vs

 Nicosia situation.  There are included as three posts from the Internet/www

 mail list, one from Rod Anstee and two of my replies.  These posts will likely

 mean little to you, as these things are out of context and more important to

 the ones involved.

 

However there is one thing that you can clarify.  Mr. Anstee says to Mr. Nicosia

 that "In a way I am quite surprised, in retrospect, that Martha Mayo agreed to

 purchase these in the first place, knowing that many of them (originals) are

 the property of other libraries."  He goes on to then state that Gerry Nicosia

 sold to your library a photocopy of a letter from Jack Kerouac to Allen

 Ginsberg dated April 8, 1952 even though it has the instructions on it that the

 copy is to be returned to Columbia University.

 

It is my understanding that we are not allowed to view the collection or hear

 the recordings deposited there.  Therefore, I am writing to you to inquire

 whether the items purchased by your library do in fact include this letter and

 other such items, that belong to other Universities and are marked in such a

 fashion.  If so, can you tell me what letters are so marked and whether or not

 the sale and purchase is in fact legal, illegal, questionable or what.

 

I am going to post a copy of this letter to the mail list.  If you do write in

 reply, please do so with the understanding that any reply will be posted as

 well.  And, if you will not reply, please tell me how I can confirm whether or

 not this is in fact true.

 

Thank you and with kind personal regards, I am

 

Sincerely,

 

 

 

Bentz Kirby

 

cc:     Beat-L@cunyvm.cuny.edu

 

 

--------------A826D122C50600B0BA35406D--

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 15:15:50 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: "Purchased" versus "Donated"

 

....  In any event, the statement I quoted from, that was stamped upon the

1952 JK to AG letter

> I mentioned earlier today, surely also precludes the subsequent "donating"

>of such material, so the point I was trying to make still stands -- the

>presence of this class of material in the MB archive creates a  problematical

>situation for the administrating of the collection....

>

>Also, in the matter of your attempts to place the archive in other

>institutions, in a later letter, dated 3 May, 1987 you further wrote:

>

>"It looks like I might be selling the whole lot to Jeffrey Weinberg of

>Sudbury Mass -- I would rather have sold it to an institution or library, but

>NONE (emphasis yours, actually!) of them could come up with even five

>thousand bucks (though U of Texas had just spent seventeen MILLION on some

>weird collection -- ,...."

>

>CHEERS, Rod

>

Dear Rod,

 

        Have you no shame?  I just get done posting the fact that none of

the Kerouac to Ginsberg letters, legally xeroxed from Columbia, have found

their way into the MEMORY BABE archive at Lowell, and you turn around and

tell me again that it was illegal for me to sell or donate them to U Mass,

Lowell.

        I didn't SELL OR DONATE THEM TO LOWELL.  I DIDN'T PUT THEM IN LOWELL

AT ALL.  DO YOU FINALLY GET IT???  Or are you going to make five more posts

telling me I shouldn't have put them in Lowell?

        OK, now you start quoting my private letters to you.  I figured that

would come sooner or later.  I'm not going to match you by quoting yours.

        Let me just say, it was still a lie for you to say no one wanted my

archive.  In fact, every library I talked to wanted them; but in those days

nobody had much money to purchase them.

        In fact, I did not like the idea of selling the archive to Weinberg,

since he would give me no guarantee about keeping the archive together, SO I

WORKED HARD TO MAKE A LIBRARY DEAL HAPPEN.  I wrote and called Paul Marion

several times, to see if we could get U Mass Lowell to come up with a

modicum of money; and I gave Lowell unusually generous terms, letting them

spread the payments over three years, with no interest charged, in order to

make the deal possible.

        For shame, Rod!  Quit these attacks on me!  You know why you're

doing it, and everybody else knows too.  You want to set me on fire so

people stop asking what Sampas is doing with the Kerouac archive.

        CUT THE BULLSHIT!

                                                Best always, Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 18:20:17 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      second try,

 

The text file did not work, so I will try html.  Sorry to duplicate this

post.  Personally, I am tried of the whole thing and intend to drop my

end of thread.   I wait to see what Lowell says.

 

Peace,

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 17:35:08 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         John Mitchell <mitchell@AUGSBURG.EDU>

Subject:      Litigation Theology

 

The problem with lawyers is not that they stink, it's that they come so

highly and peculiarly perfumed (& not, from the word GO, with Corso's

gasoline).

 

That's just MO(loch).

 

Thanks, but asking a lawyer to clarify his/her role in anything is like

asking the Devil in all his/her glory and/or God in all his/her mercy to

speak, given either's thousand tongues, some of them split, others twisted

around their own feet.

 

That's just my theory of Litigation Theology.

 

Rertospectively yrs.,

John M.

Be cool.  And if you cain't be cool, don't drool.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 18:36:18 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Re: Litigation Theology

 

John Mitchell wrote:

 

> The problem with lawyers is not that they stink, it's that they come

> so

> highly and peculiarly perfumed (& not, from the word GO, with Corso's

> gasoline).

>

> That's just MO(loch).

>

> Thanks, but asking a lawyer to clarify his/her role in anything is

> like

> asking the Devil in all his/her glory and/or God in all his/her mercy

> to

> speak, given either's thousand tongues, some of them split, others

> twisted

> around their own feet.

>

> That's just my theory of Litigation Theology.

>

> Rertospectively yrs.,

> John M.

> Be cool.  And if you cain't be cool, don't drool.

 

 ROTFLMAO, even it is aimed at me.  Good post John.  By the way, were

you kin to John R.  ;-)

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 18:38:53 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Lawyers

 

I heard a Spanish proverb which I told my children yesterday:

 

It is better to be a mouse in the mouth of a cat, than a man in a

lawyer's hands.

 

So true, but yet, what about in the hands of a used car salesman, or a

vinyl siding salesman, or well, whatever.

 

First thing let's do, is kill all the lawyers.  Paraphrase of William

Shakespear.

 

Peace,

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 18:44:10 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject:      A Note to the Peacekeepers

 

Folks, I'm embarrassed for you.  How can you keep silent allowing Anstee as

well as Paul Maher to say the things they're saying about Nicosia?

 

It's one thing to want to see peace on the list.  That's fine if that's what

you really want, but these guys are tossing everything but the kitchen sink

at Nicosia and you sit silent! You should be flooding the list with notes to

Anstee telling him how off base he is to bring private correspondance in to

this!

 

Every person on this list is being party to keeping this thread alive by

allowing Anstee to get away unscathed with these ridiculous assertions.  I

think Gerry has done remarkably well in maintaining his cool especially in

light of Paul Maher's vitriolic posts.

 

Right is right, people, regardless of what you may think about Nicosia or

"his cause".

 

Inaction is as much of a statement as action is.

 

 

Jerry Cimino

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 15:53:54 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Why We Shouldn't Study Kerouac

 

                                                        May 26, 1997

To all the good and friendly folks on the Beat-List:

        (the rest can kiss me ass)

        Has anyone noticed how, within a few weeks, the debate has been

switched from why we SHOULD be able to study Jack Kerouac (making his

archive of papers available at a library, etc.) to WHY WE SHOULDN'T BE ABLE

TO STUDY JACK KEROUAC?  No one has been popping at Sampas for selling off

hundreds of pieces of Jack Kerouac's unique literary archive.  Instead, they

have been popping at me for putting my own scholarly archive, the MEMORY

BABE archive, on deposit at U Mass, Lowell, to help people study Jack

Kerouac's life and works.

        I.e., I'm the bad guy because I tried to make my huge body of

scholarly research materials available to other writers and students.  The

very thing I am asking Sampas to do is now an evil thing.

        Have I walked thru the Looking Glass?  Is Rod Anstee the Mad Hatter?

Hey, what's going on here, folks?

        Is it an accident that we're now debating if Nicosia broke the law

by putting his archive in a library, instead of asking if Sampas has a moral

right to destroy the integrity of Jack Kerouac's archive?  I don't think

it's an accident--not by a long shot.  It's serving someone's purpose.

Doesn't take a genius to figure out whose.

        I used to think pro basketball was a hot sport till I got into the

business of trying to save the Kerouac Archive.  In the space of four weeks

here I've been accused of breaking the law by both Phil Chaput and Rod

Anstee--neither of whom has produced a shred of evidence to substantiate

their charges. Mr. Anstee has even had to INVENT EVIDENCE, claiming I sold

letters xeroxed from Columbia University (which could not legally be resold)

to Lowell, when I NEITHER SOLD NOR DONATED THOSE LETTERS TO LOWELL.  I NEVER

PUT THEM IN LOWELL AT ALL.  PERIOD.

        I have also been called every name in the book--the last set of

volleys comes from Paul Maher, Jr., another Sampas apologist,  whose claim

to fame is to have stolen fifty rare books on the raising of silk worms from

the Mogan Center, the same building leased by U Mass, Lowell, from which key

parts of the MEMORY BABE archive were also stolen.

        Mr. Chaput tells me to "fuck myself" (a pleasant experience

according to Lenny Bruce), and Mr. Maher calls me "a scourge upon serious

Kerouac scholarship" and "a blight to academia" and "a fly on a mountain of

shit."  Coming from those two, I guess I should figure I've been complimented.

        All these folks stand to gain something from Mr. Sampas.

        Maher needs material for his new Kerouac Quarterly, and from all

appearances, Sampas has been giving it to him.

        Anstee already purchased major items from the Kerouac Archive for

his private collection, which have gone up tremendously in value, and he

would doubtless like to purchase some more.  He would also like to keep me

from proving Gabrielle Kerouac's will a forgery, because that would force

him to surrender the Kerouac items he purchased at fairly steep

prices--since if the will was no good, then John Sampas would have sold

those things without a clear title to them.

        Chaput is connected with Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!--a committee

partly financed by John Sampas, and which, from what I hear, takes its

directions almost exclusively from Sampas.  Does Phil get paid for his work

for LCK!, or does he just get the percs of meeting famous people and getting

to act important?  I don't know, but you can bet he's getting something out

of posting information here that is spoon-fed to him by Sampas.

        Chaput got almost everything he put up here from Sampas, including

the figures from Jan Kerouac's income tax returns, which could only have

come from Sterling Lord, Mr. Sampas's and Ms. Kerouac's joint agent (unless

Sampas has a mole inside the IRS).  But CHAPUT WAS TOO COWARDLY TO ANSWER MY

QUESTION ABOUT THE SOURCE OF THOSE INCOME TAX RETURNS, BECAUSE IT EITHER

MEANT THAT MR. SAMPAS HAD GOTTEN THEM ILLEGALLY OR ELSE STERLING LORD

(SAMPAS'S AGENT) HAD BREACHED HIS FIDUCIARY DUTY TO JAN KEROUAC BY RELEASING

THEM.  C'mon, Phil, c'mon out of hiding.  Who gave you Jan's income tax

forms?  Mr. Sampas or Mr. Lord?  Which one of them is in trouble?

        What?  Your tongue tied for a change?

        Good folks, I'm really tired of all this bullshit.  I plan one more

post, later today, to expose the absolutely FALSE CLAIM that the Jack

Kerouac Archive is in the New York Public Library already.

        Then I'm taking off for a while.

        There are some good people here who can stick up for the

truth--Jerry Cimino, Joe Grant, and Bentz Kirby among others.  I need a

break to get back to my real work--writing books, and advocating for the

right to study Jack Kerouac's papers, in court, which is the only place such

advocacy will really count.

        By the way, I've been accused of hiring these folks as "mouthpieces"

for me.  I've never met either Grant or Kirby.  Jerry I met only twice, once

when he asked me to come down to his bookstore in Monterey to lecture about

Kerouac, and the other time for a few seconds in Washington Square Park in

New York, when I gave him a free ticket to the Beat Conference Town Hall

Concert.

        If they're supporting me, they're doing it from conscience, since I

sure don't have any money left (after 10 months of double litigation) to pay

them.

        Best always, Gerry Nicosia

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Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 19:10:08 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: A Note to the Peacekeepers

 

At 06:44 PM 5/26/97 -0400, Jerry wrote:

 

>Inaction is as much of a statement as action is.

 

Hmm, I've been holding off from getting off this list

for a couple daze now, due to the lack of interesting

discussion (not saying the Estate/Archive thread isn't

interesting, just seems to be more hot air than anything

relevant).  Now, we are being accused of not speaking

up/sticking up enuff for members on this list.  I find this

quite interesting, considering I don't see any innocent

parties in this debate - why should I get "scolded" by

another list member for keeping my peace?  Chances 'r',

if we did open up, we'd get attacked, yelled at, faces

rubbed in shit, etc.  If I choose to not partake in this

insanity, please respect that decision.

 

>Every person on this list is being party to keeping

>this thread alive by allowing Anstee to get away unscathed

>with these ridiculous assertions.

 

Insects may sing -

But the Emmet in silence

Shows us his arse!

 

~Issa~

 

Hey Jerry, no hard feelings just my honest opinion.

 

Mike

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Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 17:19:07 CDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Wes Lundburg <wlundburg@MAIL.FF.CC.MN.US>

Subject:      Re: To the Peacemakers...

 

Jerry wrote:

 

>

>Folks, I'm embarrassed for you.  How can you keep silent allowing Anstee as

>well as Paul Maher to say the things they're saying about Nicosia?

>

>It's one thing to want to see peace on the list.  That's fine if that's what

>you really want, but these guys are tossing everything but the kitchen sink

>at Nicosia and you sit silent! You should be flooding the list with notes to

>Anstee telling him how off base he is to bring private correspondance in to

>this!

>

>Every person on this list is being party to keeping this thread alive by

>allowing Anstee to get away unscathed with these ridiculous assertions.  I

>think Gerry has done remarkably well in maintaining his cool especially in

>light of Paul Maher's vitriolic posts.

>

>Right is right, people, regardless of what you may think about Nicosia or

>"his cause".

>

>Inaction is as much of a statement as action is.

>

 

 

Hello, Jerry!  Well, I'll tell you what: there's a reason I never post anything

to Rod Anstee.  I still remember the crap he threw at Ron Whitehead (not to

mention others).  He's a man with his own agenda, and he does what strikes his

fancy... whether anybody "puts up with it" or not.  Silence is not being party

to him.  So, since my inaction is a statement, let the statement be I won't be a

party to any of it, nor will I let someone like Anstee dictate any of my actions

or reactions.  As I posted in an open letter to Gerry Nicosia, I believe he's

made his point, and made it well.  The other guys are just making asses out of

themselves... my impression is that they like to make asses of themselves.

 

Why should I waste my time posting to them?  It won't change anything they do.

Only reasonable people listen to reasonable voices.

 

All the best, ---Wes

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Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 19:47:55 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Alfred Lewen <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: A Note to the Peacekeepers

 

At 06:44 PM 5/26/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Folks, I'm embarrassed for you.  How can you keep silent allowing Anstee as

>well as Paul Maher to say the things they're saying about Nicosia?

>

>It's one thing to want to see peace on the list.  That's fine if that's what

>you really want, but these guys are tossing everything but the kitchen sink

>at Nicosia and you sit silent! You should be flooding the list with notes to

>Anstee telling him how off base he is to bring private correspondance in to

>this!

>

>Every person on this list is being party to keeping this thread alive by

>allowing Anstee to get away unscathed with these ridiculous assertions.  I

>think Gerry has done remarkably well in maintaining his cool especially in

>light of Paul Maher's vitriolic posts.

>

>Right is right, people, regardless of what you may think about Nicosia or

>"his cause".

>

>Inaction is as much of a statement as action is.

>

>

>Jerry Cimino

>

 

  Cimino, It is one post I made that was "vitriolic" in tone and that is

because I am sick of Nicosia bringing my name into things. I refuse to let

this happen. I, unlike you or anybody else seek no support for my cause. I

have no interest whatsoever in winning over anybody but when Nicosia drags

my name over and over I will be more than "vitriolic." It is none the less

deserving. You doubt my veracity? You don't even know John Sampas or the

strategy of his archival practices. Why do you have to take sides if that is

what we are supposed to do?

Why don't you try thanking me for placing an ad in my quarterly without pay?

Your posts won't win you any support, only a lost customer base.....

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Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 19:32:54 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: A Note to the Peacekeepers

 

Mike, no hard feelings at all.  And I appreciate your honest opinion.  And

normally I'd say not speaking up and not taking a position is fine.  But when

people say things like what Maher said and when people assert things like

Anstee has done it is up to the rest of us to say "you've crossed the line".

 

I'm not asking you to stand up and say Nicosia is right, just that many of

his detractors are off base in what they're saying and the way they're saying

it.

 

Mike, If I were to say to you the things that have been said to Nicosia by

his "detractors" I would expect the good people on this list to call me to

task for it.

 

Right is right.  Nicosia may have alienated a lot of people with the tone of

many of his responses, but he does not deserve to be slammed the way he has

been.  He's presented us with facts.  All he's been met with is rancor and

unproved assertions.

 

Mike, I respectfully submit to you not taking a position when someone is

obviously being slandered is taking a position.

 

 

Jerry C

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Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 20:00:19 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Alfred Lewen <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: Why We Shouldn't Study Kerouac

 

>        I have also been called every name in the book--the last set of

>volleys comes from Paul Maher, Jr., another Sampas apologist,  whose claim

>to fame is to have stolen fifty rare books on the raising of silk worms from

>the Mogan Center, the same building leased by U Mass, Lowell, from which key

>parts of the MEMORY BABE archive were also stolen.

 

I never sought fame Mr. Nicosia for my actions. That is in your warped mind.

I am remorseful and embarrassed about the thefts I committed seven years

ago. Your pathetic attempt to embarrass me into a response is successful.

But again, you reap what you sow. Your such a stupid creature. You wonder

why no one likes you over here. Your under the pretense that if you come

from Lowell you are somehow connected. John Sampas did not contribute

anything to my newsletter. The piece in question was contributed by the late

Jay Pendergast (by the way a true defintion of a scholar unlike my subject

matter here). I, unlike you, had to go through the proper channels (i.e.

John Sampas) to acquire permission to publish.

 

 

>

>        Maher needs material for his new Kerouac Quarterly, and from all

>appearances, Sampas has been giving it to him.

 

******I need nothing for my newsletter. I have enough material for the next

four issues all from several submissions worldwide. Again, you are wrong.

 

 

>        Good folks, I'm really tired of all this bullshit.  I plan one more

>post, later today, to expose the absolutely FALSE CLAIM that the Jack

>Kerouac Archive is in the New York Public Library already.

 

******Good luck proving that because my info was xeroxed from NYPL stationery.

 

>        Then I'm taking off for a while.

>        There are some good people here who can stick up for the

>truth--Jerry Cimino, Joe Grant, and Bentz Kirby among others.

 

********Ah yes, your loyal following, how long will it take before you burn

those bridges?

 

 I think I will have John Sampas autograph my copy of Memory Babe.....

 

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 19:57:24 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: To the Peacemakers...

 

Wes Lunburg wrote:

 

>Why should I waste my time posting to them.  It won't change anything they

do.

>Only reasonable people listen to reasonable voices.

 

 

Hi Wes,

 

Thanks for your candid response.

 

Wes, it's precisely *because* so many people are weighing the various

psoitions and gauging who is "right" and who is "wrong" that those of us who

know Rod would argue with a pineapple if it sat still long enough need to

make clear what is really going on.

 

Many people, especially if they're new to the list, read Rod's posts and

think "here is a serious person making a serious charge" and they see a

handful of people slugging it out and figure "each side is as bad as the

other only worse".  And when everyone keeps silent because no one wants to

"take a position" these insidious wars go on and on because people like Gerry

think no one is hearing them or believing them because no one is responding

at all.

 

I think if everybody on this list posted a note to Rod saying "Enough with

the ridiculous charges!  Show evidence or keep quiet" maybe he'd think twice.

 But what do we get instead?  "Let's not talk about it."  "This makes me

uncomfortable."  "Take your little wars off-list, boys".  And what is the

result of that?  Anstee has effectively silenced Nicosia which is exactly

what he wants.  And everyone of us on the list has helped him do it by not

challenging him.

 

That's why we should call him on the cheap shots and the non-issues.  Because

silence is a co-conspirator to the truth!

 

 

Jerry Cimino

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Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 17:02:30 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Not ashamed

 

Jerry

 

I am getting tired of the theme that if we don't all rush to poor Mr.

Nicosia's defense we are sort of like silent good Germans.  You and

Nicosia seem to be in a minority that feel that this whole thing is a

one way street.  Go back and look through the thread, I will turn on my

machine and there are another seven or eight posts from GN. After days

of silence, not doubt getting tired of listening to Nicosia's paranoid

view of the world, eventually an Anastee, Chaput or Maher will respond,

(sometimes not very temperatly, but there have been some very

informative posts as well). Then GN will start again with his assertion

that everyone in the Kerouac world but himself is a weak, excuse-making

pawn of John Sampas, hiding their own self interest.  As far as I can

remember this list includes Allan Ginsberg, Ann Charters, most of the

people in Lowell and pretty much everyone else but Mr. Nicosia and

before her death Jan Kerouac.  Mr. Nicosia, of course, has no self

interest. Then you and Mr. Kirby wonder why not everyone is rushing to

poor Mr. Nicosia's defense.  Seems to me he does fine on his own.

 

There seem to me to be a few clear points

 

1.  All the principles in this war have a serious interest in and love

for Jacks work

 

2.  They see things differently

 

3  This thing will be settled in the courts and not here.

 

I am not ashamed of myself.  I think the list members have on the whole

been very  polite and deferential to Gerry.  We have begged for him to

contribute to real discussions of Kerouac, we have praised him for his

effort on Memory Babe.  But that doesn't mean we all are ready to join

his crusade or that we share his view of his opponents.  I will go back

to the good habit I lost of just deleting anything on this thread.  I

know that whatever happens you and Attorney-at Law Kirby, Esq will be on

hand to genuflect and hold Gerry's coat.  I don't think my mortal soul

is in danger on this count, and if somewhere in Lowell there is a bar

with a dartboard with GN's face on it, I would find it  pretty easy to

understand.  But if the kitchen sink comes into play I trust someone

will backchannel me so I won't miss it.

 

J Stauffer

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Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 20:20:39 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Alfred Lewen <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: Paul Maher

 

At 04:42 PM 5/26/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Paul, I gotta tell ya buddy, you're showing your true colors with that last

>post of yours.  For a guy who three days ago said he'd had enough and even

>sent a message saying "unsubscribe" you sure have a whole lot to say about

>nothing.

>

>Paul, some of us were hoping to keep the *debate* at a reasonable level

>during the cease fire of the Memorial Day weekend.  Obviously you don't want

>to do your part as evidenced by the general nastiness of your tone.

> "Scholar?"  Paul, I hardly think so given the level to which you have sunk

>here.

 

****Whatever, your assessment of my scholarship matters nothing to me. I

hardly think that you are going to be on my Master's thesis committee.

>

>Say something useful, Paul, instead of general namecalling!  I asked you a

>week ago why you thought Gabrielle's signature was real as opposed to faked

>since you're one of the few people on the list to have actually seen the

>will.  Why can't you answer questions put to you?

Because I am not required to.

 

I have seen the will yes. I have also seen many documents (contracts for

foreign publication rights etc. signed by Gabrielle Kerouac in the early

1970's)signed after the will which are almost 100% the same. The only slight

change is the way

the "c" at the end of Kerouac trails off. This is given to her invalid

state. On this alone I came to my conclusion. There were other documents

that sealed my decision that the will/forgery claim is a fraud. For

instance, what made the signature look funny to Ms. Jan Kerouac anyways?

What is so funny about the way an old woman who suffered a stroke signs her

name? Were they humoring her disability? I mean...my grandmother writes me

letters and the sig looks a little shaky but I have no reason to believe

it's "funny." You are all sorely misled and someday the shadiness of the

situation will brighten and the real "true colors" will be revealed. And by

the way I came back on the list to post about my friend Jay Pendergast's

death who knew Jack in the 1960's.. Don't flatter yourself thinking I wanted

to respond to you.  Signed vitriolicly, Paul...

 

>Jerry Cimino

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 17:07:34 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      New York Public Library (final post, this time I mean it)

 

To all the good and friendly folks on the Beat-List:

 

        My final post; I'm turning in my bullshit shovel.

        But I want to clear up this lingering myth--or more accurately,

cruel hoax--about the Kerouac Archive being in the New York Public Library.

        I work from the List printed by Paul Maher, which purports to be the

latest list of the New York Public Library's Kerouac holdings (I have a list

given me by NYPL librarian Rodney Phillips two years ago, which has only a

few less things on it).  Not much has changed in two years.

        Let's start by getting one thing straight: A COLLECTION IS NOT AN

ARCHIVE, and vice versa.

        The New York Public Library has a Kerouac/Beat collection, which

they have been building for years, by buying items from many different

people, including many dealers.

        Univ. of Texas, Austin, the Bancroft Library (Berkeley), and

Stanford, among others, also have Kerouac/Beat collections.

        Even Rod Anstee has a Kerouac/Beat collection.  From what I have

seen, having visited his house, Mr. Anstee's collection is bigger in sheer

bulk than the Kerouac collection at the New York Public Library.  Jan

Kerouac and I had a private session at the NYPL, had the whole Kerouac

collection thrust out on a desk before us, and it didn't take up much space.

        What are Jack Kerouac's ten most important published books?

        I'm a Kerouac biographer, so let me take a stab at this.  I

nominate, in no particular order:

        1) ON THE ROAD

        2) THE DHARMA BUMS

        3) DR. SAX

        4) THE SUBTERRANEANS

        5) VISIONS OF GERARD

        6) VISIONS OF CODY

        7) VANITY OF DULUOZ

        8) BIG SUR

        9) DESOLATION ANGELS

        10) MEXICO CITY BLUES

 

        What does the New York Public Library have of each of these?

        1) ON THE ROAD was typed on a long scroll of Japanese art paper.  It

was retyped several times, with major revisions.  It was worked over in

galleys.  THE NEW YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY OWNS NONE OF THIS MATERIAL, AND HAS

NEVER MADE ANY OF THIS MATERIAL AVAILABLE FOR STUDY.

        2) THE DHARMA BUMS was typed on a scroll of teletype paper, retyped

several times, reworked, and worked over extensively in galleys.  THE NEW

YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY OWNS NONE OF THIS MATERIAL, AND HAS NEVER MADE ANY OF

THIS MATERIAL AVAILABLE FOR STUDY.

        3) DR. SAX was written in pencil notebooks; it was typed up; it was

worked over editorially by Malcolm Cowley; there are presumably also galleys

for it.  THE NEW YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY OWNS NONE OF THIS MATERIAL, AND HAS

NEVER MADE ANY OF THIS MATERIAL AVAILABLE FOR STUDY.  They do list the

presence of some "notes for Dr. Sax" in their collection.

        4) THE SUBTERRANEANS WAS TYPED ON A ROLL OF TELETYPE PAPER, RETYPED

ON REGULAR PAGES (which Jeffrey Weinberg saw, and says they are

"crumbling"), and revised extensively in galleys to prevent libel suits from

Alene Lee (Mardou Fox).  THE NEW YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY OWNS NONE OF THIS

MATERIAL, AND HAS NEVER MADE ANY OF THIS MATERIAL AVAILABLE FOR STUDY.

        5) VISIONS OF GERARD WAS WRITTEN IN PENCIL NOTEBOOKS AND RETYPED ON

TO REGULAR PAGES.  I assume there were galleys but don't know about the

amount of revision.  Suspect less revision because Kerouac considered this a

"holy book."  THE NEW YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY OWNS NONE OF THIS MATERIAL, AND

HAS NEVER MADE ANY OF THIS MATERIAL AVAILABLE FOR STUDY.

        6) VISIONS OF CODY was written in pencil notebooks and also sections

of it were typed.  Some of it was drafted in letters Kerouac wrote to his

friends (like the letter to John Clellon Holmes which Mr. Anstee purchased

for his own collection).  It was retyped several times, as the work

underwent the editorial scrutiny of a number of people: Carl Solomon, Allen

Ginsberg, Malcolm Cowley, et al.  THE NEW YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY OWNS NONE OF

THIS MATERIAL, AND HAS NEVER MADE ANY OF THIS MATERIAL AVAILABLE FOR STUDY.

        7) VANITY OF DULUOZ was typed on a scroll of teletype paper and then

retyped on to regular pages.  Kerouac incorporated many of his earlier

unpublished writings and breastpocket notebook passages into the text.  I do

not know the extent of editorial changes.  One would assume there were, at

the very least, marked galley proofs.  THE NEW YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY OWNS NONE

OF THIS MATERIAL, AND HAS NEVER MADE ANY OF THIS MATERIAL AVAILABLE FOR STUDY.

        8) BIG SUR was typed on a scroll of teletype paper and then retyped

on to regular pages.  Kerouac used many breastpocket notebooks for material,

which he incorporated into the text.  I assume there were at least marked

galleys.  THE NEW YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY OWNS NONE OF THIS MATERIAL, AND HAS

NEVER MADE ANY OF THIS MATERIAL AVAILABLE FOR STUDY.

        9) DESOLATION ANGELS was both written in notebooks and typed over a

period of several years.  It was then retyped on to regular paper.  Extent

of editorial changes unknown.  One assumes marked galleys.  THE NEW YORK

PUBLIC LIBRARY HAS THE NOTEBOOKS TO SECTION 2, "PASSING THROUGH," WHICH IS

ONLY ABOUT ONE-THIRD OF THE ENTIRE TEXT.  IT HAS NO ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT FOR

THE REMAINING TWO-THIRDS OF THE TEXT, AND NO RETYPED PAGES FOR ANY OF THE

TEXT.  NO GALLEYS.  THE PENCIL NOTEBOOKS FOR SECTION 2 ARE AVAILABLE FOR STUDY.

        10) MEXICO CITY BLUES was written in pencil notebooks and later

retyped.  There was doubtless more than one typescript, as this manuscript

circulated among many different writers in both California and New York.

There were certainly marked galleys, as this was a tough book to type-set

with lots of neologisms and weird typography.  THE NEW YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY

OWNS THE PENCIL NOTEBOOKS AND ONE TYPESCRIPT.  THEY DO NOT HAVE ALL THE

TYPESCRIPTS, AND THEY DO NOT HAVE THE GALLEYS.  THE NOTEBOOKS AND

TYPESCRIPTS THEY HAVE ARE AVAILABLE FOR STUDY.

 

        So, the New York Public Library lacks any paper trail for 8 of

Kerouac's 10 most important published books; it has a very incomplete paper

trail for the 9th book; and a somewhat better (but by no means complete)

paper trail for the 10th.  And if the MEXICO CITY BLUES manuscript is the

completest, it is rather curious to thank Mr. Sampas for it, since he was

preparing to sell it to a private collector (according to Jeffrey Weinberg)

and--though Weinberg is not completely sure--probably did sell it to a

private collector, before it was resold to the NYPL.

 

        WHAT ABOUT MAGGIE CASSIDY?  A FINE NOVEL, IF NOT AMONG THE GREATS.

THE NEW YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY HAS ONLY 45 pages in pencil, an UNUSED SECTION

OF MANUSCRIPT.  IT HAS NO PARTS OF THE ACTUAL MANUSCRIPT, NOR THE RETYPED

VERSION, NOR THE GALLEYS.

        The NEW YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY also has NO TRACE AT ALL OF MANY OF

KEROUAC'S VERY IMPORTANT UNPUBLISHED BOOKS: THE SEA IS MY BROTHER, AND THE

HIPPOS WERE BOILED IN THEIR TANKS!, MEMORY BABE, SECRET MULLINGS OF BILL,

VISIONS OF LUCIEN, AND AN UNTITLED NOVEL ABOUT NICKY'S BAR IN LOWELL, etc.

        IT HAS NO TRACE OFMANUSCRIPT FOR MANY OF KEROUAC'S IMPORTANT

ARTICLES: THE ORIGINS OF THE BEAT GENERATION; CITYCitycity; THE ESCAPADE

MAGAZINE PIECES, ETC.

        It has a lot of Kerouac's correspondence with the Sampas family and

a few other letters (MANY OF WHICH ARE XEROXED COPIES, ACCORDING TO THE LIST

LIBRARIAN RODNEY PHILLIPS GAVE ME), but almost none of Kerouac's

correspondence (carbon copies and drafts of his own letters, and letters

sent him) from the HUNDREDS OF IMPORTANT WRITERS AND ARTISTS WITH WHOM

KEROUAC CORRESPONDED.

        IT DOES NOT HAVE THE HUNDREDS OF FIVE-CENT BREAST-POCKET NOTEBOOKS

HE CARRIED IN HIS SHIRT EVERY DAY, TO "SKETCH" THE THINGS HE SAW AND HEARD

ON A DAILY BASIS, MOST OF WHICH NEVER FOUND THEIR WAY INTO ANY BOOK.

        IT HAS NONE OF HIS BOYHOOD SELF-PRINTED COMIC BOOKS AND NEWSPAPERS

AND OTHER JUVENILE WRITINGS.

        IT DOES NOT HAVE HIS SELF-CREATED HORSE RACE AND BASEBALL GAMES.

        IT HAS NONE OF HIS PHOTOGRAPHS.

        IT HAS NONE OF HIS MANY PAINTINGS AND DRAWINGS

        IT HAS NONE OF HIS PRIVATE SCRAPBOOKS OF NEWSPAPER CLIPPINGS,

CONCERNING HIS SPORTS HEROICS AND BOOK REVIEWS.

        IT HAS NONE OF HIS PERSONAL PAPERS, REPORT CARDS, JOB APPLICATIONS,

PASSPORTS, LAWSUIT PAPERS FOR CHILD SUPPORT, etc. etc.

        IT HAS NONE OF THE HUNDREDS OF HOURS OF TAPE RECORDINGS KEROUAC MADE.

        IT HAS NONE OF HIS PERSONAL BOOKS, HIS PRIVATE LIBRARY.

 

        You're going to tell me that the Jack Kerouac Archive is in the New

York Public Library???  Come again.

        Best always, Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 01:14:48 +0100

Reply-To:     or205@hermes.cam.ac.uk

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Olly Ruff <or205@HERMES.CAM.AC.UK>

Subject:      uneducated & illinformed quasi-estate-post

 

after watching several hundred estate postings go rolling by under the

delete-key, I finally submit one myself. It's a slippery slope, they

say... :

 

first of all, I like this thread, slanging matches & all. If nothing else,

it's probably better that these things are thrashed out in public if

they're going to be thrashed out at all. Moving it offlist wouldn't really

be true. I'm not a car crash voyeur, but I like hearing what people have

to say... relevant, polite, politic, political, friendly, supportive,

abusive, warmongering, inane, whatever. I've learned a lot from all those

various varieties.

 

also, I'm tending towards the Gerry Nicosia side, albeit from a totally

uneducated point of view. It's easy to get tied into a role in this kind

of discussion... so there's Jerry & Gerry & misc. vs Rod & Phil & whoever

and it really seems to get personal very easily, out of nobody's intention

& everybody's fault. Case in point being Paul M... side-issues become the

main deal & it's like being there while two opposing tables of lairily

drunk folks tilt slowly but inexorably towards a fairly inefficient

fistfight.

 

M'self, I think terms like "Sampas apologist" are a little too out

there... I'm not sure that anyone knows anything much about the *other

side* (tones of impending doom intended to be slightly ironic, before I

get pulverised) & further, I think it's a little too easy to identify with

your opinions until (point comin up soon, wait for it...) BY THIS POINT,

*EVERYONE* IS IN THE POSITION OF THINKING THEY'RE DEFENDING THEMSELVES

AGAINST SOME DEEPLY PERSONAL ATTACK...

 

I'm not trying to sound like a selfstyled diplomat. Honest. I want

everyone to keep speaking their minds... because that's the only way

anything gets resolved, in the long run. The fact that it may take about

twenty years this way is a minus, but perhaps endurable. It's entertaining

when people majorly abuse others personally, but that probably slows

things down as well...

 

Anyway, this'll do for now. Seriously, I think Gerry Nicosia is an

inestimable addition to the list, & things might be more mellow if

*everyone* just stopped escalating things by getting personal... (of

course, if anybody so much as raises an eyebrow at *anything* I've said in

this post I'll find out where you live & have your fucking legs broken...)

 

(nb. that was a joke)

 

Well, whatever. Keep going, everyone.

 

Olly Ruff.

 

_______________________________________________________________________________

 

"Survival of the... *fittest* ? Was that the proper word ? Had Darwin ever

considered the idea of *temporary* unfitness ? Like "temporary insanity."

Could the Doctor have made room in his theory for a thing like LSD ?"

_______________________________________________________________________________

 

                           or205@hermes.cam.ac.uk

                              skink@imrryr.org

_______________________________________________________________________________

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 17:18:11 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Musing

 

My archive is bigger than your archive

 

You show me your archive and I'll show you mine.

 

How may archivists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

(apparently a lot, and even more if the lightbulb is xeroxed, and yet

more if there is a lawyer present)

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 20:40:47 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Alfred Lewen <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: New York Public Library (final post, this time I mean it)

 

Frpm what I gathered, I never purported to type up a list of the Kerouac

archives...it was a list of the things the Estate has either given as a gift

or sold to the NYPL. Nicosia what's your point? Are you saying if it isn't

there it's sold? What if he had it in safe deposit in Lowell? What business

of it is yours or anybody's? It belongs to the family in principle and

legally. Even I, who longs to see it as much as anybody else can understand

that. And there is nothing xeroxed in there. Once again you are wrong.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 20:35:49 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Paul Maher

 

At 08:20 PM 5/26/97 -0400, Paul Maher wrote:

 

>I have seen the will yes. I have also seen many documents

>(contracts for foreign publication rights etc. signed by

>Gabrielle Kerouac in the early 1970's)signed after the will

>which are almost 100% the same. The only slight change is the

>way the "c" at the end of Kerouac trails off. This is given to her

>invalid state. On this alone I came to my conclusion. There

>were other documents that sealed my decision that the

>will/forgery claim is a fraud. For instance, what made the

>signature look funny to Ms. Jan Kerouac anyways?

 

Paul,

 

Hmm, if you are not a specialist in forensic science how can

you make this judgement w/o any empirical data?  This

goes for Jan's challenge as well.  I'm not sure if anyone has

looked at said signature, but by backing up your claim with

questioning Jan's expertise on this matter, I believe you've

discredited your own theory.  What makes your theory hold

water?  Is it that Gabrielle Kerouac was in an "invalid state?"

Sounds like hearsay to me.  Show me the $ Paul!!

 

Mike

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 20:38:33 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: Nick, uh, I mean Judith, uhh nick

In-Reply-To:  Message of Mon, 26 May 1997 10:49:33 -0400 from <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

 

Doesn't the notion of "fair use" only apply to published sources?

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 21:00:05 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Paul Maher <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: Paul Maher

 

>

>Hmm, if you are not a specialist in forensic science how can

>you make this judgement w/o any empirical data?  This

>goes for Jan's challenge as well.  I'm not sure if anyone has

>looked at said signature, but by backing up your claim with

>questioning Jan's expertise on this matter, I believe you've

>discredited your own theory.  What makes your theory hold

>water?  Is it that Gabrielle Kerouac was in an "invalid state?"

>Sounds like hearsay to me.  Show me the $ Paul!!

>

 

>Mike, i had meant that the will being compared to G. Kerouac's hand writ

specimen before her stroke is hardly proof or evidence. I never once said

mine was expert testimony. i was asked so I answered and made an opinion.

Take it for what it is worth. P.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 17:47:27 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         She-Ra <jennie42@ASU.EDU>

Subject:      questions about Jack's death

 

While reading Dharma Bums yesterday a good question happened into my

mind... Does anyone think that one of the forces contributing to Jack's

alcoholism and death was the internal conflict between his Buddhist and

Catholic beliefs?  I get the feeling that in his old (not really, but

lack of better word) age he was turning against all that he had done with

his life (shown in his dislike for the pranksters and such).. perhaps he

was feeling guilty, thus drank to lose feelings of guilt, and purposely

(as in leaving los vegas) drank himself to death? a slow suicide?  I'm

just wondering, perhaps someone can help me out with this one?

 

jennie

 

****** jennie42@asu.edu ******

 

#28     There is no sin-

        I know perfectly well

        where I am

                       -Jack Kerouac

 

WE ARE SEARCHING

FOR RATIONAL REASONS

FOR BELIEVING

IN THE ABSURD

     -Harold Norse (from the poem "Believing in the Absurd")

---------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 18:08:15 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Steve Smith a.k.a. Whiskey Wordsmith" <psu06729@ODIN.CC.PDX.EDU>

Subject:      Re: A Note to the Peacekeepers

In-Reply-To:  <970526184408_1955964541@emout09.mail.aol.com>

 

On Mon, 26 May 1997, Jerry Cimino wrote:

 

> Folks, I'm embarrassed for you.  How can you keep silent allowing Anstee as

> well as Paul Maher to say the things they're saying about Nicosia?

>

> It's one thing to want to see peace on the list.  That's fine if that's what

> you really want, but these guys are tossing everything but the kitchen sink

> at Nicosia and you sit silent! You should be flooding the list with notes to

> Anstee telling him how off base he is to bring private correspondance in to

> this!

>

> Every person on this list is being party to keeping this thread alive by

> all

owing Anstee to get away unscathed with these ridiculous assertions.  I

> think Gerry has done remarkably well in maintaining his cool especially in

> light of Paul Maher's vitriolic posts.

>

> Right is right, people, regardless of what you may think about Nicosia or

> "his cause".

>

> Inaction is as much of a statement as action is.

>

>

> Jerry Cimino

>

 

dear jerry and all: i applaud the above--but remember that not all have

been silent about such cheapjack shots at gerry; i posted yesterday (or

so) much the same--just got a couple of lame "Buuuuuuut" messages in

response. go ahead, in the spirit of levi and others, and "hold [nicosia]

to a higher standard" because he is a world-class k. scholar. this is,

btw, the gist of levi's post re: my anger at cheap shots gerry's way.

baloney, rancid baloney. nobody should be held to a higher standard than

anybody else, scholar or not. there's shit and then there's shit? nah,

just shit. it all has the same low barnyard whiff.

 

posting personal letters is waaaay out of line; yada yada yada--i'd like

to think jack and the twisted living ghost of bill b. will very soon loom

up out of the red darkness and rip the lungs out of the right (and wrong)

swine who scrunch down in the muddy shadows of the whole $$$$$ For

Kerouac Gig! and before some mutant includes nicosia as a $$$ For Kerouac

Guy, note that $7500 bucks ain't blood gravey in anyone's book. for

chrise rake, he was sellin' his own bio's archive--not peddling k's goods!

 

one day we'll all have to meet to drink bombs in a nether lowell or

tangiers--and the monsters will be sorted out and go directly to

shitholes in the deepest circles of dante's condo complex.

 

love and fuses,

 

steve

 

 

 

 

 

 

Steve R. Smith

Graduate Teaching Assistant

Department of English

Portland State University

Box 751 Portland, OR 97207

503-725-3556

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 21:12:34 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Re: SAMPAS WHO? Re: a calm request

 

rinaldo,

 

        First off, please don't be out off by the Sampas name on 'kicks joy

darkness'. the CD is well worth getting. Jim is the son of Stella's brother

Mike - john Sampas is his uncle.

 

        Antoine

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

     "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"

                        -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 21:20:00 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Not Ashamed/Musing

 

James,

 

I don't agree with a lot of what you say in your "not ashamed post" and I'm

glad YOU used the "Good German" analogy and not me as I don't want to be

acused of calling anyone a Nazi/"Adolph Hitler apologist" or anything else.

 And I laughed out loud w/regard to your lightbulb joke!

 

James, I'm not a Nicosia groupie and I certainly don't genuflect at his

alter.  Quite frankly I think Gerry is off base on certain things.  I wish he

wouldn't accuse everybody who's ever heard of John Sampas as being in bed

with him.  I think that's counter-productive and hurts his cause and

alienates people who could otherwise be his allies.

 

The point though, James, is Nicosia is inextricably intertwined with the

cause of Saving Jack's Archives.  You and many others obviously don't think

that is a good thing, but I do and Nicosia is the only person doing anything

about it.  He's leading the charge!  I don't see anybody else raising their

hand to do it.  I certainly couldn't do it even if I wanted to try.  And I

don't think there is one other person out there who could.  With Jan dead

there is no one else.  Nicosia is it, whether anyone (including him!) likes

it or not.

 

And you'll note, James, I didn't ask anyone to stand up for Nicosia.  I asked

people to put Rod in his place with regard to making false and/or

unsubstantiated claims.  There is a difference.

 

Like I said I don't agree with everything Gerry says or does but I do think

he's right to try to save Jack's Archives.

 

Jerry Cimino

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 21:19:08 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Beat-l

 

Enough is enough.  Sure, the Kerouac Estate is meat for discussion but

this listdoes NOT exist for listmembers to curse at each other and

insult one another personally.  If you want to do this, I'll say again,

TAKE IT OFF THE LIST!

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 21:33:47 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: A Note to the Peacekeepers

 

Steve/Whisky,

 

I noted your response to Levi' post the other day.  I was heartened to see

it, but posts like yours have been few and far between as we all know.

 

Frankly, I was also heartened to see Levi's post as well.  I thought it was a

very well reasoned and impassioned plea to Gerry to recognize people Gerry

percieves as enemies aren't necessarily out to hurt him.  I personally think

that is the case with both Levi and Atilla.  Just because Dharma Beat accepts

an ad from Viking/Penguin does not mean Atilla is in bed w/Sampas as Gerry

seems to think.  I can say that from my perspective, but I can also

understand Gerry's perspective as well.

 

When my wife and I owned our coffeehouse/bookstore and were losing our shirts

it was very easy for us to view our regular customers who walked in with a B.

Dalton's bag full of books or a Starbuck's cup of coffee as "disloyal" who

didn't give a damn about us and our business.  We learned very quickly that

people will always do what is in their own best interest.  We all do that.

 And if somebody could save a few bucks by going to B. Dalton or if

Starbuck's happened to be closer to where they were when they got the urge

for a cup of coffee, they weren't doing anything against us... they were just

doing what they thought was best for them.

 

And that's how I view Atilla taking advertising from Viking.  That doesn't

have to make him Gerry's enemy.  But take it from one who knows, when you're

in the heat of battle, anyone who isn't shooting in the same direction as you

is the enemy!  Maybe it shouldn't be that way, but it's human nature that it

is.

 

Jerry Cimino

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 18:43:08 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Not Ashamed/Musing

 

Jerry Cimino wrote:

>

> James,

>

> I don't agree with a lot of what you say in your "not ashamed post" and I'm

> glad YOU used the "Good German" analogy and not me as I don't want to be

> acused of calling anyone a Nazi/"Adolph Hitler apologist" or anything else.

>  And I laughed out loud w/regard to your lightbulb joke!

>

> James, I'm not a Nicosia groupie and I certainly don't genuflect at his

> alter.  Quite frankly I think Gerry is off base on certain things.  I wish he

> wouldn't accuse everybody who's ever heard of John Sampas as being in bed

> with him.  I think that's counter-productive and hurts his cause and

> alienates people who could otherwise be his allies.

>

> The point though, James, is Nicosia is inextricably intertwined with the

> cause of Saving Jack's Archives.  You and many others obviously don't think

> that is a good thing, but I do and Nicosia is the only person doing anything

> about it.  He's leading the charge!  I don't see anybody else raising their

> hand to do it.  I certainly couldn't do it even if I wanted to try.  And I

> don't think there is one other person out there who could.  With Jan dead

> there is no one else.  Nicosia is it, whether anyone (including him!) likes

> it or not.

>

> And you'll note, James, I didn't ask anyone to stand up for Nicosia.  I asked

> people to put Rod in his place with regard to making false and/or

> unsubstantiated claims.  There is a difference.

>

> Like I said I don't agree with everything Gerry says or does but I do think

> he's right to try to save Jack's Archives.

>

> Jerry Cimino

 

 

Jerry,

 

I agree with you more than you think.  I think the real problem is that

Gerry is so damn conspiracy driven that he fatally hurts his own cause.

I've always said, he may well be right, but he loses all credibity with

me by the "in bed" with SAmpas think.  Let him win in court.  He isn't

going to court against Anastee or Maher but the Sampas family.  l hope

there is an archive, but I doubt it will happen, because as I said

earlier that as long as Sampas and Lash control 2/3's I don't see how

anyone will be able to work with Nicosia.  It would have to be his way

or the highway.  Maybe I read him wrong, but he certainly doesn't come

off as capable of compromising with the Sampas people at all.

 

In his last backchannel to me he was explaining to me how essentially he

is responsible for everything Ann Charters knows about Jack.  She speaks

respectfully of him, he can't mention her without remembering that she

didn't take his side with Jan.  Maybe Jan was an angel, or maybe she was

hard to deal with--I don't know, but it seems to me that Ann's failure

to join Jan's cause doesn't just wipe out her biographical and editing

achievements.

 

Frankly, I keep vowing to shut up and only post things like Mitchell's.

James

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 21:51:27 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rod Anstee <Nastees@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Memory Babe Archive

 

In a message dated 97-05-26 14:03:18 EDT, you write:

 

 

>        NONE OF THE XEROXES I SOLD TO LOWELL WERE THE PROPERTY OF OTHER

LIBRARIES.  GOT THAT?

>

Sorry, I'm still confused here Gerry. Are you saying that amongst the stuff

you transferred to the library in Lowell in 1987, there was absolutely no

material that was the property of other libraries, or are you saying that the

part you "sold" was free of this class of material, and that any material of

this kind was simply "donated" instead. You know that there WAS material of

this sort in the archive, or at least back then you indicated as such -- some

people seem to get upset when I quote directly from your letters from 1987,

so without quoting directly this time, I can refer to another letter in which

you specifically mentioned, for example, that your copies of the JK/Cowley

letters had been transferred to Lowell amongst the rest of the archive. As

you know, that material (in original form) has a home in the Newberry

Library. Are you saying now that the Cowley letter (xeroxes) were never

transferred? The date on the letter I'm not going to quote from is 25

October, 1987. Was your statement about them in that letter wrong?

Unfortunately we weren't discussing the JK/AG correspondence at the time, so

I have no contemporary references to them.

CHEERS Rod (Yes, soccer went well, thanks.)

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 21:47:30 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      10 most important

 

1) ON THE ROAD

        2) THE DHARMA BUMS

        3) DR. SAX

        4) THE SUBTERRANEANS

        5) VISIONS OF GERARD

        6) VISIONS OF CODY

        7) VANITY OF DULUOZ

        8) BIG SUR

        9) DESOLATION ANGELS

        10) MEXICO CITY BLUES

 

I like Satori (sp?) in Paris.

 

Peace,

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 21:50:58 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Re: New York Public Library (final post, this time I mean it)

 

Gerald Nicosia wrote:

 

> <snip the whole thing>

>         Best always, Gerry Nicosia

 

Damn, that was an informative post, whatever the motivation, Gerry, I

hope you will not unsubscribe.  I would like to know more.  Just get a

thicker skin.  Please.

 

Peace,

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 22:00:17 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Letter to Mayo

 

Bentz,

 

        Gerry has already pointed out that it was not Mayo who negotiated

the purchase from Gerry.

 

* "In a way I am quite surprised, in retrospect, that Martha Mayo agreed to

* purchase these in the first place, knowing that many of them (originals) are

* the property of other libraries."

 

        I believe Gerry has intimated - although Rod pushed the point in a

leter post - that the Columbia letter was not part of the purchase/donation.

 

*  He goes on to then state that Gerry Nicosia

* sold to your library a photocopy of a letter from Jack Kerouac to Allen

* Ginsberg dated April 8, 1952 even though it has the instructions on it

that the

* copy is to be returned to Columbia University.

 

        Antoine

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

     "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"

                        -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 21:56:14 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Re: Nick, uh, I mean Judith, uhh nick

 

Bill Gargan wrote:

 

> Doesn't the notion of "fair use" only apply to published sources?

 

 I don't know about copyright law and am asking for those who do to

enlighten us.

 

Peace,

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 22:01:44 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rod Anstee <Nastees@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Post on Archives

 

In a message dated 97-05-26 15:25:25 EDT, you write:

 

>" But no xerox that was owned by another library was

>included in the body of material that was finally transferred to U Mass,

>Lowell.

>

 Ah, since he makes this statement with crystal clarity,  why pussyfoot

around!? Here's what Gerry wrote to me 25 October, 1987:

 

"I didn't get time to go through the Cowley letters which are now on deposit

in Lowell, at the U. of Lowell, but will remain a locked collection till

Martha Mayo gets it all catalogued."

 

I fear it's a contradiction, our Gerry.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 19:06:46 -0700

Reply-To:     david@cyberwarecom.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         David McClusky <david@CYBERWARECOM.COM>

Organization: CyberWare Communications (http://www.cyberwarecom.com)

Subject:      Beat Generation Essay

 

Hey everyone..

 

I have posted a very rough draft (uncompleted) on an essay I am writing

on the Beat Generation for my high school english class.  If anyone

wants to take a look at it and give me their thoughts thanks. (remember,

high school english.)

 

The address is http://www.cyberwarecom.com/david/beatgen.htm

 

Thanks!

 

David McClusky

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 19:15:32 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Calling Bill Gargan

 

                                        May 26, 1997

 

        Did anyone pick up on the fact that Rod Anstee, after accusing me of

selling stolen items, proceeded to print one of my private letters on the

internet (the equivalent of publishing it), in complete violation of my own

copyright in my unpublished writings (which includes my correspondence)?

        I.e., Mr. Anstee has committed the crime of copyright infringement

right in front of all your eyes.

        I call on Bill Gargan to stop this kind of rogue activity

immediately, and if Mr. Anstee will not desist from such criminal behavior,

to cut off his Beat-List privileges.

        Thank you.

                                                Yours truly,

                                                Gerald Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 19:37:50 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Mr. Anstee Continues Breaking the Law

Comments: cc: WXGBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

 

To Rod Anstee:      May 26, 1997

 

        You are breaking the law (copyright infringement) by printing my

private, unpublished letters on the Beat-List.  If this continues, I will

have to take legal action against both you and the Beat-List.

        I therefore call upon Mr. Bill Gargan to suspend Mr. Anstee's

Beat-List privileges at once, as he refuses to stop this rogue behavior.

        Mr. Anstee has no knowledge of my relationship with the Newberry

Library or any other library, under what conditions and restrictions copies

were made, etc.  He nevertheless continues to throw aspersions at me,

insinuating that I have somehow sold stolen materials, which is a clear

defamation of my character.

        I repudiate all his accusations, and will hold him accountable for

every one of them.

        Yours truly,

        Gerald Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 21:41:35 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: A Note to the Peacekeepers

 

Steve Smith a.k.a. Whiskey Wordsmith wrote:

 

> one day we'll all have to meet to drink bombs in a nether lowell or

> tangiers--and the monsters will be sorted out and go directly to

> shitholes in the deepest circles of dante's condo complex.

>

 

please make sure i get invited to this ....

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 22:45:08 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Rod Is Off Base!

 

Rod,

 

Why do you insist on making the MEMORY BABE Archive the issue, here?

 

The issue is Jack's Archives, not Nicosia's.

 

Jack Kerouac is the author we're concerned about here.  Why do you insist on

making Nicosia the issue.

 

Rod, I can't tell you how disillusioned I am with you that you would make

private correspondance with Gerry public to support your position here.   You

are a very low human being indeed.  I won't ever trust another word you say.

 This is dispicable!

 

TO EVERYONE ELSE ON THE BEAT-L:  Here's what you get for keeping silent.  If

any of you have ever sent Anstee a letter I'd be looking over what you wrote

if I were you!

 

 

Jerry Cimino

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 21:55:44 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Mr. Anstee Continues Breaking the Law

 

Gerald Nicosia wrote:

>

> To Rod Anstee:      May 26, 1997

>

>         You are breaking the law (copyright infringement) by printing my

> private, unpublished letters on the Beat-List.  If this continues, I will

> have to take legal action against both you and the Beat-List.

>         I therefore call upon Mr. Bill Gargan to suspend Mr. Anstee's

> Beat-List privileges at once, as he refuses to stop this rogue behavior.

>         Mr. Anstee has no knowledge of my relationship with the Newberry

> Library or any other library, under what conditions and restrictions copies

> were made, etc.  He nevertheless continues to throw aspersions at me,

> insinuating that I have somehow sold stolen materials, which is a clear

> defamation of my character.

>         I repudiate all his accusations, and will hold him accountable for

> every one of them.

>         Yours truly,

>         Gerald Nicosia

 

it has been years since I read anything concerning copyright law.  i

primarily was concerned with fair use in relation to montage art.  i

must admit to skimming much of Nimmer's duller moments on other

subjects.  it seems doubtful to me that the "recipient" of a letter does

not have equal liberty to use the material as s/he sees fit.  i have no

legal library at my disposal currently to test this doubt.  if you're

familiar with particular copyright laws which have been violated, it

would help those of us who observe this foray if you would point to them

in your public accusations.  i hope that others have caught the grand

irony in your publicly accusing others of crimes after having chastised

others for self-same action merely days ago.

 

i hope you have a pleasant evening.  i'm off to peruse more of Dharma

Lions.  Today's postings have soiled my eyes to reading anything further

about Jack which is a shame i suppose.

 

david rhaesa

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 23:09:49 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Re: A Note to the Peacekeepers

 

RACE --- wrote:

 

> Steve Smith a.k.a. Whiskey Wordsmith wrote:

>

> > one day we'll all have to meet to drink bombs in a nether lowell or

> > tangiers--and the monsters will be sorted out and go directly to

> > shitholes in the deepest circles of dante's condo complex.

> >

>

> please make sure i get invited to this ....

>

> david rhaesa

> salina, Kansas

 

 David:

 

I think I would prefer to watch from a safe distance.  :-)

 

What about trading for Duncan  ooopppsss, wrong list.

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 00:01:38 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: spontaneous sidewalk re-worked.

 

Marie Countryman wrote:

>

> thinking about kerouac

> or,

> spontaneous sidewalk

>

> what is it with me, lately?

> i keep buying books.

>                 i'm poor

>                         but would rather go hungry

>                                 than be hungry for words

> i want to be a writer.

>                 i read lots of writers

>                         lots of poetry

>                                 lots of prose

>                                         lots of writers writing about writing

>                                                 and critics who write about

>         them,

> until i get  to feeling like the quaker oats man

>                 who is pictured on the label

>                         holding another quaker box

>                                                 with a little

>                                                         quaker man, holding,

>                         you  know?

> i mean, when does he ever eat the oatmeal?

> i throw over my captors,

> selfconsciouness and fear,

> and break free

> and up from the depths of my

> inarticulate soul

> the voices spoke to me of kerouac,

> and

> word sketches writ down in the moment.

>

> now i stop all thought,

> and, suddenly,

> finally !

>         i am left with IT!

>                 jack 's

>                         spontaneous prose

>                                 writ in humble small  pad

>                                          full of word sketches

>                                 novels

>                         poetry

>

>                 prose

> and

> emboldened,

> out i go, tiny pad in pocket

> looking avidly for

> the perfect

> poetic moment

> to capture in words,

> a stupenousllyspontaenously

> experience of IT

>

>  and so, i go, casting

> eyes to sky

> and down to

> earth

> & cement.

>

> i walk quite a bit,

> and then further.

> no epiphanies.

> my pad begins to sweat.

>

> i stop.

> and then i look about.

> i am standing

> in the midst

> of a cheery

> hop scotch

> scrawled in blue chalk.

>

> i had my note pad ready

> to capture it all,

> a fine lot of  writing

>         to be done in the moment,

>                 a frenzy of scribbling

>                         of making it new,

> until, quite suddenly,

> despite  lingering winter chill

> i stood enveloped in the warmth of

> twilight  days

> of summer.

> mothers' voices on the breeze

> giving last call for play

> with

>          just

>                 one

>                          more

>                                 game

>                 of hop scotch,

>         marbles, jumprope

> kick the can ...  (allly ally outs in free.....

>         voices called out

>                         in my mind)

>

> on a sunlit afternoon this spring

> i stood in twilight summer haze

> feeling once again

> dirty hands and sticky faces,

> bare feet on dewy grass...

>                         touch

>                                 taste

>                         sight

>                 sounds

>         alive!

>

>  i stood before the chalked outlines

> scribbling furiously.

> ithen dashed off

> to read my pocket ful of

> sketched

> impressions,

> literary

> allusions,

> and all things real with potency.

>

> yes, i feel like a real poet now.

>

> as i

> sit down excitedly

> to transcribe my notes

> and  fashion a  pome.

> i open my notebook :

> no words at all,

> only the sketch

> of  hopscotch blocks,

> blue chalk and all.

>

> @mc/517/97

> revised 5/26/97

 

 

Thanks for an excellent poem and one of the two out of 50 posts that did

not involve name-calling or legal action.  Tomorrow, Tuesday, let's have

everyone on the list post one poem, story, or idea about beat literature.

 I bet there are about 200 people out there that want to do just that.

I'll start myself first thing in the morning.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 23:16:52 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: A Note to the Peacekeepers

 

                                                H

                                H                               H

                H

H

A

 

                H

H

                                H                               H

                                                H

 

 

 

 

 

                                                                        {8^>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 23:20:41 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Re: spontaneous sidewalk re-worked.

 

Diane Carter wrote:

 

> <snip absolutely sweet marie>

>

> Thanks for an excellent poem and one of the two out of 50 posts that

> did

> not involve name-calling or legal action.  Tomorrow, Tuesday, let's

> have

> everyone on the list post one poem, story, or idea about beat

> literature.

>  I bet there are about 200 people out there that want to do just that.

>

> I'll start myself first thing in the morning.

 

  Diane,

 

I am down with that.

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 23:28:26 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: questions about Jack's death

 

At 05:47 PM 5/26/97 -0700, jennie wrote:

 

>While reading Dharma Bums yesterday a good question

>happened into my mind... Does anyone think that one

>of the forces contributing to Jack's alcoholism and death

>was the internal conflict between his Buddhist and

>Catholic beliefs?  I get the feeling that in his old (not really,

>but lack of better word) age he was turning against all that

>he had done with his life (shown in his dislike for the

>pranksters and such).. perhaps he was feeling guilty, thus

>drank to lose feelings of guilt, and purposely (as in leaving los

>vegas) drank himself to death? a slow suicide?  I'm

>just wondering, perhaps someone can help me out with

>this one?

 

Hey Jennie,

 

Thought I'd throw this at ya:

 

from _Tristessa_ ~ Jack Kerouac

 

                                                * * * * *

"EL INDIO GOES out and gets meat sandwiches and now

the cat goes mad yelling and mewing for some and El Indio

throws her off the bed--but Cat finally gets a bite of meat

and ronches at it like a mad little Tiger and I think "If she

was as big as the one in the zoo, she'd look at me with big

green eyes before eating me."  I'm having a fairy tale of

Saturday night, having a good time actually because of

the booze and the good cheer and the careless people--

enjoying the little animals--noticing the little Chihuahua

pup now meekly waiting for a bite of meat or bread with

her tail curled in and woe, if she ever inherits the earth

it'll be because of meek--Ears curled back and even

whimpering the little Chihuahua smalldog fear-cry--

Nevertheless she's been alternately watching us and

sleeping all night, and her own reflections on the

subject of Nirvana and death and mortals biding time

till death, are of a whimpering high frequency terrified

tender variety--and the kind that says 'Leave me alone,

I am so delicate' and you leave her alone in her little

fragile shell like the shell of canoes over the ocean deeps--

I wish I could communicate to all these creatures and

people, in the flesh of my moonshine goodtimes the cloud

mystery of the magic milk to be seen in Mind's Deep

Imagery where we learn that everything is nothing--in

which case they wouldnt worry any more, except after the

instant they think to worry again--All of us trembling in

our mortality boots, born to die, BORN TO DIE I could write

it on the wall and on Walls all over America--Dove in wings

of peace, with her Noah Menagery Moonshine Eyes; dog

with clitty claws black and shiny, to die is born, trembles in

her purple eyes, her little weak bloodvessels down the ribs;

yeah the ribs of Chihuahua, and Tristessa's ribs too,

beautiful ribs, her with her aunts in Chihuahua also

born to die, beautiful to be ugly, quick to be dead, glad to

be sad, mad to be had--and the El Indio death, born to

die, the man, so he plies the needle of Saturday Night

every night is Saturday night and goes wild to wait, what

else can he do,--The death of Cruz, the drizzles of religion

falling on her burial fields, the grim mouth planted in the

satin of the earth coffin, . . . I moan to recover all that magic,

remembering my own impending death, 'If only I had the

magic self of babyhood when I remembered what it was

like before I was born, I wouldnt worry about death now

knowing both to be the same empty dream'--But what will

the Rooster say when it dies, and someone hacks a knife

in its fragile chin--And sweet Hen, she who eats out of

Tristessa's paw a globule of beer, her beak miffling like

human lips to chirn up the milk of the beer--when she

dies, sweet hen, Tristessa who loves her will save her

lucky bone and wrap it in red thread and keep it in her

belongings, nevertheless sweet Mother Hen of our Arc

of Noah Night, she the golden purveyor and reaches so

far back you can't find the egg that prompted her outward

through the first original shell, they'll hack and whack

at her tail with hacksaws and make mincemeat out of

her that you run through an iron grinder turning handle,

and would you wonder why she trembles from fear of

punishment too?  And the death of the cat, little dead rat

in the gutter with twisted yickface--I wish I could

communicate to all their combined fears of death the

Teaching that I have heard from Ages of Old, that

recompenses all that pain with soft reward of perfect silent

love abiding up and down and in and out everywhere past,

present, and future in the Void unknown where nothing

happens and all simply is what is.  But they know that

themselves, beast and jackal and love woman, and my

Teaching of Old is indeed so old they've heard it long

ago before my time.

 

I become depressed and I gotta go home.  Everyone of

us, born to die."

 

                                                * * * * *

 

Thought this might fit in to your question, somewhere?

I was just re-reading this and stumbled across this part

last night, your question brought back some of the

same questions floating through my skull.  I'll get

back to this when I have time, but I thought you

might like the text?

 

Mike

 

Mike

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 26 May 1997 23:59:45 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Well, as if I have not already asked for it, and then this

 

Well, I don't know if he did, but a person told me he forwarded to the

list a poem I wrote back in 1976 or so about Jack and Allen.  If not, I

will dig it out and post it.  But in an effort to begin to get more

literary and expose myself to full critisim, I am going to post a couple

of poems I wrote back in 1973 or so when I first started reading beats.

I was exposed to Ferlinghetti and Corso in a college lit class and

before reading Jack, decided that I was going to be a poet like them and

Ginsberg.  So, this is what stumbled out.  I figure everyone's pissed at

me anyway, so why not some bad teenage poetry to boot.

 

Solitary Rider

 

Solitary rider,

Distant strider,

me, alone, apart.

Traveling free

Of chains that hold

Some men back.

(They don't hold me,

These chains,

I must break free.)

Search, quest,

Else I am doomed,

To spend my life

With these chains upon my heart.

 

Bentz Kirby, 1973

Baptist College at Charleston, South Carolina

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 00:16:14 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         George Russell <CodyPomera@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: 10 most important

 

I hope not in any order?

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 00:13:06 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Ma Tucker

 

This is one I never finished.  I figured it was beyond my reach and was

really a short story.

 

Ma Tucker's, Reasonable Rates

 

On this dusty sofa, in her mother's den,

She sits, renting rooms for $5.00 a night.

I stayed there once.

Upon leaving, it was Sunday and

Texaco played an opera on the radio.

Suppose she was 45, looked 65,

Beaten look, boredom had written

The lines in her face with a sharpe pen.

Life for her was over,

I could not see her eyes.

 

She looked at us,

Kristi, me, and said,

"You are so lucky.

I envy you.

You are so young,

And have your lifes before you.

And you have each other,

and me, ...."

 

Just then, I say a light, that was gone again.

 

Her mother, Ma Tucker, turned,

"You have me."

She patted her mother's hand

With more love than I could understand.

"Yes, mother, I have you."

 

She gave us advice about

Living each day as it comes,

To love each other,

And we looked into each other,

Kristi and I and saw the same.

We could not

Ease her pain.

We could not take her with us,

So we left her there,

With her mother,

And they rent rooms,

$5.00 a night.

Reasonable rates,

At any hotel.

 

--

 

Typing this brings a particular sadness to my heart.  About one year

ago  at the age of 39, Kristi committed suicide.  The sadness is deep

and  I miss her pained spirit.  But needless to say, we were not who Ma

Tuckers daughter thought us to be.  This is almost word for word and is

not really a poem.   Just an observation.

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 00:36:35 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>

Subject:      The cat-fight

 

Walt and Deanie's, a neighborhood bar

 50's style hole in the wall

their specialty pork tenderloins

and a 3:00 license

the place is a mecca

after last calls all over town

 

I'm savoring Miller Lite and mulling over my own tenderloin (barely nibbled)

 

when the proverbial cat-fight hits

at the very next table

a pregnant woman pitches a mixed drink on a chick in a miniskirt

which leads naturally to hairpulling and scratching

there are four of them

it's so dramatic

glass splinters on the brown linoleum

John Fogarty 's dark voice drones

my drinking buddy I see is glowing and twitching

she likes a fight

I say have your unneccesary fun but don't expect me to jump in behind you

I have to say it loud, over the banshees and the furniture

she thinks a second

she rolls her glass in her hand

 

Suddenly big Walt's all around the sisters

he carries them out the door still hissing a little

the gravid one wails

"But she called me a slut"

"Honey, you're all sluts"

explains Walt,

patiently

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 00:44:13 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rod Anstee <Nastees@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Rod Is Off Base!

 

At least I'm not being accused of mis-quoting!

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 00:44:54 -0400

Reply-To:     "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Memory Babe Archive

 

Reply to message from Nastees@AOL.COM of Mon, 26 May

 

>In a message dated 97-05-26 14:03:18 EDT, you write:

>

>

>>        NONE OF THE XEROXES I SOLD TO LOWELL WERE THE PROPERTY OF OTHER

>>LIBRARIES.  GOT THAT?

>

>Sorry, I'm still confused here Gerry. Are you saying that amongst the stuff

>you transferred to the library in Lowell in 1987, there was absolutely no

>material that was the property of other libraries, or are you saying that the

>part you "sold" was free of this class of material, and that any material of

>this kind was simply "donated" instead. You know that there WAS material of

 

 

Didn't you read his original post?  He said he didn't necessarily donate

anything, that it was more or less all sold but at a lower price then it

was really worth so some of the stuff could be considered donated but

nothing was specifically tagged as being specifically donated!  (If my

paraphrasing is wrong, I'm sorry, go re-read the original post then.  I'm

only a very recent college graduate, no credentials of any kind, but Mr.

Nicosia's (sp?) original post made sense to me, at least...)

 

And....for everyone discussing this....since every legal loophole is being

dragged out, people do not xerox, they photocopy.  The sheet of paper is

not a xerox, it's a photocopy; Xerox is a registered trademark and is not

supposed to be used as a noun/verb.  Just read the Xerox advertisements in your

copy of _Writer's Digest_.  And the ones for Kleenex & Crayola Crayons &

for Day-Glo and Post-It Notes.  They're really quite amusing.

 

 

 

>this sort in the archive, or at least back then you indicated as such -- some

>people seem to get upset when I quote directly from your letters from 1987,

>so without quoting directly this time, I can refer to another letter in which

>you specifically mentioned, for example, that your copies of the JK/Cowley

>letters had been transferred to Lowell amongst the rest of the archive. As

>you know, that material (in original form) has a home in the Newberry

>Library. Are you saying now that the Cowley letter (xeroxes) were never

>transferred? The date on the letter I'm not going to quote from is 25

>October, 1987. Was your statement about them in that letter wrong?

>Unfortunately we weren't discussing the JK/AG correspondence at the time, so

>I have no contemporary references to them.

>CHEERS Rod (Yes, soccer went well, thanks.)

 

 

Is Mr. Nicosia on trial here?  How do any of these matters that you've

written about in this post really concern the Beat-L, Mr. Anastee (sp?)?

Why are you purposely trying to discredit Mr. Nicosia so that his arguments for

preserving Jack Kerouac's archives come off as tainted?  You aren't the

lawyer here.  Leave the poor guy alone & post something semi-relevant to

the other 198 (it's an aproximation) people on this list, please?

 

Diane Homza.

 

--

"This is Beat.  Live your lives out?  Naw, _love_ your lives out!"

                                                        --Jack Kerouac

Diane Marie Homza

ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 00:42:03 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      One last little thing on the poetry end

 

Falling

            In

                Love

Will never pain me again.

I am keeping my eyes OPEN

So I can see just when

                    To

               Fall

        Out

Again!

 

This one of my first word plays from back in the early 70's.  I don't

know if anyone is interested in more of the Toxic City, but how about

the meat counter, check  out and etc.  I wrote a good country, uh, not

you know that other word, song once about that.  Swinging Singles in the

Supermarket.  Oh well, as I always say, I wish I was as funny as  I

think I am.

 

Off to build a beat link page.  I guess I'll list Levi first.  But, why

can't I get into the Cosmic Baseball site.  Let me hear from you

Clark@clark.clark.net.

 

Peace,

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 00:47:57 -0400

Reply-To:     "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Ma Tucker

 

Reply to message from bocelts@SCSN.NET of Tue, 27 May

 

 

>Ma Tucker's, Reasonable Rates

 

(snipped)

 

>--

>

>Typing this brings a particular sadness to my heart.  About one year

>ago  at the age of 39, Kristi committed suicide.  The sadness is deep

>and  I miss her pained spirit.  But needless to say, we were not who Ma

>Tuckers daughter thought us to be.  This is almost word for word and is

>not really a poem.   Just an observation.

>

>Peace,

>

>Bentz

>bocelts@scsn.net

>

>http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

 

 

still very touching :)  thanks for sharing it!

 

Diane.

 

--

"This is Beat.  Live your lives out?  Naw, _love_ your lives out!"

                                                        --Jack Kerouac

Diane Marie Homza

ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 00:53:54 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Dawn B. Sova" <DawnDR@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Allen's Memorial

 

Not meaning to break the estate thread (SURE, I don't mean to!) -- but  I

would like to know if anyone else plans to attend the June 8th memorial in

Paterson for Allen.  I'm lucky -- I live across the river (or down the

highway, depending how you go) and will easily be there.

 

Just to bring Allen up for a sentence of two more.  I was thrilled to see his

poem in the New Yorker mention his reading year long past at Montclair State

Teachers College (a name long outgrown as that is now Montclair State

Univeristy).  I was then a wide-eyed freshman and, because of my friendship

with someone in charge of something (activities?  auditorium lighting?  Who

knows?), became part of the charmed circle who met the bearded gentle giant.

 Thirty years later, I consider that brief meeting a momentous occasion in my

life. He made a comment about sunshine and stars and my name.  (So, he was

charming as well.  Go figure!)

 

Dawn

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 01:05:32 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Rod Is Off Base!

 

Rod wrote:

 

"At least I'm not being accused of mis-quoting!"

 

 

No Rod, you're only being accused of criminal activity!  Any mistake I've

ever made on the Beat-l has been an honest error.  You on the other hand

enjoy hurting people.  Tearing at them.  Betraying their confidence.

 

You're a real stand up guy, Rod!

 

 

Jerry Cimino

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 00:04:12 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Charlie and billie were travelers

 

Charley Plymell and son billy arrived in Lawrence aroung 5: to a

memorial mixed family, hippy and suit shrimp dinner, jim McCrary and Sue

Brussoue (David Ohles wife) welcomed him,  H stood ranting over me

quietly as I write.

Patricia

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 00:47:53 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: questions about Jack's death

 

She-Ra wrote:

>

> While reading Dharma Bums yesterday a good question happened into my

> mind... Does anyone think that one of the forces contributing to Jack's

> alcoholism and death was the internal conflict between his Buddhist and

> Catholic beliefs?  I get the feeling that in his old (not really, but

> lack of better word) age he was turning against all that he had done with

> his life (shown in his dislike for the pranksters and such).. perhaps he

> was feeling guilty, thus drank to lose feelings of guilt, and purposely

> (as in leaving los vegas) drank himself to death? a slow suicide?  I'm

> just wondering, perhaps someone can help me out with this one?

>

> jennie

>

> ****** jennie42@asu.edu ******

>

> #28     There is no sin-

>         I know perfectly well

>         where I am

>                        -Jack Kerouac

>

> WE ARE SEARCHING

> FOR RATIONAL REASONS

> FOR BELIEVING

> IN THE ABSURD

>      -Harold Norse (from the poem "Believing in the Absurd")

> ---------------------------------------

 

i think about that conflict often.  imagining the pope and zen master in

a fist fight over whiskey at Joe's bar and grill.  certainly a lesson in

accepting opposites.  such strains Affect the psyche i guarantee.

 

david rhaesa

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 03:27:47 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Late night and Kicks Joy Darkness

 

Kicks, Joy, Darkness

some selected readings suggested while listening to the KJC CD.

 

Lord Byron. 1788-1824.

... Still from the fount of joy's delicious springs

... On with the dance! let joy be unconfined;

... And storm and darkness! ye are wondrous strong,

... And I have loved thee, Ocean! and my joy

... There 's not a joy the world can give like that it takes away.

... All who joy would win

... From crowns to kicks, according to their vices. 38

 

Joy, Darkness

 

William Shakespeare. Macbeth.

... The instruments of darkness tell us truths,

... I drink to the general joy o' the whole table.

 

John Milton. 1608-1674.

... No light, but rather darkness visible.

... Where joy forever dwells: hail, horrors!

... With joy and love triumphing.

... Such joy ambition finds.

... Of darkness till it smil'd!

... May sit i' th' centre and enjoy bright day;

... Enjoy your dear wit and gay rhetoric,

 

Alexander Pope. 1688-1744.

... And more true joy Marcellus exil'd feels

... And universal darkness buries all.

... Who ne'er knew joy but friendship might divide,

... The melancholy joy of evils past:

... (The good man prolongs his life; to be able to enjoy one's past life

is to live twice).--Martial, x.

237.

 

Henry W. Longfellow. 1807-1882.

... The day is done, and the darkness

... Must love and joy and sorrow learn;

 

Robert Browning. 1812-1890.

... For life, with all it yields of joy and woe,

... Of pain, darkness, and cold.

 

James Russell Lowell. 1819-1891.

... And the choice goes by forever 'twixt that darkness and that light.

... Joy comes, grief goes, we know not how.

 

Old Testament.

... The land of darkness and the shadow of death.

... Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is Mount Zion,

22

... the city of the great King.

... Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for... the

destruction that wasteth at noonday. 37

... Give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the

garment of praise for the spirit of

heaviness.

... The hill of Sion is a fair place, and the joy of the whole

earth.--Ibid.

... For the pestilence that walketh in darkness, nor for the sickness

that destroyeth in the

noonday.--Ibid.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 11:00:17 +0200

Reply-To:     smeraldo.press@iol.it

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Ufficio Stampa Teatro Smeraldo <smeraldo.press@IOL.IT>

Organization: Teatro Smeraldo

Subject:      Jack & Jazz

 

Hi everybody!

from the "cloudy shores of Italy", I have two questions to ask you:

- which kind of LIVE jazz was jack kerouac used to listen to during his

life? I mean: in which jazz clubs did he go often to, in which towns and

in which period? Do exist any LETTER (apart from references contained in

published books) in which these details are booked, or does he remember

any live jam session or jazz musician he met or knew?

- who are the jazz musicians playing with him during his Mexico City

Blues and On The Road reading recording? I have a "copy-of-the-copy" of

that tape and no one could tell me when, where and with whom it was

recorded...

 

Thank you very much for your help.

Bye, Laura :.)

--

Laura Moja

Ufficio Stampa

Teatro Smeraldo

smeraldo.press@iol.it

http:/www4.iol.it/smeraldo

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 05:21:42 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: A Note to the Peacekeepers

In-Reply-To:  <970526184408_1955964541@emout09.mail.aol.com>

 

hey jerry:

usually i am an active participant in restoring peace to the list, as many

here may know. actually, i had unsubbed, then when i returned, i came into

the fur flying and furiously long posts, took me a long time to get my

sealegs.

i've held off until i could read all of mr anstee's voluminous and

vitriolic posts, a dirty job, but in interests of truth and some justice,

i had to sort this whole danged mess out.

and rod

i'm not in the least surprised to find you up to your usual tricks, just

sad to see that once again, you rely on acid rather than your own batteries.

mc

-to live outside the law you must be honest - i think bob dylan sed that...

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 05:21:49 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: To the Peacemakers...

In-Reply-To:  <9704268646.AA864695151@Mail.ff.cc.mn.us>

 

wes wrote

>Hello, Jerry!  Well, I'll tell you what: there's a reason I never post

>anything

>to Rod Anstee.  I still remember the crap he threw at Ron Whitehead (not to

>mention others).  He's a man with his own agenda, and he does what strikes his

>fancy... whether anybody "puts up with it" or not.  Silence is not being party

>to him.  So, since my inaction is a statement, let the statement be I

>won't be a

>party to any of it, nor will I let someone like Anstee dictate any of my

>actions

>or reactions.  As I posted in an open letter to Gerry Nicosia, I believe he's

>made his point, and made it well.  The other guys are just making asses out of

>themselves... my impression is that they like to make asses of themselves.

>

>Why should I waste my time posting to them?  It won't change anything they do.

>Only reasonable people listen to reasonable voices.

>

>All the best, ---Wes

*****************

hello wes! couldnt agree more, and believe i said same the last time rod

bullied one of our angels off list, i still miss ron whitehead, too, wes.

and i dislike bullies intensely.

yrs

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 05:21:57 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      send lawyers guns and money the shit has hit the fan

In-Reply-To:  <1.5.4.32.19970526194611.006b2538@pop.pipeline.com>

 

gads.

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 06:44:00 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      any one know if this is still in print?

In-Reply-To:  <970526224507_2086822789@emout14.mail.aol.com>

 

 Elegiac Feelings American and was published in

paperback by New Directions Books

333 Sixth Avenue

New York, NY  10014

____________

i so enjoyed rBk's quotations and would love to get my hands on a copy.

thanks all.

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 06:44:15 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Ma Tucker

In-Reply-To:  <338A5F51.AB136E36@scsn.net>

 

rBk wrote (snip fore and aft)

 

>She gave us advice about

>Living each day as it comes,

>To love each other,

>And we looked into each other,

>Kristi and I and saw the same.

>We could not

>Ease her pain.

>We could not take her with us,

>So we left her there,

>With her mother,

>And they rent rooms,

>$5.00 a night.

>Reasonable rates,

>At any hotel.

>

>--

>

>Typing this brings a particular sadness to my heart.  About one year

>ago  at the age of 39, Kristi committed suicide.  The sadness is deep

>and  I miss her pained spirit.  But needless to say, we were not who Ma

>Tuckers daughter thought us to be.  This is almost word for word and is

>not really a poem.   Just an observation.

____________

thanks, rBk. and the above quote is  poignantly poetic.

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 07:10:17 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         talk dirty to me <mutton@JANE.PENN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Rod Is Off Base!

 

i wish we all had i-phones so we could really rip

and tear. maybe even video conferencing

woo hooooo!!!

jeremy

 

----------

: From: Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

: To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

: Subject: Re: Rod Is Off Base!

: Date: Tuesday, May 27, 1997 12:05 AM

:

: Rod wrote:

:

: "At least I'm not being accused of mis-quoting!"

:

:

: No Rod, you're only being accused of criminal activity!  Any mistake I've

: ever made on the Beat-l has been an honest error.  You on the other hand

: enjoy hurting people.  Tearing at them.  Betraying their confidence.

:

: You're a real stand up guy, Rod!

:

:

: Jerry Cimino

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 08:15:55 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: send lawyers guns and money the shit has hit the fan

 

Thanx Marie,

 

Think I'll go throw on some Warren Zevon and do

the Wilbury Twist. {;^>

 

Mike

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 07:31:55 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      "...a gum in your hand?!?"

 

    Jerry Cimino wrote:

 

 "...anyone who isn't shooting in the same direction as you

is the enemy!  Maybe it shouldn't be that way, but it's human nature that it

is."

 

        Which is why arguing with a 'gun' in your hand/mouth is such a bad,

and unworkable idea.

 

                ....always good to check one's spelling; I had 'gum' instead

of 'gun' first time!

 

        "If you're not with me, you must be against me." is a nice

simpifying assumption if you're choosing religious sides, but has no place

on the Beat list. We're all a little right and a little wrong with lots of

usable stuff in the middle..

 

        Antoine

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

     "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"

                        -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 27 May 1997 07:32:01 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Hoops anyone?

 

Anyone for a little hoops?      ...or pick up hurley? Crazy Irish game

seemingly bred of Gaelic

Football and Lacrosse and capable of truly sustained violence!

 

 

      Ref: ********

 

        Bill Gargan

 

     Coach:**********

 

        Jan Kerouac             John Sampas

 

     Team members:************

 

  The Solitary Riders  vs. The Conspirators

 

        Gerry Nicosia           Rod Anstee

 

        Bentz Kirby             Phil Chaput

 

        Jerry Cimino            Paul Maher

 

        Wes Lundberg         Attila Gyenis

 

        Mike Cakebread      Ann Charters

 

        Substitutes can sign on here; please indicate affiliation and

language of choice when swearing!

 

                ...Jack's bringin' the wine and burgers for the after game

feast!

 

        Apologies to everyone who didn't get picked for one of the teams.

...and are standing around the schoolyard loking like you could care less!?!

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

     "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"

                        -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips

 



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