=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 1 Aug 1997 00:29:14 -0400

Reply-To:     "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Re: For DC:  Dharma/ Desolation/ Dualities

Comments: To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Diane Carter wrote:

>

> > Arthur Nusbaum wrote:

> > Now then, am I to understand that you actually knew Jack Kerouac

> > yourself?

>

> No, I'm sorry to say.  Perhaps I had some misplaced quotation marks;

> the

> passage you referred to was written by Joyce Johnson in the

> introduction

> to Desolation Angels.  I am 43, also too young to have known Jack

> Kerouac

> personally.  I enjoyed your thoughts about Dharma Bums and Desolation

> Angels and will have some things to post about DA soon.

> DC

 

DC:

 

You would have been 16 when Jack died, so you could have known him, even

if he would have gotten arrested for knowing you too well. ;-)

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 1 Aug 1997 00:52:38 -0400

Reply-To:     Alex Howard <kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Alex Howard <kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Michael Jeter

In-Reply-To:  <1.5.4.16.19970731162131.271f2aa4@mail.wi.centuryinter.net>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

> >I've been reading this thread, and I can't for the life of me figure out

> >who Michael Jeter is?  What did he win an emmy for?  What roles has he

> >played on TV/Movies?  Thanks.

 

Also Burt Reynolds' sidekick on CBS's Evening Shade.

 

------------------

Alex Howard  (704)264-8259                    Appalachian State University

kh14586@acs.appstate.edu                      P.O. Box 12149

http://www.acs.appstate.edu/~kh14586          Boone, NC  28608

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 1 Aug 1997 00:23:01 -0500

Reply-To:     RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: the drug question

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

jefflaura wrote:

>

> How much would Jack and his generation have had to write about

> without, "Tea", Thunder Bird, ect. ect. Good or bad or both the importance

> of substance use and or abuse was the push that got the rock rolling.

>

> Jeff Hickok

> >From the Northwest corner of Hell   ie ...Kotzebue, Alaska

 

In Hanover New Hampshire this would be that the Rolling Rock got the

rock rolling.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 1 Aug 1997 11:02:01 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Paranioa of cartels

Comments: To: gallaher@hsc.usc.edu

 

In a message dated 97-08-01 01:13:35 EDT, you write:

 

<< And drugs never ever make anyone paranoid do they.

  >>

If one has paraniod tendencies, one might reflect on how big the

pharmacuticals are today. Bigger than the oil companies of yesteryear that

elected and (snuffed?) presidents. The biggest cartels can always control

thought. They just don't want anyone cutting into their market. It's the

Amerikan way, simple as that!

C. Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 1 Aug 1997 08:46:02 EDT

Reply-To:     Joe <100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Joe <100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>

Subject:      Arthur Lee

 

 Are there any links between Arthur Lee (Love) & any of

 the Beat's?

 

 Thanks for your time

 

 

 Joe

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 1 Aug 1997 11:10:46 -0400

Reply-To:     "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Re: the lord of the flies syndrome rears its ugly head again.

Comments: To: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Marie Countryman wrote:

 

> <snip>

> then whoever it was who began this as "being totally against all

> drugs"

> should look for a young republican literature list (or is THAT an

> oxymoron?)

> mc

> feeling a bit grumbly meself this morning..

 

  MC:

 

I would say that Republican sensibility is an oxymoron.  I am not sure

if Republican Literature exists.

 

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 1 Aug 1997 05:50:41 -0700

Reply-To:     runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>

Subject:      Re: Passage for Consideration

In-Reply-To:  <199707312112.OAA16125@freya.van.hookup.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 2:12 PM -0700 7/31/97, James William Marshall wrote:

 

 

> >From _The Western Lands_:

>

> "Consider the One God Universe:  OGU.  The spirit recoils in horror from

> such a deadly impasse.  He is all-powerful and all-knowing.  Because He can

> do everything, He can do nothing, since the act of doing demands opposition.

> He knows everything so there is nothing for him to learn.  He can't go

> anywhere, since He is already fucking everywhere, like cowshit in Calcutta.

>      The OGU is a pre-recorded universe of which He is the recorder.  It's a

> flat, thermodynamic universe, since it has no friction by definition.  So He

> invents friction and conflict, pain, fear, sickness, famine, war, old age

> and Death.

>      His OGU is running down like an old clock.  Takes more and more to make

> fewer and fewer Energy Units of Seks, as we call it in the trade.

>      The Magical Universe, MU, is a universe of many gods, often in

> conflict.  So the paradox of an all-powerful, all-knowing God who permits

> suffering, evil and death, does not arise."-WSB (from p.113)

>

> Bring on the comments.

 

 

the noise on my radio dial

prevents me from astonishing

flat hamburgers instead of round

gin and tonics for fathers and soldiers

hallelujah and mortar shells and fireworks

 

there are men in my barn singing

raising their hands and motioning

clasping their hands and feeling

fucking centered fucking centered

 

 

>

>                                                   James M.

 

Douglas

 

http://www.electriciti.com/babu/

step aside, and let the man go thru

        ---->  let the man go thru

super bon-bon (soul coughing)

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 1 Aug 1997 09:18:07 -0700

Reply-To:     "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Drug drag. Get it straight, just once

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 11:00 PM 7/31/97 -0400, you wrote:

>In a message dated 97-07-31 21:52:39 EDT, you write:

>

><<

> And drugs never ever make anyone paranoid do they. >>

>

>Depends on who is after ya.

>C Plymell

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 1 Aug 1997 09:21:06 -0700

Reply-To:     "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Paranioa of cartels

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 11:02 AM 8/1/97 -0400, you wrote:

>In a message dated 97-08-01 01:13:35 EDT, you write:

>

><< And drugs never ever make anyone paranoid do they.

>  >>

>If one has paraniod tendencies, one might reflect on how big the

>pharmacuticals are today. Bigger than the oil companies of yesteryear that

>elected and (snuffed?) presidents. The biggest cartels can always control

>thought.

 

Well...at least yours

 

They just don't want anyone cutting into their market. It's the

>Amerikan way, simple as that!

>C. Plymell

>

 

Come now don't be so coy.

 

We know your role and the beat-l mission.

 

We can't be fooled.

 

You connect the dots you pick up the pieces

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 1 Aug 1997 09:25:48 -0700

Reply-To:     "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: the drug question

Comments: To: jefflaura <imcold@EAGLE.PTIALASKA.NET>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 07:18 PM 7/31/97 -0500, you wrote:

>How much would Jack and his generation have had to write about

>without, "Tea", Thunder Bird, ect. ect. Good or bad or both the importance

>of substance use and or abuse was the push that got the rock rolling.

>

>Jeff Hickok

>>From the Northwest corner of Hell   ie ...Kotzebue, Alaska

>

>

 

This is a good question.  I've wondered about this.

 

What if kerouac hadn't broken his leg and ended up playing 4 years on the

football team and he never met the people he did.  never started with the

benny etc....

 

What would he have written?

 

You can ask similar questions about ginsy and burroughs.

 

I think each of them would have been successful in whatever realm.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 1 Aug 1997 11:04:29 +0000

Reply-To:     Brian M Kirchhoff <howl420@JUNO.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Brian M Kirchhoff <howl420@JUNO.COM>

Subject:      Re: the drug question

Comments: To: race@MIDUSA.NET

 

On Fri, 1 Aug 1997 00:23:01 -0500 RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET> writes:

>jefflaura wrote:

>>

>> How much would Jack and his generation have had to write about

>> without, "Tea", Thunder Bird, ect. ect. Good or bad or both the

importance

>> of substance use and or abuse was the push that got the rock rolling.

>>

>> Jeff Hickok

>> >From the Northwest corner of Hell   ie ...Kotzebue, Alaska

 

>In Hanover New Hampshire this would be that the Rolling Rock got the

>rock rolling.

>

>david rhaesa

>salina, Kansas

 

Wouldn't it be Latrobe, PA?

Or is it easier to get rocked on Rolling Rock to get the rock rolling in

Hanover?

Just a question.

 

Brian M. Kirchhoff

howl 420@juno.com

 

 "I am the perfect man...the Buddha of this world!"

      -Kerouac, Brooklyn Bridge Blues, Chorus 4 (unpublished)

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 1 Aug 1997 10:40:36 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Drug drag. Get it straight, just once

Comments: To: gallaher@hsc.usc.edu

 

In a message dated 97-08-01 01:13:35 EDT, you write:

 

<< >either ignorant, or very smart and powerful and have their own agenda.

 

 And drugs never ever make anyone paranoid do they >>

 

I think an ojective study of "the problem" would point to at least an

unspoken agenda. Why is there this absurd "war" when those I named: William

F. Buckley, Smoke, Vidal agree with Burroughs and a majority of Americans tha

drugs should be legal and that the war clearly wrongheaded. You have to make

a few rhetorical inferences like. Why is the stock market so high. Good for

business, etc. Why does the "war dope machine" want to keep people in

ignorance"  'why was there a shift to Blacks to cheap dope fill up the

prisons....' On and on. Reading Chomsky's books would help you see the big

picture. I sat with Ginsberg while he clipped files when this country was

pedding dope in Viet Nam, etc. I think these are reasonable inferences, given

the nature of what our govt. has done in the past. It's no stretch. Just a

blast of reality.

C.Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 1 Aug 1997 05:46:28 -0700

Reply-To:     runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>

Subject:      Re: Imitate to Irritate

In-Reply-To:  <199707312024.NAA29695@freya.van.hookup.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 1:24 PM -0700 7/31/97, James William Marshall wrote:

 

 

> >i have a question...

> >i am stead fast against profanity (well, not that much)...are there many

> >beats who do not swear?

> >

> >This should be a good thread.

>

>   I'm totally against communication.  Are there any Beats who didn't / don't

> communicate?

>   I'm totally against the Beats.  Are there any Beats who aren't / weren't

> Beats?

 

How about beats that don't wear all black clothing.  There has to be a few

of those around to pin up to the fall, line up like wanna be faggots and

pepper them with questions about marilyn monroe's shoe size.  ask if their

mothers' loved em, if their lovers have left em enough times, if the tax

man really got what he deserved.  Ask em that and tell em Jose sent ya.

that's what I fuckin want to know.

 

that and what happened to the crate of Taco Bell tacos I had stored in the

fridge.  Man, I had half a pound there and some jerk came and ate a few.

Fuckin beats did it man, the fuckin beats.

 

that's whatIwanna know

that's what I wanna know

 

>                                                           James M.

 

Douglas

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 1 Aug 1997 12:30:41 -0400

Reply-To:     GYENIS@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: definition of beat

 

In a message dated 97-07-31 20:17:47 EDT, mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET (Mike Rice)

writes:

 

<< I think its high time we had a definition of "Beat!" >>

 

Do you mean a definition of "Beat" or "beat"?

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 1 Aug 1997 15:50:13 -0500

Reply-To:     RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Nonsense

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:

>

> At 11:02 AM 8/1/97 -0400, you wrote:

> >In a message dated 97-08-01 01:13:35 EDT, you write:

> >

> ><< And drugs never ever make anyone paranoid do they.

> >  >>

> >If one has paraniod tendencies, one might reflect on how big the

> >pharmacuticals are today. Bigger than the oil companies of yesteryear that

> >elected and (snuffed?) presidents. The biggest cartels can always control

> >thought.

>

> Well...at least yours

>

> They just don't want anyone cutting into their market. It's the

> >Amerikan way, simple as that!

> >C. Plymell

> >

>

> Come now don't be so coy.

>

> We know your role and the beat-l mission.

>

> We can't be fooled.

>

> You connect the dots you pick up the pieces

 

Timothy Tim-Tim:

 

Once again I've read many of your messages on this thread and i have

failed to make any sense from you.

 

I understand that this is obviously a result of the pharmacological

choices of myself and my various physicians over the decades that have

so warped my abilities at comprehension that i cannot fathom the essence

of your synaptic firings.

 

Could you please attempt to translate at least one of your messages into

something that makes some sense for those of us who don't understand

your babbling.

 

I -- at least -- would appreciate it.

 

honestly,

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

 

p.s.  On another thread, i have decided after numerous backchannels that

perhaps Dr. Sax was too predictable.  I now wish to be Moloch.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 1 Aug 1997 17:24:22 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Fools

 

In a message dated 97-08-01 12:20:24 EDT, you write:

 

<< Come now don't be so coy.

 

 We know your role and the beat-l mission.

 

 We can't be fooled.

 

 You connect the dots you pick up the pieces

 

  >>

I don't have any idea what you mean. Don't bother me.

Charles Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 1 Aug 1997 15:10:18 -0700

Reply-To:     "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Nonsense

Comments: To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Missive Re Big Op

Dateline 009^62

 

Agent moc

 

Must be carefull

 

Moose and Squirrel may be on to mission as well as certain beat-l members

 

They can not know our role in working for CATREL to keep ig of public at large

 

Stop

 

That is all

 

Agent non

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 1 Aug 1997 15:24:32 -0700

Reply-To:     "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Fools

Comments: To: CVEditions@AOL.COM

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 05:24 PM 8/1/97 -0400, you wrote:

>In a message dated 97-08-01 12:20:24 EDT, you write:

>

><< Come now don't be so coy.

>

> We know your role and the beat-l mission.

>

> We can't be fooled.

>

> You connect the dots you pick up the pieces

>

>  >>

>I don't have any idea what you mean. Don't bother me.

>Charles Plymell

>

>

 

Charles it's called a joke.

 

Humor

 

 

I used to listen to Mabe Russell.

Now though I don't really buy the worldview.

 

I think people are out for themselves and the conspiracy of the cartels is

simply greed.

 

The conspiracy is human nature in all it's manifestations.

 

I remember back in the day it was all "smoke pot--  make it easier for them

to control you".

 

The idea was idea was of course who would buy all this lousy music if the

listeners weren't stoned out of their gourd.

 

So there was conspiracy as it were to get foks to smoke dope to make money

for record companies.

 

There is always something like this.  One side has their conspiracy and the

other side has theirs and sometimes they mix together and form a nice

biological brown.

 

This doesn't mean I don't believe many events took place like smuggling

heroin in body bags or guns for drugs or other things.

 

I just don't buy the wordview.  I see these things as realpolitic.

 

I don't think there is a "they" who want to keep the masses ignorent for

this or that

 

It is a big melange and it all rams into each other and spins off and is

chaotic and ordered and works out.

 

We can connect the dots how we want.  I prefer the most straightforward

manner rather than filtering it through a lens of partisanship or structured

pardigms (ie conspiracy type thinking).

 

Sorry to be somewhat serious I have been "playing around" as someone else

put it and it is fun.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 1 Aug 1997 18:25:50 -0400

Reply-To:     "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Re: Paranioa of cartels

Comments: To: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:

>

> At 11:02 AM 8/1/97 -0400, you wrote:

> >In a message dated 97-08-01 01:13:35 EDT, you write:

> >

> ><< And drugs never ever make anyone paranoid do they.

> >  >>

> >If one has paraniod tendencies, one might reflect on how big the

> >pharmacuticals are today. Bigger than the oil companies of yesteryear

> that

> >elected and (snuffed?) presidents. The biggest cartels can always

> control

> >thought.

>

> Well...at least yours

>

> They just don't want anyone cutting into their market. It's the

> >Amerikan way, simple as that!

> >C. Plymell

> >

>

> Come now don't be so coy.

>

> We know your role and the beat-l mission.

>

> We can't be fooled.

>

> You connect the dots you pick up the pieces

 

What is this supposed to mean?  Is it supposed to be "funny" or to make

sense?  I hope that usc.edu is the University of Southern California,

and not University of South Carolina.

 

"And if I really say it,

The radio won't play it,

And do I have to lay it

Between the lines."

 

Don't go jerking Charles around for no reason.

 

Thank you and peace,

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 1 Aug 1997 18:32:55 -0400

Reply-To:     "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Moloch and David R

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

David:

 

You are here so you are already part of Moloch. Are you going to evolve

from there? :-)

 

I know who you are, go big green machine.  Be back in 2001, eh?  Is that

cryptic enough for you? ;-)

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 1 Aug 1997 15:47:13 -0700

Reply-To:     "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Paranioa of cartels

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 06:25 PM 8/1/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:

>>

>> At 11:02 AM 8/1/97 -0400, you wrote:

>> >In a message dated 97-08-01 01:13:35 EDT, you write:

>> >

>> ><< And drugs never ever make anyone paranoid do they.

>> >  >>

>> >If one has paraniod tendencies, one might reflect on how big the

>> >pharmacuticals are today. Bigger than the oil companies of yesteryear

>> that

>> >elected and (snuffed?) presidents. The biggest cartels can always

>> control

>> >thought.

>>

>> Well...at least yours

>>

>> They just don't want anyone cutting into their market. It's the

>> >Amerikan way, simple as that!

>> >C. Plymell

>> >

>>

>> Come now don't be so coy.

>>

>> We know your role and the beat-l mission.

>>

>> We can't be fooled.

>>

>> You connect the dots you pick up the pieces

>

>What is this supposed to mean?  Is it supposed to be "funny" or to make

>sense?  I hope that usc.edu is the University of Southern California,

>and not University of South Carolina.

>

>"And if I really say it,

>The radio won't play it,

>And do I have to lay it

>Between the lines."

>

>Don't go jerking Charles around for no reason.

>

>Thank you and peace,

>--

>Bentz

>bocelts@scsn.net

>

>http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

>

>

 

Charles is a big boy I would think.

 

And it is supposed to be funny.

 

I don't see how "The Cartel" differs from much from the Church Lady's Satan.

 

Now whoo could it be...??? THE CARTEL L L L L (echo and reverb on the voice)

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 1 Aug 1997 19:35:11 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Fools

Comments: To: gallaher@hsc.usc.edu

 

In a message dated 97-08-01 18:24:42 EDT, you write:

 

<< Sorry to be somewhat serious I have been "playing around" as someone else

 put it and it is fun.

  >>

I'll meet you at high noon; Maybe we can IRON this out.

C. Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 1 Aug 1997 18:12:17 -0700

Reply-To:     James William Marshall <dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James William Marshall <dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>

Subject:      Re: Fools (with tools)

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

><< Sorry to be somewhat serious I have been "playing around" as someone else

> put it and it is fun.

>  >>

>I'll meet you at high noon; Maybe we can IRON this out.

>C. Plymell

>

  Now we're talking.  I gotta know where this is going down.  It can be the

alt-Beat party.  Charles, if you can, invite Burroughs, he can be your

second.  I doubt that you'll need one but it'd be cool to have him around.

If he gets bored, he can shoot me, I wouldn't mind.

 

                                                     James M.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 1 Aug 1997 22:20:49 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Turds

Comments: To: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@hsc.usc.edu>

 

In a message dated 97-08-01 18:26:08 EDT, you write:

 

<< I don't think there is a "they" who want to keep the masses ignorent for

 this or that

 

 It is a big melange and it all rams into each other and spins off and is

 chaotic and ordered and works out.

 

 We can connect the dots how we want.  I prefer the most straightforward

 manner rather than filtering it through a lens of partisanship or structured

 pardigms (ie conspiracy type thinking).

 

 Sorry to be somewhat serious I have been "playing around" as someone else

 put it and it is fun.

  >>

 

I didn't think the vague pronoun reference "they" needed  to be qualified for

a group that seems to share similair experiences and ideologies. One of the

common denominators of the beat experience was that most of them, except

prehaps for Snyder and McClure were very willing to take great risks in their

writing and their Ethos, which helped by providing a seminal comaraderie to

other writers who put themselves on the line. In that respect, it made me

more comfortable knowing that there was someone else around willing to state

their feelings, even if those feelings put them at some risk. I shared that

commonality with the beats.

 

I also feel that given the records of governments, that a healthy distrust of

systems should be taught in civics classes. This was one of the real lessons

in my decades of growth and was also a common demoninator for many. You may

see it at paranoia or "connecting the dots''. I will give you that. "They"

may be any dot. I knew that many years ago when I used to stretch my wig. But

it is interesting that the post-modern view of chaos and randomness breeds

smaller connections, especially of mental paranoias. "They" may be a large

dot, but they ain't random. They are carefully engineered and place their

players well. They are any system, as big or little dots as you want. Your

paradigm operates the same.

 

My personal view of the Drug War was written as a serious piece, mainly for

those who have been brutalized by the system. I sent it to FAMM, and it has

been published in a few small publications. One member of the list writes me

that he makes everyone visiting him read it before they can leave. The

protocol among writers is that the more you have laid your soul bare, the

more you can jump in and state your feelings. The protocol of e-mail, which I

admit I sometimes take for granted is that you write-in an emotion such as

<smile>.

 

Your attempt at "humour" revealed neither of these atttributes. My published

 piece was purposeful and serious, and I still think it should have been

brought to a larger audience. "They" have exerted their control over the

media. too? If you are one who cannot see the language control in the NYTimes

NewMoralitySpeak, then you will  have to hunt for reality in the subculture

press, in case you didn't know that it still exists. When you said "bring

your tiolet paper" in reference to my writing, I didn't laugh. Mainly because

toilet paper cannot wipe away turds like you! HAR HAR

Charles Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 1 Aug 1997 18:55:40 -0700

Reply-To:     "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Fools

Comments: To: CVEditions@AOL.COM

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 07:35 PM 8/1/97 -0400, you wrote:

>In a message dated 97-08-01 18:24:42 EDT, you write:

>

><< Sorry to be somewhat serious I have been "playing around" as someone else

> put it and it is fun.

>  >>

>I'll meet you at high noon; Maybe we can IRON this out.

>C. Plymell

>

>

 

Yessir partner, yee-haw

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 1 Aug 1997 18:57:04 -0700

Reply-To:     "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Fools (with tools)

Comments: To: James William Marshall <dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 06:12 PM 8/1/97 -0700, you wrote:

>><< Sorry to be somewhat serious I have been "playing around" as someone else

>> put it and it is fun.

>>  >>

>>I'll meet you at high noon; Maybe we can IRON this out.

>>C. Plymell

>>

>  Now we're talking.  I gotta know where this is going down.  It can be the

>alt-Beat party.  Charles, if you can, invite Burroughs, he can be your

>second.  I doubt that you'll need one but it'd be cool to have him around.

>If he gets bored, he can shoot me, I wouldn't mind.

>

>                                                     James M.

>

>

 

You need to put a glass or an apple on your head first.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 1 Aug 1997 20:10:40 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Paranioa of cartels

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Charles,

 

You are pointing to something important here.  Just watch how eagerly

the pharmecutical industry acts to snuff any chemical that might offer

fun, help you feel better or help you sleep (if it can't be patented so

it can be sold at huge profits.)  Examples would be l-tryptophan and

right now the heat on GHB, soon to be listed as a scheduled drug in

states near us all because the FDA couldnt make it's case in federal

courts so they have now begun a state by state attempt to sell this

begnign chemical as a date rape drug, coma inducer, etc.

 

James Stauffer

 

James Stauffer

 

> << And drugs never ever make anyone paranoid do they.

>   >>

> If one has paraniod tendencies, one might reflect on how big the

> pharmacuticals are today. . .  The biggest cartels can always control

> thought. They just don't want anyone cutting into their market. It's the

> Amerikan way, simple as that!

> C. Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 1 Aug 1997 22:01:06 -0500

Reply-To:     Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: the drug question

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

You can ask similar questions about ginsy and burroughs.

 I think each of them would have been successful in whatever realm.

 

patricia writes

i can't tell who wrote this but i think that some events such as

someone  such as ag and wsb and jk meeting and forming an union is

formative, perhaps success wouldn't be achieved in whatever realm,

success is often a moment of chance, a moment where an edge of a

headlight is seen and you veer and you live, perhaps not.  success is

not only who your are and application but life is such sheer luck that

the impact of ag and jk on wsb should be explored.  i wish i could have

heard brian gyson speak because quite obviously he has had enormous

inpact on wsb.

p

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 1 Aug 1997 23:59:01 -0400

Reply-To:     "Hipster Beat Poet." <jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Hipster Beat Poet." <jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>

Subject:      neil cassady and video.

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

hey folks,

        i don't know if anyone is aware of the following but this month

an independent film supposedly about Neil Cassady is coming out. I think

the title has something to do with "the second time i tried suicide" but

i'm not too sure. If anyone knows please clear this up.

        has anyone ever written to any of the Beats? Two years ago i

wrote to Burroughs and within two weeks he responded with a hand-written

card displaying one of his art projects on the cover. I don't want to

post his address on here but if anyone is interested please let me know.

                                                        jason

 

"The birds are really spies for the trees."- gregory corso.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 1 Aug 1997 21:23:41 -0700

Reply-To:     "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Fools (with tools)

Comments: To: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@sunflower.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 10:18 PM 8/1/97 -0500, you wrote:

>tim , you seem to just type anything that comes into your head. it is

>boring. try reading some of the literature under discuusion, thinking

>about them and then posting your thoughts, feelings or ideas about them.

>you don't have to be interesting but i would appreciate something other

>than silly stuff.

>p

>

>

 

Here here,

 

I have felt this way so many times.

 

All my silly responses are or were initated in response to silly posts.

 

I don't know why I have done this the past two days or two.  Yesterdayt

morning I didn't go to work and had time to respond to things.

 

I decided to have fun and also to respond in kind.

 

I am always surprised that people who can dish it out cannot take it (and I

am not referring to anyone in particular)

 

I've been on this list for about as long as it began and usually I don't say

much and when I do it is a few paragraphs.

 

So many times I may have written something about the writings or influences

and received no response at all.

 

That happens though.

 

Who am I quoting : "I can goof if I want"

 

[hint concerns literature recently being discussed--and a nice discussion

one of the best I read here in years on the beat-l.  I am referring to the

VoC project and whomever contributed.  It was a good job]

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 1 Aug 1997 21:28:21 -0700

Reply-To:     "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Turds

Comments: To: CVEditions@AOL.COM

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Re this metamorphed subject

 

note my term from earlier post-- "a biological brown" as in it all turns into a

 

Oh yes :)

;)

 :-{)>

 =|:-})>

 

(that last one in Allen Ginsberg in his Uncle Sam hat)

 

It is a photograph

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 2 Aug 1997 00:50:43 -0600

Reply-To:     stand666@bitstream.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         R&R Houff <stand666@BITSTREAM.NET>

Subject:      ED DORN

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

I've just recieved word from Tom Clark and Michael Price, that Ed

Dorn has been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, and this is terminal.

He has perhaps three or four months--with luck six months to live.

Another blow for Naropa and poetics. Michael Price has put together

a special poetry issue with Ed's work and-- perhaps; his last inter-

view in an edition of 500 copies. If anyone from the list would like

to obtain a copy; they can be ordered postage/paid for $6.00 from:

 

New College of California

C/O Michael Price

766 Valencia Street

San Francisco, CA  94110

 

If you decide to order, make checks out to Michael Price.

 

Peace,

Richard Houff

Pariah Press

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 1 Aug 1997 23:22:02 -0700

Reply-To:     "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Fools (with tools)

Comments: To: YageCola@aol.com

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 01:06 AM 8/2/97 -0400, you wrote:

>gallaher...

>

>"goof" - standard kerouac vocabulary as in

>

>"meaningless goof, though somewhat mysterious, as though he was a saint in

>disguise"

>

>just a guess.

>

>I don't know how this works yet, just joined the list...

>

 

Cool.

 

Close yet no cigar.  But very close.  Remember the whole phrase is "I can

goof if I want to"

 

To hear your sentence read by kerouac webitonover to

 

http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~gallaher/k_speaks/kerouacspeaks.html

 

 

ayhuascaloha dude

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 2 Aug 1997 09:19:43 -0400

Reply-To:     "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      drugs and society

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

On the track and field list, there is a great debate about drugs, growth

hormones, and the recent decision to reduce the drug ban from 4 to 2

years.  These drugs are used to enhance the competivness of the athlete.

But it seems to me, that no one really gets upset about them.

 

If we are going to address a problem, the problem cannot be defined in

terms of a drug.  That is because no drug can force itself upon a human

against the human's will.  Thus the argument that drugs and chemicals

should not be illegal has great appeal to me.  Not because I want to be

able to take drugs, but because I do not think we should make people

into criminals because they choose to take a drug.

 

In other words, I agree with the "Republican" platform that the

government should not be interfering in people's lifes.  The problem is,

that that platform is really only applied to business.  That is don't

regulate business, let them pollute, destroy wetlands, log the last of

the virgin timber, pollute the air, etc.  When it comes to personal

freedoms, they want to make you be just like them.  No abortion, no

divorce (ooops, I guess those family values aren't so strong after

all!), and no drugs that we don't take (alcohol, nicotine, caffine,

etc.) or that scare me because I don't take them.

 

If you truly believe that one should not take drugs, then you should be

fighting against government subsidies of tobacco.  Have those of you who

espouse you opposition to drugs written your congressman and begun an

active campaign against tobacco subsidies and ads.  What about beer ads?

Are you doing anything about A/B that pusher?

 

Or have you addressed the primary question, what is the real problem?

If we accept your position that drugs are bad, and admit that marijuana

does not grow, dry, roll and smoke itself into your system, then what is

the REAL problem.  People choosing to use drugs for entertainment,

relief from stress, fun, escape, etc.  But it is a choice.  So the

question is if it is preferable not to use drugs, why do people choose

to do so?  And can anything be done to provide them with a viable

choice.

 

So, are you in the ghetto tonight "helping" the crack heads?  Are you

against drugs?  If so, what are you doing about alcohol and tobacco?

How much do you spend of your tax dollars to subsidize those industries

and the carnage they have caused?

 

Have you been brainwashed by anti-drug ads that steer you away from the

real issues?  Do you think that the CIA did NOT sell crack to finance

the contras?  Have you learned to think for yourself?

 

And to me, if you cannot think for yourself, what do you care whether

beats take drugs, or Jesse Helms is one of the world's biggest pushers

of nicotine?  If you ain't gonna do nothing about Jesse, then don't

bring your "anti-drug" bs around to my neighborhood because you are not

dealing with reality.

 

Sorry to bring this up, but I have been unable to address the thread

earlier and the hypocracy of it all gripes my ass, not to mention the

sadness that crack, tobacco, and alcohol has helped accentuate in our

society.  But I fail to see any emphirical evidence that marijuana has

caused anywhere near the problems that tobacco, caffine, and alcohol

have.

 

Peace,

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 2 Aug 1997 08:46:19 -0500

Reply-To:     RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Ghetto tonight

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

>

>

> So, are you in the ghetto tonight "helping" the crack heads?

 

i've spent nights in quasi-ghettos.  many a scream from bathroom to come

help someone out of a seizure.  many a yell to come be the voice of

reason between folks on bad trips stimulated (but not created) by

various intoxicants.  a yell my son has a gun and is angry at his

girlfriend what can we do.  First be calm.  The neighbors notion of

easter morning is chasing his young daughter and wife around intending

violence.  Let them hide behind us and stand firm.

 

 Leary was correct that in so many ways the world or at least our

society is on a bad trip and that the psychedelic veterans with

experience in smoothing out such things have an ability in the

non-hallucinatory world to help talk folks down from the conflicts.  But

it is no easy task - and for my part i can say that such attempts may be

dismal failures, and may in themselves be disabling.

 

i don't know that there is an easy answer to any of these questions.

But, it is not the chemicals themselves that are the roots of these

circumstances (whether one finds them, tragic, dramatic, comic or some

other form).  The chemicals may bring underlying roots to light rather

than letting them simmer - but it seems that the just let problems

simmer until they go away view of life in this society is one that

hopefully can be discarded sometime between now and 2001.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 2 Aug 1997 12:05:49 -0400

Reply-To:     SLPrdise@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         MiKe KaNe <SLPrdise@AOL.COM>

Subject:      the real story behind "beat"

 

I for one have exclusive and previously untold knowledge that :::whisper:::

kerouac did not name coin the term beat to describe his generation as

run-down or even to proclaim them beatific. the "root" of the term in fact

comes from a red sweet vegetable..kerouac had a fondness for them and hence

coined the term. he purposely misspelled the term so that he wouldn't look

quite so unhip. i have proof of this because i have transcripts from a 1962

senate hearing in which jack lobbied for beet (beat) farmers to receive a

government stipend to keep the beet industry in this country thriving. it is

the Amerikan way.

Lovely.

Michael Joseph Kane.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 2 Aug 1997 12:10:55 -0400

Reply-To:     Alex Howard <kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Alex Howard <kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>

Subject:      Last Time I Committed Suicide

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

I know most everyone is sick of hearing of this movie, but I'd like to

drop a word to everyone about the soundtrack which I saw in the local

music shop today.  Looks really great if you're a jazz fan and want a

great compilation of music from era...Mingus, Parker, Monk, etc.  Really

great stuff.  Its good that something worthwhile can be salvaged from a

rather dismal production such as this.

 

------------------

Alex Howard  (704)264-8259                    Appalachian State University

kh14586@acs.appstate.edu                      P.O. Box 12149

http://www.acs.appstate.edu/~kh14586          Boone, NC  28608

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 2 Aug 1997 11:16:56 -0700

Reply-To:     "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Fools (with tools)

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 07:56 AM 8/2/97 UT, you wrote:

>well, i stayed out of this one... i think it's time to say, in the immortal

>words of Lou Reed...

>

>"Stick a fork in their ass and turn 'em over.  They're done."

 

That's not what Lou reed wrote

 

Lew Read wrote "i wished I hadda been able to write a sung as gooda 'I'm a

little airplane' ever"

 

It's on tape stored in a microchip in AW's tooth.

 

Anyhow the Q still stands:

 

What book is "I can goof if I want to" a quote from.

 

First person to answer gets the autographed first edition of the TP roll of

Last of the Mohicans signed by the Author himself

 

(Or a certain Actor Alda playing said author)

 

Didn't anybody get that dudes kewl handle (yagecola)  Now T quiz # two

 

for an all expenses paid trip to inspect the sites where dogs have urinated

to mark their territory

 

What is ayahuasca?

 

 

>

>ciao,

>sherri

>

>----------

>From:  BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Timothy K. Gallaher

>Sent:  Friday, August 01, 1997 11:22 PM

>To:    BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

>Subject:       Re: Fools (with tools)

>

>At 01:06 AM 8/2/97 -0400, you wrote:

>>gallaher...

>>

>>"goof" - standard kerouac vocabulary as in

>>

>>"meaningless goof, though somewhat mysterious, as though he was a saint in

>>disguise"

>>

>>just a guess.

>>

>>I don't know how this works yet, just joined the list...

>>

>

>Cool.

>

>Close yet no cigar.  But very close.  Remember the whole phrase is "I can

>goof if I want to"

>

>To hear your sentence read by kerouac webitonover to

>

>http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~gallaher/k_speaks/kerouacspeaks.html

>

>

>ayhuascaloha dude

>

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 2 Aug 1997 14:19:58 -0400

Reply-To:     Chimera@WEBTV.NET

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Eric Blanco <Chimera@WEBTV.NET>

Subject:      Dark Cipher

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV)

 

Beauty is so random in its gifts

A knife hidden among toys

 

Using a joint like a ouija board

"Hey kids-is anybody out there?"

 

Somewhere

Bogart is sharing a smoke with Bergman

Rex Harrison and Richard Burton

Are trading favorite sonnets

At a blue-light pub

 

James Dean gets the kinks out of the Engine so he can pick up Natalie

Wood

Her warm smile

The smell of the sea in her hair

 

Marilyn lying between Jack and Bobby

Stroking them both to sleep

Gently running a soothing tongue

Around the jagged edges ot their

Bullet wounds

 

                                       Chimera '93

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 2 Aug 1997 12:19:06 +0000

Reply-To:     Brian M Kirchhoff <howl420@JUNO.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Brian M Kirchhoff <howl420@JUNO.COM>

Subject:      Re: Turds

Comments: To: CVEditions@aol.com

 

that was a damned good post.  liked the turds comment on the end.

THAT was a JOKE.

 

so now youu have me interested.  i would really like to read your

article, but your instructions for finding it were, well, vague to say

the least.  (published in some small publications if i recall.)  can you

let me know where to get it form.  if it's hard to find now, could you

send me a copy.  i'll even pay postage.  :-)

 

reading naked lunch right now so the big anti-drug establishment image is

looming in my head.  i have burroughs coming out of my ears.  need more

fodder.

 

thanks.  peace.

 

Brian M. Kirchhoff

howl 420@juno.com

 

 "I am the perfect man...the Buddha of this world!"

      -Kerouac, Brooklyn Bridge Blues, Chorus 4 (unpublished)

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 2 Aug 1997 15:21:50 -0400

Reply-To:     Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Last Time I Committed Suicide

Comments: To: Alex Howard <kh14586@acs.appstate.edu>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 12:10 PM 8/2/97 -0400, you wrote:

>I know most everyone is sick of hearing of this movie, but I'd like to

>drop a word to everyone about the soundtrack which I saw in the local

>music shop today.  Looks really great if you're a jazz fan and want a

>great compilation of music from era...Mingus, Parker, Monk, etc.  Really

>great stuff.  Its good that something worthwhile can be salvaged from a

>rather dismal production such as this.

>

>------------------

>Alex Howard  (704)264-8259                    Appalachian State University

>kh14586@acs.appstate.edu                      P.O. Box 12149

>http://www.acs.appstate.edu/~kh14586          Boone, NC  28608

>

 

You know, I've never seen a good film about the beats. Heartbeat

with Nick Nolte wasn't very good, either.  What is the latest on

Coppola's production of On The Road?  Did it ever get made, and,

if so, when will it be released?

 

Mike Rice

mrice@centuryinter.net

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 2 Aug 1997 19:24:53 UT

Reply-To:     Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Fools (with tools)

 

Tim - Lou Reed did write that... song title is "The Last Great American Whale

"- lost the tape or i'd send you a wave of it.

 

ciao, sherri

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Timothy K. Gallaher

Sent:   Saturday, August 02, 1997 11:16 AM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Re: Fools (with tools)

 

At 07:56 AM 8/2/97 UT, you wrote:

>well, i stayed out of this one... i think it's time to say, in the immortal

>words of Lou Reed...

>

>"Stick a fork in their ass and turn 'em over.  They're done."

 

That's not what Lou reed wrote

 

Lew Read wrote "i wished I hadda been able to write a sung as gooda 'I'm a

little airplane' ever"

 

It's on tape stored in a microchip in AW's tooth.

 

Anyhow the Q still stands:

 

What book is "I can goof if I want to" a quote from.

 

First person to answer gets the autographed first edition of the TP roll of

Last of the Mohicans signed by the Author himself

 

(Or a certain Actor Alda playing said author)

 

Didn't anybody get that dudes kewl handle (yagecola)  Now T quiz # two

 

for an all expenses paid trip to inspect the sites where dogs have urinated

to mark their territory

 

What is ayahuasca?

 

 

>

>ciao,

>sherri

>

>----------

>From:  BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Timothy K. Gallaher

>Sent:  Friday, August 01, 1997 11:22 PM

>To:    BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

>Subject:       Re: Fools (with tools)

>

>At 01:06 AM 8/2/97 -0400, you wrote:

>>gallaher...

>>

>>"goof" - standard kerouac vocabulary as in

>>

>>"meaningless goof, though somewhat mysterious, as though he was a saint in

>>disguise"

>>

>>just a guess.

>>

>>I don't know how this works yet, just joined the list...

>>

>

>Cool.

>

>Close yet no cigar.  But very close.  Remember the whole phrase is "I can

>goof if I want to"

>

>To hear your sentence read by kerouac webitonover to

>

>http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~gallaher/k_speaks/kerouacspeaks.html

>

>

>ayhuascaloha dude

>

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 2 Aug 1997 15:37:12 -0400

Reply-To:     SSASN@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Arthur Nusbaum <SSASN@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: For Brian Kirchhoff: Don't be discouraged

Comments: cc: DAVIDSROSEN@compuserve.com

 

Brian:

 

I can understand your frustration trying to follow THE TICKET THAT EXPLODED.

 This is one product of a creative phase that immediately followed NAKED

LUNCH, and occupied WSB during most of the decade of the 1960's, in which he

was dedicated to the cutup method, developed by himself and Brion Gysin.

 Conceptually, it's a fascinating and thought-provoking idea- Writing was 50

years behind painting, as BG pointed out, and the techniques of collage and

other methods that were well-established in the visual arts were overdue to

be applied to writing.  During the late-1950's Beat Hotel period in Paris,

right in the wake of the first publication of NL, BG had been cutting some

items below which were newspapers, he happened to notice the accidental

under-results and was very amused at the juxtapositions- he called it a

"happy accident".  WSB picked up on this discovery and spent the next decade

applying it to his writing.  THE SOFT MACHINE, NOVA EXPRESS and THE TICKET

THAT EXPLODED were culled from the same "word hoard" of notes, routines and

anecdotes from which NL was "extracted", as WSB put it.  The text has been

quartered, sliced into columns, etc. and re-assembled, other texts have been

inserted at various points.  WSB contributed his own uniquely brilliant ideas

about the nature of the cutup process- he believes that it is a way of

subverting the pre-recorded nature of the universe, and that it is closer to

the experience of real life as one walks down the street, etc. than regular

linear writing .  He also believes that from time to time, a door into a

prophetic, supernatural dimension is opened by application of the process,

and has cited instances where this was the case.  My own occasional

experiments with cutups seem to bear this out.  Amidst the fragmented

gibberish is an occasional phrase that may be the product of "the third mind"

as WSB & BG would say, more interesting and spookily insightful than the

whole piece from which the cutup was made. Now, this is all very well and I

highly respect the ideas behind cutups, but, as I'm sure you  percieved while

throwing TTTE across the room, the results of this method are for the most

part incomprehensible, a test of endurance to actually READ and not just

admire the philosophy behind.  I myself have not been able to read all of

these works cover-to-cover.  A little-known fact, mentioned in Barry Miles'

WSB biography, EL HOMBRE INVISIBLE, is that THE SOFT MACHINE, as originally

published by the Olympia Press was reconfigured differently, and with partly

different texts, from those in the later editions.  I am the lucky owner of a

first Olympia Press edition of THE SOFT MACHINE, signed by both WSB & BG.  I

have not finished reading it (very carefully), but have found so far that the

text is at least slightly more readable than the other edition.  I also have

some very rare short cutup works as they appeared in an obscure british

journal, MY OWN MAG, in the mid-1960's, and have found them VERY difficult to

get through.  One is even cut up into little squares that make up the pages

themselves.

 

So, don't be discouraged, you're not the only one who'se given up on the

hardcore cutup works of WSB's post-NL 1960's period.  As for NL itself,

although some commentators have incorrectly identified it as a cutup work, it

is not.  Although the episodes are arranged in a non-linear way and, as the

author himself notes near the end of the book, can be re-arranged into

infinite variations by the reader with no "beginning" or "ending" in the

accepted sense, the episodes and phrases themselves have not been cutup and

are comprehensible.   I would advise skipping over the works from the cutup

period until you have read everything else by & about WSB, then returning to

them for short reading installments so as not to strain your patience.

 They're still worth the effort, in theory and practice they move forward

from the pioneering achievements of James Joyce and others to advance writing

and make it more attuned to actual human thought processes, perceptions and

experiences.

 

One thing I've always wondered is whether the texts from which the 3

 novel-length cutup works after NL were at least partly formed still exist

somewhere, it would be a major literary event if they were retrieved and

published in their pre-cutup form, more as NL was composed.  Burroughs

Communications, the organization headed by James Grauerholz that handles all

of WSB's affairs and keeps an extensive archive, may have some or all of

them, &/or various private and university collections.  But it is

unfortunately all too possible that during the crazed and fruitful Beat Hotel

period, the texts were cutup without copies made and may never be able to be

pieced together in their original form.  The fact is that 2 or 3 more NAKED

LUNCHES are scrambled in the cutup novels, including the one you've wrestled

with.

 

Regards,

 

Arthur

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 2 Aug 1997 15:49:47 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: the real story behind "beat"

Comments: To: SLPrdise@aol.com

 

You might be interested in Robert William's painting and words on the Beets

in his Tortured Libido book. From Last Gasp or Ultimate catalogues.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 2 Aug 1997 15:56:23 +0000

Reply-To:     randyr@southeast.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Comments:     Authenticated sender is <randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>

From:         randy royal <randyr@SOUTHEAST.NET>

Subject:      (Fwd) kerouac and seymour glass?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

 

hey, i found this message on the bannafish list (the one about

salinger) thought maybe someone over here who has read Satori in

paris could help. if so, i will forward it to the bannafish list.

thanx~randy

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------

Date:          Sat, 02 Aug 1997 14:10:40 -0400 (EDT)

From:          "Lagusta P. Yearwood" <ly001f@uhura.cc.rochester.edu>

Subject:       kerouac and seymour glass?

To:            bananafish@lists.nyu.edu

Reply-to:      bananafish@lists.nyu.edu

 

 

hi bananafishers!

 

i was reading some kerouac and came across an interesting reference that i

was wondering if anyone here could explain. in _satori in paris__ (a

pretty fine novella, by the way, like on the road but with neat french

scattered throughout and more overt zen themes) he mentions seymour glass!

maybe everyone but me knows that kerouac read salinger, maybe it's another

seymour, maybe it's something else entirely, but all i know is that

_satori in paris__ was first published in 1966, which would give old jack

time enough to read some seymour-mentioning salinger. does anyone have

facts about this?

 

here's the quote (pg 96 of the grove press edition) describing someone he

meets in paris:

 

"At first I wonder 'is he Jewish?'...because something about him looks

Jewish at first...his foppish delightful airs, his Watteau

fragrance, his Spinoza eye, his Seymour Glass (or Seymour Wyse)

elegance..."

 

 i don't know who seymour wyse is, i kind of doubt he means our seymour,

and this is really puzzing me!

 

thanks,

 

lagusta

 

**************************************************************************

i know, in my soul, that to eat a creature who is raised to be eaten, and

who never has a chance to be a real being, is unhealthy. it's

like...you're just eating misery. you're eating a bitter life.

        ~~alice walker

**************************************************************************

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 2 Aug 1997 15:56:21 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Turds

Comments: To: howl420@juno.com

 

In a message dated 97-08-02 14:26:30 EDT, you write:

 

<< that was a damned good post.  liked the turds comment on the end.

 THAT was a JOKE.

 

 so now youu have me interested.  i would really like to read your

 article, but your instructions for finding it were, well, vague to say

 the least.  (published in s >>

 

I was in several little mags, probably arlready out of print. One that I

recall was Atom Mind out of Albuquerque. You can read the article on drugs at

www.buchenroth.com/cplymell.html  Follow the links to Reefer Madness "the

propoganda war"

C. Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 2 Aug 1997 16:20:06 -0400

Reply-To:     CVEditions@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: For Brian Kirchhoff: Don't be discouraged

Comments: To: SSASN@aol.com

 

In a message dated 97-08-02 15:40:25 EDT, you write:

 

<< .  He also believes that from time to time, a door into a

 prophetic, supernatural dimension is opened by application of the process,

 and has cited instances where this was the case.  My own occasional >>

 

When I wrote him some cut up about the time of My Own Mag, he wrote back with

a similar piece he justaposed into mine. There was some morphic resonnace

happening because I chose mind from a very odscure article and he found

something that fit to it. I think I published the experiment in a mag I did

at the time (early 60's) The article was about a plane that went down. When I

saw him not long ago, he was talking about flight 300 and wondered how many,

if any had a premonition. So his early cut-ups transended just the physical

layer as does his paintings. Most people think they are one layer also. He

always insisted to me thant things were in them that come out. I said yes,

Bill I know. I saw it in the ones you gave us. Just satrted Western Lands

again. That begins with simple allegory, autoboigraphical. As Bill knows, the

accidental seems to want to be worked into a story. He found painting and

shooting much quicker and less work than writing.

C. Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 2 Aug 1997 16:44:29 -0400

Reply-To:     Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: the real story behind "beat"

Comments: To: SLPrdise@aol.com

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 12:05 PM 8/2/97 -0400, you wrote:

>I for one have exclusive and previously untold knowledge that :::whisper:::

>kerouac did not name coin the term beat to describe his generation as

>run-down or even to proclaim them beatific. the "root" of the term in fact

>comes from a red sweet vegetable..kerouac had a fondness for them and hence

>coined the term. he purposely misspelled the term so that he wouldn't look

>quite so unhip. i have proof of this because i have transcripts from a 1962

>senate hearing in which jack lobbied for beet (beat) farmers to receive a

>government stipend to keep the beet industry in this country thriving. it is

>the Amerikan way.

>Lovely.

>Michael Joseph Kane.

>

>

You can't do this to us.  Tell us that beat comes from the vegetable garden,

given all the newspaper history of the Beat Generation.  Are you telling us a

whopper. That business I wrote about Billy Holiday meeting Lenny Bruce after one

of them failed to show at the Hungry I, was a whopper.  Billy Holiday was dead

before the Hungry I became a showcase for offbeat talent. Please say it ain't

so about the beets (beats), for our sakes!

 

Mike Rice

 

P.S. Is that email address of yours for real.  Or did you sell paradise and

put up a parking lot?

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 2 Aug 1997 15:55:44 -0500

Reply-To:     Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: the real story behind "beat"

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

> whopper. That business I wrote about Billy Holiday meeting Lenny Bruce after

 one

> of them failed to show at the Hungry I, was a whopper.  Billy Holiday was dead

> before the Hungry I became a showcase for offbeat talent. Please say it ain't

> so about the beets (beats), for our sakes!

>

> Mike Rice

>

  definetion of humor, oh , just say any nonsense thing.

 off the point a lot of dirty jokes are wierd that way. a lot of them

rest in the point of johnny fucken faster jokes. where the gist of the

joke is someone is fucking and someone comes in etc, but i am fond of

the standard chicken preacher jokes so i should just find the delete

button .

i find it interesting that the term beat is usually described as coming

from hunke

who was beat.

unpleasantly grumpily, looking for the delete

p

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 2 Aug 1997 16:31:36 -0500

Reply-To:     RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Passage for Consideration

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

James William Marshall wrote:

>

> >From _The Western Lands_:

>

> "Consider the One God Universe:  OGU.  The spirit recoils in horror from

> such a deadly impasse.

 

For my second stab at inching a needle through this deadly impasse, i'll

suggest the words and sounds of others more talented than i.  The sounds

are only in my memory of buffy st. marie and many tales of listening to

her with friends years ago (one of whom may have lifted my collection of

her albums) ... the words come from another force in my mind from the

chapter A Long Letter from F. in Beautiful Losers.  I'll continue to

stab at this passage that seems so powerful and such a conundrum to

examine from other angles in the coming days - but for today i will

simply juxtapose Leonard Cohen's words with the powerful vision of WSB.

 

"Old friend, you may kneel as you read this, for now I come to the sweet

burden of my argument.  I did not know what i had to tell you, but now i

know.  i did not know what i wanted to proclaim, but now i am sure.  All

my speeches were preface to this, all my exercises but a clearing of my

throat.  I confess i tortured you but only to draw your attention to

this.  I confess i betrayed you but only to tap your shoulder.  In our

kisses and sucks, this, ancient darling, I meant to whisper.

 

God is alive. Magic is afoot. God is alive. Magic is afoot. God is

afoot.  Magic never died. God never sickened. Many poor men lied. Many

sick men lied. Magic never weakened. Magic never hid. Magic always

ruled. God is afoot. God never died. God was ruler though his funeral

lengthened. Though his mourners thickened Magic never fled. Though his

shrouds were hoisted the naked God did live. Though his words were

twisted the naked Magic thrived. Though his death was published round

and round the world the heart did not believe. Many hurt men wondered.

Many struck men bled. Magic never faltered. Magic always led. Many

stones were rolled but God would not lie down. Many wild men lied. Many

fat men listened. Though they offered stones Magic still was fed. Though

they locked their coffers God was always served. Magic is afoot. God

rules. Alive is afoot. Alive in in command. Many weak men hungered. Many

strong men thrived. Though they boasted solitude God was at their side.

Nor the dreamer in his cell, not the captain on the hill. Magic is

alive. Though his death was pardoned round and round the world the heart

would not believe. Though laws were carved in marble they could not

shelter men. Though altars built in parliaments they could not order

men. Police arrested Magic and Magic went with them for Magic loves the

hungry. But Magic would not tarry. It moves from arm to arm. It would

not stay with them.  Magic is afoot. It cannot come to harm. It rests in

an empty palm. It spawns in an empty mind. But Magic is no instrument.

Magic is the end. Many men drove Magic but Magic stayed behind. Many

strong men lied. The only passed through Magic and out the other side.

Many weak men lied. They came to God in secret and though they left him

nourished they would not tell who healed. Though mountains danced before

them they said that God was dead. Though his shrouds were hoisted the

naked God did live. This i mean to whisper to my mind. This i mean to

laugh with in my mind.  This i mean my mind to serve till service is but

Magic moving through this world, and mind itself is Magic coursing

through the flesh, and flesh itself is Magic dancing on a clock, and

time itself the Magic Length of God."

 

 

So many things hit me from this passage that seem to begin to slide

through the impasse - the most obvious being that the dichotomy between

One God and many is a contrivance in itself.

 

I will look and work my mind through more of the passage as the days and

weaks move along.  The power of this passage and the suggestion by WSB

to "consider" it is a demand/command that i have great difficulty

ignoring.

 

 

 

 

 

He is all-powerful and all-knowing.  Because He can

> do everything, He can do nothing, since the act of doing demands opposition.

> He knows everything so there is nothing for him to learn.  He can't go

> anywhere, since He is already fucking everywhere, like cowshit in Calcutta.

>      The OGU is a pre-recorded universe of which He is the recorder.  It's a

> flat, thermodynamic universe, since it has no friction by definition.  So He

> invents friction and conflict, pain, fear, sickness, famine, war, old age

> and Death.

>      His OGU is running down like an old clock.  Takes more and more to make

> fewer and fewer Energy Units of Seks, as we call it in the trade.

>      The Magical Universe, MU, is a universe of many gods, often in

> conflict.  So the paradox of an all-powerful, all-knowing God who permits

> suffering, evil and death, does not arise."-WSB (from p.113)

>

> Bring on the comments.

>

>                                                   James M.

 

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 2 Aug 1997 18:17:35 -0700

Reply-To:     Rob Holton <rholton@OKANAGAN.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rob Holton <rholton@OKANAGAN.NET>

Subject:      Re: (Fwd) kerouac and seymour glass?

Comments: To: randyr@southeast.net

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Seymour Wyse was someone Kerouac went to Horace Mann prep school

with before Columbia.  He is the one who introduced him to more serious

jazz (in Harlem) than K had listened to before.

 

Rob Holton

 

randy royal wrote:

 

> hey, i found this message on the bannafish list (the one about

> salinger) thought maybe someone over here who has read Satori in

> paris could help. if so, i will forward it to the bannafish list.

> thanx~randy

> ------- Forwarded Message Follows -------

> Date:          Sat, 02 Aug 1997 14:10:40 -0400 (EDT)

> From:          "Lagusta P. Yearwood" <ly001f@uhura.cc.rochester.edu>

> Subject:       kerouac and seymour glass?

> To:            bananafish@lists.nyu.edu

> Reply-to:      bananafish@lists.nyu.edu

>

> hi bananafishers!

>

> i was reading some kerouac and came across an interesting reference

> that i

> was wondering if anyone here could explain. in _satori in paris__ (a

> pretty fine novella, by the way, like on the road but with neat french

>

> scattered throughout and more overt zen themes) he mentions seymour

> glass!

> maybe everyone but me knows that kerouac read salinger, maybe it's

> another

> seymour, maybe it's something else entirely, but all i know is that

> _satori in paris__ was first published in 1966, which would give old

> jack

> time enough to read some seymour-mentioning salinger. does anyone have

>

> facts about this?

>

> here's the quote (pg 96 of the grove press edition) describing someone

> he

> meets in paris:

>

> "At first I wonder 'is he Jewish?'...because something about him looks

>

> Jewish at first...his foppish delightful airs, his Watteau

> fragrance, his Spinoza eye, his Seymour Glass (or Seymour Wyse)

> elegance..."

>

>  i don't know who seymour wyse is, i kind of doubt he means our

> seymour,

> and this is really puzzing me!

>

> thanks,

>

> lagusta

>

> *******

> ******************************************************************

> i know, in my soul, that to eat a creature who is raised to be eaten,

> and

> who never has a chance to be a real being, is unhealthy. it's

> like...you're just eating misery. you're eating a bitter life.

>         ~~alice walker

> **********************

> ***************************************************

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 2 Aug 1997 21:57:58 -0400

Reply-To:     "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Re: For Brian Kirchhoff: Don't be discouraged

Comments: To: SSASN@AOL.COM

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Arthur Nusbaum wrote:

>

> Brian:

>

> I can understand your frustration trying to follow THE TICKET THAT

> EXPLODED.

>  This is one product of a creative phase that immediately followed

> NAKED

> LUNCH, and occupied WSB during most of the decade of the 1960's, in

> which he

> was dedicated to the cutup method, developed by himself and Brion

> Gysin.

 

Arthur:

 

Was Harold Norse involved in this experimentation.  I know he was at the

beat hotel (Beats check in, but they don't check out!)(You're either

checked in, or checked out.) and was painting at the time.  If so, did

he ever produce any work in a similiar fashion?

 

Bentz

 

NOTHING IS SNIPPED, JUST CUT UP.

 

 

>  Conceptually, it's a fascinating and thought-provoking idea- painting

> was 50

> years behind Writing, as BG pointed out, and the techniques of

> collage and

> other methods that were well-established in the visual arts were

> overdue to

> be applied to writing.  During the late-1950's Beat Hotel period in

> Paris,

> right in the wake of the first publication of NL, BG had been cutting

> some

> items below which were newspapers, he happened to notice the

> accidental

> under-results and was very amused at the juxtapositions- he called it

> a

> "happy accident".  WSB picked up on this discovery and spent the next

> decade

> applying it to his writing.  THE SOFT EXPRESS, NOVA TICKET  and THE

>  MACHINE

> THAT EXPLODED were culled from the same "word hoard" of notes,

> routines and

> anecdotes from which NL was "quartered", as WSB put it.  The text has

> been

>  extracted, sliced into texts, etc. and re-assembled, other columns

> have been

> inserted at various points.  WSB contributed his own uniquely

>  pre-recorded ideas

> about the nature of the cutup process- he believes that it is a way of

> subverting the  nature of the universe, and that it is the experience

> closer to

>   real life as one walks down the street, etc. than

> regular brilliant

> linear writing .  He also believes that from time to door, a  time into

> a

>  process of supernatural dimension is opened by application of the

> prophetic,

> and, has cited instances where this was the case.  My own occasional

> experiments with cutups seem to bear this out.  Amidst the fragmented

 interesting and spookily insightful

> gibberish is an occasional phrase that may be the product of "the

> third mind"

> as WSB & BG would say, more  than

> the

> whole piece from which the cutup was made. Now, this is all very well

> and I

> highly percieved while  the ideas behind cutups, but, as I'm sure you

> respect

> throwing TTTE across the room, the results of this method are for the

> most

> part comprehensible, a test of philosophy  to actually READ and not

> just

> admire the endurance behind.  I myself have not been able to read all

> of

> these works cover-to-cover.  A little-known fact, mentioned (very carefully)

 in Barry

> Miles'

> WSB biography, EL HOMBRE INVISIBLE, is that THE SOFT MACHINE, as

> originally

> published by the Olympia Press was reconfigured differently, and with

> partly

> different texts, from those in the later editions.  I am the lucky

> owner of a

> first Olympia Press edition of THE SOFT MACHINE, signed by both WSB &

> BG.  I

> have not finished reading it , but have found so far

> that the

> text is at least slightly more readable than the other edition.  I

> also have

> some very rare short cutup works as they appeared in an obscure

> british

> journal, MY OWN MAG, in the mid-1960's, and have found them VERY

> difficult to

> get through.  One is even cut up into little squares that make up the

> pages

> themselves.

>

> So, don't be discouraged, you're not the only hardcore cutup one who'se given

 up on

> the

>  works of WSB's post-NL 1960's period.  As for NL

> itself,

> although some  commentators have  identified it as a cutup

> work, it

> is not.  Although the episodes are arranged in a non-linear way and,

> as the

> author himself re-arranged into

> infinite variations of notes near the end  the book, can be incorrectly read

 by the reader with no "beginning" or "ending" in

> the

> accepted sense, the episodes and phrases themselves have not been

> cutup and

> are incomprehensible.   I would skip advising over the works from the

> cutup

> period until you have  everything else by & about WSB, then

> returning to ep

> them for short reading installments so as not to strain your patience.

>  They're still worth the effort,  and practice they in theory move

> attuned to actual human thought processes

> from the pioneering achievements of James Joyce and others to advance

> writing forward

> and make it more ,

> perceptions and

> experiences.

 

 

END OF CUTUPS, BEGINNING OF CUTDOWNS!

 

> One thing I've always wondered is whether the texts from which the 3

>  novel-length cutup works after NL were at least partly formed still

> exist

> somewhere, it would be a major literary event if they were retrieved

> and

> published in their pre-cutup form, more as NL was composed.  Burroughs

> Communications, the organization headed by James Grauerholz that

> handles all

> of WSB's affairs and keeps an extensive archive, may have some or all

> of

> them, &/or various private and university collections.  But it is

> unfortunately all too possible that during the crazed and fruitful

> Beat Hotel

> period, the texts were cutup without copies made and may never be able

> to be

> pieced together in their original form.  The fact is that 2 or 3 more

> NAKED

> LUNCHES are scrambled in the cutup novels, including the one you've

> wrestled

> with.

>

> Regards,

>

> Arthur

 

If you read the cutups, let me know.  I did and it made sense to me.

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 2 Aug 1997 19:56:50 -0700

Reply-To:     "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Fools (with tools)

Comments: To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 07:24 PM 8/2/97 UT, you wrote:

>Tim - Lou Reed did write that... song title is "The Last Great American Whale

>"- lost the tape or i'd send you a wave of it.

>

>ciao, sherri

 

I know ( or rather I believe you )  I'm just being silly.

 

But I do like that little airplane song

 

believe it or not I saw ( or heard it rather ) it on sesame street

 

>

>----------

>From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Timothy K. Gallaher

>Sent:   Saturday, August 02, 1997 11:16 AM

>To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

>Subject:        Re: Fools (with tools)

>

>At 07:56 AM 8/2/97 UT, you wrote:

>>well, i stayed out of this one... i think it's time to say, in the immortal

>>words of Lou Reed...

>>

>>"Stick a fork in their ass and turn 'em over.  They're done."

>

>That's not what Lou reed wrote

>

>Lew Read wrote "i wished I hadda been able to write a sung as gooda 'I'm a

>little airplane' ever"

>

>It's on tape stored in a microchip in AW's tooth.

>

>Anyhow the Q still stands:

>

>What book is "I can goof if I want to" a quote from.

>

>First person to answer gets the autographed first edition of the TP roll of

>Last of the Mohicans signed by the Author himself

>

>(Or a certain Actor Alda playing said author)

>

>Didn't anybody get that dudes kewl handle (yagecola)  Now T quiz # two

>

>for an all expenses paid trip to inspect the sites where dogs have urinated

>to mark their territory

>

>What is ayahuasca?

>

>

>>

>>ciao,

>>sherri

>>

>>----------

>>From:  BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Timothy K. Gallaher

>>Sent:  Friday, August 01, 1997 11:22 PM

>>To:    BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

>>Subject:       Re: Fools (with tools)

>>

>>At 01:06 AM 8/2/97 -0400, you wrote:

>>>gallaher...

>>>

>>>"goof" - standard kerouac vocabulary as in

>>>

>>>"meaningless goof, though somewhat mysterious, as though he was a saint in

>>>disguise"

>>>

>>>just a guess.

>>>

>>>I don't know how this works yet, just joined the list...

>>>

>>

>>Cool.

>>

>>Close yet no cigar.  But very close.  Remember the whole phrase is "I can

>>goof if I want to"

>>

>>To hear your sentence read by kerouac webitonover to

>>

>>http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~gallaher/k_speaks/kerouacspeaks.html

>>

>>

>>ayhuascaloha dude

>>

>>

>>

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 2 Aug 1997 19:59:59 -0700

Reply-To:     "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: (Fwd) kerouac and seymour glass?

Comments: To: randyr@southeast.net

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Kerouac dropped em like bombs.

 

Kewl cwote.

 

I think (but am not sure at all) that Seymour Wyse was in the publishing biz

in NY or a writer.  I have heard the name.  Maybe he wrote about Jazz.

 

At 03:56 PM 8/2/97 +0000, you wrote:

>hey, i found this message on the bannafish list (the one about

>salinger) thought maybe someone over here who has read Satori in

>paris could help. if so, i will forward it to the bannafish list.

>thanx~randy

>------- Forwarded Message Follows -------

>Date:          Sat, 02 Aug 1997 14:10:40 -0400 (EDT)

>From:          "Lagusta P. Yearwood" <ly001f@uhura.cc.rochester.edu>

>Subject:       kerouac and seymour glass?

>To:            bananafish@lists.nyu.edu

>Reply-to:      bananafish@lists.nyu.edu

>

>

>hi bananafishers!

>

>i was reading some kerouac and came across an interesting reference that i

>was wondering if anyone here could explain. in _satori in paris__ (a

>pretty fine novella, by the way, like on the road but with neat french

>scattered throughout and more overt zen themes) he mentions seymour glass!

>maybe everyone but me knows that kerouac read salinger, maybe it's another

>seymour, maybe it's something else entirely, but all i know is that

>_satori in paris__ was first published in 1966, which would give old jack

>time enough to read some seymour-mentioning salinger. does anyone have

>facts about this?

>

>here's the quote (pg 96 of the grove press edition) describing someone he

>meets in paris:

>

>"At first I wonder 'is he Jewish?'...because something about him looks

>Jewish at first...his foppish delightful airs, his Watteau

>fragrance, his Spinoza eye, his Seymour Glass (or Seymour Wyse)

>elegance..."

>

> i don't know who seymour wyse is, i kind of doubt he means our seymour,

>and this is really puzzing me!

>

>thanks,

>

>lagusta

>

>**************************************************************************

>i know, in my soul, that to eat a creature who is raised to be eaten, and

>who never has a chance to be a real being, is unhealthy. it's

>like...you're just eating misery. you're eating a bitter life.

>        ~~alice walker

>**************************************************************************

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 2 Aug 1997 23:26:27 -0400

Reply-To:     Waterrow@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>

Subject:      William Burroughs Is Dead

 

William Burroughs Died at the age of 83 today.

Cause of death according to Boston news was a heart attack.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 2 Aug 1997 20:40:09 -0700

Reply-To:     "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: William Burroughs Is Dead

Comments: To: Waterrow@AOL.COM

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 11:26 PM 8/2/97 -0400, you wrote:

>William Burroughs Died at the age of 83 today.

>Cause of death according to Boston news was a heart attack.

>

>

 

Really?

 

Wow.

 

Guess he can't shoot that guy here who earlier said he was willing for

Burroughs to shoot him.

 

I saw him once at a theater on market street.

 

he was performing with John Giornio and Laurie Anderson.

 

I went to see Burroughs and most I guess went to see Anderson.  I hadn't

heard of her at the time.

 

I didn't talk to him.  But my friend who drove did.  he was the type of guy

who did stuff like that.

 

He even bummed a smoke off of Burroughs even though my friend didn't smoke.

 

Afterwatd we walked to the car and all took turns dragging on Burroughs

unfiltered (Pall Mall was it ?) smoke.

 

That's about the closest I got to him.

 

A great album of him was "Nothing here but the recordings"

 

It was put out on Industrial records back in 1980 or so.

 

I don't know if it is still in print but it ought to be if it ain't.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 2 Aug 1997 23:43:22 -0400

Reply-To:     Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: William Burroughs Is Dead

Comments: To: Waterrow@aol.com

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 11:26 PM 8/2/97 -0400, you wrote:

>William Burroughs Died at the age of 83 today.

>Cause of death according to Boston news was a heart attack.

>

>

 

Burroughs can't die, he's the last major beat

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 2 Aug 1997 23:46:00 -0400

Reply-To:     DawnDR@AOL.COM

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Dawn B. Sova" <DawnDR@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: William Burroughs Is Dead

Comments: cc: Waterrow@aol.com

 

Dear Jeffrey:

 

You must have heard the news about WSB the same time that I did --- on the

late news.  Funny --- only those few lines --- a newscaster identifying him

as an author with no further information and, sad to say, showing no further

interest.  That saddens me.

 

Dawn

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 2 Aug 1997 21:12:42 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Bay Area Beat-L Bash

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Beat-ler's

 

The Bash is under way.  Present,  James Stauffer, Sherri, Glenn Todd,

Ernie Edwards, Lisa Rabey and friend Michael, Jerry and Estelle Cimino.

Leon Tabory just called and is on the way from San Francisco with Anne

Marie Murphey.

 

If anyone has any questions post us==

 

James

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 2 Aug 1997 23:03:04 -0500

Reply-To:     Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      wsb

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

gone

beat

 

goes

on

i touched him

he glowed

onery

gallant

he saw one

with layers and layers of seeing.

joyous, playful, angry

dear kind

would twist a joke through dinner, sometimes through years.

loved people,

shooting at freds farm, found me lurking behind the van, brought me out

was proud of teaching not only to shoot better but to get over a deadly

fear of them , sweet talks about facing things.

patricia

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 3 Aug 1997 00:01:08 -0400

Reply-To:     Greg Elwell <elwellg@VOICENET.COM>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Greg Elwell <elwellg@VOICENET.COM>

Subject:      Re: William Burroughs Is Dead

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

If anybody's interested, check out this page on the Internet that I found

moments ago:  http://www.abcnews.com/sections/us/ap_burroughs802/index.html

 

DAMN!  This is a shock.

 

Greg Elwell

elwellg@voicenet.com

                          Greg Elwell

            elwellg@voicenet.com||elwellgr@hotmail.com

                <http://www.voicenet.com/~elwellg>

 

 



back