Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 16:34:12 -0500
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From: "Donald E. Winters"
<winte030@TC.UMN.EDU>
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Brian:
I'm glad to see that you're entering the world of Beat. Although I'm
quite a
few decades older than you, my 17-year old son is beginning to explore
the
Beats. Let me just suggest some works
that I suggested to him and that you
might
enjoy. Other than the Beat
"classics" like Kerouac's "On the Road,"
"Dharma
Bums," "The Sunterraneans," etc., Ginsberg's "Howl"
and Burroughs'
novels,
"Naked Lunch," "Soft Machine" and "Nova Express,"
you probably will want
to read
such wonderful poetry as all of Ferlinghetti's "Coney Island of the
Mind,"
Gregory Corso's "Army," "Marriage," and countless
others. I don't have
time to
even scratch the surface right now but I would be happy to try to make
other
suggestions if you contact me at my e-mail address: winte030@tc.umn.edu
Happy
reading, Donald
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 17:32:28 -0400
Reply-To: cosmicat@holeintheweb.com
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From: cosmicat@HOLEINTHEWEB.COM
Subject: beat-l archive
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Bill,
Have
you considered burning a CD-ROM of the archives. surely someone
around
the beat-l has a cd-rom recorder. a cd holds approximately
700megabytes.
this would make for rapid recovery of topics instead of
having
to notate, label and search floppies. more permanent medium, too.
just a
thought.
have a
good day,
michael
nally
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 18:55:44 -0400
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From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Comments on the Estate Battle
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At
10:32 AM 10/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>
Jan's request to Gerry is part of her will. Her will was recorded and is
>>
legal.John Sampas and Jan's ex-husband are trying to get her will changed.
>>
If they were trying to get lines deleted from one of Jan's books every
>>
writer in the country would be up in arms. But a writer's will appears to
>>
interest no one except a few people who were close to her when she died and
>>
a few others who have much to gain by getting Nicosia removed as Jan's
>>
literary executor.
>>
>
>What
is Jan's ex-husband's interest in this?
Why would he care one way
>or
another, unless maybe the Sampas family is paying him? Is this what
>is
being implied here?
>
>Also
I know from later editionsof OTR that Jan got her name on the
>copyrightr
when it was renewed (that must have been another court fight
>with
the Sampases I asume) So she must have
benefited finacially from
>sales
of OTR the last few years before her death right? If so, it
>wouldnt
be fair of the Sampases to portray her as simply being after the
>money.
>
>This
is all very interesting indeed!
>
I wish
I had Jan Kerouac's money....
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 18:59:29 -0400
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From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Jack'l lat letter
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At
01:40 PM 10/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Me
as well.
>
>Jon(jrpick@maila.wm.edu)
>
>At
12:14 PM 10/18/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>J.
Grant: I would be very interested in seeing a copy of the letter by
>Kerouac
>>on
his death bed. My e-mail address is: winte030@tc.umn.edu Thanks, Donald
>>
>>
>Hey
Jo Grant, can I see that letter too? I need it to show John Sampas so I
can get
plenty of new material for The Kerouac Quarterly!
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 19:02:30 -0400
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From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
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At
04:30 PM 10/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
>We
dont want to get anone (Bill Gargan etc) associated with the beat list
>sued
though. I take it that the Sampas
family has threatened to sue the
>Beat-L
list moderators or organizers in the past for inappropriate postings?
>
No how
about a prominent voice on this list who has you all waylaid with
propaganda?
He threatened to sue the college and moderator when he was
losing
his battle like Hitler in the bunker before he took his life....
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 16:11:55 -0700
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From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: dead people don't have any money
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>I
wish I had Jan Kerouac's money....
Umm...
I'm sorry to break the news to you but Jan kerouac is dead.
She
doesn't have any money.
Unless
you are burning some for her now.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 18:04:57 -0500
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From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
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I
thought that gerald won that battle, I
certainly didn't get a good
impression
of you or phil and not of sampas. that battle showed me a
weary
warrior, who had lost his perspective but not his immortal soul.
i never
saw the self serving man you tried to make out, unless it was a
fleeting
reflection of the magazine editor serving his master. i saw
and
heard a man that struggled against ugly assaults to do what he
thought
was right. I was sickened with the loss
of his talents to other
efforts,
but i would never fault him for his motives.
Paul A.
Maher Jr. wrote:
>
> At
04:30 PM 10/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>We dont want to get anone (Bill Gargan etc) associated with the beat list
>
>sued though. I take it that the
Sampas family has threatened to sue the
>
>Beat-L list moderators or organizers in the past for inappropriate
postings?
>
>
> No
how about a prominent voice on this list who has you all waylaid with
>
propaganda? He threatened to sue the college and moderator when he was
>
losing his battle like Hitler in the bunker before he took his life....
>
"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our
virtues."
>
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 18:22:26 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Dana Lee Kober
<dana@SPIDERLINE.COM>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.32.19971018162429.00688cd4@maila.wm.edu>
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On Sat,
18 Oct 1997, Jonathan Pickle wrote:
> I
think a better question is why were you drawn to it. Why do you feel
>
that the youth of today are finding solace in JK and AG and WSB and the
>
others?
>
>
Jon
>
>
PS- as far as quotes go. I can't
pick. I've got about a hundred from OTR
>
alone.
>
I'm 20
and became interested in "beatniks" in HS, although i never posed
as one
because i look terrible in a beret :) I
don't remember how I came
across
Kerouac, although I thought his name was funny at first, and I
decided
I wanted to read him. My first book was
"The Dharma Bums" on tape
I got
from the library. I listened to it
every morning while I was in the
shower. I ended up taking a lot of long
showers. I had already studied
religion
in HS and was drawn to buddhism although I already dismissed it
at the
time I "read" TDB, but I liked the way Jack wrote. I read Jack
because
his life was more exciting than mine. When I read a book, if it's
good, I
live in it. I like living in Jack's
books. I like that he is
"imperfect". I like the living by the seat of your pants,
float around
America
routine. Hitchhiking is no longer safe
in America, especially for
a
girl. America has changed but I can
read about it through Jack. If I
were
alive in that era I wouldn't be involved anyhow. Females were
excluded
for the most part, they were just "made". I like how JK
describes
women though. I don't think On The Road
is the best book for
people
to read first if they want to get into Kerouac. Some think it's
boring,
just travelling back and forth, back and forth, and it is just
that. I think a precursor would be The Dharma Bums
or The Subterraneans.
If one
can get over Jack's lack of punctuation (which I personally love!)
and
read these books first then one would enjoy OTR better.
Blah
blah blah..
is that
what you wanted Brian?
BTW,
what's your major?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 19:53:08 -0400
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From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Comments on the Estate Battle
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At
03:36 PM 10/18/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>>
Jan's request to Gerry is part of her will. Her will was recorded and is
>>>
legal.John Sampas and Jan's ex-husband are trying to get her will changed.
****John
Lash and John Sampas have two separate cases. Dont't blend the two.
>>>
If they were trying to get lines deleted from one of Jan's books every
>>>
writer in the country would be up in arms. But a writer's will appears to
>>>
interest no one except a few people who were close to her when she died and
>>>
a few others who have much to gain by getting Nicosia removed as Jan's
>>>
literary executor.
>>>
>>
>>What
is Jan's ex-husband's interest in this?
Why would he care one way
>>or
another, unless maybe the Sampas family is paying him? Is this what
>>is
being implied here?
****No,
he simply has more say about Jan Kerouac's estate than Gerald
Nicosia.
He has a right to assert that authority in a court of law like
anybody
else.
>>Also
I know from later editionsof OTR that Jan got her name on the
>>copyrightr
when it was renewed (that must have been another court fight
>>with
the Sampases I asume)
*****You
assume wrong, STOP ASSUMING!
So she
must have benefited finacially from
>>sales
of OTR the last few years before her death right? If so, it
>>wouldnt
be fair of the Sampases to portray her as simply being after the
>>money.
****Ans
so what if she was? Isn't everybody? It's too bad a bogus lawsuit
had to
hasten her death.
>>
>>This
is all very interesting indeed!
***Indeed!
>Actually
Jan treated he ex very wellin her will. He will receive her
>royalties
which will provide him with around $50 thou a year. Seems like a
>lot,
but for Jan, with her medical problems, it was very little.
>
>Her
ex, with help from John Sampas, is trying to get Gerry Nicosia removed
>as
Jan's lierary executor. They want him out because he is pursuing the law
>suit
in St. Pete, FL which will probably prove that Memere's signature on
>the
will that left everything ot Stella, was forged.
****I
think you had better say "allegedly" forged. John Sampas wouldn't
know
it was
forged, he wasn't there. He last saw Memere and Jack just before they
left
for Florida and then went to Florida many years after they were buried.
>
>Government
handwriting experts say the signature is not memere's.
*****Yes,
the person who said it was a forgery also said Vince Foster's
suicide
note was a forgery. It was later proved to be the real thing. No
more
Clinton Cabinet conspiracies.
>
>The
fellow who signed the will as the witness to Memere's signing has
>admitted
that he did not see her sign the will. Was told she had by John
>Sampas.
>
******Again!
He wasn't there, he would not know the will was a forgery.
>If
the suit in Florida is successful, the keroauc colletion wil go into a
>major
library--probably NY Public of UC Berkeley. Both are wiling to pay a
>mil
for the collection.
*****Substantiate
this......alll you can repeat is hearsay.
This would leave, Jack's nephew, the Sampas
segment
>(unless
the forgery turns into a criminal charge), and jan's ex, John Lash,
>with
a substantial piece of the sale price. enpough for everyone to be
>happy,
UNLESS you're sitting on it all and want it all.
>
>I'l
get a copy of the letter ready.
yes do
that please, you are Mr. Nicosia's puppet. Another lemming going over
the
cliff.
>
>I'll
include notes that Gerry Nicosia made when I first sought information
>on
it.
>
****great!
Good source you have there Mr. Grant.
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 19:58:53 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
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>
>Read
Jack's last letter, written to his nephew the day before he died. If
>you
do not have a copy I'll send you one--even tho I have been threaten
>with
law suits by John Sampas over the copy I have.
>
>j
grant
>
>Lets
see....Jack was in the hospital the day before he died, in fact he had
just
finished hemorrhaging the day before he died. Jack was capable of
writing
or saying anything. His mannerisms and eccentricities led to all
kinds
of changes in his thinking. When he said it was raining Greeks is that
the
same as when he called Blacks "Niggers" or women "cunts"?
He said what
he wanted
but it didn't mean he meant every bit of it. You all should do
some
intelligent research and come up with your own ideas instead of taking
one
person's word for it.
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 20:00:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: dead people don't have any money
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At
04:11 PM 10/18/97 -0700, you wrote:
>>I
wish I had Jan Kerouac's money....
>
>Umm...
I'm sorry to break the news to you but Jan kerouac is dead.
>
>She
doesn't have any money.
>
>Unless
you are burning some for her now.
>
Her
money is in trust, there is a lot of it. There "was" a lot of it when
she was
living. You know what I meant. Don't be such a dumbass.
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 20:16:29 +0000
Reply-To: randyr@southeast.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>
From: randy royal
<randyr@MAILHUB.JAXNET.COM>
Subject: Re: beat
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>
i'm an eighteen year-old college student just introduced to the world of jack
>
kerouac and the beat genre........
i'm
fairly new too, but i guess i can answer a few questions.
>
it's been truly interesting to listen to these feuds about jack's estate and
>
all, each side of the "debate", such and such.......but.......
>
>
since people like me, and i am sure there are more like me, are not too in
>
tune with the whole beat atmosphere; perhaps as a couple of side e-mails
>
people could take off of these bloodbaths against each other and get back to
>
the heart of the literature...
agreed.
>
some questions i would like to ask Each of you:
>
what draws you to this genre?
the
style at first. i was amazed how jack kerouac could make one
flowing
sentence/paragraph on one main topic for a few pages,
when
most people i know would barely make a small sentence.
now i
am mostly drawn to the philosphy and meaning of the peotry.
>
what is so important about it? in the role of america or the world?
didn't
ferlinghetti once say that peotry needs to be dragged out of
the
college lecture hall and onto the street? in america it broke the
Wall
for the hippies in the sixties. but i think that "beat" is
beyond
time, kinda like enlightenment in a way. anyone can achieve it
thru
vigilance.
>
where is it headed, if anywhere?
we
discussed this somewhat in the summer. i think james s. said
something
to the effect that progressive
literature is easily found
on the
internet. levi's coffehouse book comes to mind.
>
how have these authors and poets impacted your lives?
reopened
eastern philosphy for me. basically showed me a thru the
looking
glass
>
etc.....etc.......the trivial things that are the most important
>
sometimes........otherwise, the legal mumbo jumbo will get old unless
>
balanced with another topic....
>
>
brian
>
randy
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 18:24:10 -0600
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From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: dead people don't have any money
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19971019000039.0069509c@pop.pipeline.com>
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On Sat,
18 Oct 1997, Paul A. Maher Jr. wrote:
> At
04:11 PM 10/18/97 -0700, you wrote:
>
>>I wish I had Jan Kerouac's money....
>
>Umm... I'm sorry to break the news to you but Jan kerouac is dead.
>
>She doesn't have any money.
>
>Unless you are burning some for her now.
>
Her money is in trust, there is a lot of it. There "was" a lot of it
when
>
she was living. You know what I meant. Don't be such a dumbass.
>
"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our
virtues."
>
Henry David Thoreau
paul
pls
calm down - i have a feeling like yr letting things get out of
control.
you have a good magazine ( at leats i think so, my only complaint
is that
its too short..) and i think that any reading can take something
from yr
mag as well as nicosia's book. all sources - no matter what the
subject
matter- need to be questioned, in my opinion thats only part of
the job
of a responsible researcher. but pls - "lemmings",
"dumbass",
"puppet"...
people are sometimes critical of the tone of postings from you
&
nicosia & chaput - now i can see why. pls remember that there are
people
on the other end of those notes and they too can be hurt by
postings
on beat-L, just like you can. none of us are infallible...
yrs
derek
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 20:57:43 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: estate
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As I
said before, it would be better for the list if people didn't push
their
agenda on the list. Gerry is concerned
with the truth seeing the
light
of day. Others want it squashed. Maher is now calling people
names
and insulting people. I wish that were
not happening.
Lash
has much to gain by teaming up with Sampas.
If they haved, I am
sure
that they would not make that a public fact.
But, the fact is that
Lash is
trying to have Gerry removed as Jan's literary executor. Fact
is that
part of the reason is to stop the law suit in Florida that MIGHT
be
successful and then would upset Sampas' apple cart. So, ONE logical
deduction
you can make, but do not have to, is that Lash and Sampas are
working
together for their mututal benefit and to the detrement of what
Jan's
desire was.
Maher
makes several statements like there was "lots" of money when Jan
was
living. If there was, why wasn't it
available to pay her medical
bills
and to get her the best possible care.
Why did her royalties get
cut
off? What facts do you have for this
Phil? Is your source of
information
Sampas?
He in
another email questions Jack's intent from the letter. Why not
let the
letter speak for itself? Why would
Sampas threaten Jo Grant?
Why has
Sampas threatened the University of Texas and tried to get the
archive
librarian fired? Why has Sampas
threatened Bancroft library?
Why
don't we hear the whole story here?
In
another email, he insults both Jo Grant and Gerry Nicosia. He also
claims
that :
*****Yes,
the person who said it was a forgery also said Vince Foster's
suicide
note was a forgery. It was later proved to be the real thing. No
more
Clinton Cabinet conspiracies.
>
Then he
challenges other statments saying their are "hearsay".
The
other problem I have with Mahre and Chaput is that other than
promote
themselves they rarely say anything until Gerry posts to the
list,
then they are like mad dogs provoking and making statements are
not
able to be substantiated and are clearly in favor of Sampas. We can
draw a
conclusion about who is a puppet or a lemming and it is not Jo
Grant.
Mahre
also calls some one a dumb ass.
And he
states that some law suit hastened, I presume Jan's death:
So she
must have benefited finacially from
>>sales
of OTR the last few years before her death right? If so, it
>>wouldnt
be fair of the Sampases to portray her as simply being after
the
>>money.
****Ans
so what if she was? Isn't everybody? It's too bad a bogus
lawsuit
had to
hasten her death.
What
proof do you have that a law suit hastened anyone's death.
I
personally did not want to see this topic back on the list. But, I
can not
stand back and let this drivel continue unchallenged. I hope
that it
will be made clear to Maher and Chaput that we are going to form
our own
opinions. When Sampas begins to produce
something worthy or
respect,
then we will. In the mean time, why not
call on Sampas to
publish
every letter or communication he has ever issued about Gerry
Nicosia
and Jan Kerouac and every communication he has sent to libraries
about
Jack's letters or other information, or every bit of information
of
every item he has sold out of the estate so that we can see what he
is
really doing. Has he ever said to a
publisher, if you publish
Nicosia,
I will not let you publish Kerouac? Has
he ever let any
copyrights
lapse? Exactly what has Sampas done for
the public?
And
what has Gerry done that is deserving of the garbage he has to
suffer
on this list.
I for
one say that you, Phil, need to stop this attack on Gerry and if
you
want the truth out here, get it out from Sampas and post that, but
quit
trying to put this off on us.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 21:05:41 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: other lists/Open letter to Gerry
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I am on
a number of other lists, Hendrix, Jerry Jeff Walker, Byrds,
Dylan,
where people like Roger McGuinn, and other noted authors,
singers,
song writers publish email all the time.
They will once in a
while
get attacked by some idiot who will claim all Roger ever did was
ride
Dylan's coat tails. But they are never
insulted and maligned like
I have
seen Gerry done on this list. I wish it
would not happen,
because
Gerry is a very valuable source of beat information and we
should
all want him on the list, even if we disagree with his point of
view. I wish that he could let Mahre and Chaput
go, but apparently, he
rises
to the bait.
Gerry:
It
seems to me that few on the list of are a mind to support or believe
all the
garbage and insults thrown in your direction.
I hope you will
assume
that we are not going to buy into those insults and will let them
pass. If you will let it pass, it will become
obvious, even to those
who do
not like you. Please let it go.
BTW, I
meant Paul in my last post instead of Phil.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 21:09:07 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: What the Hendrix list did
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Bill:
I don't
want to put this on anyone out there, but I will make an
observation. On the Hendrix list we were having a
similiar problem. We
took up
a collection and bought all the necessary equipment to "save"
the
list. Is there anyway we could try to
by a bigger drive or one of
those
new deals with the mega storage?
Just a
thought. But the problem was we had to
move it out from the
University
and you may not want to do that.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 18:03:10 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sarah Sage
<yb806@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: The Beats (what else)
MIME-Version:
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I am a
senior in Highschool who has just started to read OTR and has been
assigned
to write a research paper on Neal Cassady. I read somewhere that
Cassady
had a sexual affair with Ginsburg, can anyone verify this for me?
I was
also wondering if Cassady and Kerouac left this world on good
terms.
Oh, and can my name also be added to the list of Kerouac's last
letter?
And I
would also love to hear anything unusual, or something unable to be
found
by text about any of the Beats if anyone out there wants to contribute.
Sarah
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 21:12:10 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
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Patricia:
Thank
you for reminding Paul that he and Phil lost that last round and
we
remember the drivel they were reduced to at the end. They might as
well
leave that alone.
Patricia
Elliott wrote:
> I
thought that gerald won that battle, I
certainly didn't get a good
>
impression of you or phil and not of sampas. that battle showed me a
>
weary warrior, who had lost his perspective but not his immortal soul.
>
> i
never saw the self serving man you tried to make out, unless it was
> a
>
fleeting reflection of the magazine editor serving his master. i saw
>
and heard a man that struggled against ugly assaults to do what he
>
thought was right. I was sickened with
the loss of his talents to
>
other
>
efforts, but i would never fault him for his motives.
>
>
Paul A. Maher Jr. wrote:
>
>
>
> At 04:30 PM 10/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
> >We dont want to get anone (Bill Gargan etc) associated with the
>
beat list
>
> >sued though. I take it that
the Sampas family has threatened to
>
sue the
>
> >Beat-L list moderators or organizers in the past for inappropriate
>
postings?
>
> >
>
> No how about a prominent voice on this list who has you all waylaid
>
with
>
> propaganda? He threatened to sue the college and moderator when he
>
was
>
> losing his battle like Hitler in the bunker before he took his
>
life....
>
> "We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our
>
virtues."
>
>
Henry David Thoreau
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 21:27:54 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jonathan Pickle
<jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>
Subject: Re: No Subject
Mime-Version:
1.0
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Or how
about the book that started it all: _Go_ by John Cellon Holmes. Or
a more
recent yet-to-be classic _Mountains and Rivers Without End_ by
Snyder. A good overview that Derek and I have been
discussing is _Big Sky
Mind_
ed. Tonkinson.
Jon
At
04:34 PM 10/18/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Brian:
I'm glad to see that you're entering the world of Beat. Although I'm
>quite
a few decades older than you, my 17-year old son is beginning to
explore
>the
Beats. Let me just suggest some works
that I suggested to him and
that
you
>might
enjoy. Other than the Beat
"classics" like Kerouac's "On the Road,"
>"Dharma
Bums," "The Sunterraneans," etc., Ginsberg's "Howl"
and Burroughs'
>novels,
"Naked Lunch," "Soft Machine" and "Nova Express,"
you probably
will
want
>to
read such wonderful poetry as all of Ferlinghetti's "Coney Island of the
>Mind,"
Gregory Corso's "Army," "Marriage," and countless
others. I don't
have
>time
to even scratch the surface right now but I would be happy to try to
make
>other
suggestions if you contact me at my e-mail address: winte030@tc.umn.edu
>Happy
reading, Donald
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 20:36:46 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dana Lee Kober
<dana@SPIDERLINE.COM>
Subject: Re: The Beats (what else)
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.3.89.9710181744.A12286-0100000@vifa1>
MIME-Version:
1.0
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Sarah:
A great
short and concise bio on Kerouac to check out would be _Jack
Kerouac
Angelheaded Hipster_ by Steve Turner.
It's short and full of
pictures
and will give you a overall picture of Jack's life. Then you can
start
hitting the thicker biographies :)
On Sat,
18 Oct 1997, Sarah Sage wrote:
> I
am a senior in Highschool who has just started to read OTR and has been
>
assigned to write a research paper on Neal Cassady. I read somewhere that
>
Cassady had a sexual affair with Ginsburg, can anyone verify this for me?
> I
was also wondering if Cassady and Kerouac left this world on good
>
terms. Oh, and can my name also be added to the list of Kerouac's last
>
letter?
>
And I would also love to hear anything unusual, or something unable to be
>
found by text about any of the Beats if anyone out there wants to contribute.
>
>
Sarah
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 21:41:41 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Big Sky Mind
MIME-Version:
1.0
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I
recently purchased Big Sky Mind and have begun reading it. I bought
it to
pick up some of Hal Norse's work. I
understand that Hal has some
copies
of Beat Hotel that he wants to sell and will personalize them.
If
someone in San Francisco can help him out, you ought to get in touch
with
him. I am trying to hook him up with
Jerry Cimino or Jo Grant.
I would
think that Big Sky Mind would be a good book to discuss. It is
edited
by Carole Tonkinson. It contains works
by Diane di Prima, Joanne
Kyger,
Lenore Kandel, and Anne Waldman.
Therefore it has several women
to
discuss as well.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 21:44:55 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tyson Ouellette
<Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: beat
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>some
questions i would like to ask Each of you:
>what
draws you to this genre?
>what
is so important about it? in the role of america or the world?
>where
is it headed, if anywhere?
>how
have these authors and poets impacted your lives?
hi and welcome..
here's my slant on the importance of beat
writing, primarily
Jack's
writing. As a writer the main
importance of Jack's work to me
is as a
catalyst for pushing literature forward.
Just as Jack drew on
his
literary heroes and took writing to the next step, that's the
responsibility
of my generation of writers, any generation of writers.
Jack
took a jump in lit probably unparalleled by any other writer, and
brought
lit to a stage in its development comparable to the advances in
the
other arts during his time, especially music, and the visual arts.
this is
around the time that glass made the transition from large
industrial
production and found its way into small studio production
and its
entrance into the sculptural world beginning to break the thin
boundary
between "craft" and "art."
Bop and Jazz are the lifeblood of
the
music scene. new writers now have to
use his advances as a
stepping
stone to boost lit to a new level.
jack's message of love and beauty and his
influence on the
introduction
of buddhist thought to the western world are wonderful.
it's
amazing how much of culture right now can be traced to the beats.
many of
the messages have become twisted and trivialized, but the
influence
id there. just look the recent
snowballing interest in the
beats,
they're everywhere, especially with allen and bill dying just
recently.
i'm kinda burnt out right now, there's so
much more i'd like to
say. I could never say enough though; jack's
"importance" is endless.
I'd
suggest reading Memory Babe: A Critical Biography of Jack Kerouac
by
Gerry Nicosia, who is on the list.
there is no better bio. it
reads
much like a novel, very compelling, and will give you all the
info
you need to get up to date on most of what gets discussed around
here.
as far as favorite books, that's hard...
but i'd say if you
haven't
read dharma bums yet, do.. also, if you really want to throw
your
brain for a loop, read Burroughs' Naked Lunch... it's like
dreaming...
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 21:48:31 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Jonathan Pickle
<jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>
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Dana
and Brian
I think
that Subterraneans is too revolutionary in its approach to lit to
begin
on that on. TDB is good - I read it
second. I think that OTR is a
good
jumping off point - I did. Don't try
anything like OAM or VOC. Maybe
start
with VOD.
BTW I
think most of the black wearing, beret wearing, gotee and all was
anything
but Hollywood creating an image. JK
didn't go for all that. He
didn't
give a ****. In fact I don't think most
of them did.
Also
where are you both going to school. If
you're anywhere close we
should
get together.
Jon
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 20:41:08 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Brian M. Kirchhoff"
<bkirchho@S-CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: Re: NYU Beat Conference Video Tapes
In-Reply-To:
<971017195154_1622058908@emout05.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
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does
anyone else find it ironic that on tape two of the NYU conference
tapes
they discuss jan kerouac? they just threw her out and then they
discuss
her importance!?!
the
only other estate comment i really feel like making is this:
all
that we have been able to agree upon during the course of this thread
is that
jack himself would not have liked what's going on. we should
contemplate
what has been said in light of this.
two
cents is probably more than that's worth.
:)
peace
Brian
M. Kirchhoff----Omaha, NE
"Someone
must have been telling lies about Joeseph K., for without having
done
anything wrong he was arrested one fine morning." -Kafka, The Trial
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 20:58:23 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dana Lee Kober <dana@SPIDERLINE.COM>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.32.19971018214830.0069aaf8@maila.wm.edu>
MIME-Version:
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I'm in
Kansas City at the University of Missouri
On Sat,
18 Oct 1997, Jonathan Pickle wrote:
>
Dana and Brian
>
> I
think that Subterraneans is too revolutionary in its approach to lit to
>
begin on that on. TDB is good - I read
it second. I think that OTR is a
>
good jumping off point - I did. Don't
try anything like OAM or VOC. Maybe
>
start with VOD.
>
>
BTW I think most of the black wearing, beret wearing, gotee and all was
>
anything but Hollywood creating an image.
JK didn't go for all that. He
>
didn't give a ****. In fact I don't
think most of them did.
>
>
Also where are you both going to school.
If you're anywhere close we
>
should get together.
>
>
Jon
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 19:33:48 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
MIME-Version:
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I take
it that the Sampas family has threatened to sue the
>
Beat-L list moderators or organizers in the past for inappropriate postings?
Richard,
It
wasn't the Sampas side, it was Gerry Nicosia threatening to send in
the
FBI. We were all delighted with the
idea of the
FBI
going through all the old posts, sort of warms the old beat spirit.
This is
the sort of thing that makes so many of us hate this estate war
nonsense
so much. The whole thing is about a
good point, but no one
here
fights fair, everyone uses selective evidence and loves to insult.
An
ugly, ugly business.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 19:43:05 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sarah Sage
<yb806@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: naked lunch
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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I
recently wathched a video in class on W.S.Burroughs, and he talked
about
his book "Naked Lunch" and how it was put together randomly from
different
bits and pieces of his life. I was wondering if it is sort-of
like
Vonnegut's "Slaughterhouse five". I would love to hear anyone and
everyone's
opinion on this.
Keep
Trekken,
Sarah
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 23:10:33 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: estate
Mime-Version:
1.0
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Another
rabble-rouser, lawyers are like buzzards circling the dead...
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 23:30:12 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: other lists/Open letter to Gerry
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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At
09:05 PM 10/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I
am on a number of other lists, Hendrix, Jerry Jeff Walker, Byrds,
>Dylan,
where people like Roger McGuinn, and other noted authors,
>singers,
song writers publish email all the time.
They will once in a
>while
get attacked by some idiot who will claim all Roger ever did was
>ride
Dylan's coat tails. But they are never
insulted and maligned like
>I
have seen Gerry done on this list. I
wish it would not happen,
>because
Gerry is a very valuable source of beat information and we
>should
all want him on the list, even if we disagree with his point of
>view. I wish that he could let Mahre and Chaput
go, but apparently, he
>rises
to the bait.
>
>Gerry:
>
>It
seems to me that few on the list of are a mind to support or believe
>all
the garbage and insults thrown in your direction. I hope you will
>assume
that we are not going to buy into those insults and will let them
>pass. If you will let it pass, it will become
obvious, even to those
>who
do not like you. Please let it go.
yes
yes...he may win the equivalent of the People's Choice Awards but he
will
not win in court. That is all that matters. I, for one, am honored to
be in
the minority who does not buy into these bogus lawsuits. So what IF
John
Sampas gave me some input. Who gave you yours? All you do is write
things,
but you show nothing. All you can do is repeat things, but, if you
were
any kind of lawyer you would know that proof beyond a reasonable doubt
is all
that counts my friend. You can believe whomever you want to but at
least
be able to produce acuuracies and facts. Just taking someone's word
for it
is not enough. You say all we (I and Phil Chaput) come on for is to
attack
Gerald Nicosia. Well, even though this claim and observation is not
true,
I've been on a number of times and I have a web site and newsletter
that is
constructive in the way of Kerouac scholarship...do I have to bend
to the
wills of the list to win your favoritism? I could care less if you
ever
buy one newsletter from me, I am not doing it for those who worry about
such
things as a silly lawsuit in Florida and New Mexico. My objective which
will
reach far into the future is to provide a forum for serious Kerouac
scholarship.
What I will defend is when liars and
anatagonistic provocateurs bend and
shape
the wants and wishes of the deceased into a malleable untruth that
keeps
growing from a dormant malignancy into a full-blown cancer on those
who
perform constructive things (i.e. my quarterly, Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac,
Sampas' preparing and publishing six books to date under his
executorship)...what
has Gerald Nicosia done besides publish his biography
(one I
have told more than once to him that it is a model of scholarship)?
Once
again, you are entitled to believe what you want but don't think for
once
that things which are questionable and known by some as an all-out lie
will
not go unchecked. yes, John Sampas is my friend, is there something
wrong
with having friends? You, R. Bentz Kirby, how well do you know Gerald
Nicosia?
what is the basis for your stoic fixture upon his idealisms?
Perhaps
we can applaud Mr. Nicosia for his passions and convictions, that I
will
give him but what do you and Jo Grant have under your belt that you can
call
your own? I know in some regards casually, and in others definitely
what
caliber are some of these lies and bogus attacks perpetuated upon the
Kerouac
Estate. Have some courage and make up your own minds...With disgust,
Paul
Maher Jr.
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 22:17:47 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Brian M. Kirchhoff"
<bkirchho@S-CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Jack'l lat letter
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.32.19971018225929.00697d1c@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version:
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my, my,
my. are we feeling vindictive again?
i
thought that was over with?
Brian
M. Kirchhoff----Omaha, NE
"Someone
must have been telling lies about Joeseph K., for without having
done
anything wrong he was arrested one fine morning." -Kafka, The Trial
On Sat,
18 Oct 1997, Paul A. Maher Jr. wrote:
> At
01:40 PM 10/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Me as well.
>
>
>
>Jon(jrpick@maila.wm.edu)
>
>
>
>At 12:14 PM 10/18/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>J. Grant: I would be very interested in seeing a copy of the letter by
>
>Kerouac
>
>>on his death bed. My e-mail address is: winte030@tc.umn.edu Thanks, Donald
>
>>
>
>>
>
>Hey Jo Grant, can I see that letter too? I need it to show John Sampas so I
>
can get plenty of new material for The Kerouac Quarterly!
>
"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our
virtues."
>
Henry David Thoreau
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 22:30:14 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Brian M. Kirchhoff"
<bkirchho@S-CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
Comments:
To: "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.32.19971018235853.006980cc@pop.pipeline.com>
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unless,
of course, that one person happens to be jack kerouac, the one and
only
person who can speak for jack kerouac.
correct me if i'm wrong, but
did you
just tell us all to disregard jack's last letter in favor of us
all
soming up with our own conclusions?
please, point me back into the
direction
of logic! sick or not, angry or not,
what he said is what he
said. if i can have his last words, i would rather
have those than
formulate
what i think his last words should have been.
sincerely,
brian
m. kirchhoff
On Sat, 18 Oct 1997, Paul A. Maher Jr. wrote:
>
> >Read Jack's last letter, written to his nephew the day before he
>
died. If >you do not have a copy I'll send you one--even tho I have been
>
threaten >with law suits by John Sampas over the copy I have. > >j
>
grant > >Lets see....Jack was in the hospital the day before he died, in
>
fact he had just finished hemorrhaging the day before he died. Jack was
>
capable of writing or saying anything. His mannerisms and eccentricities
>
led to all kinds of changes in his thinking. When he said it was raining
>
Greeks is that the same as when he called Blacks "Niggers" or women
>
"cunts"? He said what he wanted but it didn't mean he meant every bit
of
>
it. You all should do some intelligent research and come up with your
>
own ideas instead of taking one person's word for it. "We cannot well
> do
without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
>
Henry David Thoreau
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 23:34:23 -0400
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Re: other lists/Open letter to Gerry
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Paul A.
Maher Jr. wrote:
Paul:
If you
don't like what someone says, or if they disagree, just make a
personal
attack on them and insult them. This
isn't court and I'm not
here as
a lawyer, just here to learn from other list members. Why not
give
this a rest? Or at least take it off
list.
>
yes yes...he may win the equivalent of the People's Choice Awards but
> he
>
will not win in court. That is all that matters. I, for one, am
>
honored to
> be
in the minority who does not buy into these bogus lawsuits. So what
> IF
>
John Sampas gave me some input. Who gave you yours? All you do is
>
write
>
things, but you show nothing. All you can do is repeat things, but, if
>
you
>
were any kind of lawyer you would know that proof beyond a reasonable
>
doubt
> is
all that counts my friend. You can believe whomever you want to but
> at
>
least be able to produce acuuracies and facts. Just taking someone's
>
word
>
for it is not enough. You say all we (I and Phil Chaput) come on for
> is
to
>
attack Gerald Nicosia. Well, even though this claim and observation is
>
not
>
true, I've been on a number of times and I have a web site and
>
newsletter
>
that is constructive in the way of Kerouac scholarship...do I have to
>
bend
> to
the wills of the list to win your favoritism? I could care less if
>
you
>
ever buy one newsletter from me, I am not doing it for those who worry
>
about
>
such things as a silly lawsuit in Florida and New Mexico. My objective
>
which
>
will reach far into the future is to provide a forum for serious
>
Kerouac
>
scholarship.
> What I will defend is when liars and
anatagonistic provocateurs bend
>
and
>
shape the wants and wishes of the deceased into a malleable untruth
>
that
>
keeps growing from a dormant malignancy into a full-blown cancer on
>
those
>
who perform constructive things (i.e. my quarterly, Lowell Celebrates
>
Kerouac, Sampas' preparing and publishing six books to date under his
>
executorship)...what has Gerald Nicosia done besides publish his
>
biography
>
(one I have told more than once to him that it is a model of
>
scholarship)?
> Once
again, you are entitled to believe what you want but don't think
>
for
>
once that things which are questionable and known by some as an
>
all-out lie
>
will not go unchecked. yes, John Sampas is my friend, is there
>
something
>
wrong with having friends? You, R. Bentz Kirby, how well do you know
>
Gerald
>
Nicosia? what is the basis for your stoic fixture upon his idealisms?
>
Perhaps we can applaud Mr. Nicosia for his passions and convictions,
>
that I
>
will give him but what do you and Jo Grant have under your belt that
>
you can
>
call your own? I know in some regards casually, and in others
>
definitely
>
what caliber are some of these lies and bogus attacks perpetuated upon
>
the
>
Kerouac Estate. Have some courage and make up your own minds...With
>
disgust,
>
Paul Maher Jr.
>
"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our
>
virtues."
>
Henry David Thoreau
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 00:10:43 -0400
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From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: other lists/Open letter to Gerry
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My
comments to Mr. Nicosia have been directed to him off the list. I have
been
away from the computer all day when I was at work, meanwhile, you guys
have
just kept on talking about this very same issue. Your right. Enough!
The
judge in New Mexico will have the last word.
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 21:50:59 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
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Brian
M. Kirchhoff wrote:
>
>
unless, of course, that one person happens to be jack kerouac, the one and
>
only person who can speak for jack kerouac.
correct me if i'm wrong, but
>
did you just tell us all to disregard jack's last letter in favor of us
>
all soming up with our own conclusions?
please, point me back into the
>
direction of logic! sick or not, angry
or not, what he said is what he
>
said. if i can have his last words, i
would rather have those than
>
formulate what i think his last words should have been.
>
>
sincerely,
>
brian m. kirchhoff
>
Brian,
This
sounds logical and it would be nice if it were true. As I
understand
it, and I don't claim to be an expert, the problem is not
with Jack's
will but with Gabrielle's. Benz or someone more knowledgable
is
welcome to correct me, but as I understand it Jack's will is not the
issue. Whatever his last letter says, it is not a
will and testament,
and as
someone noted in one of his more rational moments, Jack's
statements
are all over the map. Jack's letter may
or may not express
what he
really wanted to happen. Unfortunately
he never dealt with
these
matters in a way that would have avoided the current mess.
Bentz
feels that Mr. Nicosia won the last round.
I didn't think anyone
won. Certainly no one covered themselves with
glory. The courts will
ultimately
decide what happens. I hope, as I
suspect everyone involved
does,
that Jack's literary remains are available and well taken care
of. Unfortunately we here on the list are just
spectators. Gerry
Nicosia,
Mr. Lash, or John Sampas ( of some combination of the above)
will
win in court someday--then we will see who does what they claim
they
will do. Everyone in this fight has a
vested interest in it. Most
of us
have only the interest of being lovers of Kerouac's work. For the
principles
this is a job. There is much money and power involved. I
suspect
that as it almost always is when money and power are involved
that self
interest colors peoples ideas of what the truth is. I don't
see any
white knights here. Others do. I
sincerely hope they are right
and I
am wrong.
J.
Stauffer
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 00:54:51 -0400
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From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Neal Cassady material...
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Sarah,
If you havent yet found your way to
it, go to Levi Asher's Beat
site,
Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
He has several great pages that record
interviews he did with Neal's
children,
John, Pat and ...(forget the third daughter). You'll find some
interesting
stories about their Dad.
Antoine
******************
>I
am a senior in Highschool who has just started to read OTR and has been
>assigned
to write a research paper on Neal Cassady. I read somewhere that
>Cassady
had a sexual affair with Ginsburg, can anyone verify this for me?
>I
was also wondering if Cassady and Kerouac left this world on good
>terms.
Oh, and can my name also be added to the list of Kerouac's last
>letter?
>And
I would also love to hear anything unusual, or something unable to be
>found
by text about any of the Beats if anyone out there wants to contribute.
>
>Sarah
>
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"Blessed are they who can laugh at
themselves, for they shall never
cease
to be amused."
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 01:29:20 -0400
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From: First_Name Last_Name
<Kindlesan@AOL.COM>
In a
message dated 97-10-18 21:49:35 EDT, you write:
<<
Dana and Brian
I think that Subterraneans is too
revolutionary in its approach to lit to
begin on that on.
what
makes it revolutionary?
Also where are you both going to school. If you're anywhere close we
should get together.
oxford
of emory in georgia......wher you located?
Jon >>
brian
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 22:44:12 -0700
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From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Mr. Maher has gone off the deep end
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On October
18 Paul Maher wrote:
>****John
Lash [Jan Kerouac's ex-husband] and John Sampas have two separate
cases.
Dont't blend the two.
... he
[Lash]simply has more say about Jan Kerouac's estate than Gerald
>Nicosia.
He has a right to assert that authority in a court of law like
>anybody
else.
>>>
[quote by Joe Grant:] "Also I know from later editionsof OTR that Jan
got her
name on the
>>>copyrightr
when it was renewed (that must have been another court fight
>>>with
the Sampases I asume)"
>*****You
assume wrong, STOP ASSUMING!
>[in
response to Joe Grant's assertion that Jan was not only "after the
money"]:
****Ans so what if she was? Isn't everybody? It's too bad a bogus
lawsuit
>had
to hasten her death.
>*****Yes,
the person who said it [Memere's will] was a forgery also said
Vince
Foster's
>suicide
note was a forgery. It was later proved to be the real thing. No
>more
Clinton Cabinet conspiracies.
>...
you [Joe Grant] are Mr. Nicosia's puppet. Another lemming going over
>the
cliff.
Dear Beat List readers, Mr. Maher churns out so many untruths and so
much
disinformation so rapidly that I simply cannot keep up with him. In
fact,
he seems to do so on a full-time basis, which makes me wonder who is
paying
his salary.
This last post of his, besides being
riddled with errors, smacks of
some
form of mental imbalance. Quite
frankly, I have never read anything
quite
so crazy in my life. Crazy or not, he
should not have the right to go
on
endlessly insulting both live people, like Joe Grant and myself, and dead
people,
like Jan Kerouac. At some point, I hope
Bill Gargan will inform Mr.
Maher
that such continued irrational, abusive posts will result in his
exclusion
from the Beat-List. Perhaps I am wrong
to say this, and if others
feel I
am, please say so. We all love the
openness of the internet
community
but I think some limits of human decency need to be enforced. Jan
Kerouac
was an exquisite writer in her own right, a courageous woman who
held on
during four years of nonstop kidney dialysis to continue fighting to
save
her father's literary archive, and she died without a penny to her
name. In fact, she died owing something like sixty
thousand dollars. For
Mr.
Maher to insult her in her grave, by implying she was chasing money with
a
"bogus lawsuit," is despicable in the worst degree.
To make factual errors is one thing,
we all do that. But to
knowingly
print untruths is a crime in my book.
And Mr. Maher commits that
crime
over and over again. He is obviously on
a daily speaking basis with
Mr.
Sampas. Yet again and again he prints
falsehoods that his friend Mr.
Sampas
knows the truth about.
Let me give you just a few examples:
Contrary to what PAM says, Mr. Lash
and Mr. Sampas's legal dealings
are
intricately connected. Just a few days
ago, Mr. Lash's lawyers made a
public
statement that Mr. Lash and Mr. Sampas had made a financial deal,
whose
terms were "confidential." At
the hearing in Florida last Monday,
where I
won against Mr. Sampas, Mr. Sampas's lawyers were in attendance side
by side
with Mr. Lash's lawyers.
Contrary to what PAM says, Mr. Lash
does not have "more to say"
about
Jan's estate than I do. We were made
co-executors, but with SEPARATE
AREAS
OF RESPONSIBILITY. Jan's will put me in
charge of all her literary
rights
and properties, Mr. Lash was to handle everything else (bills, taxes,
etc.).
Contrary to what PAM says, Jan Kerouac
had to threaten the Sampases
with
legal action for three years before they finally agreed (knowing they
would
lose in court) to pay her the royalties on Jack's books that were
mandated
by federal copyright law.
Contrary to what PAM says, Ron Rice,
the handwriting authority who
calls
Memere's will "an obvious forgery," was never part of a "Clinton
conspiracy"
and he never said Vince Foster's suicide note was a forgery. In
fact,
his firm has worked for the CIA, the Navy, and many other government
organizations,
and is highly accredited.
Contrary to what PAM says, Joe Grant is not my
"puppet." I have
never
had any financial dealings with Mr. Grant.
I have never even met him.
I do
admire the work he has done over several decades as an underground
publisher.
What concerns me here is that I do not
have the unlimited time to
keep
refuting these crazy claims as fast as Mr. Maher can churn them out.
And
once I stop refuting them, it is possible newcomers to the list and
young
people with little background in this complex case may believe they
are
listening to an expert, "Paul Maher of the Kerouac Quarterly," as he
styles
himself.
There is a serious problem here, and I
call on others to propose
solutions. I am not trying to play dictator here. But I also do not
believe
Mr. Maher should forever be allowed to fill this list with
disinformation
that he knows is false, just because it will keep him in good
stead
with Mr. Sampas and allow him to continue getting original material
from
Mr. Sampas for his new little magazine.
Any thoughts?
Respectfully, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 23:00:45 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: estate
Mime-Version:
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At
08:57 PM 10/18/97 -0400, Bentz Kirby wrote:
>Lash
has much to gain by teaming up with Sampas.
If they haved, I am
>sure
that they would not make that a public fact. ... ONE logical
>deduction
you can make, but do not have to, is that Lash and Sampas are
>working
together for their mututal benefit and to the detrement of what
>Jan's
desire was.
>
Dear
Bentz and Beat List readers:
We do not have to make any
deductions. The lawyers for John Lash
[Jan
Kerouac's ex-husband] have stated in their appellate brief that Mr.
Lash
and Mr. Sampas have made a financial deal whose terms are
"confidential."
--Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 02:13:48 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Jonathan Pickle
<jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>
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I'm at
W&M if any one is anywhere near there - don't have a car though.
Was
born with feet, so I use them to the max.
The
Subterraneans was revolutionary in that JK took his stream of
consciousness/Modern
Prose/ Spontaneous poetics style into his later and
most
developed stage. OTR was in his middle
stage where he was coming into
his
voice. It's not revolutionary in the
sense that he's acting like Abbie
Hoffman
or anything like that, but more in the style.
I read TSub. as my
third
book in 2 mad hours while hi. I understood
maybe 60 percent of it,
but it
wasn't until I went back to read it after being exposed to T&C and
VOD and
more easy going works that I "got it" DOn't get me wrong - VOD is
written
in JK's later stages, but I don't find it as trying to comprehend
through
the myriad of his thoughts.
Jon
At
01:29 AM 10/19/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In
a message dated 97-10-18 21:49:35 EDT, you write:
>
><<
Dana and Brian
>
> I
think that Subterraneans is too revolutionary in its approach to lit to
>
begin on that on.
>what
makes it revolutionary?
>
>
Also where are you both going to school.
If you're anywhere close we
>
should get together.
>oxford
of emory in georgia......wher you located?
>
>
Jon >>
>brian
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 23:19:13 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
Mime-Version:
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At
07:33 PM 10/18/97 -0700, you wrote:
>I
take it that the Sampas family has threatened to sue the
>>
Beat-L list moderators or organizers in the past for inappropriate postings?
>
>
>Richard,
>
>It
wasn't the Sampas side, it was Gerry Nicosia threatening to send in
>the
FBI.
>
Dear
Beat List Readers,
Once again I am compelled to correct
seriously damaging errors about
myself. I never "sent in the FBI" against
the Beat list. I did report to
the FBI
that Mr. Maher had sent me a private threat, not on the Beat List,
but
directly to my private email address.
Mr. Maher is a convicted felon
and he
works closely with Mr. Sampas, a man whose family stands to lose
several
million dollars if I successfully prosecute Jan Kerouac's lawsuit
against
his family. Under those circumstances,
and having a family and
young
child to protect, I thought it prudent to report Maher's threat to the
FBI. I never suggested to the FBI that the Beat
List should be
investigated. I would have no reason to. Mr. Gargan and I have remained on
good
terms since my first entry on the list last April. But we have
discussed
the seriousness of people, like Rod Anstee, for instance, making
bogus
charges on the list--that I had sold papers stolen from Columbia
University
to U Mass, Lowell, for example--a charge that had absolutely no
foundation
in reality, since the papers he mentioned were not even at U
Mass,
Lowell. We all want an open list, but
do we want a list where one
person
can knowingly bring erroneous, damaging charges against others on the
list,
and then come back to do so again and again?
Respectfully, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 01:24:20 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: other lists/Open letter to Gerry
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.32.19971019041043.00698f40@pop.pipeline.com>
Mime-Version:
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>My
comments to Mr. Nicosia have been directed to him off the list. I have
>been
away from the computer all day when I was at work, meanwhile, you guys
>have
just kept on talking about this very same issue. Your right. Enough!
>The
judge in New Mexico will have the last word.
>"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
>
Henry David Thoreau
MAYBE
the judge in New Mexico will have the last word..
It's
very possible the judge in New Mexico will have the second to the last
word.
1st:
The WORD in New Mexico
2nd:The
WORD in Florida.
j grant
Small Press Authors and Publishers
display books
FREE
at
BookZen
http://www.bookzen.com
402,900 visitors - 07-01-96 to
07-01-97
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 02:25:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Jon B. Pearlstone"
<THYE@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: What the Hendrix list did
how do
you get on the hendrix list? Are there
other sixties related lists
out
there? If you know of any please advise
and include e-mail address to
sign
up.
Thanks!
Jon
Pearlstone
THYE@AOL.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 02:38:43 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aviva Vogel
<Aviva99999@AOL.COM>
Subject: Assistance Sorely Needed
After a
30-minute search thru all my listserv files, I can't find the
instructions
for unsubscribing.
How do
I unsubscribe from Beat-L?
Thanks
to anyone who takes time out of their day to tell me! Aviva
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 02:40:45 -0500
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From: "Brian M. Kirchhoff"
<bkirchho@S-CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
Comments:
To: James Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
In-Reply-To: <344991B2.6727@pacbell.net>
MIME-Version:
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i agree
with your observations, however, my only real point here is that
it
seems as though paul was trying to disclaim WHATEVER jack said simply
based
on his questionable state of physical and mental health during his
last
days. i am not confusing this with his will, rather, i am curious of
his
last intentions. i don't want this letter delegitimatized based on
paul's
assumptions of jack's mental well being.
i hope
that makes sense. (especially delegitimatized which probably isn't
a
word.)
peace. i'm tired.
brian
m. kirchhoff
On Sat, 18 Oct 1997, James
Stauffer
wrote:
>
Brian M. Kirchhoff wrote:
>
>
>
> unless, of course, that one person happens to be jack kerouac, the one and
>
> only person who can speak for jack kerouac. correct me if i'm wrong, but
>
> did you just tell us all to disregard jack's last letter in favor of us
>
> all soming up with our own conclusions?
please, point me back into the
>
> direction of logic! sick or not,
angry or not, what he said is what he
>
> said. if i can have his last
words, i would rather have those than
>
> formulate what i think his last words should have been.
>
>
>
> sincerely,
>
> brian m. kirchhoff
>
>
>
>
>
Brian,
>
>
This sounds logical and it would be nice if it were true. As I
>
understand it, and I don't claim to be an expert, the problem is not
>
with Jack's will but with Gabrielle's. Benz or someone more knowledgable
> is
welcome to correct me, but as I understand it Jack's will is not the
>
issue. Whatever his last letter says,
it is not a will and testament,
>
and as someone noted in one of his more rational moments, Jack's
>
statements are all over the map. Jack's
letter may or may not express
>
what he really wanted to happen. Unfortunately
he never dealt with
>
these matters in a way that would have avoided the current mess.
>
>
Bentz feels that Mr. Nicosia won the last round. I didn't think anyone
>
won. Certainly no one covered
themselves with glory. The courts will
> ultimately
decide what happens. I hope, as I
suspect everyone involved
>
does, that Jack's literary remains are available and well taken care
>
of. Unfortunately we here on the list
are just spectators. Gerry
>
Nicosia, Mr. Lash, or John Sampas ( of some combination of the above)
>
will win in court someday--then we will see who does what they claim
>
they will do. Everyone in this fight
has a vested interest in it. Most
> of
us have only the interest of being lovers of Kerouac's work. For the
> principles
this is a job. There is much money and power involved. I
>
suspect that as it almost always is when money and power are involved
>
that self interest colors peoples ideas of what the truth is. I don't
>
see any white knights here. Others do.
I sincerely hope they are right
>
and I am wrong.
>
> J.
Stauffer
>
> >
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 15:41:40 +0800
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: FENG Yan
<yfeng@PUBLIC1.TPT.TJ.CN>
Subject:
=?gb2312?B?ytW8/sjLICAgICBSZTogb3RoZXIgbGlzdHMvT3BlbiBsZXR0ZXIgdG8gR2Vy?=
=?gb2312?B?cnk=?=
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Stop,
stop, stop.
Back to
JK, back to road
Ciao
Yan
----
Paul A.
Maher Jr. wrote:
Paul:
If you
don't like what someone says, or if they disagree, just make a
personal
attack on them and insult them. This
isn't court and I'm not
here as
a lawyer, just here to learn from other list members. Why not
give
this a rest? Or at least take it off
list.
>
yes yes...he may win the equivalent of the People's Choice Awards but
> he
> will
not win in court. That is all that matters. I, for one, am
>
honored to
> be
in the minority who does not buy into these bogus lawsuits. So what
> IF
>
John Sampas gave me some input. Who gave you yours? All you do is
>
write
>
things, but you show nothing. All you can do is repeat things, but, if
>
you
>
were any kind of lawyer you would know that proof beyond a reasonable
>
doubt
> is
all that counts my friend. You can believe whomever you want to but
> at
>
least be able to produce acuuracies and facts. Just taking someone's
>
word
>
for it is not enough. You say all we (I and Phil Chaput) come on for
> is
to
>
attack Gerald Nicosia. Well, even though this claim and observation is
>
not
>
true, I've been on a number of times and I have a web site and
>
newsletter
>
that is constructive in the way of Kerouac scholarship...do I have to
>
bend
> to
the wills of the list to win your favoritism? I could care less if
>
you
>
ever buy one newsletter from me, I am not doing it for those who worry
>
about
>
such things as a silly lawsuit in Florida and New Mexico. My objective
>
which
>
will reach far into the future is to provide a forum for serious
>
Kerouac
>
scholarship.
> What I will defend is when liars and
anatagonistic provocateurs bend
>
and
>
shape the wants and wishes of the deceased into a malleable untruth
>
that
>
keeps growing from a dormant malignancy into a full-blown cancer on
>
those
>
who perform constructive things (i.e. my quarterly, Lowell Celebrates
>
Kerouac, Sampas' preparing and publishing six books to date under his
>
executorship)...what has Gerald Nicosia done besides publish his
>
biography
>
(one I have told more than once to him that it is a model of
>
scholarship)?
>
Once again, you are entitled to believe what you want but don't think
>
for
>
once that things which are questionable and known by some as an
>
all-out lie
>
will not go unchecked. yes, John Sampas is my friend, is there
>
something
>
wrong with having friends? You, R. Bentz Kirby, how well do you know
>
Gerald
>
Nicosia? what is the basis for your stoic fixture upon his idealisms?
>
Perhaps we can applaud Mr. Nicosia for his passions and convictions,
>
that I
>
will give him but what do you and Jo Grant have under your belt that
>
you can
>
call your own? I know in some regards casually, and in others
>
definitely
>
what caliber are some of these lies and bogus attacks perpetuated upon
>
the
>
Kerouac Estate. Have some courage and make up your own minds...With
>
disgust,
>
Paul Maher Jr.
>
"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our
>
virtues."
>
Henry David Thoreau
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
------=_NextPart_000_01BCDCA5.7DF42C80
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charset="us-ascii"
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<!DOCTYPE
HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META
content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META
content=3D'"Trident 4.71.0544.0"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY><FONT
face=3DArial size=3D2>
<P>Stop,
stop, stop.</P>
<P>Back
to JK, back to road
<P>Ciao
<P>Yan</P>
----<BR>
<FONT
size=3D2>Paul A. Maher Jr. wrote:<BR>
<BR>
Paul:<BR>
<BR>
If you
don't like what someone says, or if they disagree, just make =
a<BR>
personal
attack on them and insult them. This isn't court and I'm =
not<BR>
here as
a lawyer, just here to learn from other list members. Why =
not<BR>
give
this a rest? Or at least take it off list.<BR>
<BR>
>
yes yes...he may win the equivalent of the People's Choice Awards =
but<BR>
>
he<BR>
>
will not win in court. That is all that matters. I, for one, am<BR>
>
honored to<BR>
>
be in the minority who does not buy into these bogus lawsuits. So =
what<BR>
>
IF<BR>
>
John Sampas gave me some input. Who gave you yours? All you do =
is<BR>
>
write<BR>
>
things, but you show nothing. All you can do is repeat things, but, =
if<BR>
>
you<BR>
>
were any kind of lawyer you would know that proof beyond a =
reasonable<BR>
>
doubt<BR>
>
is all that counts my friend. You can believe whomever you want to =
but<BR>
>
at<BR>
>
least be able to produce acuuracies and facts. Just taking =
someone's<BR>
>
word<BR>
>
for it is not enough. You say all we (I and Phil Chaput) come on =
for<BR>
>
is to<BR>
>
attack Gerald Nicosia. Well, even though this claim and observation =
is<BR>
>
not<BR>
>
true, I've been on a number of times and I have a web site and<BR>
>
newsletter<BR>
>
that is constructive in the way of Kerouac scholarship...do I have =
to<BR>
>
bend<BR>
>
to the wills of the list to win your favoritism? I could care less =
if<BR>
>
you<BR>
>
ever buy one newsletter from me, I am not doing it for those who =
worry<BR>
>
about<BR>
>
such things as a silly lawsuit in Florida and New Mexico. My =
objective<BR>
>
which<BR>
>
will reach far into the future is to provide a forum for =
serious<BR>
>
Kerouac<BR>
>
scholarship.<BR>
>
What I will defend is when liars and anatagonistic =
provocateurs=20
bend<BR>
>
and<BR>
>
shape the wants and wishes of the deceased into a malleable =
untruth<BR>
>
that<BR>
>
keeps growing from a dormant malignancy into a full-blown cancer =
on<BR>
>
those<BR>
>
who perform constructive things (i.e. my quarterly, Lowell =
Celebrates<BR>
>
Kerouac, Sampas' preparing and publishing six books to date under =
his<BR>
>
executorship)...what has Gerald Nicosia done besides publish =
his<BR>
>
biography<BR>
>
(one I have told more than once to him that it is a model of<BR>
>
scholarship)?<BR>
>
Once again, you are entitled to believe what you want but don't =
think<BR>
>
for<BR>
>
once that things which are questionable and known by some as an<BR>
>
all-out lie<BR>
>
will not go unchecked. yes, John Sampas is my friend, is there<BR>
>
something<BR>
>
wrong with having friends? You, R. Bentz Kirby, how well do you =
know<BR>
>
Gerald<BR>
>
Nicosia? what is the basis for your stoic fixture upon his =
idealisms?<BR>
>
Perhaps we can applaud Mr. Nicosia for his passions and =
convictions,<BR>
>
that I<BR>
>
will give him but what do you and Jo Grant have under your belt =
that<BR>
>
you can<BR>
>
call your own? I know in some regards casually, and in others<BR>
>
definitely<BR>
>
what caliber are some of these lies and bogus attacks perpetuated =
upon<BR>
>
the<BR>
>
Kerouac Estate. Have some courage and make up your own =
minds...With<BR>
>
disgust,<BR>
>
Paul Maher Jr.<BR>
>
"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to =
our<BR>
>
virtues."<BR>
> &nb=
sp; &nbs=
p;  =
; =20
Henry
David Thoreau<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
--<BR>
<BR>
Peace,<BR>
<BR>
Bentz<BR>
<A
href=3D"mailto:bocelts@scsn.net">bocelts@scsn.net</A><BR>
<A=20
href=3D"http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw">http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw<=
/A><BR>
</FONT></FONT>
</BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_01BCDCA5.7DF42C80--
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 02:36:29 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Matthias_Schneider
<magrobi@MAIL.ZEDAT.FU-BERLIN.DE>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?I=B4d?= like to signoff.
Mime-Version:
1.0
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text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hello,
I=B4d
like to signoff from the list.
Thanks
and all the best!
Matthias
(Germany)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 09:57:27 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Matthew L Potter
<mlpotter@STUDENT.UMASS.EDU>
Subject: wsb
MIME-version:
1.0
Content-type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
anyone
have directions for making burroughs'
inventions? I'd be grateful.thanks. matt
mlpotter@student.umass.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 22:27:41 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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Content-Transfer-Encoding:
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>
James Stauffer wrote:
> Everyone in this fight has a vested interest
in it. Most
> of
us have only the interest of being lovers of Kerouac's work. For
>
the
>
principles this is a job. There is much money and power involved. I
>
suspect that as it almost always is when money and power are involved
>
that self interest colors peoples ideas of what the truth is. I don't
>
see any white knights here. Others do.
I sincerely hope they are right
>
and I am wrong.
Nothing
new ever comes out of rehashing all of this on the list. We
hear
exactly the same arguments over and over and the same accusations
over
and over. As James points out so well we are lovers of the
literature. I don't see any white knights here
either. The only win is
going
to take place in a courtroom. Phil
hasn't posted regarding this in
days. Paul stated in his last post he wants to
take it off the list.
Bentz
wants to take it off the list. That
leaves one person left to
say he
will take it off the list. Let's get
back to
discussing
literature.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 10:08:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: seth hodes <shodes@HOME.COM>
Organization:
@Home Network
Subject: Re: Assistance Sorely Needed
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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I'd like
to knoww how to sign off as well
take
care
seth
Aviva
Vogel wrote:
>
>
After a 30-minute search thru all my listserv files, I can't find the
>
instructions for unsubscribing.
>
>
How do I unsubscribe from Beat-L?
>
>
Thanks to anyone who takes time out of their day to tell me! Aviva
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 10:12:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Donald E. Winters"
<winte030@TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: naked lunch
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Sarah:
You picked a good starting point for your new encounter with Beat
literature. "Naked Lunch" seem to capture not
only the cultural values of the
beats
but the stylist approaches to the written word. The book that started me
on the
way to my decades-long relationship with the Beats was Kerouac's "On the
Road"
and then "Subterraneans."
When I graduated from high school in 1963, I
made a
sort of pilgrimate to San Francisco and North Beach. One of my peak
experiences
at that time was encountering Allen Ginsberg as he was walking out
of City
Lights Bookstore. He was wearing a
rather heavy looking backpack and
had
just, I think, returned from a trip to India.
I immediately ran back into
the
bookstore, purchased a copy of Ginsberg's "Reality Sandwiches" so
that I
could
have AG autograph it for me. When I
finally caught up with him he
graciously
agreed to autograph the book for me, adding rather slyly: "You're
panging,
you've been running." Needless to
say, as a self-conscious 18 year
old, I
was very embarrassed. Following his
signature on the book, he added the
drawing
of the fishl-head-with-three-bodies that appears on the cover of his
"Collected
Poems." It's a moment I'll never
forget. winte030@tc.umn.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 11:38:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cosmic Baseball Association
<cosmic@CLARK.NET>
Subject: Re: Assistance Sorely Needed
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hello
Folks:
To
unsubscribe from the BEAT-L list try this approach:
Send an
email message to LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU.
In the message area type:
SIGNOFF
BEAT-L
(you
can leave the subject field blank)
Hope
this helps and catch you later.
Andrew
cosmic@clark.net
>I'd
like to knoww how to sign off as well
>take
care
>seth
>
>Aviva
Vogel wrote:
>>
>>
After a 30-minute search thru all my listserv files, I can't find the
>>
instructions for unsubscribing.
>>
>>
How do I unsubscribe from Beat-L?
>>
>>
Thanks to anyone who takes time out of their day to tell me! Aviva
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 11:47:31 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
MIME-Version:
1.0
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Diane
Carter wrote:
>
Let's get back to
>
discussing literature.
> DC
Amen to
that.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 11:07:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Brian M. Kirchhoff"
<bkirchho@S-CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
In-Reply-To: <344A2B93.821CA4A3@scsn.net>
MIME-Version:
1.0
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here
here. i vote to end.
enough
sunday bloody sundays.
brian
m. kirchhoff
On Sun,
19 Oct 1997, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
Diane Carter wrote:
>
>
> Let's get back to
>
> discussing literature.
>
> DC
>
>
Amen to that.
>
> --
>
>
Peace,
>
>
Bentz
>
bocelts@scsn.net
>
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 17:03:20 +0100
Reply-To: dcaridade@geocities.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: dcaridade
<dcaridade@GEOCITIES.COM>
Subject: William Burroughs and Alvaro Lapa
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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Hi, I'm
kinda new in this list (thanks for spreading the word Duarte) and
I'd
like to know if someone out there knows anything about a joint
exhibition
between William Burroughs and portuguese artist Alvaro Lapa.
thanks,
daniel
caridade
dcaridade@geocities.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 12:53:09 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Mr. Maher has gone off the deep end
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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> Any thoughts?
> Respectfully, Gerry Nicosia
>yes...I
have a thought, maybe I will see you in the deep end with me. Isn't
it fun
to bask in delusional mind dementia? I mean the colors and the way
life
looks so wobbled and fuzzy-like....yes, this is where I'd rather be.
It's so
much better to be here than to be anything like you. When you fall,
it's
going to be hard. I can rest secure in the faults of my psychosis
whereas
you my friend have to bask in your serpent bed of lies.
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 12:56:17 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: estate
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Dear
Bentz and Beat List readers:
> We do not have to make any
deductions. The lawyers for John Lash
>[Jan
Kerouac's ex-husband] have stated in their appellate brief that Mr.
>Lash
and Mr. Sampas have made a financial deal whose terms are
"confidential."
> --Gerry Nicosia
>Good
- I for one am comfortable with this. what business of it is yours?
I see
spots appearing before my eyes....time for another psychotic episode.
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 11:34:05 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Brian M. Kirchhoff"
<bkirchho@S-CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mr. Maher has gone off the deep end
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19971019165309.0069771c@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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girls!
girls! you're both pretty!
can we
fucking end this name calling bull-shit!
Brian
M. Kirchhoff----Omaha, NE
"Someone
must have been telling lies about Joeseph K., for without having
done
anything wrong he was arrested one fine morning." -Kafka, The Trial
On Sun,
19 Oct 1997, Paul A. Maher Jr. wrote:
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Respectfully, Gerry Nicosia
>
>yes...I have a thought, maybe I will see you in the deep end with me. Isn't
> it
fun to bask in delusional mind dementia? I mean the colors and the way
>
life looks so wobbled and fuzzy-like....yes, this is where I'd rather be.
>
It's so much better to be here than to be anything like you. When you fall,
>
it's going to be hard. I can rest secure in the faults of my psychosis
>
whereas you my friend have to bask in your serpent bed of lies.
>
"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our
virtues."
> Henry David Thoreau
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 12:59:48 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
11:19 PM 10/18/97 -0700, you wrote:
>At
07:33 PM 10/18/97 -0700, you wrote:
>>I
take it that the Sampas family has threatened to sue the
>>>
Beat-L list moderators or organizers in the past for inappropriate postings?
>>
>>
>>Richard,
>>
>>It
wasn't the Sampas side, it was Gerry Nicosia threatening to send in
>>the
FBI.
>>
>Dear
Beat List Readers,
> Once again I am compelled to correct
seriously damaging errors about
>myself. I never "sent in the FBI" against
the Beat list. I did report to
>the
FBI that Mr. Maher had sent me a private threat, not on the Beat List,
>but
directly to my private email address.
Mr. Maher is a convicted felon
>and
he works closely with Mr. Sampas, a man whose family stands to lose
>several
million dollars if I successfully prosecute Jan Kerouac's lawsuit
>against
his family. Under those circumstances,
and having a family and
>young
child to protect, I thought it prudent to report Maher's threat to the
>FBI. I never suggested to the FBI that the Beat
List should be
>investigated. I would have no reason to. Mr. Gargan and I have remained on
>good
terms since my first entry on the list last April. But we have
>discussed
the seriousness of people, like Rod Anstee, for instance, making
>bogus
charges on the list--that I had sold papers stolen from Columbia
>University
to U Mass, Lowell, for example--a charge that had absolutely no
>foundation
in reality, since the papers he mentioned were not even at U
>Mass,
Lowell. We all want an open list, but
do we want a list where one
>person
can knowingly bring erroneous, damaging charges against others on the
>list,
and then come back to do so again and again?
> Respectfully, Gerry Nicosia
>I
saw letters stamped that clearly said, "Property of Columbia
College
- Not For Sale or Duplication" - I wonder what that meant? I saw
those
letters from folders at John Sampas' house which were in turn copies
taken
from the Memory Babe collection.I wonder what that meant?
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 13:04:09 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: other lists/Open letter to Gerry
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
01:24 AM 10/19/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>My
comments to Mr. Nicosia have been directed to him off the list. I have
>>been
away from the computer all day when I was at work, meanwhile, you guys
>>have
just kept on talking about this very same issue. Your right. Enough!
>>The
judge in New Mexico will have the last word.
>>"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
>>
Henry David Thoreau
>
>MAYBE
the judge in New Mexico will have the last word..
>
>It's
very possible the judge in New Mexico will have the second to the last
>word.
>
>1st:
The WORD in New Mexico
>2nd:The
WORD in Florida.
>
>
>j
grant
>
I
anxiously await this so that we can get more published books when this
bullshit
clears. That's what upsets me most. There is a wait on everything
until
the lawsuit ends so...right now we all lose. Some of the Dharma was
contracted
for publication about four or five years ago so that we were able
to get
that at least. You want to see The Sea Is My Brother and The Night Is
My
Woman published? Too bad, they won't be on the shelves until this mockery
of a
trial ends.....the official bio and journals are figured to be far
enough
into the future so that at least they may not be hindered in their
preparation.
Think on that for a while....all the archives would be placed
if
there wasn't this bogus lawsuit pending.
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 11:51:47 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Joey Mellott
<peyotecoyote@IAH.COM>
Subject: Re: beat
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Welcome
to the wild, wacky, and witty world of JK!
I'm a
HS student (finally a senior), and I've been into the beat generation
for
almost a year. I developed my intrest
from conversations with a friend
(hi
curtis) who really liked The Dharma Bums.
(In future chats I
discovered
he had never finished OTR, that stunned me completely) I read
OTR
first, and delved into jack's biography for a history term paper (got a
100 on
it too :) ) I read NL next, followed by
Desolation Angels, Visions
of Cody
and, right now, the Soft Machine. I'm
not an expert, but I really
like
what JK and WSB have to say about life and society. (Incidentally, I
do hold
non-beat writer as equal to these two in vision and subversion:
Philip
K. Dick. Read a Scanner Darkly, it'll
change the way you look at
the
world and at cops.) I like WSB's
constant attack against control, and
love to
use the beats to counter the idea that all intellectuals have PHD's
and
teach at universities. SM is going
slowly, mostly because I'm doing a
nasty
crit paper on Hamlet at the moment.
If any
other HS students are looking for people who read literature outside
of
class, check your school's writer's club or the debate team. You'd be
amazed
how much philosophy the average second year debater knows.
my $.02.
Joey
Mellott : poet, writer, and student (well, mostly a student)
(peyotecoyote@iah.com)
"the
socerers enter the ring, and the dancer with the six hundred little
bells
(300 of horn, 300 of silver) shrieks his coyote call in the forest."
-
Antonin Artaud
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 12:02:25 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Christa St. Peter"
<astrid@NORSHORE.NET>
Subject: Re: Jack'l lat letter
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
I am
interested in seeing this letter as well. Can it be posted?
Christa
(astrid@norshore.net)
----------
>
> At
12:14 PM 10/18/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>J. Grant: I would be very interested in seeing a copy of the letter by
>
Kerouac
>
>on his death bed. My e-mail address is: winte030@tc.umn.edu Thanks,
Donald
>
>
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 10:20:10 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Karen Eblen
<keblen@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Assistance Sorely Needed
Content-Type:
text/plain
to sign
off from BEAT-L...
send to
<listserv@CUNYVM.BITNET>
no
subject
message
body <signoff Beat-L>
>Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 10:08:52 -0400
>Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From: seth hodes <shodes@HOME.COM>
>Subject: Re: Assistance Sorely Needed
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>I'd
like to knoww how to sign off as well
>take
care
>seth
>
>Aviva
Vogel wrote:
>>
>>
After a 30-minute search thru all my listserv files, I can't find the
>>
instructions for unsubscribing.
>>
>>
How do I unsubscribe from Beat-L?
>>
>>
Thanks to anyone who takes time out of their day to tell me! Aviva
>
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 12:25:35 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Christa St. Peter"
<astrid@NORSHORE.NET>
Subject: Re: beat
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Like
many others, I was introduced to the Beats through "On The Road" - I
read it
when I was in tenth grade, mainly, I think, to impress my teachers
and
look cool (even though my friends hadn't the slightest clue who Kerouac
was).
Years later, imagine my delight when I discovered that Dean Moriarty
was an
*actual* guy! I read everything and anything I could get my hands on
that mentioned
Neal Cassady, and for some reason, I feel very close to him
-
perhaps because of certain aspects of my life that are strangely parallel
to his,
and how he lacked self-consciousness about these things, whereas I
am
ashamed.
I've
tried a few times to read "Visions of Cody" all the way through.
That's
what I'm doing right now. I'm looking for the passage that contains
"...My
heart broke in the general despair, and opened up inwards to the
Lord, I
made a supplication in this dream." I was listening to the Kerouac
Sound
Files and heard this. The way he says it - the way it sounds - it's
just
*very* cool - it's gorgeous. I want to know what it means, but I'm
having
trouble finding it this book - I'm also having a hard time rustling
up the
patience to read this book cover to cover. Can someone help me out?
Christa
astrid@norshore.net
----------
>
>
>
hi......
>
>
i'm an eighteen year-old college student just introduced to the world of
jack
>
kerouac and the beat genre........
>
>brian
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 13:47:03 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Jack'l lat letter
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
12:02 PM 10/19/97 -0500, you wrote:
>I
am interested in seeing this letter as well. Can it be posted?
>
>Christa
(astrid@norshore.net)
>
>----------
>>
>>
At 12:14 PM 10/18/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>J. Grant: I would be very interested in seeing a copy of the letter by
>>
Kerouac
>>
>on his death bed.
Jack
was unconscious on his death bed receiving blood transfusions.
Paul....
My e-mail address is:
winte030@tc.umn.edu Thanks,
>Donald
>>
>
>>
>
>
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 12:52:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Christa St. Peter"
<astrid@NORSHORE.NET>
Subject: Re: The Beats (what else)
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Sarah,
I just
finished a research paper on Neal Cassady. One biography in
particular
proved to be quite valuable - "The Holy Goof", by William
Plummer.
It discusses Cassady's relationships with Kerouac, Ginsberg, and
his
wife, Carolyn, in detail. And it's a very good read. "Off the Road"
by
Carolyn
Cassady is also a good source.
Christa
P.S.
Read "As Ever - The Collected Correspondence of Allen Ginsberg & Neal
Cassady" to gain even more
insight into their relationship.
----------
>
From: Sarah Sage <yb806@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
Subject: The Beats (what else)
>
Date: Saturday, October 18, 1997 8:03 PM
>
> I
am a senior in Highschool who has just started to read OTR and has been
>
assigned to write a research paper on Neal Cassady. I read somewhere that
>
Cassady had a sexual affair with Ginsburg, can anyone verify this for me?
> I
was also wondering if Cassady and Kerouac left this world on good
>
terms. Oh, and can my name also be added to the list of Kerouac's last
>
letter?
>
And I would also love to hear anything unusual, or something unable to be
>
found by text about any of the Beats if anyone out there wants to
contribute.
>
>
Sarah
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 15:24:26 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Richard Wallner
<rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck
Comments:
To: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
In-Reply-To:
<199710190619.XAA28962@italy.it.earthlink.net>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>From
what I have read, Memere Kerouac was seriously ill even before Jack
died,
and that the only reason Jack married Stella Sampas was to have a
live-in
housekeeper for her. What Im wondering
is, is there anyone who
can
assess as to Memere's mental state during the last years of her life
and
specifically when she "signed" the will?
Did she
know what she was signing? This was an
old, sick woman who could
well
have been manipulated. And even if she
wasnt manipulated, she
likely
couldnt completely grasp what she was doing, understand the
consequences
of her actions. She probably didnt
realize how important an
author
her son really was, since he didnt exactly die wealthy.
It
seems to me that there is room for a compromise here. Why cant *both*
the
Sampas claims and Jan Kerouac's claims be thrown out, along with the
wills,
and a third party designated by the courts named as executor.
Someone
who has no financial interests in this, and is only committed to
finding
the best place to preserve the Kerouac papers.
Maybe
the papers should be *donated* to a library.
Jan is dead. The
Sampases
have made plenty of money. Getting a
million from NYPL or
anywhere
else isnt going to make much of a difference to anyone central
to this
case. It would have to Jan but she died.
Its
time to let this go IMO...settle it....arbitrate!
Richard
W.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 20:26:22 +0100
Reply-To: dcaridade@geocities.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: dcaridade
<dcaridade@GEOCITIES.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac Letter
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
----------
> From:
Michael Czarnecki <peent@SERVTECH.COM>
>
Please add me to the letter list too, though I feel a little like I
>
shouldn't be taking up list space just to say that but don't want to miss
>
out on it either.
Please
add me also.
daniel
caridade
dcaridade@geocities.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 15:31:44 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Richard Wallner
<rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Re: The Beats (what else)
Comments:
To: Sarah Sage <yb806@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.3.89.9710181744.A12286-0100000@vifa1>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sat,
18 Oct 1997, Sarah Sage wrote:
>
assigned to write a research paper on Neal Cassady. I read somewhere that
>
Cassady had a sexual affair with Ginsburg, can anyone verify this for me?
Cassady
and Ginsberg had a long-time off and on relationship that was
among
other things, sexual in nature.
Ginsberg later married Peter
Orlovsky
but often referred to Neal as the other great love of his life.
> I
was also wondering if Cassady and Kerouac left this world on good
>
terms. Oh, and can my name also be added to the list of Kerouac's last
>
letter?
Apparently
they hadnt seen each other in several years when Neal died in
1968. They had a serious rift because Jack got
fame and fortune writing
a book
about Neal, while Neal suffered from the spotlight and attention
he
didnt ask for and didnt want. Jack
never shared toe OTR royalties or
allowed
Neal to benefit financially (such as letting Neal publish their
correspondence,
which Jack refused to allow) And when
Neal ended up in
San
Quentin on a trumped up marijuana charge, Kerouac didnt lift a finger
to help
get him out or support Neal's family while he was in jail. Did
apparently
send him a typewriterthough. Read
"Memory Babe", written by
fellow
Beat-list subscriber Gerry Nicosia for the details.
Richard
W.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 14:32:08 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: wsb
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Matthew
L Potter wrote:
>
>
anyone have directions for making burroughs'
>
inventions? I'd be grateful.thanks.
matt
>
>
mlpotter@student.umass.edu
i know
somewhere on the net and in print are different directions. I
have no
immediate knowledge where. If i recall i will post to you. I do
remember
one remark that william was disappointed that more people
didn't
actually do it, but was satisfied reading and asking about it.
patricia
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 14:14:25 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "MYLES A. HASELHORST" <hase8846@BLUE.UNCO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac Letter
Comments:
To: dcaridade <dcaridade@geocities.com>
In-Reply-To: <199710191925.MAA09672@geocities.com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
If you
could, please send me a copy of the letter.
Thanks,
Myles.
hase8846@blue.unco.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 16:28:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jennifer Stoner Dorson
<JenPeace2U@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac Letter
If you
could, will you please also send me a copy of the letter also?
Thank
you...peace to you
Jennifer
JenPeace2U@AOL.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 16:43:24 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Signoff Beat-l
Since
I've received so many requests for "signoff" information, let me
quickly
post the procedure: Send mail to
listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu.
Leave
the subject line blank. In the body of
your mail, type
unsubscribe
beat-l.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 16:06:14 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sinverg=FCenza?=
<ljilk@MAIL.MPS.ORG>
Subject: Re: Kerouac Letter
In-Reply-To: <199710191925.MAA09672@geocities.com>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable
>----------
>>
From: Michael Czarnecki <peent@SERVTECH.COM>
>>
Please add me to the letter list too, though I feel a little like I
>>
shouldn't be taking up list space just to say that but don't want to miss
>>
out on it either.
>
>Please
add me also.
>
I would
also like to see the letter.
thanks,
leo
jilk (ljilk@cotter.mps.org)
"Let
us hope that the whores of evil no longer loiter on the doorsteps of
your
path, beckoning you into the brothel of despair, and that hereinafter,
you may
present them with the most rigid manifestations of a firm and manly
will.
Ad astra per aspera." --Jack
Kerouac
"All
I wanted was to be a mariachi like my ancestors. But the city I
thought
would bring me luck...Brought only a curse...I lost my guitar, my
hand,
and her...With this injury, I may never play the guitar
again...Without
her, I have no love. But with the dog...and the weapons,
I'm
prepared...for the future." --The Mariachi in "El Mariachi"
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 15:15:46 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Has Mr. Sampas been making illegal
xeroxes?
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>I
saw letters stamped that clearly said, "Property of Columbia
>College
- Not For Sale or Duplication" - I wonder what that meant? I saw
>those
letters from folders at John Sampas' house which were in turn copies
>taken
from the Memory Babe collection.I wonder what that meant?
>"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
>
Henry David Thoreau
>
Dear
Henry: October 19, 1997
MY xeroxes from Columbia University
are still (legally) in my
possession;
they are not at the University of Lowell.
Therefore if Mr.
Sampas
has been making his own bootleg xeroxes of Columbia University
material,
perhaps from Rod Anstee's collection, I'd say he is the one who is
breaking
the law.
--Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 18:24:22 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Binu Paulose
<paulose@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: hello
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I'm new
to this list. When I was browsing the
web on Allen Ginsberg and
listening
to a Real Audio tribute of him, I came across this page about a
Beat
Generation Mailing list. I thought, "This is UNREAL!" So I
subscribed. I read "On the Road" over the
summer and have been hooked on
it
since. I've gotten others to read books
by Kerouac, Ginsberg, and
Burroughs. I've purchased "Book of Blues",
"Selected Poems" w/ Eric
Drooker,
and I'm making an order for "Kicks Joy Darkness". And when I
come to
NYC during Thanksgiving, or if I find it in a bookstore around
campus,
that is if I find the time to go to a bookstore, I'm gonna look
for the
new book "Some of the Dharma".
Oh man, now I know how Neal
Cassady
feels with his rushes!
Binu
e-mail:
paulose@acsu.buffalo.edu
ICQ # :
3292154
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 18:54:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Has Mr. Sampas been making illegal
xeroxes?
Mime-Version:
1.0
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text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Dear
Henry: October 19, 1997
> MY xeroxes from Columbia University
are still (legally) in my
>possession;
they are not at the University of Lowell.
Therefore if Mr.
>Sampas
has been making his own bootleg xeroxes of Columbia University
>material,
perhaps from Rod Anstee's collection, I'd say he is the one who is
>breaking
the law.
> --Gerry Nicosia
>
The are
the property of the estae to do as he wishes.....
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 18:38:41 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michele M. De Voe"
<DeVoeMM@AOL.COM>
Subject: WILLIAM EVERSON
IS
THERE A WILLIAM EVERSON SCHOLAR/FAN IN THE BUNCH?
I'VE
BEEN RECEIVING POSTINGS FOR OVER 3 MONTHS AND NEVER A WORD IS MENTIONED
ABOUT
HIM.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 18:59:26 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: The Kerouac Quarterly sample copies
available
Mime-Version:
1.0
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text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I have
a number of the Vol. I, No. 2 which I will make available for sample
copies
(to my detractors and all). . .please reserve in advance with your
address.
Those outside of the U.S. will have to send postage in advance.
These
are copies that I was not happy with in their presented form and
therefore
withdrew from immediate sale. This issue and the next will be
combined
and will be republished for institutional and personal
subscriptions.
Thank-you, Paul. . .
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 18:42:13 -0400
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From: Binu Paulose
<paulose@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: fill me in...
MIME-Version:
1.0
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can you
folks fill me in on what's happened thus far on the mailing list?
also
are there any upcoming events regarding any readings or such??
Binu
e-mail:
paulose@acsu.buffalo.edu
ICQ # :
3292154
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 18:44:22 -0400
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From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: estate matters, like it really matters
John
Lash, who is the executor of Jan's will, administers Jan's estate on all
non-literary
matters, including her legal interest in what was Jack's estate.
(John
Lash was Jan's first husband)
Mr.
Nicosia, as the literary executor, has authority only to administer Jan's
literary
estate (writings). I believe this to
mean that Mr. Nicosia only has
a
say/administration authority over Jan's literary works (2 books and an
unpublished
novel).
He has
no legal say or control over Jan's portion of Jack's estate (which was
first
controlled/administered by Jack's mother Memere, then Stella Sampas -
his
last wife, and finally Stella's heirs who administer Stella's estate) (I
am not
sure how John Sampas got the title -Literary executor to Jack
Kerouac).
And
people keep saying that this is not about money, but then talk about who
is
getting the royalties. I believe that
Jan, under the current legal
standing,
received the royalties she was entitled to;
but would not have
been
entitled to receive money from the sale of the actual archives (now
valued
at anywhere from 1 million to 10 million). The court case in Florida
might
have an impact on that.
I for
one like to see this matter discussed in this forum, cause if not here,
then
where?
Also,
while I was not in the main room at the infamous Jack Kerouac NYU
conference
(I was in the lobby) where the altercation occurred between Jan
and
company vs. Allen Ginsberg and company (where Jan and company were
escorted
out)-- I understand that part of the furor was the huge banner that
was
unfurled inside the conference room (that said 'Save Jack's Papers), and
that
Allen's comment was that the conference was not the proper venue for
that
topic. If I am wrong, please correct me.
And it
was at this conference that the petition was passed around which
requested
that Jan be allowed to speak. I did not sign the petition, not
because
of my lack of support for Jan; but because the petition also
requested
that Mr. Nicosia also be allowed to speak at the conference, which
I did
not support.
I think
there are many people interested in having the archives become
publicly
available for serious (and not so serious) study, and that it be
done in
a fair and equitable manner to all parties concerned (including who
gets
the money).
However
I am sure that there are more then two sides to this arguement. And
before
anybody lumps me into into any camp, I AM NOT A NUMBER, I AM A FREE
MAN.
Number
6,
Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 19:00:41 EDT
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Estate Battle
The
anniversary of Jack Kerouac's death will be upon us in a couple of
days. I have asked both Gerry Nicosia and Paul
Maher to drop discussion
of this
topic on the Beat-l list. In honor of
Kerouac's gentleness and
compassion,
I call for everyone on the list to declare a moratorium on
this
topic. I think James Stauffer summed
up the situation well in his
earlier
post. This issue will be settled in the
courts. Anyone
wishing
to discuss the matter further should do so via private email.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 19:07:53 EDT
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Women
Those
of you interested in the women of the Beat Generation might want
to look
at a new publication "A Different Beat: Early Work of the Women
of the
Beat Generation." (Serpent's Tail,
$13.99). Contributors
include
Mimi Albert, Carol Berge, Carolyn Cassady, Elise Cowen, Diane
DiPrima,
Joyce Johnson, Hetti Jones, Eileen Kaufman and Joan Haverty.
While
Brenda Knight's "Women of the Beat Generation" covers many of the
same
authors, there's very little duplication in terms of the works each
editor
selected for publlication.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 19:22:12 EST
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From: "THE ZET'S GOOD."
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: WILLIAM EVERSON
William
Everson, yeas, just been reading his WAR ELEGIES, a fine work of
poetry.
Have also picked up a biography of him which I have not read. I have
always
run into references to him but this is the first time I have really
looked
at his work. Do you have anything in particular that you would recomend?
It's an
interesting life he led.
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 16:31:45 -0700
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From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Jack's last letter
Mime-Version:
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>i'm
very interested in seeing letter also. is there any way you could post it
>to
the list? i'm not sure if you're allowed to do that though. do you know if
>this
letter will appear in Anne Charters second edition of JK letters?
>
>~~Marlene
>
Dear
Marlene and others who have evinced an interest in Jack's last letter:
First off, in answer to your question,
NO, ANN CHARTERS WILL NOT
PUBLISH
THIS LETTER IN THE SECOND VOLUME OF KEROUAC'S SELECTED LETTERS.
The letter we are speaking of was
written (typed) by Jack Kerouac to
his
nephew Paul Blake, Jr., and it is dated October 20, 1969. At the bottom
of the
letter Jack has typed some words from Gabrielle Kerouac to her
grandson
(Paul Blake, Jr.). There is a signature
by Jack and also a printed
"Memere"
which appears to have been done by Jack too.
Now, it's true that Jack began hemmorrhaging around 9AM on
October
20, and
died a day later in St. Anthony's Hospital when they couldn't stop
his
bleeding (the liver creates the stuff that clots your blood, and his
liver
was shot). So when did he write the
letter? asks Mr. Maher. Well, we
also
have a tape of Stella Sampas saying Jack was up all during the previous
night,
that is, the night before he was taken to the hospital--and the
testimony
of Jack's neighbors is that he often stayed up all night long,
they'd
see him standing by his lighted window brooding or sitting in his
rocking
chair swigging from a bottle. There
were mailboxes near his
house--he
lived right in the middle of St. Pete--so he could easily have
walked
to one to mail the letter, say, around 8AM.
There's also the issue
of his
having quoted Gabrielle at the end of the letter. But Gabe was often
up at
night too, especially if Jack was stirring.
This was confirmed in the
piece
by Jay Pendergast published in Mr. Maher's first issue of the The
Kerouac
Quarterly. In fact, Dennis McNally in
DESOLATE ANGEL claims that
Jack
"went in to talk with Memere about four in the morning." McNally
doesn't
say what his source is for this statement.
Also, IT MAKES SENSE, if Jack felt ill
that night, pains in his
abdomen,
etc., that he may well have wanted to send a letter to his nephew
with
instructions of what to do in the event of his death.
The letter was sent to Paul Blake,
Jr., who was 21 years old,
serving
in the Air National Guard in Alaska. My
connection with the letter
began
when I interviewed Paul in Redlands, California, in 1978, 9 years
later. Paul pulled out the letter to show it to me,
and, as I recall, there
was a
postmarked envelope along with it. Paul
then went to the grocery
store
to make a xerox copy for me.
I did not mention the letter in my
biography of Jack Kerouac, MEMORY
BABE,
but I did write and speak about it in other places. In the fall of
1993, I
got a call from John Sampas's lawyer, George Tobia, in which Mr.
Tobia
asked me to make a public statement that the letter was a "forgery."
I told
Mr. Tobia that I could not in good conscience make such a statement.
I had
seen the original of the letter, it sounded exactly like Jack's style,
and the
typeface even matched that used by Jack Kerouac in other letters
sent in
the last few months of his life. Mr.
Tobia said he did not believe
this
last fact, so I checked it out. It
turned out Jack used two different
typewriters
during 1969, but one of them matched the typeface of the Paul
Blake
letter exactly. Mr. Tobia then
suggested that Paul Blake must have
sneaked
into Jack's room, after his death, to type the letter on Jack's
typewriter,
and then he must have mailed the letter to himself in Alaska. I
told
him this seemed ridiculous to me, especially in light of the fact that
Blake
didn't show the letter to anyone for 9 years, till I showed up on his
doorstep.
Around this time, I talked with Ann
Charters, who was preparing the
first
edition of Kerouac's SELECTED LETTERS.
I told her she should print
the
Blake letter in the second edition. She
told me that John Sampas would
surely
fire her as editor if she tried to print that letter. In fact, she
confessed
that Sampas was forcing her to remove letters Jack had written to
certain
of his (Jack's) girlfriends, because Sampas did not like them.
I did send Ann to my MEMORY BABE
archive at U Mass, Lowell, to look
for
some other letters (xeroxes) Jack had written to Paul Blake, Jr. Soon
afterward,
Ann called me, and told me that ALL the letters to Paul Blake
(xeroxes)
were missing from my archive, including the letter dated October
20,
1969. I subsequently went in person to the library, and librarian Martha
Mayo
told me those xeroxes had been stolen.
She told me the person who had
stolen
them was Paul Maher, Jr. (Paul Maher of the Kerouac Quarterly). She
showed
me a clipping about Mr. Maher's arrest, but it only said he had
stolen
some books on silk worms. When I
checked with the Lowell Police
Department,
they told me that they had never found any stolen Kerouac items
in Mr.
Maher's apartment.
So the plot thickened, as they used to
say.
Then Rodney Phillips, curator of the Berg
Collection of the New York
Public
Library, announced that HE HAD THE ORIGINAL OF THE PAUL BLAKE LETTER
sitting
in his collection. Subsequently, Paul
Blake Jr. resurfaced (after
vanishing
for two years) and admitted that he had sold the letter to a
dealer
in New York for ten thousand dollars.
Mr. Phillips told Jan Kerouac and
myself that he believes the Blake
letter
is authentic, not a forgery.
In 1994, Jan Kerouac had the Blake
letter printed on a T-shirt for
her
friends, and it was worn to various Kerouac events and press
conferences. At one such event, John Sampas told people
who were wearing
the
shirt: "You know that's a forgery, don't you?"
The letter was actually published in
full in a literary magazine
called
Bouillabaise, Issue No. 4, 1994. It was published by Dave and Ana
Christy. You can probably order a copy from
them. Their address is 31A
Waterloo
St., New Hope PA 18938. That same year,
the Village Voice ran a
significant
excerpt from the letter. The Kerouac
Estate made no protest at
either
time. But when Joe Grant said he was
going to post the letter on the
internet
last May, he received a threat from George Tobia (Sampas's lawyer)
warning
him of a copyright infringement action.
Mr. Tobia also called me to
warn
that the letter could not be published.
I asked if Mr. Tobia now
considered
the letter genuine, and he refused to say that he did. So I
wondered
how he planned to sue for copyright infringement on a letter he
claimed
was a forgery? Thus far, there has been
no clarification from Tobia
or the
Kerouac Estate.
Since a portion of the letter was
already published in the VILLAGE
VOICE,
I feel it is legitimate for me to quote from the VILLAGE VOICE
article
here, as a scholarly right of fair usage.
I could, if I had the
time,
send everyone a newspaper clipping; or everyone could go to their
local
library searching for it. But to save
time, I will simply quote from
that
newspaper article here. That way,
readers of the Beat-List can make
their
own scholarly judgments about the letter's authenticity:
From "Dread Beat &
Blood," by Richard Gehr and Daniel Pinchbeck, THE
VILLAGE
VOICE, June 7, 1994:
"'Dear Little Paul: This is Uncle
Jack. I've turned over my entire
estate,
real, personal, and mixed, to Memere, and if she dies before me, it
is then
turned to you, and if I die thereafter, it all goes to you.... I
just
wanted to leave my 'estate' (which is what it really is) to someone
directly
connected with the last remaining drop of my direct blood line,
which
is, me sister Carolyn, your Mom, and not to leave a dingblasted
fucking
goddamn thing to my wife's one hundred Greek relatives. I also plan
to
divorce, or have her marriage to me, annulled.
Just telling you the
facts
of how it is....' Jack Kerouac to Paul
Blake Jr., October 20, 1969.
"Jack Kerouac died the following
day and never carried out what may,
or may
not, have been an idle threat ... Blake himself has gone missing for
the
last 18 months and is said to be bitter over having missed out on what
he felt
was his inheritance. The Jack Kerouac
estate stayed with
'Memere'--Gabrielle
Kerouac, Jack's mother--until she died in 1973. Her own
will
gave it to Jack's last wife, Stella.
Upon her death in 1990, the
estate
went to her family and is now managed by her brother, John Sampas...."
(There is a lot more to the article.)
Hope that helps.
P.S.
Tonight is the 28th anniversary of that very night. In fact,
it was
a Sunday night then too, in 1969, October 19, when Jack stayed up all
night,
outside in the back yard watching the stars part of the time,
according
to Stella, and inside at his desk part of the time working on a
new
novel "The Spotlight Print." And
then in the morning, Monday October
20,
after mailing the letter to Paul, he turned on THE GALLOPING GOURMET,
opened
a can of tuna, and started to hemmorhage.
Alas. God rest his spirit.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 19:41:32 -0400
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From: Richard Wallner
<rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Re: estate matters, like it really
matters
In-Reply-To:
<971019184247_-1944817340@emout13.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version:
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As is
often the case, both sides have a point in this argument. They
just
need to meet each other half way.
My
impression is that if Jack Kerouac is up in heaven or somewhere
looking
down on this, he's probably mad as hell.
He's probably sitting
up
there drinking a beer and just wishing he could come back and tell
everyone
involved in this to go jump off a bridge.
Jack
Kerouac wrote for the joy of it, not for the money. He wrote to
share
his passion and his joy for life. The
very idea that his writings
would
end up being fought over for motives of greed and power, would
surely
be repugnant to him.
>From
what Ive read, Jack Kerouac was as passionate abouthow his works
were
handled as he was about the writing itself.
His fights with editors
were
legendary. He would be obsessed with
how his papers were being
handled
if he were still alive.
I think
he'd want his papers in a library. But
not so a daughter he
barely
knew and other people he didnt know at all could split a million
bucks. And he wouldnt find the idea of the Sampases
getting rich off his
writing
palatable either. Remember Jack was a
loner, who supposedly
married
Stella Sampas not out of love, but because he needed a live-in
nurse
for his mother. The only Sampas family
member he really
loved,
if you read what some have written, was childhood friend
Sebastian,
who died years earlier. He didnt have
this
overridinglove
for his inlaws. Based on his earlier
marriages, he
obviously
didnt take to the idea of being married or have much faith in the
institution
of marriage either. If he didnt take
his marriage to Stella
that
seriously, if it was of convenience and not love, Memere would have
been
wrong to assume more and leave his legacy in the care of this
woman's
family. She may as well have left the
estate to Joan Haverty
Kerouac's
family, or Edie Parker Kerouac's. Jack
was married on paper,
but the
strong indication was that he was not married in his heart or in
spirit. In those ways he was a loner.
It
seems this whole thing eminates from the fact that Memere Kerouac
didnt
like Jack's literary friends, like Allen Ginsberg. From what has
been
written, she read Jack's letters and interefered in his
communications
and tried to end friendships with many of his writer
friends. It seems that it was Memere's distrust for
these literary
friends,
whom she saw as the literary establishment, that may have caused
her to
simply leave everything to the Sampases.
Regardless of how the
Sampases
of handled things since, Memere made a mistake.
I
wonder, in fact, if Memere ever wanted Jack's letters and journals, and
writings
like "Some of the Dharma" ever published. Stella Sampas
certainly
sat on them. We are lucky that John
Sampas has finally allowed
them to
start seeing the light of day.
But if
Jack is up there somewhere thinking his whole legacy is being
fought
over by a group of people looking to be rich and important, I bet
he'd
just as soon burn his papers and everything else. These people have
forgotten
WHY Jack wrote. They have forgotten his
spirit.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 16:48:50 -0700
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Sampas calls on Gyenis for
reinforcements
Mime-Version:
1.0
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At
06:44 PM 10/19/97 -0400, you wrote:
>John
Lash, who is the executor of Jan's will, administers Jan's estate on all
>non-literary
matters, including her legal interest in what was Jack's estate.
>(John
Lash was Jan's first husband)
>
>Mr.
Nicosia, as the literary executor, has authority only to administer Jan's
>literary
estate (writings). I believe this to
mean that Mr. Nicosia only has
>a
say/administration authority over Jan's literary works (2 books and an
>unpublished
novel).
>
>He
has no legal say or control over Jan's portion of Jack's estate (which was
>first
controlled/administered by Jack's mother Memere, then Stella Sampas -
>his
last wife, and finally Stella's heirs who administer Stella's estate) (I
>am
not sure how John Sampas got the title -Literary executor to Jack
>Kerouac).
>
>before
anybody lumps me into into any camp, I AM NOT A NUMBER, I AM A FREE
>MAN.
>
>Number
6,
>Attila
>
Attila, you are full of bullshit up to
your neck (if I may use Paul
Maher's
style of phrasing).
NONE OF
THE ABOVE IS FACT. ALL OF THE ABOVE IS
MR. SAMPAS'S and MR. LASH'S
INTERPRETATION. Jan's will in fact puts me in charge of all
her literary
affairs,
and she specifically says that I should control ALL HER JACK
KEROUAC
PROPERTIES in addition to her own writings.
Please see Joe Grant's
web
site, www.bookzen.com, since I believe he has posted Jan's will.
The suit in Florida was clearly
intended to recover her father's
literary
property. However, Sampas and Lash are
trying to say the suit in
Florida
has nothing to do with literary property (no, not much, only about
twenty
million dollars' worth.) This case will
be heard by the appellate
court
in Santa Fe, New Mexico, in two months.
They will decide whether Mr.
Lash
and Mr. Sampas are correct, or whether Mr. Nicosia is correct. IT IS
BEYOND
ABSURDITY FOR MR. GYENIS who claims to be a respectable editor to
print
such rubbish, claiming HE IS THE FINAL LEGAL AUTHORITY ON A CASE THAT
HAS NOT
BEEN DECIDED YET. All I can say is Mr.
Sampas must be desperate if
he has
to hire Gyenis to pretend he is the three judges on the appellate
court
in Santa Fe, to provide a "make-believe decision" to everyone here on
the
Beat List.
I will gladly post the REAL RULING (as
opposed to the make-believe
ruling)
when it occurs in two months. That is a
promise to all of you on
the
Beat-List, and I will hold to it regardless of whether I win or lose.
--Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 18:51:12 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Irving Leif
<ileif@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: The Kerouac Quarterly sample copies
available
Mime-Version:
1.0
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Please
send me a sample copy. Thanks you!!
Dr.
Irving Leif
503
Park Avenue
Hoboken,
New Jersey 07030
At
06:59 PM 10/19/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I
have a number of the Vol. I, No. 2 which I will make available for sample
>copies
(to my detractors and all). . .please reserve in advance with your
>address.
Those outside of the U.S. will have to send postage in advance.
>These
are copies that I was not happy with in their presented form and
>therefore
withdrew from immediate sale. This issue and the next will be
>combined
and will be republished for institutional and personal
>subscriptions.
Thank-you, Paul. . .
>"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
>
Henry David Thoreau
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 20:14:30 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Richard Wallner
<rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Re: Sampas calls on Gyenis for
reinforcements
In-Reply-To:
<199710192348.QAA24577@germany.it.earthlink.net>
MIME-Version:
1.0
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"Ihereby
appoint John Lash as General Executor of this will for all
purposes,
SAVE those concerning any rights that I now possess or may
hereafter
possess in any literary works or literary archival materials,
including
but not limited to any literary works or literary materials of
my
father, Jack Kerouac, and my own literary works and materials,
including
but not limited to "Baby Driver" and "Train Song". As to these
literary
works and materials, I appoint GERALD NICOSIA as Literary
Executor. In his capacity as Literary Executor, he
shall make all
decisions
regarding the appropriate publication, republication, sale,
license,
or any other exploitation of any nature of any intellectual
rights
I have in any literary works or materials.
He shall do these
things
with due regard to fostering economic return without devaluing or
cheapening
the literary works or any intellectual property rights flowing
therefrom,
or in any way reflecting negatively on me, my father, or my
heirs
or beneficiaries.
In
return for his services as Literary Executor, GERALD NICOSIA shall
receive
as compensation 10% (ten percent) of any income generated by
publications,
sales, or other licensing arrangements that he has
negotiated,
payable to him at receipt of any such income by the estate"
>From
Jan Kerouac's will.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 20:21:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Richard Wallner
<rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Jan's will
In-Reply-To:
<199710192348.QAA24577@germany.it.earthlink.net>
MIME-Version:
1.0
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I
forgot to say that I got that paragraph of Jan's will courtesey of
WWW.bookzen.com.
Nice
deal for Nicosia. Not every biographer
ends up with ten percent of
his
subject's estate. Gerald Nicosia may be
a millionaire some day. Of
course
Im sure Jan would much rather he have the money than the Sampases.
Its all
about money *sigh* All parties should
go read "Some of the
Dharma",
and take note of Kerouac's buddhist writings and musings on the
nature
of materialism
richard
w.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 17:32:53 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Jan's will, correction, please note
Mime-Version:
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Content-Type:
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At
08:21 PM 10/19/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I
forgot to say that I got that paragraph of Jan's will courtesey of
>WWW.bookzen.com.
>
>Nice
deal for Nicosia. Not every biographer
ends up with ten percent of
>his
subject's estate.
Please
put your reading glasses back on. I
don't get ten percent of Jan's
estate. Besides, I wasn't HER biographer, I was her
FRIEND FOR TWENTY
YEARS. She stated I should be paid 10% of ANY
FUTURE DEALS I NEGOTIATE WITH
HER
PROPERTIES--that is, PAY FOR WORK DONE.
ALL of the revenue of her estate is
split between John Lash, her
exhusband,
and David Bowers, her half brother.
--Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 20:07:18 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: The Kerouac Quarterly sample copies
available
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
>
>I have a number of the Vol. I, No. 2 which I will make available for sample
>
>copies (to my detractors and all).
please
send me a sample copy,
a detractor
patricia
903
sunset dr.
lawrence,
ks 66044
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 21:15:33 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aviva Vogel
<Aviva99999@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re:
=?gb2312?B?ytW8/sjLICAgICBSZTogb3RoZXIgbGlzdHMvT3BlbiBsZXR0ZXIgdG8gR2Vy?=
This
debate (Kerouac) has surpassed its bounds on this list, and I
respectfully
plea that it continue elsewhere, so I don't have to unsubscribe.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 21:49:13 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: The Kerouac Quarterly sample copies
available
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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At
06:51 PM 10/19/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Please
send me a sample copy. Thanks you!!
>
>Dr.
Irving Leif
>503
Park Avenue
>Hoboken,
New Jersey 07030
>
No
problem and thanks!
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 21:52:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: The Kerouac Quarterly sample copies
available
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
08:07 PM 10/19/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>I have a number of the Vol. I, No. 2 which I will make available for sample
>>
>copies (to my detractors and all).
>
>please
send me a sample copy,
> a detractor
> patricia
>903
sunset dr.
>lawrence,
ks 66044
>
My
pleasure, hope you enjoy it and impart from it some of my good
intentions.
thanks, Paul...
"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau