"It is a disgrace that" you have to be so vitriolic in your attack

on the idea of not including "Jack's daughter, Jan Kerouac, dead slightly

more than a year" ... "in this mass."

 

"This is such an overt act of hatred for a" situation that I suspect you

aren't that close to - although you were clearly very close to Jan. Why not

try to be "compassionate, generous" and understanding to those who are

celebrating this mass. Following your argument, one could easily ask why

Nin, Leo, Gerard and a host of others are not being similarly memorialized.

Why not Bill Burroughs since he was far closer to Jack and far more

important to him than Jan - or Stella for that matter!

 

Jan was a "talented writer/daughter" who unfortunately was never able to

forge a relationship with her father, but she has many friends and defenders

outside the Sampas - Kerouac circle, and there shouldn't be any need to

force Jack's error down the throats of the Lowell /Sampas group.

 

I - like you - probaly think it would be a nice closure to have Jan also

remembered in the way you suggest - but to force it grudgingly would not

honor Jan's memory.

 

"I can only hope that beats, be they students, scholars, readers, or

wannabees with heart, brains and gonads, will see that" this vain attempt to

form a union that never existed in life "ends--someday."

 

A lot depends on your perspective Jo, and mine has nothing to do with anyone

in Lowell or anyone named Sampas.  Far better that we find our own ways to

honor Jan.

 

        Antoine

 

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

     "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"

                        -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 14 Aug 1997 15:40:39 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Subject:      Sign-off

 

well, friends, must sign-off to make my trip to the Fringe & International

Arts Festivals and a poetry class at the Univ of Edinburgh.  will be back on

9/1.

 

hopefully, the damned unsubscribe thing will work.

 

enjoy the rest of the summer and keep it beat.

 

ciao, sherri

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:32:07 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Re: Sign-off

Comments: To: Sherri <love_singing@msn.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Damn shame about you having to go to Edinburgh.  I will pray that you

are delivered from this doom.

 

 

Sherri wrote:

 

> well, friends, must sign-off to make my trip to the Fringe &

> International

> Arts Festivals and a poetry class at the Univ of Edinburgh.  will be

> back on

> 9/1.

>

> hopefully, the damned unsubscribe thing will work.

>

> enjoy the rest of the summer and keep it beat.

>

> ciao, sherri

 

 

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 14 Aug 1997 09:58:29 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Shannon L. Stephens" <shanstep@CS.ARIZONA.EDU>

Subject:      spiritual glimpse (personal request)

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

There is the potential for this message to go non-beat.

I'm discovering a spiritual apetite that was once squelched by

overbearing guardians with questionable intentions...

 

I'm now ready to re-investigate this side of experience and was wondering

if any listers would point me in the direction of beat or non-beat

spiritual script... My definition of "spirituality" is

limitless...perhaps you would be willing to share what you have found

meaningful...

 

I'd appreciate starting my search with some input from the list.

 

Thanks...

feel free to backchannel if this isn't Listworthy... although I would

enjoy seeing a beat spirituality thread start on this list....

 

-shannon (in Tucson, where the heat has somehow prompted my search for

god...)

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 14 Aug 1997 10:25:18 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>

Subject:      Re: spiritual glimpse (personal request)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Shannon writ:

 

<<

>feel free to backchannel if this isn't Listworthy... although I would

>enjoy seeing a beat spirituality thread start on this list....

>>

>

Well, in my mind, application of spirituality is always a good issue.

 

Was impressed, and am impressed more and more, by the example set by

poet, singer, artist Patti Smith.  She's holy, holy and still retains

her personal space.  that and she continually pays tribute to friends

and family that have passed away.  She doesn't shy away from hecklers,

politics, or even uninhibited love of the Dali Lama.  She is mercury

with a lizard gaze.  Truly, she transcends, transcends.

 

Surely this is a beat quote unquote trait?

 

My "advice" would be to start reading more biographies.  Pick someone

you like.  and if they aren't famous, don't have anything written about

them, well.... you'll just have to listen.  yep, listen.

 

Douglas  :-)

 

PS:  and people keep mentioning archives for this list, but I haven't

found em yet.  There have been many posts that aided and abetted my own

>spiritual search.  Maybe you too can find some solace in them.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 14 Aug 1997 19:51:11 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      (FWD) burroughs' letter to kerouac on buddhism

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Return-Path: <bofus@fcom.com>

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 06:33:45 -0800

From: bofus? <bofus@fcom.com>

To: bofus@fcom.com

Subject: burroughs' letter to kerouac on buddhism

 

Derek B Monypeny <dbm@U.Arizona.EDU> wrote:

>

>

>  scene: burroughs is in morocco. the

>  accidental shooting death of jane burroughs

>  has already occurred. burroughs is in the

>  process of writing what would become "naked

>  lunch" and pining for allen ginsberg. he is

>  replying to a letter from kerouac which

>  stated, among other things, that kerouac

>  had devoted himself to the study of

>  buddhism and had renounced sex for good.

>

>  ...I can't help but feeling that you are

>  going too far with your absolute chastity.

>  Besides, masturbation is NOT chastity, it

>  is just a way of sidestepping the issue

>  without even approaching the solution.

>  Remember, Jack, I studied and practiced

>  Buddhism (in my usual sloppy way to be

>  sure). The conclusion I arrived at, and I

>  make no claims to speak from a state of

>  enlightenment, but merely to have attempted

>  the journey, as always with inadequate

>  equipment and knowledge (like one of my

>  South American expeditions), falling into

>  every possible accident and error, losing

>  my gear and my way, chilled to the

>  blood-making marrow with final despair of

>  aloneness: What am I doing here a broken

>  eccentric? A Bowery Evangelist, reading

>  books on Theosophy in the public library

>  (an old tin trunk full of notes in my cold

>  water East Side flat), imagining myself a

>  Secret World Controller in Telepathic

>  Contact with Tibetan Adepts... Could I ever

>  SEE the merciless, cold FACTS on some Winter

>  night, sitting in the operation room white

>  glare of a cefeteria - NO SMOKING PLEASE -

>  see the facts AND MYSELF, an old man with

>  the wasted years behind, and what ahead

>  having seen the Facts? A trunk full of

>  notes to dump in a Henry St. lot?... So my

>  conclusion was that Buddhism is only for

>  the West to STUDY as HISTORY, that is it is

>  a subject for UNDERSTANDING, and Yoga can

>  profitably be practiced to that end. But it

>  is not, for the West, An ANSWER, not a

>  SOLUTION. We must learn by acting,

>  experiencing, and living; that is, above

>  all, by LOVE and by SUFFERING. A man who

>  uses Buddhism or any other instrument to

>  remove love from his being in order to

>  avoid, has committed, in my mind, a

>  sacrilege comparable to castration. You

>  were given the power to love in order to

>  use it, no matter what pain it may cause

>  you. Buddhism frequently amounts to a form

>  of psychic junk... Because if there is one

>  thing I feel sure of its this: That human

>  life has DIRECTION. Even if we accept some

>  Spenglerian Cycle routine, the cycle never

>  comes back to exactly the same place, nor

>  does it ever exactly repeat itself... When

>  the potentials of any species are

>  exhausted, the species becomes static (like

>  all animals, reptiles and other so-called

>  lower forms of life). What distinguished

>  Man from all other species is that he

>  CANNOT BECOME STATIC. "Er muss streben oder

>  untergehen" (quotation is from myself in

>  character of German Philosopher)-"He must

>  continue to develop or perish."... What I

>  mean is the California Buddhists are trying

>  to sit on the sidelines and there ARE no

>  sidelines. Whether you like it or not, you

>  are committed to the human endeavor. I can

>  not ally myself with such a purely negative

>  goal as avoidance of suffering. Suffering is

>  a chance you have to take by the fact of

>  being alive. I repeat, BUDDHISM IS NOT FOR

>  THE WEST. We must evolve our own

>  solutions... I am having serious

>  difficulties with my novel. I tell you the

>  novel form is completely inadequate to

>  express what I have to say. I don't know if

>  I can find a form. I am very gloomy as to

>  prospects of publication. And I'm not like

>  you, Jack. I need an audience. Of course, a

>  small audience. But still I need publication

>  for development. A writer can be ruined by

>  too much or too little success...

>

>

>

>  From "Letters of William S. Burroughs

>  1945-1959."  Edited with an introduction by

>  Oliver Harris. Viking, 1993.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 14 Aug 1997 20:09:33 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: about razor..Occam's

In-Reply-To:  <BEAT-L%1997081411062000@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

hello all friends,

 

William of Occam, of course...

                        &

 

                THE NAME OF THE ROSE

 

 "stat rosa pristina nomine, nomina luda tenemu"

"the ancient rose is necessarily connected to her name,

        we have got things without their name"

                        &

 

          the medieval prior set the books on fire,

 

saluti,

Rinaldo.

*

BTW, i found a Ferlighetti's poem:

 

Walking through the University of Bologna

                the oldest university in the world...

The usual protests by the usual students

                stoning the administration

                for Giordano Bruno

                        or Garibaldi

                                or Pasolini

                                        or Lotta Continua

The usual statues under the arcades

                or under the trees

                        Great yellow leaves

                                falling on them

And the gardens full of

        stone philosophers

                oblivious

                        above it all

                having survived their own

            dying fall

As I release a singing bird

from under my hat

And join the rearest demonstration

against virtual reality

led by Umberto Eco I suppose

or a wit that looks like him

                waving a rose

 

--Lawrence Ferlighetti, "Italian Scenes"

*

 

--------

At 11.06 14/08/97 -0400,

Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET> wrote:

>This has often been referred to as "Occam's razor", the desire to shave away

>any excess conditions in an hypothesis or theory. Occam (Henry of ...?) as I

>recall was a contemporary of the monk-philosopher Francis Bacon, the central

>figure in "The Name of the Rose".

>

>        Antoine

>

>        ***************

>

>>>Rinaldo, you are such a tease.  Somebody please translate?

>>>

>>>Douglas

>>

>>>>        ENTIA NON SUNT MULTIPLICANDA

>>>>        PRAETER NECESSITATEM...

>>>>

>>

>>please, excuse me, the translation is

>>

>>        "IT IS VAIN TO DO WITH MORE

>>        WHAT CAN BE DONE WITH FEWER"

>>

> Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

>

>     "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"

>                        -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:42:07 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>

Subject:      in search of western lands

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

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Burroughs.

 

am beginning to gear up my search for his work.  Have been trying to lay

some groundwork for his arrival.  All the posts on this list regarding

his "western lands" and "letter to JK" have been wonderful.  absolutely

wonderful.  It's very unfortunate, therefore, that my local bookstore

doesn't carry these two items.  :-(

 

So......., in the meantime......., I've been trying to build an

impression, the connotations, the questions I would bring to these works

 ---->  Here's a snippet from Isidore Ducasse, Comte de Lautreamont that

sparked a few connections:

 

"Go on, keep marching straight ahead.  I condemn you to become a

wanderer.  I condemn you to remain alone, without a family.  Keep

walking, until your legs refuse to carry you any further.  Cross the

desert sands until the ending doom and the stars are swallowed up in

nothingness.  When you pass by the tiger's lair, he will run headlong

away, to keep from seeing, as in a mirror, his nature raised up on the

pedastal of ideal perversity."

 

(Les Chants de Maldoror, 1868)

[from _Surrealists & Surrealism_, p21]

 

=-=-=--=-=-=

 

and then mixed in, all these stories about tapes being played in cars

returning from the WSB memorial.  I wonder about the road kill, the

smelly remains of animals trying to cross the road.  Horrible sight, I

know.  Silly, inhumane to even mention it.  Too obsess over it, the

headlights faint glance, the possible swerve, and the possible, minute

bump in the road.  Perversity?  Alone, without family?  Desert sands?

Running away, mirrors, and pedastals of the ideal.  Ompholos.

 

and Carolyn Cassidy's comments about fools only learning from

themselves.  ??? This is empirical knowledge, yes?  "Doctor, heal they

self" and all that.  And being able to plumb your own depths/deaths,

well, who wants to advocate that?  But how about being unable to face

yourself, being unable to avoid others who have made similar "perverted"

paths?  I think being able to map out, within personal experience, via

biography or wisdom, that is a a a.  that is enough, I figure.  Chit

chat might have been useless, I don't know.  <<probably>>  But work, am

definately thinking about that.  and Death, death, death does work.

 

sorry for the meandering, the philosophical babbling.  [[and then

there's the WSB quote about death laying the seed for life...

 

Douglas

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 14 Aug 1997 15:14:18 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: in search of western lands

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Penn, Douglas, K wrote:

>

> Burroughs.

>

> am beginning to gear up my search for his work.  Have been trying to lay

> some groundwork for his arrival.  All the posts on this list regarding

> his "western lands" and "letter to JK" have been wonderful.  absolutely

> wonderful.  It's very unfortunate, therefore, that my local bookstore

> doesn't carry these two items.  :-(

>

> So......., in the meantime......., I've been trying to build an

> impression, the connotations, the questions I would bring to these works

>  ---->  Here's a snippet from Isidore Ducasse, Comte de Lautreamont that

> sparked a few connections:

>

> "Go on, keep marching straight ahead.  I condemn you to become a

> wanderer.  I condemn you to remain alone, without a family.  Keep

> walking, until your legs refuse to carry you any further.  Cross the

> desert sands until the ending doom and the stars are swallowed up in

> nothingness.  When you pass by the tiger's lair, he will run headlong

> away, to keep from seeing, as in a mirror, his nature raised up on the

> pedastal of ideal perversity."

>

> (Les Chants de Maldoror, 1868)

> [from _Surrealists & Surrealism_, p21]

>

> =-=-=--=-=-=

>

> and then mixed in, all these stories about tapes being played in cars

> returning from the WSB memorial.  I wonder about the road kill, the

> smelly remains of animals trying to cross the road.  Horrible sight, I

> know.  Silly, inhumane to even mention it.  Too obsess over it, the

> headlights faint glance, the possible swerve, and the possible, minute

> bump in the road.  Perversity?  Alone, without family?  Desert sands?

> Running away, mirrors, and pedastals of the ideal.  Ompholos.

>

> and Carolyn Cassidy's comments about fools only learning from

> themselves.  ??? This is empirical knowledge, yes?  "Doctor, heal they

> self" and all that.  And being able to plumb your own depths/deaths,

> well, who wants to advocate that?  But how about being unable to face

> yourself, being unable to avoid others who have made similar "perverted"

> paths?  I think being able to map out, within personal experience, via

> biography or wisdom, that is a a a.  that is enough, I figure.  Chit

> chat might have been useless, I don't know.  <<probably>>  But work, am

> definately thinking about that.  and Death, death, death does work.

>

> sorry for the meandering, the philosophical babbling.  [[and then

> there's the WSB quote about death laying the seed for life...

>

> Douglas

 

penguin paperback edition $12.95 us

isbn#0-14-009456-3

 

just to ease everybody's traumatized thoughts out there - rest assured

there were no roadkills from my legacy west from lawrence.  not even a

bug splotch.  but several birds successfully relieved themselves on my

little white automobile.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 14 Aug 1997 23:35:46 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Lewis Warsh as a translator of avant-garde chinese poetry

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

THIS IS NOT THE LAST

 

 

This is not the last

that's punished by language.

A new wooden house

is knocked down by a tree.

 

The prisoner

makes traps around himself.

If he's let out alive

he'll take the crimes with him.

 

He has no other shortcut.

A knife between life and death.

Light is cut open

and bent by the lonely sky.

 

The world is as painful as fate.

Words are shackles.

Once he's learned how to confess,

no one can ever defend him.

 

Translated by Wang Ping and Lewis Warsh

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:01:51 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Connie Urgena <connieu@COMPUTIZE.COM>

Subject:      Re: spiritual glimpse (personal request)

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

 

>Subject:     spiritual glimpse (personal request)

>Sent:        8/14/97 11:58 AM

>Received:    8/14/97 12:07 PM

>From:        Shannon L. Stephens, shanstep@CS.ARIZONA.EDU

>Reply-To:    BEAT-L: Beat Generation List, BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

>To:          BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

>

>There is the potential for this message to go non-beat.

>I'm discovering a spiritual apetite that was once squelched by

>overbearing guardians with questionable intentions...

>

>I'm now ready to re-investigate this side of experience and was wondering

>if any listers would point me in the direction of beat or non-beat

>spiritual script... My definition of "spirituality" is

>limitless...perhaps you would be willing to share what you have found

>meaningful...

>

>I'd appreciate starting my search with some input from the list.

>

>Thanks...

>feel free to backchannel if this isn't Listworthy... although I would

>enjoy seeing a beat spirituality thread start on this list....

>

>-shannon (in Tucson, where the heat has somehow prompted my search for

>god...)

 

You might want to think twice about searching for god ...

 

"... the very nature and essence of every religious system is the

impoverishment, enslavement, and

annihilation of humanity for the benefit of divinity.

 

"God being everything, the real world and man are nothing. God being

truth, justice, goodness, beauty,

power, and life, man is falsehood, iniquity, evil, ugliness, impotence,

and death. God being master, man is

the slave. Incapable of finding justice, truth, and eternal life by his

own effort, he can attain them only

through a divine revelation. But whoever says revelation says revealers,

messiahs, prophets, priests, and

legislators inspired by God himself; and these, once recognized as the

representatives of divinity on earth,

as the holy instructors of humanity, chosen by God himself to direct it

in the path of salvation, necessarily

exercise absolute power."

 

--Michael Bakunin, God and State

  complete text at

 

http://www.pitzer.edu/~dward/Anarchist_Archives/bakunin/godandstate/godands

tate_ch1.html

 

Granted, this a pretty hard line view, but upon careful study, it makes

sense.

 

Although you may get a lot of advice from the list, you will ultimately

find the answers within yourself. Douglas offered some very good advice

about reading more biographies. Take a close look at the people you

respect ... what do they value and why? I have recently been working on a

WSB memorial diptych and it has really given me perspective on who I am.

Creativity, brilliance, nerve, individuality ... these are the things I

value and admire, and they are the paths on which I travel.

 

Connie Urgena

connieu@computize.com

 

Web Development, Computize, Inc.

1030 Wirt Road * Suite 400 * Houston TX 77055

713.957.0057 x213 * 713.613.4812 fax

 

http://www.computize.com/

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:25:49 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Double posts

 

Bill:

I tried doing this by backchanneling to you directly but the post came back.

 

We are suddenly get all messages in duplicate.  What can be done? Do we

suddenly have two subscriptions? Please help. There is enough mail without

getting two of everything.

Thanks

Pam

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 14 Aug 1997 07:15:48 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: spiritual glimpse (personal request)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

> Connie Urgena wrote:

>

> You might want to think twice about searching for god ...

>

> "... the very nature and essence of every religious system is the

> impoverishment, enslavement, and

> annihilation of humanity for the benefit of divinity.

>

> "God being everything, the real world and man are nothing. God being

> truth, justice, goodness, beauty,

> power, and life, man is falsehood, iniquity, evil, ugliness, impotence,

> and death. God being master, man is

> the slave. Incapable of finding justice, truth, and eternal life by his

> own effort, he can attain them only

> through a divine revelation. But whoever says revelation says

> revealers,

> messiahs, prophets, priests, and

> legislators inspired by God himself; and these, once recognized as the

> representatives of divinity on earth,

> as the holy instructors of humanity, chosen by God himself to direct it

> in the path of salvation, necessarily

> exercise absolute power."

>

> --Michael Bakunin, God and State

>   complete text at

> http://www.pitzer.edu/~dward/Anarchist_Archives/bakunin/godandstate/godan> ds

> tate_ch1.html

>

> Granted, this a pretty hard line view, but upon careful study, it makes

> sense.

 

It makes sense only if your view of God is limited to that of religious

doctrine. I think that all the big three beat writers believed in God,

though not the God of the Bible, although Kerouac certainly carried

around guilt from early Catholicism.  Most of his writing is, in fact, a

spiritual quest.  I think that if you follow the spiritual theme in beat

literature, you are more likely to find a definition of God as an eternal

oneness in all things, even in man.  In Burroughs even God was more seen

as an originator of things, even if the pre-record universe needed

shaking up a bit. Ginsberg would probably say that if God is truth,

justice, goodness, beauty, and life, then God is in you and in all

things, hence his thought that everything is holy. The text you quoted

seems to put man in the Christian context of needing salvation, of God as

an absolute power.  Maybe God means more an absolute freedom, Burroughs'

universe without order, the ability to see eternity in all things here

and now.  Others can disagree but I think the beats tended to look within

for spiritual glimpses as opposed to looking outward to a church-based

definition.

DC

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:09:57 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>

Subject:      Re: Sign-off

Comments: To: Sherri <love_singing@msn.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

 so now -

- you're back.

 

gotta get off sherri

clean the disaster

have to pack and pad

the baby line

 

it isn't a ciao ,

when i get most...

rofl

 

Douglas

 

 

 

>----------

>From:  Sherri[SMTP:love_singing@msn.com]

>Sent:  Thursday, August 14, 1997 4:57 PM

>To:    Penn, Douglas, K

>Subject:       RE: Sign-off

>

>rofl Douglas - you're the most... gotta get offline now - have to pack and

>clean the pad so it isn't a disaster when i get back.

>

>ciao baby,

>sherri

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 14 Aug 1997 23:54:27 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Subject:      Bye Bye

Comments: To: Stef <Ad_Libitum@msn.com>, HJW II <ArchibaldLeach@msn.com>,

          Stuart Crosby <BRAVES10@msn.com>, Ron Vassel <BlizzardKing@msn.com>,

          Michael Riddle <CENTERLINEDESIGN@msn.com>,

          Cari Who ELSE???? <CittiGirl@msn.com>,

          CURTIS SHIPE <DONDIMARIAN@msn.com>, db <Dee-Bee@msn.com>,

          Don G <FarmCityboy@msn.com>, Homebrook <Homebrook@msn.com>,

          Jason Tinling <JTinlng@msn.com>, Kevin Mathers <KEVMATH@msn.com>,

          Kel Rayner <Manatbar@msn.com>,

          the little people <MarmaladeSkies@msn.com>,

          Kent <NoixDeGolf@msn.com>, Jim B <PBRUEGEL@msn.com>,

          Ask and I might tell you <Peaceful-Warrior2@msn.com>,

          R <ROcean@msn.com>, Blair <Reepoo@msn.com>,

          James Sims <SimbaJim@msn.com>, Sharon <SopAndBass@msn.com>,

          Tom Gummo <TGUMMO@msn.com>, tim/reba <the_saluki_experience@msn.com>,

          Life is a sick joke and I'm the punchline <The_Boogey_Man@msn.com>,

          rico <UNIR1@msn.com>, Mark <Vox_Amicus@msn.com>,

          "e.e. cummings" <What-is_death@msn.com>,

          Tanya Ceccatto <_AngelBaby@msn.com>, Michael <_Prometheus1@msn.com>,

          S Johnson <doc11@msn.com>, Drew Eskenazi <drewesk@msn.com>,

          Robert Lear <king_lear1@msn.com>, x <king_lear1@msn.com>,

          PAUL KOLJESKI <koljeski@msn.com>,

          Silver Surfer <mad-chatter@msn.com>, david simoni <oak123@msn.com>,

          Kash Philips <philkash@msn.com>, Rico Mariani <ricom_ms@msn.com>,

          Robert Eback <rleback@msn.com>, Stephen Baldwin <sabaldwin@msn.com>,

          anniepoo <annh@ccrtc.com>, Doug Penn <dkpenn@oees.com>,

          BigDaddyRico <Engelsguy@aol.com>, Joe Locey <JoePlaceb0@aol.com>,

          Don Green <NYCDBG@aol.com>,

          "S. Coart Johnson" <scoart@mindspring.com>, cj <sjohn111@aol.com>,

          CVEditions@aol.com, Kent Smedley <Kent.Smedley@clorox.com>,

          Arthur Nusbaum <SSASN@aol.com>,

          THEBODYIS1@aol.com, runner711 <babu@electriciti.com>,

          "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@scsn.net>,

          Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>,

          Diane Carter <dcarter@together.net>, jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>,

          Patricia Elliott <pelliott@sunflower.com>,

          RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>, James Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>

 

well, all you darlings, i'm off on my dream trip of a lifetime.  off to

Scotland and England for 2 weeks...  those of you for whom i have addresses, i

will try to send postcards, but please forgive me if i miss you, i've tried to

make sure they're in my address book - but as usual, i'm way short of time...

 

anyway, hope you all spend these last two weeks of the glorious summer

thoroughly enjoying yourselves and i'll see you online in a couple of weeks.

 

Diane - please continue to send me the "Ulysses" posts.  i'm taking it with me

to read, so should keep up with the group...  i'll have access to the internet

in some form at least during the major portion of my trip and if i'm inclined

and have any interesting thoughts will post while on the road.

 

ready to take the high road...

 

hugs & kisses to you all,

sherri

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 14 Aug 1997 19:12:26 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Judith Campbell <boondock@POBOX.COM>

Subject:      Burroughs Obit in Atlanta Creative Loafing

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

http://www.creativeloafing.com/newsstand/current/v_bill.htm

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 14 Aug 1997 20:11:44 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject:      Kerouac Festival Schedule

Comments: To: bfoye@aol.com, jsaint@tiac.net, tongues@tiac.net,

          holladay@woods.uml.edu, fisher@program.com,

          milton1@cliffy.polaraoid.com, wakonda@aol.tiac.net,

          schorr@world.std.com, whalec@boat.bt.co.uk,

          danbarth@mail.yokayo.uusd.k12.ca.us, cusimano@fas.harvard.edu,

          valcomb@aol.com, goslow@phx.com, wxgbc@cunyvm.cuny.edu,

          brooklyn@netcom.com, jhanson@penguin.com, hpark2@aol.com,

          karmacoupe@aol.com, mhemenway@s1.drc.com, kalron@ix.netcom.com,

          BeatRyder@aol.com, dave@scryber.com, radiofreeal@delphi.com,

          news@globe.com, 100120.361@compuserve.com, iht@eurokom.ie,

          nandq@guardian.co.uk, ciweekly@mailnfs0.tiac.net, arts@globe.com,

          mnews@world.std.com, norbull@aol.com, 73174.3344@compuserve.com,

          sfexaminer@aol.com, nlnews@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us, greenwre@apn.com,

          brandx@winnipeg.cbc.ca, bnw@babylon.montreal.qc.ca,

          the_future@tvo.org, iac@bbc-ibar.demon.co.uk, lateshow@pipeline.com,

          foxnet@delphi.com, etv@unlinfo.unl.edu, nightly@nbc.ge.com,

          wesun@clark.net, radio@ohiou.edu, wcvb@aol.com,

          74201.2255@compuserve.com, wmbr-press@media.mit.edu, klmcomm@aol.com,

          general@the-tec.mit.edu, wmbr-press@media.mit.edu, wmfo@tufts.edu,

          allie.cat@genie.com, DawnDr@aol.com, kh14586@acs.appstate.edu,

          skolowra@rykodisc.mhub.com, clv100u@m.BITNET,

          ozart.fpa.odu.edu@mailnfs0.tiac.net, madhatter20@juno.com,

          poetrypiza@aol.com, carter@mvlc.lib.ma.us, myhorseisdead@hotmail.com,

          kathleen_fitzgerald@dbna.com, bookem@pacific.net

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

From:  Mark Hemenway[SMTP:mhemenway@igc.apc.org]

 

10th Annual Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! Festival 2-5 October 1997

Lowell, MA Jack Kerouac Celebrates Lowell

 

THURSDAY 2 OCTOBER

Barbara Concannon-Crete Memorial Poetry Prize- High School Poetry

9:00AM-11:00AM

Lowell High School Poetry Competition for High School Students-

for Information call 508-452-7966

 

Downtown Kerouac Places- Walking Tour

4:30-6:00 PM

Roger Brunelle leads a walking tour of  Kerouac's downtown. Begins

at Middlesex Community College, ends at the Pollard Memorial

Library.

 

Images of  Kerouac '97- Reception and Photography Exhibition

6:00PM- 8:00PM

Whistler House Museum of Art,  243 Worthen Street Open exhibition

of photography inspired by Jack Kerouac or the Beats. Entries

welcome. Deadline 12 September. Co-sponsored by the Whistler House

Museum of Art, 508-452-7641.

 

Jack Kerouac Literary Prize Award

7:00PM

Whistler House Museum of Art, 243 Worthen Street Presentation of

the 9th Annual Jack Kerouac Literary Prize. The prize is sponsored

by The Estate of Jack and Stella Kerouac, Lowell Celebrates

Kerouac!, Inc. and  Middlesex Community College.

 

Dr Sax Nights- Walking Tours

8:00PM-10:00PM

Roger Brunelle leads a walking tour of Kerouac's Pawtucketville.

Tour begins at MacDonald's Mammoth Rd, ends at  the Spaulding

House,  Pawtucket Blvd. for discussion. Rain or shine.

 

Friends and Music

10:00PM-12:00PM

Greek Band, Greek food and Lowell Poets. The Athenian Corner

Restaurant, 207 Market Street.

 

FRIDAY 3 OCTOBER

3rd Annual Beat Literature Symposium

8:00AM-5:00PM

O'Leary Library, Room 222, South Campus, UMASS-Lowell 9:00AM-12:00

Noon - Presentation of Papers 2:00PM - Keynote Presentation by Ann

Douglas, Columbia University 3:00PM-5:00 - Panel discussions

Leading scholars present original research on beat authors,

writing techniques and cultural phenomena. No charge.  For

information and pre-registration, call 508-934-2446. Sponsored by

the English Department and the Department of Continuing Education,

UMASS-Lowell.

 

Mystic Jack- Walking Tour

5:00PM-6:00PM

Begins and ends at St. Louis Church, Centralville. Tour by Roger

Brunelle.

 

Memorial Mass for Jack and Stella Kerouac

6:00PM-7:00PM

St. Louis de France Church, Centralville

 

Listen to the Beat- Readings

8:00PM-10:00PM

The Parkway Cafe,  350 Market Street Poets Vincent Ferrini,

Patricia Smith, Michael Brown, Lawrence Carradini, and Meg Smith.

Singer song-writer,  Bob Martin present and evening of performance

poetry and music.  Suggested donation $3.00.

 

Friends Music and Lowell Poets

10:00PM-12:00PM

Park Way Cafe

 

SATURDAY 4 OCTOBER

Nashua - Bus Tour

RESERVATIONS REQUIRED

9:00AM-1:00PM

9:00AM- Depart from Lowell Barnes and Noble. Reservations can be

made in person, or call 508-458-3939.  9:30AM- Depart Nashua, NH

Barnes and Noble. NH. For reservations, call Laura Eanes at

603-897-0777.  A bus tour of Kerouac places in Nashua, NH.

 

Small Press Book Fair

10:00AM-4:00PM

Memorial Hall, Pollard Library A sampling of local presses and

Kerouac material. Co-sponsored by the Pollard Memorial Library and

Friends of the Library.

 

Commemorative at the Commemorative- Honoring Jack Kerouac and

Allen Ginsberg 11:00AM-12:00Noon The Kerouac Commemorative, Bridge

and French Streets

 

Strictly Kerouac- Dance

12:30-1:00 PM

The Courtyard at the Market Street Visitor's Center, Lowell

National Historical Park Jan Zwadney and a Feast of Friends

interprets Kerouac in dance, music and word.

 

Allen Ginsberg and Friends: A Photographic Remembrance

1:00PM- 3:00PM Brush Art Gallery, Market Street Visitors Center

Photographs by Gordon Ball, Elsa Dorfman, Gerard Malanga and Fred

McDarrah. Exhibition open from September 25 - November 16th.

 

Gallery Talk- Gordon Ball

1:30PM Brush Art Gallery, Market Street Visitor Center

Photographer and Ginsberg editor, Gordon Ball talks about

photographing Allen Ginsberg.

 

Poetry at the Rainbow Cafe 4:00PM-6:00PM Rainbow Cafe, Cabot

Street

 

Anne Waldman and Friends- A Tribute to Allen Ginsberg

8:00PM-10:00PM Smith Baker Auditorium, Merrimack Street-

Admission- $7.00 Anne Waldman, renowned poet, performer, and

editor leads a tribute to the Dharma Lion. James Cameron on

saxophone.

 

Music Friends and Lowell Poets 10:00PM -12:00 PM The Downstairs

Cafe, Merrimack Street

 

SUNDAY 5 OCTOBER The Jack Kerouac Tour- Bus Tour 9:30AM-11:30AM

RESERVATIONS REQUIRED Departs from  Middlesex Community College,

Merrimack Street Bus tour of Kerouac's Lowell. Call 508-452-7966

for reservations. Please give name, phone number and number of

places reserved.  Words and Music- Open Mic

1:00PM-3:00PM The Coffee Mill, Palmer Street.

 

Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!, Inc. is a non-profit corporation

dedicated to the celebration, enjoyment and study of Jack Kerouac

and his writings. Whenever possible, events are free, however,

donations are gratefully accepted for continued support of the

annual Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! Festival.. To make a donation,

or to find out more about Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!, Inc., write:

P.O. Box 1111, Lowell, MA 01853.

 

Before he died at age 47, Jack Kerouac published 24 books

chronicling the lives and adventures of the post war generation in

America. The raw energy and beauty of his prose established a new

standard in American literature. Jack Kerouac was born, raised and

remained a native of Lowell throughout his life. 5 of his novels

take place in Lowell, and the city is mentioned in virtually every

one of his books. His descriptions of Lowell are remarkable for

their beauty, power and timelessness. Through them, millions of

readers have come to know Lowell as a universal hometown.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:33:18 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>

Subject:      The sword-stick of truth and justice...

Comments: cc: Gerald Houghton <houghtong@globalnet.co.uk>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

More from G. Houghton

regarding WSB

anybody out there feel like doing a little typin/scannin??

 

Douglas

 

 

<< start of forwarded material >>

 

 

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 23:35:46 +0100

To: runner <babu@electriciti.com>

From: houghtong@globalnet.co.uk (Gerald Houghton)

Subject: The sword-stick of truth and justice...

 

'New Musical Express' ran a double-page obit for WSB yesterday,

concentrating in particular on his connections with music. And a very fine

piece it was, not least because it made the point about him being funny that

so many have missed. It was topped out by a surprisingly good interview with

Bono of U2 about meeting/working with the man.

 

Nice pictures too.

 

And Tower Records book dept in London ran an ad in 'Time Out' magazine

saying farewell to the man. Didn't even say "come and buy all his books

posthumously" either. Wonders never cease.

 

This Saturday night (16th), BBC2 television in the UK are repeating their 90

minute 'Arena' special about WSB as a tribute.

 

 

 

Gerald Houghton

e-mail: houghtong@globalnet.co.uk

The Edge magazine homepage:

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~houghtong/edge1.htm

 

 

<< end of forwarded material >>

 

 

 

 

http://www.electriciti.com/babu/        |   0   |

step aside, and let the man go thru     |  { -  |

        ---->  let the man go thru      |  /\   |

super bon-bon (soul coughing)           =========

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:41:16 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>

Subject:      Re: Burroughs Obit in Atlanta Creative Loafing

In-Reply-To:  <3.0.32.19970814191222.00a12c28@ellijay.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 4:12 PM -0700 8/14/97, Judith Campbell wrote:

 

 

> http://www.creativeloafing.com/newsstand/current/v_bill.htm

 

this WSB synopsis is a real send up.  Slams Burroughs for just about

everything except for humor and a good reading voice.  Oh, and Naked Lunch.

Author liked that one, the rest are shit apparently.  Will gladly post or

forward as needed.

 

Douglas

 

 

http://www.electriciti.com/babu/        |   0   |

step aside, and let the man go thru     |  { -  |

        ---->  let the man go thru      |  /\   |

super bon-bon (soul coughing)           =========

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 14 Aug 1997 23:01:51 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: PLEASE MR. JOHNSON

Comments: To: love_singing@msn.com, jwhite333@sprintmail.com, jamesstauffer

          <stauffer@pacbell.net>

 

Gots to get some nice mail to you i worked on today. still on trip. dance

till 2-4 in the a.m to Luthur Allison, Elmore James and Big Joe Turner. Over

and over again baby, that old and backporch slide once in a while a good

blues sob with 'em good  then put on my old lps to send messages. Chet Baker

singing old junk gone saddle oxfords and 48 ford conv. juck seater girl

heartbreack and now its more heart to break. and  put on James Carr's "At the

Dark End of the Street" and some funk great earl hooker. even some george

jones oldies. that's really booze bawlin'

 

But every night. I wear those cd's out..can't stop...plus my baby's gone. the

one who drove me to Kansas and my other, Sherri, has hopped that plane and

gone.

Please Mr. Johnson....don't play the blues soo sad.

Spark the spirit

luv

cp

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 14 Aug 1997 23:41:27 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Lowell Kerouac organizers

 

I have ended this kind of crap! It went out with greasy funded french fries.

Who wants to see Kerouac's Lowell in that kind of crowd, anyway?

C. Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 14 Aug 1997 23:58:02 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Please Mr. Johnson

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Well, Charles, a wise sage named Jimi Hendrix once said:

 

"loneliness is such a drag"

 

"Well the morining is dead,

And the day is too"

 

but i say,

 

when you wake up in the moring,

and there ain't nothing you can do,

you know you got

dem Robert Johnson, dead shrimps, no ride, pass me by, on the riverside,

lien on my body, mortgage on my soul, hellhound on my trail, hot tamale,

chocolate malt, rosedale, no body seemed to know me, beatl blues!!!

 

Our thoughts and/or prayers are with you beatl blues buddy Richard.

Wish I could be there for that bag pipe jam.  Not to mention the old

band shell.  Should I bring my SG, or the Yamaha acoustic?

 

Peace to WSB, peace to Luther, and peace to all of us.

 

Think maybe Neal and Jack are diggin on Jimi, Luther and Train wailing

throughout the universe.  I figure Bill is just taking it all in.  I

guess they might let Miles sit in, eh?

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 02:41:26 +0000

Reply-To:     letabor@cruzio.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Comments:     Authenticated sender is <letabor@mail.cruzio.com>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      The Suedeutsche Zeitung obit in English, close, not perfect tran

 

From:                 Self <Leon>

To:                     BEAT-L@CNYVM>CNY>EDU

Subject:           The Second German obit approximately translated

Send reply to:    letabor@cruzio.com

Date sent:            Fri, 15 Aug 1997 02:15:15

 

 What a hatchet  job! Note the title "Bill the Ripper". Her

 Winkler

says that Burroughs was a crazy man, or maybe

just an american.  Here comes another pseudo translation. Glad

to oblige Fred. Receiving thanks from Bill Gargan alone made it

worth doing. I am serious, Bill.

 

BTW some of you Beat Heads will be interested that the Cassady

home on Bancroft in Los Gatos,  ( I also lived there with them

in 62 and 63),  the house that Neil bought with the Railroad

accident money, was demolished today. Unfortunately John learned

about it only yesterday. It might have been another wake

occasion for us around here. Here is the Sueddeutsche Zeitung:

 

 

Bill The Ripper

 

At the death of America's prop holyman (?)

William S. Burroughs

 

Dear children, please do not imitate! According to eyewitness

reports it was only a party game. But while in the bowl proved

to be peyote and marijuana, Burroughs planted an apple upon the

head of his wife, played William Tell and shot. The appel

survived the play but Joan Vollmer was dead on the spot. Halfway

sensible people would now leave alone the fixing and the kief

and never again touch a weapon, but William Burroughs blew

himself up (?) further, what could be gotten with psychedelics.

In the introduction to Naked lunch (1959) he spoke of an

addiction that lasted 45 years; whoever visited him in the last

years had to first of all shoot tin cans. The man was plain to

see crazy.

 

Or American. Here he stood in 1990 on the stage of the Thalia

theater in Hamburg near Robert Wilson and Lou Reed, desperate in

his bookkeeper suit, a  shrieveled grandfather, wrinkled and

scraggy to the smallest knuckle, no longer from this world, but

paced in his bodily shape (?), a funny pillar (?) of the

avantgarde, who  had survived everything. His Musical Black

Rider was performed, a free defense (?) story - and again a

deadly bullet from love.

 

William Seward Burroughs, born 1914 in St. Louis as a son of

manufacturers, was really born for better things. Like his

landsman T. S. Elliot a quarter century before he went to

Harvard to study, then to Europe, but during that time he turned

around and made his enmity with the nightmare  America. He

presented himself one nice day to the FBI and wanted to become a

secret agent. They sensibly turned him away. In response

(substitution) he became addicted to drugs and lived alone in

permanent fear of the police. One like Burroughs was born for

the great American Paranoia.

 

With the obstinance of his ancestors - these money earners and

strict moralist pillars of the community -, with the same

obstinacy Burroughs sought out every mania of this earthy (?)

world , lounged around in Tangiers, where he didn't tolerate the

sun, wrote even though he didn't know how and from what he would

make a living, he wrote in an intoxicated fit, like a maniac.

 

They are pretty hard to read, his books, cut up, he broke up his

texts into pieces until they were totally incomprehensible.

Repeatedly gathered anew  and scattered again right away. But

did so much insanity need  any method altogether? It should be

"pure meat", wrote to him his friend Alen Ginsberg in the book

"without symbolic sause". Woe to anyone who sees symbols in his

thousand-feeted, half animals and three quarter monsters!

Everything flesh from America's flesh, the plain truth, as

Burroughs saw it in madness. "I am", he assures, " I am only a

recording tool."

 

Roland Barthes harped extensively over the zero point (freezing

point?), where  literature in 1960 ostensibly found itself,  but

Burroughs didn't just describe that point, instead he pricked it

all the time, undertook constantly new experiments, he tore up

himself and his texts. The writer in his best quality as

slasher, withdrawal (drug addiction) treatments were then

necessary, one time by Dr. Wilhelm Reich, then by L. Ron

Hubbard, but neither the orgon machine nor the scientology

helped. And so he found himself after two wifes and one son

back at the pleasures of youth, to the memory of the first

stolen grips in strangers'  undewrwear.  Against so much life

the work does not hold up, for the one reason alone, because

after the early books it became method. But from Velvet

Underground because of Patti Smith until Kurt Cobain they

followed him - and wasn't he holy (a saint?)

 

In New York he entrenched himself in his small room in the

Bowery, four-fold bolted to protect himself from the tramps and

junkies outside, who could possibly overpower the old infirm

man, while he inside surrounded by swords, revolvers and porno

notebooks, painted how it was, to be overtaken by these wild

fellows.

 

In the end he returned to the middle west, to his xenophobes,to

the god fearing fellow citizens, fanatic like them and no less

paranoid. They knew precisely that the communists (alternatively

the jews, the catholics) poisoned the drinking water, or that

the CIA bred the aids virus in order to mess up all of humanity.

Burroughs collected all these stories and weighed them in his

heart. Then he shot again at his tin cans.

 

But please, dear children, not to immitate at home! Saturday

the good american William S. Burroughs, in Lawrence (Kansas),

at  the age of 83 years, died.

 

 

Willi Winkler

 

 

leon

Leon Tabory

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 05:43:29 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Please Mr. Johnson

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

>

> Well, Charles, a wise sage named Jimi Hendrix once said:

>

> "loneliness is such a drag"

>

> "Well the morining is dead,

> And the day is too"

>

> but i say,

>

> when you wake up in the moring,

> and there ain't nothing you can do,

> you know you got

> dem Robert Johnson, dead shrimps, no ride, pass me by, on the riverside,

> lien on my body, mortgage on my soul, hellhound on my trail, hot tamale,

> chocolate malt, rosedale, no body seemed to know me, beatl blues!!!

>

> Our thoughts and/or prayers are with you beatl blues buddy Richard.

> Wish I could be there for that bag pipe jam.  Not to mention the old

> band shell.  Should I bring my SG, or the Yamaha acoustic?

>

> Peace to WSB, peace to Luther, and peace to all of us.

>

> Think maybe Neal and Jack are diggin on Jimi, Luther and Train wailing

> throughout the universe.  I figure Bill is just taking it all in.  I

> guess they might let Miles sit in, eh?

> --

> Bentz

> bocelts@scsn.net

>

> http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

 

lets not forget the "i followed her to the station with suitcase in my

hand - love in vain" blues . . .

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 09:52:33 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "P.A.Maher" <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      New!!!! The Kerouac Quarterly Web Page

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Well. . .back from a trip to the Long Island Vineyards I have finally

finished the second Kerouac Quarterly and a brand new web page. This page

will highlight the latest goings-on in the Kerouac world . . .things to look

for in the future. Book reviews on Some of the Dharma, latest publishing

ventures, and whatever pops up in the future. If anyone has any news please

let us know here at the quarterly for all to see. Also, details about our

second issue. . .50 pp. in all. The Kerouac Quarterly can be visited at:

 

http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/page1.html

 

Thanks, and bookmark the page! I will try to keep this as updated as possible.

Paul of TKQ. . .

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 08:27:30 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>

Subject:      WSB Journals

Comments: cc: dan@pint.com

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

it's always reassuring to know

that if I want the latest WSB info

I only need be subscribed to the

patti smith list

 

props to Dan Whitworth for da post

-Douglas

 

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

 

From: Dan Whitworth <dan@pint.com>

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 13:59:05 -0700 (PDT)

Subject: WSB journals

 

The current New Yorker (Aug. 18 issue) features 2 pages of excerpts from

William Burrough's journals -- various entries from this spring up to August

1, the day of his heart attack. (And no, it doesn't suddenly trail off at

the end...) Plus Mapplethorpe's portrait of WSB in profile, eyes closed,

hands grasped (from mid or  late '80s).

 

Now we wait for the inevitable Rolling Stone tribute, I suppose.

 

Later,

Dan W

 

 

http://www.electriciti.com/babu/        |   0   |

step aside, and let the man go thru     |  { -  |

        ---->  let the man go thru      |  /\   |

super bon-bon (soul coughing)           =========

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 08:31:59 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>

Subject:      Re: Please Mr. Johnson

In-Reply-To:  <33F432D1.58FF@midusa.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 3:43 AM -0700 8/15/97, RACE --- wrote:

 

 

> R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

> >

> > Well, Charles, a wise sage named Jimi Hendrix once said:

> >

> > "loneliness is such a drag"

 

<snip>

 

> lets not forget the "i followed her to the station with suitcase in my

> hand - love in vain" blues . . .

 

 

yeah, and how about the

"waiting by the telephone, toothpaste in my mouth blues

she ain't ever gonna call, might as well rinse blues

might as well shave, might as well shower

come on momma, give us a call blues

 

 

 

 

anybody interested in doing a tape swap??  David?

 

>

> david rhaesa

> salina, Kansas

 

Douglas  [[headed to Lala tonight, to see my gal

 

 

http://www.electriciti.com/babu/        |   0   |

step aside, and let the man go thru     |  { -  |

        ---->  let the man go thru      |  /\   |

super bon-bon (soul coughing)           =========

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:45:11 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>

Subject:      Theory about Burroughs death

In-Reply-To:  <l03020900b01a25534c32@[208.193.147.146]>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Heard an interesting theory about Burroughs death.  Specifically, it has

been theorized that he lost his will to live, because the great love of

his life (at least in his mind) was Allen Ginsberg and Allen died a few

months earlier.  And so he lost the will to live.

 

If you ever read Burroughs "Selected Letters", most of it was

correspondence between Burroughs and Ginsberg, and it is plainly clear

that Burroughs was obsessed with Ginsberg.  Living in exile in Tangiers

in the 50's, Burroughs was lonely and isolated and fell in love with

Allen through a long correspondence.  He returned to the states and was

intending to go live in San Francisco and start a life with Allen, when

Allen finally made it clear that he was *not* in love him.  Apparently,

through the years, Allen had to deal at various times with Burroughs

obsession over him.

 

Anyway its not inconceivable, given the timing of both men's deaths,that

in some way, Burroughs was still in love with Allen at the timeof his

death.  That he felt such a strong connection with Allen, that when Allen

died, there was an emptiness he couldnt deal with and he was finally

ready to die himself.

 

Perhaps, inside that cynical old body, was the heart of a hopeless

romantic who never stopped longing for the love he could never have.

 

 

RJW

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:04:22 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "P.A.Maher" <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      The Kerouac Quarterly Page updated !!!!

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

The Kerouac Quarterly Page has been updated to include details on the sale

of Edie Kerouac Parker's personal Beat library from her estate.

 

Have a ball y'all!!!!

 

Bookmark to:

 

http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/page1.html

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:49:58 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: Theory about Burroughs death

In-Reply-To:  Message of Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:45:11 -0400 from

              <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>

 

It's real romantic but I don't think it's true.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 10:53:27 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Please Mr. Johnson

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

runner wrote:

>

> At 3:43 AM -0700 8/15/97, RACE --- wrote:

>

> > R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

> > >

> > > Well, Charles, a wise sage named Jimi Hendrix once said:

> > >

> > > "loneliness is such a drag"

>

> <snip>

>

> > lets not forget the "i followed her to the station with suitcase in my

> > hand - love in vain" blues . . .

>

> yeah, and how about the

> "waiting by the telephone, toothpaste in my mouth blues

> she ain't ever gonna call, might as well rinse blues

> might as well shave, might as well shower

> come on momma, give us a call blues

>

> anybody interested in doing a tape swap??  David?

>

> >

> > david rhaesa

> > salina, Kansas

>

> Douglas  [[headed to Lala tonight, to see my gal

>

> http://www.electriciti.com/babu/        |   0   |

> step aside, and let the man go thru     |  { -  |

>         ---->  let the man go thru      |  /\   |

> super bon-bon (soul coughing)           =========

 

i was talking another robert johnson song.  tape swaps???  hmm.  i don't

have dual cassette technology.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:03:59 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Theory about Burroughs death

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Bill Gargan wrote:

>

> It's real romantic but I don't think it's true.

 

More likely that Fletch's death Affected him.  i believe that some

research suggests more than merely a romantic connection of pets to

health.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 10:07:09 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>

Organization: Calgary Free-Net

Subject:      patti smith list name, etc

In-Reply-To:  <BEAT-L%1997081511505586@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

hey yall

i was wondering if anyone out there might be able to send me some info on

how to subscribe to the patti smith list that i read so much about in

these parts. sounds like something i should check out & if anyone out

there can help i would really appreciate it. (then again i already receive

enuf mail to keep me busy, ah well)

yrs

derek

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 09:22:45 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>

Subject:      Re: patti smith list name, etc

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

ha, my fiendish plan has worked...  ;-)

but of course, I don't have the subscription info here at work

but if you head over to:

 

        http://www.oceanstar.com/patti/

 

you should find all you need to know

(check under mailing list, I believe)

there's also a site-specific search engine

and while I haven't done this yet,

one should be able to conduct beat-specific

searches, Douglas

 

>----------

>From:  Derek A. Beaulieu[SMTP:dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA]

>Sent:  Friday, August 15, 1997 9:07 AM

>To:    BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

>Subject:       patti smith list name, etc

>

>hey yall

>i was wondering if anyone out there might be able to send me some info on

>how to subscribe to the patti smith list that i read so much about in

>these parts. sounds like something i should check out & if anyone out

>there can help i would really appreciate it. (then again i already receive

>enuf mail to keep me busy, ah well)

>yrs

>derek

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 01:08:31 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Theory about Burroughs death

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

RACE --- wrote:

>

> More likely that Fletch's death Affected him.  i believe that some

> research suggests more than merely a romantic connection of pets to

> health.

>

> david rhaesa

> salina, Kansas

 

You know I thought the same exact thing when I heard Fletch had died a

couple of weeks before.

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 10:14:58 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>

Subject:      Re: Theory about Burroughs death

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

there's more mystery than we thought

deep caverns of pets and animals

sucking silently

oh deep tendrils, mmm sweet chastity

pent-up frustrations

harbor dwells

 

how many nights would I have died

without my loyal pets

<ahem> by my side?

 

 

 

I know my grandmother, when granddad died, lost her will to live.  "No

more salt," we'd say.  "No more coffee," we'd say.  "Take your vitamins,

do your exercises," we'd say.  And then that look in her eyes.  She

wanted to die.  Oh, I know that look.  A succinct haiku that said fuck

you, I'm dyin.

 

We all cried.  Who can say if this happened to WSB?  I know I tried to

say that I loved her.  That I'd be there for her.  She didn't listen.

She died.  Grandma, I miss you...

 

Douglas

 

>----------

>From:  Diane Carter[SMTP:dcarter@TOGETHER.NET]

>Sent:  Friday, August 15, 1997 1:08 AM

>To:    BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

>Subject:       Re: Theory about Burroughs death

>

>RACE --- wrote:

>>

>> More likely that Fletch's death Affected him.  i believe that some

>> research suggests more than merely a romantic connection of pets to

>> health.

>>

>> david rhaesa

>> salina, Kansas

>

>You know I thought the same exact thing when I heard Fletch had died a

>couple of weeks before.

>DC

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:08:31 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Shannon L. Stephens" <shanstep@CS.ARIZONA.EDU>

Subject:      Searching

In-Reply-To:  <33F31314.2157@together.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

My thanks to all who have taken the time to give me a little info as I

start an investigation that I hope continues for a very long time.

 

Many of you have taken a minute to share things that you have been drawn

to. That is exactly what I was looking for. Diane's post re: the

spiritual "motivations" of the beats is primarily why I shared my

question with the list.

 

My search for inhanced spirituality (and isn't it a shame that words do

very little to elaborate on what that may mean) is not limited to my

finding a "religion" in which to drown my sense of self. I have already

been exposed to that and in fact, that type of education in early life

separated me from any spiritual pursuits thus far.

 

I don't like using terms that seem to over define what I'm doing. I have

reached a point where I want to feel more alive... different levels. I've

had musical suggestions as well as text. All of things make up the

components of what I believe to be a full sensual life. Hell, if someone

suggested a great restaurant I'd give that a thought too. Nobody can

place someone's hand in the grasp of "god", but people on this list have

a knack for openness which I believe to be first and foremost the most

important aspect of spirituality. It's a search, a process. Thanks again

to those of you with the heart to share the two cents.

 

My question helped me to devour a bunch of pages of on the road last

night. Maybe I am becomming more open as well.

 

-shannon (nights thick with rain and electricity, temperatures going

down, expectations for a desert colorless yet joyful fall ahead...)

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 14:22:00 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         FIRST_Rebecca LAST_ Last <Becca91894@AOL.COM>

Subject:      see ya later

 

i hope i'm doing this right.

 

unsubcribe beat-L__rebecca last

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 14:34:02 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Subject:      Re: Theory about Burroughs death

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.970815113103.11569A-100000@cap1.capaccess.org>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, Richard Wallner wrote:

 

> Heard an interesting theory about Burroughs death.  Specifically, it has

> been theorized that he lost his will to live, because the great love of

> his life (at least in his mind) was Allen Ginsberg and Allen died a few

> months earlier.  And so he lost the will to live.

 

Recently lost one of his cats, too, though I suspect others more close to

him will have more to say on this subject. In retrospect, I do think it odd

that I chose a sample of his ("When death becomes you...") as part of my

contribution to a net-based tape loop project going on in the weeks just

before his death. All those unsuspecting tape recorders playing this

message, just before he died -- hmm, I wonder if he would have gotten a kick

out of that.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:55:10 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: see ya later

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 02:22 PM 8/15/97 -0400, you wrote:

>i hope i'm doing this right.

>

>unsubcribe beat-L__rebecca last

>

>

 

No.

 

I believe you need to send it to listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu

 

also don't put in the __

 

you'd send

 

unsubscribe beat-l Rebecca Last

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 15:00:37 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Burroughs and Ginsberg

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Regarding the speculation about Burroughs loving Ginsberg, the diary entries

in the New Yorker offer some interesting grist for this mill.

 

May 5, Monday

Allen died April 5, 1997.

        Is it not fine to

        Dance and Sing

        While the bell of

        Death do ring?

        Turn on the toe

        Sing out Hey Nanny Noo

If I should die think only this of me. That there's some corner of a foreign

field that is forever: Tangier; Mexico, D.F.; St. Louis, Mo.;...........

 

So why bother? You are old, Father William. Why stand on your head?

 

June 4, Wednesday

"J'aime ces types vicieux, qu'ici montrent la bite." I like the vicious

types who show the cock here. Anonymous, outside pissoir in Paris.

 

"Is it not fine to dance and sing while the bells of death do ring to turn

on toe and sing hey nanny noo." Yes I love life in all its variety but at

last the bell ringeth to eventide.

 

        No mention of Fletch....who was one of his cats?

 

                Antoine

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

     "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"

                        -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:34:06 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: see ya later

 

----------

From:   FIRST_Rebecca LAST_ Last[SMTP:Becca91894@AOL.COM]

Sent:   Friday, August 15, 1997 11:22 AM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        see ya later

 

i hope i'm doing this right.

 

unsubcribe beat-L__rebecca last

.-

 

 

 

begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT

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M`@````(``@`!!) &`#0!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/

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M1V5N97)A=&EO;B!,:7-T`%--5% `0D5!5"U,0$-53EE632Y#54Y9+D5$50``

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M`$ `!S"@SA5&JJF\`4 `"#"@SA5&JJF\`1X`/0`!````!0```%)%.B `````

"9L<`

`

end

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:29:52 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Please Mr. Johnson

Comments: To: jwhite333@sprintmail.com

 

Thanks Bentz

Read yr post at the right moment. thanks. Robert Johnson always there.'ve

been playing that old bobbie=sox juncky, Chet Baker's songs over and over

today. "there will never be another you,"  "I get along without you very well

(of course I do)"... and "My Buddy" My Funny Valentine."  I'm trying to kick

everything, today. Even Love. I've been drinking a bile cat's claw tea bark

and diet coke mixture. Not as bad as peyote juice though. The idea is to have

some nasty to remind me of the toxins i put in my system. I'm also drinking

"Ensure" which Beat-l member Mike supplied me (many). It tastes like

decontaminated, processes and sweetened baby shit! The idea of all this taste

and stomach distress, is, I guess, so my heart will direct its pity to my

guts!!!!!!!   Now there's one for you. Anyway, I decided only a  aged

suicidal maniac would listen to Chet Baker over and over, so I'll find my

Robert Johnson. Or maybe Mississippi Joe Callicot.."You don't know my

mind"..Ya

 

Charles Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:55:35 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Sun Lao Tze

 

By God that Tuscon heat is enough to do it every time! I used to take  Peyote

there in my ritual northest of town out toward that facade cowboy town. Walk

out there barefoot an lie on a rock. The stone is cold and moist in

its manifest part, and in its hidden part is hot and dry

Seek the coldness of the moon and you shall find the heat of the sun.

C. Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 17:00:05 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Please Mr. Johnson

 

In a message dated 97-08-15 06:45:39 EDT, you write:

 

<< lets not forget the "i followed her to the station with suitcase in my

 hand - love in vain" blues . . .

  >>

Ah yes,  and "I keep folding up inside just like the clothes I'm folding"

-George Jones

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 17:05:23 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Please Mr. Johnson

 

"Every time I pack ,I doulbe up inside just like the clothes I'm folding/"

was the line from George Jones

C. Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 17:17:39 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Please Mr. Johnson

 

In a message dated 97-08-15 13:00:15 EDT, you write:

 

<<

 anybody interested in doing a tape swap??  David? >>

Oh yeah..why didn't you tell me in lawrence, and i'd have dumped a whole

bunch of never to be assembled again rarities.. cp

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 17:22:32 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: in search of western lands

 

The number of dead animals on the road is something i've been remorsing with

too, it's a sign

as far as C.C. right on. Finkout.

C. Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 17:48:27 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Re: Please Mr. Johnson

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Pamela Beach Plymell wrote:

 

> Thanks Bentz

> Read yr post at the right moment. thanks. Robert Johnson always

> there.'ve

> been playing that old bobbie=sox juncky, Chet Baker's songs over and

> over

> today. "there will never be another you,"  "I get along without you

> very well

> (of course I do)"... and "My Buddy" My Funny Valentine."  I'm trying

> to kick

> everything, today. Even Love. I've been drinking a bile cat's claw tea

> bark

> and diet coke mixture. Not as bad as peyote juice though. The idea is

> to have

> some nasty to remind me of the toxins i put in my system. I'm also

> drinking

> "Ensure" which Beat-l member Mike supplied me (many). It tastes like

> decontaminated, processes and sweetened baby shit! The idea of all

> this taste

> and stomach distress, is, I guess, so my heart will direct its pity to

> my

> guts!!!!!!!   Now there's one for you. Anyway, I decided only a  aged

> suicidal maniac would listen to Chet Baker over and over, so I'll find

> my

> Robert Johnson. Or maybe Mississippi Joe Callicot.."You don't know my

> mind"..Ya

>

> Charles Plymell

 

 Charles:

 

I must say that I enjoy your company, even on the www.  I hope to visit

with you one day.  But, I will bring my own food!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Try

some Colt 45 or Country Club Malt liquor.  That will knock it out, and

cold.  Me, I take a Bud or a Beck's these days.

 

Going down the road feeling bad,

Going down the road feeling bad,

Going down the road feeling bad, Lord Lord,

Ain't gonna be treated thisaway.

 

She can break in on a dollar most anywhere she goes

 

And from the Alpha of the Allman Brothers:

 

I fell like I been tied to the whipping post,

Good lord I feel like I'm dying.

 

And from the Omega of the Allman Brothers:

 

Nobody left to run with anymore.

 

Figure you can feel both of those blues.  Take a listen,

 

And damn, how can your system tolerate that much Chet.  He was a sad sad

case, beautiful and could play, but sad, sad sad.

 

Allmans one more time:

 

Just one more morning,

I've got to wake up with the blues,

Get my self together,

And put on my walking shoes,

Cause I hunger

For those dreams, I've never seen.

 

And to my main man Van Morrison:

 

Call me up in dream land,

Radio to me Sam,

Get your message to me

Any way you can,

Never to grow old,

On the saxaphone,

 

In my own words:

 

Death's Hand is a Loser

(For Patricia and Charles who have lost a friend.)

(For Richard who has lost a blues man.)

 

 

When the cards are dealt,

Death's hand is a loser.

And loss is with us.

Beyond this we can not say.

But have you seen death alive?

No. The losing hand.

And what is that.

It is loss.

And what is that.

Loss is gone,

But you're here.

Loss is selfish,

What you're missing.

Loss is true,

What you need.

Loss is false,

The illusion.

Loss is hurt,

Part is gone.

Loss is maddness,

Unresolved, broken.

Loss is death,

Part of you too.

Loss is gain,

Winter blends to Spring.

Loss is broken,

Knowing feelings never come again.

Loss is us,

Born to die to birth again.

A touch, a glance,

A calm reassurance.

A certainty, now uncertain.

A feeling spinning thorough cosmic dust.

Creating, playing, play on.

Play on jazz man,

Play on blues man,

Play on Chet,

Rave on Charles,

Rave on madman,

Rave on Charles,

Rave on Angel,

Rave on Buddy Holly,

Rave on P,

Rave on sunflowers,

Rave on cats,

Rave on James,

Rave on Bill,

Rave on Allen,

Rave on Jack,

Rave on Neal,

Rave on Junkie,

Rave on Junky,

Rave on Bull Lee,

Rave on Sherri,

Rave on James,

Rave on Charles,

Rave on Arthur,

Rave on Roland Kirk,

Rave on Richard,

Rave on Luther,

Rave on Miles,

Rave on Train,

Rave on Jesus,

Rave on Judas,

Rave, rave, rave, rave, rant, rave, rave, rave, rave,

Rave on me.

 

 

 

Take care,

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:02:55 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Eric Blanco <Chimera@WEBTV.NET>

Subject:      Re: Please Mr. Johnson

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV)

 

          Hello Bentz:

somewhere in between reading your last

post ("Death's hand is a loser...") and

listening to Blonde On Blonde I managed

to see a bright side to....things.

 

          Here's to a great weekend-to

you and everyone on the list.

 

                                               Chimera

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 15:04:10 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>

Subject:      Re: in search of western lands

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

C wrote:

 

><<The number of dead animals on the road is something i've been remorsing

>with too, it's a sign

>as far as C.C. right on. Finkout.

>>

 

you're being poetic cryptic again, Charles.  p l e a s e translate.

 

the C.C. part reminds me of broken headlights...

 

 

>> C. Plymell

 

Douglas

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:17:44 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>

Organization: Calgary Free-Net

Subject:      ferling, etc

In-Reply-To:  <c=US%a=_%p=OEES%l=SD-MAIL-970815220410Z-1943@sd-mail.sd.oees.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

yall

i was just wondering if anyone knew when ferlinghetti's newest book of

poems was due (wasnt there some talk about him writing a book of poems

that was a "reply" (or something along those lines) to _a coney island of

the mind_?) also- is he witing or solely involved with painting/sketching

(which i understand he's emphasizing these days) and running city lights?

thanks for info, etc

bahoo.

yrs

derek

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:14:29 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Carl Jung prophesy c/o Burroughs

 

from Albany, NY September, 1909

 

Everything is too big, too immeasurable.  Something that has gradually been

dawning upon me in the past few days is the recognition that here an ideal

potentiality of life has become reality.  Men are as well off here as the

culture permits; women badly off.  We have seen things here that inspire

enthusiastic admiration, and things that make one ponder social evolution

deeply. As far as technological culture is concerned, we lag miles behind

America.  But all that is frightfully costly and already carries the germ of

the end in itself. -- Carl Jung - Memories, Dreams, Reflections

 

Charles Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 15:28:36 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>

Subject:      Re: Please Mr. Johnson, Hand Me a Winner

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Bentz, I've remixed your poem.

 

This goes against all conventions, I know.  and I'm sorry if this

version offends you in any way.  I like the hustler card game images,

the ranting and raving, the thrufare reethum of it all.  Let me know

what you think.  Since, Douglas

 

+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_

 

 

R Bentz writ,

runner mixed:

(v8/15/97)

 

>In my own words:  <ahem>

>

>Death's Hand is a Loser

>(For Patricia and Charles who have lost a friend.)

>(For Richard who has lost a blues man.)

 

 

>When loss is with us

we can not say

>the cards are dealt,

>Death's hand is a loser.

 

>And .

>Beyond this .

The losing hand is what

>No. .

>And It is that loss.

hav[ing] seen death alive

>But  you  ?

>

>And what is that.

>Loss is gone,

>But you're here.

>Loss is selfish,

>What you're missing.

>Loss is true,

>What you need.

>Loss is false,

>The illusion.

>Loss is hurt,

>Part is gone.

 

 

>Unresolved, broken.

 

>Loss is Loss is Loss is

>Loss is

>Loss is us,

>

        maddness,

        death,

        Part of you too.

         gain,

         broken,

 

>Winter blends to Spring.

>Knowing feelings never come again.

>Born to die to birth again.

>A touch, a glance,

>A calm reassurance.

>A certainty, now uncertain.

>A feeling spinning thorough cosmic dust.

>Creating, playing, play on.

Rave on

 

 

>Play on Play on Play on

>

>       jazz man,

>        Chet,

>         blues man,

 

>Rave on Rave on Rave on

>

>       Charles,

>        madman,

>         Charles,

 

>Rave on

 

>Angel, P, Buddy Holly,

>

>

>Rave on

 

>Rave on

 

 

>Rave on sunflowers, cats,

>Rave on

>Rave on James,

>Rave on Bill,

 

>Rave on

 

 

>       Allen,

>        Jack,

        Neal,

        Junkie,

>       Junky,

        Rave on Bull Lee,

 

>Rave on

>Rave on

>Rave on

>Rave on Sherri,

>Rave on James,

>Rave on Charles,

>Rave on Arthur,

 

 

 

>Rave

 

 

 

 

>on Roland Kirk,

> Richard,

> Luther,

> Miles,

> Rave on Train,

 

>Rave on Jesus,

>Judas, (Rave on)

>

>Rave, rave, rave, rave, rant, rave, rave, rave, rave,

>Rave on me.

(Rave on Rave on Rave on )

>

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 15:31:51 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>

Subject:      green tit

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

from Last Words (New Yorker p37):

 

<<

May 24, Saturday,

 

[snip] A few drags on the green tit and I can see multiple ways out and

beyond.  so why all this head on this harmless and rewarding substance?

>>

 

problem I have with marijuana is that it occasionally leaves me

jellyfish, pocked with enough holes I feel beehived.  sure it brings the

rain, eases the pain, and generally lights up my life.  sure.  then

there are days that that suffer upon fools their fate.

 

and talking to people, fixating on objects outside the self.  walking

around with my hands high low.  the air parting my lips in stuttered

thoughts.  just another asshole flapping his lips, I figure.

 

that's what's wrong, Mr. Burroughs.

 

Douglas

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:35:59 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Re: Please Mr. Johnson, Hand Me a Winner

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Douglas:

 

Thank you.  Does this qualify as a cut up?

 

Penn, Douglas, K wrote:

 

> Bentz, I've remixed your poem.

>

> This goes against all conventions, I know.  and I'm sorry if this

> version offends you in any way.  I like the hustler card game images,

> the ranting and raving, the thrufare reethum of it all.  Let me know

> what you think.  Since, Douglas

>

> +_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_

>

> R Bentz writ,

> runner mixed:

> (v8/15/97)

>

> >In my own words:  <ahem>

> >

> >Death's Hand is a Loser

> >(For Patricia and Charles who have lost a friend.)

> >(For Richard who has lost a blues man.)

>

> >When loss is with us

> we can not say

> >the cards are dealt,

> >Death's hand is a loser.

>

> >And .

> >Beyond this .

> The losing hand is what

> >No. .

> >And It is that loss.

> hav[ing] seen death alive

> >But  you  ?

> >

> >And what is that.

> >Loss is gone,

> >But you're here.

> >Loss is selfish,

> >What you're missing.

> >Loss is true,

> >What you need.

> >Loss is false,

> >The illusion.

> >Loss is hurt,

> >Part is gone.

>

> >Unresolved, broken.

>

> >Loss is Loss is Loss is

> >Loss is

> >Loss is us,

> >

>         maddness,

>         death,

>         Part of you too.

>          gain,

>          broken,

>

> >Winter blends to Spring.

> >Knowing feelings never come again.

> >Born to die to birth again.

> >A touch, a glance,

> >A calm reassurance.

> >A certainty, now uncertain.

> >A feeling spinning thorough cosmic dust.

> >Creating, playing, play on.

> Rave on

>

> >Play on Play on Play on

> >

> >       jazz man,

> >        Chet,

> >         blues man,

>

> >Rave on Rave on Rave on

> >

> >       Charles,

> >        madman,

> >         Charles,

>

> >Rave on

>

> >Angel, P, Buddy Holly,

> >

> >

> >Rave on

>

> >Rave on

>

> >Rave on sunflowers, cats,

> >Rave on

> >Rave on James,

> >Rave on Bill,

>

> >Rave on

>

> >       Allen,

> >        Jack,

>         Neal,

>         Junkie,

> >       Junky,

>         Rave on Bull Lee,

>

> >Rave on

> >Rave on

> >Rave on

> >Rave on Sherri,

> >Rave on James,

> >Rave on Charles,

> >Rave on Arthur,

>

> >Rave

>

> >on Roland Kirk,

> > Richard,

> > Luther,

> > Miles,

> > Rave on Train,

>

> >Rave on Jesus,

> >Judas, (Rave on)

> >

> >Rave, rave, rave, rave, rant, rave, rave, rave, rave,

> >Rave on me.

> (Rave on Rave on Rave on )

> >

> >

> >

 

 

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 15:49:28 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>

Subject:      Re: Please Mr. Johnson, Hand Me a Winner

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Bentz writ:

 

<<

>Douglas:

>

>Thank you.  Does this qualify as a cut up?

>>

 

or a fuckup.  Stole the idea from my friend Annabelle who did the same

thing to me once.  Took my email and snipped and tucked it into a new

machine.  Have been reading a little bit more about surrealism recently,

but haven't really absorbed anything that would allow me to be

definitive regarding a name for this process.

 

cut-up works.

 

have a bunch of those magnet poem words on my fridge.  can't figure out

for the life of me what to do with em.  On other people's fridges, they

are easy to spit and parse.  But my own works....  so, I steal and

borrow and beg my influences most of the time.  If anything, if you take

a given work and dice it up like I did yours, then you have to figure

out what to do with all the *extra* pieces.  As well, when you <ahem>

deconstruct a work, you get a chance --as that anarchist's WSB .sig

says-- to see what message the recorder was playin.

 

and I'm still rereading both versions.  goin for the big picture.  glad

you liked it.  Was a bit worried how you'd receive.  Now if only we

could put it to music.... a fast, choppy chorus <perhaps> with lots of

bridges and transitions, but but .... with a really cool Leonard Cohen

"hallelujah" overall feel to it.  ???

 

Douglas

 

 

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=

>Penn, Douglas, K wrote:

>

>> Bentz, I've remixed your poem.

>>

 

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:56:35 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Re: Please Mr. Johnson, Hand Me a Winner

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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Penn, Douglas, K wrote:

 

> Bentz writ:

>

> <<

> >Douglas:

> >

> >Thank you.  Does this qualify as a cut up?

> >>

>

> or a fuckup.  Stole the idea from my friend Annabelle who did the same

>

> thing to me once.  Took my email and snipped and tucked it into a new

> machine.  Have been reading a little bit more about surrealism

> recently,

> but haven't really absorbed anything that would allow me to be

> definitive regarding a name for this process.

>

> cut-up works.

>

> have a bunch of those magnet poem words on my fridge.  can't figure

> out

> for the life of me what to do with em.  On other people's fridges,

> they

> are easy to spit and parse.  But my own works....  so, I steal and

> borrow and beg my influences most of the time.  If anything, if you

> take

> a given work and dice it up like I did yours, then you have to figure

> out what to do with all the *extra* pieces.  As well, when you <ahem>

> deconstruct a work, you get a chance --as that anarchist's WSB .sig

> says-- to see what message the recorder was playin.

>

> and I'm still rereading both versions.  goin for the big picture.

> glad

> you liked it.  Was a bit worried how you'd receive.  Now if only we

> could put it to music.... a fast, choppy chorus <perhaps> with lots of

>

> bridges and transitions, but but .... with a really cool Leonard Cohen

>

> "hallelujah" overall feel to it.  ???

>

> Douglas

 

Maybe kind of like "So Long Marianne"?

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 19:02:13 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: ferling, etc

 

Derek et al -

 

The Ferlinghetti book you mention is already out -

It's a hardcover titled "A Far Rockaway of the Heart" from New Directions.

The price is $21.95. (shipping included) -

We've got plenty of copies in stock -

 

Jeffrey

Water Row Books

 

Did you get your Beat-L T-shirt yet?

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:08:37 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>

Subject:      Re: Please Mr. Johnson, Hand Me a Winner

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Bentz wrote:

 

>> Maybe kind of like "So Long Marianne"?

 

 

Don't know that one.  Why don't you hum a few bars.  Hell, if we lived

closer, we could probably burn a few bars, cutup style.  We'll give CP

some peyote and make him drive  ;-)  <<wicked evil grin>>

 

> Douglas

 

>--

>

>Peace,

>

>Bentz

>bocelts@scsn.net

>http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 20:03:20 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Please Mr. Johnson

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

...or "We didn't know what to call it

        So we called it quits...."

 

                Antoine

 

        **************

 

>In a message dated 97-08-15 06:45:39 EDT, you write:

>

><< lets not forget the "i followed her to the station with suitcase in my

> hand - love in vain" blues . . .

>  >>

>Ah yes,  and "I keep folding up inside just like the clothes I'm folding"

>-George Jones

>

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

     "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"

                        -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 20:47:20 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Slim Gaillard and Jack...and the hipsters

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

Thought the text further on was a great description of Kerouac:

 

        I've read the parts in "On The Road" that refer to Jack and Neal

watching Slim Gaillard in clubs, so it was interesting finding this

interview, with Slim talking about Jackl. Anyone who hasn't had a chance to

hear him on record, search him out.

 

        He was one of a small group of unique performers that straddled the

Bebop / Beat era. They included Harry 'the Hipster' Gibson, Richard 'Lord'

Buckley, Babs Gonzales, Leo Watson, Lenny Bruce, King Pleasure cooking up a

melange of songs, spoken word, great performance, vocalese, scat....all

intersecting with each other.

 

These quotes are from a large format paperback pictorial called "The Hip:

Hipsters, Jazz and the Beat Generation". Published in England in 1986 by

Faber & Faber; written by three well known English music journalists, Roy

Carr, Brian Case and Fred Dellar.

 

*****Slim Gaillard on Jack Kerouac**********

 

'Having Jack write about me in "On The Road" is a nice thing to have on your

report card.

'He was a great listener=85really admired my work...

 

        ....When I played "The Say When Club" in San Francisco, Jack showed

up every night.=85would stand with his back against the wall and while he

listened all the girls would cruise by and admire him.  Between sets, I'd

stand there right next to him.  We were both so sharp we made a Gillette

blade look like a hammer.

 

'There was one girl =97 owned two-thirds of Palm Springs =97 who'd keep=

 telling

me, "Slim, you're the most fantastic guy I=92ve ever seen!" Anyway, I wasn't

about to argue=85Then, one night when I came to the club, there was a key on

the piano with my name on it. She'd gone out and bought me a brand new car

as a little token=85hey! It's good to be handsome!'

He laughed, wiped up the remains of the eggs with bread roll, and chased it

all down with a bottle of Perrier.

 

******from "On the Road"*******

 

        Now Dean [Moriarty] approached him, he approached his God: he

thought Slim [Gaillard] was God: he shuffled and bowed in front of him and

asked him to join us.

 

        'Right-orooni', says Slim; he'll join anybody but won't guarantee to

be with you in spirit. Dean got a table, bought drinks, and sat stiffly in

front of Slim. Slim dreamed over his head. Every time Slim said, 'Orooni,'

Dean said, 'Yes!'

 

        I sat there with these two madmen. Nothing happened. To Slim

Gaillard the whole world was just one big orooni.

 

*******from Miles Davis*******

 

        "There are only two men that I look up to...

        Slim Gaillard and Dizzy Gillespie. Without them I wouldn't be=

 playing."

 

 

                Antoine

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

     "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to=

 do!"

                        -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:19:27 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Slim Gaillard and Jack...and the hipsters

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

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Cool cool post Antoine, appreciate it

 

all I can say is

 

flat foot floogie with the floy floy

 

(OK OK for 20 points and the lead what PBS show did our man Jack utter those

abovementioned quotes from Mr Gaillard?)

 

 

 

 

At 08:47 PM 8/15/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Thought the text further on was a great description of Kerouac:

>

>        I've read the parts in "On The Road" that refer to Jack and Neal

>watching Slim Gaillard in clubs, so it was interesting finding this

>interview, with Slim talking about Jackl. Anyone who hasn't had a chance to

>hear him on record, search him out.

>

>        He was one of a small group of unique performers that straddled the

>Bebop / Beat era. They included Harry 'the Hipster' Gibson, Richard 'Lord'

>Buckley, Babs Gonzales, Leo Watson, Lenny Bruce, King Pleasure cooking up a

>melange of songs, spoken word, great performance, vocalese, scat....all

>intersecting with each other.

>

>These quotes are from a large format paperback pictorial called "The Hip:

>Hipsters, Jazz and the Beat Generation". Published in England in 1986 by

>Faber & Faber; written by three well known English music journalists, Roy

>Carr, Brian Case and Fred Dellar.

>

>*****Slim Gaillard on Jack Kerouac**********

>

>'Having Jack write about me in "On The Road" is a nice thing to have on=

 your

>report card.

>'He was a great listener=85really admired my work...

>

>        ....When I played "The Say When Club" in San Francisco, Jack showed

>up every night.=85would stand with his back against the wall and while he

>listened all the girls would cruise by and admire him.  Between sets, I'd

>stand there right next to him.  We were both so sharp we made a Gillette

>blade look like a hammer.

>

>'There was one girl =97 owned two-thirds of Palm Springs =97 who'd keep=

 telling

>me, "Slim, you're the most fantastic guy I=92ve ever seen!" Anyway, I=

 wasn't

>about to argue=85Then, one night when I came to the club, there was a key=

 on

>the piano with my name on it. She'd gone out and bought me a brand new car

>as a little token=85hey! It's good to be handsome!'

>He laughed, wiped up the remains of the eggs with bread roll, and chased it

>all down with a bottle of Perrier.

>

>******from "On the Road"*******

>

>        Now Dean [Moriarty] approached him, he approached his God: he

>thought Slim [Gaillard] was God: he shuffled and bowed in front of him and

>asked him to join us.

>

>        'Right-orooni', says Slim; he'll join anybody but won't guarantee=

 to

>be with you in spirit. Dean got a table, bought drinks, and sat stiffly in

>front of Slim. Slim dreamed over his head. Every time Slim said, 'Orooni,'

>Dean said, 'Yes!'

>

>        I sat there with these two madmen. Nothing happened. To Slim

>Gaillard the whole world was just one big orooni.

>

>*******from Miles Davis*******

>

>        "There are only two men that I look up to...

>        Slim Gaillard and Dizzy Gillespie. Without them I wouldn't be=

 playing."

>

>

>                Antoine

> Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

>

>     "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to=

 do!"

>                        -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 21:45:37 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Slim Gaillard and Jack...and the hipsters

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

And to add to Tim's quiz...

 

        Who was Slim's musically famous son-in-law? He even had slim on a

record of his in the 80's!

                Antoine

 

        ****************

 

Cool cool post Antoine, appreciate it

>

>all I can say is

>

>flat foot floogie with the floy floy

>

>(OK OK for 20 points and the lead what PBS show did our man Jack utter those

>abovementioned quotes from Mr Gaillard?)

>

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

     "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"

                        -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 22:41:19 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Chet and I

Comments: To: jwhite333@sprintmail.com

 

God, I didn't know you knew him. I used to fantasize to his music  in eary

fifties. I had a vision of him beside a 48 Ford conv. with his arms around a

chick in the perfect new suburb, but always saying goodbye so beautifully

frank. That's  first tip somethings happening! He sand his sad subtle songs

so mellow it can make your bones cry, the whole flower bleed.

C. Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 23:20:35 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Chet and I

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Charles,

 

        Who knew him?   ...have we got a hitherto unknown jazz resource on

the list?

 

        Ross Porter of CBC: Canadian Broadcasting Corporation put together a

great three hour / three part series on Baker that aired earlier this year

and again this past three weeks. It was a great blend of music and history.

Ross does a late night jazz show five days a week on the national FM band.

 

        He interviewed a ton of people and even went so far as to spend a

night in the hotel room in Amsterdam from where Chet fell (...or was

pushed?) to his death. He spoke to the police locally who were sure he was

probably not pushed. Ross did think that it was pretty unlikely that it was

an accident with Chet just lounging at the window since the window

construction would have made that awkward. His girlfriend seemed to think it

was probably suicide since he had been so distraught about her going back to

the States when he got to be too much to deal with.

 

        The book I mentioned earlier tonight had a lovely section on him.

One of the writers describes bumping into Chet late one rainy night in some

town in the midlands of England. He was bent over sideways looking into a

pawnshop at a trumpet trying to see if he could make out the maker''s mark.

The cover is a great bluetone picture of Chet, tee-shirt and jacket, sitting

on a folding chair with leg, white socks, loafers,  tossed up onto the next

one; a shockingly young looking Chet taken by Bob Willoughby in

1953...especially so when one is used to his appearance in later years.

 

        In Ross Porter's series he described Chet being stopped speeding by

a highway patrol officer who was all set to slam him, but then caught sight

of some albi\ums piled in the back seat. Asked "Chester Baker?   ....are you

Chet Baker??"   ...and collapsed in dizzy fan frenzy.

 

        Where did Chet stand in the Beat musical pantheon? Was he considered

not edgy enough?

 

        Antoine

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

     "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"

                        -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 23:20:40 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Re: about razor..Occam's

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Thanks for adding the William for me Rinaldo and for choosing such a perfect

Ferlinghetti poem as a response! Which collection is it from?

 

        Antoine

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

     "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"

                        -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 19:28:31 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Lew Welch Events, New posting Format

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

This am. Chron here in SF had a nice story on Lew in connection with the

releast of Magda Cregg's book on Lew which I have not yet seen.  Magda

was a sig. other of Lew's and also, as a sideline, mother to Huey Lewis.

 

An even is happening at noon Saturday in Bolinas which I will not be

able to make.  If Beat-L folks know of any others kindly backchannel me.

 

The new posting format appears to me to be already generating unecessary

mail that would be better backchanneled.  Here is my one vote for a

return to the interim format in which backchannel is encouraged ( a good

thing in my view,) and a post to all 200+plus of us is required a little

thought.

 

Just my two cents.

 

J. Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 23:33:44 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Re: Chet and I

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Pamela Beach Plymell wrote:

>

> God, I didn't know you knew him. I used to fantasize to his music  in

> eary

> fifties. I had a vision of him beside a 48 Ford conv. with his arms

> around a

> chick in the perfect new suburb, but always saying goodbye so

> beautifully

> frank. That's  first tip somethings happening! He sand his sad subtle

> songs

> so mellow it can make your bones cry, the whole flower bleed.

> C. Plymell

 

Charles at the risk of losing all my Southern Manhood self image, I will

venture to say, that in addition to being able to blow the trumpet like

no one else, he was a beautiful man.  I wonder if any of the women on

the list noticed his fallen angel, needing mothering, impish boy nature.

Just had to take care of him.  It would be good if some one some where

would put together a real jazz sampler with all some of the best of all

those who played from the heart.  Train, Chet, Miles, Dizzy, Byrd,

Charlie Christian, Wes Montgomery, at least that's where I would start.

 

Maybe it's out there.  Tell me if you know.

 

Peace,

 

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 15 Aug 1997 22:33:51 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James William Marshall <dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>

Subject:      I Guess I Didn't

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

That window makes you look really ugly.

I should've told you but I guess I didn't.

That sunset is rising from the greatest depths.

I should've told you but I guess I didn't.

 

Wake up.

Get undressed.

You fell asleep in my dreams again.

 

 

                                           James M.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:04:15 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "P.A.Maher" <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      The Flood of Dr. Sax

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

The Kerouac Quarterly Page has been updated today (8-16-97)!!!

For details about the Images of Kerouac '97 Exhibition go to:

 

http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/page1.html

 

To see the painting "The Flood of Dr. Sax" go to:

 

http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/page2.html

 

Let me know what you think!!!! Thanks, Paul of TKQ. . .

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:00:26 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      [Fwd: Burroughs]

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Well, I have been scanning the Dylan list for some more good Burroughs

posts.  And I couldn't find anymore, so the action must have died down.

But since the beats play cosmic baseball on the net, and since the

action has dwindled, I did find this fine reference to Cal Ripken and

Eddie Murray.  Seems timely since Anaheim just cut Eddie.

 

But on the beat list question.  I know, or at least believe Jack was

very much into baseball. How about Neal, or any others.  It would not

seem to be Allen's or William's kind of thing.  I know that James and

and few others had some good comments on Neal playing pool.  Is there

any sort of information on baseball and its connection with those who

are considered beats.  I personally find baseball to be a very

interesting game when seen live.  On tv, it is much too long.

 

Peace,

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

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Path:

 Supernews69!SupernewsFH!newsfeed.direct.ca!logbridge.uoregon.edu!zdc!szdc!newsp

 .zippo.com!zdrn

From: judy

Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan

Subject: Re: Burroughs

Date: 15 Aug 1997 22:03:57 -0700

Organization: canova@hay.seed

Message-ID: <5t3cbt$s2r@drn.zippo.com>

References: <1.5.4.16.19970808102856.1b1f1c80@mail.mpx.com.au>

 <19970814.195351.4391.0.steve_lescure@juno.com>

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In article , Steve says...

>

>I would say that songwriters are certainly better judges than the typical

>music listener (Steve Earle notwithstanding), and probably better than

>the average critic.   Look at  baseball.  When the fans picked the

>players (maybe they still do, I don't  follow it much anymore) the

>choices were often ludicrious.  When the

>writers/mangers picked it came out much better, less choices like

>Cal Ripken batting .250 starting at shortstop.

>

 

Look, it's one thing for folks in this newsgroup to take on Baez,

Burroughs, God, Ginsberg, or Calvin.  But when you go after Cal Ripken,

you've crossed the line.  What's next?  An attack on Eddie Murray?

 

--------------7728E3029820A3D2CE567CEF--

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 16 Aug 1997 14:58:53 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Cut up method

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>From the Beat Book, edited by Anne Waldman 1996, page 182.

 

The Cut-up Method of Brion Gysin

 

At a surrealist rally in the 1920s Tristan Tzara the man from nowhere

proposed to creat a poem on the spot by pulling words out of a hat.  A

riot ensued wrecked the theater.  Andre Breton expelled Tristan Tzara

from the movement and grounded the cut-ups on the Freudian couch.

 

In the summer of 1959 Brion Gysin painter and writer cut newspaper

articles into sections at random.  "Minutes to Go" resulted from this

initial cut-up experiment.  "Minutes to Go" contains unedited unchanged

cut-ups emerging as quite coherent and meaningful prose.

 

...

 

Tristam Tzara said: "Poetry is for everyone."

 

...

 

Cutups are for everyone.  Anybody can make cut-ups.

 

This is from William S. Burroughs, The Cut-up Method of Brion Gysin

which first appeared in the "The Third Mind (c) 1978.

 

I was just trying to dig into some better understanding of Burroughs and

stumbled across this.

 

Peace,

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 16 Aug 1997 04:40:54 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      On the Road: first 2 chapters

Comments: cc: SSASN@AOL.COM

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Is anyone ready to discuss books yet?  In rereading On the Road, I'm

noticing how much more romantic Kerouac is here about life, still in the

early stages of captivation with Neal for his love of life.

 

pg. 8, "...and I shambled after as I've been doing all my life after

people who interest me, because the only people for me are the mad ones,

the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of

everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace

thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabolous yellow roman candles exploding

like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue

centerlight pop and everybody goes 'Awww!'"

 

Interesting perception of Neal meeting Allen: pg. 7

"Two keen minds that they are, they took to each other at the drop of a

hat.  Two piercing eyes glanced into two piercing eyes--the holy con-man

with the shining mind, and the sorrowful poetic con-man with the dark

mind that is Carlo Marx."

 

Also interesting to note, is even that in starting out on his first

hitchhike across the country, where his plan is to take Route 6 straight

across the country to Ely, Nevada., he has to give up because there are

no cars to pick him up, and a passerby suggests he give up the plan

and head to Pittsburg to Chicago; he says, "It was my dream that screwed

up, the stupid hearthside idea that it would be wonderful to follow one

great red line across America instead of trying various roads and

routes."

 

So, in his eyes, is the American dream already starting to topple?  Is

the spiritual journey also begun? The fact that life is lived and

knowledge is gained by trying various roads and routes, instead of one

answer, analogous to one gigantic thoroughfare cutting through the middle

of America, but no one is on it.

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 16 Aug 1997 05:01:33 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Naked Lunch: Chapter 1, up to Benway

Comments: cc: SSASN@AOL.COM

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The most amazing thing about the beginning of Naked Lunch is the flow of

language.  Very much different than Kerouac's type of flow but very

compelling from the perspective of keeping the reader interested.  It

is a keen flow of dialogue that keeps things moving. As for subject

matter, mostly I've learned that the heirarchy of junk on all levels is

all-consuming and everyone is the chain is addicted to his own level, be

that user, seller, buyer, agent, etc.; the system goes in circles,

everyone is affected, infected.  Not a pretty world, lots of drooling,

vomiting, spitting, nightmares about rotting ectoplasm.  Also no real

sense of who I is, or where he is, except caught in a vicious cycle.

Does anyone else have a perspective about the beginning of the book?

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 16 Aug 1997 23:03:59 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      The Darkness of Buddishm.

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*-

"A man who uses Buddhism or any other instrument to

remove love from his being in order to avoid,

has committed, in my mind, a sacrilege comparable

to castration."-- William S. Burroughs' letter to Jack Kerouac.

>From "Letters of William S. Burroughs 1945-1959."

 

*-

        "When the Vietnamese communists

        took Saigon in 1975, they put their "class

        enemies" into re-education camps. In

        neighboring Cambodia, Pol Pot built exter-

        mination camps. Techears, doctors, people

        who could speak a foreing language, even

        people who wore glasses, were purged as

        he sought to reduce all of Cambodia to the

        level of the peasant class. The Vietnamese

        could be cruel captors, but their Confucian

        heritage left them open to educational re-

        form. In Cambodia, by contrast, Buddhism

        encouraged a belief in the ineluctability

        of karma and the idea that evil suffered

        is evil deserved. ''The idea of karma

        goes very deep in this society, and I

        think that was part of the mentality of

        the Khmer Rouge when they were massacring

        people,'' said Francois Ponvhaud, a priest

        who first went in Cambodia in 1965. '' They

        believed their victims had made errors,

        political errors, and that killing them

        would allow them to be reborn as better

        people in their next lives''. Pol Pot has

        admitted to some mistakes in the period

        from 1975 to 1979, but in his eyes they

        were mistakes of policy. About the million

        dead, he has never expressed any remorse."

        From "Terry McCarthy-- TIME,AUGUST 11,1997."

 

*-

"I repeat, BUDDHISM IS NOT FOR THE WEST.

We must evolve our own solutions..."

-- William S. Burroughs' letter to Jack Kerouac.

>From "Letters of William S. Burroughs 1945-1959."

*-

 

        DIED. WILLIAM BURROUGHS, 83,

        countercultural hero, whose

        delicioussly delirious novel,

        ''Naked Lunch'', was cleared

        of obscenity charges by the

        U.S. Supreme Court; in Lawrence,

        Kansas. A literary junkie,

        Burroughs was hooked on heroin

        and words, which he furiously

        pieced together to exorcise the

        memory of having drunkenly shot

        his wife Joan instead of the

        glass perched on her head. Of

        that stunt gone fatally wrong,

        Burroughs once said: '' I have

        had no choice but to write my

        way out.''

        From "TIME,AUGUST 18,1997.

*-

 

saluti fraterni,

Rinaldo.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 16 Aug 1997 17:14:20 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Eric Blanco <Chimera@WEBTV.NET>

Subject:      Smoke Signals

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Sam plays the blues

His left hand action

Could break your heart

 

[Dark Cipher

Show Judas mercy

He was dealt a raw hand

Shattered faith and broken connection

He took to the highway

To be born again

You need distance]

 

Rick pours a drink

And waits for her return

 

[Like a killer

Firing blanks at a photograph

He seethes

Like an infant

Being smothered by a pillow

Thinks he sees the light]

 

He lights a cigarette

And lets time go by

 

[We surrounded the fire

Dancing and ripping the flesh

Off our screaming sacrifice

Our hands covered with blood

And offal]

 

Ilsa's eyes still watch him at night

 

[Menstrual mind shaved bare

Severed ring finger

On a drift of snow

Coyly removing her shades

Tongues of flame lick the air

>From hollow eye sockets]

 

"I miss you, kid"

 

[In the apartment next door

A body is being slammed against

The wall again and again

All I do is sweat my sheets into slush

And follow the rhythm in terror]

 

She's always another drink away

 

[The knife thrower

Over there, wiping his steel

Is Anxious for his turn on stage

He makes sure these parties

Don't get over crowded]

 

He's always a drink behind

 

[Her room is gaurded by statues

Of saints, candles and prayer cards

Holy water by the door

Someone outside crying at

A lovers' breakthrough

Swallowed by black night

Playing burial drums in the street

Acceptance at her outstretched hand

I lay down

Whose lips enclosed

Whose touch could save]

 

 

                                           Chimera

                                            '91 (cut-ups)

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 16 Aug 1997 23:15:02 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Beat Writers.

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http://sfpl.lib.ca.us/nbe/beatwriters.html

 

 

List of Beat Writers in The Collection

 

 

        The two sources used to determine if a writer/poet is to be included

 in the Beat Writers Collection are: 1) A two volume set entitled "The Beats:

 Literary Bohemians in Postwar America" (edited by Ann Charters. Gale. 1983).

 More than a biography of 66 Beats or Beat Era writers, each entry includes an

 in-depth critique of the works of an author and includes at least one

 photograph and a bibliography.  The six page forward written by Charters

 serves as a quick socio-historical analysis of BEAT.

        Poets/writers listed in this two volume set are:

 

Amari Baraka (Leroi Jones)

Paul Blackburn

Bonnie Bremser

Ray Bremser

Chandler Brossard

William S. Burroughs

William S. Burroughs Jr.

Paul Carroll

Carolyn Cassady

Neal Cassady

Andy Clausen

Gregory Corso

Robert Creely

Diane DiPrima

Kirby Doyle

Robert Duncan

Bob Dylan

William Everson (Brother Antonus)

Lawrence Ferlinghetti

Allen Ginsberg

Brion Gysin

John Cellon Holmes

Herbert Huncke

Ted Joans

Lenore Kandel

Bob Kaufman

Jan Kerouac

Jack kerouac

Ken Kesey

Seymour Krim

Tuli Kupferberg

Joanne Kyger

Philip Lamantia

Jay Landesman

Fran Landesman

Timothy Leary

Lawrence Lipton

Norman Mailer

Edward Marshall

Joanna McClure

Michael McClure

Taylor Mead

David Meltzer

Jack Micheline

John Montgomery

Harold Norse

Frank O'Hara

Charles Olson

Peter Orlovsky

Kenneth Patchen

Stuart Z. Perkoff

Charles Plymell

Dan Propper

Kenneth Rexroth

Michael Rumaker

Ed Sanders

Gary Snyder

Carl Solomon

Jack Spicer

Charles Upton

Janine Pommy Vega

Anne Waldman

Alan Watts

Lew Welch

Philip Whalen

John Weiners

William Carlos Williams

 

        2) The second book is entitled

        "Women of the Beat Generation" (edited by Brenda Knight.)

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 16 Aug 1997 17:47:00 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Eric Blanco <Chimera@WEBTV.NET>

Subject:      Re: Naked Lunch: Chapter 1, up to Benway

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         I found out quickly that the best

way to approach NL (for me) is as a

long poem, rather than a novel.

 

           Being spoiled by mainstream

authors (hey, I was young!), I wasn't

expecting the sharp turns in the middle

of a sentence (in the middle of a thought)

or the playing with the flow of the plot.

Once you sink into the rhythm and

_expect_ high word play and serious

surreal imagery, the book comes more

easily. Anyway-just me talkin'.

 

            As for the subject matter, even

with my limited (by comparison) drug

experience, one of the things that I was

affected by was WSB's dead on (and

heartbreaking) descriptions of the users'

denial of self (except when it comes to

scoring). The loss of shame, vanity, etc.

It seemed to me that while putting down

these scenes, all his fantastic wordplay

was put aside just for a few sentences

and he was just "putting the feeling

across, straight". All the more jarring

when he'd get up and go again.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 16 Aug 1997 19:53:46 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gary Mex Glazner <PoetMex@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Lew Welch

Comments: To: dcarter@together.net

 

Bolinas 7.16.97 4pm Western Standard Time

 

Lew Welch Birthday party-Book party

Hey Beat List

this is my first post--

Just back from great reading, singing, dancing,

homage to Lew...  Happy Birthday,

Ring of bone-

Robert Hunter the long time Greatful Dead lyricist

sang to the crowd

Magda singed copies of her new book

"Hey Lew"

People read from Lew's poems

(I got to read Taxi Suite)

All in the sweet down town

of Bolinas

ever wonder what

happened to all the hippies?

They are alive and well

in Bolinas

more poets per capita than

any where on the plant.

Also in attendance

Joann Kyger

You can get the new book

by sending $12.00 to Magda Cregg

Box 964 Bolinas CA 94924

(for those not in the know

she was married to Lew

and the mother of

Huey Lewis)

Sweet stories in the book

of Lew teaching Huey

about poetry!!

 

Love,

Gary Mex Glazner

Headless Buddha

http://www.well.com/user/poetmex

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 16 Aug 1997 18:51:57 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>

Subject:      Re: Cut up method

In-Reply-To:  <33F5F86D.548BBCEF@scsn.net>

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At 11:58 AM -0700 8/16/97, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

 

> Tristam Tzara said: "Poetry is for everyone."

>

> ...

>

> Cutups are for everyone.  Anybody can make cut-ups.

>

> This is from William S. Burroughs, The Cut-up Method of Brion Gysin

> which first appeared in the "The Third Mind (c) 1978.

>

> I was just trying to dig into some better understanding of Burroughs and

> stumbled across this.

 

 

driving down from Lala today.  thinking about The Big Lie and how cutups,

collage, and that compacted shape shifting style familiar to david salle,

burroughs, and a whole new generation of graphic designers.  Got to

thinking about how otto dix and george grosz with the depictions of post

wwI germany, their crowded political scenes are very reminsecent of my WSB

view.

 

to crack the big lie.  to be vigilent on the truth and not be snide, not

play stupid, and to crack the commercian veneer that often surrounds such

enterprises.

 

yes, "people have the power" as patti smith often says.  "people have the

power to dream, to rule, to wrestle the earth from fools"

 

and how refreshing it is to read some straight commentary, not some alien

this and hanging boy critique of capitalism art statement.  props to the

New Yorker for getting ahold of those journal entries.  Wonder how they

pulled that one off??

 

>

> Peace,

> --

> Bentz

> bocelts@scsn.net

>

> http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

 

Douglas

 

 

http://www.electriciti.com/babu/        |   0   |

step aside, and let the man go thru     |  { -  |

        ---->  let the man go thru      |  /\   |

super bon-bon (soul coughing)           =========

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 16 Aug 1997 20:50:34 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Naked Lunch: Chapter 1, up to Benway

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Diane Carter wrote:

>

> The most amazing thing about the beginning of Naked Lunch is the flow of

> language.  Very much different than Kerouac's type of flow but very

> compelling from the perspective of keeping the reader interested.  It

> is a keen flow of dialogue that keeps things moving. As for subject

> matter, mostly I've learned that the heirarchy of junk on all levels is

> all-consuming and everyone is the chain is addicted to his own level, be

> that user, seller, buyer, agent, etc.; the system goes in circles,

> everyone is affected, infected.  Not a pretty world, lots of drooling,

> vomiting, spitting, nightmares about rotting ectoplasm.  Also no real

> sense of who I is, or where he is, except caught in a vicious cycle.

> Does anyone else have a perspective about the beginning of the book?

> DC

 

It has been some time since i've been through this book.  As i may have

mentioned i gave my william burroughs collection to a dear friend for

hannukah last winter.  i felt it was time to pass it along at the time.

sometimes i have regrets - especially when specifics are being

discussed.  The local library which does have a copy of Naked Lunch will

not be open until sometime later next week.  Hopefully it will be

available for checkout.

        In the meantime another library in town "MAGICALLY" had a copy of the

Letters 45-59 of WSB.  I checked it out yesterday and have already made

it to December 1952.  It is good reading and quite a warmup for moving

into Naked Lunch - as i believe Arthur had suggested previously.

        One thing about what you've recognized in the opening portions of the

book is that i believe that there are many layers beyond mere junk at

work here.  The nature of the vicious cycle is particularly important.

It seems to be (as i recall) that the beginning section of this book --

with minor modifications -- could be a recurring preface to most of the

works to follow with differing emphasis concerning the specifics.

        Without a copy of Naked Lunch before me it is difficult to explain this

very well as i am unable to provide any textual references.  What i am

suggesting also in no way is a claim that your current reading is a

misunderstanding or misconception.  Rather what i'm trying to find the

words to breakthrough with here is that the beginning section can be

read as developing a far more general theory concerning addiction and

control and even Control with a capital "C".  Such a reading views the

poetry of junk as a poetic example of the larger notion.

        The particular kind of vicious cycle described here is a powerful

general theory which can be translated across addictions and even as far

as considering addictions to the virus of words and the control of

space/time and the addiction to finding immortality.  Throughout the

writings of WSB, it always seems to me, that coming back to these

beginnings in Naked Lunch can provide a powerful lens into the future

project.

        Two other comments ... it seems that it is important to view Naked

Lunch as more than a junk novel from the outset.  The junk experience is

already described in some detail in Junkie/Junky (or as in the letters

simply Junk).  Viewing as more than a junk novel helps discourage the

tendency to pigeonhole the writings of WSB as a junk novelist.

        The second thing is that the technique employed in developing Naked

Lunch of cut-up (cut and paste, splice, word montage - whatever) both

presents a clear picture and something of a non-linear image that breaks

through pre-recordings.  In reading WSB, one can merely accept the

pre-recording of the book as published or appreciate this version and

also glance around the montage of words for portraits of further

meanings yet to be exposed.

 

        Just a few thoughts.  I look forward to being able to check out the

necessary books to keep up with you on this very very soon.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 16 Aug 1997 22:15:29 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "P.A.Maher" <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Thanks to My Friends of the Beat-L

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Thanks to all those who have visited my web page for The Kerouac Quarterly.

I must solicit one thing from those who can help me. I am looking for any

current or upcoming reviews for Some of the Dharma. This is an important

publication and should be widely discussed in a controversial way. I think

you all will be surprised by its contents as I was. For now. . .I have the

negative review from Kirkus added to the page ( a page I will keep separate

for Some of the Dharma). Thanks again. . .please e-mail me your reviews

should you get them. Regards and thanks from The Kerouac Quarterly. .

.Sincerely Paul. . .

 

 The Kerouac Quarterly, a journal for the legacy and spirit of Jack Kerouac. . .

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 16 Aug 1997 19:22:10 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James William Marshall <dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>

Subject:      Re: Naked Lunch

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  Like David, I haven't reread the novel in quite awhile.  I have to agree

with his idea about how pervasive the metaphor of "junk" is throughout the

novel.  A scene which has stuck in my mind since I read it, and I believe

it's in the first chapter, is when a guy approaches the narrator in the

subway (?) and the narrator immediately recognizes the guy as someone who

isn't "in the know" and who, because of this, is ready for a fleecing.

  And I keep thinking about how "paranoia" is so often justified and I

wonder how truly deep the "junk" goes.  Maybe I'll reread it after all.

 

                                                   Your's,

                                                   James M.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 00:20:14 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "P.A.Maher" <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Some of the Dharma Review

Mime-Version: 1.0

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I have posted on another page at my web site a review for Some of the Dharma.

 

http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/page3.html

 

Enjoy and respond! Regards to all, Paul of TKQ. . .

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 16 Aug 1997 21:34:09 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>

Subject:      Re: Naked Lunch: Chapter 1, up to Benway

In-Reply-To:  <33F658EA.50E2@midusa.net>

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At 6:50 PM -0700 8/16/97, RACE --- wrote:

 

 

>         The particular kind of vicious cycle described here is a powerful

> general theory which can be translated across addictions and even as far

> as considering addictions to the virus of words and the control of

> space/time and the addiction to finding immortality.  Throughout the

> writings of WSB, it always seems to me, that coming back to these

> beginnings in Naked Lunch can provide a powerful lens into the future

> project.

 

Ok, cool.  Was watching tv tonight, "Valmont."  This psycho thriller of

sorts, involving love, death, manipulation, and in the end, "the viscious

circle".  And we see it all planned out.  down to the details.  Human

beings controling the outcome of events.  Mixed this all up with my working

WSB ideas of the "big lie."

 

Went to the bookstore today and came up with "the western lands."  They

didn't have the WSB letters book, nor the Umberto Eco I was looking for.

Got a S. Dali compendium for $6 (quite a steal!).

 

 also realized the you can translate the control, the viscious cycle you

are talking about into visual terms as well.  That's where the green tit

comes in handy, I guess.  The Gaze!

 

then from what your talking about, don't forget what an old carny WSB is.

I liked how Eric Blanco talked about WSB and his few true sentences.  And

seeing him start, jarringly, up again.  The lure to keep the carny suspect

hooked.

 

and from "Valmont" realizing that your own actions are possibly not enough

to prevent the big lie from happening again.  that lies are necessary, that

love is not always fulfilled, and the harm might willingly be caused to

others.  Needing people to respect and violate these personal laws.

 

then death, how it works.  death is indeed the seed.  burrowing down deep

like the fucking fleas in my apartment.  bring the heat and my blood is

ripe for the picking.

 

http://www.electriciti.com/babu/images/Big_lie.html

 

> david rhaesa

> salina, Kansas

 

Douglas

 

 

http://www.electriciti.com/babu/        |   0   |

step aside, and let the man go thru     |  { -  |

        ---->  let the man go thru      |  /\   |

super bon-bon (soul coughing)           =========

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 16 Aug 1997 22:49:11 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>

Subject:      green tit (1997)

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

http://www.electriciti.com/babu/images/Green_tit.html

 

 

 

http://www.electriciti.com/babu/        |   0   |

step aside, and let the man go thru     |  { -  |

        ---->  let the man go thru      |  /\   |

super bon-bon (soul coughing)           =========

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 10:17:28 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Lawrence Ferlinghetti, the Prevert of America...

In-Reply-To:  <BEAT-L%1997081523204008@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Antoine et al. friends,

 

the Ferlinghetti's poem "Walking through the University of Bologna"

is printed in the book

"Ferlinghetti, SCENE ITALIANE", ed. Minum fax, (c) 1995, Roma

in the cover a Ferlinghetti's painting titled "Morning Vision",

 

in previous post i noticed thet Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>

have alot of books in stock i dunno if he has a copy of "Italian Scenes"

by LF,

 

saluti a tutti, e buona domenica,

Rinaldo.

 

 

At 23.20 15/08/97 -0400, Antoine wrote:

>Thanks for adding the William for me Rinaldo and for choosing such a perfect

>Ferlinghetti poem as a response! Which collection is it from?

>

>        Antoine

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 04:28:41 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Lowell Kerouac organizers

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 11:41 PM 8/14/97 -0400, you wrote:

>I have ended this kind of crap! It went out with greasy funded french fries.

>Who wants to see Kerouac's Lowell in that kind of crowd, anyway?

>C. Plymell

>

>

The Hemingway ancestors have ceased control of the Papa

image in Key West and are trying to the get the annual

event to pay them (the Hem foundation)tribute for using

the Hem image, etc.  If Kerouac's relatives want to make

a case which makes all public beat knowledge accessible to

them.  It could be the Dow is starting to shift downers.

 

Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 05:02:56 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Naked Lunch: Chapter 1, up to Benway

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

runner wrote:

>   Mixed this all up with my working

> WSB ideas of the "big lie."

>

> http://www.electriciti.com/babu/images/Big_lie.html

>

> Douglas

>

> http://www.electriciti.com/babu/

 

I'm not certain that "lie" is it.  Unless the Lie is in only one angle

on truth.  It doesn't seem to me a particularly moralish notion as Lie

sometimes suggests - what constitutes the Big Lie is factually accurate

from a particular point of view, from a particular angle.  What is

exposed is the multiplicity of angles.

 

i like your montage/collage.  it reminded me of an old friends stuff

that he used to send through the mail - addressing the backside of

something like that to friends.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 05:06:11 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Naked Lunch

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

James William Marshall wrote:

>

>   Like David, I haven't reread the novel in quite awhile.  I have to agree

> with his idea about how pervasive the metaphor of "junk" is throughout the

> novel.  A scene which has stuck in my mind since I read it, and I believe

> it's in the first chapter, is when a guy approaches the narrator in the

> subway (?) and the narrator immediately recognizes the guy as someone who

> isn't "in the know" and who, because of this, is ready for a fleecing.

>   And I keep thinking about how "paranoia" is so often justified and I

> wonder how truly deep the "junk" goes.  Maybe I'll reread it after all.

>

>                                                    Your's,

>                                                    James M.

 

i wasn't going to re-read it.  i felt like - been there, done that.  but

i know that i missed so many angles along the way in first readings and

the idea of reading it with others seems a nice idea.  i hope you decide

to read it.

 

this and the message to douglas are probably examples of what just as

well might be backchanneled ... i fall easily into the trap that the new

format creates and James Stauffer so elegantly slammed.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 07:14:11 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Comments:     Resent-From: Fred Bogin <FDBBC@cunyvm.cuny.edu>

Comments:     Originally-From: Matthias_Schneider

              <magrobi@mail.zedat.fu-berlin.de>

From:         Fred Bogin <FDBBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Subject:      Burroughs/ Ginsberg and David Leavitt

Mime-Version: 1.0

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Hi,

thanks for helping me with the citation search the other day...

=2E..by the way, I am studying the Text The Lost Language of Cranes by David

Leavitt for my thesis and there are at least two references concerning

Ginsberg und Burroughs.

(1.) a rather middle-class gay couple distance themselves from Ginsberg=B4s

social life

(2.) there is a scene in which one of the protagonists (Philip) is in a

porn theatre an he has sex with a guy, although he does not want it until

"the strange man=B4s hand unzips Philip=B4s and BURROWS into him."

I wonder whether the verb "burrows into" (It sounds like "Burroughs,

doesn=B4t it?) is a textual reference to Naked Lunch to what happened to the

boys. I have not read  Naked Lunch yet, but as far as I know they are kind

of raped and die at the end of the story. Is there any other term (that is

perhaps more often used) that describes fellatio, instead of to "burrow

into".

I guess David Leavitt is pretty anti-beat.

 

Do you think the latter clue has any sense, or am I overreading? I would be

grateful for any comments.

 

Matthias Schneider (Berlin)

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 13:49:48 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      la Repubblica quoted Wall Street Journal WSB's obituary

In-Reply-To:  <33EFFFC8.5258@buchenroth.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 23.16 11/08/97 -0700,

"Michael L. Buchenroth" <mike@BUCHENROTH.COM> wrote:

>Last Saturday morning (Friday night) I read an article / bio / slam /

>insulting and frightening propaganda bullshit narrowly filtered opinion

>in the "Wall Street Journal" about Burroughs and the Beats, etc.

>***

[snipped for brevity]

>

 

Friends,

the newspaper "la Repubblica", printed in Rome (the 2th most

big newspaper in Italy) today sunday 17th august 1997, has quoted the

Wall Street Journal article concerned the William S. Burroughs' obituary.

 

        *********************************************

        Dopo i misurati elogi della stampa "liberal",

        il "Wall Street Journal" parte all'attacco.

 

                BURROUGHS, L'AMERICA SI DIVIDE

                        di Eugenio Occorsio

 

        Era inevitabile che l'America giungesse ad un

        ''redde rationem'' con William Burroughs, il

        controverso profeta della beat generation morto

        di infarto il 2 agosto nel Kansas appena quattro

        mesi dopo l'altro ''poeta maledetto'' Allen

        Ginsberg. E' un processo tortuoso e sofferto,

        questa rivisitazione della figura dell'autore

        di ''Naked Lunch'', che si sta consumando in

        questi giorni insieme alle celebrazioni di

        Elvis Presley: il New York Times ha pubblicato

        un obituary volutamente asettico e didascalico

        pur definendolo ''scrittore rinnegato'', il

        Washington Post lo ha definito senza mezzi termini

        ''una genuina icona culturale'', il Los Angeles Times-

        citando peraltro i tanti ammiratori da Norman

        Mailer a Lou Reed- ha riferito con piu' convinzione

        nei giorni successivi le serrate critiche che lo

        dipingevano come un ''ciarlatano incomprensibile''.

        Ma e' soprattutto il Wall Street Journal, ultimo ma

        non minore, a scagliarsi non solo contro questo

        ''debosciato pornografo'' ma anche contro il resto

        della stampa americana, ''che lo ha trattato come fosse

        un'importante figura letteraria''.

                ''Burroughs, come prima di lui Kerouac- scrive

        ora il quotidiano- commetteva, fra le tante, una

        mistificazione: diceva di ispirarsi allo scrittore

        Jonathan Swift, per i suoi toni satirici e disincantati.

        Nulla di piu' sbagliato: Swift prende le distanze

        dalle aberrazioni e dalla degradazione che dipingeva,

        Burroughs invece vi e' immerso dentro. E' un opportunista

        che si autodefinisce ironico solo perche' cosi' cerca

        di proteggersi contro le azioni legali a suo carico

        per oscenita' ''. A differenza di Swift, ''non ha

        nessun ideale da contrapporre alle brutture che descrive''.

        Certo aggiunge il Journal, Burroughs, come gli altri

        Beats, ha lasciato il segno nella cultura americana e

        ha contribuito ad infrangere il muro di "reticente

        sensibilita'" che circondava la pornografia. E la sua

        "religione della droga" ha fatto si' che di questa si

        riuscisse a parlare con minore reticenze. Ma il tutto

        ''non ha rappresentato un successo, bensi' una penosa

        degenerazione''.

 

        copyright "la Repubblica" domenica 17 agosto 1997, p.34

        *******************************************************

 

i must note that in the italian media (Tv & Press) WSB isn't caned,

here there's an acceptance of the beat experience,

 

Rinaldo.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 05:23:25 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James William Marshall <dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>

Subject:      Re: New Format

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

  What's the deal with the new format?  Are we supposed to be doing

something differently?  I'd backchannel this to Bill but I don't have his

address.  My apologies for wasting bandwidth but perhaps there are others

with the same questions.

P.S. I haven't noticed any difference in my mail from this list.

 

                                                James M.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 11:03:28 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Burroughs and musical influences

MIME-Version: 1.0

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After someone dies, everything is written in the context of the fact that=

 he

is dead. All writings about Burroughs and Ginsberg now have an obituary f=

eel

to them. These days, obituary feels hyped, forced, politically correct. S=

o I

was interested to find these three older music reviews at Rolling Stone's

website (http://www.rollingstone.com), written about three distinct music=

al

contributions, as disparate as night and day, written at various times wh=

ile

William was still alive.

 

His influence is named, rather than claimed, in these reviews. I thought =

a

bunch of us might enjoy them.=20

 

The last sentence of the Iggy Pop review is a great philosophical stateme=

nt

that must have been intimately understood both by WSB and Kurt Cobain. Ma=

ybe

it should a tattoo inside the elbow-joint of everyone making art with wor=

ds

and music in the nihilistic Nineties, right where that vein pops up.

 

Diane De Rooy

........................

Clear

Bomb the Bass

 

In 1988, Tim Simenon was a teenage DJ making cut-and-paste hip-hop single=

s in

the style of fellow English mix masters Coldcut, S'Express and M/A/R/R/S.=

 His

first single, "Beat Dis," was intended to be a simple, faceless dance rec=

ord,

but it wound up catapulting Simenon into Britain's suffocating pop spotli=

ght.

By 1993, the DJ and producer had released two albums in Britain, "Into th=

e

Dragon" and "Unknown Territory," as Bomb the Bass.

 

Simenon has returned with his third Bomb the Bass album, "Clear," and it

demonstrates just how far he has come since those early days. The novelty=

 of

samplers has apparently worn off for Simenon, and what has emerged is a

proficient sweep through dub reggae, hip-hop, jazz, techno and the litera=

ry

collection of William S. Burroughs. With fewer electronic bites and more

original instrumentation, "Clear" is Simenon's most sophisticated work to

date.

 

On "Empire," an emotive ballad that plays on the similarity of the words

empire and vampire in describing England as a bloodsucking entity, Sinead

O'Connor duets with the delicate-voiced newcomer Benjamin Zephaniah to

beautiful effect. But it's the Los Angeles rapper Justin Warfield who is =

most

responsible for "Clear's" edgy, Beat-like quality. When Warfield waxes

lyrical about Willy Wonka over Simenon's drug-addled bassoon foundation o=

n

"Brain Dead" or flips the lines "Bug powder dust/To mugwump jism/The wild

boys running/Round interzone trippin'," on "Bug Powder Dust," it's appare=

nt

that this music is a far cry from typical hip-hop fare.

 

The album's smooth-flowing, laid-back jazz quality stands in stark contra=

st

to the original European release of "Clear," which carried a frenetic pac=

e

similar to flipping through television channels. Alternate versions - and

even song omissions (including a contribution from the author Will Self) =

-

make for an entirely different creation for the American audience, althou=

gh

both albums are equally worthwhile.

 

On "Clear," Bomb the Bass reaches well beyond the boundaries of the trip-=

hop

appellation to present tunes sweet to the ears and lyrics that stick in t=

he

mind.=20

-- TAMARA PALMER (RS 732)

.................................................

The Chronic/Black Sunday

Dr. Dre/Cypress Hill

Death Row/Interscope/Columbia

 

Wrapped in a Batman cloak of larger-than-life mayhem and straining its pa=

nts

with adolescent horniness, it's beloved by millions, black and white; the=

y

devour its percussive snap, crackle and pop. To adult white people, it's

anathema. But California hardcore rap is simply one of the most imaginati=

ve

sounds in the world today. Its radical wordplay mainstreaming the

scatological cut-up poetics that William Burroughs debuted in the '50s, i=

t

hurdles the aesthetic line in the sand that original rap drew when it beg=

an

to rethink rhythm, compositional method and studio technique so decisivel=

y

that it redefined the very perception of music itself. Along with the 12-=

tone

scale of modern classical fare, Ornette Coleman's free jazz and the trium=

ph

of punk attitude, the rap revolution is 20th-century fact.

 

At its vanguard are the gangstas. Formerly of the trailblazing N.W.A, Dr.=

 Dre

is the form's wizard producer. High-volume hypnotism, "The Chronic," like=

 the

marijuana it's named for, alters the senses. Mixing loping beats, smooth =

and

gruff voices from South Central, giggles, snarls and reggae intonations, =

it

updates the aural movies P-Funk (and psychedelia) once made. Its sounds a=

re

as raw and complex and real as life. The assaultive Dre and the more rela=

xed

Snoop Doggy Dogg (the latter formally charged with murder in September) m=

ay

be, to put it mildly, problematic souls, and romanticizing criminal behav=

ior

sucks. This music, however, cannot be refuted =96 or easily forgotten.

 

With "Black Sunday," Cypress Hill make baroque rap so arcane in its sampl=

es

(Bobbie Gentry, Black Sabbath, Joe Zawinul) and verbal references (sumo

wrestling, Louis Armstrong, "The Wizard of Oz") that the mind reels. This

crew, too, is made up of potheads. And next to their musical inventivenes=

s,

black-Latino hipness and zany comedy, most rappers seem as lame as old hi=

ppie

bands did next to Frank Zappa. Skull-strewn, their album art looks B-movi=

e

Gothic, but what's truly scary is their titanic, subversive intelligence.

--PAUL EVANS (RS 672/673)=20

......................................

Naughty Little Doggie

Iggy Pop

 

If Iggy Pop had died when most people expected him to -- back in the

mid-'70s, from an overdose of bad drugs and stage violence -- we would

probably be sitting around now wondering what kind of music he would have

made in his middle age. But the heavy chemicals and broken glass didn't k=

ill

him, and he's still cutting records, so here's your answer: In 1996, the =

Pop

is still singing about pussy. About needing it, getting it and how just

thinking about it is good for what ails him. With its hip-swing rhythm an=

d

irresistible idiot-mantra chorus, "Pussy Walk" is top-grade, lowbrow lovi=

n'.

Because in rock & roll, as in everything else, life is too short to waste=

 on

double-entendre.

 

At 48, Iggy Pop isn't punking out. "I'm better than a Pepsi/I'm cooler th=

an

MTV," he brags at the outset of "Naughty Little Doggie" over the shake 'n=

'

quake of "I Wanna Live." "Step up, it's fight time/ Kick, scratch and bit=

e

time." He's as good as his word for the most part, turning on the power-e=

lite

pricks in "Knucklehead" while losing himself in the burnt-heart howl of "=

To

Belong." And Iggy has not lost his lyric gifts for Burroughsian sleight o=

f

metaphor -- "The music sounds like dead ham" ("Knucklehead") -- and sly

menace. "Strangle that rock & roll star," he sings on "Outta My Head" wit=

h

just the right trace of irony. "Make him eat jizz."

 

But Iggy also carries the great weight of his own history; at this point =

in

his life, nothing short of total meltdown on record would eclipse the Mol=

otov

cock tales on "The Stooges," "Fun House" and "Raw Power." And "Doggie" fi=

nds

him struggling with the uneasy balance between the eternal joys of electr=

ic

fuck-you rock & roll and singing about the hard truth of being an outlaw =

for

life -- that you'll probably die alone. Iggy almost nails it in "Outta My

Head" with the wounded-animal way his voice bends slightly out of tune, b=

ut

the song cries out for more explicit guitar madness, more real blood on t=

he

frets.

 

"Look Away," though, is a potent admission of screwing up on China white =

and

cheap attitude. Amid references to Johnny Thunders' fatal mixed-up confus=

ion

and Iggy's own near-death experiences, electric and acoustic guitars blen=

d in

eerie, milky strumming as Iggy intones the words "look away" like some Ze=

n

chant and shows just how low you can go to get by. "I got lots of

feelings/But I hold them down," he sings at the end. "That's the way I

cope/With this shitty town."

 

If Iggy had died ahead of schedule, he would just be another rock & roll

martyr. Instead, the fun house is still open for business and, as he puts=

 it

here, "I'm deeper than the shit I'm in/An' I don't really give a damn."

Celebrity is great, but survival is the best revenge.=20

-- DAVID FRICKE (RS 728)

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 09:34:24 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: New Format

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

<<   What's the deal with the new format?  Are we supposed to be doing

something differently?  I'd backchannel this to Bill but I don't have

his

 address.>>

 

You point directly to the difficulty with the return to the current (and

original) format.  Under the interim format we have been operating under

for the last few months the default address that appeared when you hit

your "Reply" button was that of the person posting rather than the

list.  If you felt that your reply should go to the list rather than

only that one individual it was easy to erase the "Mail to" address and

plug in Beat-L from your address book.  Under this format the default

that appears in your "mail to" space is the list address.  It is easy to

change that if you have the individual in your address book.  If you

don't, however, you have to copy the individual address from the message

and plug it in.  This format makes backchannel harder unless the reply

is to one of your regular on-line buddies.

 

I am using the terms from Netscape mail, but most of the other mail

programs have very similar functions.

 

What I liked about the original format was that it made one think at

least once about whether the reply was one that ought to go to all 200

or so of us or was more personal or not global enough for the list.

This reduced list traffic alot and encouraged backchannel both of which

were good things in my view.

 

I think some folks failed to understand how easy it was to plug in the

List address or were using mail programs that may have made it harder.

This produced lobbying for a change back to the original format.  There

are some that liked the personal tone and the sort of cyber soap opera

that the original  format seems to me to create.  I can like that too,

but it takes a lot more time, and we keep losing good people from the

list because they know they have work they ought to be doing and the

list makes a marvelous excuse for not doing it.  The higher and more

frivilous the post volume  the greater the incentive to leave and we all

lose access to some wonderful expertise.  People keep leaving to finish

books.  Those are the sort of people we most need on Beat-L.

 

J. Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 09:44:57 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>

Subject:      Re: Naked Lunch: Chapter 1, up to Benway

In-Reply-To:  <33F6CC50.10CB@midusa.net>

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At 3:02 AM -0700 8/17/97, RACE --- wrote:

 

> runner wrote:

> >   Mixed this all up with my working

> > WSB ideas of the "big lie."

> >

> > http://www.electriciti.com/babu/images/Big_lie.html

> >

> > Douglas

> >

> > http://www.electriciti.com/babu/

>

> I'm not certain that "lie" is it.  Unless the Lie is in only one angle

> on truth.  It doesn't seem to me a particularly moralish notion as Lie

> sometimes suggests - what constitutes the Big Lie is factually accurate

> from a particular point of view, from a particular angle.  What is

> exposed is the multiplicity of angles.

 

 

yeah, got to thinking about that "lie" part also.  Was it similar to the

"original sin"?  Was it the "fall from heaven" that is basically in every

religion across the globe?  As if by being paranoid (as S.Dali does in his

paranoid-critical method of painting), one is, as you say, exposed to

multiple angels.  angles.

 

that you can't really trust anyone, and this is the foundation for

something larger.  Oh,  I don't know.  Have kinda lost that train of

thought now.  But, aha!  I now have a good set of questions to begin

"western lands" with (and perhaps some q's on Bloom, too....)

 

 

>

> i like your montage/collage.  it reminded me of an old friends stuff

> that he used to send through the mail - addressing the backside of

> something like that to friends.

 

Thanx!  yes, part of the diatribe that followed in my head rang with

Buckowski's great line "too all my friends" (as superbly announced by M.

Rourke in "Bar Fly").  And from there, got to thinking about the big three

beats and how they are now dead.  all dead.  But not all dead.  Wasn't it

Rinaldo who posted the "who'se who" of beatness?  All these people.

Including Buckowski (sp?), I suppose.  I guess I'm saying that we have a

lot to talk about.  Or possible to talk about.  A lot of friends left on

the table...

 

I'd like to know who the beat artists were.  Robert Williams and S. Clay

Wilson come to mind.  Then there's the guy who did Hunter S. Thomspon's

novels.  The photographer Robert Frank has worked with Patti Smith a few

times.  Don't know if it's fair to include Robert Mapplethorpe or Annie

Leibovitz for their portraiture.  Who else?  Brion G. of course.

 

ah, time to find some coffee.  and perhaps a used bookstore or two.  Need

to find a Yves Tanguey book!

 

>

> david rhaesa

> salina, Kansas

 

Douglas

 

 

http://www.electriciti.com/babu/        |   0   |

step aside, and let the man go thru     |  { -  |

        ---->  let the man go thru      |  /\   |

super bon-bon (soul coughing)           =========

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 10:20:28 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>

Subject:      Re: Naked Lunch

In-Reply-To:  <33F6CD13.40EA@midusa.net>

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At 3:06 AM -0700 8/17/97, RACE --- wrote:

 

 

> the idea of reading it with others seems a nice idea.  i hope you decide

> to read it.

>

> this and the message to douglas are probably examples of what just as

> well might be backchanneled ... i fall easily into the trap that the new

> format creates and James Stauffer so elegantly slammed.

 

oh god, what is the list thinking of me now?

another round of arrows or a bbq in my honor?

oh, it's a book signing, oh hell

 

I had the same thoughts on my cutup thread with Bentz.  How would we put

this poem to music?  Who cares?!  I don't know.  Am glad that it ended when

it did, before someone pulled out the machete and started hacking their

computer to death.  Surprised James didn't write me personally and tell me

to shut the fuck up.

 

Basically, I'd agree that the previous format was good for backchannelling.

I actually liked it better that way myself.  so Bill Gargan, considering

your email always bounces,  I hope you're reading this:  add my vote to the

idea of returning to the previous format.  and who knows, they might start

regulating sperm any day now, too...

 

 

 

it's the miracle of the lie.    yep, that's what Exene and Lydia Lunch, I

believe, talked about when they cruised words and attitudes thru various

towns a few years back.  Trashing Courney Love, the Unabomber, and the

media that permeates this planet.  How fashion and their zero dollar

attitude can revolutionize life.  That if you believe the big lies handed

down to you, that god is good, that big government is out to protect you,

that your doctor knows what's best for you, that that etc.  just manhandled

here and there without any factual support.  If you believe, then yes, you

are saved.

 

 

>

> david rhaesa

> salina, Kansas

 

Douglas

 

 

http://www.electriciti.com/babu/        |   0   |

step aside, and let the man go thru     |  { -  |

        ---->  let the man go thru      |  /\   |

super bon-bon (soul coughing)           =========

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 13:18:36 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      new format

 

I want to thank James for summing up the pros and cons of both the past

and current "reply" formats.  The current format will make it easier for

those who want to send their message to the whole list.  However, this

means that you have to think about whether you want your message to go

to the whole list or just to the person sending the message.   If people

begin to post messages to the list that are intended only for the sender

or begin to engage in private conversations on the list, then James is

right:  the traffic on the list will become overwhelmingand people who

find their mailboxes full of irrelevant messages will sign-off the list.

I guess if we find that this happens, we'll have to change the

"reply"default back.    Also, please remember when replying to long

messages to "snip" or summarize the message you're replying to rather

than repeat the whole message as some people have been doing.  This will

save us all some time.  Taking care to correctly identify the "subject"

of your message will also help, allowing those who are uninterested in

that subject to delete your post without having to read it.  I'm very

happy to see some exciting threads developing and that we're back to

discussing literature again.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 14:04:11 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: new format

 

In a message dated 97-08-17 13:30:06 EDT, you write:

 

<< Also, please remember when replying to long

 messages to "snip" or summarize the message you're replying to >>

 

Yeah... puhleeze...

 

Since the posts come out of order frequently, it seems like it would be a

good idea to make sure the original sender's name is in that line at the top,

the one that says, "In a message dated x/y/z, Suzie Creemcheeze writes:"

instead of that stock retort, which says only "...you write:".

 

That way people can find the original post, in case it did arrive after the

reply.

 

But if the only thing that results from the formatting discussion is a

cessation of personal posts to the list, that will certainly be enough.

 

ddr

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 14:15:50 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      format

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I can elect to reply to the poster or to all.  This was true under the

old format too.  I then can delete one if I care to do so.  The "old"

format is easier to back channel.  The new one is more difficult to back

channel but easier to reply to the list.  Under the old one, people

could get messages twice when someone wanted to reply to the list and

hit reply to sender and and all receipents.  So, it is possible to get

dual messages when one forgets to erase the individual.  To me, I don't

care.  It just seems you make a choice for it to be easier to back

channel or easier to reply on the list.  Either way, duplicates or

undesirable email will be in the mail box.

 

Bill, I vote for either way and do not care.  I presume that you

switched back because of requests.  Now the other side requests to go

back.  Suits me either way.

 

And it does seem that your email bounces.  Why is that?

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 03:17:48 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: new format

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I, for one, am thrilled with the change back to original format.  Thanks

Bill!  I don't think it's terribly hard to remember that your post is

being read by 200+ people and should be written as such.

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 04:01:06 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Naked Lunch: Chapter 1, up to Benway

Comments: cc: SSASN@AOL.COM

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> RACE wrote:

> What i am

> suggesting also in no way is a claim that your current reading is a

> misunderstanding or misconception.  Rather what i'm trying to find the

> words to breakthrough with here is that the beginning section can be

> read as developing a far more general theory concerning addiction and

> control and even Control with a capital "C".  Such a reading views the

> poetry of junk as a poetic example of the larger notion.

>         The particular kind of vicious cycle described here is a

> powerful

> general theory which can be translated across addictions and even as

> far

> as considering addictions to the virus of words and the control of

> space/time and the addiction to finding immortality.  Throughout the

> writings of WSB, it always seems to me, that coming back to these

> beginnings in Naked Lunch can provide a powerful lens into the future

> project.

 

It is easy to view the beginning of Naked Lunch as about junk literally,

and on another level, as a breaking down of society as a whole into

groups that feed and play off one another in terms of who has control and

who is caught in the mirky depths of no control, those people scattered

about, needing the kind of hand-me-downs, caught in the you-get-

only-what-we-want-you-to-have spiral.  Space/time distortions are evident

in the movement of the narrator. There is an analysis of need that

transcends time and place, so to speak. I'm having trouble here, early

on though, in having any grasp your "virus of words" concept.

 

> The second thing is that the technique employed in developing Naked

> Lunch of cut-up (cut and paste, splice, word montage - whatever) both

> presents a clear picture and something of a non-linear image that

> breaks

> through pre-recordings.  In reading WSB, one can merely accept the

> pre-recording of the book as published or appreciate this version and

> also glance around the montage of words for portraits of further

> meanings yet to be exposed.

I am trying to be open to all possible meanings as I read this.  Is

Burroughs' pre-recorded universe the comings and goings of daily life,

touched as it is by the element of fate?  The individuals in the junk

(broadly used) world he is writing about seem to have little power to

ease the futility of their situation.  Does the narrator have power in

his observations and the words he uses, or is he merely a scribe forced

to write about that which he cannot change?

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 04:18:22 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Naked Lunch: Chapter 1, up to Benway

Comments: cc: SSASN@AOL.COM

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> RACE wrote:

> I'm not certain that "lie" is it.  Unless the Lie is in only one angle

> on truth.  It doesn't seem to me a particularly moralish notion as Lie

> sometimes suggests - what constitutes the Big Lie is factually accurate

> from a particular point of view, from a particular angle.  What is

> exposed is the multiplicity of angles.

Maybe I'm missing something but where did this idea of the Big Lie come

from?  It seems to me that Burrough's notion of the universe is equal

part big lie and big truth.  The notion of a creator playing with the

creation comes to mind.  There's a natural order of things and an

inversion of the natural order of things.

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 15:24:29 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Skau <mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>

Subject:      missile anus

Content-Type: text

 

Greetings!

1) I like the new format (that is, the old format to which we have

returned);

2) regarding the romantic possibility that Burroughs died because his

true love Ginsberg died: as Jake says in the conclusion of Hemingway's

_The Sun Also Rises_, "Isn't it pretty to think so."

Jack Kerouac: "Unrequited love's a bore."

3) regarding C. Plymell's "remorsing" over the number of dead animals

on the road, you might find amusing the following poem of mine published

in the _Kentucky Poetry Review_ (Fall/Winter 1989/1990):

                SIGNS

GAME CROSSING the sign read--

I imagined them hunkering across

I-80: Monopoly, Clue, Backgammon, Chess.

The chicken that crossed the road

to tell a joke. Debris is grimmer:

prairie dogs crushed on the pavement (blackbirds

dart down, daring the traffic for a carcass

morsel), and wolves, raccoons, and skunks

punctuate the margin of the highway.

Were they thrown there by the impact,

or did they drag their battered bodies

there to die, escaping further

shame as tire-desecrated corpses,

cantilevered jaws agape in deadly empty screams?

Cordially,

Mike Skau

8/17/97

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 16:28:02 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      bless you, bill!

In-Reply-To:  <BEAT-L%1997081713294955@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Also, please remember when replying to long

messages to "snip" or summarize the message you're replying to rather

than repeat the whole message as some people have been doing.  This will

save us all some time.  Taking care to correctly identify the "subject"

of your message will also help, allowing those who are uninterested in

that subject to delete your post without having to read it.  I'm very

happy to see some exciting threads developing and that we're back to

discussing literature again.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 04:38:42 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Naked Lunch passage

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I don't know if all editions of Naked Lunch have the same page numbers,

but this passage is on pages 19-20.  It seemed important, beyond

elements of pot paranoia, and effective, but I can't explain why.  Is

Jane is real-life wife?  Does anyone have any ideas about interpretation?

 

"...Jane meets a pimp trombone player and dissappears in a cloud of tea

smoke.  The pimp is one of these vibration and dietary artists--which

means he degrades the female sex by forcing his chicks to swallow all his

shit.  He was continually enlarging his theories...he would quiz a chick

and threaten to walk out if she hadn't memorized every nuance of his

latest assault on logic and the human image...He was a ritual tea smoker

and very puritanical about junk the way some teaheads are.  He claimed

tea put him in touch with supra blue gravitational fields.  He had ideas

on every subject: what kind of underwear was healthy, when to drink

water, and how to wipe your ass.  He had a shiny red face and great

spreading smooth nose, little red eyes that lit up when he looked at a

chick and went out when he looked at anything else.  His shoulders were

broad and suggested deformity.  He acted as if other men did not exist,

conveying his restaurant and store orders to male personnel through a

female intermidiary.  And no Man ever invaded his blighted, secret place.

So he is putting down junk and coming on with tea.  I take three drags,

Jane looked at him and her flesh crystallized.  I leaped up screaming 'I

got the fear!' and ran out of the house.  Drank a beer in a little

restaurant--mosaic bar and soccer scores and bullfight posters--and

waited for the bus to town.

A year later in Tangier I heard she was dead."

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 16:37:16 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Eric Blanco <Chimera@WEBTV.NET>

Subject:      Re: Naked Lunch: Chapter 1, up to Benway

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           I like "There's a natural order of

things and an inversion of the natural order of things." I feel that

best sums

up the world NL takes place in: if not

the inversion of the natural order of

things, then certainly the world (or his

view of the it) turned inside out (?). The

negative of what we perceive as reality.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 17:07:24 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Naked Lunch

 

In a message dated 97-08-17 16:58:34 EDT, you write:

 

<<  Who cares?!  I don't know.  Am glad that it ended when

 it did, before someone pulled out the machete and started hacking their

 computer to death.  Surprised James didn't write me personally and tell me

 to shut the fuck up. >>

 

Is this a disease of newsgroups? This pissy, petulant sarcasm launched

against even the slightest of rubs?

 

This is the kind of crap that has made me sign off three times so far.

 

Douglas, shut the fuck up, okay?

 

diane

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 05:31:22 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Naked Lunch: Benway

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This actually is beginning to read more like scenes from a movie script,

or maybe it's just that the content of Benway reminds me of some old

fuzzy Planet of the Apes movie.  Close to walking through the wards of an

ugly insane asylum but I'm always wondering why the narrator is on the

outside looking in.  Couple of things to note:

 

pg. 37

"Gentle reader, the ugliness of that spectacle buggers description.  Who

can be a cringing pissing coward, yet vicious as a purple-assed mandril,

alternating these deplorable conditions like vaudeville skits?  Who can

shit on a fallen adversary who, dying, easts the shit and screams with

joy? [this was reminiscent stanzas of Howl that all being with who,

and especially where Ginsberg writes, "Who let themselves be fucked in

the ass by saintly motorcyclists and screemed with joy"]  Who can hang a

weak passive and catch the sperm in his mouth like a vivious dog?  Gentle

reader, I fain would spare you this, but my pen hath its will like the

Ancient Mariner.  Oh Christ what a scene is this!  Can tongue or pen

accommodate these scandels?  A beastly young hooligan has gouged out the

eye of his confrere and fuck him in the brain. 'This brain atrophy

already, and dry as grandmother's cunt."

 

You have to admire Burroughs vivid descriptions, although it's hard to

figure out what brings about these visions where everything is out of

Control:

 

"Rock and Roll adolescent hoodlums storm the streets of all nations.

They rush into the Louvre and throw acid on Mona Lisa's face.  They open

zoos, insane asylums, prisons, burst water mains with air hammers, chop

the floor out of passenger plane lavatories, shoot out lighthouses, file

elevator cables to one thin wire, turn sewers into the water supply,

throw sharks and sting rays, electric eels and candiru into swimming

pools (the candiru is a small eel-like fish or worm about one-quarter

inch through and two inches long patronizing certain rivers of ill repute

in the Greater Amazon Basin, will dart up your prick or your asshole or a

woman's cunt faute de mieux, and hold himself there by sharp spines with

precisely what motives is not known since no one has stepped forward to

observe the candiru's life-cycle in situ), in nautical costumes ram the

Queen Mary full speed into New York Harbor, play chicken with passenger

planes and buses, rush into hospital with white coats carrying saws and

axes and scalpels three feet long; throw paralytics out of iron lungs

(mimic their suffocations flopping about on the floor and rolling their

eyes up), administer injections with bicycle pumps, disconnect artificial

kidneys, saw a woman in half with a two-man surgical saw, they drive

herds of squeeling pigs into the Curb, they shit on the floors of the

United Nations and wipe their asses with treaties, pacts, and alliances."

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 05:38:05 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      On the Road: drunkenness

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On the Road, pg. 39, when he is describing Dean's (Neal's) father,

Kerouac writes, "His father, once a respectable and hardworking tinsmith,

had become a wine alcoholic, which is worse than a whiskey alcoholic..."

 

>From Kerouac's descriptions in all the later books, he was himself always

drinking wine and not whiskey.  Why is a wine alcoholic worse than a

whiskey alcoholic?  Any ideas?

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 14:39:09 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Naked Lunch

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Diane De Rooy wrote:

>

> This is the kind of crap that has made me sign off three times so far.

>

> Douglas, shut the fuck up, okay?

>

Diane,

 

Thanks for rising to my defense.  Hadn't noticed doug's little poke

before you pointed it out because I had been instantly deleting him--as

you tend to do with folks who post so much that they need several

different addresses to avoid having any problems with the ten post

limit, or whatever it is.

 

Was it Yeats who said, "The best lack all conviction/ While the worst

are full of a passionate intensity"?

 

J Stauffer

> diane

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 17:45:59 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: On the Road: drunkenness

In-Reply-To:  <33F6F0AD.1B7B@together.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

it all sounds like changing seats on the titanic, to me.

hey DC!

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 15:08:54 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         runner <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>

Subject:      event horizon (theory & spoilers)

Mime-Version: 1.0

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ok, just mustered home from the movie, "event horizon".  some comments:

 

ok, perhaps in the battle of death vs aesthetics, I am willing to concede

that death has the final hand.  <<perhaps>>  movie questions the big lie,

technology, human experience, and the reaches of understanding.  Very

similar to Lem's "solaris" (and as filmed by Tarkovsky).

 

you build a machine, you keep secrets, you explore.  thing returns with

life of own.  Crew destroyed by madness and their own hells.  The machine

is alive, sir.  The machine is alive.  "do you see?"  "yes, I see".

 

oh, how technology is used to enhance our lives.  this goes without

question.  optimism has seen blood shed, has become academic shooting

galleries.  heroine for the brain.  william tell for the soul.  fuck you,

fuck you.

 

oh, I have to admit the movie scares me.  Scares me like Naked Lunch scares

me.  Remember making it thru half of the book and then putting it down,

running in horror.  Still don't think I have enough of a grip on life to

read it again.

 

and then writing out of it.  believing that creativity is the life raft of

a consciousness.  not blocking its progress with the whatfors, the

questions of what makes _its_ inner workings tick.  This is another lie.

That outside of technology, outside of humour, outside of it all, there

rests another solution.  Well, I guess there are solutions.  There are

fail-safe plans.  And the overrides?  What of them?  The machine is alive,

I tell you.  Do you see?  "yes, I see".

 

Oedipus and his mother, his father, his adopted parents, his children.

Fucking tragic tale.  Wish I knew more about it.  How it relates to the

popcorn I was eating, how it relates to the lady behind me who jokingly

remarked to her companion, "ah, the best capitalism has to offer".  What is

that,  I wondered, not wanting to turn around and ask.

 

and in this chaotic vision, there are those that refuse to return.  those

will live.  yes, those that will life.  Probably why in pre-enlightened

days, such knowledge was preserved in a few people, knowledge was granted

over time in strict, controlled ways.  All of that is gone now.  Reading

before the movie a new book by Todd Oldham, fashion designer.  He's talking

about how 100, no 30 years ago, "creativity" must have been different.  No

pressing techo eyes forcing their, causing your own eyes to bug out.  He

says that only he, he has survived because of an "idiot savant" tendancy.

just flits and trusts his way around.  Takes care of his people, I imagine.

 

and it's why I think literature and all it's cracked up to be on this list

is such a big houey.  Life is bigger than a few interesting posts on

"literature".  Oh, so glad to be talking about "literature" again.  Just an

academic shooting gallery for control freaks, IMHO.  been there, done that,

and don't want to return just yet, thank you.  Oh, I don't know.  I don't

know.

 

am wondering if and what WSB would have said.  Does Naked Lunch have a

happy ending?  Thinking about a question Diane Carter asked a while back

regarding Kerouac and his view of the world?  Something like, "where has

the joy in the joy/darkness paradigm gone?".  Hm.  You create something to

run away from something else.  And what you've created begins a life of

it's own.  And then wham bam thank you mame, you're back where you started

from.  The vicious cycle.  the vicious cycle.

 

so what role does death play?  The movie "event horizon" gives a few clues

in that direction.  It fuels the fire is all I can say.  all  I can say

without rambling on more.  without bringing in other references.  Fire walk

with me.  Firewalker.

 

returning to the son, I used to be.  Hell me, I'm falling....

 

>> Douglas

 

 

http://www.electriciti.com/babu/        |   0   |

step aside, and let the man go thru     |  { -  |

        ---->  let the man go thru      |  /\   |

super bon-bon (soul coughing)           =========

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 15:13:17 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James William Marshall <dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>

Subject:      Re: new format

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>In a message dated 97-08-17 13:30:06 EDT, you write:

 

>In a message dated x/y/z, Suzie Creemcheeze writes:

>If the only thing that results from the formatting discussion is a

>cessation of personal posts to the list, that will certainly be enough.

>

>ddr

>

  What's a "personal post"?  I've got an idea but it's making me giggle.

  If it's left to the individual subscriber to decide what is

list-pertinent, there's still no way to avoid getting messages which may be

better sent privately [like that one which told Douglas (I believe it was)

to "shut the fuck up"].

  Anyway, I'm all for the new format as I understand it.  It's no different.

People are going to be shits under any format.

 

                                                    James M.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 06:29:42 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Naked Lunch

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

> James Stauffer wrote:

 

> Was it Yeats who said, "The best lack all conviction/ While the worst

> are full of a passionate intensity"?

 

Yes, in his poem, The Second Coming.  He also said in the same verse:

"The falcon cannot hear the falconer;

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;

Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world"

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 19:42:40 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "P.A.Maher" <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Some of the Dharma - Publisher Weeklys reviews

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

I have posted Publisher Weekly's review of Some of the Dharma:

 

http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/page3.html

 

Please send me any clippings of this book via e-mail for web page posting.

 

Thanks, Paul of The Kerouac Quarterly. . .

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 19:28:40 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Carrie Sherlock <csherloc@UOGUELPH.CA>

Subject:      Lou Reed and the Beats

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

What was the extent of the relationship with, or the influence of, the

beats and Lou Reed?

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 20:41:47 -0400

Reply-To:     Corduroy <corduroy@earthlink.net>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Corduroy <corduroy@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      DigitalDharma

Comments: To: Bohemian Mailing List <BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

 Digital Dharma

 

 

http://www.microaero.com/snarg/index_main.html

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 18:04:27 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Some of the Dharma - Publisher Weeklys reviews

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Thanks for this Paul,

 

The Kirkus review was strange in its' hostility.

 

That bothers me none.  I have no problem with opinions.  But in this case

the writers ignorance was shown.

 

He/She wrote that it seemed Kerouac was trying to imitate Burroughs cut-up

technique.

 

kerouac was working on this between 53 and 55 or so, a number of years

before Burroughs began the cut-up as we know it.

 

The writer acts as if kerouac read Burroughs books or something and was

imitating them.

 

 

At 07:42 PM 8/17/97 -0400, you wrote:

>I have posted Publisher Weekly's review of Some of the Dharma:

>

>http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/page3.html

>

>Please send me any clippings of this book via e-mail for web page posting.

>

>Thanks, Paul of The Kerouac Quarterly. . .

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 17 Aug 1997 22:16:21 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "P.A.Maher" <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: Some of the Dharma - Publisher Weeklys reviews

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 06:04 PM 8/17/97 -0700, you wrote:

>Thanks for this Paul,

>

>The Kirkus review was strange in its' hostility.

>

>That bothers me none.  I have no problem with opinions.  But in this case

>the writers ignorance was shown.

>

>He/She wrote that it seemed Kerouac was trying to imitate Burroughs cut-up

>technique.

>

>kerouac was working on this between 53 and 55 or so, a number of years

>before Burroughs began the cut-up as we know it.

>

>The writer acts as if kerouac read Burroughs books or something and was

>imitating them.

>

>

>At 07:42 PM 8/17/97 -0400, you wrote:

>>I have posted Publisher Weekly's review of Some of the Dharma:

>>

>>http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/page3.html

>>

>>Please send me any clippings of this book via e-mail for web page posting.

>>

>>Thanks, Paul of The Kerouac Quarterly. . .

>>

>>

>Yes. . .it was a very slanted view from what seemed to be a critic

disturbed by Kerouac's seemingly misogynistic tone "PRETTY GIRLS MAKE GRAVES

F**K you all"

It is best not to approach such a biased review intellectually. Kerouac put

up with such nonsense (i.e. Norman Podhoretz for example) all his life. I

think Some of the Dharma tops the best of his published works. It is a

searching, mature, experimental writer we are reading by this time (mid -

1950's).

Best, Paul. . .

 



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