=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 00:50:16 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and Why?

 

RACE --- wrote:

>

>

> in another direction, i don't think that jerry c. comprehends what is

> being suggested when he likens it to 'turning the other cheek'.  i think

> it is much more 'picking your punches'.  gerry n. seems to counter-punch

> at the stupidest comments with full rhetorical flare.  it is difficult

> for me to distinguish which comments he finds credible and which he

> senses are made of straw when the power of the replies is the same

> regardless of the content of the previous posts.

> David,

 

Thank you for describing more clearly what I was trying to say, which is

not so much "turn the other cheek" as it is "picking your punches."

 

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 23:10:34 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Untitled

 

Bentz,

 

        This is the one that really grabbed me - particularly the ominous

final line.

 

                Antoine ...listening to "Leo Kottke Live"

 

        ************

 

>Untitled and unfinished

>

>The cabooseless train crawls by the queue of cars.

>She walks around the barrier.

>Off white sweater, black pants, horn rims,

>Mid-calf boots and a look like life had worn her out.

>Her flayed red hair sprawled like pampass grass untrimed.

>

>I could see her mother's dreams hovering above

>Her sad trail, the fear that all of that tiny spark could evaporate.

>Something has taken her over--

>It is racking her posture.

>It is stealing the light from her eyes.

>It is leaving behind a shell of dreams,

>As big as anyones.

>Dreams stillborn in the grass,

>Wrapped in a bag and dumped in a dumpster.

>Dreams trailing in the wakeof trains

>That run over humans,

>Dreams left driftiing in the ebb and flow

>Of this great city.

>Dreams washed to the bank,

>Wrung out, lifeless, or barely alive.

>

>She walks around the barrier.

>

>Bentz Kirby

>1995

>Columbia, SC

>

>--

>Bentz

>bocelts@scsn.net

>

>http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

>

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

     "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"

                        -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 01:27:06 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and Why?

 

Gerald Nicosia wrote:

>

>                                                 May 31, 1997

 

>         I am pursuing the gentlest means possible to end this kind of

> coercion--for that is what it is--but I will not give up until it is indeed

> ended.

>         And yes, by the way, slander does hurt.  It hurt Jan's cause a good

> deal while she lived, and it is hurting my efforts to carry on her cause:

> which is the saving of Jack Kerouac's archive for posterity.

>         Yours truly, Gerald Nicosia

 

Gerald,

 

I do understand the anger and hurt you must feel.  I know that it is a

highly emotional situation.  I have felt from the beginning of all of

this that your cause was noble, and I respect the fact that you intend

to follow it to its legal resolution.  I would respect you for

carrying out a friend's last wishes even if it wasn't the Kerouac

archives we were talking about.  That is why I think you should be the

one to continue to put forth logical, valid arguments with the facts and

avoid responding to verbal barrages that are no more than just that. All

I am saying is don't weaken your position with your own words. Let the

facts speak for themselves.

 

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 23:58:40 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and Why?

 

Diane Carter wrote:

>

> Gerald Nicosia wrote:

> >

> >                                                 May 31, 1997

>

> >         I am pursuing the gentlest means possible to end this kind of

> > coercion--for that is what it is--but I will not give up until it is indeed

> > ended.

> >         And yes, by the way, slander does hurt.  It hurt Jan's cause a good

> > deal while she lived, and it is hurting my efforts to carry on her cause:

> > which is the saving of Jack Kerouac's archive for posterity.

> >         Yours truly, Gerald Nicosia

>

> Gerald,

>

> I do understand the anger and hurt you must feel.  I know that it is a

> highly emotional situation.  I have felt from the beginning of all of

> this that your cause was noble, and I respect the fact that you intend

> to follow it to its legal resolution.  I would respect you for

> carrying out a friend's last wishes even if it wasn't the Kerouac

> archives we were talking about.  That is why I think you should be the

> one to continue to put forth logical, valid arguments with the facts and

> avoid responding to verbal barrages that are no more than just that. All

> I am saying is don't weaken your position with your own words. Let the

> facts speak for themselves.

>

> patricia wrote,

It would be a wonderful world if ignoring ignoble attacks worked. I had

a good reputation and it was hard earned, my boss gave me a minion that

disquised the truth with every known dressing except honesty.  She

accused me almost daily of such a wide variety of things that i decided

she was dangerously insane, when she brought up bizarre and unproven

accusations my boss looked at me and said, prove they are not so. I

almost had a nervous break down, i thought that the fact that i was

telling the truth and had a track record would speak for me. well she is

still at the job, i am out and he smirks , he used her to get me out

because he wasn't so found of the truth or me. I hear she is pointed in

a new direction, doing his dirty work for him,  I have no thought that

he won't retire with honors. It is very hard to fight accusations and

contorted lies.  the probalby best way is to call them on it and somehow

fight the shadows and smoke with fact.  If this is the type of shit you

have had to deal with for years and  seen it wear down and exhaust

others then you have my heart.  I am farther away from my own experiance

but while i am working on forgiving them i won't forget the lessons.

The winding serpants lie is poisonous, don't unravel their shit so much

continue stating the truth. don't bother trying to explain their nature

their posts show it.

 

and by the way. thanks for dropping the counter attacks, the list is

producing jewels again.

patricia

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 01:30:57 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Paul Maher <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and Why?

 

At 08:40 AM 5/31/97 -0700, you wrote:

>                                                May 31, 1997

>Maya Gorton writes:

>>Why don't you too faggots e-mail each other instead of bombarding us innocent

>>listees with your petty drivel?

>

>Dear Maya,

>        I have been happily married to my second wife (a woman) for five years.

>        I don't care to exchange libelous exchanges with Mr. Chaput on or

>off the list.

>        Mr. Gargan and several others, including myself, have tried very

>hard to get the dialogue on this List back within legal and civilized

>parameters, i.e., to get rid of the libel, slander, defamation, and printing

>of people's private letters, which is also illegal.

>        Every time we do, Mr. Chaput or one of his allies, like Mr. Maher,

>comes back with a tirade of verbal abuse and verbal assault against me--the

>same tactics, by the way, that were used to try to shut down Brad Parker and

>his independent Kerouac events in Lowell.

>        At the same time, Mr. Chaput and a few others have been quick to

>point their finger at me as the person who is destroying the Beat-List.

>        The reality is: MR. CHAPUT AND HIS COHORTS ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE

>ENDANGERING THIS LIST.

>        They are putting me in the untenable position of 1) either having to

>leave the list myself; or 2) take legal action against Brooklyn College and

>the Beat-List for distributing this libelous material--NEITHER OF WHICH I

>WANT TO DO.

>        I.e., either I allow the bullies to win yet another victory (like

>the victory they won when they dragged a 100-pound invalid, Jan Kerouac, out

>of the Jack Kerouac Conference at NYU) or I do possible harm to the Beat

>forum which all of you enjoy so much.

>        I do not like being put in this position.  And I suggest if you

>really care about the Beat-List--all of you--that you tell Mr. Chaput and

>Mr. Maher now that you want them TO IMMEDIATELY STOP CREATING THIS DANGEROUS

>DILEMMA.

>        You might ask yourself, why are they doing this?

>        As you say, if they don't like my messages, they can simply delete

>them.  I am not writing anything that is a verbal assault on their career,

>their personal life, etc., as they are doing to me.

>        The truth is, I believe, that they (for certain very definite

>political reasons) cannot stand the idea that Gerald Nicosia is on the Beat

>List and able to speak to 200 Beat fans and scholars in a quiet, reasonable

>forum.

>        So they have determined to get me off in any way they can--and the

>only way they know how is to act as bullies.  It is the way that has worked

>for them so far.  But I am determined it is not going to work for them this

>time.

>        Thanks for listening.

>        Best always, Gerry Nicosia

>Delusional as usual Mr. Nicosia..........I haven't posted anything to or

about your sorry ass in a week....

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 02:03:54 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      poem for Allen Ginsberg

 

After Allen Ginsberg's death it took me a while to write a poem.  Things

needed to settle down in my mind a bit, I guess.  But here's one I think

I'm ready to share now.

 

Allen Ginsberg poet dead at 70

 

You were prepared to meet death I think

I am not

also not prepared to know that you are gone from this place

I never met you in person yet I knew you intimately

felt your skin

felt what lie underneath

1975 or 76 I don't know exactly

your voice chanting howl from an old record

stolen from the college library

my stereo speakers were broken

your voice was scratchy but clear

I was lost in Molach

lost in my own madhouse

the privacy of my own mind

I couldn't get out

a private Molach

long days pounding at a typewriter that lost my words as soon as

I saw them

I wanted to see something see anything

I thought you were a visionary

I knew that you were

I saw Prometheus pushing a rock up the hill over and over again

I felt sorry for Prometheus

Sorry as I listened to Jim Croce and wondered what it would be like

to know what you want and then be dead

dead and gone

gone and where

back to your mother

to the cold luminous steel of the walls closing in

walls of the mind

walls shouting at you and at me

then I felt as old as the earth itself

like Dedalus unable to embrace the great mother

see the cycle of the river

no the river is littered with garbage like the filthy passaic

too many beer bottles too few sunflowers

I drank in my pain it did not go away

I drank some more

searching for illusions

ghosts of a once fragile existence

where are you going now

where have you gone

the journey of the soul is your's now

I will never be ready for that

I am ready now only to embrace my own humanness

your humanness

the frailty of passing

peeing in the night crouched low so no one can see

where beyond fingernails and skin and teeth does life reside?

once I wanted to die

I knew the fate of utter aloneness

does that pass for oneness with the universe?

crying babies bashing out their brains in the night of eternity

bars closed

everyone gone somewhere into the night

oh it is dark and cold

across America across the American sky

are you eternal?

are you one with the eternal one?

death is a shout in the dark or maybe that is wrong

maybe it is life that is the shout in the dark

I found in you the faith to be me

to continue to shout long after the people had passed

I will shout for you now that you are gone

like an eternal echo

there are lines and planes and penuses mixed with flowers and green grass

and water soaked with oil and blood

come back now and speak to me

do it now

do it soon

I am not ready to die.

 

Diane Carter

May 11, 1997

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 01:35:40 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Paul Maher <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and Why?

 

At 10:51 AM 5/31/97 -0700, you wrote:

>                                        May 31, 1997

>Annie Shank writes:

>>Hey, I just got here.  And I was hoping to find further discourse of the

>>kind I enjoyed with Lee Bartlett for an entire semester just past...

>...   Can we talk about the literature for a change?

>

>Annie,

>        I couldn't agree with you more.  But do you want to belong to a

>Beat-List where a gang of 2 or 3 bullies can force anyone off the list,

>whenever they so choose, just by applying an endless, unchecked stream of

>verbal abuse to that targeted person?

>        There's been a lot of hoo-ha about free speech and censorship in Mr.

>Chaput's past few posts.  There is nothing in the U.S. Constitution that

>guarantees one person the right to verbally abuse and/or verbally damage

>another person.  To claim that one has the right to libel and verbally

>assault another person ("Hey, you dirty Jew!"  "Hey, you dirty nigger!"

>"Hey, you dirty wop!") is a lot closer to fascism than the democracy I grew

>up learning about.

>        I want to talk about literature too, but I also want a Beat-List

>where I'm free to speak sound, rational, level-headed opinions--even if it's

>about the Kerouac Estate--without two or three guys jumping at me with

>vicious verbal attacks on my career, my personal life, my income, and

>anything else they can think of.

>        Don't you want that too?

>        Respectfully, Gerald Nicosia

>Whatever you do though Annie...don't say anything about Gerry Nicosia or

his priceless scholarship because as you will find out thereafter...you will

always be wrong.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 01:47:04 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Paul Maher <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and Why?

 

>Who's on Nicosia's side?   He's standing there alone taking a hammering and

>people post to HIM that HE should turn the other cheek!

POOR BABY.....

 That's nonsense!

AND THE WHOLE WORLD IS UNFAIR

> You walk in his shoes for a while and see how long you'd keep silent.

No thank-you....I dare not tread where Master Gerry has travelled...

  Every

>time one of these people shoots these flames toward Gerry substitute YOUR

>NAME where his is and see how long you could stand it.

**********So then what would my reaction be?????????

  You're living in a

>dream world if you expect Gerry to stay silent on this.  He's not going to do

>it!  I wouldn't!  And I bet you wouldn't either!

*******Boy you really made a point there!

>

>The way to bring PEACE to this list is to silence the attackers. Try doing

>that for a while and see what the results are.

 

****Go ahead, silence us so that gerry can have the whole boat to himself

then he can really pontificate his propaganda....

>

>Peace!

>

>That is all and well good...but why is everybody so stuck on him being

right all the time?

Your all in for a big surprise one day....Cimino, your just as bad. i only

respond "negatively" when Nicosia opens his big mouth. What would you like

me to do? Inform me privately...I will tell you what I am up against. I

could care less about Nicosia and his issues but he constantly has to bring

me up. I was staying quiet because I was fed up and bored with the whole

thing but then YOU and Nicosia bring my name into the picture.  Please......

>

>Jerry Cimino

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 01:49:59 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Paul Maher <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: All Things

 

At 09:08 PM 5/31/97 -0400, you wrote:

>No, Gerry did not kill the beat list.  Nor did Rod or Phil.

>

>But there were times that the prospect of "distroying the village in order to

>save it" seemed possible (A phrase that some Vietnam-era General or somebody

>used to explain the distruction of a real village, know who Gerry?).  There

>is a time to let fly, even to threaten peacefully.

>

>I never said much during our most notable (and I suspect most enduring) flame

>war, because I had no first hand knowledge to contribute.  Now that things

>have settled just a bit, my opinion is that in the best of all possible

>worlds I support the vision of Gerry Nicosea.  All of Jack's papers in one

>accessable place to promote Kerouac scholarship and study throughout the

>ages.  I think that is Gerry's vision.  If not, I humbly apologize for

>misstating your vision.

 

No....Gerry's vision is to have the estate to himself because he is scared

that when the authorized bio is written his book will be outdated and

useless. But it may not take that long. I think Ellis Amburn's book will

chop up his book good and plenty.

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 01:51:57 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Paul Maher <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and Why?

 

At 06:14 PM 5/31/97 -0700, you wrote:

>                                                May 31, 1997

>Diane Carter writes:

>

>.  Why don't you erase the anger

>>from your own posts and only respond in a rational, level-headed way.  If

>>you truly want to be respected here, stop engaging in the battle.

>>

>

>Diane,  I have erased my anger.  But that doesn't mean I want or should be

>subjected to a stream of abuse every time I turn on my computer.

>        Imagine, can you, how you would feel if every day when you went to

>log onto the Beat List, people were accusing you of various actual crimes

>you didn't commit, insulting you and your family, telling you you dare not

>mention the name of a famous man without "disgracing" him from your polluted

>lips, etc.

>        This cannot be allowed to go on, if this list is not to become the

>property of a few arrogant individuals who feel they can intimidate and

>drive off any discussion they do not like--drive if off, not with cogent,

>intelligent argument, but drive it off with the most vicious and disgusting

>tactics.

>        I am pursuing the gentlest means possible to end this kind of

>coercion--for that is what it is--but I will not give up until it is indeed

>ended.

>        And yes, by the way, slander does hurt.  It hurt Jan's cause a good

>deal while she lived, and it is hurting my efforts to carry on my cause to

have the estate to myself so that I can prevent my book from becoming obsolete.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 01:43:09 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Dixon Edmiston <DIXCIN@AOL.COM>

Subject:      no subject

 

test of scuttling claws from Altoona-test only

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 00:46:53 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "William H. Rose, III" <schpill@EXECPC.COM>

Subject:      Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and Why?

 

Gerry,

        Please, lighten up a bit will you.  I was under the impression

that the Beat-L list was for the gathering and discussing of information

concerning the beat writers and their literature. You have managed to

write an informative and well-written 700+ page book on the life of Jack

Kerouac and yet in the past month all you have posted is pure emotional

backlash. How about contributing to the base knowledge of what the beat

generation really stands for? Every post you make seems to contain the

words libel, law suit, sue, etc. Get back to the basics and tell us

about Jack and Neal and Bill and Al. I'm sure that you have a great deal

that you could contribute about the men and women we wish to discuss. I,

for one, would much rather hear you speak as emotionally about them as

you do about all the legal matters and personal issues with others that

you have concerned yourself with. When are you going to tell us about

Jack and his youth, how and why he wrote Dr. Sax or anything else that

relates to the SUBJECT AT HAND? By all means, fight your good fight, but

do it on the battlefield (read courtroom) and not in my living room.

Thanks,

        Bill.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 00:42:15 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Bill gargon help

 

Bill, I like a good argument but this isn't good where people get to say

crap, disquise the own words as gn's.

p ( of course list father is not a position i really want any one in but

as list mother i would like more intellectual meat and less beatting the

meat.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 02:14:22 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Paul Maher <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and Why?

 

At 08:40 AM 5/31/97 -0700, you wrote:

>                                                May 31, 1997

>Maya Gorton writes:

>>Why don't you too faggots e-mail each other instead of bombarding us innocent

>>listees with your petty drivel?

>

>Dear Maya,

>        I have been happily married to my second wife (a woman) for five years.

>        I don't care to exchange libelous exchanges with Mr. Chaput on or

>off the list.

>        Mr. Gargan and several others, including myself, have tried very

>hard to get the dialogue on this List back within legal and civilized

>parameters, i.e., to get rid of the libel, slander, defamation, and printing

>of people's private letters, which is also illegal.

>        Every time we do, Mr. Chaput or one of his allies, like Mr. Maher,

>comes back with a tirade of verbal abuse and verbal assault against me--the

>same tactics, by the way, that were used to try to shut down Brad Parker and

>his independent Kerouac events in Lowell.

>        At the same time, Mr. Chaput and a few others have been quick to

>point their finger at me as the person who is destroying the Beat-List.

>        The reality is: MR. CHAPUT AND HIS COHORTS ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE

>ENDANGERING THIS LIST.

>        They are putting me in the untenable position of 1) either having to

>leave the list myself; or 2) take legal action against Brooklyn College and

>the Beat-List for distributing this libelous material--NEITHER OF WHICH I

>WANT TO DO.

>        I.e., either I allow the bullies to win yet another victory (like

>the victory they won when they dragged a 100-pound invalid, Jan Kerouac, out

>of the Jack Kerouac Conference at NYU) or I do possible harm to the Beat

>forum which all of you enjoy so much.

>        I do not like being put in this position.  And I suggest if you

>really care about the Beat-List--all of you--that you tell Mr. Chaput and

>Mr. Maher now that you want them TO IMMEDIATELY STOP CREATING THIS DANGEROUS

>DILEMMA.

>        You might ask yourself, why are they doing this?

 

 

Who is the bully now? Do you feel yourself being slowly revealed for who you

are by two people who are in the know so you cleverly try to bounce us out

of the list by making ultimatums to a university? Please people how can you

swallow this crap....just because someone wrote a book doesn't make them

instant celebrity. You will never attract real Beat writers on this list

BECAUSE of Nicosia!!!!!

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 02:40:47 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Dirk Vulgate <BIGDUCK2@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and Why?

 

In a message dated 97-06-01 02:00:41 EDT, Gerry Nicosia wrote:

 

<<         They are putting me in the untenable position of 1) either having

to

 >leave the list myself; or 2) take legal action against Brooklyn College and

 >the Beat-List for distributing this libelous material--NEITHER OF WHICH I

 >WANT TO DO.

 >       I do not like being put in this position.  And I suggest if you

 >really care about the Beat-List

 

--ALL OF YOU-- (emphasis mine)

 

that you tell Mr. Chaput and Mr. Maher now that you want them TO IMMEDIATELY

STOP CREATING THIS DANGEROUS DILEMMA. >>

 

***************************************************

 

     I don't see Gerry Nicosia's leaving the list as dangerous at all. We've

already lost a dozen valuable longtime lively members. They are no longer

with us sharing their well-founded opinions, knowledge and sense of humor

because they have found they cannot have a rational discussion with Nicosia.

I think losing the will (or feeling too intimidated) to express oneself in

this formerly free-wheeling forum is where the true danger lies.

     I invite everyone who no longer wants to hear what Gerald Nicosia has to

say to simply stop responding to his posts. We can put his mind to rest and

save him the agony of needing to sue anyone if we just all agree to shut up,

right? Then we will have our Beat-L list back.

     After all, what is the sound of one hand clapping?

Sincerely yours,

Dirk Vulgate, Jr. (dv2)

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 00:15:38 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and Why?

 

>Who is the bully now? Do you feel yourself being slowly revealed for who you

>are by two people who are in the know so you cleverly try to bounce us out

>of the list by making ultimatums to a university? Please people how can you

>swallow this crap....just because someone wrote a book doesn't make them

>instant celebrity. You will never attract real Beat writers on this list

>BECAUSE of Nicosia!!!!!

 

Sorry Paul but I have been reading these threads for a while now as an

objective outside observer.  I have no affiliation with anyone having

anything to do with beat literature or publishing or the estate or estate

battle.

 

I have learned a lot about the doings of the estate and kerouac scholarship

and how people can access or not access the "data"--ie the his noteboks

etc... For example if someone was interested enough to write a book about

kerouac's literary influences they would need to be able to read the study

and make notes of kerouac's archives.

 

In all this it is clear that Nicosia is right about where Kerouac's

archives should be and their availiability to researchers should be equal

and open.

 

The estate battle and forged wills I don't know about nor could i know.

 

But even if there were not opposing claims to the motherlode, Nicosia's

comments are important and right.  For a major writer of the 20th century

(something we here at the beat-l have known, but the mainstream is just

beginning to pick up on) not to have his papers treated in the most

aboveboard scholarly and academic manner (ie all of them kept together as

much as possible at an institute where scholars and others interested can

access them equally) is a crime against literature and against the readers

of the world.

 

Nicosia is not talking crap.

 

He does have the flair for rhetoric and can lay it on thick which can make

people miss his main important points.

 

Points all of us must agree with I would think.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 03:22:01 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Re: Untitled

 

Antoine Maloney wrote:

 

> Bentz,

>

>         This is the one that really grabbed me - particularly the

> ominous

> final line.

>

>                 Antoine ...listening to "Leo Kottke Live"

>

>         ************

>

> >Untitled and unfinished

> >

> >The cabooseless train crawls by the queue of cars.

> >She walks around the barrier.

> >Off white sweater, black pants, horn rims,

> >Mid-calf boots and a look like life had worn her out.

> >Her flayed red hair sprawled like pampass grass untrimed.

> >

> >I could see her mother's dreams hovering above

> >Her sad trail, the fear that all of that tiny spark could evaporate.

> >Something has taken her over--

> >It is racking her posture.

> >It is stealing the light from her eyes.

> >It is leaving behind a shell of dreams,

> >As big as anyones.

> >Dreams stillborn in the grass,

> >Wrapped in a bag and dumped in a dumpster.

> >Dreams trailing in the wakeof trains

> >That run over humans,

> >Dreams left driftiing in the ebb and flow

> >Of this great city.

> >Dreams washed to the bank,

> >Wrung out, lifeless, or barely alive.

> >

> >She walks around the barrier.

> >

> >Bentz Kirby

> >1995

> >Columbia, SC

> >

> >--

> >Bentz

> >bocelts@scsn.net

> >

> >http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

> >

>  Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

>

>      "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what

> to do!"

>                         -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips

 

 Antoine:

 

Thank you.  That poem is about a year old though I am still working on

it.  I was watching this woman one day who was on foot as we waited for

the train to go by.  She was headed to give plasma for blood.  As the

train went by, she walked around the barrier long before the cars could

go, but she was walking to some depressing something of no hope.  It

just struck a chord.  I am touched by the fact that I was able to report

the experience and someone "got it."  Thank you.

 

Peace,

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 03:37:12 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Paul Mayer proves the point

 

Paul you wrote this:

>Whatever you do though Annie...don't say anything about Gerry Nicosia

or

his priceless scholarship because as you will find out thereafter...you

will

always be wrong.

 

Please stop making personal attacks on other members off the list.  The

owner and many of us have requested that you stop.  I hope that Gerry

will let this die, but you continue own despite the fact you know that

the owner of the list has asked you to stop.  If you have something bad

to say about someone who is a member or person or alive or dead, take it

back channel unless it is critisim and not personal.

 

I am tired of personal attacks on members of this list.  We get what you

think.  Please be civil.

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 03:42:46 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Calling Dirk Vulgate

 

Dirk,

 

I do not believe you are a real person.  Please e-mail me privately with your

phone number so I can call you and we can talk like gentlemen - no shouting,

I promise!

 

Jerry Cimino

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 03:38:38 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Re: Bill gargon help

 

Patricia Elliott wrote:

 

> Bill, I like a good argument but this isn't good where people get to

> say

> crap, disquise the own words as gn's.

> p ( of course list father is not a position i really want any one in

> but

> as list mother i would like more intellectual meat and less beatting

> the

> meat.

 

 Patricia:

 

Thank you and LOL.

 

Bill,

 

Please remind those who continue the personal attacks that this is not

approriate.

 

Thanks.

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 00:46:25 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Malcolm Lawrence <Malcolm@WOLFENET.COM>

Subject:      The Unveiling

 

If anyone is interested, my website is finally ready. Without further ado, I

 give you:

 

Splashing Heart

 

http://www.wolfenet.com/~malcolm

 

Valentines of the world, unite and take over.

 

Enjoy!

 

Malcs

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 03:42:43 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Please stop this

 

POOR BABY.....

 That's nonsense!

AND THE WHOLE WORLD IS UNFAIR

 

-- ****Go ahead, silence us so that gerry can have the whole boat to

himself

then he can really pontificate his propaganda....

 

Your all in for a big surprise one day....Cimino, your just as bad. i

only

respond "negatively" when Nicosia opens his big mouth. What would you

like

me to do? Inform me privately...I will tell you what I am up against. I

could care less about Nicosia and his issues but he constantly has to

bring

me up. I was staying quiet because I was fed up and bored with the whole

 

thing but then YOU and Nicosia bring my name into the picture.

Please......

Paul:

 

What is it exactly that you are saying here?  I have yet to find any

discussoin of anything in your post.  It simply involves your personal

thing with Gerry.  Take it off the list.

 

Thank you,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 03:47:49 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Paul Mayer

 

 and it is hurting my efforts to carry on my cause to

have the estate to myself so that I can prevent my book from becoming

obsolete.

 

Paul, have you no self respect.  This is a post that is intended to make

it look like Gerry said this.  You should be embarrassed.  Why do this

in public?

 

I hope that someone else out there will respond to this either publicly

or privately.  This is very very negative.

 

Gerry,

Please let it slide.

 

Peace,

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 04:02:25 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Paul Mayer

 

Christ, Paul, you are one sick puppy.

 

E-mail me your address and I'll send you $100 so you can go see a shrink!

 

 

 

Jerry

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 04:28:55 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         ty <ursus@RIVER.GWI.NET>

Subject:      Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and Why?

In-Reply-To:  <v01510100afb672423059@[128.125.224.171]>

 

> But even if there were not opposing claims to the motherlode, Nicosia's

> comments are important and right.  For a major writer of the 20th century

> (something we here at the beat-l have known, but the mainstream is just

> beginning to pick up on) not to have his papers treated in the most

> aboveboard scholarly and academic manner (ie all of them kept together as

> much as possible at an institute where scholars and others interested can

> access them equally) is a crime against literature and against the readers

> of the world.

 

     to do so is a crime against the writer. if i had even the slightest

suspicion that notes, sketches, drafts, anything i'd written and not

willingly offered to the public as a whole would be rummaged through

after my death, i'd burn them before i kicked. we're living in a time

when, especially in the u.s., everything is talked about, reported on,

analyzed and exposed for everyone to look at under their cracked $2

microscopes. it's unfortunate really; the self-deceptive reason for this

trend seems to be a search for absolute truths, which is a waste of time

in itself. the purpose, of course, lying in the need to divert attention

away from oneself. everyone's fucked up, but no one wants anyone else to

think that they are, but we all kind of know it anyway. it's bogus. while

the scenario being discussed on the list isn't at the core of this trend,

it's definitely related. you see these people all the time; professors,

critics, etc. riding out their lives on the coattails of prominent

figures, artistic or otherwise. not all devotees to historic or modern

figures are like this; it's when the putrid scent of an over-developed

ego accompanies their pursuits that it becomes a turn-off.

     and, on a hypocritical note, regarding this whole argument... what

of the things other people have to say about/to you? so what if someone

slanders you? take it in stride and shrug it off like so many

mosquitoes. i, and others i'm sure, being a newcomer to the list am

turned-off by bogus bickering, but expected its presence before i signed

on. every newsgroup, every list, everyplace/thing everywhere is to some

degree tainted by it. you can't purge it. there'll always be someone that's

disgusted by you and/or your ideas and urinates all over you, someone who

becomes infatuated with you, your ideas, and drools all over you, and

people who are everywhere in between. sick of it? change yourself, just 2

or three degrees... you'll be amazed at how the world seems to pull a

full 180...

     anyway, that's my rant.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 11:29:19 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Olly Ruff <or205@HERMES.CAM.AC.UK>

Subject:      Re: no subject

In-Reply-To:  <970601014308_-1028282744@emout01.mail.aol.com>

 

On Sun, 1 Jun 1997, Dixon Edmiston wrote:

 

> test of scuttling claws from Altoona-test only

>

 

Now, you can shoot me down in flames if I'm on a wrong'n here, but I think

that's pretty damn beat.

 

                                :),

 

                                        Olly R.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 06:05:04 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and Why?

 

Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:

 

i think i've said this before.  so i probably shouldn't say it.  i'll

try to learn to do the one hand clap after this one.

 

it seems much more important to me (and i would guess to many

non-scholars) for as much of the non-published materials of Jack

Kerouac's to be published.

 

i don't know that the archive is a hindrance to this or not.  it just

seems the priority would be publication for the larger readership - not

limitation to scholars.

 

by the way, gerry nicosia's biography Memory Babe gets better with every

page.  there are some lines in there in between all the kerouac analysis

that speak to the human condition in brilliant ways.  off hand i recall

one concerning choices very early in the book that i thought was a spark

of real truth.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

(i recall i volunteered for the Devil role in this)

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 06:07:00 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and Why?

 

Paul Maher wrote:

>

> >Delusional as usual Mr. Nicosia..........I haven't posted anything to or

> about your sorry ass in a week....

 

this ain't close to the strike zone.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 11:25:54 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      McClure a poetry.

In-Reply-To:  <l03020901afb638305758@[141.224.144.84]>

 

                Dark Brown              by Michael McClure

 

        "Oh Ease  Oh Body-Strain  Oh Love  Oh Ease Me Not!

        Wound-Bore"

 

        be real, show organs, show, blood, OH let me

        be as a flower. Let ugliness arise without care

        grow side by side with beauty. Oh twist

        be real to me. Fly smoke! Meat-real, as nerves

                                TENDON

        Ion, FLAME, Muscle, not banners but bulks as

        we are all 'deer'

        and move as beasts. Stalking in our forest

        as these are speech-words

 

        Burn them pure as above they rise from attitude are

        stultified. Are shit. Burn

        what arises from habit. Let custom

        die. Smash patterns and forms let spirit

        free to blasting liberty. Smash the

                habit shit above!!!!!!!!!

 

        LET PURE BLACK WORDS MOVE FROM THOUGHT

                        BEHIND

 

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 06:29:56 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Jerry C.

 

Mailer-daemon@aol.com wrote:

>

> The mail you sent could not be delivered to:

> 550 bigsur4me@aol.com is not a known user

>

> The text you sent follows:

>

> >From race@midusa.net  Sun Jun  1 07:22:04 1997

> Return-Path: <race@midusa.net>

> Received: from services.midusa.net (ns.midusa.net [206.28.168.21])

>           by emin41.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0)

>           with ESMTP id HAA21834 for <Bigsur4me@aol.com>;

>           Sun, 1 Jun 1997 07:22:03 -0400 (EDT)

> Received: from services.midusa.net (node48.salina.midusa.net [206.28.169.48])

>         by services.midusa.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA12871

>         for <Bigsur4me@aol.com>; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 06:10:54 -0500 (CDT)

> Message-ID: <33915B05.501B@midusa.net>

> Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 06:20:37 -0500

> From: RACE --- <race@midusa.net>

> X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I)

> MIME-Version: 1.0

> To: Bigsur4me@aol.com

> Subject: Re: Calling Dirk Vulgate

> References: <970601034245_149919081@emout19.mail.aol.com>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>

> Jerry Cimino wrote:

> >

> > Dirk,

> >

> > I do not believe you are a real person.  Please e-mail me privately with

 your

> > phone number so I can call you and we can talk like gentlemen - no shouting,

> > I promise!

> >

> > Jerry Cimino

>

> what is it now people have to authenticate their personality through you

> before contributing to discussions.  that doesn't make much sense to

> me.  i could understand if the listoperator found a reason that the

> information might need to be provided - but it doesn't seem to be any of

> your business.

>

> david rhaesa

> 500 e. crawford st. #23

> salina, Kanas

> 67401

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 06:45:53 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Burroughs collection

 

MORE OXY THAN MORON wrote:

>

> In case anyone is interested (for future reference), the special collections

> dept at Ohio State now has the biggest collection of Burroughs material in the

> US. James Grauerholtz, secretary to WSB is in town, dropping off a truckload

 of

> boxes (Maya, very little to do with anthropology). We had dinner last night

> along with John Giorno, David Ohle and John Geiger who is working on a

> biography of Brion Gysin. WSB is doing fine at the moment, John Giorno is

> slated to be in Louiseville this September (did you get him to come Ron?) and

> is a great performer if you have never seen him. Finally, the Burroughs

> collection should be available for use as soon as it is cataloged and sorted

> which might take 2 or three more months (at least).

>

> Dave B.

 

Will somebody please list when the Collection becomes available.  Also

what will the access rules be etc. etc. etc.  I imagine that isn't all

ironed out yet.  But when it is, I would be interested and i imagine

that some others here would be as well.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 15:10:07 BST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tom Harberd <T.E.Harberd@UEA.AC.UK>

Subject:      The Continuing Death of Beat-L

 

Once upon a time (and a very nice time it was as well),

there was a place called "Beat-L", a magical place where all

sorts of people chatted in a friendly manner about anything

that came into their heads, and generally sha-boped.  But

then came a lot of nasty children (or they might have

already been there, hidden) who started screaming at each

other.

"You're an arsehole."

"No, you're an arsehole."

"I said it first."

"Fuck you."

And so on.

Soon, the wiser members of Beat-L packed their backs and

headed off onto the highway, leaving these little kids to

bicker amongst themselves.  Kids because they didn't have

the sense to realise the complete futility of their juvenile

slanging matches.

Now hey, I don't know the details.  Why?  Becuase for the

past couple of months I've been systematically deleting

anything coming into my mailbox even remotely to do with

this Kerouac archives thing.  I'm not saying that it's not

important.  But the way in which you are going about

"discussing" it is really pissing me off.  If you have to

slag each other off, take it private.  'Cos I don't think

most people out here wanna here it.  We wanna hear cool

stuff, beat stuff, literary stuff, life stuff, not this

poisionus psedo-libelous rhetorical shit which you insist on

posting.

Get your act together.

I'll be leaving the list soon, partly because it's annoying

me, and partly because I'm going home for a holiday, but I

doubt I'll be back.  It's been a cool year mostly.  But I

don't appreciate being caught in the middle of a pointless

word war that has nothing to do with me.  I'm actually

astonished that so-called-"Adults" can act this way.

 

Tom.

http://ww.uea.ac.uk/~w9624759

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 10:14:53 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Czarnecki <peent@SERVTECH.COM>

Subject:      Re: Bill gargon help

 

>Bill, I like a good argument but this isn't good where people get to say

>crap, disquise the own words as gn's.

>p ( of course list father is not a position i really want any one in but

>as list mother i would like more intellectual meat and less beatting the

>meat.

 

I've pretty much stayed away from commenting on the estate hullabaloo but I

have to say I agree with you. The post by PM that added on words to GN's

without any clarification were very misleading and bothered me very much.

If I had just recently signed on and read that without knowing much of the

background and personalities I could easily have taken them to be GN's own

words. I hate rules and limits, feel people should be trusted to follow

their own nature and that should be ok, but boy, this sure seems to be

pushing bounds of civility or something. Guess it says a lot about the

person posting.

 

Michael

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 11:32:58 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Paul Maher <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: Paul Mayer

 

At 04:02 AM 6/1/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Christ, Paul, you are one sick puppy.

>

>E-mail me your address and I'll send you $100 so you can go see a shrink!

>

>

>

>Jerry

>If being a "sick puppy" means not being subjugated to Gerry Nicosia's

thought process I will take the hundred dollars!!!!!!!!!!!!!

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 08:21:37 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Bill gargon help

 

R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

>

> Patricia Elliott wrote:

>

> > Bill, I like a good argument but this isn't good where people get to

> > say

> > crap, disquise the own words as gn's.

> > p ( of course list father is not a position i really want any one in

> > but

> > as list mother i would like more intellectual meat and less beatting

> > the

> > meat.

>

>  Patricia:

>

> Thank you and LOL.

>

> Bill,

>

> Please remind those who continue the personal attacks that this is not

> approriate.

>

> Thanks.

>

> --

> Bentz

> bocelts@scsn.net

>

> http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

 

 

I think it is to Bill Gargan's credit that he has not stepped in to

protect either side in this debate, only asked for civility, which both

sides have had trouble with.

 

There have been some wonderful pleas to Mr. Nicosia the last few days to

hold his fire or pick his punches.  Mssrs Chaput, Maher, and Vulgate

should also take these admonissions to heart.  Todays postings from this

side have been primarily abusive, simple-minded and non productive.

 

This thing has run it's course.  When the courts have ruled there may be

new material for discussion, but we aren't learning anything new from

either side at the moment.  Everbody in this thing is losing respect and

credibility.  Maybe both sides--Nicosia, Grant, Cimino etc, Maher,

Chaput, the mysterious Dr. Vulgate and others could just cool their

jets. (I don't mention Mr. Anastee because he has been silent for some

time and is clearly not Mr or Mrs. Vulgate) This list has no legal power

to change anything.  If another biography of JK appears we can all make

our own evaluation of how it compares with Mr. Nicosia's.

 

Maybe we can get this thing to die out without litigation or calling for

Bill Gargan to excommunicate anyone.

 

J Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 10:20:56 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Paul Mayer

 

Paul Maher wrote:

>

> At 04:02 AM 6/1/97 -0400, you wrote:

> >Christ, Paul, you are one sick puppy.

> >

> >E-mail me your address and I'll send you $100 so you can go see a shrink!

> >

> >

> >

> >Jerry

> >If being a "sick puppy" means not being subjugated to Gerry Nicosia's

> thought process I will take the hundred dollars!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

It seems fairly easy to avoid this subjugation.  It is a complex

philosophy called "No Bait!".  Nicosia's rhetorical process to this

point has been 90% or more counter-punching.  If you don't punch, he may

fall silent.  Or he may as many hope contribute to the unending

conversation of beatifitudinalistic insight on non-estate matters.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 11:38:23 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>

Subject:      WRB on WWW

 

Dear Beat-L members:

 

Our new Water Row Books website is located at:

 

http://www.waterrowbooks.com

 

See you there -

Jeffrey

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 11:51:04 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Jerry C.

 

You miss the point, Race, about this Dirk Vulgate "person".

 

Dirk Vulgate is a figment of someone's imagination.  He won't reveal who he

is because he's a phantom created recently to bolster Nicosia's detractors to

make it appear there are more people out there who think he's a megalomaniac.

 

Would it be legitimate, Race, for me to go and create additional screen names

and start posting my ideas under different ID's?  And maybe after that I

could go to my wife's computer where she has 3 different ISP's and post a few

more!

 

As I recall Dirk Vulgate said he was only going to post "one time" and of

course he came back.  The same way Paul Maher said he was going to

unsubscribe but never did.  Kinda makes you wonder!

 

REMEMBER:  The issue is the Archives.  Look at how Paul has gotten everyone

off topic again, the same way Chaput did with his venomous antics two days

ago!

 

 

Jerry C.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 11:51:07 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: Bill gargon help

In-Reply-To:  Message of Sun, 1 Jun 1997 00:42:15 -0500 from

              <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

 

So would I, Patricia.  I'm doing my best to cool this whole thing down and I wi

ll enforce the guidelines I put forth last week.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 10:58:28 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Jerry C.

 

Jerry Cimino wrote:

>

> You miss the point, Race, about this Dirk Vulgate "person".

>

> Dirk Vulgate is a figment of someone's imagination.  He won't reveal who he

> is because he's a phantom created recently to bolster Nicosia's detractors to

> make it appear there are more people out there who think he's a megalomaniac.

>

> Would it be legitimate, Race, for me to go and create additional screen names

> and start posting my ideas under different ID's?  And maybe after that I

> could go to my wife's computer where she has 3 different ISP's and post a few

> more!

 

i don't see why that would matter.  the number of voices saying stupid

things doesn't make them less stupid.

>

> As I recall Dirk Vulgate said he was only going to post "one time" and of

> course he came back.  The same way Paul Maher said he was going to

> unsubscribe but never did.  Kinda makes you wonder!

 

doesn't make me wonder.  they obviously changed their minds.  i've told

myself i would stop posting or even reading this stuff, but i've often

changed my mind.  it's my option and theirs i suppose.

 

i think you missed my point that the person's identity is NONE OF YOUR

BUSINESS!!!!!!!

 

>

> REMEMBER:  The issue is the Archives.  Look at how Paul has gotten everyone

> off topic again, the same way Chaput did with his venomous antics two days

> ago!

>

Yeah Yeah Yeah.  The continuing chorus of "The ISSUE if the ARCHIVES."

The more you say that the more i'm convinced that there are other

issues.  obviously issues of personal property rights (which I've been

told don't matter).  also the issue of publishing previously unpublished

materials.  And the Archives are not even an ISSUE with regards to

anyone here until such day as a Court releases the control of the

literary estate from Sampas (a man i doubt i'll ever meet) to Mr.

Nicosia (another man i doubt i'll ever meet).  until that point it seems

we're all just pissing in the wind.

 

i'm going to watch a Bronson movie instead.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

> Jerry C.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:24:00 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Paul Maher <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: Jerry C.

 

At 11:51 AM 6/1/97 -0400, you wrote:

>You miss the point, Race, about this Dirk Vulgate "person".

>

>Dirk Vulgate is a figment of someone's imagination.  He won't reveal who he

>is because he's a phantom created recently to bolster Nicosia's detractors to

>make it appear there are more people out there who think he's a megalomaniac.

>

>Would it be legitimate, Race, for me to go and create additional screen names

>and start posting my ideas under different ID's?  And maybe after that I

>could go to my wife's computer where she has 3 different ISP's and post a few

>more!

>

>As I recall Dirk Vulgate said he was only going to post "one time" and of

>course he came back.  The same way Paul Maher said he was going to

>unsubscribe but never did.  Kinda makes you wonder!

>

>REMEMBER:  The issue is the Archives.  Look at how Paul has gotten everyone

>off topic again, the same way Chaput did with his venomous antics two days

>ago!

>

>

>Jerry C.

>No you do not understand...the archives are not my worry. I know they are

in good, competent hands. Paul....

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:27:38 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Paul Maher <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      a different thread

 

No more will I mention a thing...

 

How do people feel about Part 3 of Visions of Cody? "Frisco: The Tape":

Does it add or detract from the book? I feel that Kerouac's writing in the

first two parts, the realization of his spontaneous prose method, is pure,

driven genius. The addition of tape transcripts however changes the focus of

the vision of Cody.....but I don't know if it gives him any new

dimension...Any takes on this?

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 18:15:53 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      a question:jack kerouac bio written by Gerald Nicosia

 

points

first: there's an italian language translation of the

        book written by Gerald Nicosia 'bout the JK life

        & works? anyone can tell something?

second:in angst for the hot shift of the posts from word

        to word, but i'm a real beet (sic!) & i do not understand

        why people leaves the B-List.

        Yessir,

        Jack Kerouac

        "Let's go.

        Where are we going, man?

        I don't know, but we gotta go".

---

yrs

Rinaldo.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:23:21 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Civil Discourse

 

It appears that the recent guidelines on civil discourse have been

ignored by a number of listmembers.  I have begun blocking people who

violate those guidelines from posting to the list.   I will continue to

do so, usually after a warning.There have been several messages from

listmembers complaining about the volume of mail on the list as of late.

I am looking into possible changes in the listserv profile which will

both reduce the volume of mail and encourage those whose replies are

primarily intended for for the sender to communicatedirectly.  Thank you

all for your patience.  I hope we can discuss the lives and works of the

Beat Generation in an atmosphere or mutual respect and civility.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 13:37:34 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "William H. Rose, III" <schpill@EXECPC.COM>

Subject:      Re: a different thread

 

Paul Maher wrote:

>

> No more will I mention a thing...

>

> How do people feel about Part 3 of Visions of Cody? "Frisco: The Tape":

> Does it add or detract from the book? I feel that Kerouac's writing in the

> first two parts, the realization of his spontaneous prose method, is pure,

> driven genius. The addition of tape transcripts however changes the focus of

> the vision of Cody.....but I don't know if it gives him any new

> dimension...Any takes on this?

 

Paul,

        When I first read "Visions of Cody" the tape transcription

portion had me a bit confused but after a second sitting I came to the

realization that what we had here was the rare opportunity to

eavesdrop on the actual day to day communications between Neal and Jack.

Granted, they were usually "under the effect" of some substance or

another but listening to the conversations they had, well, sort of a

"BEAT" to it, don't you think?

        Bill.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:50:31 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Re: no subject

 

Olly Ruff wrote:

 

> On Sun, 1 Jun 1997, Dixon Edmiston wrote:

>

> > test of scuttling claws from Altoona-test only

> >

>

> Now, you can shoot me down in flames if I'm on a wrong'n here, but I

> think

> that's pretty damn beat.

>

>                                 :),

>

>                                         Olly R.

 

     I should have been a pair of ragged claws

Scuttling across the floors of silent seas.

 

TS Eliot

Love Song of JAP

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:58:10 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Re: Jerry C.

 

RACE --- wrote:

 

> Mailer-daemon@aol.com wrote:

> >

> > The mail you sent could not be delivered to:

> > 550 bigsur4me@aol.com is not a known user

> >

> > The text you sent follows:

> >

> > >From race@midusa.net  Sun Jun  1 07:22:04 1997

> > Return-Path: <race@midusa.net>

> > Received: from services.midusa.net (ns.midusa.net [206.28.168.21])

> >           by emin41.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0)

> >           with ESMTP id HAA21834 for <Bigsur4me@aol.com>;

> >           Sun, 1 Jun 1997 07:22:03 -0400 (EDT)

> > Received: from services.midusa.net (node48.salina.midusa.net

> [206.28.169.48])

> >         by services.midusa.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA12871

> >         for <Bigsur4me@aol.com>; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 06:10:54 -0500

> (CDT)

> > Message-ID: <33915B05.501B@midusa.net>

> > Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 06:20:37 -0500

> > From: RACE --- <race@midusa.net>

> > X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I)

> > MIME-Version: 1.0

> > To: Bigsur4me@aol.com

> > Subject: Re: Calling Dirk Vulgate

> > References: <970601034245_149919081@emout19.mail.aol.com>

> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> >

> > Jerry Cimino wrote:

> > >

> > > Dirk,

> > >

> > > I do not believe you are a real person.  Please e-mail me

> privately with

>  your

> > > phone number so I can call you and we can talk like gentlemen - no

> shouting,

> > > I promise!

> > >

> > > Jerry Cimino

> >

> > what is it now people have to authenticate their personality through

> you

> > before contributing to discussions.  that doesn't make much sense to

>

> > me.  i could understand if the listoperator found a reason that the

> > information might need to be provided - but it doesn't seem to be

> any of

> > your business.

> >

> > david rhaesa

> > 500 e. crawford st. #23

> > salina, Kanas

> > 67401

 

 David:

 

David:

 

I am just guessing, but there are some members on aol who have been

agressive in their attacks on Gerry.  I am guessing that Jerry C. thinks

that someone on aol to attack Gerry, possibly outside the rules of the

list and without their identity being known.  At least that is what I

suspected anyway.  So I read Jerry's post to say, stop attacking from

behind fake screen names.  Could be wrong though.  Only Jerry can say

for sure.

 

Peace,

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:08:15 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Malcolm Lawrence <Malcolm@WOLFENET.COM>

Subject:      Every who?

 

>Every whore has her reasons

 

This is odd. I've always heard this expression as "everyone has their reasons,"

 which is a lot more terrifying/interesting to my ears.

 

Malcs

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:20:21 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Malcolm Lawrence <Malcolm@WOLFENET.COM>

Subject:      HOW many subscribers?

 

>As of this moment (9:36am EDT, May 30) there are 248 subscribers to

>beat-l.

>

>fred

 

There were this many back when Ginsberg died, but according to my most

current "receipt":

 

Your message dated Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:08:15 -0700 with subject "Every who?"

has been successfully distributed to the BEAT-L list (178 recipients).

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 15:11:21 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Re: Bill gargon help

Comments: To: stauffer@pacbell.net

 

James Stauffer wrote:

 

> I think it is to Bill Gargan's credit that he has not stepped in to

> protect either side in this debate, only asked for civility, which

> both

> sides have had trouble with.

>

> There have been some wonderful pleas to Mr. Nicosia the last few days

> to

> hold his fire or pick his punches.  Mssrs Chaput, Maher, and Vulgate

> should also take these admonissions to heart.  Todays postings from

> this

> side have been primarily abusive, simple-minded and non productive.

>

> This thing has run it's course.  When the courts have ruled there may

> be

> new material for discussion, but we aren't learning anything new from

> either side at the moment.  Everbody in this thing is losing respect

> and

> credibility.  Maybe both sides--Nicosia, Grant, Cimino etc, Maher,

> Chaput, the mysterious Dr. Vulgate and others could just cool their

> jets. (I don't mention Mr. Anastee because he has been silent for some

>

> time and is clearly not Mr or Mrs. Vulgate) This list has no legal

> power

> to change anything.  If another biography of JK appears we can all

> make

> our own evaluation of how it compares with Mr. Nicosia's.

>

> Maybe we can get this thing to die out without litigation or calling

> for

> Bill Gargan to excommunicate anyone.

>

> J Stauffer

 

Here here, I second the remarks by the Honorable J Stauffer.

 

Peace,

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:18:59 -0600

Reply-To:     stand666@bitstream.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         R&R Houff <stand666@BITSTREAM.NET>

Subject:      Minneapolis and the Beats

 

Hello Antoine,

 

Yes, I still play a lot of slide but am able to fret. I am primarily,

a finger-stylist and improv in Open tunings. It's a painful process

of much bone cracking and hand soaks with massage/pressure point

relief on a daily basis. When I was a kid, I was eaves- dropping on a

conversation between Lightning Hopkins and another fellow and he said,

"If you don't feel pain, you must be dead." I don't think that I've

met John Hasbrouck unless on a chance through Luther Allison. I used

to fish  with Luther when he was on the Delmark label. Once in awhile

he would show-up with other folks from Chi who liked to fish bluegills

and cats. I never layed the harp down and I love amping it=97try to catch

that Little Walter sound=97still trying!

 

Richard Houff

Pariah Press

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 15:38:35 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Dixon Edmiston <DIXCIN@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Dr. Destouches

 

I'm new so I don't know if this has been hashed over before (pun intended),

but where does Celine fit in with the beats? Did he not influence JK and AG

and WSB to some extent? Just curious.

 

 Celine describing writers and journalists who boast of having abolished war:

    "They've never fucked, bucked, hustled, muscled a damn thing! those

be-peacocked parakeets, not the least butt or babe, the least complicament,

never unfinagled, discombobbled the weakest mitigated litigation! Not a

thing! Never! short-sighted sleazes! Pencil-necked shitslingers!

      The fuming, destructing Furies of War scoff at your woggish emotings to

the ends of hell! your silent, anathematic farting.

      You cowardly, shit-scared gropers! I'm enfulminating I admit! I'm

moiling! I'm boiling! I'm humbugging my wig! I'm fuguing! I'm shrieking! I'm

breathless! I'm belching roiling vapors! I don't give a fitting fuck

anymore."

 

Whew! Well maybe not in contents but how about the style? Any comments?

 

Thanks!

Dix

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 15:49:55 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Bill

 

Bill:

 

I am trying to back channel you.  Please send me your email address.  It

keeps bouncing right now.

 

Thanks.

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 13:47:00 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         runner911 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>

Subject:      Re: HOW many subscribers?

In-Reply-To:  <01BC6E86.314AF400@sea-ts1-p70.wolfenet.com>

 

At 12:20 PM -0700 6/1/97, Malcolm Lawrence wrote:

 

> >As of this moment (9:36am EDT, May 30) there are 248 subscribers to

> >beat-l.

 

> Your message dated Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:08:15 -0700 with subject "Every who?"

> has been successfully distributed to the BEAT-L list (178 recipients).

 

Well, I guess the 50 or so messages I received saying this list was shit

(or arguing about shit) did its job!  Keep up the good work!

 

Douglas <who appreciates the content and thought this list seems to embody>

 

'oh are you listening to me?

lilac wine, gently floating...

will they miss me? lilac wine...

oh, this is so infuriating

lilac wine..., I'm so heavy

lilac wine..., mississippi'

 

      -----(mourning jeff buckley

             http://www.electriciti.com/babu/

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 17:08:45 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Dawn B. Sova" <DawnDR@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Review

 

Review-L

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Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 18:41:43 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: a different thread

In-Reply-To:  <1.5.4.32.19970601162738.006dacec@pop.pipeline.com>

 

>No more will I mention a thing...

>

>How do people feel about Part 3 of Visions of Cody? "Frisco: The Tape":

>Does it add or detract from the book? I feel that Kerouac's writing in the

>first two parts, the realization of his spontaneous prose method, is pure,

>driven genius. The addition of tape transcripts however changes the focus of

>the vision of Cody.....but I don't know if it gives him any new

>dimension...Any takes on this?

@@@@@@

i rather like them, for many reasons, but mostly for enhancing the

meta-reality of the experience, i equally enjoy the film takes (?arg, cant

find my copy of book: jane rashanks' or something  ), endlessly redoing

that little bit of celluoid. in fact adds dimension as Jk using some of the

form of literal recordings of actual events lends backdrop to the zanier

and more IT forms of experience, that often it was a coupla guys with a

coupla bottles, dope, bennies, what all, slugging it out for succession of

nights. i sure know i'be been in such situations my self, and then pulled

back a bit to see the inside/outside out, figure/ground etc

off i go..

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Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 18:35:42 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      www link page

 

Well, I have finally begun to work on my web link page.  I have added a

page from Stanford on Fair Use and Copyright if anyone is interested.

I also have added some book store sites.  If you have a "beat" site, or

a book store site, email me back channel and I will try to work your

site in.

 

Thanks,

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

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Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 18:43:41 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: a question:jack kerouac bio written by Gerald Nicosia

In-Reply-To:  <3.0.1.32.19970601181553.00c10124@pop.gpnet.it>

 

>second:in angst for the hot shift of the posts from word

>        to word, but i'm a real beet (sic!) & i do not understand

>        why people leaves the B-List.

>      *****

rinaldo your sweet words are so often a balm to sorely tried temper.

glad you are staying.

mc.

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Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 18:42:52 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: HOW many subscribers?

 

Before making any judgements I'd suggest we wait and see an "official"

response as to how many subscribers are on the list today.  For whatever

reason it appears the LISTSERVE receipt does not reflect the true number of

people subscribed.

 

A week ago I mentioned how the listserve receipt reflected 186 people.  The

next day Fred Bogin said in reality it was 248 as of that moment in time.

 Using that as a benchmark I'd guess we're right around 240 today.  I do not

believe 50 people have unsubbed in the last week and a half.

 

Jerry Cimino

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Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 19:05:12 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Paul Maher <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Visions of Cody book discussion

 

>i rather like them, for many reasons, but mostly for enhancing the

>meta-reality of the experience, i equally enjoy the film takes (?arg, cant

>find my copy of book: jane rashanks' or something  ), endlessly redoing

>that little bit of celluoid. in fact adds dimension as Jk using some of the

>form of literal recordings of actual events lends backdrop to the zanier

>and more IT forms of experience, that often it was a coupla guys with a

>coupla bottles, dope, bennies, what all, slugging it out for succession of

>nights. i sure know i'be been in such situations my self, and then pulled

>back a bit to see the inside/outside out, figure/ground etc

>off i go..

>

Yes...very perceptive. I think the variety of mind sensations is reflected

throughout. From what I heard...the tapes are verbatim transcription but

seem to be lost somewhere as a real, primary source to see just how Jack was

working this into the novel.

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Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 18:52:32 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Carl A Biancucci <carl@WORLD.STD.COM>

Subject:      Gordon Legg

In-Reply-To:  <970601115103_-663501142@emout01.mail.aol.com> from "Jerry

              Cimino" at Jun 1, 97 11:51:04 am

 

WARNING:No estate battle text or insults enclosed.

 

 

Jeffrey mentioned a UK writer named Gordon Legg to me about a month

ago.

Do any of you good folks know of him/his work?

(is he still with us?)

 

Also,what is the Merlin Circle?

 

Looking forward to hearing from you

AND for the return of list civilty.

(thanks,Bill G.for stepping in)

 

 

- Carl -

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Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 19:07:52 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      new poem

 

Here is a new poem that I am starting right now at 6:50 pm edt.

 

Park

 

Sun, shade, bandstand, waterfall, and pond,

I should be at work,

But, I am not.

I walk past worshippers of RA,

Past frisbee flingers and receivers,

Past the same woman on roller blades,

And around the large gold fish pond.

 

The Government employees lounge

In all the best shade spots.

Exploration leads round and round

Till suddenly, a sacred grove

Beneath lotus trees  I sit.

A young woman reads Joyce neath the falling water.

I sit and the quietness

Moves out from my soul in ripples.

 

The journey continues on.

A large woman exercises,

Stretching large flesh.

A young woman tumbles for her children

Perfectly aligned cart wheels, some one handed,

Round offs, beautiful symetry.

 

I return past school children and teachers,

And pecking orders,

And who you are by who likes you,

Past the woman on roller blades again,

And then, I see them.

Perfect, and out of darkness,

Golden neath the dark murky water,

Graceful as the delight at this sight,

Overwhelms my adult.

My child comes out to watch these

Golden treasures, swimming round the pond.

 

Ahhh, blisssss is child like,

beatific in its return to innocence.

Bliss is here among the lounging park employees.

Bliss is in the attractive woman reading at the falls.

Bliss is in the fat women stretching at the rails.

Bliss is in the gymnast tumbling cross the fields.

Bliss is in the young women sunning on the grass.

Bliss is in the young men chasing frisbee trying to catch their eyes.

Bliss is in the loving couple lying in the shade.

Bliss is in the school children running cross the grounds.

Bliss is in the woman roller blading round and round and round.

Bliss is in the goldfish cruising in and out of light.

Bliss is in my heart where I hold this wonderous sight.

 

Finished at 7:15 edt.

First draft out of head and into beat l.

 

Bentz Kirby

June 1, 1997

Columbia, SC

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

 



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