=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 19 Oct 1997 21:26:13 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Aviva Vogel <Aviva99999@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Private Relationship on List?

 

please please please carry this debate on privately!  unless i'm wrong, and

i'm certainly willing to stand corrected, i think most beat-l members would

agree that this discussion is no longer a contribution to most of us, and has

taken on the air of a private relationship issue.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 19 Oct 1997 21:41:35 +0000

Reply-To:     randyr@southeast.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Comments:     Authenticated sender is <randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>

From:         randy royal <randyr@MAILHUB.JAXNET.COM>

Subject:      Re: The Kerouac Quarterly sample copies available

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> > >I have a number of the Vol. I, No. 2 which I will make available for sample

> > >copies (to my detractors and all).

>

> please send me a sample copy,

>                 a detractor

>                 patricia

> 903 sunset dr.

> lawrence, ks 66044

>

me too please,

a human

randy royal

3009 jolly road

jacksonville, fl 32207

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 19 Oct 1997 19:50:02 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "MYLES A. HASELHORST" <hase8846@BLUE.UNCO.EDU>

Subject:      Re:

              =?gb2312?B?ytW8/sjLICAgICBSZTogb3RoZXIgbGlzdHMvT3BlbiBsZXR0ZXIgdG8gR2Vy?=

In-Reply-To:  <971019211308_1868763643@emout19.mail.aol.com>

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On Sun, 19 Oct 1997, Aviva Vogel wrote:

 

> This debate (Kerouac) has surpassed its bounds on this list, and I

> respectfully plea that it continue elsewhere, so I don't have to unsubscribe.

>

I second that as I believe many others on the list do as well. I

subscribed to discuss literture with other interested individuals, not

polotics.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 19 Oct 1997 10:39:44 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Let's remember Jack

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Memory Gardens

               by Allen Ginsberg

               October 22-29, 1969

 

       covered with yellow leaves

          in the morning rain

 

--Quel Deluge

      he threw up his hands

         & wrote the Universe dont exist

             & died to prove it.

 

Full Moon over Ozone Park

       Airport Bus rushing thru dusk to

                     Manhattan,

 

Jack the Wizard in his

                      grave at Lowell

for the first nite--

That Jack thru those eyes I

        saw

      smog glory light

        gold over Mannahatta's spires

      will never see these

        chimneys smoking

anymore over statues of Mary

        in the graveyard...

Eternal fixity, the big headed

      wax painted Buddha doll

        pale resting incoffined--

 

Empty-skulled New

           York streets

Starveling phantoms

      filling city--

Wax dolls walking park

                Ave,

Light gleam in eye glass

Voice echoing thru Microphones

Grand Central Sailor's

        arrival 2 decades later

                   feeling melancholy--

Nostalgia for Innocent World

      War II--

A million corpses running

        across 42d street

Glass buildings rising higher

                 transparent

                       aluminum--

artifical trees, robot sofas,

            Ignorant cars--

One Way Street to Heaven...

 

Flying to Maine in a trail of black smoke...

Empire State in Heaven Sun Set Red,

         White mist in old October

  over the billion trees of Bronx--

             There's too much to see--

Jack saw sun set red over Hudson horizon

          Two three decades back...

 

Northport, in the trees, Jack drank

     rot gut & made haiku of birds

        tweetling on his porch rail at dawn--

Fell down and saw Death's golden lite

        in Florida garden a decade ago.

Now taken utterly, soul upward,

         & body down in wood coffin

             & concrete slab-box.

I threw a kissed handful of damp earth

         down on the stone lid

                    & sighed

      looking in Creeley's one eye,

Peter sweet holding a flower

       Gregory toothless bending his

         knuckle to Cinema machine--...

 

Well, while I'm here I'll

          do the work--

and what's the Work?

           To ease the pain of living.

Everything else, drunken

                dumbshow.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 19 Oct 1997 19:28:47 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sarah Sage <yb806@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>

Subject:      Re: fill me in...

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.GSO.3.96.971019184121.14286F-100000@callisto.acsu.buffalo.edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

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On Sun, 19 Oct 1997, Binu Paulose wrote:

 

> can you folks fill me in on what's happened thus far on the mailing list?

> also are there any upcoming events regarding any readings or such??

>

> Binu

> e-mail: paulose@acsu.buffalo.edu

> ICQ # : 3292154

>

 

Binu, I am probably not the one who should answer this b/c I've only

been on the list for a few days, but there is a viscious battle going on

about what should be done with the Kerouac estate. Someone else will be

able to fill you in better than I. As for any readings, I don't know, but

I know that a couple weeks ago there was a Kerouac festival and I am

wondering if anyone went to that, and if so what it was like.

 

I also want to know if anyone can tell me who Remi Broncuer (in OTR) is

in real life.

 

This I say not to offend anyone (simply curiosity): If those of you

involved in the estate battle have each others personal e-mail address,

why is the fight being broadcasted on beat-l? Are you trying to prove

something to the rest of us?

 

Sarah

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 19 Oct 1997 20:24:35 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Who Wants to Fight?

Comments: cc: WXGBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

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At 09:15 PM 10/19/97 -0400, you wrote:

>This debate (Kerouac) has surpassed its bounds on this list, and I

>respectfully plea that it continue elsewhere, so I don't have to unsubscribe.

>

                                                        Oct 19, 1997

Aviva, and others on the Beat List,

        Please look at this from my point of view for a moment.

        I do not come looking for a fight.  I did not do so in April, and I

didn't do so last Monday.

        Last Monday, I wanted to announce an important fact to the Kerouac

community, that I had won a legal victory in my continuing effort--as Jan

Kerouac's literary executor--to recover, preserve, and make accessible the

Jack Kerouac archive.  That was all.  I then got hit with a whole load of

slanders, false defamatory information (I "murder" archives, I sell stolen

materials, I make millions of dollars as a literary executor), etc. etc.  By

the same three gentlemen, Paul Maher, Phil Chaput, and Attila Gyenis, who

had done that very thing to me last May.  Three gentlemen who are all

connected in both personal concerns and business concerns with Mr. John

Sampas, the person I am fighting in court.

        It does not take a genius to figure out what is going on here.

        Mr. Sampas has hired three sluggers.  I use "hired" loosely.  They

may not get an actual salary, but they get "percs."  Mr. Maher gets to use

Kerouac drawings for his magazine, he gets inside information on

publications from Mr. Sampas which give him a journalistic "scoop."  Mr.

Gyenis gets ads from Viking Penguin (Mr. Sampas's publisher), the right to

print Kerouac writings, also inside scoops.  Mr. Chaput gets an honored

place in the Lowell Kerouac Committee.

        The three sluggers have been entrusted with an important job.  As

soon as Gerald Nicosia opens his mouth, they are supposed to say the most

insulting things they can about me, make up stories about my legal dealings,

my finances, whatever.  It doesn't even matter whether what they say is

true.  Like Mr. Maher saying he has seen Columbia University xeroxes from my

archive at Mr. Sampas's house, when all the xeroxes I got from Columbia

University are still sitting in MY house.

        The main thing is just to put me on the defensive, get me all

tangled up answering a hundred false charges, get my goat if possible so

that I'll start talking at their level.  Then hope that people will start to

say, as they're saying now, "Oh, this whole thing is too nasty, let's take

it off the list!"

        But WHO made it nasty?

        Look at it from another way.  For several months, while I was off

the list, Mr. Maher was on here regularly, promoting his magazine and the

goodness of Mr. Sampas; other friends of Mr. Sampas were promoting the

Lowell Kerouac Committee, which is in many respects a publicity organ for

Mr. Sampas.  THEY WERE FREE TO SAY WHATEVER THEY WISHED.  They did not have

to worry that every time they opened their mouth, someone would jump in and

say, "You murder archives!" or "You sell stolen materials!" or "You file

bogus lawsuits!" or "Greed is your motivation!"

        What about the other 280 of you on this list?  None of you has to

worry that your personal life, finances, or human decency will be attacked

every time you decide to make a post.  But I am put under this pressure the

instant I decide I to communicate on this list.  THIS IS NOT RIGHT.

        I also do not believe it is right to banish the topic either.  The

fate of Jack Kerouac's papers and unpublished writings is of vital

importance to anyone who cares about his work.  And we could discuss this

topic rationally if the three sluggers stopped making it their job to bloody

me up every time I open my mouth.

        People on this list have shown that they are interested in the

topic.  Many asked about the last letter Jack wrote, on October 20, 1969,

the so-called "Paul Blake letter."  I endeavored to describe the history of

this letter as objectively as I could, without attacking Mr. Sampas or

anyone else.  I even defended Mr. Maher, who was accused of stealing a xerox

of this letter from my archive by U Mass, Lowell librarian Martha Mayo--an

accusation I believe to be false.

        I believe that questions can be answered calmly and coolly and

people can learn things that will help them to understand this whole

controversy.  I am willing to do this, and hope the others are too.  But

that also means being willing to say, "I don't know the answer."  I took Mr.

Gyenis to task (a bit too hotly, I admit and apologize for) because he

claimed to know that I have no authority over Jack Kerouac's estate, when in

fact that issue is currently undecided.  No one can say for sure what my

authority is until the three judges in Santa Fe make that decision two

months from now.  In the meantime, we can state our opinons, or say we don't

know; but Mr. Gyenis did neither, he simply stated as fact something which

is not a fact right now.  And to state as facts things that ARE NOT FACTS

can damage other people, and the damaging of other people is what this

problem is all about.  The problem is not talking about the Kerouac estate.

        Tonight, as Bill Gargan reminded us, is indeed the anniversary of

Jack Kerouac's last conscious night on earth.  It was a Sunday night,

October 19, 1969, and according to Stella, he went out into his backyard in

Florida to look at the stars--a thing he loved to do.  The next night,

Monday night October 20, he would be unconscious from loss of blood in St.

Anthony's Hospital.  So let us indeed honor Jack by peacemaking tonight, and

remember that we're all headed for the same place Jack is now (and Jan is

now, too).  "I had no time to hate," wrote Emily Dickinson.  I have no time

to hate either.  Let's talk quietly and offer facts and insights, not

insults and accusations.  I will happily abide by that, if my 3 opponents

(and my silent opponent Mr. Sampas) will also.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 03:54:07 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      di Prima

 

2 from Diane di Prima...

 

TASSAJARA, 1969

 

Even Buddha is lost in this land

the immensity

takes us all with it, pulverizes, & takes us in

 

Bodhidharma came from the west.

Coyote met him

 

 

PROPHETISSA

 

                                "Two from One

                                Three from Two

                                and out of the Three

                                the Four, as the first

                                                ~Maria the Prophet

                                                (2nd cent. alchemist)

 

Two form One:

 

know this wind as

                        fire.  Flame

at the heart of stone.

                        Leaping arc

from black dwarf star that spins

the double helix.  And know

 

this fire as talk.  The word.

Bursting in cunt or asshole

                                bursting

in cupped and tensing mouth

                                The

fucking word.  Heartfire of stars as they

circle and lean toward touch

                                hold orbit

spiraling

                & reach

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 19 Oct 1997 21:16:21 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Honoring Jack

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As for me, I will remember Jack's life and death as I usually do this

month by rereading "October in Railroad Earth" and thinking of Jack and

Neal when I hear their train making a late run to Hollister and Gilroy.

Just listen to that lonesome whistle blow . . .

 

J Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 19 Oct 1997 21:31:48 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Albert Saijo

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Albert Saijo who with Jack and Lew Welch produced the haiku for "Trip

Trap" will be reading from his new book "OUTSPEAKS" at City Lights in SF

on Tuesday Nov, 11 at 7pm.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 00:27:14 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: estate

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>our own opinions.  When Sampas begins to produce something worthy or

>respect, then we will.  In the mean time, why not call on Sampas to

>publish every letter or communication he has ever issued about Gerry

...

> Has he ever let any

>copyrights lapse?  Exactly what has Sampas done for the public?

 

     amen... was about to say the same thing.. you know, all you sampas

defenders keep coming down on us who question his actions, but the fact

remains that this man who seems to have an abominous influence over so

many people and is the executor of the K estate has not, after all this

time, properly carried through with jack's wishes for his archives,

there is a problem.  John's actions speak his motives and priorities,

Paul, and someone who constantly hinders the efforts of those who want

to preserve the archives doesn't demand much respect from myself and,

i'm sure, quite a few others on this list.

 

      ty

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 19 Oct 1997 21:49:07 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      More Di Prima

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FOR PIGPEN

Velvet at the edge of the tongue,

at the edge of the brain,it was

velvet.  At the edge of history.

 

Sound was light.  Like tracing

ancient letter w/yr toe on the

floor of the ballroom.

They came & went, hotel guests

like the Great Gatsby.

And wondered at the music.

        Sound was light.

 

jagged sweeps of discordant

Light. Aurora borealis over

some cemetery.  A bark. A howl.

At the edge of history & there was

        no time

 

shouts. trace circles

of breath.  All futures.  Time

was this light & sound

spilled out of it.

 

        Flickered

& fell under blue windows.  False drawn.

And too much wind.

 

        We come round.

Make circles.  Blank as a clock.

Spill velvet damage on the edge

of history.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 00:57:06 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Binu Paulose <paulose@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>

Subject:      to jack,

MIME-Version: 1.0

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this is from his Orizaba 210 Blues.  I think about this because I'm high

as hell on caffeine and I have a Physics midterm tomorrow, so...

 

39th CHORUS

 

IX

Out on the highway I thumbed a ride

into Buffalo and I put the bum

on the guy for something to eat

- 'Eat in my drugstore' -

So we went in the back

And he had corn on the cob

And boiled potatos, 'Say fellow

I always hear people talk

about morphine, what's it look

like?' -he shows me-he

had a key a cabinet and

he had bottles of hundreds

quartergrains halfgrains

pantapon delauddit everything

and soon as he tended

the customers I emptied the

bottles-got outa there pretty

quick, bought a safety pin

in Buffalo and took a shot

in the toilet

 

Binu

e-mail: paulose@acsu.buffalo.edu

ICQ # : 3292154

 

"Hip changes a lot.  What's hip is what's cool.  Honest.

Straightforward.  Has some integrity to it.  Interesting.  Original.

Unique.  Special.  Dazzling.  Sexy.  I get to decide what's hip, sitting

here in my coat and tie." -- Jann Wenner, founder, editor, and publisher,

"Rolling Stone"

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 19 Oct 1997 21:55:54 PDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Keith Medline <mrsparty@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      NEW WEBSITE TO VISIT.

Content-Type: text/plain

 

Hello everybody.

There is a new site that I have created.  It is called The Beat

Literature Page.  It was designed to honor...you!  Yes indeed not

Kerouac and our greatest muses but rather your own original creations. I

am looking for poetry, essays, comments, and short literature, or

photographs.

The only problem with the site is there aren't enough submissions to get

it going.  When my web server converts to FTP and allows me access to

their cgi-bin I will also be adding an add-a-story page where all of us

can create one journey.

Please visit me.  I am lonely in cyberspace watching my counter only

progress from friends and family.

the URL is http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/rothko/31/index.html

If at first you don't get on please try again.  The server I am on is

switching from http to FTP so it is kind of a problem.

Thank you once again.

 

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 01:09:55 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Remi Broncouer - Henri Cru

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Sarah,

 

        Bear with us Sarah....all this will pass and we'll get back to Beat

things - but always woven in with some kind of distraction - usually

interesting! ....unlike the estate battle, which as Attilla pointed out

could be very interesting and engaging, but not as cooked up among the

current crew.

 

        Remi Broncouer is Henri Cru, a friend of Jack's from Horace Mann,

the pre-Columbia prep school that they both attended. Like Jack, he became a

merchant seaman, but he stuck at it. Henri introduced Jack to his first wife

Edie Parker.

 

        One of the main reasons that Jack went to San Francisco in 1947 was

that Henri was living there. In 1957-58 they were living together in New

York just as OTR was published and hit big.

 

        Antoine

                                R.I.P Jack and Neal and Allen and Bill and

Stella and Leo and Memere and Gerard and Jan and young Billy and old beat

Huncke and Lew Welch and Lord Buckley and Lenny Bruce and...

 

                        ****************************************

 

>On Sun, 19 Oct 1997, Binu Paulose wrote:

>

>> can you folks fill me in on what's happened thus far on the mailing list?

>> also are there any upcoming events regarding any readings or such??

>>

>> Binu

>> e-mail: paulose@acsu.buffalo.edu

>> ICQ # : 3292154

>>

>

>Binu, I am probably not the one who should answer this b/c I've only

>been on the list for a few days, but there is a viscious battle going on

>about what should be done with the Kerouac estate. Someone else will be

>able to fill you in better than I. As for any readings, I don't know, but

>I know that a couple weeks ago there was a Kerouac festival and I am

>wondering if anyone went to that, and if so what it was like.

>

>I also want to know if anyone can tell me who Remi Broncuer (in OTR) is

>in real life.

>

>This I say not to offend anyone (simply curiosity): If those of you

>involved in the estate battle have each others personal e-mail address,

>why is the fight being broadcasted on beat-l? Are you trying to prove

>something to the rest of us?

>

>Sarah

>

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never

cease to be amused."

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 01:19:41 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Eric R Wood <wooderi1@PILOT.MSU.EDU>

Subject:      Video?

In-Reply-To:  <19971020045554.17280.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Keith Medline" at

              Oct 19, 97 09:55:54 pm

Content-Type: text/plain

 

I would like to know what people know about the OTR video I just found

advertised.  Is it worth it? It came out in June of 1990 if that helps.

Thanks!

Eric Wood

wooderi1@pilot.msu.edu

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 19 Oct 1997 23:16:28 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: October....

Comments: To: Antoine Maloney <stratis@odyssee.net>

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Antoine Maloney wrote:

>

> James,

>

>         I have the recordings of "October..." and they are among my most

> favorites things; but I've never read it.

 

Antoine,

 

October is in in the Kerouac Reader, I believe.  Originally in Evergreen

Review as "Railroad Earth".  If anyone is selling that Evergreen please

let me know.  Do you have a recording that is more complete than the

piece from the box set?

 

James

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 19 Oct 1997 23:20:05 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Remi Broncouer - Henri Cru

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Antoine Maloney wrote:

 

R.I.P Jack and Neal and Allen and Bill and

> Stella and Leo and Memere and Gerard and Jan and young Billy and old beat

> Huncke and Lew Welch and Lord Buckley and Lenny Bruce and...

>

Very nicely said . . . we can all fill in the others, the famous ones as

well as the ones  far fewer of us knew.

 

J. Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 06:29:42 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Honoring Jack

 

as for me - i shall spend every free moment tomorrow reading some of his

poetry and some of Big Sur, listening to him read and meditating...

 

LUCIEN MIDNIGHT

 

Dying is ecstasy

I'm not a teacher, not a

Sage, not a Roshi, not a

writer or master or even

a giggling dharma bum I'm

my mother's son & my mother

is the universe -------

What is this universe

        but a lot of waves

And a craving desire

        is a wave

Belonging to a wave

         in a world of waves

So why put any down,

        wave?

Come on wave, WAVE!

The heehaw's dobbin

        spring hoho

Is a sad lonely yurk

        for your love

Wave lover

 

And what is God?

The unspeakable, the untellable

------

Rejoice in the Lamb, sang

Christopher Smart, who

drives me crazy, because

he 's so smart, and I'm

so smart, and both of us

are crazy.

 

No --- what is God?

The impossible, the impeachable

Unimpeachable Prezi-dent

of the Pepsodent Universe

But with no body & no brain

no business and no tie

no candle and no high

no wise and no smart guy

no nothing, no no-nothing,

no anything, no-word, yes-word,

everything, anything, God,

the guy that ain't a guy,

the thing that can't be

and can

and is

and isn't

 

Kayo Mullins is always yelling

and stealing old men's shoes

 

Moon comes home drunk, kerplunk,

Somebody hit him with a pisspot

 

Major Hoople's always harrumfing

Egad kaff kaff all that

Showing little kids fly kites right

And breaking windows of fame

 

Blemish me Lil Abner is gone

His brother is okay, Daisy Mae

and the Wolf-Gal

 

        Ah who cares?

        Subjects make me sick

        all i want is C'est Foi

        Hope one time

        bullshit in the tree

 

I've had enough of follin me

And making silly imagery

        Harrumph me kaff

        I think I'll take off

        For Cat and Fish

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 05:37:28 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      back and buried

MIME-Version: 1.0

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howdy all.

first full day back from week, 8 stop road trip. came home to discover i

had 796 messages awaitin' me.

road dust gives power

to finger

to delete key

glad to be back. hope to catch up;

perhaps,

just maybe,

i

can

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 07:02:32 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      beat(en) horses

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after 14 days absent from list and home returning from road trip, i download

796 posts, at least a third of which is the same old vitriolic tinged debate

devolving into name calling and what have you.

my finger has a blister on it from using the delete key over and over again

i'm back

don't know for how long

howling in early morning light from computer screen.

173 messages to go.

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 12:31:43 +0100

Reply-To:     dcaridade@geocities.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         dcaridade <dcaridade@GEOCITIES.COM>

Subject:      Re: una poesia scritta in italiano da Lawrence Ferlinghetti.

MIME-Version: 1.0

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----------

> From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

> To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:una poesia scritta in italiano da Lawrence Ferlinghetti.

 

Ciao RINALDO,

 

I'm going to write in english 'cause my written italian is pretty bad,

 

well I'd like to know if there are more of Ferlinghetti's poetry written

directly in italian? Could you post more? Is there a book?

 

thanks,

 

daniel caridade

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 08:15:04 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject:      Re: Honoring Jack

In-Reply-To:  <UPMAIL14.199710200628420353@classic.msn.com>

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                A POEM

        The trash is out of sight and buried,

        The garden ploughed,

        And on the stove an enormous pot

        Of pork and beans.

 

        Jack Kerouac - Some of the Dharma - book six

 

 

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 13:48:02 +0100

Reply-To:     dcaridade@geocities.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         dcaridade <dcaridade@GEOCITIES.COM>

Subject:      Re: Memory Babe

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Hi,

Being from Portugal, I find it very difficult to get in touch with the

latests editions from and around the beat g. writers.

 

One I'm getting a bit curious, after all that's been going on in this list,

is Gerry Nicosia's "Memory Babe: A Critical Biography of Jack Keroauc", can

anyone tell me how can I get it? who is the publisher? All that stuff?

 

Maybe Gerry himself could help me?

 

thanks,

daniel caridade

dcaridade@geocities.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 08:58:11 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Re: October....

Mime-Version: 1.0

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James asked: "Do you have a recording  (of Railroad Earth) that is more

complete than the piece from the box set?"

 

        Heard it first on the Beat Generation box set and more recently

bought the Jack box set, but only have those. Do the two parts that appear

on th Jack box set represent all of the text? Do other recordings of any of

this exist?

 

        In 1994 my son gave me a boot called "Beat Jazz: pictures from the

gone world" which has some other great stuff also ...a segment from "Pull my

daisy" with Jack talking about cockroaches and two pieces from a great late

fifties record called Jazz Canto; Bob Dorough doing Ferlinghetti's "Dog" and

Roy Glenn doing Phillip Whalen's "big high song to somebody" ....more

beatiful railroad images of the Phoebe Snow and the A train.

 

        Also had Coleman Hawkins wonderful solo piece "Picasso", I think,

some Sun Ra, one of Moondog's pieces and Woody Leafer's "there's a drum in

my typewriter..."  I'll be revisiting them today.

 

               Antoine

 

                        *******************

 

>Antoine Maloney wrote:

>>

>> James,

>>

>>         I have the recordings of "October..." and they are among my most

>> favorites things; but I've never read it.

>

>Antoine,

>

>October is in in the Kerouac Reader, I believe.  Originally in Evergreen

>Review as "Railroad Earth".  If anyone is selling that Evergreen please

>let me know.  Do you have a recording that is more complete than the

>piece from the box set?

>

>James

>

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never

cease to be amused."

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 15:02:23 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      IL GRANDE MAESTRO.

In-Reply-To:  <3446C53D.31E0@sunflower.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

                IL GRANDE MAESTRO               by Giancarlo Tenenti

 

                Il grande maestro

                mi ha raccontato

                il grande maestro

                mi ha insegnato

 

                all'improvviso

                il grande maestro

                e' morto

 

 

---

Giancarlo Tenenti, venetian poet & painter,

 

poesia stampata nel dicembre 1988

isola di San Lazzaro

a Venezia, tipografia Armena

---

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:14:53 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From:         Alex Howard <kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>

Subject:      Re: October....

In-Reply-To:  <344AF73B.7A0B@pacbell.net>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

It's also in it's completed form in Lonesome Traveller.

 

------------------

Alex Howard  (704)264-8259                    Appalachian State University

kh14586@am.appstate.edu                       P.O. Box 12149

http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586             Boone, NC  28608

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 08:16:32 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      for dear memory of John Kerouac

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Elegiac Feelings American

for the dear memory of John Kerouac

by Gregory Corso

excerpts

 

1

How inseperable you and the America you saw yet was

        never there to see; you and America, like the

        tree and the ground, are one the same; yet how

        like a palm tree in the state of Oregon ... dead

        ere it blossomed, like a snow polar loping the

        Miami --

How so that which you were or hoped to be, and the

        America not, the America you saw yet could

        not see

 

<snip>

 

Alas, Jack, seems I cannot requiem thee without

        requieming America, and thatn's one requiem

        I shall not presume, for as long as I live there'll

        be no requiems for me

For though the tree dies the tree is born anew, only until

        the tree dies forever and never a tree born

        anew ... shall the ground die too

Yours the eyes that saw, the heart that felt, the voice that

        sang and cried; and as long as America shall

        live, though ye old Kerouac body hath died,

        yet shall you live ... for indeed ours was a time

        of prophecy without death as a consequence ...

        for indeed after us came the time of assassins,

        and who'll doubt thy last words "After me ...

        the deluge."

 

<snip>

 

2

 

<snip>

 

The second greatest cause of human death ... is the

        acquiring of property

No American life is worth an acre of America ... if No

        Trespassing and guarding mastiffs can't tell you

        shotguns will

So, sweet seeker, just what America sought you anyway?

        Know that today there are millions of Americans

        seeking America ... know that even with all

        those eye-expanding chemicals - only more of

        what is not there do they see

 

<snip>

 

Look unto Moses, no prophet every reached the dreamed of

        lands ... ah but your eyes are dead ... nor the

        America beyond your last dreamed hill hovers

        real

 

3

 

How alike our hearts and time and dying, how our America

        out there and in our hearts insatiable yet

        overflowing hallelujahs of poesy and hope

How we knew to feel each dawn, to ooh and aah each

        golden sorrow and helplessness coast to coast

        in our search for whatever joy steadfast never

        there nowever grey

Yea the America the America unstained and never

        revolutioned for liberty ever in us free, the

        America in us - unboundaried and unhistoried,

        we the America, we the fathers of that America,

        the America you Johnnyappleseeded, the

        America I heralded, an America not there, an

        America soon to be

 

The prophet affects the state, and the state affects the

        prophet -- What happened to you, O friend,

        happened to America, and we know what

        happened to America -- the stain ... the stains,

O and yet when it's asked of you "What happened to him?"

        I say "What happened to America has happened

        him -- the two were inseperable"  Like the wind

        to the sky is the voice to the word ...

And now that voice is gone, and now the word is bone, and

        the America is going, the planet boned

A man can have everything he desires in his home yet have

        nothing outside the door -- for a feeling man, a

        poet man, such an outside serves only to make

        home a place in which to hang oneself

And us ones, sweet friend, we've always brought America

        home with us -- and never like dirty laundry, even

        with all the stains

And through the front door, lovingly cushioned in our

        hearts; where we sat down and told it our

        dreams of beauty

        hopeful that it would leave our homes beautiful

And what has happened to our dream of beauteous

        America, Jack?

 

<snip>

 

"What happened to him?"  "What happened to you?"  Death

        happened him; a gypped life happened; a God

        gone sick happened; a dream nightmared; a

        youth armied; an army massacred; the father

        wants to eat the son, the son feeds his stone,

        but the father no get stoned

And you, Jack, poor Jack, watched your father die, your

        America die, your God die, your body die, die

        die die; and today fathers are watching their

        sons die, and their sons are watching babies die,

        why? Why?  How we both asked WHY?

O the sad sad awfulness of it all

 

<snip>

 

Aye, what happened to you, dear friend, compassionate

        friend, is what is happening to everyone and

        thing of planet the clamorous sadly desperate

        planet now one voice less ... expendable as the

        wind ... gone, and who'll now blow away the

        awful miasma of sick, sick and dying

        earthflesh-soul America

 

When you went on the road looking for America you found

        only what you put there and a man seeking gold

        finds the only America there is to find; and his

        investmentment and a poet's investment ... the same

        when comes the crash, and it's crashing, yet

        the windows are tight, are not for jumping; from

        hell none e'er fell

 

4

 

<snip>

 

The ArcAngel Raphael was I to you

And I put the Cross of the Lord of Angels

upon you ... there

on the eve of a new world to explore

And you were flashed upon the old and darkling day

a Beat Christ-boy ... bearing the gentle roundness of things

insisting the soul was round not square

And soon ... behind thee

there came a-following

the children of flowers.

 

 

north beach, s.f. 1969 in Mindfield

 

 

dbr

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 15:32:15 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: The Kerouac Quarterly sample copies available

In-Reply-To:  <1.5.4.32.19971020015245.00696914@pop.pipeline.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

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At 21.52 19/10/97 -0400,

"Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>wrote:

>At 08:07 PM 10/19/97 -0500, you wrote:

>>> >I have a number of the Vol. I, No. 2 which I will make available for

sample

>>> >copies (to my detractors and all).

>>

>>please send me a sample copy,

>>                a detractor

>>                patricia

>>903 sunset dr.

>>lawrence, ks 66044

>>

>My pleasure, hope you enjoy it and impart from it some of my good

>intentions. thanks, Paul...

>"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

>                                           Henry David Thoreau

>

me too, it's possible also to send one copy to me? thanks

 

        Rinaldo Rasa

        via Morlaiter 2

        30173 Venezia-Mestre

        ITALY

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:41:54 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Cosmic Baseball Association <cosmic@CLARK.NET>

Subject:      October 20

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In memory of JK...

 

from Chorus No. 238

Mexico City Blues

 

 

"Money is the root of all evil"

For I will

Write

In my will

"I regret that I was not able

To love money more."

 

 

Are you resting in peace, Jack?

 

 

Regards,

Andrew Lampert

cosmic@clark.net

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:43:04 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      howl with a whine chaser

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on a lighter note, i just returned via bus to and from music and spoken

word event, and couldn't help myself i had to write this..

 

howl with a whine chaser:

   i saw the best part of my mind destroyed by sleep deprivation,

   starving

   hysterical naked

   dragging myself through the greyhound stations looking for my

   angry

   luggage

   angelheaded hipsterette burning for the ancient heavenly

   connectionto

   louisville and back  in the stary dynamo in the greyhound

   machinery at

   night

   who poverty and tatters and howllowed eyed sat up wishing to

   be smoking

   marijuana in the supernatural darkness of cramped seats and

   angry

   seatmates driving past the tops of cities contemplating bladder

   control,

   and patience.

   who bared my ass to heaven while trying to take a leak outside

   of

   cramped and longlined service stops, wishing for the toilet

   paper,

   who passed through yet more bus stations with burning red eyes

   hallucinating arkansas and blake-light tragedy for vertigo when

   reading

   on the road

   who was expelled from the port authority waiting room by angry

   mop and

   broom holding scholars of the war against further grime,

   who refused to cower in unshaven rooms in underwear, praying

   for enough

   money to burn in wastebaskets and listening to the terror

   through the

   aisles

   ______

   29 hrs down and 27 hrs back, my own insomniacathon of the dark

   soul of

   greyhound night.

   _____

   who saw perry stand on one leg w/fez on head to prove sobriety

   sufficent

   for one more vodka

   who saw luther in shock and amazement staring at our power

   pumpkin

   who bickered with and was awestruck by jim's reading, kitchen

   table and

   twice told

   who not only recorded secret tapes of lies and exonerations of

   fellow

   busmates

   but also the rantings of the mad poets at the kitchen table

  .....yadayadayada

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:45:32 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: for dear memory of John Kerouac

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thanks, dave: this, in tandem with oct in rr earth this is my own

readings done on this date.

 

RACE --- wrote:

 

> Elegiac Feelings American

> for the dear memory of John Kerouac

> by Gregory Corso

> excerpts

>

> 1

> How inseperable you and the America you saw yet was

>         never there to see; you and America, like the

>         tree and the ground, are one the same; yet how

>         like a palm tree in the state of Oregon ... dead

>         ere it blossomed, like a snow polar loping the

>         Miami --

> How so that which you were or hoped to be, and the

>         America not, the America you saw yet could

>         not see

>

> <snip>

>

> Alas, Jack, seems I cannot requiem thee without

>         requieming America, and thatn's one requiem

>         I shall not presume, for as long as I live there'll

>         be no requiems for me

> For though the tree dies the tree is born anew, only until

>         the tree dies forever and never a tree born

>         anew ... shall the ground die too

> Yours the eyes that saw, the heart that felt, the voice that

>         sang and cried; and as long as America shall

>         live, though ye old Kerouac body hath died,

>         yet shall you live ... for indeed ours was a time

>         of prophecy without death as a consequence ...

>         for indeed after us came the time of assassins,

>         and who'll doubt thy last words "After me ...

>         the deluge."

>

> <snip>

>

> 2

>

> <snip>

>

> The second greatest cause of human death ... is the

>         acquiring of property

> No American life is worth an acre of America ... if No

>         Trespassing and guarding mastiffs can't tell you

>         shotguns will

> So, sweet seeker, just what America sought you anyway?

>         Know that today there are millions of Americans

>         seeking America ... know that even with all

>         those eye-expanding chemicals - only more of

>         what is not there do they see

>

> <snip>

>

> Look unto Moses, no prophet every reached the dreamed of

>         lands ... ah but your eyes are dead ... nor the

>         America beyond your last dreamed hill hovers

>         real

>

> 3

>

> How alike our hearts and time and dying, how our America

>         out there and in our hearts insatiable yet

>         overflowing hallelujahs of poesy and hope

> How we knew to feel each dawn, to ooh and aah each

>         golden sorrow and helplessness coast to coast

>         in our search for whatever joy steadfast never

>         there nowever grey

> Yea the America the America unstained and never

>         revolutioned for liberty ever in us free, the

>         America in us - unboundaried and unhistoried,

>         we the America, we the fathers of that America,

>         the America you Johnnyappleseeded, the

>         America I heralded, an America not there, an

>         America soon to be

>

> The prophet affects the state, and the state affects the

>         prophet -- What happened to you, O friend,

>         happened to America, and we know what

>         happened to America -- the stain ... the stains,

> O and yet when it's asked of you "What happened to him?"

>         I say "What happened to America has happened

>         him -- the two were inseperable"  Like the wind

>         to the sky is the voice to the word ...

> And now that voice is gone, and now the word is bone, and

>         the America is going, the planet boned

> A man can have everything he desires in his home yet have

>         nothing outside the door -- for a feeling man, a

>         poet man, such an outside serves only to make

>         home a place in which to hang oneself

> And us ones, sweet friend, we've always brought America

>         home with us -- and never like dirty laundry, even

>         with all the stains

> And through the front door, lovingly cushioned in our

>         hearts; where we sat down and told it our

>         dreams of beauty

>         hopeful that it would leave our homes beautiful

> And what has happened to our dream of beauteous

>         America, Jack?

>

> <snip>

>

> "What happened to him?"  "What happened to you?"  Death

>         happened him; a gypped life happened; a God

>         gone sick happened; a dream nightmared; a

>         youth armied; an army massacred; the father

>         wants to eat the son, the son feeds his stone,

>         but the father no get stoned

> And you, Jack, poor Jack, watched your father die, your

>         America die, your God die, your body die, die

>         die die; and today fathers are watching their

>         sons die, and their sons are watching babies die,

>         why? Why?  How we both asked WHY?

> O the sad sad awfulness of it all

>

> <snip>

>

> Aye, what happened to you, dear friend, compassionate

>         friend, is what is happening to everyone and

>         thing of planet the clamorous sadly desperate

>         planet now one voice less ... expendable as the

>         wind ... gone, and who'll now blow away the

>         awful miasma of sick, sick and dying

>         earthflesh-soul America

>

> When you went on the road looking for America you found

>         only what you put there and a man seeking gold

>         finds the only America there is to find; and his

>         investmentment and a poet's investment ... the same

>         when comes the crash, and it's crashing, yet

>         the windows are tight, are not for jumping; from

>         hell none e'er fell

>

> 4

>

> <snip>

>

> The ArcAngel Raphael was I to you

> And I put the Cross of the Lord of Angels

> upon you ... there

> on the eve of a new world to explore

> And you were flashed upon the old and darkling day

> a Beat Christ-boy ... bearing the gentle roundness of things

> insisting the soul was round not square

> And soon ... behind thee

> there came a-following

> the children of flowers.

>

> north beach, s.f. 1969 in Mindfield

>

> dbr

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 08:59:12 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      so in America

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

the connections between Jack and America in the Corso poem and the

connection of the "I" in Howl to the Beat Generation itself gave new

meanings to this wonderful and famous ending:

 

OTR

 

"So in America when the sun goes down and I sit on the old broken-down

river pier watching the long, long skies over New Jersey and sense all

that raw land that rolls in one unbelievable huge bulge over to the West

Coast, and all that road going, all the people dreaming in the immensity

of it, and in Iowa I know by now the children must be crying in the land

where they let children cry, and tonight the stars'll be out, and don't

you know that God is Pooh Bear? the evening star must be drooping and

shedding her sparkler dims on the prairie, which is just before the

coming of complete night that blesses the earth, darkens all the rivers,

cups the peaks and folds the final shore in, and nobody, knows what's

going to happen to anybody besides the forlorn rags of growing old, I

think of Dean Moriarty, I even think of Old Dean Moriarty the father we

never found, I think of Dean Moriarty."

 

dbr

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 10:23:25 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: The Kerouac Quarterly sample copies available

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>me too, it's possible also to send one copy to me? thanks

>

>        Rinaldo Rasa

>        via Morlaiter 2

>        30173 Venezia-Mestre

>        ITALY

>

 

 

Rinaldo, because of the high cost of overseas postage I would need you to

send at least a couple of dollars to cover this and I will be glad to send

it to you or anyone alse on this list. Thanks, Paul...

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 14:10:35 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: for dear memory of John Kerouac

 

thank you David, brought tears to my eyes... sherri

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 10:36:46 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>

Subject:      Barnes & Noble not shelving Kerouac!

In-Reply-To:  <UPMAIL14.199710201410400338@classic.msn.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Many of the Barnes and Nobles around NYC are no longer putting the works

of Jack Kerouac on their shelves.  They still stock a good assortment but

unlike every other author in the fiction section, at several stores I

have seen a sign in the K's where Kerouac should be, saying "For Jack

Kerouac, see Bookkseller"  At at least three of the superstores, the

policy is now to keep all the Kerouac works either in the stockroom or on

the storage shelves high above the actual bookshelves.

 

Kerouac's books apparently get shoplifted a lot because they are all

trade paperbacks that are relatively expensive.

 

Still this is no way to treat a great author.  They dont keep Mark Twain

or Ernest Hemingway's works back in the stockroom, with a sign saying for

these works see a bookkseller.  Someone wanting to browse some Kerouac at

these stores (Union Square, 6th Ave,. Astor Place among others) cannot

easily do so.  They must ask the bookseller to go get a copy of a Kerouac

out of the backroom, and then give it back.

 

This is horrible...*arg*

 

Richard W.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 10:27:27 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Neil Hennessy <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>

Subject:      Re: wsb

In-Reply-To:  <344A6038.568@sunflower.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Sun, 19 Oct 1997, Patricia Elliott wrote:

 

> Matthew L Potter wrote:

> >

> > anyone have directions for making burroughs'

> > inventions?  I'd be grateful.thanks. matt

> >

> > mlpotter@student.umass.edu

>

> i know somewhere on the net and in print are different directions. I

> have no immediate knowledge where. If i recall i will post to you.  I do

> remember one remark that william was disappointed that more people

> didn't actually do it, but was satisfied reading and asking about it.

> patricia

>

 

If you can find it, there's a now out-of-print book:

 

Dream Machine Plans

Brion Gysin

Published by A K Pr Distribution

Publication date: January 1994

ISBN: 1871744504

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:52:32 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Donald E. Winters" <winte030@TC.UMN.EDU>

Subject:      No Subject

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Gerry Nicosia: Would you please send me a sample copy of the  "Kerouac

Quarterly"   Thank you.  My name and address is as follows:

   Donald E. Winters

   5705 43rd Avenue South

   Minneapolis, Minnesota 55417.

Thank you very much.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 07:53:23 PDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Keith Medline <mrsparty@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Re: so in America

Content-Type: text/plain

 

Hi, I am again going to make a shameless plug for my website.  It has a

sound clip of Kerouac reading the parts of the quote below.  Please

visit and contribute to my growing page.

http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/rothko/31/index.html

 

 

 

>the connections between Jack and America in the Corso poem and the

>connection of the "I" in Howl to the Beat Generation itself gave new

>meanings to this wonderful and famous ending:

>

>OTR

>

"So in America when the sun goes down and I sit on the old broken-down

river pier watching the long, long skies over New Jersey and sense all

that raw land that rolls in one unbelievable huge bulge over to the

WestCoast, and all that road going, all the people dreaming in the

immensity

of it, and in Iowa I know by now the children must be crying in the land

where they let children cry, and tonight the stars'll be out, and don't

you know that God is Pooh Bear? the evening star must be drooping and

shedding her sparkler dims on the prairie, which is just before the

coming of complete night that blesses the earth, darkens all the rivers,

cups the peaks and folds the final shore in, and nobody, knows what's

going to happen to anybody besides the forlorn rags of growing old, I

think of Dean Moriarty, I even think of Old Dean Moriarty the father

wenever found, I think of Dean Moriarty."

 

>dbr

>

 

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:59:02 +0000

Reply-To:     jhasbro@tezcat.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         John Hasbrouck <jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>

Subject:      Call me a voyeur

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Dear Listers,

 

It is impossible to overstate the relevance of the Estate Debate to the

Beat-L Listserv.

 

I am reiterating my position here in response to several recent postings

to the contrary.

 

As I suspected all along, as more posts come in from the major players,

they each show their true colors in their own way, whether that be by a

tight argument or sloppy shot from the hip.

 

Anyone uninterested should delete or unsubscribe. Period.

 

 

*** JOHN HASBROUCK

*** http://www.tezcat.com/~jhasbro

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:57:56 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Donald E. Winters" <winte030@TC.UMN.EDU>

Subject:      Re: The Kerouac Quarterly sample copies available

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Paul: I would very much like to receive a sample copy of the "Kerouac

Quarterly".  My name and address are as follows:

   Donald E. Winters

   5705 43rd Avenue South

   Minneapolis, Minnesota 55417

Thank you very much.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 08:07:37 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: October....

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Antoine Maloney wrote:

>

> James asked: "Do you have a recording  (of Railroad Earth) that is more

> complete than the piece from the box set?"

>

>         Heard it first on the Beat Generation box set and more recently

> bought the Jack box set, but only have those. Do the two parts that appear

> on th Jack box set represent all of the text? Do other recordings of any of

> this exist?

 

Antoine,

 

The recordings I have heard are a fairly small snippet from October.

Last October we talked about this piece abit and Marie Countryman posted

some nice long sections.  I would be hard put to find those in my old

files however.

 

As for other recordings, I don't know.  One of the more learned JK

scholars out there might have an answer.

 

Jame Stauffer>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 10:02:57 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Jack's last letter

In-Reply-To:  <199710192331.QAA16421@germany.it.earthlink.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>>i'm very interested in seeing letter also. is there any way you could post it

 

>Dear Marlene and others who have evinced an interest in Jack's last letter:

>        First off, in answer to your question, NO, ANN CHARTERS WILL NOT

>PUBLISH THIS LETTER IN THE SECOND VOLUME OF KEROUAC'S SELECTED LETTERS.

>        The letter we are speaking of was written (typed) by Jack Kerouac to

 

 

Gerry,

 

You are absolutely incredible. This post is not describably in the brief

minute I have before showing up to work with some 2nd and 3rd graders at a

nearby elementary school--helping with writing in their computer lab.

 

This is what makes all this BS worthwhile. Good, solid, research by a fine

writer--and a friend.

 

More later,

 

joe

 

        Small Press Authors and Publishers display books

                        FREE

                           at

                            BookZen

                        http://www.bookzen.com

             402,900 visitors - 07-01-96 to 07-01-97

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 10:23:31 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      sunflower sutra while listening to Kicks joy darkness

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Sunflower Sutra

by Allen Ginsberg

excerpts

 

I walked on the banks of the tincan banana dock and sat down

        under the huge shade of a Southern Pacific locomotive to

        look at the sunset over the box house hills and cry.

Jack Kerouac sat beside me on a busted rusty iron pole,

        companion, we thought the same thoughts of the soul,

        bleak and blue and sad-eyed, surrounded by the gnarled

        steel roots of trees of machinery.

The oily water on the river mirrored the red sky, sun sank on top

        of final Frisco peaks, no fish in that stream, no hermit in

        those mounts, just ourselves rheumy-eyed and hungover

        like old bums on the riverbank, tired and wily.

Look at the Sunflower, he said, there was a dead gray shadow

        against the sky, big as a man, sitting dry on top of a pile of

        ancient sawdust --

-- I rushed up enchanted -- it was my first sunflower, memories

        of Blake -- my visions -- Harlem

 

<snip>

 

So I grabbed up the skeleton thick sunflower and stuck it at my

        side like a scepter,

and deliver my sermon to my soul, and Jack's soul too, and anyone

        who'll listen,

-- We're not our skin of grime, we're not our dread bleak dusty

        imageless locomotive, we're all beautiful golden sunflowers

        inside, we're blessed by our own seed & golden hairy naked

        accomplishment-bodies growing into mad black formal sun-

        flowers in the sunset, spied on by our eyes under the shadow

        of the mad locomotive riverbank sunset Frisco hilly tincan

        evening sitdown vision.

 

Berkeley 1955

 

thinking of Jack today ---- (obviously <grin>)

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

(the sunflower state <bigger grin>)

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 10:49:35 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      A REPEAT --  Saw Jack Kerouac at the grocery store

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

RACE --- wrote:

>

> > Subject: Re: Saw Jack Kerouac at the grocery store

> > Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 11:32:59 -0500

> > From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@sunflower.com>

> > To: race@midusa.net

> > References: <336A1529.3DD8@midusa.net>

> >

> > oh god what a beautiful post? you should list it

> > p

> > RACE --- wrote:

> > >

> > > as i was pumping five bucks

> > > into my 1974

> > > guzzler

> > > i gazed across the avenue

> > > to see Jack

> > > jumping out of the back

> > > of an ugly green

> > > pickup truck

> > > with Vegas plates

> > > and

> > > I quickly paid for

> > > my gasoline

> > > and

> > > zoooomed across

> > > to the grocery market

> > > i got a glimpse of him

> > > saw him grabbing

> > > four cans of spaghetti

> > > sauce at 99cents

> > > grabbed four myself.

> > >

> > > then in the frozen

> > > foods he was a

> > > blur

> > > i grabbed

> > > green giant broc & cauli

> > > green giant corn

> > > food club california mix

> > > and some

> > > azparagus

> > > for good measure

> > >

> > > chased him down

> > > and he threw

> > > three huge potatoes at me

> > > which i caught

> > > at 2.42 cents a pound

> > >

> > > lost him then

> > > got my lentils and Uncle Ben's

> > > cause i liked the name

> > > better than Minute Rice

> > > two bags of sghatti noods

> > >

> > > and other junk

> > > when i saw him heading

> > > thru

> > > the checkout stand

> > > i checked out

> > > at $32.15

> > > almost fainted at the

> > > bargain

> > > zooomed off for

> > > cheap cigarettes

> > > and caught up with

> > > him

> > > at the House of Sight and Sound

> > > trapped in a CD case

> > > for $25.00

> > > but had to pass

> > > and took

> > > Mimi and Richard Farina

> > > for $16.00

> > > instead.....

> > >

> > > hope you're having A Beautiful Day !!!

> > > things are slowly drying up in

> > > the puddles here.

> > >

> > > david

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 00:24:19 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Honoring Jack

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Poem

     by Jack Kerouac

 

Anyway the time has come to explain

     the Golden Eternity

and how the iridescent paraphernalia of radiating candles

     ceases

     when mentation ceases

because I know what it's like to die,

     to cease mentating, one day I died,

I fainted actually, I was stooping smelling

strapping flowers in the cosmos yard

of my mother's cozy flower house

in Auffinsham Shire, in Queens,

and stood up fast taking deep breath,

    blood rushed from head, next thing I knew

    woke up flat on my back in the grassy sun

    and had been out fine minutes

 

And I had seen the Golden Eternity.

  The Lamb was alone with the Lamb.

  The Babe was alone with the Baby Lamb.

  The Shroud was alone with the Golden Shroud.

 

I was alone with God, who

  is God, who was Me,

 who was All,

        he stood high on a hill

       overlooking Mexico City

        radiating messages

       out of a white Tiot

 

1958, Northport

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 12:19:23 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Russell duPont <dupbooks@TIAC.NET>

Subject:      Re: Poetry catalogue

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

My new catalogue, Poets and Poetry, can be viewed at my website at

 

                www.tiac.net/users/dupbooks

 

Russell duPont

 

                                Russell R. duPont

                                   Bookseller

                                41 Star Street

                                Whitman, MA 02382

                                 781/447-4091

                                dupbooks@tiac.net

                       Web Site. http://www.tiac.net/users/dupbooks

 

 

                               Specializing in books

                             and exhibition catalogues

                          on the fine and decorative arts.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 12:43:14 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>

Subject:      The estate battle

Comments: To: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

In-Reply-To:  <199710200032.RAA12187@germany.it.earthlink.net>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

The Estate Battle is or should be enormously important to all who value

Kerouac.  This list *is* the proper place for its discussion.  As long as

its done civilly and without name calling.

 

 

There *is* a huge amount of money involved here.  If I were Nicosia, and

I could get Memere Kerouac's will thrown out, establishing Jan as heir,

and thus become in effect literary executor of Jack's estate, I would do

the following:

 

1. Renegotiate the "On the Road" movie rights.  If Nicosia is right, the

Sampases didnt really have the rights to sell movie options, therefore

any current movie contract would be invalid.  Make Coppola and Paramount

shell out a few million more bucks.

 

2. Renegotiate any other rights associated with the OTR movie, including

the mass market paperback OTR movie tie-in (OTR will likely become a best

seller again when/if a movie comes out, so this is worth a hell of a lot

of money if Nicosia can renegotiate)

 

3. Fire Doug Brinkley as editor of Kerouac's Journals.  No one would be

more qualified than Nicosia himself to do the editing, and he can

generate the prestige and the editor's fees for himself.

 

4. Get at least a million from a library for Kerouac's papers.  If Im

Nicosa I want my hundred grand cut to pay the lawyers fees!

 

5. *Insist* that Ann Charters include Jack's last letter in the second

volume of letters, no matter what John Sampas says.

 

There are millions of dollars involved here.  Im sure Nicosia might do a

better job than John Sampas with the estate.  But who knows?

 

RJW

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 13:05:53 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Subject:      Re: estate matters, like it really matters

In-Reply-To:  <971019184247_-1944817340@emout13.mail.aol.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Sun, 19 Oct 1997, Attila Gyenis wrote:

 

> Also, while I was not in the main room at the infamous Jack Kerouac NYU

> conference (I was in the lobby) where the altercation occurred between Jan

> and company vs. Allen Ginsberg and company (where Jan and company were

> escorted out)-- I understand that part of the furor was the huge banner that

> was unfurled inside the conference room (that said 'Save Jack's Papers), and

> that Allen's comment was that the conference was not the proper venue for

> that topic. If I am wrong, please correct me.

 

Don't remember seeing the banner, but if this happened it seems weird --

definitely not Ginsberg's usual progressive-left hippie sensibilities of

"let's all sit down and talk this through."

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 10:22:43 PDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Keith Medline <mrsparty@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Public Apology

Content-Type: text/plain

 

Hello everybody,

 

I did not realize that I was treading on anybody's feet when I published

the Kerouac clip that is on my site.  I took it from a box set called

The Beat Generation.  There is a CD in it devoted to Kerouac's readings.

I especially liked this selection so I used WDAC to rip it from the CD

and publish it.  I have recently been contacted by Steve Voss at Beat

Cafe. (A GREAT SITE VISIT IT IF YOU HAVEN'T)

He feels that I cropped the clip from his page.  The intention was not

mine to cause disharmony among us.  His link is now placed on my site,

as well as this public apology.  I feel that this is enough to remedy

any hard feelings.

Sincerely apologetic

Keith

http://www.beatcafe.com

http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/rothko/31/index.html

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 10:57:55 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: Memory Babe

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>

>One I'm getting a bit curious, after all that's been going on in this list,

>is Gerry Nicosia's "Memory Babe: A Critical Biography of Jack Keroauc", can

>anyone tell me how can I get it? who is the publisher? All that stuff?

>

>Maybe Gerry himself could help me?

>

>thanks,

>daniel caridade

>dcaridade@geocities.com

>

Dear Daniel,       Oct 20, 1997

        Thanks for your interest in my book.  If you read Spanish, the

easiest thing might be for you to get a copy of the Spanish translation from

Circe Ediciones.  Their address is Avenida Diagonal, 459, 08036 Barcelona,

SPAIN (Espana).

        The English edition of MEMORY BABE is distributed by Princeton

University.  In the United States there is a toll-free number,

1-800-822-6657.  I don't know if it works from Portugal, however.  If it

doesn't, you could try writing to California-Princeton Fulfillment Services,

1445 Lower Ferry Road, Ewing, New Jersey 08618.

        I hope you enjoy the book.  I would also recommend, for its

spectacular photos, Steven Turner's biography of Kerouac called ANGELHEADED

HIPSTER, which is distributed by Viking/Penguin.

        Best always, Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 13:54:07 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 

>Paul stated in his last post he wants to take it off the list.

>Bentz wants to take it off the list.  That leaves one person left to

>say he will take it off the list.  Let's get back to

>discussing literature.

 

   my potentially worthless 2 cents here.  just a suggestion to think

about what it is you're doing, those of you trying to force certain

topics off of the list.  you are censoring, in a loosely defined sense

of the word, yes, but it's a dangerous thing.  not because of any of

that free speech 1st amendment crap, but because this is a

MULTI-FACETED open forum, with MANY DIFFERENT interests and subtopics.

are we supposed to not discuss a particular beat writer if a certain

group of people don't like him? y'all say this list is about the lit,

but it's not, it's about beat stuff, the lit, the lives, the culture,

the theory, the music, all of it... including the more unappealing

sides of it.. if something as minutely dreary as this estate topic

bothers youu so much, I have to wonder how you cope with the truckload

of daily inconveniences life throws at you.  I too get a little bugged

about the massive amount of messages over this topic, but not because

of their quantity, rather because of their quality; i welcome any

message interesting and well-spoken concerning any topic if i feel that

i can enhance my viewpoint on a subject, as i'm sure any of you do.  so

maybe your emphasis should be on removing the large body of messages

that contain nothing but insults and other garbage, rather than the

topic completely.. ignoring something is no way to solve it..  and you

can't have a perfect list, people fight, some people clash with certain

others, some people are just plain jerks, there is no perfect list..

trust me, this list is one of the more civil ones out there on the

whole...

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 14:06:04 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 

>It seems to me that there is room for a compromise here.  Why cant

>*both*

>the Sampas claims and Jan Kerouac's claims be thrown out, along with the

>wills, and a third party designated by the courts named as executor.

>Someone who has no financial interests in this, and is only committed to

>finding the best place to preserve the Kerouac papers.

 

     good idea!  I nominate myself as the new executor of the Kerouac

estate, anyone want to second that?  hehehe....

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 13:26:40 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: Memory Babe

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

patricia writes

 

memory babe, is great, well done, beautiful, the best on jk i have read

or seen.

p

 

Gerald Nicosia wrote:

>

> >

> >One I'm getting a bit curious, after all that's been going on in this list,

> >is Gerry Nicosia's "Memory Babe: A Critical Biography of Jack Keroauc", can

> >anyone tell me how can I get it? who is the publisher? All that stuff?

> >

> >Maybe Gerry himself could help me?

> >

> >thanks,

> >daniel caridade

> >dcaridade@geocities.com

> >

> Dear Daniel,       Oct 20, 1997

>         Thanks for your interest in my book.  If you read Spanish, the

> easiest thing might be for you to get a copy of the Spanish translation from

> Circe Ediciones.  Their address is Avenida Diagonal, 459, 08036 Barcelona,

> SPAIN (Espana).

>         The English edition of MEMORY BABE is distributed by Princeton

> University.  In the United States there is a toll-free number,

> 1-800-822-6657.  I don't know if it works from Portugal, however.  If it

> doesn't, you could try writing to California-Princeton Fulfillment Services,

> 1445 Lower Ferry Road, Ewing, New Jersey 08618.

>         I hope you enjoy the book.  I would also recommend, for its

> spectacular photos, Steven Turner's biography of Kerouac called ANGELHEADED

> HIPSTER, which is distributed by Viking/Penguin.

>         Best always, Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 14:55:55 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "PoOka(the friendly ghost)" <jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>

Subject:      orgone machines.

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

has anyone attempted to build one of Reich's Orgone machines? If so what

was your experience inside of one? If anyone is planning to open a used

book store or a coffee shop these swell machines might come into some

use. Just an idea.

                                                        jason

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 14:45:22 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck

Comments: To: Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

In-Reply-To:  <msg1088511.thr-b3cc9950.55d4a82@umit.maine.edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Mon, 20 Oct 1997, Tyson Ouellette wrote:

 

> >It seems to me that there is room for a compromise here.  Why cant

> >*both*

> >the Sampas claims and Jan Kerouac's claims be thrown out, along with the

> >wills, and a third party designated by the courts named as executor.

> >Someone who has no financial interests in this, and is only committed to

> >finding the best place to preserve the Kerouac papers.

>

>      good idea!  I nominate myself as the new executor of the Kerouac

> estate, anyone want to second that?  hehehe....

>

 

It needs to be someone who agrees to NOT benefit financially from the

job.  Who agrees to donate all executor's fees to a Kerouac fund or

something.  Nicosia should for instance agree to donate any fees he

recieves via his job as Jan's executor to the Jack Kerouac school for

Disemobdied Poetics, or to someplace like that.  Jack deseves somebody

handling these things who isnt in it for the money.

 

By donating his cut, Nicosia would be proving that his motives are purer

than the Sampases or anyone else's involved.

 

RJW

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 12:04:58 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Michael R. Brown" <foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>

Subject:      Re: The estate battle

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.971020122619.15639A-100000@cap1.capaccess.org>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Mon, 20 Oct 1997, Richard Wallner wrote:

 

> Im sure Nicosia might do a better job than John Sampas with the estate.

> But who knows?

 

If love and dedication is the standard, there's no doubt whose side the

angels are on.

 

 

 

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

  Michael R. Brown                        foosi@global.california.com

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

 

                     "Why can't it just be, Michael?"

 

           Simunye, in conversation with Foosi, September 1997

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 15:25:49 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: Memory Babe

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

A model of scholarship as I have said more than once to Gerald Nicosia.

though the NY Times felt that there was too much input from people who knew

Jack kerouac, I felt that there could have been more instead of the textual

analysis

which would have made the book three times larger. But, it is his book and a

definite feather in his hat. It will be interesting to see how it holds up

next to one that claims to be "definitive" (Ellis Amburn's)and "authorized"

Douglas Brinkley. Though, to be fair, they have a lot more to go on now than

Gerry did when he was researching his book. Paul....

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 14:16:39 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Entropy Operator <rush2@INSTANTLINUX.COM>

Subject:      Re: The estate battle

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.BSI.3.95.971020120348.25887C-100000@global.california.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

> > Im sure Nicosia might do a better job than John Sampas with the estate.

> > But who knows?

>

> If love and dedication is the standard, there's no doubt whose side the

> angels are on.

>

 

I dont get it.

The list moderator kindly asked

this thread be canceled

yet i've gotten 50 non-beat

related e-mails about the stupid

fight.

 

politics are for people not capable of their own thoughts.

That's why we get politicans.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 12:23:49 PDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Keith Medline <mrsparty@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      New Sound!

Content-Type: text/plain

 

Hello Again,

 

I have added a new sound clip to ever growing site!  Keep those

submissions coming, I can handle all you can give me(with a litte time).

Right now, everything I have is on the site.

If you go to the Kerouac page, you will find a small portion of a song

called kerouazy by Don Morrow.

I added this for a few reasons

1) To dispell rumors that my page is simply a rip off of other great and

more established sites.

2) To prove that I am always updating littel things to make my site more

enjoyable for you.

3) The song is a tribute to Kerouac, who has earned my respect and love.

4) To satisfy my urge to contribute to this growing community of people.

 

Thank you so much for your support and remember I NEED MORE ESSAYS,

POEMS, SHORT STORIES, AND RANDOM COMMENTS!!!!

 

Thank you,

Keith Medline

 

PS don't forget to sign my guestbook, it helps me know who to send site

update information to!  Thank you.

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 15:30:20 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      faux pas, n'est pas?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

> did i hallucinate or did i not send a 'howl with whine chaser' to the

list?

> it's really weird feeling like you can hear a pin drop after farting

at the

> crowned head'o'states banquet table for the queen of xavier.

> duh?

> mc

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 19:34:46 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: The estate battle

 

forgive me - but this has nothing to do with American politics and it's a VERY

Beat subject.  the misfortune is that instead of its being an enlightened and

enlightening open, honest debate, it's been a personal battle between people

whose interests clash and who resort to tearing each other down.

 

the discussion should, IMHO be allowed, but anyone who continues to post

slanderous, libelling, childish posts should be dumped off the list after a

warning or two.

 

ciao,

sherri

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Entropy Operator

Sent:   Monday, October 20, 1997 11:16 AM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Re: The estate battle

 

> > Im sure Nicosia might do a better job than John Sampas with the estate.

> > But who knows?

>

> If love and dedication is the standard, there's no doubt whose side the

> angels are on.

>

 

I dont get it.

The list moderator kindly asked

this thread be canceled

yet i've gotten 50 non-beat

related e-mails about the stupid

fight.

 

politics are for people not capable of their own thoughts.

That's why we get politicans.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 19:40:56 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck

 

Richard, while that's noble, Gerry or anyone else does deserve something for

the huge amount of work this can entail.  unless the executor is someone who

is independently wealthy, s/he couldn't work a second job in order to put food

on the table.

 

given dear Jack's  ever-growing popularity, there will be even more to do in

the coming years.

 

ciao,

sherri

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Richard Wallner

Sent:   Monday, October 20, 1997 11:45 AM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck

 

On Mon, 20 Oct 1997, Tyson Ouellette wrote:

 

> >It seems to me that there is room for a compromise here.  Why cant

> >*both*

> >the Sampas claims and Jan Kerouac's claims be thrown out, along with the

> >wills, and a third party designated by the courts named as executor.

> >Someone who has no financial interests in this, and is only committed to

> >finding the best place to preserve the Kerouac papers.

>

>      good idea!  I nominate myself as the new executor of the Kerouac

> estate, anyone want to second that?  hehehe....

>

 

It needs to be someone who agrees to NOT benefit financially from the

job.  Who agrees to donate all executor's fees to a Kerouac fund or

something.  Nicosia should for instance agree to donate any fees he

recieves via his job as Jan's executor to the Jack Kerouac school for

Disemobdied Poetics, or to someplace like that.  Jack deseves somebody

handling these things who isnt in it for the money.

 

By donating his cut, Nicosia would be proving that his motives are purer

than the Sampases or anyone else's involved.

 

RJW

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 14:43:34 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Dana Lee Kober <dana@SPIDERLINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: politics

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.LNX.3.96.971020141536.7614A-100000@poconos.net>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

 this is off the "beat" subject but,

 

On Mon, 20 Oct 1997, Entropy Operator wrote:

 

> politics are for people not capable of their own thoughts.

> That's why we get politicans.

 

I'd rethink that statement.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 14:54:42 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>

Subject:      Re: faux pas, n'est pas?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

"Howl With Whine Chaser" was tres amusing, Marie!  Thanks for sharing it

with us...especially at a time like this, when the list can *definitely*

use some lightening up!

 

Jym

----------

> From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

> To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

> Subject: faux pas, n'est pas?

> Date: Monday, October 20, 1997 10:30 AM

>

> > did i hallucinate or did i not send a 'howl with whine chaser' to the

> list?

> > it's really weird feeling like you can hear a pin drop after farting

> at the

> > crowned head'o'states banquet table for the queen of xavier.

> > duh?

> > mc

> >

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 12:46:48 PDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Re: faux pas, n'est pas?

Content-Type: text/plain

 

You did get my overwhelmed into speechlessness review? If not let me

know and I will dig it oufrom my treasured archives.

 

Admiring fan with love

 

leon

 

>Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 15:30:20 +0000

>Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

>From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

>Subject:      faux pas, n'est pas?

>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

>

>> did i hallucinate or did i not send a 'howl with whine chaser' to the

>list?

>> it's really weird feeling like you can hear a pin drop after farting

>at the

>> crowned head'o'states banquet table for the queen of xavier.

>> duh?

>> mc

>>

>.-

>

 

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 15:04:43 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bob Lewis <kokupokit@JUNO.COM>

Subject:      Re: faux pas, n'est pas?

 

marie-

are you trying to start an argument here or what? this is no place for

that kind of nonsense. we're a beat discussion group, focused on the

discussion of beat literature, and surely none of us would ever use this

as a public forum to debate personal issues. :)

 

so how was the trip?

 

group-

really diggin a book i just got- the letters of wsb, 1945-1956. gives

great insight to his beliefs and thoughts of america, junk, etc. in a

series of letters to allen and jack, he talks about the writing of junky,

and all the editing he put into it. i think the reason he was big on the

cut and paste thing is because he made so many refinements that he just

ended up losing half the book.

interesting stuff in this here book. highly recommended for those who

haven't seen it, and would like to discuss with those who have.

 

peace-

bob

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 16:23:15 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck

In-Reply-To:  <UPMAIL14.199710201940480693@classic.msn.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Mon, 20 Oct 1997, Sherri wrote:

 

> Richard, while that's noble, Gerry or anyone else does deserve something for

> the huge amount of work this can entail.  unless the executor is someone who

> is independently wealthy, s/he couldn't work a second job in order to put food

> on the table.

 

Nicosia has doubtless made plenty of money from "Memory Babe" and his

other writing endeavors.  When you become an executor of a "friend's"

estate, you should want to do so out of love, not money.

 

Would Nicosia have accepted the job if the cut was 5% or 2%.  Where does

personal interest end and financial interest begin?  Everyone involved in

this is hip deep in greed of one form or another.

 

Jack Kerouac died broke and all these people want is to make money off of

him....very sad.

 

RJW

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 16:18:10 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: faux pas, n'est pas?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

it must have been the speechless review. hence, invisibility! oh leon i am

in such high and mischevous spirits today! i think i already wrote you

about my growing train stash and my whiriling about. i'm unpacked vacuumed

shrunk lawyered poeted and many other things.

oh yeh: i got john berryman out of library i want to be able to read and

understand his dream songs.

bye!

love and hugs

us!

 

Leon Tabory wrote:

 

> You did get my overwhelmed into speechlessness review? If not let me

> know and I will dig it oufrom my treasured archives.

>

> Admiring fan with love

>

> leon

>

> >Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 15:30:20 +0000

> >Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

> >From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

> >Subject:      faux pas, n'est pas?

> >To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

> >

> >> did i hallucinate or did i not send a 'howl with whine chaser' to the

> >list?

> >> it's really weird feeling like you can hear a pin drop after farting

> >at the

> >> crowned head'o'states banquet table for the queen of xavier.

> >> duh?

> >> mc

> >>

> >.-

> >

>

> ______________________________________________________

> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 20:29:36 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      a feeble attempt to honor Jack

 

OCTOBER 20, 1997

(Supplication to the Soul of Jack Kerouac)

 

where is Jack's

ghost today?

hope it's

sitting beside me

reminding me

it doesn't have to be

this way.

 

sing to me Jack

little Boddhi of the western world

sing me back

to the America

that is a dream,

to the soul

in the steam      stream

                gears       piers               mountains

        moons                   Junes   tunes

of a time that maybe never was

and yet ever will be

 

then come sit like a lotus

with me

in sweet   sorrowful     tragic         infinite

                                                        compassion

 

sherri sarantakis

10/20/97

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 20:38:44 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck

 

Richard, i have no idea if Gerry would do it for free or not...  why are you

so sure that he is being motivated by money?  i personally have no way of

knowing how much money may be a part of his motivation, but i have gotten a

sense that his love of both Jan andn Ti Jean is sincere.

 

it would be my wish that whoever manages the estate do it with knowledge, love

and proper care.  and in order to be sure that that person would continue the

job in that vein, i'd hope s/he would be paid enough to be comfortable, so

s/he wouldn't quit the job because it's too cumbersome or consuming too much

time away from an income-producing joband family, if there is one.  why does

it matter who gets the $$$, so long as the estate is managed skillfully,

properly, lovingly and honestly?

 

ciao,

sherri

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Richard Wallner

Sent:   Monday, October 20, 1997 1:23 PM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck

 

On Mon, 20 Oct 1997, Sherri wrote:

 

> Richard, while that's noble, Gerry or anyone else does deserve something for

> the huge amount of work this can entail.  unless the executor is someone who

> is independently wealthy, s/he couldn't work a second job in order to put

food

> on the table.

 

Nicosia has doubtless made plenty of money from "Memory Babe" and his

other writing endeavors.  When you become an executor of a "friend's"

estate, you should want to do so out of love, not money.

 

Would Nicosia have accepted the job if the cut was 5% or 2%.  Where does

personal interest end and financial interest begin?  Everyone involved in

this is hip deep in greed of one form or another.

 

Jack Kerouac died broke and all these people want is to make money off of

him....very sad.

 

RJW

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 13:54:51 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      [Fwd: Estate Battle]

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Bill Gargan wrote:

>

> The anniversary of Jack Kerouac's death will be upon us in a couple of

> days.  (it is now here)  I have asked both Gerry Nicosia and Paul Maher to

 drop discussion

> of this topic on the Beat-l list.  In honor of Kerouac's gentleness and

> compassion, I call for everyone on the list to declare a moratorium on

> this topic.  (snip)

 

 This issue will be settled in the courts.   Anyone

> wishing to discuss the matter further should do so via private email.

 

We haven't learned anything this time that wasn't gone over in more

detail and with even greater nastiness last April.

To honor  Jack, can we have a hiatus, a cooling off period, a break?

 

In respect for Bill Gargan, also, who created this list that we all

love. In a sense we are all guests in Bill's house here.  He is a

tolerant host.  But probably not infinitly patient. This was posted a

day ago and everyone is still going strong.

 

js

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 17:18:08 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Czarnecki <peent@SERVTECH.COM>

Subject:      Golden Eternity

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>Nicosia has doubtless made plenty of money from "Memory Babe" and his

>other writing endeavors.  When you become an executor of a "friend's"

>estate, you should want to do so out of love, not money.

>

>Would Nicosia have accepted the job if the cut was 5% or 2%.  Where does

>personal interest end and financial interest begin?  Everyone involved in

>this is hip deep in greed of one form or another.

>

>Jack Kerouac died broke and all these people want is to make money off of

>him....very sad.

>

>RJW

 

I doubt that "all these people want is to make money off of him."

 

There are real issues being debated in this estate battle. Maybe debated is

the wrong word, but I certainly think that a fair amount of real info comes

through beyond all the personal shit being thrown.

 

Why do we always reduce peoples' motives to the almighty dollar? How can we

presume to say what a "friend" should do? How do we know that someone "has

doubtless made plenty of money from "Memory Babe" and his other writing

endeavors." Why are so many people so judgemental of others?

 

28 years ago today I was debating whether I should stay in college or not.

Jack lay on his death bed. I stayed in school and 2 1/2 years later quit to

go on the road. Maybe 5 years later I finally read Kerouac. Now,at 46, my

life is so much different than what it might have been like had I not gone

on the road, traveled a different path had not read Han Shan, T'ao Ch'ien,

Jack Kerouac, Lew Welch, Gary Snyder. They all point the way to other

existences than what is expected

of us in the normal course of late 20th century America.

 

I'll flip another tab off the Genny Cream Ale and sit back to read a little

of the "Scripture of the Golden Eternity" by Jack:

 

"Up in heaven you wont remember all these tricks of yours. You wont even

sigh "Why?" Whether as atomic dust or as great cities, what's the

difference in all this stuff? A tree is still only a rootdrinker. The

puma's twisted face continues to look at the blue sky with sightless eyes.

Ah sweet divine and indescribable and verdurous paradise planted in

mid-air! Caitanya, it's only consciousness. Not with thoughts of your mind,

but in the believing sweetness of your heart, you snap the link and open

the golden door and disappear into the bright room, the everlasting

ecstasy, eternal Now. Soldier, follow me! - there never was a war. Arjuna,

don't fight! - why fight over nothing? Bless and sit down."

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 17:26:16 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck

In-Reply-To:  <UPMAIL14.199710202038370803@classic.msn.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Sherri, this executorship wouldnt be a fulltime job.  It is not like

court cases and book deals pop up all the time.  Why couldnt Gerry

establish a scholarship fund with his 10% cut, something in his or Jan's

name, or in Jack's memory.  Have Jan's estate forward any Nicosia checks

into this fund.

 

He'd still get the tax writeoff.  It would be a noble thing to do.

 

RJW

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 14:31:27 PDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Re: a feeble attempt to honor Jack

Content-Type: text/plain

 

Hello Sherri

 

A feeble song? I know the answer. You feel humble today. All the more

reaching its destination, our hearts. The sweet sadness of Jack's life

and yearnings keeps whispering to us in your words today.

 

Love

leon

 

 

>Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 20:29:36 UT

>Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

>From: Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

>Subject:      a feeble attempt to honor Jack

>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

>

>OCTOBER 20, 1997

>(Supplication to the Soul of Jack Kerouac)

>

>where is Jack's

>ghost today?

>hope it's

>sitting beside me

>reminding me

>it doesn't have to be

>this way.

>

>sing to me Jack

>little Boddhi of the western world

>sing me back

>to the America

>that is a dream,

>to the soul

>in the steam      stream

>                gears       piers               mountains

>        moons                   Junes   tunes

>of a time that maybe never was

>and yet ever will be

>

>then come sit like a lotus

>with me

>in sweet   sorrowful     tragic         infinite

>                                                        compassion

>

>sherri sarantakis

>10/20/97

>.-

>

 

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 17:39:56 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Subject:      Re: Letters of WSB, 1945-1956

In-Reply-To:  <19971020.150444.9094.0.kokupokit@juno.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Mon, 20 Oct 1997, Bob Lewis wrote:

 

> group-

> really diggin a book i just got- the letters of wsb, 1945-1956. gives

> great insight to his beliefs and thoughts of america, junk, etc. in a

> series of letters to allen and jack, he talks about the writing of junky,

> and all the editing he put into it. i think the reason he was big on the

> cut and paste thing is because he made so many refinements that he just

> ended up losing half the book.

> interesting stuff in this here book. highly recommended for those who

> haven't seen it, and would like to discuss with those who have.

 

bob (and anyone else), i'd love to hear your thoughts on this book. i just

bought it this weekend, haven't yet looked at it past the initial

skim-through at the bookstore but it looks like there's a lot of good stuff

inside. am especially interested in how he came to refining his work,

tracing the path of his writing in this trail of letters and the thoughts he

shared w/ allen and jack along the way.

 

attaching myself to an expedition, in a somewhat vague capacity, to be

sure--

 

m

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 14:45:56 PDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Keith Medline <mrsparty@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Re: politics

Content-Type: text/plain

 

Ah, indeed you need to rethink this statement.  In America Politician

has become sunonomous with evil.  We distrust our ministers.  Read the

book by James Morone called "The Democratic Wish"  It is more likely

that the American People choose the wrong people to give them reform.

i.e= Jackson

Okay enough about that.  Political statements are the driving force in

most literature of merit.  Please do not condemn politicians, or the

people that elect them, more likely retract your statement and accept

the political system in American is flawed.  Inherently it cannot work.

Our federalist constitution ensures this.  We gain protection from

radical ideas and sweeping reform at the cost of a gridlocked

governmental institution.  Checks and balances are the true culprits you

need to address not the pawns(politicians...)

Thank you

keith

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 17:54:45 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      October 20/21, 1997

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Tomorrow is my 44th birthday.  It is also the anniversary of the date

Jack was declared dead.  It is hard to believe I was 16 then.  When I

was in San Francisco I went into the Catholic Cathedral next to Jackson

Park (?) off Grant Ave.  Gerry told me it was the Church that Jack took

Ma Mere to mass when she was in San Francisco.  I felt a strong presence

there and lite a candle for Jack, Ma Mere, Neal and Allen.

 

Today, I lift my heart up to the universal light in warm thoughts of

these souls and of the sad death of Jack Kerouac.  May we all learn from

the knowledge he passed to us and from the mistakes he made.

 

This light touch,

Prophet, voyeur,

Follower, rememberer.

This hollow echo

Of alcohol.

This special honored

Place within.

This knowledge imparted,

Accepted as grace.

Amen, amen,

For the soul of our brother Jack.

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 14:47:07 PDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Re: faux pas, n'est pas?

Content-Type: text/plain

 

>Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 16:18:10 +0000

 oh leon i am

>in such high and mischevous spirits today!

 

Contagious across the continent

 

i think i already wrote you

>about my growing train stash and my whiriling about.

 

Not the whiriling yet.

 

 i'm unpacked vacuumed

 

>shrunk lawyered poeted,

 

 and many other things.

 

What a dramaturg you are. Didn't you once say that I am teasing you

sometimes. This time who is doing the teasing?  Shrunk, lawyered and

poeted and what?

 

>oh yeh: i got john berryman out of library i want to be able to read

and

>understand his dream songs.

 

I see, libraried don't make it. Not quite yet demystified. Some reading

to do. Hey that's what I better get back to.

 

bye!

>love and hugs

>us!

 

Now you are byed and loved and hugged again

>

leon

 

>Leon Tabory wrote:

>

>> You did get my overwhelmed into speechlessness review? If not let me

>> know and I will dig it oufrom my treasured archives.

>>

>> Admiring fan with love

>>

>> leon

>>

>> >Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 15:30:20 +0000

>> >Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

>> >From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

>> >Subject:      faux pas, n'est pas?

>> >To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

>> >

>> >> did i hallucinate or did i not send a 'howl with whine chaser' to

the

>> >list?

>> >> it's really weird feeling like you can hear a pin drop after

farting

>> >at the

>> >> crowned head'o'states banquet table for the queen of xavier.

>> >> duh?

>> >> mc

>> >>

>> >.-

>> >

>>

>> ______________________________________________________

>> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

>.-

>

 

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 18:19:11 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      dylan and jack

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

after other readings, discs, i have on dylan's time out of mind. what an

outtasight was to gentle me down. sorry for timewarp language but it

takes me back to the gentle hopeful days of that era. continutity

counts.

bless you jack

ddylan sings for you, too.

salut

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 15:28:38 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: The Beat-L Salary arbitration counsel

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Richard Wallner wrote:

>

 . . . this executorship wouldn't be a fulltime job.

 

Guys, Guys,

 

Who the hell are we to decide how much of a job this is and how much it

should pay?  Personally, I hope whoever winds up with the task does a

good job and makes good money.  Who elected any of us here to decide

where to put the money?  I certainly don't want a Commisar of Salaries

decided what I should be allowed to make.  Richard, who decides what you

are allowed to earn?  Given your objection to earning money I would

assume that it is a trust fund or an allowance.  If you had a family to

feed, bills to pay, etc, you might not regard some sort of decent

remuneration as a bad thing.  Gerry's compensation (in the event he gets

any) is absolutely none of my business or yours.

 

J Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 22:22:01 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck

 

i'm sorry Richard, i do think it would be close to a full time job - at least

for awhile.  however, i do sympathise with the nobility you call for...  i

just don't know how possible it is for anyone to do such a thing unless s/he

has a lot of $$$ at her/his disposal....  and i'd hate to see a good executor

quit due to lack of funds or time...

 

ciao,

sherri

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Richard Wallner

Sent:   Monday, October 20, 1997 2:26 PM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Re: Estate Battle, John Hasbrouck

 

Sherri, this executorship wouldnt be a fulltime job.  It is not like

court cases and book deals pop up all the time.  Why couldnt Gerry

establish a scholarship fund with his 10% cut, something in his or Jan's

name, or in Jack's memory.  Have Jan's estate forward any Nicosia checks

into this fund.

 

He'd still get the tax writeoff.  It would be a noble thing to do.

 

RJW

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 22:15:00 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Golden Eternity

 

thanks, Michael, for the beautiful quote.  it's from a work i don't know, so

i'll be looking for it...

 

ciao,

sherri

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Michael Czarnecki

Sent:   Monday, October 20, 1997 2:18 PM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Golden Eternity

 

>Nicosia has doubtless made plenty of money from "Memory Babe" and his

>other writing endeavors.  When you become an executor of a "friend's"

>estate, you should want to do so out of love, not money.

>

>Would Nicosia have accepted the job if the cut was 5% or 2%.  Where does

>personal interest end and financial interest begin?  Everyone involved in

>this is hip deep in greed of one form or another.

>

>Jack Kerouac died broke and all these people want is to make money off of

>him....very sad.

>

>RJW

 

I doubt that "all these people want is to make money off of him."

 

There are real issues being debated in this estate battle. Maybe debated is

the wrong word, but I certainly think that a fair amount of real info comes

through beyond all the personal shit being thrown.

 

Why do we always reduce peoples' motives to the almighty dollar? How can we

presume to say what a "friend" should do? How do we know that someone "has

doubtless made plenty of money from "Memory Babe" and his other writing

endeavors." Why are so many people so judgemental of others?

 

28 years ago today I was debating whether I should stay in college or not.

Jack lay on his death bed. I stayed in school and 2 1/2 years later quit to

go on the road. Maybe 5 years later I finally read Kerouac. Now,at 46, my

life is so much different than what it might have been like had I not gone

on the road, traveled a different path had not read Han Shan, T'ao Ch'ien,

Jack Kerouac, Lew Welch, Gary Snyder. They all point the way to other

existences than what is expected

of us in the normal course of late 20th century America.

 

I'll flip another tab off the Genny Cream Ale and sit back to read a little

of the "Scripture of the Golden Eternity" by Jack:

 

"Up in heaven you wont remember all these tricks of yours. You wont even

sigh "Why?" Whether as atomic dust or as great cities, what's the

difference in all this stuff? A tree is still only a rootdrinker. The

puma's twisted face continues to look at the blue sky with sightless eyes.

Ah sweet divine and indescribable and verdurous paradise planted in

mid-air! Caitanya, it's only consciousness. Not with thoughts of your mind,

but in the believing sweetness of your heart, you snap the link and open

the golden door and disappear into the bright room, the everlasting

ecstasy, eternal Now. Soldier, follow me! - there never was a war. Arjuna,

don't fight! - why fight over nothing? Bless and sit down."

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 22:23:06 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      favorite JK poem

 

my favorite Kerouac poem to date:

 

The Moon

 

The moon her magic be, big sad face

of infinity  An illuminated clay ball

Manifesting many gentlemanly remarks

 

She kicks a star, clouds foregather

In Scimitar shape, to round her

Cadle out, upsidedown any old time

 

You can also let the moon foolyou

With imaginary orange-balls

of blazing imaginary light in fright

 

As eyeballs, hurt and foregathered,

Wink to the wince of the seeing

Of a little sprightly otay

 

Which projects spikes of light

Out the round smooth blue balloon

Ball full of mountains and moons

 

Deep as the ocean, high as the moon,

low as the lowliest river lagoon

Fish in the Tar and pull in the Spar

 

Billy de Budd and Hanshan Emperor

And all wall moongazers since

Daniel Machree, Yeats see

 

Gaze at the moon ocean marking

the face ----

                                        In some cases

                                        The moon is you

 

                                        In any case

                                        The moon

 

thanks for the beauty, Ti Jean.  hope yr boppin' around the stars

 

ciao, sherri

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 22:30:58 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: dylan and jack

 

marie - so GLAD to have you back!!!  haven't had a chance to read your "howl"

post - it's at home.  but the tenderness and fun in this post, brought a tear

to my eye.

 

hope you had a GREAT trip!!!

 

ciao,

sherri

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Marie Countryman

Sent:   Monday, October 20, 1997 11:19 AM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        dylan and jack

 

after other readings, discs, i have on dylan's time out of mind. what an

outtasight was to gentle me down. sorry for timewarp language but it

takes me back to the gentle hopeful days of that era. continutity

counts.

bless you jack

ddylan sings for you, too.

salut

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 16:09:09 PDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Keith Medline <mrsparty@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      A New SUBJECT???(not another Estate debate)

Content-Type: text/plain

 

Okay here it is.

                    Information Laid To Waste

 

     There is this notion that Beat literature should not be taught in

the schools.  Even at the University level i find it hard to take

classes on the subject.  In the Norton Anthology(abridged) there is only

one reference to the beat generation...."Howl" by Ginser.  While this is

an important piece, would not America be a better selection from Ginser?

Where is Kerouac, where is Lew, and Burroughs?  These men were certainly

influencial?  Was Howl chosen because it seems begnign?  I am unsure of

this.  Perhaps people still cannot accept that the beat movement forced

us to all think as a society.  Look at our vocabulary. The common

colloqialisms that we use are derived a lot from the speech of popular

beat phrases.  Is this inforamtion laid to waste.  Will the next

generation have to work even harder than I to discover this important

American movement?  Jazz, Poetry, and art?  A rennaisance in America,

unnoticed because of the times.  It seems like such a travesty.

Keith

 

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Date:         Mon, 20 Oct 1997 18:23:14 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Dana Lee Kober <dana@SPIDERLINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: politics

In-Reply-To:  <19971020214556.9059.qmail@hotmail.com>

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I was referring rather to the philosophical viewpoint of Nietzsche and

Foucault.  "Will to Power" -- will to politics.  Follow me?

 

Dana

 

On Mon, 20 Oct 1997, Keith Medline wrote:

 

> Ah, indeed you need to rethink this statement.  In America Politician

> has become sunonomous with evil.  We distrust our ministers.  Read the

> book by James Morone called "The Democratic Wish"  It is more likely

> that the American People choose the wrong people to give them reform.

> i.e= Jackson

> Okay enough about that.  Political statements are the driving force in

> most literature of merit.  Please do not condemn politicians, or the

> people that elect them, more likely retract your statement and accept

> the political system in American is flawed.  Inherently it cannot work.

> Our federalist constitution ensures this.  We gain protection from

> radical ideas and sweeping reform at the cost of a gridlocked

> governmental institution.  Checks and balances are the true culprits you

> need to address not the pawns(politicians...)

> Thank you

> keith

>

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