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Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 10:00:21 -0500
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Detective Shit at old 4321
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Once
upon a time a young man suffering from many frailties and
eccentricities
a general paralysis of the insane lived in a rented home
on an
avenue named 7 with an address of 4321.
The young man chose the
apartment
for the simple reason that no matter how absent minded he
became
he could certainly recall his address.
After
sometime living here he invited an electrician named Mo and in
some
circles 4X to live with him. The young
man found that while white
culture
considered him to be over the edge, the african culture was very
compassionate
in many many ways. Until concerns of
betrayals real or
imagined
broke this new connection in the human family.
Most of
the events at old 4321 fall into the category of "If I tell you
I gotta
kill you" but one tale of the young man seemed worth telling.
Through
a series of events that are beyond explanation in this world,
the
young man's car had fallen into the hands of a crippled boy in the
hood. The crippled boy was not necessarily nice
but it seems some sort
of
karmic balance for the crippled boy to have wheels given that his
enemies
mostly had two good legs. The car
engine was driven until death
hit its
grips.
One day
Detective Shit (not his real name!) knocks on the door at 4321.
The
young man answers the door. One
roommate sees THE MAN and
immediately
tells Mo and then escorts a large band of ruffians out of
various
nooks and crannies in the house and out a secret backdoor.
The
detective enters and the young man offers him a seat on the
salvation
army couch. Mo comes in and watches
television and listens
playing
referee. He knows that the young man is
terrified of the
authorities
despite the fact that he had not yet been arrested (though
he soon
would be for reading "The Art of Worldly Wisdom" allowed in
Lincoln
Park). So he was there for protection
psychically mostly.
Detective
Shit began to ask questions and the young man gave answers -
simple
answers to simple questions. The art of
evasion in
cross-examination
being something he'd taught at the level of a zen
master
for years. Every so often a laugh would
appear in Mo's eyes at
how the
young man was playing old detective shit.
But he didn't
intercede.
Detective
Shit is obviously getting somewhat frustrated because he is
being
stonewalled although gently and kindly.
He asks the young man if
he knew
that the thief was a member of the Gangsta Disciples? The young
man
smiled and said "no, is that some sort of local boys' club." At
this
point Mo interceded on behalf of both saying something to the
effect
that we knew OF the Gangster Disciples and that this obviously
wasn't
going anywhere as the young man obviously didn't seem interested
in
pressing charges against a member of the Gangster Disciples.
Detective
Shit stood protesting a bit and assured whoever was listening
that
this didn't mean the police wouldn't be going after the hoodlum.
Do what
you gotta do.
The
young man just sat like stone for awhile in the chair. Was he Ok,
did he
need anything? I'm fine.
The
young man went into his office that an illiterate old Joliet version
of Bad
Bad Leroy Brown had helped him create to have intellectual and
literary
space. He turned on the computer and
wrote a letter to the
editor
of the local newspaper defending the local gangs against the
malicious
attacks from the paper and the community.
The letter was
mailed. It was never printed.
Sometime
later the young man retreated from 4321 and eventually found
another
interesting number "23" to live in.
He still has many many fond
memories
of the friendships from the Hood.
what is
true and false in the memory of events as mundane as these one
never
knows for certain.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 13:03:19 -0400
Reply-To: SLPrdise@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MiKe KaNe <SLPrdise@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Illusions & Confessions
James M
said
<<I
think Kerouac usually used
an
array of substances to approach the "joy" end of the spectrum. The
"despair"
side is quite easy to come across. Sure
you have to know light
before
you can know darkness or vice versa but only nothing's pure>>
I
disagree with the despair side being quite easy to come across. The fact of
the
matter is that in my opinion Kerouac's drinking or use of "an array of
substances"
ultimately led him to his despair.
Consider Big Sur.. the last
book in
the Duluoz Legend.. Kerouac's fears, paranoia, and despair are all
derived
from his delirium brought on by excessive drinking. Kerouac belives
that he
is losing his human-beingness which brings you back to the illusion
idea:
Perhaps he was in some way losing the thing that made him "real".
Perhaps
it was all in his head. My opinion is that at that time and later in
his
life he was more aware of the illusions but not prepared to separate them
into
their own discreet packets. No more prepared than any of us to rip down
the
walls that shiled us from the brutal winds of reality.
MK
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 12:10:35 -0000
Reply-To: jgh3ring <jgh3ring@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: jgh3ring <jgh3ring@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: exit wound...did it hurt?
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exit
wound
im sick
of living inside opinions of orange ostriches overzealous =
zadie
zebras kappacinno kangaroos drowning in fresh floridian =
concentrated
witches brew froth and leopard-skinned lingerie =
lobbyists
careing my briefcase automobilebiography professing the you =
should
be daid map
ive
smoked enough meaning existence purpose dogma house karma yeah =
its
gonna get you meant to be frolicking glass river fate coincidence =
oddity
of life mysticism metaphysicalexams sqeeze my godlikeballs and =
getty
lee up doc get me off and ho hum pass di tums chumly truth =
power
crusade journey death life death is part of that survival of =
the
one-size-fits-all sluggish struggle oh oh mister moonglow then =
ill
hear that always right opinion from everyone everywhere everyway =
everyhow
anyhow...on a bloodsoaked highway comforting crackedchild
im
tired of walking streets of hudson late night carson victoria fuck =
me
michigan avenue blvd streets of coffee brim and proper and not =
having
my cock go floppy flop ping pong pinball wizard gnip gnop =
jason
helfman nosaj namfleh paddle ball in dancing mambo waltz =
bunnyhop
chicago winds or seeing the hot knockers of blonde bitches =
balk at
wrigley field or being sweatily slapped silly puttily by =
passing
rollerboiling hot bloody cunts but under silk millennium moon =
ill run
a naked century on ann arbor bebop hiphop hilly holiday =
pavement
with hundreds of shriveled salamis wildly blowup breasts and =
drip
drip drip my pants lift shirt exposing huge penis for a free =
slice
of pizza anyday of the week...
im
still looking for the alter-inner-outtie belly button societal =
restaurant
deli unique body shop even settledown white picket fences =
for tea
house lounge lizard cafe where you shotgun crackpipe wit some =
loopy
lollipop fuck suck her nipple ring do a barmitzvah line dance =
naked
body howling ha va nagelah ha va nagelah ha va negelah de bra =
sa cha
explosion of darwiniah-freudian-kerouacrazy sandpaper floor =
fornication
stand bleeding half caf double latte iced mocha spritzers =
from
your back into doubled up to-go cups hitting the locust bejing =
pipe of
green wisdom shoot the expresso through cock vein straight to =
the
heart left for dead in heirloom rocking chair wit a half-read =
newsweek
of dead innocent israelis on cover
im
trapped in my cable-ready cockroach cumming modem =
plugged-into-one-of-many-universes
home computer cybersex lovers =
kissing
sticky keys shifting my nuts to sound of cdrom stereo playing =
with my
mind and the beat the beat beat is nice rewinding my vcr =
filmmatic
memories to a room of windowshade perspective of chicago =
letting
them rise opening my heart to the hand of world sunlight dark =
deceptive
horseradish honesty that pulls my windowshade eyes back to =
my
applecore laptop that burns my catskill-eyed retina with =
electomag-cyber-hyber-hyper-gyro-and
why not cyro-genetic energenical =
thoughts
of escaping technology knowingly while mouth mind existence =
is
deadbolted to this hobo hale-hop the trainslut track trying for =
just
one free breath outside technological entrapment...or hell ill =
even
pay for the motherfucker
is it
too much to ask for humanity to be a ah yes delivery please =
Nosaj
Namfleh 2970 north sheridan apartment fifteen-eleven chicago =
illinois
a large pizza with your toppings are black white yellow =
green
red American Russian Israeli Turkish Swedish Sweet-Rolled =
Danish
Italian German English Indian and not claim quarter this =
quarter
that half this three-quarters of whatever half this and half =
and
half coffee and half something else its always something else =
have
you decided sir oh yes just make it a plain pizza yep just the =
dough i
perfer the pizza to be
there
is a desperately seeking suicidal romanticism to rolling down =
these i
guess free american plain m&m candied train tracks searching =
for
perfect worlds to roll in with breaking tide spilling out a =
steamy
milkydud poem on all and aloneness not knowing if this will =
ever be
read or read when im dead or read while recieving head or =
giving
it in velvetta bed i think as the traincab rocks electricity =
spilled
into the fiddler on the roof as he peers through our open =
window
lives seeing all and nothing...wonder if he cum see that red =
velvet
glow of postraisinbran-masterbation on this noface
i pause
higher existence yearn to network we gods share all the pain =
pleasure
discontent happiness loathing utter boredom miserable =
horribly
horrid hayday hurrahs of morning hardon fucks smoking dawn =
dope
dreaming of the ultra-ultimate beating rape medium-rare eyes =
stabbed
by hot iron forks in clit-pierced caged lion rage whip whip =
whip my
not so bony ass heather says over coffee expresso wisdom =
thoughts
switch on a univeral gumball chewing chainsaw catastrophe =
zipping
through my chedder cheese-great!!!ed flesh kicked in the =
gratefully
gone groin screaming fourth-dimension pastrami on marble =
rye on
burial plots of unburied dead dinosaurs
ginsberg
is dead cloud...
meditating above columbia chicago
coffee bean college gaily giggling =
at its
farting artists hey hey hey there hyena much-impaired hipsters =
pretentious
poets beat me senseless bohemian babboons sucking thumb =
sculptors
closed captioned costume designers lost in obladi-obladuh =
land
lighting directors playwright putt-putt putzzzes paddling =
plutonium
rivers precumming of an unknown audience lying on duct tape =
directors
and ick ick actors all dead in de cellar
i want
to fuck complaints generalpattonilizations discrimmination =
racists
why white supremacists nazi new york new york marching =
neophite
nimrods drop atom hydrogen mushroom eggwhite no butter =
omelette
bombs throw flaming matchboxes on spilled gasoline stations =
create
war kill love embrace death blackmarket boaconstrictor =
turtlenecks
suffocating society in well deserted youth
i need
a roundhouse arthurian mace test crash dummy into a blood =
poisioned
skull&crossbones mindframed stereotypes known to =
unhumankind
...so let the disco commence of jewish goblins dancing in =
pools
of copper chicken broth the negro chuchbells ring ring my =
dingaling
ridiculous oppression within musical bus seats the lawyers =
preaching
at beaches lying dancing demons in three-ring created =
courtrooms
the read my kitty kat cuntlip politicians are only polite =
to
underaged voting infants and fill our holes with a greenblack =
currency
with a bulk food social security screwing cock and for =
univeral
sakes i could go on and on and on and on and on and on and =
on and
on and on and on but i got stuff to do and a chocolate =
milkshake
to inhale
i lone
amoeba shoot through all dimensions after seinfeld on =
thursdays
fishpondering comets i could ride constellations i could =
skim
stars across glass-topped universe i could board spacepods and =
be
probed on ufos and die trying to find other people so i guess ill =
just
kick back on the big lazyboy big chair constellation knowing it =
is
useless to believe that amid vastlochness of space properties =
physics
gravitational pull my chaingang driveby laws of momentum and =
and and
pendulous explained by unexplained metaphysical madness that =
the
space i occupy is anything but space...and in comparison to =
everything
i am nothing
save
yer breath and dont beep me six feet under letting me reach full =
flattire
freedom without your opinion...ders a whore in my sock
=A9Unpublished
work. Jason Helfman, 1997.
Jason
"donutman" Helfman
Three-Ring
Creations
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 10:53:27 -0700
Reply-To: "Steve Smith a.k.a. Whiskey
Wordsmith" <psu06729@ODIN.CC.PDX.EDU>
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From: "Steve Smith a.k.a. Whiskey Wordsmith"
<psu06729@ODIN.CC.PDX.EDU>
Subject: Re: For Patricia Elliott: HST musings
Comments:
To: Arthur Nusbaum <SSASN@AOL.COM>
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<970729100539_-1843928600@emout13.mail.aol.com>
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thanks
verry much for an interesting and informative post re: HST,
Arthur.
Mucho appreciado. HST is equal parts monster and Southern
Gentleman
(cheeck out the subtitle of his Proud Highway). But he is all
writer--and
he cares very much about his craft.
as he
is fond of saying,
selah,
steve
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:42:42 -0400
Reply-To: GYENIS@AOL.COM
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From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: For Patricia Elliott: HST musings
In a
message dated 97-07-29 10:07:57 EDT, you write:
<<
The second time I encountered HST was during the NYU Beat Conference, in
May
1994.
>>
I was
there too, and taking his picture before he got onto the stage. He
motions
me over. I put down my camera and cautiously approached him. He says,
'Hey
kid, get me a soda' and reaches into his pocket for change. He pulls out
a
handfull of change in his palm, and floating amongst the change are a few
pills,
which he deftly picks out with his other hand and pops them into his
mouth.
As far
as I know, they could have been vitamin pills.
That is
basically the end of the story except I did go out and get him his
soda
and a can of Schlitz Malt Liquor (the beer that only whinos and college
kids
drink). He didn't touch the beer.
I later
took a picture of him lighting up in a elevator (only on his Dunhill
cigarettes)
right in front of a no smoking sign.
so it
goes, Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 13:02:08 -0700
Reply-To: James William Marshall
<dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
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From: James William Marshall
<dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: Chicken & Egg
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This is a reply to someone's reply. I deleted the post before I could
rememberize
the name. Anyhooey...
I know this is subjective and that but I'd
be willing to bet a bundle of
something
that Jack's despair preceded Jack's alcoholism. (Not that it
matters)
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 14:56:57 -0400
Reply-To: MATT HANNAN <MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: MATT HANNAN
<MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>
Subject: Re: Chicken & Egg
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J.W.
Marshall said:
<snip>
I know this is subjective and that but I'd
be willing to bet a bundle of
something
that Jack's despair preceded Jack's alcoholism. (Not that it
matters)
<fin
Snip>
Situational
alcoholism doesn't usually last as long or dig as deep as
Jack's
did. I have seen cases of situational
alcoholism that lasted 5
years
(following the death of a spouse) that dug pretty deep into the
psyche
and health of the abuser but was reversed by the abuser who is now
abstinent.
Chronic,
hereditary alcoholism (such as mine) is most likely what Jack
suffered
from. From all accounts I've read of
his father and mother's
drinking
patterns Jack most likely was born an alcoholic.
Addiction
(in the physical sense), in and of itself, does not stem from
life
situations, it is exacerbated by them. Alcoholism is a chronic,
treatable
disease. Despair didn't make Jack an
alcoholic, but it probably
made
him drink.
love and lilies,
matt
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 09:35:04 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
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From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Illusions & Confessions
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>
James William Marshall wrote:
>
> I think that Kerouac was all over
illusions. I believe that I'm
>
disagreeing with Diane Carter when I write that I think Kerouac usually
>
used
> an
array of substances to approach the "joy" end of the spectrum. The
>
"despair" side is quite easy to come across. Sure you have to know
>
light
>
before you can know darkness or vice versa but only nothing's pure.
You may
be right that Kerouac did use an array of substances to approach
the joy
end of the spectrum. The darkness I
think for him was easier to
experience. The problem is in thinking you can appoach
joy through
substances,
because that alone is an illusion. It
only works for a time,
and
then you are left with more despair than you started with. I agree
that
Kerouac was filled with an immensity of sorrow and despair but
alcohol,
in the long run, can do nothing more than make one's sense of
despair
deeper. It is a depressant. Kerouac seemed to approach moments
of joy,
more in solitude and seemed more sorrowful in the presence of
people. Also, to address someone else's post under
this thread, it
really
doesn't matter what type of alcoholism Kerouac exhibited, the
simple
fact is that he had a choice at any moment to stop drinking, no
matter
how hard that choice may have been.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 10:17:54 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
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From: Diane Carter
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Subject: Kerouac/Dharma Bums/Sadness
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I am
still grappling with the Kerouac joy/despair syndrome. Read Dharma
Bums
yesterday, searching for where his Buddhist studies took him. Even
here,
we still have the yo-yo effect between despair and joy. One moment
he is
writing, "the vision of the freedom of eternity is mine forever."
The
next he is saying to himself, "Poor Raymond boy, his day is so
sorrowful
and worried, his reasons are so ephemeral, it's such a haunted
and
pittiful thing to have to live...Are we fallen angels who didn't want
to
believe that nothing is nothing and so we were born to lose our loved
ones
and dear friends one by one and finally our own life, to see it
proved?"
And there is a scene between him and
Japhy (Gary Snider) that is
to the
point:
Kerouac:
"See, I said, "you wouldn't have even written that poem if it
wasn't
for the wine made you feel good!"
Snyder:
"'Ah, I would have written it anyway You're just drinking too
much
all the time, I don't see how you're even going to gain
enlightenment
and manage to stay out in the mountains, you'll always be
coming
down the hill spending your bean money on wine and finally you'll
end up
lying in the street in the rain, dead drunk, and then they'll take
you away
and you'll have to be reborn a teetotalin bartender to atone for
your
karma.' He was really sad about it, and worried about me, but I just
went on
drinking."
Even at
the end of Dharma Bums I was left with the feeling that whatever
peace
he had attained alone on the mountain would disappear quickly back
in the
world of people. I'm starting
Desolation Angels now, and there is
an
introduction in this version that was written by Joyce Johnson in
1995
(She met Jack in 1957.). She says
several things that are
interesting
in trying to understand his thinking about sorrow and
despair. She writes,
"He
began to study Buddhism in 1954, hoping that it would provide some
answers. With penetrating insight into the roots of
Jack's despair,
William
Burroughs warned him, 'A man who uses Buddhism or any other
instrument
to remove love from his being in order to avoid suffering, has
committed,
in my mind, a sacrilege comparable to castration.'
Although Kerouac would achieve a deep
intellectual understanding
of
Buddhism and would learn to practice meditation, his pursuit of peace
had a
frantic quality that was self-defeating.
Through Buddhism, he
could
rationalize the void he discovered within himself, but he could
never
really accept it. 'That nothin' means
nothin' is the saddest thing
I
know,' he once confessed to Neal Cassidy the year before his
sixty-three
days on Desolation Peak."
Joyce
Johnson concludes, "I could always sense the shadowy presence of
Jack's
spiritual pain during the months we spent together before and
after
the publication of On the Road. But I
remember feeling innately
resistant
to his view that there was no difference between birth and
death
(an argument that seemed to justify his rejection of fatherhood and
his
distrust of women). I hated being
reminded that Everything is
emptiness,
though I never hurt Jack's feelings by saying so explicitly.
The
Beat Generation writers had kicked off my own generation's
revolution. How could I believe in the Void at a time
when life seemed
so
full? For a while I thought I could
save Jack Kerouac through loving
him. But no one could.
Years later, in 1982, my
sixteen-year-old son became curious
about a
small book with a black and yellow binding that he noticed on my
shelves--Alan
Watts's Zen Flesh, Zen Bones. I must
have bought it soon
after I
met Jack, hoping to please him by attempting to understand
Busshism. When my son opened it, a piece of folded
green paper fell out.
It was part of a label for Eagle Typewriter
Paper. On the back was a
fragment
of conversation Jack had jotted down in pencil. It reflected
his
awareness of our basic philosophical conflict:
Somebody told me
that W.C. Handy had
just died--I said
'he was never even
born'--'Oh you,'
she said."
I am
about to jump into Desolation Angels, clearly aware of the idea of
desolation.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 19:39:38 -0700
Reply-To: James William Marshall
<dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: James William Marshall
<dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: The Western Lands
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I'm 150 pages into TWL. Enjoying it thoroughly. I'm wondering if anyone
else
has started reading it or if someone who has read it and / or studied
it
would like to make some comments about it.
I'm quite impressed with the
way
Burroughs has woven past and future, religion(s) and violence. _The
Tibetan
Book of the Dead_ appears to be a crucial element in understanding
the novel
and as I haven't read it, I'm sure that I'm missing out on a lot
of the
allusions. I look forward to hearing
from anyone who might be able
to
offer any insights.
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 20:38:32 -0700
Reply-To: James William Marshall
<dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall
<dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: Re: The Western Lands
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Race,
You're right about the Egyptian / Tibetan
thing. (Just another shining
example
of my stupidity). TWL _is_ the novel
with the One God Universe.
What's
your take on Burrough's use of this concept?
Judging from your last
post it
sounds as if you've got some things to say.
Please say 'em so I can
look
for things to say back.
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 23:49:37 -0400
Reply-To: Tread37@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jenn Fedor <Tread37@AOL.COM>
Subject: Anne Rice
okay,
guys - so she's no kerouac or ginsberg...
but it
is a different style of writing. as
unpopular as my view may be, i
think
she has excellent characterization skills and tells a story quite well.
but to each his/her own...:)
apples
and oranges...
or at
least oranges and lemons,
jenn
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 23:10:00 CDT
Reply-To: Gary Shank
<P30GDS1@MVS.CSO.NIU.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gary Shank
<P30GDS1@MVS.CSO.NIU.EDU>
Subject: Re: BEAT-L Digest - 28 Jul 1997 to 29
Jul 1997
The
following is a legitimate appeal. If
you are offended
by my
use of email in this manner, please flame me at
gshank@niu.edu and not Allan. Please feel free to pass
along
this message as well...
thank
you for your attention and patience
gary
shank
gshank@niu.edu
Dear
Top5 Subscribers,
My name
is Chris White, and you may know me as the owner and
editor
of The Top 5 List. I apologize in
advance for using
this
venue for something other than Top5 or comedy, but I
assure
you this is of sufficient urgency to warrant it.
I am
forwarding a message from a friend of mine, Alan Kuo,
who is
dying of leukemia and has only a few months to live
unless
he can find a bone marrow donor who matches him.
I
assure you that this is no e-mail hoax, as I know Alan
personally
and have known of his condition for some time now.
I hope
that this is one instance where the awesome power of
the
Internet can truly make a difference.
If you
have no interest, then you needn't read further.
For
those of you who *are* interested, here's Alan's message.
Thank
you for anything you can do to help.
Sincerly,
Chris
July
24, 1997
Dear
friends, apologies for the mass-mailing and for the delays.
Most of
you have not heard from me for awhile, or at best received a
cursory
note saying that I was busy. I owe each
of you an
explanation. When reading what follows, I ask that you
think of
pleasant
times and conversations, both profound and light-hearted,
that I
have had with each of you. Without
further ado, here is my
explanation:
As each
of you already knows, I have been suffering from chronic
myelogenous
leukemia for more than two years.
Various attempts to
control
or eradicate the cancerous bone marrow cells have so far
failed. But at least my doctor and I were able to
keep the cancer at
bay to
the extent that I could function as a normal and real human
being. For the past two years I have sought
treatments, worked and
played,
traveled and enjoyed the big and little things in Life,
continued
old friendships and even built new ones, and found Love.
So in a
sense my cancer was not real, it was merely an abstraction
from a
blood smear.
Now
everything has changed, and not for the better. On July 7, 1997,
I was
diagnosed as entering 'blast crisis', where the erstwhile
chronic
leukemia becomes acute and chemotherapeutic regimens become
but
delaying actions to forestall the inevitable.
From three to six
months
from now my cancerous marrow cells will proliferate out of
control
and kill me, unless they are ruthlessly eradicated and
replaced
with someone else's healthy bone marrow.
Of course that
healthy
marrow must be tissue-compatible with me (must 'match' me).
Most of
you already know about the existence of bone marrow donor
registries,
that no one on those registries matches me, and that the
best
chance of finding someone who matches me is to add as many
Asians
as possible to those registries. And
many of you, thankfully,
have
made great efforts to add Asians to those registries.
Unfortunately,
despite two years of effort, we have not yet found a
match
for me. So today, I ask you to join me
to try again. I say,
One
last push. Because THIS IS IT.
So what
to do? Just get every Asian on the
planet registered.
Here's
how to do it:
1. If
you are Asian, get yourself registered.
And your relatives
too.
In the USA, it's free.
2. Get
all your Asian friends, colleagues, and associates registered.
3. Pass
this note (soft and hard copies) or selected parts of it to
everyone, and I mean EVERYONE. I have written a 'personal appeal'
at the bottom of this email that should be
suitable for this
purpose.
The same appeal appears on my new website.
4.
Website, what website? It should be
up-and-running by the time
you get this email. It is rudimentary, but is improving. The
technical master behind it is Ben Burbridge
and technical
difficulties shall be made known to
him. This website contains all
sorts of stuff that are useful in order to
get registered and to
convince other people to register. Feel free to copy or download
anything there. The URL is www.slip.net/~rwwood
5.
Volunteer for registration drives, or organize one yourself. An
easy way to do this is to call up one of
the non-profit organizations
that exist to register Asians. There is
also no reason you might not
donate technical expertise or money to
these or other such
organizations. In the USA, the major non-profits are:
Asian American Donor Program (AADP)
2363 Mariner Square Drive, Suite 241
Alameda, CA 94501 USA
1-800-593-6667
510-523-3366 phone
510-523-3790 fax
asamdonors@aol.com
Asians for Miracle Marrow Matches (A3M)
Casa Heiwa, 231 E. 3rd St.
Los Angeles, CA 90013 USA
1-888-A3M-HOPE
213-473-1661 phone
a3m@ltsc.org
Cammy Lee Leukemia Foundation (CLLF)
37 St. Marks Place, Suite B
New York, New York 10003 USA
1-800-77-CAMMY
212-460-5983 phone
212-460-5971 fax
cllf@juno.com
Buddhist Compassion Relief
Tzu-Chi Foundation USA (BCRTCFUSA)
1000 S. Garfield Ave.
Los Angeles, CA 91801 USA
626-281-9801 marrow hotline
626-281-3383 phone
626-281-9799 fax
buddhist.tzu.chi.free.clinic@worldnet.att.net
6. Do
your own thing. For example, Ray Lin
has today taken it upon
himself to contact every news agency in the
San Francisco Bay Area
and talk them into running a story about
me. Holle Singer filmed an
interview with me in New York to be used as
a public service
announcement. Ben of course created the website. Others of you have
volunteered to write newspaper articles or
to create videos or to
contact Asian community organizations or
Asian churches. Translation
of my personal appeal into Korean and
Vietnamese is a must (I already
have people doing Chinese and Japanese).
7. For
more information, consult the website, contact the non-profits,
or talk to my parents James and Joyce
[djea88a@prodigy.com], my
sister Zenda [zendakuo@compuserve.com], or
my sweetie Ako [ah@aapcho.
org].
DO NOT REPLY to this email address, as it is temporary.
I find
this letter strange, because as you know I am a fairly
independent
kind of person. But for the first time
I truly truly
need
your help. Without it I definitely will
not make it to your
next
birthday party. ;)
Good
luck, take care, and of course, be most excellent to your
friends. Love, Alan
PERSONAL
APPEAL follows
Hello. My name is Alan Kuo. I have only three months left to live,
according
to my doctors. Only someone like you
can save me. This is
why:
I have
leukemia, a cancer of the blood. The
only known cure for this
disease
is a bone marrow transplant. Without it
I will die. To
receive
a transplant, I must find a tissue-matched donor. Because
tissue
type varies by ethnicity, my matching donor will most likely
be
found among people like myself, people of Asian descent - like
you.
So far,
I have not found a matching donor.
This is
why I am appealing to you, a fellow Asian, to ask for your
help. You and your friends can make the difference
between life and
death
for me, as well as for others present and future who suffer
from this
cancer. It takes just fifteen minutes
of your time, a
simple
blood test will determine if you are my match.
Please help
save my
life by registering with your local marrow donor program.
My
parents are immigrants from China and Taiwan, and I love them and
my
sister dearly. My family has pushed me
to study hard at Harvard
and to
earn my PhD at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology; I am
presently
doing biomedical research at the University of California
at San
Francisco, a premier medical center which is also treating my
leukemia. I am sad that my promising career is being
prematurely
terminated
by a random disease. I am far more
saddened by the
possibility
of being separated forever, in as little as three months,
from my
family, from my many friends, and from my dear Ako. And I
wish
more than anything to continue enjoying this blessing we call
Life. So please get your tissue typed, you might
save a life.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 00:58:26 -0400
Reply-To: "Hipster Beat Poet."
<jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Hipster Beat Poet."
<jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>
Subject: WSB and U2
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
its
been known by various sources that Bono of U2 is one of many
musicians
who admire Burrough's work. If anyone dares to watch MTV these
days,
check out the new U2 song "last night on earth". Burroughs makes a
guest
appearance towards the end of the video. Apparently the video is
about
the apocalypse. Bono and the boys are desperatly looking for a way
out,
only to run into Burroughs in the end who is holding a strange
mirror-like
object that emits strange bright rays. Leave it to Old Bull
Lee to
save the day :)
jason
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 00:17:26 -0500
Reply-To: "E.j.C." <beat@SKY.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "E.j.C."
<beat@SKY.NET>
Subject: Re: WSB and U2
Comments:
To: "Hipster Beat Poet." <jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.OSF.3.91.970730005535.17174B-100000@turbo.kean.edu>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
hmm...
i saw the video the other day and thought it was him, but wasn't
sure.
just to note, my hometown is pictured in the background of one of
the
very last scenes... joyous, eh? -jEnn in k.c.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Wed,
30 Jul 1997, Hipster Beat Poet. wrote:
>
its been known by various sources that Bono of U2 is one of many
>
musicians who admire Burrough's work. If anyone dares to watch MTV these
>
days, check out the new U2 song "last night on earth". Burroughs
makes a
>
guest appearance towards the end of the video. Apparently the video is
>
about the apocalypse. Bono and the boys are desperatly looking for a way
>
out, only to run into Burroughs in the end who is holding a strange
>
mirror-like object that emits strange bright rays. Leave it to Old Bull
>
Lee to save the day :)
> jason
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 01:00:52 -0500
Reply-To: "E.j.C." <beat@SKY.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "E.j.C."
<beat@SKY.NET>
Subject: Re: BEAT-L Digest - 28 Jul 1997 to 29
Jul 1997
Comments:
To: Gary Shank <P30GDS1@MVS.CSO.NIU.EDU>
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1997073000162755@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
dear
beat-l-ers. sorry again for this msg which does not pertain directly
to beat
related info, but i'd like to throw in my two cents. i am an
18 yr
old asian grrl and have been a part of the bone marrow donor
registry
since the day of my 18th birthday, and will be a member
until i
turn 60. today i received _the marrow messenger_, a newsletter for
ppl who
are a part of the national marrow donor registry. inside is a
touching
article about the need for minority donors. "the greatest chance
of
finding a match is within one's own racial or ethnic group." while the
number
of minority donors has increased greatly in the last 6 yrs, there
can
never be too many. i'd like to support alan and ask ppl to sign up
with
the registry as soon as possible. donating bone marrow and other
blood
material can help save lives. and if you're unable to donate bone
marrow,
$$ donations of any amount are just as important. they help to
fund
important
R&D.
the medical procedures being developed to aide in these processes
have
the potential to be more convienient for the donor, and more
effective
for the recipient. an example is the _peripheral blood stem
cell
transplant_ option. it includes a process similar to the one
used
for donating
platelets.
initially, all it takes is a few minutes for a nurse to draw
your
blood to be tested for your 'tissue type.' then your name and type go
into a
computer database and waits until a match is found. whether you
choose
to donate once you've been matched-up is totally up to you.
(however,
i wouldn't suggest registering if you _never_ intend to donate)
have a
heart and take the time. who knows, it may be your best friend's,
next
door neighbor's, or future partner's life you save. -E. jEnnIfEr c.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Tue,
29 Jul 1997, Gary Shank wrote:
>
The following is a legitimate appeal.
If you are offended
> by
my use of email in this manner, please flame me at
>
gshank@niu.edu and not Allan. Please feel free to pass
>
along this message as well...
>
thank you for your attention and patience
>
gary shank
>
gshank@niu.edu
>
>
>
>
>
>
Dear Top5 Subscribers,
>
> My
name is Chris White, and you may know me as the owner and
>
editor of The Top 5 List. I apologize
in advance for using
>
this venue for something other than Top5 or comedy, but I
>
assure you this is of sufficient urgency to warrant it.
>
> I
am forwarding a message from a friend of mine, Alan Kuo,
>
who is dying of leukemia and has only a few months to live
>
unless he can find a bone marrow donor who matches him.
>
> I
assure you that this is no e-mail hoax, as I know Alan
>
personally and have known of his condition for some time now.
> I
hope that this is one instance where the awesome power of
>
the Internet can truly make a difference.
>
> If
you have no interest, then you needn't read further.
>
For those of you who *are* interested, here's Alan's message.
>
>
Thank you for anything you can do to help.
>
>
Sincerly,
>
Chris
>
>
>
July 24, 1997
>
>
Dear friends, apologies for the mass-mailing and for the delays.
>
Most of you have not heard from me for awhile, or at best received a
>
cursory note saying that I was busy. I
owe each of you an
>
explanation. When reading what follows,
I ask that you think of
>
pleasant times and conversations, both profound and light-hearted,
>
that I have had with each of you.
Without further ado, here is my
>
explanation:
>
> As
each of you already knows, I have been suffering from chronic
>
myelogenous leukemia for more than two years.
Various attempts to
>
control or eradicate the cancerous bone marrow cells have so far
>
failed. But at least my doctor and I
were able to keep the cancer at
>
bay to the extent that I could function as a normal and real human
>
being. For the past two years I have
sought treatments, worked and
>
played, traveled and enjoyed the big and little things in Life,
>
continued old friendships and even built new ones, and found Love.
> So
in a sense my cancer was not real, it was merely an abstraction
>
from a blood smear.
>
>
Now everything has changed, and not for the better. On July 7, 1997,
> I
was diagnosed as entering 'blast crisis', where the erstwhile
>
chronic leukemia becomes acute and chemotherapeutic regimens become
>
but delaying actions to forestall the inevitable. From three to six
>
months from now my cancerous marrow cells will proliferate out of
>
control and kill me, unless they are ruthlessly eradicated and
>
replaced with someone else's healthy bone marrow. Of course that
>
healthy marrow must be tissue-compatible with me (must 'match' me).
>
>
Most of you already know about the existence of bone marrow donor
>
registries, that no one on those registries matches me, and that the
>
best chance of finding someone who matches me is to add as many
>
Asians as possible to those registries.
And many of you, thankfully,
>
have made great efforts to add Asians to those registries.
>
Unfortunately, despite two years of effort, we have not yet found a
>
match for me. So today, I ask you to
join me to try again. I say,
>
One last push. Because THIS IS IT.
>
> So
what to do? Just get every Asian on the
planet registered.
>
Here's how to do it:
>
> 1.
If you are Asian, get yourself registered.
And your relatives
> too.
In the USA, it's free.
>
> 2.
Get all your Asian friends, colleagues, and associates registered.
>
> 3.
Pass this note (soft and hard copies) or selected parts of it to
> everyone, and I mean EVERYONE. I have written a 'personal appeal'
> at the bottom of this email that should be
suitable for this
> purpose.
The same appeal appears on my new website.
>
> 4.
Website, what website? It should be
up-and-running by the time
> you get this email. It is rudimentary, but is improving. The
> technical master behind it is Ben
Burbridge and technical
> difficulties shall be made known to
him. This website contains all
> sorts of stuff that are useful in order to
get registered and to
> convince other people to register. Feel free to copy or download
> anything there. The URL is www.slip.net/~rwwood
>
> 5.
Volunteer for registration drives, or organize one yourself. An
> easy way to do this is to call up one of
the non-profit organizations
> that exist to register Asians. There is
also no reason you might not
> donate technical expertise or money to
these or other such
> organizations. In the USA, the major non-profits are:
>
> Asian American Donor Program (AADP)
> 2363 Mariner Square Drive, Suite 241
> Alameda, CA 94501 USA
> 1-800-593-6667
> 510-523-3366 phone
> 510-523-3790 fax
> asamdonors@aol.com
>
> Asians for Miracle Marrow Matches (A3M)
> Casa Heiwa, 231 E. 3rd St.
> Los Angeles, CA 90013 USA
> 1-888-A3M-HOPE
> 213-473-1661 phone
> a3m@ltsc.org
>
> Cammy Lee Leukemia Foundation (CLLF)
> 37 St. Marks Place, Suite B
> New York, New York 10003 USA
> 1-800-77-CAMMY
> 212-460-5983 phone
> 212-460-5971 fax
> cllf@juno.com
>
> Buddhist Compassion Relief
> Tzu-Chi Foundation USA (BCRTCFUSA)
> 1000 S. Garfield Ave.
> Los Angeles, CA 91801 USA
> 626-281-9801 marrow hotline
> 626-281-3383 phone
> 626-281-9799 fax
>
buddhist.tzu.chi.free.clinic@worldnet.att.net
>
> 6.
Do your own thing. For example, Ray Lin
has today taken it upon
> himself to contact every news agency in
the San Francisco Bay Area
> and talk them into running a story about
me. Holle Singer filmed an
> interview with me in New York to be used
as a public service
> announcement. Ben of course created the website. Others of you have
> volunteered to write newspaper articles or
to create videos or to
> contact Asian community organizations or
Asian churches. Translation
> of my personal appeal into Korean and
Vietnamese is a must (I already
> have people doing Chinese and Japanese).
>
> 7.
For more information, consult the website, contact the non-profits,
> or talk to my parents James and Joyce
[djea88a@prodigy.com], my
> sister Zenda [zendakuo@compuserve.com], or
my sweetie Ako [ah@aapcho.
> org].
DO NOT REPLY to this email address, as it is temporary.
>
> I
find this letter strange, because as you know I am a fairly
>
independent kind of person. But for the
first time I truly truly
>
need your help. Without it I definitely
will not make it to your
>
next birthday party. ;)
>
>
Good luck, take care, and of course, be most excellent to your
>
friends. Love, Alan
>
>
PERSONAL APPEAL follows
>
>
Hello. My name is Alan Kuo. I have only three months left to live,
>
according to my doctors. Only someone
like you can save me. This is
>
why:
>
> I
have leukemia, a cancer of the blood.
The only known cure for this
>
disease is a bone marrow transplant.
Without it I will die. To
>
receive a transplant, I must find a tissue-matched donor. Because
>
tissue type varies by ethnicity, my matching donor will most likely
> be
found among people like myself, people of Asian descent - like
>
you.
>
> So
far, I have not found a matching donor.
>
>
This is why I am appealing to you, a fellow Asian, to ask for your
>
help. You and your friends can make the
difference between life and
>
death for me, as well as for others present and future who suffer
>
from this cancer. It takes just fifteen
minutes of your time, a
>
simple blood test will determine if you are my match. Please help
>
save my life by registering with your local marrow donor program.
>
> My
parents are immigrants from China and Taiwan, and I love them and
> my
sister dearly. My family has pushed me
to study hard at Harvard
>
and to earn my PhD at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology; I am
>
presently doing biomedical research at the University of California
> at
San Francisco, a premier medical center which is also treating my
>
leukemia. I am sad that my promising
career is being prematurely
>
terminated by a random disease. I am
far more saddened by the
>
possibility of being separated forever, in as little as three months,
>
from my family, from my many friends, and from my dear Ako. And I
>
wish more than anything to continue enjoying this blessing we call
>
Life. So please get your tissue typed,
you might save a life.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 15:08:17 +0200
Reply-To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: september song:the music of kurt weill
In-Reply-To:
<199707290341.XAA09328@mailhub.southeast.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
dear
beat-L,
i
remember hst's works like a bunch of bats over a shark car.
words
& vampires. september song in the background.
---
yrs
Rinaldo
*
"Tristo
e' quel discepolo che non avanza il maestro"
--
Leonardo da Vinci
*
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 08:43:23 -0700
Reply-To: James William Marshall
<dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall
<dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: U2 and Beats
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
jason
and jEnn,
I don't know if "The Making of
Pop" ever aired in the U.S. but I posted a
while
back that Allen Ginsberg read the lyrics to "Miami" on it. It was
pretty
cool. Bono appears to have been
influenced by this beat as well.
I think a whole hell of a lot of bands have
been influenced by the beats.
A
pretty decent Canadian band, I Mother Earth, makes a point of
acknowledging
the movement on their latest (interactive) cd:
"Scenery and
Fish". One of their songs, "Raspberry"
strikes me as quite beat: "Held in
my
hands, a warm cup of skin always taken in by peers and friends and the
heightened
fears over the years. Now I know I'm
not like everyone... I know
I can
say, I'm honest with myself and with my red tasty gem. And sure they
will
try, but they can't take away my secret loving friend. And on a good
day, my
mind is like the country... green wide open.
A breath of zen that's
nice on
the eyes, lonely, without a prayer.
Take the trip that I have. I
am at
risk but I guess you know... Explosions
from the goldfish bowl.
Visions
of blue girls crying stars. The more
the garden sings the harder it
gets to
stay in. There are a lot of choices so
many voices ruling me. So
many of
them at once yelling, 'everything's a mess'... I know".
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 11:49:38 -0400
Reply-To: "Hipster Beat Poet." <jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Hipster Beat Poet."
<jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>
Subject: ginsberg and U2
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
i went
to the U2 Popmart show and i do remember seeing allen ginsberg's
face on
the video wall during one of the songs. I also saw the making of
pop
which did air in the states with allen reading lyrics from the song
"miami".
The most quoted beat-figure by musicians is still Burroughs. How
could
you blame anyone for that? He did coin the word "heavy metal" long
before
anyone else did.
jason
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:42:34 -0400
Reply-To: Goose Bumping Records
<frsn@INTAC.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Goose Bumping Records
<frsn@INTAC.COM>
Subject: Lowell
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
My
friend and I are taking a bit of a pilgrimmage to Mr. Kerouac's
hometown,
and I was wondering if anyone could enlighten me on what we
should
go out of our way to see, and any other information that might be
relevant.
Thanks,
oh, and please reply privately, off the list,
Thanks
again,
Steve
www.beatcafe.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 10:06:45 -0700
Reply-To: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: ginsberg and U2
Comments:
To: "Hipster Beat Poet." <jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
11:49 AM 7/30/97 -0400, you wrote:
>i
went to the U2 Popmart show and i do remember seeing allen ginsberg's
>face
on the video wall during one of the songs. I also saw the making of
>pop
which did air in the states with allen reading lyrics from the song
>"miami".
The most quoted beat-figure by musicians is still Burroughs. How
>could
you blame anyone for that? He did coin the word "heavy metal" long
>before
anyone else did.
I think
the Chemists beat William Burroughs in coining this phrase.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 11:29:35 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: SF Bay Area Beat-L Bash
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1.0
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Any
Beat-l folks within reach of the SF Bay area on the evening of
August
2 are reminded of the SF Bay Area Beat-L Bash.
Don't miss this
great
opportunity to put a person with the e-mail tag you've come to
love or
hate.
Cheap
Red Wine,
Mad
talkathons
Visions
and Hallucinations optional.
Please
backchannel for information and directions.
James
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 15:48:24 -0700
Reply-To: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Ginsberg reference [Modern Painters
v10#2p68
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<<Om>>
Allen
Ginsberg was born in about 1927. He
became famous in the '50s for
his
poem _Howl_ and then he became a spokesman for world peace. In the
'60s he
chanted Om against the Pentagon. He did
a lot of breathing
exercices
and chanting and he was influenced by Charles Olsen who did
breathing
too. But soon he was influencing
everyone himself. When he
died he
was being filmed by TV. I saw him give
a reading at the
Roundhouse
once, in 1979, with Peter Orlovsky, who had just published a
good
book of poems called _Clean Asshole and Vegetable Poems_. They
both
read their stuff and then Allen Ginsberg did some chanting and
singing,
and it was really moving, even though it sounds embarrassing.
Before that, he was in Bob Dylan's
film _Renaldo and Clara_, which was
four
hours long. It was hardly ever any
good. Even when Bob Dylan
played
really well in it, which he did often, he was wearing white
make-up
and black eye shadow, and a cowboy hat with a feather in it, and
it was
impossible to watch. But the worst bits
were when Allen Ginsberg
came
on. Somehow it was just even more
unwatchable then. I don't know,
there's
something about Allen Ginsberg -- he has to be edited, and that
was an
incredibly rambling unstructured film.
It just wasn't a good way
to
experience the Ginsberg act.
=-=--Douglas
----> o{--- [ babu@electriciti.com
(Alfred Korzybski) www.electriciti.com/babu/
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 19:48:30 -0400
Reply-To: Julian Ruck <plagal@WEBTV.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck <plagal@WEBTV.NET>
Subject: ???
Content-Type:
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Content-Transfer-Encoding:
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i have
a question...
i am
stead-fast against drug-use...are there many beats who do not use
drugs?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 17:06:07 -0700
Reply-To: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: ???
Comments:
To: Julian Ruck <plagal@WEBTV.NET>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
07:48 PM 7/30/97 -0400, you wrote:
>i
have a question...
>i
am stead-fast against drug-use...are there many beats who do not use
>drugs?
>
>
Do you
mean did or do?
I don't
think there are many beats now. I
unfortunately think too many here
or who
id with "the beats" do do dugs today.
I think
one aspect of On the Road and other kerouac and beat writing that
intrigues
and interests people is the drug use.
If a young person is doing
drugs
(smoking dope onl even) reading On the Road strikes a chord.
At the
same time I'll bet there are folks who read it who have never used drugs.
I once
(and have told this story before) reccommended my friend buy Visions
of
Gerard for his sister's birthday. She
never used drugs and was a serious
Catholic,
even worked for Mother teresa's group for a while.
And she
loved the book. I don't think she'd
read anything quite like it.
So
drugs don't necessarily have to be part of the interest or the reason for
liking
"beats" but I think that most definately they play a large role.
Probably
too large.
I think
drugs are a big waste of time and money and everything else.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 20:18:51 -0400
Reply-To: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: ???
Comments:
To: Julian Ruck <plagal@WEBTV.NET>
In-Reply-To:
<199707302348.QAA17041@mailtod-1.alma.webtv.net>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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On Wed,
30 Jul 1997, Julian Ruck trolled:
> i
am stead-fast against drug-use...are there many beats who do not use
>
drugs?
hmm.
yeah, no beats use drugs, depending on what you call them. what are
drugs?
would that be _any_ drug -- as in, any animal/vegetable/mineral
substance
used in the composition of medicine? coffee, tea, etc. -- or
dangerous
lethal legal drugs like saccharine alcohol tobbaco phen-fen (sp),
or just
drugs that are illegal "controlled substances" in the us (but not
all
other countries)? also illegal during what years? because marijuana was
legal
when most of the beats were born in the 20s, so if they used it as
children
it wouldn't have been an illegal drug. ecstasy was legal until
1985,
so...hmm, which drugs?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 19:11:35 -0500
Reply-To: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: ???
MIME-Version:
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Julian
Ruck wrote:
>
> i
have a question...
> i
am stead-fast against drug-use...are there many beats who do not use
>
drugs?
define
drugs, coffee, alcoh, medicinal, opiates, define beats , lol
p
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 19:19:01 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: ???
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Michael
Stutz wrote:
>
> On
Wed, 30 Jul 1997, Julian Ruck trolled:
>
>
> i am stead-fast against drug-use...are there many beats who do not use
>
> drugs?
>
>
hmm. yeah, no beats use drugs, depending on what you call them. what are
>
drugs? would that be _any_ drug -- as in, any animal/vegetable/mineral
>
substance used in the composition of medicine? coffee, tea, etc. -- or
>
dangerous lethal legal drugs like saccharine alcohol tobbaco phen-fen (sp),
> or
just drugs that are illegal "controlled substances" in the us (but
not
>
all other countries)? also illegal during what years? because marijuana was
>
legal when most of the beats were born in the 20s, so if they used it as
>
children it wouldn't have been an illegal drug. ecstasy was legal until
>
1985, so...hmm, which drugs?
i just
ate some raisins - does that count?
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 20:28:09 -0400
Reply-To: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: ???
Comments:
To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
In-Reply-To: <33DFD9F5.1DC2@midusa.net>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed,
30 Jul 1997, RACE --- wrote:
> i
just ate some raisins - does that count?
hmm.
define "raisins." define "i" -- and while you're at it,
definte "count."
hmm.
define the words you used to definte these terms.
hmm.
what is drugs and beats?
hmm.
what am i saying?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 20:26:50 -0400
Reply-To: Julian Ruck <plagal@WEBTV.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck <plagal@WEBTV.NET>
Subject: ok ok...
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alright,
you all know very well what i mean by drugs...
i mean
mind-altering substances that can have potentialy disasterous
effects
on your nervous system and/or brain...
examples...
pot,
lsd, ecstacy, speed...etc...
i just
had a question and now people are getting so uptight and
smart-assy
about it....
does
the use of the afore-mentioned drugs play as big a role in the life
of a
beat as it is generally thought...
-julian
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 20:35:20 -0400
Reply-To: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: ok ok...
Comments:
To: Julian Ruck <plagal@WEBTV.NET>
In-Reply-To:
<199707310026.RAA16319@mailtod-2.alma.webtv.net>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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On Wed,
30 Jul 1997, Julian Ruck wrote:
>
alright, you all know very well what i mean by drugs...
actually,
no not sure...i thought i knew what 'drugs' were once, but then i
read a
lot of books.
> i
mean mind-altering substances that can have potentialy disasterous
>
effects on your nervous system and/or brain...
>
examples...
>
pot, lsd, ecstacy, speed...etc...
any
chemical can have potentialy disasterous effects on your nervous system
and/or
brain, so you would have to include a lot more than just those you
list. i
think what you are getting at is the chemicals currently unpopular
with
the us government as well as christianity and other organized
religion-businesses.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 17:49:33 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: ???
MIME-Version:
1.0
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None
worthy of the name, in my not always humble opinion. An Oxymoron.
Sort of
like Hells Angels for Christ--the idea of clean and sober
Beatdom.
Julian
Ruck wrote:
>
> i
have a question...
> i
am stead-fast against drug-use...are there many beats who do not use
>
drugs?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 17:47:20 -0700
Reply-To: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: ok ok...
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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>any
chemical can have potentialy disasterous effects on your nervous system
>and/or
brain, so you would have to include a lot more than just those you
>list.
Like
what?
If
there are so many, name them.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 17:48:44 -0700
Reply-To: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: ???
Comments:
To: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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Funny
how peole get into their defensive closed mind set mode when something
close
to their hearts is mildly criticized.
Close
minded wimps.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 19:50:34 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: definition of beat
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i think
the definition of beat is being steadfastly against being
steadfastly
against anything or nothing. ... or
something else.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
my
drugs are prescribed.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 21:22:02 -0400
Reply-To: Michael Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: ok ok...
Comments:
To: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <199707310047.RAA29724@hsc.usc.edu>
MIME-Version:
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Timothy
K. Gallaher said, "Funny how peole get into their defensive closed
mind
set mode when something close to their hearts is mildly criticized.
"Close
minded wimps."
It
always has to get ugly around here. Why? Why do I get the worst kneejerk
politically
correct types after me whenever i open my mouth on this list?=
=20
>
>any chemical can have potentialy disasterous effects on your nervous sys=
tem
>
>and/or brain, so you would have to include a lot more than just those yo=
u
>
>list.
>=20
>
Like what?
>=20
> If
there are so many, name them.
sorry
you had a bad trip once, but here's your fucking list. infinitely
shorter
than it could be -- though i believe ginsberg burroughs and hunter
thompson
would all be equally impressed by my drug reference library -- but
i don't
have time for this shit tonight.
i'm not
going to list the ones which only have adverse effects in rare
instances
(of which lsd and marijuana are included), so these are all big
players
in that department:
serzone
effexor
disepramine=20
dextromethorphan
dexfenfluramine
fen-phen
melatonin
nutmeg
ibogaine
guaran=E1=20
serotonin
bufotenine
amanita
muscaria
aspartame
prozac
nicotine
(one drop will kill you)
codeine
salvia
divinorum
caffeine
(yes always affects brain, and _can_ induce psychomotor agitation,=
diuresis and cardiac arrhythmia)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 21:47:29 -0700
Reply-To: mike@infinet.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael L. Buchenroth"
<mike@INFINET.COM>
Organization:
Buchenroth Publishing Company
Subject: Re: ???
Comments:
To: Julian Ruck <plagal@WEBTV.NET>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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7bit
Julian
Ruck wrote:
>
> i
have a question...
> i
am stead-fast against drug-use...are there many beats who do not use
>
drugs?
***
Break
on through to the other side of that damn picture tube; inhale and
suck in
some radiation; let your limbic system glow neon as you fire up
some
negativly charged electrons, jack that shit off good, burn on into
prime
time inside that Bardoless propaganda box -- DARE speaks your
mind,
burnt from the sublime -- crunch up a transister; roll it up;
smoke
it up; jab another up your ass; the nightly news approaches; hold
that
sacred remote tight against yaself; yage know that I would be a
liar,
if I were to say to you, I don't think we can get much higher, but
dead
set against abiguity, unaware, the unwashed speaks, lit my fire up
anything
water soluble cooked down or not... change the channel please.
***
Michael
L. Buchenroth
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 22:19:56 -0400
Reply-To: Undetermined origin c/o LISTSERV
administrator
<owner-LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: RFC822 error: <E> Mail origin
cannot be determined.
Comments: RFC822 error: <E> Original tag data
was -> Bil Brown <>
From: Undetermined origin c/o LISTSERV
administrator
<owner-LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: ok ok...
Comments:
To: Julian Ruck <plagal@WEBTV.NET>
In-Reply-To:
<199707310026.RAA16319@mailtod-2.alma.webtv.net>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Alright.
This string of nonesensicaal meandering is getting out of hand...
We know
w3hat you meana ... MOST OF THE BEATS are just as bitchy when you
say
drugs as the ppl on this listserve. You, my friend are a bit confused
when you
say "drugs" have a disasterous effect on the nervous system. LSD
is one
example that you shouldn't use (look it up, why don't you) and if
you
want to talk opiates... dearie Heroin is one of the safest drugs
around
when it comes to the body (hygene is a different story of
course...)
I think
what you are refering to is the Beat's (" " ) use of illegal
substances...
um, I think the movement was about the initiate "deranging
the
senses" to get to a point where they could tell the difference between
bogus
"law" and the real "order" of things... so: NO is an answer
to your
most
unflattering question.
Bil
Brown
Try me
@___
bil@orca.sitesonthe.net____________________________________________________IfI
don't
reply there... IF I don't repy there...
try me
@ VOXPOET2@aol.com...
if I'm not there...hmf... call me on
the phone if you can.... : )
____________________
*__________________________
On Wed,
30 Jul 1997, Julian Ruck wrote:
>
alright, you all know very well what i mean by drugs...
> i
mean mind-altering substances that can have potentialy disasterous
>
effects on your nervous system and/or brain...
>
examples...
>
pot, lsd, ecstacy, speed...etc...
> i
just had a question and now people are getting so uptight and
>
smart-assy about it....
>
does the use of the afore-mentioned drugs play as big a role in the life
> of
a beat as it is generally thought...
>
>
-julian
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:04:31 -0400
Reply-To: Ddrooy@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: definition of beat
Comments:
To: race@midusa.net
In a
message dated 97-07-30 22:29:57 EDT, the very racy race writes:
<<
i think the definition of beat is being
steadfastly against being
steadfastly against anything or nothing. ... or something else.
>>
I think
the definition of "Beat" is, "A person who doesn't sit around
wondering
what the definition of 'Beat' is."
diane
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 00:30:48 -0400
Reply-To: "Hipster Beat Poet."
<jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Hipster Beat Poet."
<jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>
Subject: if you were a character from a Beat
book....
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
here's
a thinking question:
if you could be any character from any
fictional story by the
beats
(yes i know kerouac and burroughs base their writings on real
events)
which character would you be? Personally i'd like to be Sal
Paradise
or Dean because they seem to have lots of fun and adventures.
jason
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:34:05 -0500
Reply-To: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: ok ok...
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Patricia
Elliott wrote:
>
>
Julian Ruck wrote:
>
> i just had a question and now people are getting so uptight and
>
> smart-assy about it....
>
> does the use of the afore-mentioned drugs play as big a role in the life
>
> of a beat as it is generally thought...
> a
>
> i
am not smart assy, you are, what beat? you are violently against them
>
(some sorts of drugs ) but you insist that "them" is all the same to
us.
>
tain't to me. If it is smart assey to ask for a clarification of terms
>
and context i get damn smart assy, i don't plan to be a good old girl
>
and gee man yea, i say , what are you asking and are we speaking of the
>
same items and context and what times, etc.
> i think jesus christ, where is the context
to this question, might as
>
well ask if jk drank or if methadone works or if
>
>does mind altering drugs must be dangerous and self destructive,
what if the most destructive thing i see is
the crazed war on drugs a
feeding
frenzy into a police and prison state. toke and you go to prison
for
life is a great beat experiance.
> p
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:46:10 -0500
Reply-To: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: western lands
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
ah,
where is wsb headed. a clue to me is that title. western lands,
sounds
inviting. The book dedicated to b gyson
one of wsbs most beloved
and
admired people. i find it one of his most interesting books. of the
trilogy
i think it is strong in his sense of space.
thelanguage is the
more structured yet not missing the wild flowing
nature he often
surprises
you with.
I think this is a book written in kansas.
the first couple of pages
show a
writer, starting to free himself of a long and terrible block.
i feel
a reborn movement in the book, through the animals and interest .
it is
characters that feel again.
p
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 22:32:40 -0700
Reply-To: James William Marshall
<dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall
<dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: TWL
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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I've got a stupid question and a stupid
analogy.
The question: The journey is to the Western Lands where, in my
understanding,
one attains immortality. Why would one
want to be immortal,
especially
in the setting Burroughs creates?
The analogy: TWL seems like a really graphic (<-two senses of the word)
video
game: secrets, obstacles and an
objective. There seems to be two
ways to
get to the Western Lands: through
violence or peace.
A question arising from the analogy... wait.
Nevermind. I think I just
figured
it out.
By the way, I'm really enjoying the
polytheistic versus monotheistic
thread
in the novel. It's comical and
incredibly sensible at the same time.
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 07:38:42 +0200
Reply-To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: graffiti
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
dear
beat-l,
i found
this site very interesting
http://www.repubblica.it/cultura_scienze/mostragraf/sullarete/sullarete.html
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 05:13:44 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: TWL
MIME-Version:
1.0
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7bit
James
William Marshall wrote:
>
> I've got a stupid question and a stupid analogy.
> The question: The journey is to the Western Lands where, in my
>
understanding, one attains immortality.
Why would one want to be immortal,
>
especially in the setting Burroughs creates?
i'll
have to think about that one.
> The analogy: TWL seems like a really graphic (<-two senses of the word)
>
video game: secrets, obstacles and an
objective. There seems to be two
>
ways to get to the Western Lands:
through violence or peace.
> A question arising from the analogy... wait.
Nevermind. I think I just
>
figured it out.
It
seems here -- and i'm going from long term memory -- that you've got
a
writer born at the gateway to the frontier, moved to Los Alamos,
travels
the world and comes full circle to the environs of Quantrill's
raids. Underneath all of this is a theme as
american as apple pie the
old
love of the frontier. The values of the
frontier. The space and
ability
for movement and travel. These are all
there in the Western
Lands.
> By the way, I'm really enjoying the
polytheistic versus monotheistic
>
thread in the novel. It's comical and
incredibly sensible at the same time.
I'd
promised to start some thinking about these notions - especially the
little
section which makes the spare ass annie cd as One God Universe.
It
begins "consider the impasse of a one God Universe. . ." I have
considered
it. All too long. And far too often i go put on that cd and
listen
to that partiuclar cut again and again and again. Only now and
then
does such consideration lead to hospitalization :)
For now i'll just briefly suggest that
the impasse described assume
that
this One God would have the adventurous motive to want to move
about
and do things rather than just be. I
understand the creation of
Gods
that play out all our greatest human dramas and have loved such
tales
since childhood. But in the event that
there is some form of God
beyond
the Gods - a synthetic transcendence of all of these and all that
will be
imagined in the future, the formation would be reversed. Rather
than
being human creations as in Homer's wonderful development of Greek
characters
that we know as God's, it would seem that in the event such a
God
exists, it would exist prior to any human action and after.
This is exactly my problem with the
entire track of One God
Universe
i guess. I appears to me that the
impasses suggested are all
assuming
that whatever this One God is, that it is bound by human
conceptions
of phsyical laws concerning space/time.
Sometimes i can
imagine
myself outside these realms for moments at least. It seems that
the
notion of a One God Universe would definitely be able to escape
these
boundaries.
Incoherencies early in the morning
about Western Lands. To be
expected. No coffee yet. My copy of Western Lands is no longer with
me. I gave it along with nearly all my burroughs
to a dear friend for a
holiday
named Hannakuh last winter. So they are
somewhere in Evergreen
Colorado
or just outside it.
I created strange non-linear reading
schemes in looking at Burroughs
work. I was not at all well back then. It was not exactly random cut
up. There were forms to it. I don't compleatly recall the method i
used. I remember Lynnea was the only one that could
figure out what i
was
doing with all the marks and slashes i would write along and then
suddenly
begin writing things myself - usually unrelated to the text -
usually
about me and directional notions and whatnot that the code had
unleashed. If the chronology is correct, The Ticket
that Exploded led
me to
The Western Lands and the Western Lands led me to Eisenhower's
autobiography
and the codes applied to eisenhower's biography created
such a
longing for being At Ease which corresponded with EZ in
exterminator
(?) and the codes scribbles and notes formed a clear
pathway
out of one or two particularly gross situations. And now i am
here,
having heard a call from within the letters of words within a
chain
of books, back in Salina, Kansas.
I hope
to get back out to Evergreen area in late August and i'll try to
negotiate
back my burroughs collection !!!!
Perhaps than i can make
more
sense. Or I will become more sensible.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 06:56:31 -0400
Reply-To: Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: ???
Comments:
To: Julian Ruck <plagal@WEBTV.NET>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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At
07:48 PM 7/30/97 -0400, you wrote:
>i
have a question...
>i
am stead-fast against drug-use...are there many beats who do not use
>drugs?
>
>
This
reminds me of the character in Animal House sampling his first
marijuana
cigarette: "Will I go schizo," he says.
Are the
WEBtvers really starting to replace the aolers?
Mike
Rice
mrice@centuryinter.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 07:00:19 -0400
Reply-To: Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: ???
Comments:
To: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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At
05:06 PM 7/30/97 -0700, you wrote:
>At
07:48 PM 7/30/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>i
have a question...
>>i
am stead-fast against drug-use...are there many beats who do not use
>>drugs?
>>
>>
>
>Do
you mean did or do?
>
>I
don't think there are many beats now. I
unfortunately think too many here
>or
who id with "the beats" do do dugs today.
>
>I
think one aspect of On the Road and other kerouac and beat writing that
>intrigues
and interests people is the drug use.
If a young person is doing
>drugs
(smoking dope onl even) reading On the Road strikes a chord.
>
>At
the same time I'll bet there are folks who read it who have never used
drugs.
>
>I
once (and have told this story before) reccommended my friend buy Visions
>of
Gerard for his sister's birthday. She
never used drugs and was a serious
>Catholic,
even worked for Mother teresa's group for a while.
>
>And
she loved the book. I don't think she'd
read anything quite like it.
>
>So
drugs don't necessarily have to be part of the interest or the reason for
>liking
"beats" but I think that most definately they play a large role.
>Probably
too large.
>
>I
think drugs are a big waste of time and money and everything else.
>
>
I think
Julian ought to get a job with Howard Stern asking naive questions
at
press conferences, to annoy newsfigures.
Mike
Rice
mrice@centuryinter.net
P.S.
Just kidding though, Julian, I love your stuff.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 07:06:04 -0400
Reply-To: Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: ok ok...
Comments:
To: Julian Ruck <plagal@WEBTV.NET>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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At
08:26 PM 7/30/97 -0400, you wrote:
>alright,
you all know very well what i mean by drugs...
>i
mean mind-altering substances that can have potentialy disasterous
>effects
on your nervous system and/or brain...
>examples...
>pot,
lsd, ecstacy, speed...etc...
>i
just had a question and now people are getting so uptight and
>smart-assy
about it....
>does
the use of the afore-mentioned drugs play as big a role in the life
>of
a beat as it is generally thought...
>
>-julian
>
>
julian,
I'm on
your side. Fuck these critics.
Mike
Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 07:06:07 -0400
Reply-To: Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: ok ok...
Comments:
To: Michael Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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At
09:22 PM 7/30/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Timothy
K. Gallaher said, "Funny how peole get into their defensive closed
>mind
set mode when something close to their hearts is mildly criticized.
>
>"Close
minded wimps."
>
>It
always has to get ugly around here. Why? Why do I get the worst kneejerk
>politically
correct types after me whenever i open my mouth on this list?=
=20
>
>
>>
>any chemical can have potentialy disasterous effects on your nervous=
system
>>
>and/or brain, so you would have to include a lot more than just those=
you
>>
>list.
>>=20
>>
Like what?
>>=20
>>
If there are so many, name them.
>
>sorry
you had a bad trip once, but here's your fucking list. infinitely
>shorter
than it could be -- though i believe ginsberg burroughs and hunter
>thompson
would all be equally impressed by my drug reference library -- but
>i
don't have time for this shit tonight.
>
>i'm
not going to list the ones which only have adverse effects in rare
>instances
(of which lsd and marijuana are included), so these are all big
>players
in that department:
>
>serzone
>effexor
>disepramine=20
>dextromethorphan
>dexfenfluramine
>fen-phen
>melatonin
>nutmeg
>ibogaine
>guaran=E1=20
>serotonin
>bufotenine
>amanita
muscaria
>aspartame
>prozac
>nicotine
(one drop will kill you)
>codeine
>salvia
divinorum
>caffeine
(yes always affects brain, and _can_ induce psychomotor agitation,
diuresis
and cardiac arrhythmia)
>
>
This
"drug" thread is the best one I've seen since
I've
been on this list.
Mike
Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 07:09:37 -0400
Reply-To: Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: definition of beat
Comments:
To: Ddrooy@aol.com
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
11:04 PM 7/30/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In
a message dated 97-07-30 22:29:57 EDT, the very racy race writes:
>
><<
> i
think the definition of beat is being steadfastly against being
>
steadfastly against anything or nothing.
... or something else.
>
> >>
>
>I
think the definition of "Beat" is, "A person who doesn't sit
around
>wondering
what the definition of 'Beat' is."
>
>diane
>
>
I think
its high time we had a definition of "Beat!"
Mike
Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 07:17:34 -0400
Reply-To: Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: western lands
Comments:
To: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
11:46 PM 7/30/97 -0500, you wrote:
>ah,
where is wsb headed. a clue to me is that title. western lands,
>sounds
inviting. The book dedicated to b gyson
one of wsbs most beloved
>and
admired people. i find it one of his most interesting books. of the
>trilogy
i think it is strong in his sense of space.
thelanguage is the
>more structured yet not missing the wild flowing
nature he often
>surprises
you with.
> I think this is a book written in kansas.
the first couple of pages
>show
a writer, starting to free himself of a long and terrible block.
>i
feel a reborn movement in the book, through the animals and interest .
>it
is characters that feel again.
>
>p
>
>
I think
Burroughs should stop dressing like one of
the
early Blues Brothers or Men in Black.
He needs
to
brighten it up a little and can the sunglasses.
While
he is at it, he ought to drop heroin.
Just
cause
he has reached 80, and been hooked for fifty
years,
doesn't mean he'll be able to manage the next
twenty
that way.
Mike
Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 07:35:49 -0400
Reply-To: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: the lord of the flies syndrome rears its
ugly head again.
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.LNX.3.95.970730205221.1747I-100000@devel.nacs.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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i agree
with michael here. it is unbelievable how fast people get to the
slinging
insult playground battle modality. i thought that most of the
answers
were light, funny, and not at all mean.
the attack on the
person/persons
always throws me.
>"Close
minded wimps."
well if
we are closeminded wimps, what are you doing here with us? we get
playful,
and people then go for the jugular and get mean and down right
nasty
in response. i hate to say it, but if we are so difficult or mean in
yr
opinion, sporting a bit with the idea of no drugs = no beats concept,
then
whoever it was who began this as "being totally against all drugs"
should
look for a young republican literature list (or is THAT an oxymoron?)
mc
feeling
a bit grumbly meself this morning..
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 08:18:20 +0000
Reply-To: randyr@southeast.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is
<randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>
From: randy royal
<randyr@SOUTHEAST.NET>
Subject: Re: if you were a character from a Beat
book....
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-type:
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7BIT
>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 00:30:48
-0400
>
Reply-to: "Hipster Beat
Poet." <jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>
>
From: "Hipster Beat Poet." <jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>
>
Subject: if you were a character
from a Beat book....
>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
here's a thinking question:
> if you could be any character from
any fictional story by the
>
beats (yes i know kerouac and burroughs base their writings on real
>
events) which character would you be? Personally i'd like to be Sal
>
Paradise or Dean because they seem to have lots of fun and adventures.
> jason
>
>
i geuss
i would be that guy in the dharma bums who called kerouac a
drunk
and didn't recongnize him as a poet (can't remember his name)
cya~randy
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 07:24:37 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: if you were a character from a Beat
book....
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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randy
royal wrote:
>
>
> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997
00:30:48 -0400
>
> Reply-to: "Hipster Beat
Poet." <jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>
>
> From: "Hipster Beat
Poet." <jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>
>
> Subject: if you were a
character from a Beat book....
>
> To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>
> here's a thinking question:
>
> if you could be any
character from any fictional story by the
>
> beats (yes i know kerouac and burroughs base their writings on real
>
> events) which character would you be? Personally i'd like to be Sal
>
> Paradise or Dean because they seem to have lots of fun and adventures.
>
> jason
>
>
>
>
> i
geuss i would be that guy in the dharma bums who called kerouac a
>
drunk and didn't recongnize him as a poet (can't remember his name)
>
cya~randy
Doctor
Sax of course.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:09:06 -0400
Reply-To: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: if you were a character from a Beat
book....
In-Reply-To: <33E08405.1D5B@midusa.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>randy
royal wrote:
>>
> here's a thinking question:
>>
> if you could be any
character from any fictional story by the
>>
> beats (yes i know kerouac and burroughs base their writings on real
>>
> events) which character would you be? Personally i'd like to be Sal
>>
> Paradise or Dean because they seem to have lots of fun and adventures.
>>
dave of
kansas wrote:
>>Doctor
Sax of course.
>
>__________
dave,
will you have my (virtual) babies?
of
course dr sax!
mc
off to
mt washington and really cool junkyard with DC of the list today.
and
yes, i just slapped my own wrist for chatting in public in front of
gawd
and all.
have a
great day, everybody! it's been sunny 4 days in a week in montpelier!
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:13:29 -0400
Reply-To: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: definition of beat
Reply
to message from Ddrooy@AOL.COM of Wed, 30 Jul
>
>In
a message dated 97-07-30 22:29:57 EDT, the very racy race writes:
>
><<
> i
think the definition of beat is being steadfastly against being
>
steadfastly against anything or nothing.
... or something else.
>
> >>
>
>I
think the definition of "Beat" is, "A person who doesn't sit
around
>wondering
what the definition of 'Beat' is."
>
>diane
>
>
but
didn't kerouac himself sit around writing articles trying to explain the
definition
of "beat" for those who just didn't get it?
Diane.
(H)
--
Life is
weird. Remember to brush your teeth.
--Heidi
A. Emhoff
ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
Diane M. Homza
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:17:25 -0400
Reply-To: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Naked Lunch....
sorry
to take up list time, but Brian (?), I in return lost _your_ e-mail,
but
yeah, I'm the one trudging through NL....could you send me your address
again
so I can reply to what I remeber of your message...
Is
computer bumbling a beat charateristic?
Diane.
(H)
ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
--
Life is
weird. Remember to brush your teeth.
--Heidi
A. Emhoff
ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
Diane M. Homza
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:32:13 -0400
Reply-To: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: drugs & the beat....
can't
remember who originally started the thread...but she (I believe it was
a she)
made the comment about how she was steadfast against drug use, &
asked
how integral was the use of drugs for he beat experience, & then the mud
clogged
up my computer screen & I had trouble making the rest out....
well,
here's my take...
I could
say that I'm also stead-fast against drug use, but that would be a
lie,
because I drink. I don't like the use
of drugs (as in substances
defined
by the government to be illegal...um, as of this point in time).
Some
people tell me that if pot were legal I'd think it was okay...but i
don't
necessarily agree. I think I look at
the effect the drug can have on
your
body. I know that I can control how the
alcohol affects me; I don't
know
how to control other substances that are smoked or snorted or poked in
through
your vein or whatever. But I don't
drink alcohol to have an
affect
on me (then why drink? I don't
know....); but very rarely do I try
to get
totally plastered. Because I kind of
like feeling in control of
myself
& don't want to lose that sense. I
think Carolyn Cassady said it
best in
Off the Road, something about how she eventually stopped smoking
marijuana
because she was afraid of getting in trouble with the law & also
she
resented an outside force controlling her mind.
Now I
conjecture that as far as the Beats were concerned, their use of
drugs
was to expand their creativity, their sense of the world, the way
they
viewed life, because they felt the straight & narrow wasn't broad
enough
for them to experience the IT in full.
I don't think it's
pertinent
to be/to have been a drug user to be beat, though. Often I've
felt
beat (as I define beat, that is) even though I don't use drugs (as
stated
in line, oh, whatever the hell it was).
I don't think I need to
use
drugs to alter my perspective; I think I can achieve that wide range of
perception
without altering my mind. As for
alcohol, well, that jut sputs
me to
sleep--so much for broadening my experiences!
Okay, I
think that's all I've got to ramble about.
If you've stuck with
the
post this far, more power to you. I
need to shower now (a very un-beat
activity,
according to the squares).
Diane.
(H)
--
Life is
weird. Remember to brush your teeth.
--Heidi
A. Emhoff
ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
Diane M. Homza
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:31:56 -0400
Reply-To: Julian Ruck <plagal@WEBTV.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck <plagal@WEBTV.NET>
Subject: alright, here it is...
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listen, my apologies to anyone i may have
offended...
i have tried drugs in my life, i am not DARE
brainwashed, i just don't
like
them...i do drink, socially, and not as a means of getting
drunk....
my question was sincere, and people took it
way too far, so now i am in
the
position that i have to believe, because few people gave me a
straight
answer, that the ones who got defensive do...
and the
others either have and don't now, or never have...
the thread can end here, my question was
answered.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:27:05 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: if you were a character from a Beat
book....
Sal
Paradise
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
RACE ---
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 1997 5:24 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: if you were a character from a
Beat book....
randy
royal wrote:
>
>
> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997
00:30:48 -0400
>
> Reply-to: "Hipster Beat Poet."
<jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>
>
> From: "Hipster Beat
Poet." <jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>
>
> Subject: if you were a
character from a Beat book....
>
> To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>
> here's a thinking question:
>
> if you could be any
character from any fictional story by the
>
> beats (yes i know kerouac and burroughs base their writings on real
>
> events) which character would you be? Personally i'd like to be Sal
>
> Paradise or Dean because they seem to have lots of fun and adventures.
>
> jason
>
>
>
>
> i
geuss i would be that guy in the dharma bums who called kerouac a
>
drunk and didn't recongnize him as a poet (can't remember his name)
>
cya~randy
Doctor
Sax of course.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:30:04 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: if you were a character from a Beat
book....
Marie,
was a
dialogue. you have a perfect right to
respond as you feel. if we get
so fucking
serious, "scholarly" and full of ourselves that we can't share a
little
humor on occasion, this list has failed in more ways than one.
ciao,
sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Marie Countryman
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 1997 6:09 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: if you were a character from a
Beat book....
>randy
royal wrote:
>>
> here's a thinking question:
>>
> if you could be any
character from any fictional story by the
>>
> beats (yes i know kerouac and burroughs base their writings on real
>>
> events) which character would you be? Personally i'd like to be Sal
>>
> Paradise or Dean because they seem to have lots of fun and adventures.
>>
dave of
kansas wrote:
>>Doctor
Sax of course.
>
>__________
dave,
will you have my (virtual) babies?
of
course dr sax!
mc
off to
mt washington and really cool junkyard with DC of the list today.
and
yes, i just slapped my own wrist for chatting in public in front of
gawd
and all.
have a
great day, everybody! it's been sunny 4 days in a week in montpelier!
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 08:35:47 -0400
Reply-To: MATT HANNAN <MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MATT HANNAN
<MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>
Subject: Re: if you were a character from a Beat
book....
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<snip>
here's
a thinking question:
if you could be any character from any
fictional story by the
beats (yes i know kerouac and burroughs
base their writings on real
events) which character would you be?
<end snip>
Ummm, too many choices:
The 'bo in the opening chapter of Dharma
Bums
The mouse Kerouac kills in DA
Anyone in the truck flying across
Nebraska in OTR
Kitty Carlisle, Topo Gigio or the mystery
gift behind door #3.
love and lilies,
matt
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:45:59 -0400
Reply-To: Ddrooy@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: definition of beat
In a
message dated 97-07-31 09:15:35 EDT, you write:
<<
but didn't kerouac himself sit around writing
articles trying to explain the
definition of "beat" for those who
just didn't get it?
Diane. (H)
>>
I'm no
scholar (and proud of it, by the way) but everything one needs to know
about
being "Beat," (whatever that is) can be found, tacitly spoken, in the
books,
art and music of the day.
This
reminds me of people who tried to define "hippies" back in the
Sixties,
and
that quest for definition continues today. People would have identified
me as a
hippie (and many still do). But how they or we defined that was
extremely
superficial, compared to the collective consciousness that gave one
a sense
of tribal belonging.
Like
anything, definitions fall short of reality. C.S. Lewis (not a Beat or a
hippie)
rebelled against definitions of God, saying <paraphrasing here> "To
define
God is to put Him in a box. Don't put my God in a box."
A lot
of what we talk about here seems to smack of some need to label,
categorize
and define feelings and people who were ephemeral at best. It's
more a
feeling than a knowing. They was here; now they is gone. They left
something
indefinable behind.
Dig it.
diane
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 21:44:32 -0700
Reply-To: dumo13@EROLS.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Chris Dumond <dumo13@EROLS.COM>
Subject: Drugs and Beats
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Sorry,
but I can't help but jump in...
I'd
have to say that the beat experience was intertwined with substance
use or
abuse. Jack, for one, is almost
CONSTANTLY intoxicated in his
narrations. The specific interactions between Jack and
Neal, or Neal and
Allen
seem almost dependent on bennies or some other form of speed.
Who
would Burroughs be without the opiate experiences? Neal - Pranksters
- LSD
???? Whether it's good or bad, I don't know but the answer to the
original
question is that You'd have to look far and wide to find a beat
that
didn't use drugs. And then, if you
found one... would he/she be
totally
opposed to use as was mentioned -- I really doubt it. Oh, and
this is
for the IDIOT who thinks that heroin is safe.
NEGATIVE
EFFECTS
slowed and
slured speech
slow gait
constricted
pupils, droopy eyelids,
impaired night
vision
dry skin,
itching, skin infections
vomiting (at
first use, and later at high
doses)
constipation
"nodding
off" (at very high doses)
decreased sexual
pleasure, indifference to
sex
sedation
proceeding to coma
respiratory
depression
HIV infection
from injection
can impair
immune system
addiction
reduced appetite
slow, irregular
heart rate
irregular blood
pressure
menstrual
irregularity
death from
overdose
***********************************************************************
Before
you go mouthing off about drugs, people should know the facts.
For
instance, on LSD a person might mutilate themselves, commit suicide
or
other horrible things BUT it is not physically addictive and it has no
toxic
effect on the body. It does however, like most drugs, permanently
alters
the neurological pathways of the brain.
Heroin, on the otherhand
is
toxic to the body, it causes extreme addiction, and let's not forget
that
AIDS stigma with dirty needles. Before
I get flames... it does
happen:
My uncle died of AIDS from shooting up and I know people who use
heroin
and think it's the coolest thing in the world.
They look like
shit
and I can't imagine them living too long. Heroin addiction destroys
the
body. Just because you read something
in a book doesn't give anyone
the
right to be an expert... it certainly doesn't give you the right to
say
it's safe. Do some neurological
research and have a couple of your
friends/relatives
mutate into a walking pile of shit.
Then come talk to
me.
Chris
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:19:34 -0400
Reply-To: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alex Howard <kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: western lands
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.16.19970731061503.08676c3a@mail.wi.centuryinter.net>
MIME-Version:
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On Thu,
31 Jul 1997, Mike Rice wrote:
> I
think Burroughs should stop dressing like one of
>
the early Blues Brothers or Men in Black.
He needs
> to
brighten it up a little and can the sunglasses.
>
While he is at it, he ought to drop heroin.
Just
>
cause he has reached 80, and been hooked for fifty
>
years, doesn't mean he'll be able to manage the next
>
twenty that way.
Not
sure if this is facetious or not, but Burroughs' point in dressing in
the
nondescript grey suit and hat was to be a nobody by looking like
everybody,
by dressing the urbane businessman/accoutant/clerk/etc. he
hoped
to blend in and provide no outward identification of of his
personality
or interest. Nowadays, he prefers jeans
and a button down
shirt,
which accomplishes the same goal. And
he kicked heroin and gave up
drugs
long ago (don't know about alchohol/nicotine/caffeine). He's pretty
health
concious as he is old as dirt and not in the best of shape;
although
any shape for someone over eighty is pretty good. When my
professor
met him a couple of years ago, he was described to me as "a
nice,
old grandfatherly type".
------------------
Alex
Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@acs.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www.acs.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:43:15 +0000
Reply-To: Brian M Kirchhoff
<howl420@JUNO.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Brian M Kirchhoff
<howl420@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: ???
Comments:
To: plagal@WEBTV.NET
On Wed,
30 Jul 1997 19:48:30 -0400 Julian Ruck <plagal@WEBTV.NET> writes:
>i
have a question...
>i
am stead-fast against drug-use...are there many beats who do not use
>drugs?
no.
Brian
M. Kirchhoff
howl
420@juno.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"I am the perfect
man...the Buddha of this world!"
-Kerouac, Brooklyn Bridge
Blues, Chorus 4
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 08:59:01 -0700
Reply-To: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: ???
Mime-Version:
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At
06:56 AM 7/31/97 -0400, you wrote:
>At
07:48 PM 7/30/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>i
have a question...
>>i
am stead-fast against drug-use...are there many beats who do not use
>>drugs?
>>
>>
>
>This
reminds me of the character in Animal House sampling his first
>marijuana
cigarette: "Will I go schizo," he says.
>
>Are
the WEBtvers really starting to replace the aolers?
>
>Mike
Rice
Well it
obviously happened to you so why wouldn't one think that.
(sound
of lame drum roll)
>mrice@centuryinter.net
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:00:27 -0700
Reply-To: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: ???
Mime-Version:
1.0
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At
07:00 AM 7/31/97 -0400, you wrote:
>At
05:06 PM 7/30/97 -0700, you wrote:
>>At
07:48 PM 7/30/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>>i
have a question...
>>>i
am stead-fast against drug-use...are there many beats who do not use
>>>drugs?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Do
you mean did or do?
>>
>>I
don't think there are many beats now. I
unfortunately think too many here
>>or
who id with "the beats" do do dugs today.
>>
>>I
think one aspect of On the Road and other kerouac and beat writing that
>>intrigues
and interests people is the drug use.
If a young person is doing
>>drugs
(smoking dope onl even) reading On the Road strikes a chord.
>>
>>At
the same time I'll bet there are folks who read it who have never used
>drugs.
>>
>>I
once (and have told this story before) reccommended my friend buy Visions
>>of
Gerard for his sister's birthday. She
never used drugs and was a serious
>>Catholic,
even worked for Mother teresa's group for a while.
>>
>>And
she loved the book. I don't think she'd
read anything quite like it.
>>
>>So
drugs don't necessarily have to be part of the interest or the reason for
>>liking
"beats" but I think that most definately they play a large role.
>>Probably
too large.
>>
>>I
think drugs are a big waste of time and money and everything else.
>>
>>
>
>I
think Julian ought to get a job with Howard Stern asking naive questions
>at
press conferences, to annoy newsfigures.
>
>Mike
Rice
Mike
why would you want him to take your job????
That
and teaching the TV news people how to be vapid are all you got.
(Lim
dam rull)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:01:13 -0700
Reply-To: James William Marshall
<dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall
<dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: Re: If you were a character...
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If I
could choose any character it'd be ":". I just like the colon.
Use
mine
everyday.
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:01:40 -0400
Reply-To: SSASN@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Arthur Nusbaum <SSASN@AOL.COM>
Subject: For DC:
Dharma/ Desolation/ Dualities
Comments:
cc: DAVIDSROSEN@compuserve.com
Diane:
In my
presumptuous opinion, you have undertaken the most advisable curriculum
by
reading THE DHARMA BUMS and DESOLATION ANGELS in that order. After
reading
your Joy & Despair Dualities post in response to my tormented take on
the mat
over the difficult, elusive issues that VOC generated, so to speak, I
was
actually going to suggest that you follow TDB with DA, but you Beat me to
it in
your Kerouac/Dharma Bums/ Sadness post from 7/29. I happen to have
read
TDB fairly recently, in January of this year, mostly on a balcony
overlooking
the ocean in Jamaica. There is a more
hopeful and conventionally
"coherent"
nature to TDB than to VOC, partly due to the history of its
creation
as you may be aware. TDB was not one of
the works written between
THE
TOWN AND THE CITY and the publication of ON THE ROAD, the time in his
life
when over 1/2 dozen of his greatest items languished in his rucksack, a
period
of wandering of appropriately biblical 7-year length. After the
overnight
sensation of OTR, JK was solicited to follow it up and sustain the
momentum,
and TDB was in response to this. I
recall reading somewhat cynical
comments
from this period in which JK basically states that he turned out a
product
that his publishers wanted and told them and his sudden flock of
readers
what they wanted to hear.
Notwithstanding this, I don't think it's
an
inauthentic work, regardless of the circumstances, when an artist like JK
undertakes
something, the results, especially the effect on a reader, are
never
circumscribed by the fleeting situation of time and place in which it
occurs. To call TDB a "sellout" because he
may have pandered to the
mercenary
urgings of those who wanted to keep him commercially hot is as
shallow
as that very attitude. Anyway, it's
important to recall these
circumstances
as AN element, part of what gives the book its character.
Publishers & producers, etc. always want
"happy endings" unless the trend is
otherwise,
so can JK's (for him) hopeful tone here be trusted? I think so,
there's
no doubt that throughout his One Long Work, even the late works done
while committing suicide in slow motion, he is
always groping for a life
preserver
of meaning and understanding, there is an earnest search for
redemption,
personal and universal, that is part of the magnetism that still
pulls
us in. It may be that at this
particular juncture, the influence of
Gary
Snyder was strong enough to give JK more hope than usual. As mentioned
in some
posts on this List, GS, while certainly a member of the Beat
Generation,
involved in its critical junctures especially of course the San
Francisco
Poetry Rennaissance, was distinguishable from most of the others.
I should note that it's a tricky business I'm
getting involved with here,
ALL the
beats were emphatically individualistid, even use of the term "Beat
Generation"
sometimes leaves me uncomfortable- but within the general
acknowledgement
of individuality there are certain similarities that don't
necessarily
take that away from them. One of these
is the indeterminacy,
sometimes
as with JK reaching the point of franticness in some works, of the
quest
for "IT", even the object of the quest is indeterminate, better not
blink. But with GS, the impression I have reading
TDB and about him in
documentary
works is that he was a lot calmer and more certain of his path of
Ascetic
Natural Buddhism/Buddhist Naturalism than most of the rest were of
theirs. He was the least frantic of the bunch, and I
think this rubbed off
on
them, even the restless JK. He is
following GS into the woods literally
and in
the sincere hope that he can achieve the contentment born of
certainty,
at least of the path being taken, that he percieves GS as
possessing. At the end, as suggested and arranged by GS,
he arrives at
Desolation
Peak and hopes for if not completely expects that in the solitude
of his
lookout post, the significance of his strenuous hikes will click and
he will
find peace within himself and with the world to which he'll return.
Now I
finally come to my main point. It is
not only chronologically proper
that
you should read TDB- one follows the other exactly (though not in order
of
publication). But, more importantly,
and sadly as you must know by now if
you're
far enough into DA, desolation is not just the name of the place, it's
the
condition JK arrives back at despite his experiences with GS, by himself
and
when he dives back into frantic revelries with his fellow angels in
society. It's too easy to say that, as with VOC, the
bottom line is despair
and
death, but the duality is certainly not compromised, it is stronger than
ever
after the courses taken in TDB & DA, read as one uninterrupted, cyclical
journey. The very title itself, DESOLATION ANGELS, is
resonant with
yin/yangesque
duality and transcendent poignancy. I
suppose what I'm getting
at
boils down to this: The
"syndrome" with which you (and I if it's any
consolation)are
"still grappling" is still as difficult as ever by the end of
DA,
being preceded chronologically and otherwise by TDB only heightens the
VOC-like
indeterminacy (at best) that prevails.
Again, this gets us into the
Talmudic
Definition through Contrast concept of recent discussions. I read
DA much
less recently than TDB, and so don't hesitate to alert me if you
think
my conclusions are incomplete or inaccurate, but I think my memory of
DA is
fresh enough to have arrived at these thoughts.
Finally
for now, I'm dying to ask you something.
In your 7/29 post you
wrote:
"The
Beat Generation writers had kicked off my own generation's revolution.
How could I believe in the Void at a time
when life seemed so full? For a
while I
thought I could save Jack Kerouac through loving him. But no one
could.
Years
later, in 1982, my sixteen-year-old son became curious about a small
book
with a black and yellow binding that he noticed on my shelves- Alan
Watts's
Zen Flesh, Zen Bones. I must have
bought it soon after I met Jack,
hoping
to please him by attempting to understand Buddhism. When my son
opened
it, a piece of folded green paper fell out.
It was part of a label
for
Eagle Typewriting Paper. On the back
was a fragment of conversation Jack
had
jotted down in pencil. It reflected his
awareness of our basic
philosophical
conflict:
Somebody
told me
that
W>C> Handy had
just
died- I said
'he was
never even
born'-'oh
you,'
she
said."
Now
then, am I to understand that you actually knew Jack Kerouac yourself?
The heart of the shamelessly excited fan is
pounding fast, I infer that you
are
somewhat older than me, if you had a 16-year-old son in 1982. I'm 38, so
I
missed the boat on JK during his lifetime, I have been lucky enough to
catch
up with most of the other Giants and personally encounter them while
they
were/are still alive. So I'm an
unabashadly awe-struck young fan
looking
up to you here as older & wiser. A
creeping feeling is also
gathering-
should I have already recognized you in the myriad works about the
Beats
that I've digested? You did tell me you
are involved in academia &
writing. TELL ME ABOUT IT, please.
Somber
and Thoughtful if Giddy on the Surface,
Arthur
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:05:17 -0700
Reply-To: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: ok ok...
Mime-Version:
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At
07:06 AM 7/31/97 -0400, you wrote:
At
07:06 AM 7/31/97 -0400, you wrote:
>At
08:26 PM 7/30/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>alright,
you all know very well what i mean by drugs...
>>i
mean mind-altering substances that can have potentialy disasterous
>>effects
on your nervous system and/or brain...
>>examples...
>>pot,
lsd, ecstacy, speed...etc...
>>i
just had a question and now people are getting so uptight and
>>smart-assy
about it....
>>does
the use of the afore-mentioned drugs play as big a role in the life
>>of
a beat as it is generally thought...
>>
>>-julian
>>
>>
>julian,
>
>I'm
on your side. Fuck these critics.
>
>Mike
Rice
>
poot
etre mea tulpa
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:18:57 -0700
Reply-To: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: the lord of the flies syndrome rears
its ugly head again.
Comments:
To: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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At
07:35 AM 7/31/97 -0400, you wrote:
>i
agree with michael here. it is unbelievable how fast people get to the
>slinging
insult playground battle modality. i thought that most of the
>answers
were light, funny, and not at all mean.
the attack on the
>person/persons
always throws me.
>
>>"Close
minded wimps."
>
I said
close minded wimps.
And you
are insulted?
I don't
know why people on a beat l are so sensitive.
This is
not a nasty thing to say.
Here is
why I said it and wrote it spontaneously.
Some
guy writes a question about if any beats don't take drugs (a rather
open
ended and tenuous question but the gist of it is understandable
enough). And he also mentions he is agiants drugs or
something like that.
So in
repsonse he gets not silence but as he put it "smart-assy responses".
It
seems to me that when people go around criticising demeaning and
insulkting
others, being called a close minded wimp is peanuts.
I
simply responded in kind to snotty and snobby attitudes.
And I
think their attitudes were close minded.
I tried to anser his
question. I believe James Stauffer did as well.
I just
see these STONED OUT MORONS (and believe me I never used caps but it
is so
fun to push religious fantaics buttons and watch them run for
cover--to
cover their closed minds with snotty superiorities and sniditities
[look
it up].
(hee
hee hee this is fun)
Look
you big stoners and pseudo head hippy dolts
the
answer is j9dp' and you know that.
Why not
talk about las drogas without being defensive and sensitive.
I liked
the list that one fellow put up as well.
>well
if we are closeminded wimps, what are you doing here with us? we get
>playful,
and people then go for the jugular and get mean and down right
>nasty
in response. i hate to say it, but if we are so difficult or mean in
>yr
opinion, sporting a bit with the idea of no drugs = no beats concept,
>then
whoever it was who began this as "being totally against all drugs"
>should
look for a young republican literature list (or is THAT an oxymoron?)
>mc
Who
owns sport.
Going
for jugular?
You
need to learn anatomy
>feeling
a bit grumbly meself this morning..
>
>
Maybe
me too.
I
reacted to the comments of others.
When
people put others down I have a gut reaction to then put them down.
Take
care all
Vote
for Ford!!!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:47:39 -0700
Reply-To: Tellyman <Tellyman@BIGFOOT.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tellyman <Tellyman@BIGFOOT.COM>
Organization:
nah
Subject: Re: Drugs and Beats
Comments:
To: dumo13@EROLS.COM
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
The
person who said Heroin is one of the safest drugs is correct.
See, if
you were an ex-addict like i am, you would be qualified to
speak
on the deterioration (or lack thereof) of the body from H.
We all
know that everyone that does Heroin is not going to get AIDS.
Your
uncle died from AIDS! This was because he chose to SHOOT UP.
Doesnt
matter what he was shooting, the act of using the needle is
what
got him infected. Heroin does not destroy the body. Its the
abcesses
from shooting up, using dirty needles, which causes them to
live a
less than healthy lifestyle. All because Heroin is ILLEGAL.
I'm
sorry your uncle died, but it wasnt Heroin that killed him,
because
if Heroin were legal, he wouldnt have had to use dirty needles,
and
would still be alive today. Sorry, had to jump in here,but i know
from
what I speak....
M
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:37:51 -0400
Reply-To: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: the lord of the flies syndrome rears
its ugly head again.
Comments:
To: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <199707311618.JAA22501@hsc.usc.edu>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu,
31 Jul 1997, Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:
>
the answer is j9dp' and you know that.
what does
this mean?
>
When people put others down I have a gut reaction to then put them down.
i was
not putting that webtv chap down, or insulting him, and i don't think
the
other were, either -- just making our point of "whats drugs?" because
i
can't
make any distinctions here like that -- raisins? lsd worse than
alcohol?
birdbrain says so, aint it true that marijuana rots yer brain like
it says
on the telly? oxybiotic will make you neurotic.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:45:37 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: if you were a character from a Beat
book....
MIME-Version:
1.0
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text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Marie
Countryman wrote:
>
>
>randy royal wrote:
>
>
>> > here's a thinking question:
>
>> > if you could be
any character from any fictional story by the
>
>> > beats (yes i know kerouac and burroughs base their writings on
real
>
>> > events) which character would you be? Personally i'd like to be
Sal
>
>> > Paradise or Dean because they seem to have lots of fun and
adventures.
>
>>
>
>
dave of kansas wrote:
>
>>Doctor Sax of course.
>
>
>
>__________
>
dave, will you have my (virtual) babies?
> of
course dr sax!
> mc
>
off to mt washington and really cool junkyard with DC of the list today.
>
and yes, i just slapped my own wrist for chatting in public in front of
>
gawd and all.
>
have a great day, everybody! it's been sunny 4 days in a week in montpelier!
> mc
sorry i
don't think i'm interested in virtual labor pains.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:57:28 +0200
Reply-To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: 1960s
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
1960s
i myself
sitting in back of the class
precisely!
daze!
SITTING IN BACK OF THE CLASS
oh, im' not here
bleary-eyed
tiny butterflies
pinball & jazz
rage
thanks anyway!
i look around for
a rosy picture
sitting
in back
of the
classroom.
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:15:02 -0400
Reply-To: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: For DC: Dharma/ Desolation/ Dualities
In-Reply-To:
<970731120138_412469474@emout06.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu,
31 Jul 1997, Arthur Nusbaum wrote:
>
Years later, in 1982, my sixteen-year-old son became curious about a small
>
book with a black and yellow binding that he noticed on my shelves- Alan
>
Watts's Zen Flesh, Zen Bones. I must
have bought it soon after I met Jack,
>
hoping to please him by attempting to understand Buddhism. When my son
>
opened it, a piece of folded green paper fell out. It was part of a label
>
for Eagle Typewriting Paper. On the
back was a fragment of conversation Jack
>
had jotted down in pencil. It reflected
his awareness of our basic
>
philosophical conflict:
>
>
Somebody told me
>
that W>C> Handy had
>
just died- I said
>
'he was never even
>
born'-'oh you,'
>
she said."
Isn't
this from Joyce Johnson's introduction to Desolation Angels?
------------------
Alex
Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@acs.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www.acs.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:19:34 -0700
Reply-To: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: the lord of the flies syndrome rears
its ugly head again.
Comments:
To: Michael Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
12:37 PM 7/31/97 -0400, you wrote:
>On
Thu, 31 Jul 1997, Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:
>
>>
the answer is j9dp' and you know that.
>
>what
does this mean?
>
>
See
what drugs do to you--you can't even read English anymore.
>
>>
When people put others down I have a gut reaction to then put them down.
>
>i
was not putting that webtv chap down, or insulting him, and i don't think
>the
other were, either -- just making our point of "whats drugs?" because
i
>can't
make any distinctions here like that -- raisins? lsd worse than
>alcohol?
birdbrain says so, aint it true that marijuana rots yer brain like
>it
says on the telly? oxybiotic will make you neurotic.
>
>
>
Oh
man!!!
Whay
are so much more civil and down to earth and unemotional--you're
bumming
my fry
I
wanted to be able to insult you more
Anyhow
you've convinced me that raisons and their close cousin the evil
raisonettes
are much much much much much much much much more infinitely more
no
comparison whatsoever dangerous than LSD
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:36:45 -0400
Reply-To: Julian Ruck <plagal@WEBTV.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck <plagal@WEBTV.NET>
Subject: thank you.
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7BIT
MIME-Version:
1.0 (WebTV)
to the
people who supported me during these two days of about 200
responses
calling me a large number of names...
i had
heard somewhere that people get defensive about their habits...i
guess
they were right...
anyway,
my thanks to my supporters...
(all
three of them...)
-julian
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:28:04 +0000
Reply-To: Brian M Kirchhoff
<howl420@JUNO.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Brian M Kirchhoff <howl420@JUNO.COM>
Subject: no, thank you! (with sincerity)
Comments:
To: plagal@WEBTV.NET
On Thu,
31 Jul 1997 13:36:45 -0400 Julian Ruck <plagal@WEBTV.NET> writes:
>to
the people who supported me during these two days of about 200
>responses
calling me a large number of names...
>i
had heard somewhere that people get defensive about their habits...i
>guess
they were right...
>anyway,
my thanks to my supporters...
>(all
three of them...)
>-julian
and to
all of those who stood up in opposition to the anti-drug
stance...i
thank you. we should remember that pot
was legal when kerouac
was a
kid and the world didn't end. people
still smoke alot of pot and i
haven't
seen any apocolyptic scenereos that are any more believable than
"reefer
madness."
this is
not to bash julian...on the contrary...i think this post got alot
of
people's misconceptions cleared up.
(granted, it created some new
misconceptions,
but hey, we can't be right on all the time.)
discourse
is
always good. so what if it gets
ugly. get it out on the table.
i don't
think this is people getting defensive about habits. i smoke
pot....alot. i admit that, but i resent other people
condemning without
understanding. i don't think this happened that much on
this string.
people
just wanted the chance to explain...and to have some fun.
and i'm
sure you have many more than three supporters out there. it's
just
that they saw the onslought of messages you received and said "no
thanks..."
thanks
for your bravery in standing up to the stoned out masses.
peace...
Brian
M. Kirchhoff howl
420@juno.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"I am the perfect
man...the Buddha of this world!"
-Kerouac, Brooklyn Bridge Blues,
Chorus 4 (unpublished)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:45:20 -0400
Reply-To: Richard Wallner
<rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Richard Wallner
<rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Re: Drugs and Beats
Comments:
To: Tellyman <Tellyman@BIGFOOT.COM>
In-Reply-To: <33E0C1AB.3C5B0F91@bigfoot.com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Lets
see...Jack Kerouac died from severe alchohol abuse...Neal Cassady
died,
at least indirectly, from severe amphetamine/speed abuse...Allen
Ginsberg
died of liver cancer, which resulted from his hepatitis, which
he
probably contracted during years of drug abuse.
On the
other hand, the hardest of the hardcore drug abusers among the
group
(unless you want to count Herbert Huncke) was William S.
Burroughs. And he's still alive and going on what, 90?
The
fact is that many many young people who came of age in post world war
II,
during the start of the cold war and nuclear age, used drugs. There
was a
sense of pervading doom associated with the reality of "the bomb"
and the
reality of a society that hadnt yet changed with the times. It
wouldnt
be fair to single out the beats and say that *they* were drug
users
in ways that noone else was.
The
world is better today so drug abuse is less prevalent. I certainly
dont
think there's a prerogative to use drugs if you want to be a beat
writer. The "Beat" ethic is to write about
experience, to write what you
know
and how you've lived...it is not about writing about how others have
lived
or about emulating other people.
Richard
W.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:09:35 -0400
Reply-To: Robert Thomas <rthomas@CLARK.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Robert Thomas
<rthomas@CLARK.NET>
Subject: ???
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
i have
a question...
i am
stead fast against profanity (well, not that much)...are there many
beats
who do not swear?
This
should be a good thread.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:58:12 +0000
Reply-To: Brian M Kirchhoff
<howl420@JUNO.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Brian M Kirchhoff
<howl420@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: ???
Comments:
To: rthomas@CLARK.NET
On Thu,
31 Jul 1997 15:09:35 -0400 Robert Thomas <rthomas@CLARK.NET>
writes:
>i
have a question...
>i
am stead fast against profanity (well, not that much)...are there
>many
>beats
who do not swear?
>
>This
should be a good thread.
>
fuck
no.
(simplicity,
simplicity, simplicity)
Brian
M. Kirchhoff
howl
420@juno.com
"I am the perfect man...the Buddha of
this world!"
-Kerouac, Brooklyn Bridge Blues, Chorus
4 (unpublished)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:24:44 -0700
Reply-To: James William Marshall
<dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall
<dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: Imitate to Irritate
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>i
have a question...
>i
am stead fast against profanity (well, not that much)...are there many
>beats
who do not swear?
>
>This
should be a good thread.
I'm totally against communication. Are there any Beats who didn't / don't
communicate?
I'm totally against the Beats. Are there any Beats who aren't / weren't
Beats?
I thought that Julian's question had some
merit. Beat writing is still
popular
and drug use is just as, if not more, popular.
I know that when I
smoked
my first joint the Beats and the musicians whom I admired weren't a
discouraging
factor, although they weren't the reason that I tried it (all
day
everyday for about four years along with several other harder drugs).
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:36:05 -0400
Reply-To: Ddrooy@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: Spinning on drugs
Here's
a snip of an interesting interview with Tom Robbins:
(Los
Angeles Times) By JOHN BALZAR
============================================
His
choler builds perceptibly every minute he is in town, and now it spreads
to
encompass the dismal condition of American culture.
He says
he has been practicing channeling, and has been connecting with the
ol'
red-baiter Joe McCarthy. "He is quite happy with American society today,
you
know. He regrets only that he died before America began the war on
drugs."
These
are not the days for friendly jabbering about drug use, at least in
public.
But Robbins plunges in, his mind recoiling from the authoritarian
edict
that there is no healthy difference between drugs and drug abuse. And
how
about a misguided government that subsidizes killer-tobacco but outlaws
psychedelics?
"That is chemically insane."
"We're
headed for a showdown between those who love liberty and those who
crave
certainty. The two are incompatible."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:12:22 -0700
Reply-To: James William Marshall
<dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall
<dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: Passage for Consideration
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>From
_The Western Lands_:
"Consider
the One God Universe: OGU. The spirit recoils in horror from
such a
deadly impasse. He is all-powerful and
all-knowing. Because He can
do
everything, He can do nothing, since the act of doing demands opposition.
He
knows everything so there is nothing for him to learn. He can't go
anywhere,
since He is already fucking everywhere, like cowshit in Calcutta.
The OGU is a pre-recorded universe of
which He is the recorder. It's a
flat,
thermodynamic universe, since it has no friction by definition. So He
invents
friction and conflict, pain, fear, sickness, famine, war, old age
and
Death.
His OGU is running down like an old
clock. Takes more and more to make
fewer
and fewer Energy Units of Seks, as we call it in the trade.
The Magical Universe, MU, is a universe
of many gods, often in
conflict. So the paradox of an all-powerful,
all-knowing God who permits
suffering,
evil and death, does not arise."-WSB (from p.113)
Bring
on the comments.
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:25:08 -0400
Reply-To: Ddrooy@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>
Subject: jack sez
...beat,
meaning down and out but full of intense conviction...it meant
characters
of a special spirituality who didn't gang up but were solitary
Bartlebies
staring out the dead wall window of our civilization. The
subterranean
heroes who finally turned from the "freedom" machine of the West
and
were taking drugs, digging bop, having flashes of insight, experiencing
the
"derangement of the senses," talking strange, being poor and glad,
prophesying
a new style for American culture, a new style (we thought)
completely
free from European influences (unlike the Lost Generation), a new
incantation.
The same thing was almost going on in the postwar France of
Sartre
and Genet and what's more we knew about it. But as to the actual
existence
of a Beat Generation, chances are it was really just an idea in our
minds.
Aftermath:
The Philosophy of the Beat Generation
Esquire,
March 1958
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:48:28 -0400
Reply-To: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: ???
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.GSO.3.96.970731150610.26573B-100000@clark.net>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>i
have a question...
>i
am stead fast against profanity (well, not that much)...are there many
>beats
who do not swear?
>
>This
should be a good thread.
________________
what
the fuck did you just ask? sorry, all those burned out synapses from
all
them drugs.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:13:45 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Drug drag
I have
written an autobiographical article on my decades of experiences with
drugs,
if anyone wants to be enlightened or is just interested, one can find
my
article, Reefer Madness in the Age of Apostasy Propaganda and War: The
Military
Industrial Complex Becomes The Law Enforcement/Containment Industry
at
www.buchenroth.com/cplymell.html
Personally
I think the article should be reprinted in the New Yorker, the New
York
Times, the Detroit Free Press, Washington Post, LA Times, Rolling Stone,
Clinton's
briefing papers (if it hasn't already) so that one can have good
anecdotal
information on this preposterous insane precarious mental terrorism
applied
in Amerika today.
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:38:11 -0700
Reply-To: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Drug drag
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
07:13 PM 7/31/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I
have written an autobiographical article on my decades of experiences with
>drugs,
if anyone wants to be enlightened or is just interested, one can find
>my
article, Reefer Madness in the Age of Apostasy Propaganda and War: The
>Military
Industrial Complex Becomes The Law Enforcement/Containment Industry
>at
www.buchenroth.com/cplymell.html
>
>Personally
I think the article should be reprinted in the New Yorker, the New
>York
Times, the Detroit Free Press, Washington Post, LA Times, Rolling Stone,
>Clinton's
briefing papers (if it hasn't already) so that one can have good
>anecdotal
information on this preposterous insane precarious mental terrorism
>applied
in Amerika today.
>Charles
Plymell
>
>
And on
a big giant roll of toilet paper.
Good
luck to all my compatriots at the beat L
Amerika
is spelled with a w not a K btw
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:11:42 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Drug drag. Get it straight, just
once
"Drugs"
is a word that clearly has lost its semantic value. The connotations
that
have overridden its simple denotative (dictionary) meaning have been
muddled
by emotive, moral, and many times, inaccurate associations. This
muddle
is given a buzz by police, authority, etc. in popular culture and T.V.
Actually,
the word means nothing because its value is obscured.
Most of
the talk about "drugs" turns emotional, and (oddly) moral. These are
not the
voices of reason. The categories of the word are too many and the
definition
can never be concretized to have a comtemporary semantic value.
The
meaning of the word isn't changing coherently.
As for
example the word, "broadcast" was entered in older dictionaries with
its
first meaning to spread or plant seeds (I'm guessing). After the fellows
in N.Y.
& N.J. tinkered with their transmitters (not that long ago) and gave
birth
to radio the metaphor, "broadcasting" changed in its first entry
meaning.
To
speak of drugs now in professional language would need one or several
adjectives
to make the noun concrete. This dilution of the word was the
problem
with the first frazzled thread of this list discussion. A more
professional
language was needed to introduce a widely popular meaningless
word.
As to
those who have had bad problems "with drugs," I will say drugs are
nothing
but chemical compositions, much like you. The "problem" or problems
that
seem to involve a chemical agent, then do not rest with the chemical,
but
rather, the person. "When the archer misses the bull's eye, she turns and
looks for
the problem in herself" to paraphrase Confucius.
As to
Burroughs' dress. He is always appropriate. Probably one of the better
dressed
gentlemen of the century. As to his knowledge of "drugs," he is
accurate,
broad, and has a wealth of anecdotal and empirical evidence to back
him up.
When we
don't listen to knowledgeable people about an age-old topic, still
causing
a problem at this late millenium, we resort to ignorance, fear,
misinformation,
disinformation (propoganda). We don't
have to look far to
find
other thinkers and writers and public
figures in agreement on what to
do
about the problem. William F. Buckley, Gore Vidal, Mayor Smokes
(Baltimore)
and according to an NBC poll a while
back...80 percent of the
country.
So anyone with irrational, moral, fears about the "problem", should
crawl
out of the cave. No...I'm sure cave men were smarter. The agendas of
persons,
who in this age of information, retain these irrational notions are
either
ignorant, or very smart and powerful and have their own agenda. Please
spare
me personal accounts of a person problem.
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:24:09 -0400
Reply-To: Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Michael Jeter
Comments:
To: Jim Woodside <woodside@maestro.mitre.org>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
06:07 PM 7/31/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>>
Jeter burst into tears when he won an emmy.
It caught me so
>>
by surprise that I broke into tears myself.
So much for the cool
>>
medium. Its only cool if the people on
it, remain cool. Which,
>>
thank god, with the boredom of it all, they generally do.
>>
>>
Mike Rice
>
>Mike,
>
>I've
been reading this thread, and I can't for the life of me figure out
>who
Michael Jeter is? What did he win an
emmy for? What roles has he
>played
on TV/Movies? Thanks.
>
>Jim
>
>
It was
a Tony. And it was for Grand Hotel, the
broadway musical. I
misspoke
when I said it was an emmy. The week
following the tony
awards,
Peter Jennings made jeter the person of the week. I am sure
he was
as moved by jeter's outburst as I was.
In my opinion, Jeter,
who had
a role in the film Hair, and is probably queer, is a star because
he
cried on the Tonys. I have never
forgotten him because he moved myself,
Peter
Jennings and God knows who else.
Mike
Rice
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:50:37 -0700
Reply-To: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Drug drag. Get it straight, just
once
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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At
08:11 PM 7/31/97 -0400, you wrote:
...I'm
sure cave men were smarter. The agendas of
>persons,
who in this age of information, retain these irrational notions are
>either
ignorant, or very smart and powerful and have their own agenda.
And
drugs never ever make anyone paranoid do they.
>Charles
Plymell
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:22:22 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: For DC: Dharma/ Desolation/ Dualities
Comments:
To: SSASN@AOL.COM
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
>
Arthur Nusbaum wrote:
>
Now then, am I to understand that you actually knew Jack Kerouac
>
yourself?
No, I'm
sorry to say. Perhaps I had some
misplaced quotation marks; the
passage
you referred to was written by Joyce Johnson in the introduction
to
Desolation Angels. I am 43, also too
young to have known Jack Kerouac
personally. I enjoyed your thoughts about Dharma Bums
and Desolation
Angels
and will have some things to post about DA soon.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 22:51:58 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: western lands/ no smoking
Comments:
To: kh14586@acs.appstate.edu
In a
message dated 97-07-31 21:06:18 EDT, you write:
<<
nicotine >>
He
kicked the Players cigarettes. I tried to bum one off him.
cp
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 22:59:19 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Drugs and Beats
Comments:
To: rwallner@capaccess.org
In a
message dated 97-07-31 21:13:45 EDT, you write:
<<
.Allen
Ginsberg died of liver cancer, which resulted
from his hepatitis, which
he probably contracted during years of drug
abuse. >>
i
wouldn't classify Allen as a drug abuser. He was alwys health concious.
Wrote
me a 3pg letter prescribing a healthy deit.
Aslo, I
don't know is statistics would bear out you claim as "less
prevailant"
There has been a shift in demogrphics and usage, but even then,
they
can't even get the population census
accurate. How would they begin to
provide
counts of usage? Besides, the people with the clipboards are probably
stoned.
C.
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 23:00:47 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Drug drag. Get it straight, just
once
Comments:
To: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@hsc.usc.edu>
In a
message dated 97-07-31 21:52:39 EDT, you write:
<<
And drugs never ever make anyone paranoid do
they. >>
Depends
on who is after ya.
C
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 23:32:20 -0400
Reply-To: SSASN@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Arthur Nusbaum <SSASN@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: For DC: Dharma/ Desolation/ Dualities....Duh!
Diane:
I'm
very sorry and embarrassed. I must read
more carefully. My edition of
DA
doesn't have the Joyce Johnson introduction, and I obviously didn't see
where
the quote ended and you resumed. I've
received several other posts
correcting
me on this matter today, (though nothing compared with the
avalanche
of controversy in reaction to Julian Ruck's perfectly reasonable
inquiry
today) and a few who aren't sure and will be disappointed that I
mistook
you for JJ! Disregard that whole gushy
last part, and I hope the
rest
contributes to the ongoing dialogue, I still feel blurred myself by the
very
dualities we are dissecting, I just didn't whine as much about it this
time.
Giddy
no more,
Arthur
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:18:24 -0500
Reply-To: jefflaura
<imcold@EAGLE.PTIALASKA.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jefflaura
<imcold@EAGLE.PTIALASKA.NET>
Subject: the drug question
Mime-Version:
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Content-Type:
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How
much would Jack and his generation have had to write about
without,
"Tea", Thunder Bird, ect. ect. Good or bad or both the importance
of
substance use and or abuse was the push that got the rock rolling.
Jeff
Hickok
>From
the Northwest corner of Hell ie
...Kotzebue, Alaska