beat list 1997

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Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 18:34:08 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Could be worse

In a message dated 97-05-29 11:17:33 EDT, you write:

<< i just heard that the illness can be 'caught' from the air in Tennessee

where Bob played not too long ago >>

Damn, I'm going to be driving through Tennessee soon, I guess I'll have to

keep the windows rolled up. (It also seems I WON'T be visiting Jeff Taylor)

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Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 18:35:32 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz kirby

Subject: Re: News Update

Rodgers wrote:

> (A SATIRE)

> Anchor: We will now go to Ron Rodgers who is standing by inside

> the

> House of Beat-l.

> RR: I am standing in the middle of the kitchen area that can be

> described as hot..DAMN HOT. In fact it feels hotter than the

> hinges

> on the gates to hell. It is a very chaotic scene as beat-l

> members

> who cannot take this intense heat line up to jump out of the

> window;

> plunging into the wading pool seven stories below. We have

> identified

> one of the jumpers as Levon Cash, a renown news "beat" reporter.

> So

> far a dozen or so have left the kitchen, and I will try to

> identify

> them and others as this story progresses. I have just been

> informed

> that two..no three... more have left.

> Anchor: What about the orgin of the kitchen fire, and are there

> any

> suspects?

> RR: Apparently the flames started in April and have continued to

> blaze. Officials say this is what is classified as a "carbon"

> fire.

> This phenomenon occurs under idel conditions when bond paper

> touches

> exposed carbon paper. City service squads are on the look out

> four

> suspects. They are John Grand, Harold Nickels, Bill Shaloo, and

> Ron

> Friendly. Federal authorities may be brought in to round up

> others.

> Anchor: Ron, what are authorities doing to calm the flames?

> RR: Firefighter Bill (Gartland) has bravely but vainly attempted

> to

> provide a voice of reason to extinguish these flames. There is

> also a

> volunteer core of members assisting Firefighter Bill. The

> Extinguishing Crew is attired in asbestos lined T-shirts designed

> by

> T. Mudd Winslow. Across the front of the shirt is the slogan

> REMEMBER RON BONEWHEEL. These shirts were shipped free to the

> crew

> courtesy of Gary Lineberger from Air-Row Press.

> Anchor: We are going to break in now, as this story has reached

> overseas. Here is our italian correspondent Sergio Pistone.

> SP: quid

> skhgvu

> not

> loenvhfy can satisfy clomdy'

> urges d k

> b k tldi

> heotur

> rlskvnhgu

> tlnmbndieurbfg

> Anchor: Thank you Sergio. Ron, do you fear for your safety?

> RR: No, and I'll be honest with you, it's like the facination

> one has

> with a train wreck or America's Most Tragic Events Captured on

> Video.

> And frankly this is what I get paid to do.

> Anchor: Any plans of leaving?

> RR: No way. I'm here until the end. By the way, the flames do

> seem

> to be a bit more under control at this time, but no one is

> willing to

> speculate how long this will last.

> Reporting from the middle of the Beat-l kitchen, Ron Rodgers.

ROTFLMAO

You go boy!

Peace,

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

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Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 18:42:36 -0000

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: west <anwest@UP.NET>

Subject: Histoplasmosis

>A beat is ill. Bob Dylan is reported to have suffered a heart attack.

>The Dylan list says it is an infection in the lining of the heart which

>can be fatal.

The infection in the lining is the same thing my father has, he went to

the hospital and they thought it was cancer but they found out it was

Histoplasmosis. Now he has to go the hospital every two years to get it

checked, to make sure it hasn't grown. Just a note.

west

I belong to the blank generation

and I can take or leave it each time

-Richard Hell

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Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 15:49:08 -0700

Reply-To: e.lytle@ced.utah.edu

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Eric Lytle <e.lytle@CED.UTAH.EDU>

Organization: Sarcos Inc.

> andrew, what is 10,000 Maniacs? They do a song entitled Jack Kerouac.

10,000 Maniacs broke up several years ago. It's more likely to be

Morphine, the three-man, sax-bass-drums combo, from the Joy, Kicks

CD.

-E

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Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 17:46:37 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject: Re: Histoplasmosis

west wrote:

> >A beat is ill. Bob Dylan is reported to have suffered a heart attack.

> >The Dylan list says it is an infection in the lining of the heart which

> >can be fatal.

> The infection in the lining is the same thing my father has, he went to

> the hospital and they thought it was cancer but they found out it was

> Histoplasmosis. Now he has to go the hospital every two years to get it

> checked, to make sure it hasn't grown. Just a note.

> west

> I belong to the blank generation

> and I can take or leave it each time

> -Richard Hell

Can your Dad still tour?

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

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Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 18:50:15 -0000

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: west <anwest@UP.NET>

Subject: Re: how annoying some of these whiny people are!

><<

> kerouac's famous novel would be "On the Campus" a tale about Columbia

> and Morningside Park .... :)

> >>

>while we're on that track...Burroughs' would be "Sunday Brunch", set in the

>College Inn, a diner on Broadway with really greasy food and lots of roaches,

>of course.

>Ginsberg's...."Scowl", about haughty ivy league kids trying to out-cool each

>other, walking around campus looking down their noses at each other in

>disdain.

Ha! that's the funniest thing I've ever heard in my entire life, but

would Lawrence Ferlinghetti (i have trouble spelling me own name) still

be writing poems about his dog?

west

I belong to the blank generation

and I can take or leave it each time

-Richard Hell

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Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 18:55:00 -0400

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From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: No Subject hah

dear, racey

What do you mean,"he"?????

I wrote this!!!

In a message dated 97-05-29 14:32:15 EDT, you write:

<< f charcoal and warm molasses. the bitter taste of blood mixed with

rubbing alcohol, licked off my arm. Regrets of a typewriter and Brooklyn

days.

Chaos is not to be fucked with, I'm afraid. for what dreams may come? I

dreamed something was chasing me, no--I was chasing it. No. Something was

chasing me. No.

(incredible - he could have just set something like "she was confused")

> You can never go back. They say it and it's true. The hard way. Can you

live

with that? Did you know no one can see the same as you? Was that part of

the

bargain? I don't think so. I've been had.

(who hasn't felt this thought?)

Eternal longing for the present to remain so. Nostalgia for what is, or

never was.

(another universal feeling)

Do you wanna slap me? No, go ahead, I want you to.

(damn funny)

> In other words, everything is familiar to me....everything is similar.

Not

similar to, just similar.

(he is way ahead of the postmodernists right here)

All i can say is thank god everything in this world is connected in this

way, or i'd have nothing to live for. A "connections explorer",

discovering neural pathways no man woman or dog has ever before sent

synapses across. micro/macro-scopic vision simultaneously.

(this provides a great clue in to "how" to read burroughs)

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Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 19:00:46 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: What should I read?

sorry about all that extraneous information, but i think Western lands and

Dead roads are easier to read than Naked lunch. Which is not to say they are

easily read. anyhoo, happy reading seeya bye

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Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 17:59:34 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject: Re: No Subject hah

Maya Gorton wrote:

> dear, racey

> What do you mean,"he"?????

> I wrote this!!!

sorry about that - from the style of the excerpt i mistook you for

burroughs. i hope you aren't offended.

david

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Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 19:03:50 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: News Update

wow i'm so glad there are flashes of brilliance on this list after all...i

was beggining to think it was all trash and mudslinging. thanks.......maya

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Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 19:06:57 -0000

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From: west <anwest@UP.NET>

Subject: Re: how annoying some of these whiny people are!

>> Diane,

>> I enjoy Allen Ginsberg more than oxygen, but that's a pretty hefty

>> claim. I would enjoy a reason if you please.

>I was going to say Allen Ginsberg was the greatest American poet of the

>twentieth century but after I wrote "he was by far the greatest poet of

>the twentieth century," I realized that I do indeed believe that to be

>the case. Here's a go at the why. Allen broke barriers of language and

>of the mind. He was the only contemporary visionary poet and I think,

>the first since Walt Whitman. Allen had the visionary inspiration of

>Blake but he was able to connect his vision to an America we all know.

>He was true to poetic inspiration, and that was an inspiration that could

>come from the streets, bars, jails, and madhouses, and at the same time

>go beyond them. He was able to face the darkness of his own mind, the

>darkness of America, but write poems that were positive. He was able to

>adapt to a changing society and never lose sight of his vision; he was

>able over many generations to create a body of work that was still

>timely. He was able to live on the edge but never fall off the edge.

>Through his poetry he gave other poets permission to be themselves. He

>literally saved people's lives because he allowed them the space within

>his words to see that their thoughts were OK and that words were only

>just that...words. Self-involvement in poetry can go beyond the self,

>indulging in humanness can open the mind to a space beyond humaness. I

>think Howl was was his most important work and it speaks to me as much

>today as it did when I read it for the first time twenty years ago,

>From Howl

>"and who therefore ran through the icy streets obsessed with a sudden

>flash of the use of the elipse the catalog the meter & the vibrating

>plane the truth of poetry,

>who dreamt and made incarnate gaps in Time and Space through images

>juxtaposed, and trapped the archangel of the soul between two visual

>images...to recreate the syntax and measure of poor human prose, and

>stand before you speechless and intelligent and shaking with shame,

>rejected yet confessing out the soul to the rhythm of thought in his

>naked and endless head..."(from Howl).

>Quickly, that's my stab at why. What do you think?

I think you've thought about this for a long time and feel very strongly

about it and you speak your point very articulately. I, on the other

hand, cannot grasp the whole of any poet's work and give an acurate

assesement as compared to others. I find the process dizzying and

headache inducing. Have a day, make it nice.

west

I belong to the blank generation

and I can take or leave it each time

-Richard Hell

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Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 19:14:05 -0000

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: west <anwest@UP.NET>

Subject: Re: Histoplasmosis

>> >A beat is ill. Bob Dylan is reported to have suffered a heart attack.

>> >The Dylan list says it is an infection in the lining of the heart which

>> >can be fatal.

>> The infection in the lining is the same thing my father has, he went to

>> the hospital and they thought it was cancer but they found out it was

>> Histoplasmosis. Now he has to go the hospital every two years to get it

>> checked, to make sure it hasn't grown. Just a note.

>> west

>> I belong to the blank generation

>> and I can take or leave it each time

>> -Richard Hell

>Can your Dad still tour?

>david rhaesa

>salina, Kansas

yeah, he opens for Lawrence Welk.

west

I belong to the blank generation

and I can take or leave it each time

-Richard Hell

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Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 19:12:18 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject: Re: Histoplasmosis

In-Reply-To: <9705292240.AA28050@btc1>

hey west: richard hell &the voidoids & (tv and )televsion, verlaine and hell?

what oh?

>I belong to the blank generation

>and I can take or leave it each time

>-Richard Hell

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Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 19:19:04 -0000

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: west <anwest@UP.NET>

Subject: Re: Histoplasmosis

what? It's Richard Hell & the Voidoids punk anthem Blank Generation. Hope

I answered your question(?)

>hey west: richard hell &the voidoids & (tv and )televsion, verlaine and hell?

>what oh?

>mc

>>I belong to the blank generation

>>and I can take or leave it each time

>>-Richard Hell

west

I belong to the blank generation

and I can take or leave it each time

-Richard Hell

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Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 19:27:51 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Beat History

Just tossing out a question for discussion that seems to me is always at the

root of the "who is beat" issue, whis IS the most enduring topic for

discussion on this list notwithstanding the Kerouac estate issue.

Is beat a style, not confined to a specific time, place or set of people?

OR is beat something that is now and forever the label for the work of Jack

Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg, William Burroughs, Gregory Corso and the rest?

Howard Park

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Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 09:33:20 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: MARK NOFERI <NOFERI.MARK@EPAMAIL.EPA.GOV>

Subject: Jack and Jazz

Gerry,

Thanks for the response - wow, that's really interesting. Do you know who the

musicians he played with were on

those sessions? (Is Jack's singing voice as good as his reading voice?)

It's too bad this isn't out there in public view somehow...

Mark Noferi

May 28, 1997

Mark Noferi writes:

"I think Kerouac did meet many of the musicians through a friend in

the business, an agent, or record company man-- Gerry? or anyone?"

Dear Mark,

Yes, it was both an agent and a record company man--Jerry Newman. I

think the name of his record company was Esoteric, but I could be wrong

(told you all, brain going in old age). Newman recorded jack singing "Come

Rain or Come Shine" and other Sinatra favorites--improvising his own

lyrics!--with a real jazz backup. I have one hour of this stuff, which isnow

among the tapes under seal at U Mass,

Lowell. Supposedly Newman's widow

has about 20 more hours of such recordings--think about this, Rykodisc!--but

she's disappeared. Anybody heard of her whereabouts?

Best, Gerry Nicosia

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Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 20:10:02 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: how annoying some of these whiny people are!

In a message dated 97-05-29 19:58:58 EDT, you write:

<< He

>literally saved people's lives because he allowed them the space within

>his words to see that their thoughts were OK and that words were only

>just that...words. >>

JUST WORDS!!!!!!! words are not just words. they have a crazy power over us

that we do not yet fully comprehend. they are sound and form transformed

from their chaotic origins into meaningful order. Understanding the

mechanism whereby we produce language is the key to human thought and soul.

How does a sound/image produce such far-reaching paths of thought in us? Of

course, not all thought is in language, but do you realize how much words

affect us? Nothing exists until we give it a name, says so right there in

the Holy Book. The thing is not to dismiss words like yesterday's trash but

to recycle them into something new and use them for your own purposes (evil

laugh)

cheers, maya

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 19:26:07 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject: Re: how annoying some of these whiny people are!

Maya Gorton wrote:

> In a message dated 97-05-29 19:58:58 EDT, you write:

> << He

> >literally saved people's lives because he allowed them the space within

> >his words to see that their thoughts were OK and that words were only

> >just that...words. >>

> JUST WORDS!!!!!!! words are not just words. they have a crazy power over us

> that we do not yet fully comprehend. they are sound and form transformed

> from their chaotic origins into meaningful order. Understanding the

> mechanism whereby we produce language is the key to human thought and soul.

> How does a sound/image produce such far-reaching paths of thought in us? Of

> course, not all thought is in language, but do you realize how much words

> affect us? Nothing exists until we give it a name, says so right there in

> the Holy Book. The thing is not to dismiss words like yesterday's trash but

> to recycle them into something new and use them for your own purposes (evil

> laugh)

> cheers, maya

just words. as opposed to unjust words.

incredibly powerful tokens of life

but also just tokens of life

both true together at the same instant.

evil laughs ...........................

evil sounds ...........................

evil symbols ..........................

would evil exist if there were no word named evil? if evil ran rampant

in my closet would anyone know or care?

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

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Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 20:45:23 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Michael Czarnecki <peent@SERVTECH.COM>

Subject: Re: Beat History

>Just tossing out a question for discussion that seems to me is always at the

>root of the "who is beat" issue, whis IS the most enduring topic for

>discussion on this list notwithstanding the Kerouac estate issue.

>Is beat a style, not confined to a specific time, place or set of people?

>OR is beat something that is now and forever the label for the work of Jack

>Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg, William Burroughs, Gregory Corso and the rest?

>Howard Park

Ah, yes, a good question. I have a problem with the "is beat a style" part

only because of the word style (took a long time to get ok with hearing the

word god after catholic school upbringing), otherwise I really do feel it's

more a state of existence (don't know that's any better) that goes beyond

the time frame and immediacy of the core group.

Hell, I've committed my life to poetry and creativity and spiritual

exploring on a path mostly outside the mainstream. Poverty level existence

by gov't standards for last 14 years but never feeling (other when no

running car or ute's way over due) poor. Now, 46, more going on road, more

poetry than ever and still not worrying about retirement benefits, health

insurance etc. Old beat cars, no plastic and living for the sudden

enlightenment of the creative flash or at least a steady state creative

flowing of the juice. Would never consider calling myself beat, but

certainly "the style" of existence might be considered that.

Michael

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 20:35:54 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: talk dirty to me <mutton@JANE.PENN.COM>

i fuckin hope so

we lost the damn baseball game

i might get on the news though

we should have won

the boys done real good

i was proud

a kid hit a 3 run homer in the first fuckin

inning and we came back but lost three two

they never scored again

i felt bad

oh well

jerm

----------

: From: andrew szymczyk <trent@JANE.PENN.COM>

: To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

: Subject:

: Date: Thursday, May 29, 1997 3:38 PM

: argh,

: i forgot to mention this earlier, but i went to the

: surge festival last weekend in pittsburgh, pennsylvania,

: and to my enjoyment one of the bands played a song

: about kerouac. their name eludes me, but...

: the only thing that bothers me was that i felt

: like i was lost in a sea of people that didn't know whom

: kerouac was. still, my solitary delirium was wonderful.

: i felt like i should claw my way to the stage and shake

: their hands, but i only stood with an open mouth--

: --drooling.

: still drooling,

: andrew

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 19:57:26 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject: Re: how annoying some of these whiny people are!

RACE --- wrote:

> Maya Gorton wrote:

> >

> > In a message dated 97-05-29 19:58:58 EDT, you write:

> >

> > << He

> > >literally saved people's lives because he allowed them the space within

> > >his words to see that their thoughts were OK and that words were only

> > >just that...words. >>

> >

> > JUST WORDS!!!!!!! words are not just words. they have a crazy power over us

> > that we do not yet fully comprehend. they are sound and form transformed

> > from their chaotic origins into meaningful order. Understanding the

> > mechanism whereby we produce language is the key to human thought and soul.

> > How does a sound/image produce such far-reaching paths of thought in us? Of

> > course, not all thought is in language, but do you realize how much words

> > affect us? Nothing exists until we give it a name, says so right there in

> > the Holy Book. The thing is not to dismiss words like yesterday's trash but

> > to recycle them into something new and use them for your own purposes (evil

> > laugh)

> > cheers, maya

> just words. as opposed to unjust words.

acronomyal nightmares hit again

JUST

juanita unties substitute teacher.

> incredibly powerful tokens of life

> but also just tokens of life

> both true together at the same instant.

instant oatmeal in my

microwave i hear alien

preachers of redemption outside

my mesophere

and i dream of astral

hallucinations to reach the

preacher's poetic promises

of salvation and the

project splices pornographic

g-spots in rat poison advertisements

with the preacher's psalmistry

and the two thoughts

become one word

LIVE but

dsylexia forces

transpositions of alien thought beams

and EVIL is born

in my cortex

in kansas

by a river named Smoky

to kiss

the crossroads and goalposts

of failure and

videotape the whole

massacre

is my only real ambition.

> evil laughs ...........................

> david rhaesa

> salina, Kansas

keep in touch david,

your friend Rage -

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 20:48:49 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: talk dirty to me <mutton@JANE.PENN.COM>

ooops

sorry all

i was writing to a kid inquiring

how our team did in the district

playoffs. forgive the language

i was kinda perturbed

hehe

sorry

jeremy

----------

: From: talk dirty to me <mutton@JANE.PENN.COM>

: To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

: Subject:

: Date: Thursday, May 29, 1997 8:35 PM

: i fuckin hope so

: we lost the damn baseball game

: i might get on the news though

: we should have won

: the boys done real good

: i was proud

: a kid hit a 3 run homer in the first fuckin

: inning and we came back but lost three two

: they never scored again

: i felt bad

: oh well

: jerm

: ----------

: : From: andrew szymczyk <trent@JANE.PENN.COM>

: : To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

: : Subject:

: : Date: Thursday, May 29, 1997 3:38 PM

: :

: : argh,

: :

: : i forgot to mention this earlier, but i went to the

: : surge festival last weekend in pittsburgh, pennsylvania,

: : and to my enjoyment one of the bands played a song

: : about kerouac. their name eludes me, but...

: :

: : the only thing that bothers me was that i felt

: : like i was lost in a sea of people that didn't know whom

: : kerouac was. still, my solitary delirium was wonderful.

: : i felt like i should claw my way to the stage and shake

: : their hands, but i only stood with an open mouth--

: :

: : --drooling.

: :

: : still drooling,

: : andrew

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 22:47:39 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Dylan memories

In a message dated 97-05-29 01:07:13 EDT, Antoine writes:

<< Do you remember when you first heard

Dylan? ...and what was the most memorable hearing of him? >>

I first heard Dylan in San Francisco in 1964 at a small auditorium on Nob

Hill. I don't remember the name. Larry Ferlinghetti gave me the tickets. I

hadn't thought of that until today.

Pam Plymell

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 23:03:28 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: let's put the fun back in dysfunction!

In a message dated 97-05-29 09:44:24 EDT, you write:

<< I'll be in Gloversville, NY 10th and 11th of June, reading with Rhonda

Morton at coffeeshop and also young writers workshop/reading. How far's

that from CV? >>

We're in between Oneonta and Gloversville.

Pam

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 22:23:30 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Jeff Taylor <taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>

Subject: Re: What should I read?

In-Reply-To: <ECS9705291737A@smtp.uea.ac.uk>

On Thu, 29 May 1997, Thomas Harberd wrote:

> Try Ghost of Chance as well, because it's brilliant.

Yes, I agree....a great little book.

Has anyone read the (or a) nascent form of GoC which appeared as a short

story called "The ghost lemurs of Madagascar" in _New Statesman_ 19 (26

Dec 1986) pp.50-54. Covers all the stuff about Mission's relations with

the lemurs, and has some additional very interesting stuff which did not

make it into GoC.

*******

Jeff Taylor

taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

*******

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 00:16:03 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject: Re: how annoying some of these whiny people are!

Bill Gargan wrote:

> Diane, I couldn't agree more with your eloquent post. I think you

> should send a copy to Hilton Kramer.

Thanks. Maybe I'll submit it to the next issue of The New Criterion.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 23:38:47 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject: Re: Dylan memories

At 10:47 PM 5/29/97 -0400, Pam Plymell wrote:

>I first heard Dylan in San Francisco in 1964 at a small

>auditorium on Nob Hill. I don't remember the name.

>Larry Ferlinghetti gave me the tickets. I hadn't thought

>of that until today.

>Pam Plymell

11/27/64 - Masonic Memorial Auditorium, SF, CA

Would this be the one?

Mike

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 22:44:42 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Jeff Taylor <taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>

Subject: Re: Some of the Dharma

In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970529033254.006be388@pop.pipeline.com>

On Wed, 28 May 1997, Paul Maher wrote:

> Did you know Jack has a novel-length manuscript written in French called

> "The Night Is My Woman"? It will be published one day when it is fully

> translated.

Why not publish it in french? Surely there is a publisher in Quebec who

would bring it out?

> He also considered Vladimir Nabokov the "world's greatest, living

> writer" according to his inscribed copy of Lolita.

Yechh....say it aint so! I'd have to part company with Jack here. Nabokov

is the only (real) writer I've read who makes me wretch....a snide

cynicism....and not a trace of lyricism, as far as I could ever tell,

despite all the blurbs on the back of his books.

*******

Jeff Taylor

taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

*******

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 23:28:07 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Jeff Taylor <taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>

Subject: Burroughs; was Re: my condolences to whoever just "signed off"...

In-Reply-To: <970527110522_55665634@emout07.mail.aol.com>

On Tue, 27 May 1997, Maya Gorton wrote:

> With authorship comes responsibility but who in her left mind would want to

> take credit/get recognition for propelling fellow humans even faster towards

> the Inevitable by reconciling them with it? Is that the purpose of art, to

> heal? Is it possible to heal too much and in doing so forget about necessary

> pain?

WSB has said many times that the purpose of art is to make people aware

of what they know but dont know that they know.

He also said what is probably my favorite definition of art and the

activity of artists:

"...dreams are a biological necessity. If you deprive someone of the

dream state for more than 2 months they will die, no matter how much

dreamless sleep they are allowed. People hunger for dreams, they need

them. Dreams are not some kind of elite luxury.

What do artists do? They dream for other people. We dream for those

people who have no dreams of their own to keep them alive."

(_Painting and Guns_ p.46)

*******

Jeff Taylor

taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

*******

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 21:35:33 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject: Re: This List is Stong

>I'm troubled by people seeming to blame Nicosia for the conflicts...

May 29, 1997

While I still have my ten minutes of fame as the man who murdered

the Beat-List--or was it "set on fire"?--let me announce that the poetry

collection of the late Bob Kaufman's which I edited, CRANIAL GUITAR (Coffee

House Press), has just won the prestigious PEN CENTER USA West 1997 Literary

Award in Poetry.

Mr. Chaput called me the champion horn-tooter on the Beat-List, so

let me toot a little--TOOT! TOOT!--but mainly I feel glad to have played a

small role in getting Bob's work out again into the public arena, where

students and young writers and even old crypto writers can learn and be

inspired by it.

Bob Kaufman was one of the great American poets of the 20th century,

and it was an honor just to have been allowed to edit that collection. Mr.

Kaufman, take it away....

Bob bows in heaven, with Jack and Neal on either side.

(He's "Chuck Berman," the graceful mulatto hoofer in Kerouac's

DESOLATION ANGELS.)

Check out his poetry, buy CRANIAL GUITAR, and I can say that without

advertising, since I DON'T get royalties. It just helps out his widow Eileen.

Love to everyone, Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 21:37:42 -0700

Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject: Re: T-shirts

Jeffrey Weinberg wrote:

> In a message dated 97-05-29 09:48:34 EDT, you write:

> << Dear Jeff:

> Jeremy said it for many of us - keep the t-shirts coming! And, although I

> have failed to say it before --- thank you for going through the work

> regarding the shirts.

> Dawn

> >>

> Dawn: Thanks for your vote of confidence...

> Here's the latest news for all you Beat-L supporters and well-mannered polite

> members of Klub Kerouac:

> The S. Clay Wilson artwork for the shirt is completed and the shirts are

> being silkscreened now out in Oakland, California (giving the shirts a "Bay

> Area/San Francisco" birthplace)...

> S. Clay Wilson, well-reknowned for his work with R. Crumb and other

> underground cartoonists on ZAP comix, is a very detailed, meticulous

> arteeeste but I must say that working with him on this project has been a

> real pleasure....If you get a chance, check out his other stuff that's

> available...

> The Beat-L T-shirt shows a bearded and beret-headed old poet selling poems

> for spare change...a college coed/librarian type drops a coin in the tin cup

> as the Beat poet's heart flutters at her bountiful sight...The coed imagines

> a falling leaf as "sheer poetry" - a nice take-off on R. Crumb's famous image

> of a Ginsberg-type guy standing in a tenement NYC neighborhood watching a

> leaf fall through the air, thinking, "This to me is sheer poetry." (the Crumb

> image was used on the cover of

> Art Spiegelman/Bill Griffith's ARCADE a looong time ago and the image was

> recently

> re-issued on a Crumb signed/numbered silkscreen print) - WHOA - back to the

> subject,Jeffrey - you're floating away (again!) -

Jeffrey--

Thanks so much. I'm sending my order tonight.

The shirt is probably a great poison repellent.

To all those who think that your t-shirt posts are hidden propaganda,

you can show my backchannels (without fear of copyright lawsuit) urging

you to bring out something featuring a well known biographer as either

Captn Pissgums or Rudy the Dyke.

James

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 21:44:42 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject: Re: Jack and Jazz

At 09:33 AM 5/29/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Gerry,

>Thanks for the response - wow, that's really interesting. Do you know who the

> musicians he played with were on

>those sessions? (Is Jack's singing voice as good as his reading voice?)

>It's too bad this isn't out there in public view somehow...

>Mark Noferi

Mark, May 29, 1997

I don't know who the musicians were.

Jack's voice wasn't half bad (Jan's was a shade better--she sang in

San Francisco with bass accompaniment at one of her benefits--I'm still

trying to get the video from the guy who taped it)--but most of the time he

was more than a little drunk, which spoils it some. Also, he tries too hard

to consciously imitate Sinatra.

The reason the stuff was never released was Kerouac making off-color

and off-the-cuff and self-incriminating remarks like "this is dedicated to

Sue Somebody with the lovely, sexy, juicy box" and "roll me another one,

Jerry," etc. (Jerry Newman, the producer)

Best, Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 00:54:27 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: bEAT-L T-shirt

Just a quick note regarding previous T-shirt update...

The S. Clay Wilson Official Beat-L shirt is white ink printed On a black

shirt (not black on lt. blue as previously stated)...

Just a small detail that might matter to someone out there....

Best wishes -

Jeffrey

Beat-L T-shirt committee

waterrow@aol.com

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 21:59:07 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: "s.a. griffin" <perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>

Subject: Re: signoff

At 08:21 AM 5/27/97 -0600, you wrote:

>you all

>just thought i would let you know that i can take no more of the community

>erosion that has occured.

>i am signing off.

>please feel free to contact me if you would like to TALK beat or write

>poetry or just chat, my email is:

>dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca

>and im still hanging about the boho list as well.

>in the meantime i will miss all & hope one day i fell welcome again.

>your

>derek beaulieu

hey derek,

just thot that i'd respond to this. i haven't been inspired to read or post

on the list for almost a week now. i will be having a change of email in

just a few days, so i thought that i'd just fade away in terms of the list.

can't say that i feel like it means that much to anyone, i was only on for a

very short period of time, however, i did enjoy tremendously meeting you and

the others that helped to make my participation in the ginsberg memorial

what it became. also enjoyed the way the other piece was picked up and

transformed. i had hoped to get more of that happening, but alas, folks

just fall for the sad bad shit too easy i guess. as if there isn't enough

shit in our lives already... it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

tried to distill a few posts as deletion but it just didn't take, guess it

wasn't enough of a direct hit ya know? people really do have to be hit on

the head with it all i guess... i thot our audience was better than that.

post script a few days later: thursday

so here i have been lurking this past week or so, still too stunned by the

anger and bullshit to want to get on board. watching folks jump off the

sinking ship of the beatL. seems most of those abandoning the ss beat were

of the zen bent, the so called peacemakers maybe. keep thinking maybe i'll

get over it, that maybe i'm just too damned full of my own romantic ideas

about people and the big bad world in general. seems like the same old same

old really, for those that post, still a pissing contest on the list for the

most part. some few creative sparks here and there. the one thing that

seems evident however is this: death and near death seems to bring out some

of the only shreds of kindness up to and including the near fatal beat list

: and now our dear sick dylan who also zapped my life as well when hearing

hwy 61 (my personal fave). i do understand there is a dynamic to all, good

and bad, whatever; but i had hoped to find creative minds with creative

spirits attached when jumping on board, a true community of not just info,

but fresh ideas maybe. i was hoping for more than who knows what or who and

descending ultimately into the junvenille frat boy type chorus of fuck this

and that and yous. i guess we are all just human. i detest intellectual

bullies almost more than i detest physical bullies; i mean if you are gifted

enough to have achieved some sort of advanced light, shine man, don't burn;

there won't be much left to piss on in the afterburn; all you've done is to

help foul the dying landscape w/your poison. found the slighty yellowed

front page of the apr 6 l.a. times w/ginsberg's memorial front page outside

my apt on the street yesterday, ag holding howl in his hands reading

cockeyed to the world winking at heaven. it was a strange and beautiful

omen indeed as my poet pals and i were off for some adventuring in the old

Caddy. left it sitting on the front seat of the Caddy so that anyone

looking inside the car would read it. but dig this people, education & big

words don't mean shit when the real deal comes down your street and points

in your direction. the beats were, if nothing else to me, absolutely

oppopsed to academia and establishment bullshit. how many of our boys and

girls actually attended college and of those that did, how many finished? i

truly wish everyone well, the best, but go for the light man, that's it...

light. call me a weenie for being such a sap, but life is short ya know...

you gotta be here now.

all the best

xxxooo

s.a.

_______________________________________________________________________

Lorraine M. Perrotta email: lperrotta@huntington.edu

Acquisitions Librarian phone: 818-405-2184

The Huntington Library

1151 Oxford Road

San Marino, CA 91108

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 22:28:19 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: "s.a. griffin" <perrotta@USC.EDU>

Subject: websites to check out

here are a few websites to check out.

this first one is a "live" broadcast of the ginsberg tribute that I was a

part of may 10th at beyond baroque, I have no idea how long it will be up.

it has both audio and visual elements. includes myself, exene cervenkova,

lewis macadams, ellyn maybe and doug knott

http://www.lalive.com/exene/index.html

this second one is only up until the 31st of may. it is the carma bums

website, built at U of Wash Seattle, moved to USC. I will be reconstructing

parts as pieces of a new website of my own with other stuff, newer stuff,

and links. got some good graphics and words plus audio with radio show and

club blab.

http://www-lib.usc.edu/~perrotta/carmabums/

later

xxxooo

s.a.

_______________________________________________________________________

Lorraine M. Perrotta email: lperrotta@huntington.edu

Acquisitions Librarian phone: 818-405-2184

The Huntington Library

1151 Oxford Road

San Marino, CA 91108

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 02:07:10 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Jeff Taylor <taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>

Subject: Burroughs piece

In-Reply-To: <199705300459.VAA19135@calvin.usc.edu>

I think I have found a piece by Burroughs that did not get listed in the

most recent bibliography of WSB's writings, _William S. Burroughs: A

Reference Guide_ ed. Michael B. Goodman & Lemuel B. Coley. NY: Garland,

1990. (If I just overlooked where it is listed, please let me know!)

"The Parable of the Silent Heads" in _For Nelson Mandela_ ed. Jacques

Derrida & Mustapha Tlili. NY: Seaver Books, 1987, pp.115-116.

This a very short piece, less than 2 pages, but is vintage Burroughs, a

microcosm of the sort of shifts in scene and time evident esp., e.g., in

_Cities of the Red Night_.

*******

Jeff Taylor

taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

*******

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 02:39:56 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Jeff Taylor <taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>

Subject: Re: signoff

In-Reply-To: <199705300459.VAA19135@calvin.usc.edu>

On Thu, 29 May 1997, s.a. griffin wrote:

> in your direction. the beats were, if nothing else to me, absolutely

> oppopsed to academia and establishment bullshit. how many of our boys and

> girls actually attended college and of those that did, how many finished?

> Lorraine M. Perrotta

I'm not sure what you are talking about here.....

They may have been opposed to academic "bullshit" (and God knows there is

plenty of that), but I don't think that means they were necessarily opposed

to academia as such. Burroughs, Ginsberg, & Snyder all finished college,

the latter 2 eventually becoming university professors. Probably it is

like Burroughs said in _Western Lands_ (p.125):

"Knowledge takes many forms and contexts. Cloistered ivy-covered halls,

serious youths in academic garb....the typical is so often *not* where

it's at, deliberately avoided like a cliche, that it becomes in time

atypical, and by the inexorable logic of fashion, is again where it's at."

*******

Jeff Taylor

taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

*******

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 04:08:35 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Leitha Sackmann <lsackma@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>

Subject: Ginsberg Memorial and other stuff

Well, I just got back from the Big Apple and have finally gotten email at

home working so im happy to be logged in after a couple weeks absence. Did

any of you go to the natalie Merchant/Patti Smith Ginsberg memorial in Ann

Arbor last weekend? If noone has posted anything about the concert i'll be

glad to tell everyone how wonderful it was. Is there any update on the

t-shirts? So excited about those. went to a comic book store for the first

time in years today and asked if they had anything by S.Clay Wilson, but

alas, no luck. oh, i did very well on my independent study on the Beats.

Id be happy to share my paper with anyone. It's about the Beats and America

and Me. My professor wrote on the returned manuscript (i love bragging...):

"Matt, A noble and joyous work, Bravo! . . . I just can't make anymore

marks, so let this suffice: I loved it." Anyway, that made me happy and

thanks to all of you who helped me out on that. Tis all for now.

TGIF,

Not that it matters really to me cause im out of

school and sitting on my butt all week.

matt

*****************************************************************

"Everyone takes the limits of his own vision

for the limits of the world."

Arthur Schopenhauer

*****************************************************************

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 03:42:28 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Jeff Taylor <taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>

Subject: Re: how annoying some of these whiny people are!

In-Reply-To: <970529201001_1990266439@emout18.mail.aol.com>

On Thu, 29 May 1997, Maya Gorton wrote:

> JUST WORDS!!!!!!! words are not just words. they have a crazy power over us

> that we do not yet fully comprehend. they are sound and form transformed

> from their chaotic origins into meaningful order. Understanding the

> mechanism whereby we produce language is the key to human thought and soul.

> How does a sound/image produce such far-reaching paths of thought in us?

Yes....this is I think one of the guiding questions of Burroughs' work....

"What is a writer trying to do?" he asked somewhere....perhaps trying to

answer some of these questions....

Some of the people WSB mentions as having read were concerned with these

questions too.....Alfred Korzybski, Julian Jaynes.....I haven't read

Korzybski yet, but I did read Jaynes' book _The Origin of Consciousness

in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind_, a fascinating book....his thesis

is that before the last 2500 years or so, humans were not conscious at

all, and that everyday activites proceeded unconsciously....whenever a

decision had to be made, the right-brain would send a signal over to the

left-brain, which was experienced as hearing a voice telling you what to

do ("the voice of god"), much like present-day schizophrenics. He also

suggests that looking at idols helped set off these voices (thus

explaining the presence of idols at certain points in human history)--it

is apparently the case that looking at human figures, esp. if they have

large eyes, can set off auditory hallucinations.

Nowadays no one hears voices from statues--but look what we do instead!

We look at small black spots on a piece of paper or on a computer

monitor, and they cause us to hear words in our heads! Is this not just

as incredible and amazing? Books--our own strange little paper idols.

Perhaps someday people will no longer hear the words, or see any meaning,

in these little black marks, and just as today we think it silly to try

to get speech from a statue, people will regard the activity of reading

as some sort of idiotic superstition, while future archeologists will

wonder what function all these millions of bricks of paper could possibly

have served.....

Or here's another possibility:

"The language faculty is part of the overall architecture of the

mind/brain, interacting with its other components....The language faculty

*interfaces* with other components of the mind/brain. The interface

properties, imposed by systems among which language is embedded, set

contraints on what this faculty must be if it is to function....The

articulatory and perceptual systems, for example, require that

expressions of the language have a linear order at the interface;

sensorimotor systems that operated in parallel would allow richer modes

of expression of higher dimensionality." (N. Chomsky)

Could cut-ups be one way of getting around this limitation and operating in

parallel or at least emulating such operation? i.e., of allowing

you to think several thoughts at once, and to see their connections? I

sometimes get this feeling while reading certain cut-ups of WSB.

*******

Jeff Taylor

taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

*******

"A written word is the choicest of relics. It is something at once more

intimate with us and more universal than any other work of art. It is the

work of art nearest to life itself. It may be translated into every

language, and not only be read but actually breathed from all human lips;

--not be represented on canvas or in marble only, but be carved out of

the breath of life itself." Thoreau, _Walden_

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 03:53:08 -0600

Reply-To: stand666@bitstream.net

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: R&R Houff <stand666@BITSTREAM.NET>

Subject: CRANIAL GUITAR

Hello Gerald,

You did a fine job of editing CRANIAL GUITAR. It was a real joy

to see a heavy dose of Bob Kaufman's work back in print. Coffee House

Press is one of the few small publishers in the TC area that I care

about=97they continue to publish what they want and don't bow down to

the whims of the squares.

Richard Houff

Pariah Press

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 04:05:30 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Jeff Taylor <taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>

Subject: Re: Music...

In-Reply-To: <009B4BBE.DD712180.3@kenyon.edu>

On Sat, 24 May 1997, MORE OXY THAN MORON wrote:

> I agree with mc, the sound of Jack's voice has given me a much greater sense

> his rhythm when I read his books. Not all writers have Jack's great ability or

> wonderful voice for reading but we are lucky to have tapes of Jack. I highly

> recomend to all beginning readers of Kerouac to grab a tape of Jack reading

> from his own work, nothing like it.

I've always been sorta puzzled by this. I've had several friends I showed

some Burroughs stuff to, and they were completely indifferent to

it--until I played a WSB recording to them, when they were suddenly

ROTFL. But it seems to me, if it's funny on the recording, it's funny on

the page too....can't you hear the words in your head when you read?

One of the most significant things about Kerouac's writing, IMHO, is its

rhythm and tempo, which often is so forceful that you can just hear it

singing right from the page. I was actually disappointed the first time I

heard the recordings....now, I love to listen to them, but I don't think

they really add anything to what's already there on paper and which can

be recreated in your own head.

In fact, having to take a breath sometimes interrupts a rhythm that may be

distinctive to writing....esp. long passages written without punctuation

sometimes seem like they ought to form one uninterrupted phrase, which it

is not possible to talk through in one breath. This perhaps makes a sort

of disruption between writing and speaking, but perhaps not between the

writing and music--there is such a thing, when playing a horn, as

circular breathing, i.e., breathing in thru the nose while blowing out

thru the mouth, and by means of which you can hold a note indefinitely.

But I never heard of circular talking.

*******

Jeff Taylor

taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

*******

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 04:16:41 -0600

Reply-To: stand666@bitstream.net

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: R&R Houff <stand666@BITSTREAM.NET>

Subject: Dylan memories

Hello Pam,

Give Charles my best when he gets home. I wonder if he stopped over

in Milwaukee, to see Catfish. Anyway, on Dylan, it's wild-all the years

I spent playing Delta blues and in some of the same clubs we never

crossed paths. In '68, Leo Kottke was playing the Scholar Coffee House

-the same place Dylan used to play on the local scene. I was hanging

with Dave Ray and others at the Triangle Bar, the Scholar, etc. Dave

was older than me and knew Dylan real well. I managed to meet all of

my heroes like Muddy Waters, Bukka White, etc. but never met or heard

Dylan play live-and that's a damn shame on my part. Now I wished that

I could see him. He showed up for a Ray & Glover recording session

a few years ago right in my neighborhood. I was invited to attend and

didn't show. I won't let that happen again if the opportunity knocks

just-one-more-time.

Richard Houff

Pariah Press

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 04:20:38 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Jeff Taylor <taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>

Subject: Re: Influences on the Beats

In-Reply-To: <s3857398.072@DCSMTP.WICTOK7.EPA.GOV>

On Fri, 23 May 1997, MARK NOFERI wrote:

> About Beat precursors-

> The Kerouac-Wolfe connection, for one, is quite distinct, especially if you

look

> at Jack's early work. It's fun to sit down and read Wolfe's first novel, Look

> Homeward, Angel,

> and Kerouac's first, Town and the City, and see just how much Kerouac looked

> to Wolfe

> in those days - Kerouac's flowery prose about Lowell echoes Wolfe's about

> Asheville

I read _Look Homeward, Angel_ recently and am now in the middle of the

massive _Of Time and the River_, and Kerouac's similarity to Wolfe was

immediately apparent to me, although I can't quite put a finger on what

exactly--the dense, luminous descriptions of things? Although Wolfe is

much more repetetive than Kerouac.

And oh, the long litany to Coming Home in October that opens part 3 of

Wolfe's Time & River is absolutely amazing....I can see how Kerouac

picked that up.....

*******

Jeff Taylor

taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

*******

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 04:38:58 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Jeff Taylor <taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>

Subject: Re: Music...

In-Reply-To: <9704238644.AA864419931@Mail.ff.cc.mn.us>

On Fri, 23 May 1997, Wes Lundburg wrote:

> About six months ago, I reread _On The Road_ with Parker playing in the

> background as I read, and some portions of the novel were so much more

powerful

> as a result.

Two summers ago I read _Visions of Cody_ with (mostly) Parker and Billie

Holliday on, sipping a beer, and turned off the air conditioning and sat

outside of the open door in the heat and humidity of the 2am southern night.

This might seem silly at times, but it did seem to create an atmosphere

that enhanced the reading....

A long time ago I also used to sit by a fire on a winter night, reading

Dostoyevsky while sipping Stolichnaya and Rachmaninov playing on the stereo.

I bet we could come up with other good author/music pairings. How bout

reading Ayn Rand while listening to the Saturday Night Fever soundtrack? :)

*******

Jeff Taylor

taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

*******

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 04:52:38 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Jeff Taylor <taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>

Subject: Re: Stealing

In-Reply-To: <199705231945.MAA08517@freya.van.hookup.net>

On Fri, 23 May 1997, James William Marshall wrote:

> "Ryokan, a Zen master, lived the simplest kind of life in a little hut

> at the foot of a mountain. One evening a thief visited the hut only to

> discover there was nothing in it to steal.

> Ryokan returned and caught him. 'You may have come a long way to visit

> me,' he told the prowler, 'and you should not return empty-handed. Please

> take my clothes as a gift.'

> The thief was bewildered. He took the clothes and slunk away.

> Ryokan sat naked, watching the moon. 'Poor fellow,' he mused, 'I wish

> I could give him this beautiful moon.'

> Stolen from _Zen Flesh, Zen Bones: A Collection of Zen and Pre-Zen

> Writings_. Stolen by Paul Reps. Callously distributed by Anchor Books.

> Thoughtlessly published by Doubleday, 1989.

"The Literalists--or 'Lits' as they came to be called--actually put the

words of Christ into disastrous practice. Now Christ says if some son of

a bitch takes half your clothes, give him the other half. Accordingly,

Lits stalk the streets looking for muggers and strip themselves mother

naked at the sight of one. Many unfortunate muggers were crushed under

scrimmage pileups of half-naked Lits.....No doubt about it, brothers and

sisters, love is the answer. Let the love squirt out of you like a fire

hose of molasses....the Divine Lubricant, makes KY and lanolin feel like

sandpaper...." (WSB, _Ghost of Chance_)

Maybe Burroughs is a Buddhist after all..........;)

*******

Jeff Taylor

taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

*******

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 05:27:07 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject: Re: how annoying some of these whiny people are!

Jeff Taylor wrote:

> On Thu, 29 May 1997, Maya Gorton wrote:

> > JUST WORDS!!!!!!! words are not just words. they have a crazy power over us

> > that we do not yet fully comprehend. they are sound and form transformed

> > from their chaotic origins into meaningful order. Understanding the

> > mechanism whereby we produce language is the key to human thought and soul.

> > How does a sound/image produce such far-reaching paths of thought in us?

> Yes....this is I think one of the guiding questions of Burroughs' work....

> "What is a writer trying to do?" he asked somewhere....perhaps trying to

> answer some of these questions....

> Some of the people WSB mentions as having read were concerned with these

> questions too.....Alfred Korzybski, Julian Jaynes.....I haven't read

> Korzybski yet, but I did read Jaynes' book _The Origin of Consciousness

> in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind_, a fascinating book..

years since i'd read these - thanks for the reminders

..his thesis

> is that before the last 2500 years or so, humans were not conscious at

> all, and that everyday activites proceeded unconsciously..

i was at a mall last week and observing the various people hear and

there and between, it appeared that they were functioning nearly

unconsciously. habit and routine having become the new voices.

..whenever a

> decision had to be made, the right-brain would send a signal over to the

> left-brain, which was experienced as hearing a voice telling you what to

> do ("the voice of god"), much like present-day schizophrenics. He also

> suggests that looking at idols helped set off these voices (thus

> explaining the presence of idols at certain points in human history)--it

> is apparently the case that looking at human figures, esp. if they have

> large eyes, can set off auditory hallucinations.

> Nowadays no one hears voices from statues--but look what we do instead!

Some of us sometimes do hear voices and have visions from statues

still. Only now such a condition is treated with chemicals like

Halperidol, Thoradazine and the same ilk. Very rough medicines. But a

note of warning - after be given a shot of Halperidol, a hit of LSD does

not necessarily work as an effective chemical counter-agent. :)

> We look at small black spots on a piece of paper or on a computer

> monitor, and they cause us to hear words in our heads! Is this not just

> as incredible and amazing? Books--our own strange little paper idols.

> Perhaps someday people will no longer hear the words, or see any meaning,

> in these little black marks, and just as today we think it silly to try

> to get speech from a statue, people will regard the activity of reading

> as some sort of idiotic superstition, while future archeologists will

> wonder what function all these millions of bricks of paper could possibly

> have served.....

> Or here's another possibility:

> "The language faculty is part of the overall architecture of the

> mind/brain, interacting with its other components....The language faculty

> *interfaces* with other components of the mind/brain. The interface

> properties, imposed by systems among which language is embedded, set

> contraints on what this faculty must be if it is to function....The

> articulatory and perceptual systems, for example, require that

> expressions of the language have a linear order at the interface;

> sensorimotor systems that operated in parallel would allow richer modes

> of expression of higher dimensionality." (N. Chomsky)

> Could cut-ups be one way of getting around this limitation and operating in

> parallel or at least emulating such operation?

definitely. this is the cutting through the pre-recorded universe

notion.

i.e., of allowing

> you to think several thoughts at once, and to see their connections? I

> sometimes get this feeling while reading certain cut-ups of WSB.

> *******

> Jeff Taylor

> taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

> *******

> "A written word is the choicest of relics. It is something at once more

> intimate with us and more universal than any other work of art. It is the

> work of art nearest to life itself. It may be translated into every

> language, and not only be read but actually breathed from all human lips;

> --not be represented on canvas or in marble only, but be carved out of

> the breath of life itself." Thoreau, _Walden_

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 05:37:26 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject: Re: Stealing

Jeff Taylor wrote:

> On Fri, 23 May 1997, James William Marshall wrote:

> > "Ryokan, a Zen master, lived the simplest kind of life in a little hut

> > at the foot of a mountain. One evening a thief visited the hut only to

> > discover there was nothing in it to steal.

> > Ryokan returned and caught him. 'You may have come a long way to visit

> > me,' he told the prowler, 'and you should not return empty-handed. Please

> > take my clothes as a gift.'

> > The thief was bewildered. He took the clothes and slunk away.

> > Ryokan sat naked, watching the moon. 'Poor fellow,' he mused, 'I wish

> > I could give him this beautiful moon.'

> >

> > Stolen from _Zen Flesh, Zen Bones: A Collection of Zen and Pre-Zen

> > Writings_. Stolen by Paul Reps. Callously distributed by Anchor Books.

> > Thoughtlessly published by Doubleday, 1989.

> "The Literalists--or 'Lits' as they came to be called--actually put the

> words of Christ into disastrous practice. Now Christ says if some son of

> a bitch takes half your clothes, give him the other half. Accordingly,

> Lits stalk the streets looking for muggers and strip themselves mother

> naked at the sight of one. Many unfortunate muggers were crushed under

> scrimmage pileups of half-naked Lits.....No doubt about it, brothers and

> sisters, love is the answer. Let the love squirt out of you like a fire

> hose of molasses....the Divine Lubricant, makes KY and lanolin feel like

> sandpaper...." (WSB, _Ghost of Chance_)

> Maybe Burroughs is a Buddhist after all..........;)

> *******

> Jeff Taylor

> taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

> *******

His notion of "DO EZ" is a Western explanation of many Zen methods.

Where was that "Exterminator"? Used to read "DO EZ" nearly every day.

Unfortunately sent all my burroughs to Evergreen CO for Hannukah and now

i just don't do anything anymore.

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 09:37:03 EDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Fred Bogin <FDBBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Organization: Brooklyn College Library

Subject: Current subscribers

As of this moment (9:36am EDT, May 30) there are 248 subscribers to

beat-l.

fred

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 09:40:23 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: how annoying some of these whiny people are!

Ferlinghetti, dog---probably!!!

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 08:47:42 +0000

Reply-To: jhasbro@tezcat.com

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: JWHasbrouck <jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>

Subject: All Things

All things considered, I think the Beat-l list is far more interesting

now than it has been at any time during the last two years or so during

which I've been a subscriber.

John Hasbrouck, LurkMaster

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 10:06:34 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: how annoying some of these whiny people are!

In a message dated 97-05-30 07:06:12 EDT, you write: