=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 9 Jan 1998 20:15:25 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: sliced writings ("Ciao, Alice")

In-Reply-To:  <3.0.1.32.19980109185526.006a8808@pop.gpnet.it>

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At 06:55 PM 1/9/98 +0100, you wrote:

>(...)

>        Alice si mise in testa non soltanto di vivere

>ma di pubblicare quegli inediti senza toccare la collezione

>dei quadri. Uso' tutto il denaro che le restava-non molto,

>dopo la malattia di Gertrude-e accetto' di pubblicare su

>riviste di grande tiratura articoli di cucina, a condizione

>che le venissero retribuiti con generosita'. Gli articoli

>ebbero un tale successo che un editore la invito' a comporre

>un vero e proprio volume di ricette; e Alice lo scrisse un

>po' sotto forma di pettegolezzo, facendosi mandare da tutti

>gli amici le loro ricette preferite.

>        Tremo al pensiero delle ricette che mi convinse a mandarle

>e che naturalmente mi feci dalla ragazza tuttofare che mi nutriva

>in quegli anni; ma dalle mie innocue cotolette alla pizzaiola

>o pesto alla genovese o gnocchi alla romana almeno non le

>derivarono guai. Invece Brion Gysin (che piu' tardi sarebbe

>diventato noto attraverso il sodalizio con William Burroughs

>e i loro cut-ups), o forse Paul Bowles (protagonista in seguito

>di un colossale revival grazie alla riduzione cinematografica

>che Bernardo Bertolucci fece del suo The Sheltering Sky) le

>mando' da Tangeri la ricetta di una crema all'hashish e Alice

>la pubblico' nel testo integrale, in cui veniva consigliata come

>particolarmente adatta a un pomeriggio di pioggia e si precisava,

>nella descrizione degli ingredienti, che si poteva facilmente

>coltivare in un vasetto sul davanzale della cucina, come si

>fa nei paesi meridionali con il basilico, la menta o le altre

>erbe aromatiche.

>        Quando il libro usci', la campagna di Allen Ginsberg per

>la legalizzazione della marijuana non era ancora incominciata.

>Il settimanale "Time" pubblico' una recensione anticipata

>segnalando la ricetta e affermando che non c'era da stupirsi

>se Gertrude Stein scriveva in quel modo incomprensibile,

>considerando il cibo che le somministrava Alice. Quando lesse

>l'articolo, Gysin le telefono' da Tangeri, offrendosi di

>modificare il testo; ma ormai era troppo tardi. L'editore

>americano parlo' con il procuratore generale, e nonostante ne

>ricevesse la precisazione della colpevolezza di chi compra, vende

>o usa droghe ma l'innocenza di chi ne scrive, preferi' rifare

>l'ultima parte del libro (nonostante fosse gia' rilegato)

>sopprimendo la ricetta pericolosa. Alice si trovo', a settantotto

>anni, al centro di uno scandalo forse piu' vistoso del

>necessario, in un'atmosfera da Grande Inquisizione e da Rogo delle

>streghe; e il settimanale "Time" pubblico' solo poche righe

>della sua lettera di spiegazione.

>        Il fatto che i libro continuasse a circolare in Inghilterra

>non evito' l'insuccesso economico del volume: il mercato che

>avrebbe assorbito quelle ricette, con o senza marijuana, procurando

>ad Alice un lieve sollievo economico, non era certo quello inglese.

>Quando le chiesi che cosa mai le fosse venuto in mente, mi

>rispose con aria offesa di non aver mai saputo, prima che si

>facesse tutto quel chiasso, che la cannabis sativa e' la marijuana,

>e di aver inserito la ricetta soltanto perche' le sembrava divertente.

>(...)

>F.P. 1965.

>

>Gaul Est Dividio in Partes Tres!

 

Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 9 Jan 1998 19:35:37 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeff Taylor <taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Burroughs, Wittgenstein

In-Reply-To:  <34B6BC70.2EAF@sunflower.com>

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

um, we were talking about Wittgenstein's estate....no intention to

suggest any problems with WSB's

 

On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, Patricia Elliott wrote:

 

> to be blunt i consider it a little creepy to declare problems with

> williams estate and publishing before there is any.  I feel that if any

[...]

> william died and dealt with by the detail efficient james.  but if one

> wanted to pretend problems then might be better to backchannel and

> hint.

>

> patricia

>

> Michael R. Brown wrote:

> >

> > On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Jeff Taylor wrote:

> >

> > > (& BTW, there's still a lot of W's writings not yet published....yet

> > > another "estate" controversy)

> >

> > And presumably another archive that is going to be allowed to be reclused

> > from open study, to languish and deteriorate.  :/

 

*******

Jeff Taylor

taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

*******

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 9 Jan 1998 19:42:52 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "V.J. Eaton" <vj@PRIMENET.COM>

Subject:      Re: Ginsberg in America

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Old. Bad. Buy it anyway and read it.

 

>Does anyone out there know anything about this book?  Schtick?  Good/bad?

It seems to

>be just published . . .

 

Did it have a title page?

_____________________

My opinions and those of my employer are usually different,

for which my mother apologizes.

 

V.J. Eaton

Tempe, AZ

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 9 Jan 1998 18:58:51 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         marie countyman <mcountyman@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Re: my 15 minutes

Content-Type: text/plain

 

well, it surebe nice to get a gig in frisco at all, not the least to

have the wonderful friends in the crowd -and, gasp!) more listeners than

poets!

had a blast.

QR Hand is an amazing man

marie

 

>From owner-beat-l@cunyvm.cuny.edu Fri Jan  9 03:09:07 1998

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>          1998 05:17:17 -0600 (CST)

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>Message-ID:  <34B6043F.163@midusa.net>

>Date:         Fri, 9 Jan 1998 05:04:31 -0600

>Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

>Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

>From: David Bruce Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>

>Subject:      Re: my 15 minutes

>Comments: To: Gibson <rgibson@prairienet.org>

>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

>

>marie countyman wrote:

>>

>> hey everyone: it was a great evening, with local and beloved it seems

to

>> many (including me) QR Hand read some of his work and it was great.

my

>> reading  went well: i was geared up for the newest version of

'insomnia

>> quartet' and that read quite well. the audience certainly did not

hurt,

>> as it included leon, without whom it would not have happened at all,

and

>> by sherri and james, who i have come to know and like very much. and

QR

>> as well.

>> it's tired and my mind is fried.

>> more to come

>> thanks for all comments, good thoughts, and cheerleading! it all

helped.

>> mc

>>

>> ______________________________________________________

>> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

>

>More seriously MARIE.  It is wonderful in my view for someone named

>Country Man named MARIE to get a GREAT GIG.  As we all sing sometimes

in

>the Elevators from GOODNIGHT IRENE, "Sometimes I LIVE IN THE CUNT-TREE

>SOMETIMES I LIVE IN TOWN SOMETIMES I GET A GREAT NOTION TO JUMP IN a

>lake.

>

>d

>

 

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 9 Jan 1998 19:13:59 +0000

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: uh, Jim Harrison?

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Gene,

 

Nice to see you mention Harrison, who is a favorite of mine, tho not really

withing the purvue of this list.  I don't really know his poetry, I must

 confess,

but his novellas are some of the best current prose, in my view.  Dalva, of the

longer things, is a big one for me.

 

James Stauffer

 

GTL1951 wrote:

 

> Marie

>          I damn sure dont want to take away from your 15 mins. i think its

> great!Now- about a month back I made a statement on the list that I felt that

> Pound, Eliot, and Ginsberg were the greatest American Poets. I would have

> included Rilke, light and fire that he was, cept he wasnt American! Anyways-

> fraid I left out one of the greatest living American Poets- Jim Harrison.

>         I have yet to see mention of him on the List, and I dont think you can

> a more Beat, Enlightened, and Intelligent Poet going today. Dont tell me about

> those same ol samo acedemics guys and dolls. Boring! And dont let the Brad

> Pitt hoopla over Legend of the Fall bring you down- Harrison is great!

>         Read the guy- he deserves our support.

>                                                                            Gen

> e

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:09:43 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         TKQ <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      The Kerouac Quarterly- Page updated today!

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Today I changed the page around a little bit per the costant e-mail I get

for creative suggestions. I do appreciate them all.There are new links to

great pages on Burroughs, Ginsberg, John Clellon Holmes, and of course...

    the all new Kerouac Quarterly Chat Room! Go there anytime!

               Have a nice weekend all and look for some new Kerouac

Quarterly pages very shortly...Paul of TKQ.

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 9 Jan 1998 20:09:27 +0000

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Lew Welch

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Nancy,

 

I make tons of typo's, God knows, and I love the Lew quote, but it's "Welch" not

"Whelch"

 

James

 

Nancy B Brodsky wrote:

 

> >

> > "Those who can't find anything to live for

> >  always invent something to die for.

> >

> >  Then they want the rest of us to

> >  die for it, too."

> >

> >                 - Lew Whelch

> >

>

> The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

> Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:52:18 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Subject:      Synchronicity

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In a moment of coincidence, I picked up Bob Dylan by Anthony Scudato

(1973) and found this on page 66:

 

"Pete Seeger would come, with his wife Toshi, and their children.  Peter

La Farge (son of Oliver La Farge, who won the 1930 Pulitzer Prize in

literature for Laughing Boy, his novel about hte Navajos) part-Indian,

cowboy, folksinger, author of The Ballad of Ira Hayes, weaver of tall

tales.  Cisco Houston, Jack Elliott and dozens more."

 

LaFarge is also mentioned on pages 78, 120, 133, 137, and 283.

 

On page 283 it says,

 

"While Bob was in Australia hte previous April Richard Farina had been

killed in a motorcycle accident.  Paul Clayton committed suicide the

April before Dylan's accident, jumping out of a window after a three-day

LSD trip.  Peter La Farge had committed suicide.   Death lurked all

around."

 

 

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:40:02 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: uh, Jim Harrison?

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.SOL.3.95.980109144003.24778C-100000@comp>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>I just wanted to second the vote for Jim Harrison.  He's amazingly good in

>any form, poetry/short fiction/novels.  He even met Jack Kerouac once.

>

>Don Lee

>Fayetteville, Ark.

>

>"I cannot live without books."

>                        --Thomas Jefferson

 

It was Harrison's book "Farmer" that started the exodus of city folk to the

country--particularly teachers.

 

j grant

 

 

                    HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES

                             Details  on-line at

                                 http://www.bookzen.com

                      625,506 Visitors  07-01-96 to 11-28-97

 

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:34:13 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         David Bruce Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: THE BALLAD OF IRA HAYES

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M. Cakebread wrote:

>

> At 01:35 AM 1/9/98 -0600, David Rhaesa wrote:

>

> >does anybody know WHO allegedly wrote it?

>

> P. LaFarge wrote it, everyone sings it. . .

>

> Townes Van Zandt's version is one of my fave's.

> Dylan's is ok, I guess.  Motley Crue's version

> is by far the best!!

>

> Motorcyle Mike

 

i prefer MY version under the PEN-NAME ROBERT PIRSIG.

 

DR

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:35:12 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         David Bruce Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: my 15 minutes

Comments: cc: "lewenthompson@midkan.com" <lewenthompson@midkan.com>

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M. Cakebread wrote:

>

> At 03:47 AM 1/9/98 -0600, David Rhaesa wrote:

>

> >I heard GEORGE WILL is gonna PAN U'R PERFORMANCE

> >BIG TIME!!!!!!

> >

> >citizen caine

>

> ROSEBUD!?!?!?!?!

 

Raisins

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:05:47 +0000

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: THE BALLAD OF IRA HAYES

MIME-Version: 1.0

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> Ok David,

 

Most the questions are answered.  I am less hip than some of the guys, I

only remember the Johnny Cash and Bob Dylan versions.

 

We know know that Oliver La Farge's son wrote it--

 

But where do you get the Eugene, Ore info--curious about my old town's

connection.  What is the story.  You are exceedingly cryptic these days.

Speaking only in koans after your satori.

 

James Stauffer

 

>

>

> David Bruce Rhaesa wrote:

>

> > it has a beat

> >

> > does anybody know the lyrics?

> > does anybody know WHO allegedly wrote it?

> > does anybody know WHICH BEAT WRITER ACTUALLY WROTE IT?

> > is it true it was written in Mary's Vineyard outside EUGENE OREGON?

> >

> > trivia questions?

> >

> > pandur

>

 

 

 

--------------F8AAEB5A16788135A79641B9

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<HTML>

&nbsp;

<BR>&nbsp;

<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>Ok David,</BLOCKQUOTE>

Most the questions are answered.&nbsp; I am less hip than some of the guys,

I only remember the Johnny Cash and Bob Dylan versions.

 

<P>We know know that Oliver La Farge's son wrote it--

 

<P>But where do you get the Eugene, Ore info--curious about my old town's

connection.&nbsp; What is the story.&nbsp; You are exceedingly cryptic

these days.&nbsp; Speaking only in koans after your satori.

 

<P>James Stauffer

<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;

 

<P>David Bruce Rhaesa wrote:

 

<P>> it has a beat

<BR>>

<BR>> does anybody know the lyrics?

<BR>> does anybody know WHO allegedly wrote it?

<BR>> does anybody know WHICH BEAT WRITER ACTUALLY WROTE IT?

<BR>> is it true it was written in Mary's Vineyard outside EUGENE OREGON?

<BR>>

<BR>> trivia questions?

<BR>>

<BR>> pandur

<BR><A HREF="http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw"></A>&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE>

&nbsp;</HTML>

 

--------------F8AAEB5A16788135A79641B9--

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 10 Jan 1998 03:29:48 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: my 15 minutes

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 12:35 AM 1/10/98 -0600, David Rhaesa wrote:

 

>M. Cakebread wrote:

>> ROSEBUD!?!?!?!?!

>

>Raisins

 

Damn, I thought I'd found u. . .

 

Signing off from RKO Radio,

CFK

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 10 Jan 1998 02:28:23 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeff Taylor <taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>

Subject:      WSB mentioned on Leno

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Thursday night Robin Williams was on the Tonight Show. Somehow Gus Van

Sant's name was mentioned, and RW described GVS as like "a cross

between Mr Rogers and William Burroughs." This seemed to elicit no

reaction, so RW mumbled something like, "no one know knows what I'm

talking about, do they".

 

*******

Jeff Taylor

taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

*******

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 10 Jan 1998 07:45:59 +0000

Reply-To:     tkc@zipcon.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>

Organization: art language wholsale retail

Subject:      Re: This body Universe, a sort of BeatZen reply

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Sean Young wrote:

>

>      We are the mirror as well as the face in it. We are tasting the taste

>      this moment of eternity. We are Pain and what cures pain, both.

>      We are the jar and the sweet cold water that pours.

>      - Rumi

>

>      No body, No universe (A la heart sutra). No here, no there.

>      Only both. No either/or. We are the stuff that the universe is made

>      of. A singularity contains aspects of the whole. Universe is

>      perpetuated through body. Things are void of preconceptions. Certain

>      distinctions are only forms dancing before our eyes. there is

>      something beyond the forms. we speak as if absolute is before us. all

>      there is, is endless wonder. as Corso says, "Never find Forever."

>

>      -off the cuff musings after reading BeatZen emails and trying to stay

>      grounded during manic work day.

>

>      Hope you all are well.

>      Peace be upon you.

>

>      Sean D. Young

 

despite the assurances of the sutras, no taste, no illusion of taste, no

thought, no illusion of thought, we are still individual egos, even now

click clacking keyboards before the rise of the sun and connected thru

wires and electric flux.

 

despite teachers' assurance of no body no individual self, our

individual bodies still exist in the individual mind of even tulkus, who

abstract us as sources of income and fuck vessels, especially after a

few beers

 

steven segall now a tulku. imagine. steven segall born without karma,

come selflessly into world to save us lessers.

 

gosh

 

free tibet

 

hahaha

 

a dead universe with no god, only us and our neurotic preceptions, and

no way out, seven lifetimes at best, and most of us stuck in the endless

cycle os samsara, maya and karma, or a universe created by a loving god,

who despite our history of turning away and falling away still leaves

open the door of salvation, free to all who accept.  which is more

cynical, more hopeless?

 

tkc

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:56:42 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: sliced writings ("Ciao, Alice")

In-Reply-To:  <3.0.5.16.19980109191003.24a7bc34@mail.wi.centuryinter.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Mike Rice writes:

>>Gaul Est Dividio in Partes Tres!

 

Mike, the above line was cracking me up!

 

then...

 

During 1965 Alice B. Toklas was in financial difficulties and

planed to write a cookery book. she aimed to collect

recipes from her friends. Brion Gysin kidding send to her

the Hashish Fudge recipe. Afterwards the TIME magazine,

was shocked by the recipe, stressed the Gertrude Stein's

writings were so incomprehensible cuz she has eaten the

food cooked by Alice.

 

* A Rose is a rose Rose is a rose is a rose *

 

saluti to all,

the beetle of venice.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 10 Jan 1998 08:27:39 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Michael R. Brown" <foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>

Subject:      Re: WSB mentioned on Leno

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.PMDF.3.95.980110022218.570806468A-100000@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Jeff Taylor wrote:

 

> Thursday night Robin Williams was on the Tonight Show. Somehow Gus Van

> Sant's name was mentioned, and RW described GVS as like "a cross

> between Mr Rogers and William Burroughs." This seemed to elicit no

> reaction, so RW mumbled something like, "no one know knows what I'm

> talking about, do they".

 

Ahhhh, but they will one day ... :)

 

 

 

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

  Michael R. Brown                        foosi@global.california.com

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

 

 

                Find out the laws then do what you will.

                                - Susannah Thompson

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 10 Jan 1998 08:33:16 +0000

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: This body Universe, a sort of BeatZen reply

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Tom--

 

Thanks for putting it so well.  And so many JK fans keep bemoaning the fact that

he kept is affection for the old mother church.  If he had only lived long

enough to see Siegal buy his tulka-hood--I am sure he would have changed his

mind.

 

James Stauffer

 

Tom Christopher wrote:

 

> despite the assurances of the sutras, no taste, no illusion of taste, no

> thought, no illusion of thought, we are still individual egos, even now

> click clacking keyboards before the rise of the sun and connected thru

> wires and electric flux.

>

> despite teachers' assurance of no body no individual self, our

> individual bodies still exist in the individual mind of even tulkus, who

> abstract us as sources of income and fuck vessels, especially after a

> few beers

>

> steven segall now a tulku. imagine. steven segall born without karma,

> come selflessly into world to save us lessers.

>

> gosh

>

> free tibet

>

> hahaha

>

> a dead universe with no god, only us and our neurotic preceptions, and

> no way out, seven lifetimes at best, and most of us stuck in the endless

> cycle os samsara, maya and karma, or a universe created by a loving god,

> who despite our history of turning away and falling away still leaves

> open the door of salvation, free to all who accept.  which is more

> cynical, more hopeless?

>

> tkc

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 10 Jan 1998 17:26:40 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: This body Universe, a sort of BeatZen reply

In-Reply-To:  <34B7272E.4D45@zipcon.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Tom Christopher wrote:

>a dead universe with no god, only us and our neurotic preceptions, and

 

at the moment i missed the bus cuz surprised for a great orange moon

in a sky going to the evening

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 10 Jan 1998 08:37:22 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Michael R. Brown" <foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>

Subject:      Re: sliced writings ("Ciao, Alice")

In-Reply-To:  <3.0.1.32.19980110165642.006b0484@pop.gpnet.it>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:

 

> the beetle of venice.

 

Would that be an affine animal to that of the opera by Nietzsche's

friend, Peter Gast: _The Lion of Venice_?  :)

 

Salut!

 

 

 

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

  Michael R. Brown                        foosi@global.california.com

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

 

 

                Find out the laws then do what you will.

                                - Susannah Thompson

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:19:47 -0600

Reply-To:     cawilkie@comic.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Cathy Wilkie <cawilkie@COMIC.NET>

Subject:      the parable of the horse  re: SKiing accidents

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>  but we all die.. and i can think of a lot less funny and harsher ways

> to die than running into a tree skiing.

>  i certainly know if i died in a funny way (for instance, dying on a

> luxury cruise, in the middle of a huge ocean...by drowning in the little

> pool on board)i wouldn't mind at all if people got a few minutes of

> perverse pleasure out of laughing...

>  if its one thing i don't like, please do not take offense, is when

> people get too serious when things are supposed to be funny...

>  it may be wrong to luagh at their deaths... but i'm laughing at their

> lives too...

> -julian

 

 

 

Julian and all:

 

a parable for us all:

 

My significant other used to be married to a simple country-type woman,

who really really wanted a horse.  After much discussion, arguments, and

debates on the pros and cons of owning a horse, the ex-wife won out in

the end, and they purchased her a horse.

 

flash: three years later, literally a flash:

 

by this time, they divorced, she kept the horse, and my significant

other and his ex-wife remained friends.  One morning she calls while he

is in the shower, I figured it had to be something relatively important

for her to call that early in the morning.  so I rouse him out of the

shower, he talks with her for five, ten minutes, then hangs up.  He

starts to laugh uncontrollably.  I ask him what it was she had to say

that set him off like this.

 

He says, "Remember the horse which caused much angst between her and I?"

 

I said, "Yeah... and?"

 

He said, "The horse got hit by lightning.   They found it out in the

pasture, charred almost beyond recognition.  Wanna know what the worst

part was?"

 

"Yeah," I answered.

 

He looked at me with a straight face.  "The horse's head exploded when

it got hit by the lightning.  They found it quite a way from the body!"

He started laughing again, slapping his knee.  He found it quite ironic

in the end, that after all the arguments, after all the hair-pulling and

name-calling, it didn't matter in the end because the problem of the

horse had essentially disappeared in one quick strike from the heavens

above.  It just didn't matter, it hadn't really been that important in

the first place.

 

I started laughing then, also, but stopped after a moment when I

realized what it might have felt like to see your charred, beheaded

horse lying out in the pasture.  But then irony won out again, I started

laughing again, but I still felt bad about it.

 

the end.

 

cathy

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:50:58 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         T-BONE INTENTIONS <breithau@KENYON.EDU>

Subject:      Re: sliced writings ("Ciao, Alice")

 

Speaking of Alice Toklas brownies, there was a letter from Hunter Thompson in

the recent 60s exhibit at the Cleveland Rock 'n Roll musuem Hall of Fame.

I forget who the letter was from but they had written Hunter for a favorite

recipe. Hunter wrote back with a very specific recipe for chocolate chip

cookies and hash. Wish I had a copy of that letter. Did anybody else see it?

 

Dave B.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:28:10 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Michael R. Brown" <foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>

Subject:      Re: Wittgenstein?

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.PMDF.3.95.980107203100.570815195C-100000@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Jeff Taylor wrote:

 

> In all my reading of Burroughs, I've never run across anything that

> made me think, "Gee, that sounds just like Wittgenstein." So apart

> from the explicit reference in the intro to Naked Lunch, I don't think

> Burroughs ever had much to say about W.

 

Well, there is that reference to Wittgenstein's pre-recorded-universe

idea in the WSB documentary. Wittgenstein may have been more of an

influence, however, in the idea of language-games. Perhaps Burroughs was a

language-gamester akin to the "trickster guru" Alan Watts wrote about.

 

Michael,

dreaming of coyote, the trickster god

 

 

 

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

  Michael R. Brown                        foosi@global.california.com

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

 

 

                Libertarianism is political bisexuality.

 

                                - M. Brown (libertarian)

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:32:48 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         David Bruce Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: sliced writings ("Ciao, Alice")

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

T-BONE INTENTIONS wrote:

>

> Speaking of Alice Toklas brownies, there was a letter from Hunter Thompson in

> the recent 60s exhibit at the Cleveland Rock 'n Roll musuem Hall of Fame.

> I forget who the letter was from but they had written Hunter for a favorite

> recipe. Hunter wrote back with a very specific recipe for chocolate chip

> cookies and hash. Wish I had a copy of that letter. Did anybody else see it?

>

> Dave B.

 

TBONE was my first bodyguard in ROCKISLAND ILLinois.  It's pretty much

now down to the land of lincoln vs. the land of eisenhower.  I like Ike

and i was born in lincoln Kansas.  Please send a note to my father

 

Rev. James William Rhaesa (Ret)

6909 NW Pleasant View Lane

Parkville MO 64152

or call me directly at

785-7969

 

LOVE

david

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:30:49 -0500

Reply-To:     "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@uwaterloo.ca>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>

Subject:      Re: Burroughs, Wittgenstein

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.PMDF.3.95.980109193126.570826186A-100000@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Actually, Michael R. Brown mentioned Burroughs parenthetically when he

said:

 

"Do we really need to waste precious time of

life in "Jack [or Bill or Allen] woulda WANTED it this way" arguments?"

 

Having seen the forwarded e-mail from James Grauerholz that Diane posted,

I think we can all rest easy that the Burroughs estate is going to be

EXTREMELY well taken care of. I, for one, sleep easy at night knowing it's

in James' capable hands.

 

Neil

 

On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, Jeff Taylor wrote:

 

> um, we were talking about Wittgenstein's estate....no intention to

> suggest any problems with WSB's

>

> On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, Patricia Elliott wrote:

>

> > to be blunt i consider it a little creepy to declare problems with

> > williams estate and publishing before there is any.  I feel that if any

> [...]

> > william died and dealt with by the detail efficient james.  but if one

> > wanted to pretend problems then might be better to backchannel and

> > hint.

> >

> > patricia

> >

> > Michael R. Brown wrote:

> > >

> > > On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Jeff Taylor wrote:

> > >

> > > > (& BTW, there's still a lot of W's writings not yet published....yet

> > > > another "estate" controversy)

> > >

> > > And presumably another archive that is going to be allowed to be reclused

> > > from open study, to languish and deteriorate.  :/

>

> *******

> Jeff Taylor

> taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

> *******

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 10 Jan 1998 18:10:02 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         George <nellie@CCO.NET>

Subject:      Re: alexander supertramp

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 09:48 AM 1/6/98 PST, you wrote:

>Jon Krackaurer (correct spelling?) wrote a book called "Into the Wild"

>about Alexander Supertramp. It is an excellent book, well researched

>with extensive interviews of the many people supertramp touched during

>the two years between "dissappearing" and "reappearing" dead in the

>Alaskan wilderness.

 

 

 

That book was studied in my American Lit. class, we didn't read all of it,

just excerpts, then had to write an essay on if we thought he made the right

decision.  Wasn't Supertramp's real name Chris McCandless?

Janelle

 

 

        "Strange now to think of you, gone without corsets & eyes,"

                                                        --Allen Ginsberg

 

        "So in America when the sun goes down and I sit on the old broken-down

river pier watching the long, long skies over New Jersey and sense all that

raw land  that rolls in one unbelivble huge bulge over to the West Coast,

and all that road going and all thoes people dreaming in the immensity of

it, and in Iowa i know by now the children must be crying in the land where

they let the children cry, and tonight the stars'll be out, and don't you

know God is Pooh Bear?  the evening star must be drooping and shedding her

spakler dims on the prairie, which is just before the coming of compleate

night that blesses the earth, darkens all rivers, cups the peaks and folds

the final shore in, and nobody, nobody knows what's going to happen to

anybody besides the forlorn rags of growing old, I think of Dean Moriarty, I

even think of old Dean Moriarty the father we never found, I think of Dean

Moriarty."                      --Jack Kerouac

 

 

 

*********************************************************************

If you would like to submit an artical, drawing, photograph, poem, song,

story, joke, rant, manifesto, or whatever else you have, to 96 MILES TO

PORTLAND, PLEASE contact me.  If you want to subscribe PLEASE contact me, if

you submitt your issue containing the submission is free.  If you would just

like to get an issue then it's $1. By e-mail it's free but you can't seee

the pretty pictures

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:47:54 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Greg Beaver-Seitz <hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Re: alexander supertramp

Content-Type: text/plain

 

>

>That book was studied in my American Lit. class, we didn't read all of

it,

>just excerpts, then had to write an essay on if we thought he made the

right

>decision.  Wasn't Supertramp's real name Chris McCandless?

>Janelle

>

>

Yes, I believe it was...

I'd suggest reading the whole book.. after all this talk of it I may

have to go and reread it..

Read Junky this weekend.  First entire Burroughs book I have read,

really liked. Moved very quickly and was just so a matter-of-fact way of

relating such a wacked-out lifestyle.

That's all I can say.

 

-Greg

 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Greg Beaver-Seitz

http://members.tripod.com/~Sprayberry

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:28:44 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: WSB mentioned on Leno

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.BSI.3.95.980110082712.720A-100000@global.california.c om>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 08:27 AM 1/10/98 -0800, you wrote:

>On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Jeff Taylor wrote:

>

>> Thursday night Robin Williams was on the Tonight Show. Somehow Gus Van

>> Sant's name was mentioned, and RW described GVS as like "a cross

>> between Mr Rogers and William Burroughs." This seemed to elicit no

>> reaction, so RW mumbled something like, "no one know knows what I'm

>> talking about, do they".

>

>Ahhhh, but they will one day ... :)

>

>Listen, tell me, I don't know what he means either and I have imbibed both

Mr. Rogers and William Burroughs' neighborhood.  What is the not very funny

Williams getting at?

 

Mike Rice

>

>+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

>  Michael R. Brown                        foosi@global.california.com

>+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

>

>

>                Find out the laws then do what you will.

>                                - Susannah Thompson

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 10 Jan 1998 22:59:48 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         David Bruce Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: BRUNO (was Re: Stone on Kerouac

MIME-Version: 1.0

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M. Cakebread wrote:

>

> At 05:05 PM 1/8/98 -0500, Mike Rice wrote:

>

> >It developed that Bettelheim had also lied about

> >his academic credentials and was something of a

> >fraud.  I saw Bettelheim on Dick Cavett years ago

> >talking about the Fairy Tale book.

>

> _The Empty Fortress_  has always been a book I've

> had to read with a "pound" of salt.    The statement,

> "my belief that the precipitating factor in infantile

> autism is the parent's wish that his child should

> not exist (Bettelheim, 1967)" has led me to refer

> to him as "Brutal" Bettelheim.

>

> Mike

THANX

d

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 10 Jan 1998 21:21:48 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Greg Beaver-Seitz <hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Ginsberg etc.

Content-Type: text/plain

 

Hey everyone!

 

Just added a bunch of new pictures and poems to Ginsberg etc.

 

http://members.tripod.com/~Sprayberry

 

Enjoy,

Greg

 

 

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:39:58 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jodie R Gardner <JGardner@DOANE.EDU>

Subject:      Re: another newcomer...

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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My poem went over great!  They actually liked it!  Anyway, the class is still

going well.  Thanks for all the comments and quotes!

 

*jodie*

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:29:57 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         David Bruce Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Ginsberg etc.

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Greg Beaver-Seitz wrote:

>

> Hey everyone!

>

> Just added a bunch of new pictures and poems to Ginsberg etc.

>

> http://members.tripod.com/~Sprayberry

>

> Enjoy,

> Greg

>

> ______________________________________________________

> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

THANX

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:32:50 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         David Bruce Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: another newcomer...

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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Jodie R Gardner wrote:

>

> My poem went over great!  They actually liked it!  Anyway, the class is still

> going well.  Thanks for all the comments and quotes!

>

> *jodie*

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPER DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPR

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:49:52 -0800

Reply-To:     vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Adrien Begrand <vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>

Subject:      OTR character key

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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Hello all,

 

I just finished typing this out for a friend in need... I thought I'd

pass it along for anyone who doesn't have a character guide. All those

who do, delete away!

 

Adrien

 

_On The Road_ Character Key

 

NOTE: All character names are listed alphabetically by last name, with

the exception of characters with single names; pseudonym first, real

name second.

 

"AUNT"--Gabrielle L'Evesque Kerouac [mother of JK]

REMI BONCOEUR--Henri Cru [friend of JK at Horace Mann, then in

California & NYC]

CAMILLE--Carolyn Cassady [wife of Neal Cassady for 20 years]

DAMION--Lucien carr [friend of JK, Ginsberg, and Burroughs at Columbia &

later NYC]

DODIE--Julie Burroughs [daughter of Joan Burroughs]

ED DUNKEL--Al Hinkle [friend of Neal Cassady in Denver & SF]

GALATEA DUNKEL--Helen Hinkle [wife of Al Hinkle]

ROLLO GREB--Alan Ansen [poet friend of JK]

TIM GREY--Ed White [friend of JK at Columbia, introduced JK to

"sketching"]

ELMO HASSEL--Herbert Huncke [early friend of JK, Ginsberg, Burroughs, et

al; 'beat' originator]

HAL HINGHAM--Alan Harrington [novelist & essayist, author of _The

Immortalist_]

INEZ--Diana Hansen [wife of Neal cassady in NYC]

JANE--Joan Vollmer Adams Burroughs [wife of William Burroughs]

ROY JOHNSON--Bill Tomson [friend of Neal Cassady in Denver & SF,

introduced Neal to Carolyn]

CHAD KING--Hal Chase [friend of JK at Columbia & Denver]

LAURA--Joan Haverty [second wife of JK, wrote OTR while living with her

in NYC]

OLD BULL LEE--William Burroughs

ROLAND MAJOR--Alan Temko [friend of JK in Denver, architectural critic &

professor]

CARLO MARX--Allen Ginsberg

MARY LOU--Luanne Henderson [Neal Cassady's first wife, road companion of

Cassady & JK]

AMY MORIARTY--Cathy Cassady [daughter of Neal & Carolyn Cassady]

DEAN MORIARTY--Neal Cassady

JOANIE MORIARTY--Jamie Cassady [daughter of Neal & Carolyn Cassady]

SAL PARADISE--Jack Kerouac

BABE RAWLINS--Beverly Burford [Bob Burford's sister, knew JK in SF as

well as Denver]

RAY RAWLINS--Bob Burford [friend of JK's in Denver]

RAY--William Burroughs, Jr. [son of Joan & William Burroughs]

TOM SAYBROOK--John Clellon Holmes [novelist, author of _Go_, the first

Beat Generation novel published]

STAN SHEPHERD--Frank Jefferies [friend of JK's in Denver]

TOM SNARK--Jim Holmes [early friend of Neal Cassady's in Denver]

TERRY--Bea Franco [girlfriend of JK in California, "The Mexican Girl"]

ED WALL--Don Uhl [friend of Neal Cassady in Colorado]

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:59:25 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         David Bruce Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: OTR character key

Comments: To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca

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Adrien Begrand wrote:

>

> Hello all,

>

> I just finished typing this out for a friend in need... I thought I'd

> pass it along for anyone who doesn't have a character guide. All those

> who do, delete away!

>

> Adrien

>

> _On The Road_ Character Key

>

> NOTE: All character names are listed alphabetically by last name, with

> the exception of characters with single names; pseudonym first, real

> name second.

>

> "AUNT"--Gabrielle L'Evesque Kerouac [mother of JK]

> REMI BONCOEUR--Henri Cru [friend of JK at Horace Mann, then in

> California & NYC]

> CAMILLE--Carolyn Cassady [wife of Neal Cassady for 20 years]

> DAMION--Lucien carr [friend of JK, Ginsberg, and Burroughs at Columbia &

> later NYC]

> DODIE--Julie Burroughs [daughter of Joan Burroughs]

> ED DUNKEL--Al Hinkle [friend of Neal Cassady in Denver & SF]

> GALATEA DUNKEL--Helen Hinkle [wife of Al Hinkle]

> ROLLO GREB--Alan Ansen [poet friend of JK]

> TIM GREY--Ed White [friend of JK at Columbia, introduced JK to

> "sketching"]

> ELMO HASSEL--Herbert Huncke [early friend of JK, Ginsberg, Burroughs, et

> al; 'beat' originator]

> HAL HINGHAM--Alan Harrington [novelist & essayist, author of _The

> Immortalist_]

> INEZ--Diana Hansen [wife of Neal cassady in NYC]

> JANE--Joan Vollmer Adams Burroughs [wife of William Burroughs]

> ROY JOHNSON--Bill Tomson [friend of Neal Cassady in Denver & SF,

> introduced Neal to Carolyn]

> CHAD KING--Hal Chase [friend of JK at Columbia & Denver]

> LAURA--Joan Haverty [second wife of JK, wrote OTR while living with her

> in NYC]

> OLD BULL LEE--William Burroughs

> ROLAND MAJOR--Alan Temko [friend of JK in Denver, architectural critic &

> professor]

> CARLO MARX--Allen Ginsberg

> MARY LOU--Luanne Henderson [Neal Cassady's first wife, road companion of

> Cassady & JK]

> AMY MORIARTY--Cathy Cassady [daughter of Neal & Carolyn Cassady]

> DEAN MORIARTY--Neal Cassady

> JOANIE MORIARTY--Jamie Cassady [daughter of Neal & Carolyn Cassady]

> SAL PARADISE--Jack Kerouac

> BABE RAWLINS--Beverly Burford [Bob Burford's sister, knew JK in SF as

> well as Denver]

> RAY RAWLINS--Bob Burford [friend of JK's in Denver]

> RAY--William Burroughs, Jr. [son of Joan & William Burroughs]

> TOM SAYBROOK--John Clellon Holmes [novelist, author of _Go_, the first

> Beat Generation novel published]

> STAN SHEPHERD--Frank Jefferies [friend of JK's in Denver]

> TOM SNARK--Jim Holmes [early friend of Neal Cassady's in Denver]

> TERRY--Bea Franco [girlfriend of JK in California, "The Mexican Girl"]

> ED WALL--Don Uhl [friend of Neal Cassady in Colorado]

 

THAT KARYOKIE DUDE SHIRLEY WAS A FUCKING COMPLICATED OLD TURNIP.

DR

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 11 Jan 1998 00:14:31 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         David Bruce Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      KCLINT!

Comments: To: edebatemail <edebate@list.uvm.edu>,

          "CVEditions@aol.com" <CVEditions@aol.com>,

          bohemian <Bohemian@maelstrom.stjohns.edu>

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WESTERN MOVIE THEMES

FROM

CLINT EASTWOOD MOVIES:

The Good the bad and the ugly planet of the apes and ants

High Plains Drifter

Seedlings

A Fistfull of Copper

Albino RYDER!

Hang em high joe kidd for a few bucks more the outland josie wales two

mules for sister sarah/sara

 

PC1995 Dominion Entertainment, I. Manufactured and distributed in the

USA by K-tel International (USA) INC 15535 Mesa Trail Plymouth ROCK.

 

DBR

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 11 Jan 1998 02:10:00 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         David Bruce Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      WSB

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HE IS RISEn HE IS RISEn INDEEDY!!!!

Is it TRUE THAT he still hates ALL GIRLS NAMED FATTIE PATTIE?

DBR>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 11 Jan 1998 02:24:07 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         David Bruce Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      poetess JOYGOLISCHISDEFNITELYDEADASADOORNAILONABRASSBREDBED

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R.I.P

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 11 Jan 1998 01:54:56 -0800

Reply-To:     Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: Stone on Kerouac

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Hello David!

 

Happy New Year to you etc..

 

I am surprised to see a response to my post from so long ago! So let me see

if it looks like you might want me to respond further

 

<<SNIP>>

>

>It behooves us (as my stepsister katie's teacher would say) to seriously

>consider how each of us can help to electrify American dreaming once

>again so that this experiment in nation-hood will not be another long

>long nightmare in the darkness from which none of us can awake.  It

>seems that this electrification is closely tied to notions of

>authenitication and that revivals of Americanism in both intrapersonal

>and universal meanings are self-reinforcing.

 

Hmmm. If that is how it seems to you, it is o.k. by me. I am not sure though

how these words translate into  whatever action.

 

<<SNIP>>

 

>> People authenticate their american identity when they give their lives

in

>> war with declared enemies of the state.

>

>This is a fairly narrow scope for authentication - we can serve

>authentically without dying in wars.

 

Absolutely. I used it as one  example only, not to indicate scope.

>

>It has nevertheless happened that

>> some prisoners of war found more in common with their guards than with

their

>> nation.

>

>The research of Bettleheim (i believe it was) on the concentration camp

>victims associating with the values of the guards seems to correlate

>with these notions.

 

I see that other alert and informed Beat-Lers have provided some questions

regarding Bruno Bettleheim. Long before some character questions about

Bettleheim emerged I had very serious questions about his pronouncements.

Specifically about some generalizations the man made about concentration

camp inmates that were quite outrageously incorrect. He was in a camp only a

few days, and talked as if he had authoritative info about camp inmate

behaviors, that I, and any of my fellow ex concentration camp inmates that I

asked about it, found to be laughable (no joke though). So much for

Bettleheim's "findings".

 

  When two catholics kill each other in a war of their nations, does

>> that authenticate theit religious identities, their national identities,

the

>> identities of their selves?

>

>Once again, it seems that the killing notion of authentification seems

>to be a difficult one for the world to detach.  If two soldiers from

>different nations save each other's lives in war, and they are both

>catholic which authentications are involved?

 

I would say they authenticate their religious identities or humanitarian

identities to be taking precedence over national identities. Although this

is an oversimplification. I chose killing because willingness to kill

suggests a very strong authentication of identification. People prove

(authenticate) their patriotism, national identites, when they risk their

lives and take the lives of the national enemies in war. No question in my

mind that  persons who live the ideals of their nation authenticate their

national identities in a much more positive and valuable manner in the long

run.

>

>Many eagle scouts have authenticated their scout

>> credo that way.

>

>I only made it a couple weeks in scouts.  I couldn't hack it.

 

 

>

>Many writers have authenticated their identity as writers by

>> the work they produced. Jack Keouac authenticated himself as a writer who

>> tilled the soil of the american landscape among other places that he

could

>> find to search for any signs of life, mindless and mindfull action.

>

>Tilled the soil of the American landscape is an interesting metaphor.

>I'm not certain it is appropriate.  It is lovely but Jack was more of a

>railroad and seaman than a farmer it seems.  I would say Woody Guthrie

>was closer to the soil.

>

I really am puzzled about what you question here. The word "landscape" has

evolved to be used as a metaphor for environment be it land, air, or sea.

Even landscape of the mind. I am not quite sure what the questions are that

arisse in your mind. Replace my word "landscape" with "environment" if it

works better for you.

 

<<SNIP>>>>

>> Arguments are won by one side or another.

>

>Rarely.  Arguments are part of a process of knowing.  Argumentation is

>the cutting edge of epistomelogy research not public opinion.  Notions

>of who won or lost are mere soundbites they leave little weight in the

>long run.

>

I was using the word "argument" in its ordinary sense, referring to a real

argument between two sides in which the side that wins the argument prevails

over the other side's argument. Like defense and prosecution in a court of

law for example.

 

>Reflecting upon our understanding

>> of things only stimulates us to further explorations, hopefully to be

able

>> to see more clearly  in the grey areas of the mind where the perspective

of

>> others brings more light as well as creates new shadows.

>

>Definitely.  And this is why the winning or losing of the arguments per

>se isn't the question.  Rather it is the reflecting that argument brings

>out in all of us.

 

I was not talking about "the question" or about value measurements pragmatic

results in the short or long run..

 

<<SNIP>>

 

>> Unredeemed and in no need of authentication

>

>happy new year leon,

And an authentic happy new year to you too, and to all authentic human

beings.

>david rhaesa

>apt. #23

>

>> leon

>>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

>> To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

>> Date: Wednesday, December 10, 1997 7:21 AM

>> Subject: Re: Stone on Kerouac

>>

>> >I'm not sure I'm going to put this very well but I agree with Diane.

>> >Kerouac, it seems to me, did seek to become part of, and to capture in

>> >his art, the vast spirit of the American dream as Wolfe and Fitzgerald

>> >and others did before him.

 

Does that necessarily mean that he sought to authenticate his identity as

aperson through these subjects of his art?

 

 I agree with Diane wholeheartedly that he

>> >never found the redemption that he was looking for and maybe the

>> >impossibility of achieving such redemption is a truth readers discover

>> >through his work.   How does one discover or authenticate himself,

>> >except by measuring himself against a larger idea or tradition --

 

No one is restricted to define themselves through any of these groupings

>> >national identity, religion etc.  In the end, one's search for self may

>> >end in a rejection of such big ideas as divisive and counterproductive

>> >but the search, it seems to me, has to involve a struggle with such

>> >ideas nonetheless.

 

"Such Ideas" cover a  wide range of concepts. I am not sure that nation or

religion are necessarily significant  issues in everyone's identities.

 

leon

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 11 Jan 1998 11:14:34 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: poetess JOYGOLISCHISDEFNITELYDEADASADOORNAILONABRASSBREDBED

In-Reply-To:  <34B881A7.3878@midusa.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

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David Bruce Rhaesa says:

>R.I.P

>

>

webegunourthoughtswithGODISDEADthisphrasenormallyusedbychristianideaofGOD

theall-knowingall-powerfulandall-lovingdoesnotexists-cute-cute-America-cu

te-Aaaaaaamericaaaaaaaaaaa!!!intendedquestionmarkreversed-cute-cute-AMERI

CAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-cute-cuuuuuuuuuute!America-americaAmeeeeeeerica!!!!!

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 11 Jan 1998 07:50:29 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         David Bruce Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      STATUES OF DAEDALUS -- By Nathaniel Owens of Joliet Prison

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"of their own motion they entered the conclave of Gods in Gypsum.

Some sense it is as if a shuttle should weave of itself, and a plectrum

should do its own axe playing." -- Aristotle "ed Politco" 1253b

 

in the centre of the 20th century the STATUES of DAEDALUS that "cunning

craftsman" of Greek legend, are beginning to dance in the West.

 

automaton (i.e., self-correcting machines that feedloop information and

adjust themselves) and cyberneticanation (i.e. making the automated

machines capable of responding to a definitive infinity of contingencies

through hooking them up with computers)!

DBR/dbr

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 11 Jan 1998 08:44:04 +0000

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Day of the Gladiators

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In my part of the world everything stops today for the spectacle of the

National Football League playoffs.  Massive displays of testosterone and

stylized violence, in which I intend to immerse myself.    After all,

Jack was a half-back.

 

Obviously it is important to the balance of everything that San

Francisco beats Green Bay--just as a triumph of a great Beat City over

the cloying heartland.  I am less involved in the AFC side--although a

Denver victory would be nice--Denver, lonesome for her heroes, vs. San

Francisco ofthe poetry rennasisance ---on to the the Super Bowl.

 

James Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 11 Jan 1998 08:48:51 +0000

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Thom Gunn

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Fans of Gunn's poetry, or SF Poetry Renn fans in general may be

intereted to know that Gunn is the cover story in the SF Examiner

Magazine which is part of the jointly published San Francisco Sunday

paper.    Not a bad year for them--Mt. Girl, and now Thom.

 

Jame Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 11 Jan 1998 11:21:16 -0600

Reply-To:     cawilkie@comic.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Cathy Wilkie <cawilkie@COMIC.NET>

Subject:      Re: Robin Williams on Leno

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> Subject:

>         Re: WSB mentioned on Leno

>   Date:

>         Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:28:44 -0500

>   From:

>         mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

>

>

> At 08:27 AM 1/10/98 -0800, you wrote:

> >On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Jeff Taylor wrote:

> >

> >> Thursday night Robin Williams was on the Tonight Show. Somehow Gus Van

> >> Sant's name was mentioned, and RW described GVS as like "a cross

> >> between Mr Rogers and William Burroughs." This seemed to elicit no

> >> reaction, so RW mumbled something like, "no one know knows what I'm

> >> talking about, do they".

> >

> >Ahhhh, but they will one day ... :)

> >

> >Listen, tell me, I don't know what he means either and I have imbibed both

> Mr. Rogers and William Burroughs' neighborhood.  What is the not very funny

> Williams getting at?

>

> Mike Rice

> >

 

 

I think that Robin Williams was referring to the fact that a lot of

people these days know WSB only as "that wacky old guy who did the Nike

commercials a couple years back."  they don't know the stories, they

don't know the history, etc. etc.

 

 

I had an experience in trying to describe who burroughs was just this

past October.  This friend of mine, age 21, living in a medium size

town, hangs out with the interesting types and the bar band crowd, was

in chicago with me visiting another friend of mine.  We're on our way

for the boys to go get tattooed, I'm talking about WSB.  The guy says,

who?  I said the writer, beat generation writer... he said what was the

beat generation?  I try for a while to connect things up for him , even

going so far as to connect Ken Kesey to WSB, kind of like the seven

stages of Kevin Bacon game, it still isn't working.  We get to the

tattoo parlor, and lo and behold, there is a framed photograph of WSB on

the wall.  I got excited, turned to my friend, pointing at the picture

emphatically.  "THERE!"  I said, "That's him, right there in that

picture!"

 

"Oh, " my friend replied.  "That's the old guy who does the Nike

commercials."

 

And the smile just melted right off of my face.

 

cathy

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:37:51 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         David Bruce Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: STATUES OF DAEDALUS -- By Nathaniel Owens of Joliet Prison

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David Bruce Rhaesa wrote:

>

> "of their own motion they entered the conclave of Gods in Gypsum.

> Some sense it is as if a shuttle should weave of itself, and a plectrum

> should do its own axe playing." -- Aristotle "ed Politco" 1253b

>

> in the centre of the 20th century the STATUES of DAEDALUS that "cunning

> craftsman" of Greek legend, are beginning to dance in the West.

>

> automaton (i.e., self-correcting machines that feedloop information and

> adjust themselves) and cyberneticanation (i.e. making the automated

> machines capable of responding to a definitive infinity of contingencies

> through hooking them up with computers)!

> DBR/dbr

lip

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 11 Jan 1998 14:39:29 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         TKQ <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Tonight: Chat In TKQ Chat Room

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Tonight: Approximately, at 8:00 EST, there will be a formal introduction of

the Kerouac Quarterly Chat Room. All are invited! To attend, simply go to

the Kerouac Quarterly web page and click from the link provided....hope to

see some of you there. Sincerely, Paul of The Kerouac Quarterly....

 

 

    Go to:

    http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/KerouacQuarterly.html

 

      Then click on the link provided.....Thanks!

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:57:27 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         IDDHI <IDDHI@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Proust Questions answered by Proust

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Dear List,

 

A few days ago I posted the well-known "Proust Questionnaire" to the list. It

seems like an appropriate thinking tool to use during the introspective period

upon which a new year dawns.

 

James Stauffer deflected it, Paul Maher answered it, and I said I'd post

Proust's own responses in a few days, and they do follow this introduction.

 

A few points of information, according to what I understand: The Proust

Questions appear monthly on the back page of Vanity Fair magazine, used as an

interview tool for "celebrities." The 20 questions I posted the other day are

apparently the refined list, though I don't know who refined them. The two

completed questionnaires that follow here have some of the same and some

different questions than in the final, refined version. The first

questionnaire (15 questions) was the product of a party game from when Proust

was 13. These kids didn't waste their time on spin-the-bottle or pin-the-tail-

on-the-donkey, but went straight for the cerebral fix. The second

questionnaire was completed when Proust was 20 and is much longer.

 

My favorite answer is #5, from his 13-year-old list of answers. There is much

to be learned from that.

 

The 20 questions which I sent originally seem to be a good mix to get one's

brain going. I recommend the mental exercise for anyone at any age. If you

didn't save the 20 questions and want a copy, you can e-mail me.

..............................................

Marcel Proust's answers at 13:

1.  7 What do you regard as the lowest depth of misery?

To be separated from Mama

2.  7 Where would you like to live?

In the country of the Ideal, or, rather, of my ideal

3.  7 What is your idea of earthly happiness?

To live in contact with those I love, with the beauties of nature, with a

quantity of books and music, and to have, within easy distance, a French

theater

4.  7 To what faults do you feel most indulgent?

To a life deprived of the works of genius

5.  7 Who are your favorite heroes of fiction?

Those of romance and poetry, those who are the expression of an ideal rather

than an imitation of the real

6.  7 Who are your favorite characters in history?

A mixture of Socrates, Pericles, Mahomet, Pliny the Younger and Augustin

Thierry

7.  7 Who are your favorite heroines in real life?

A woman of genius leading an ordinary life

8.  7 Who are your favorite heroines of fiction?

Those who are more than women without ceasing to be womanly; everything that

is tender, poetic, pure and in every way beautiful

9.  7 Your favorite painter?

Meissonier

10. 7 Your favorite musician?

Mozart

11. 7 The quality you most admire in a man?

Intelligence, moral sense

12. 7 The quality you most admire in a woman?

Gentleness, naturalness, intelligence

13. 7 Your favorite virtue?

All virtues that are not limited to a sect: the universal virtues

14. 7 Your favorite occupation?

Reading, dreaming, and writing verse

15. 7 Who would you have liked to be?

Since the question does not arise, I prefer not to answer it. All the same, I

should very much have liked to be Pliny the Younger.

 

Proust at 20:

1.  Your most marked characteristic?

A craving to be loved, or, to be more precise, to be caressed and spoiled

rather than to be admired

2.  The quality you most like in a man?

Feminine charm

3.  The quality you most like in a woman?

A man's virtues, and frankness in friendship

4.  What do you most value in your friends?

5.  Tenderness - provided they possess a physical charm which makes their

tenderness worth having

6.  What is your principal defect?

Lack of understanding; weakness of will

7.  What is your favorite occupation?

Loving

8.  What is your dream of happiness?

Not, I fear, a very elevated one. I really haven't the courage to say what it

is, and if I did I should probably destroy it by the mere fact of putting it

into words.

9.  What to your mind would be the greatest of misfortunes?

Never to have known my mother or my grandmother

10. What would you like to be?

Myself - as those whom I admire would like me to be

11. In what country would you like to live?

One where certain things that I want would be realized - and where feelings of

tenderness would always be reciprocated.

12. What is your favorite color?

Beauty lies not in colors but in thier harmony

13. What is your favorite flower?

Hers - but apart from that, all

14. What is your favorite bird?

The swallow

15. Who are your favorite prose writers?

At the moment, Anatole France and Pierre Loti

16. Who are your favorite poets?

Baudelaire and Alfred de Vigny

17. Who is your favorite hero of fiction?

Hamlet

18. Who are your favorite heroines of fiction?

Phedre (crossed out) Berenice

19. Who are your favorite composers?

Beethoven, Wagner, Schumann

20. Who are your favorite painters?

Leonardo da Vinci, Rembrandt

21. Who are your heroes in real life?

Monsieur Darlu, Monsieur Boutroux (professors)

22. Who are your favorite heroines of history?

Cleopatra

23. What are your favorite names?

I only have one at a time

24. What is it you most dislike?

My own worst qualities

25. What historical figures do you most despise?

I am not sufficiently educated to say

26. What event in military history do you most admire?

My own enlistment as a volunteer!

27. What reform do you most admire?

(no response)

28. What natural gift would you most like to possess?

Will power and irresistible charm

29. How would you like to die?

A better man than I am, and much beloved

30. What is your present state of mind?

Annoyance at having to think about myself in order to answer these questions

31. To what faults do you feel most indulgent?

Those that I understand

32. What is your motto?

I prefer not to say, for fear it might bring me bad luck.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:48:31 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         CodyPomera <CodyPomera@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Proust Questions answered by Proust

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

I'd like a copy of the questions.  Unfortunately I deleted them from my

mailbox.  Thanks.

 

-George

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:18:25 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         IDDHI <IDDHI@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Proust Questions answered by Proust

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

The original "20 Questions"... reposited for George and everyone else. Enjoy.

......................................

1.  What is your most marked characteristic?

2.  What do you consider your greatest achievement?

3.  When and where were you happiest?

4.  What is your greatest regret?

5.  What is your idea of perfect happiness?

6.  What is your most treasured possession?

7.  Where would you like to live?

8.  What is your greatest fear?

9.  What is the trait you most deplore in yourself?

10. What is the trait you most deplore in others?

11. What do you consider the most overrated virtue?

12. What is your greatest extravagance?

13. What is your favourite journey?

14. What is it that you most dislike?

15. What is the quality you most like in a man?

16. What is the quality you most like in a woman?

17. What do you most value in your friends?

18. If you were to come back as a person or thing, what do you think it would

be?

19. If you could choose what to come back as, what would it be?

20. How would you like to die?

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:49:59 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      chat room

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

went to the chat room and heard you all got kicked off . i will go back

there at 9;00

patricia

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 11 Jan 1998 22:34:51 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         main user <mparsons@PARTECHSOLUTIONS.COM>

Subject:      Re: another newcomer...

Mime-version: 1.0

Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

jodie:

 

congrats, glad it went well.

 

mick

 

"When I was young, I belived in God, but as I got older, it was my desire to

see God that kept me from seeing what was here on Earth"

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:37:57 +1000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Liam Ferney <s341839@STUDENT.UQ.EDU.AU>

Organization: Student

Subject:      Writing

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

I am interested in corresponding with people who also write literature.

i Write storeis, poems and plays.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:32:43 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>

Subject:      Personal for Bill Gargan, disregard

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Hi Bill,

 

Could you please send me a non-BITNET address where I can contact you? The

BITNET address keeps bouncing back.

 

Thanks,

Neil

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 05:34:47 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Julian Ruck <julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Writing

Content-Type: text/plain

 

 so do i..

 all three...

 -julian

 

 

 "it is easy to fly, simply throw yourself at the ground, and miss"

-adams

 

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 08:44:06 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Eric Lytle <e.lytle@CED.UTAH.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Robin Williams on Leno

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

> I had an experience in trying to describe who burroughs was just this

> past October.  This friend of mine, age 21, living in a medium size

> town, hangs out with the interesting types and the bar band crowd, was

>

> in chicago with me visiting another friend of mine.  We're on our way

> for the boys to go get tattooed, I'm talking about WSB.  The guy says,

>

> who?  I said the writer, beat generation writer... he said what was

> the

> beat generation?  I try for a while to connect things up for him ,

> even

> going so far as to connect Ken Kesey to WSB, kind of like the seven

> stages of Kevin Bacon game, it still isn't working.  We get to the

> tattoo parlor, and lo and behold, there is a framed photograph of WSB

> on

> the wall.  I got excited, turned to my friend, pointing at the picture

>

> emphatically.  "THERE!"  I said, "That's him, right there in that

> picture!"

>

> "Oh, " my friend replied.  "That's the old guy who does the Nike

> commercials."

>

> And the smile just melted right off of my face.

>

> cathy

 

 

This is exactly the reason why I joined this list.  I have a grand total

of two friends who even have a clue about the beat writers.  Kinda makes

it hard to share thoughts and insights.

 

-E

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 07:58:48 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Julian Ruck <julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Robin Williams on Leno

Content-Type: text/plain

 

>> I had an experience in trying to describe who burroughs was just this

>> past October.  This friend of mine, age 21, living in a medium size

>> town, hangs out with the interesting types and the bar band crowd,

was

>>

>> in chicago with me visiting another friend of mine.  We're on our way

>> for the boys to go get tattooed, I'm talking about WSB.  The guy

says,

>>

>> who?  I said the writer, beat generation writer... he said what was

>> the

>> beat generation?  I try for a while to connect things up for him ,

>> even

>> going so far as to connect Ken Kesey to WSB, kind of like the seven

>> stages of Kevin Bacon game, it still isn't working.  We get to the

>> tattoo parlor, and lo and behold, there is a framed photograph of WSB

>> on

>> the wall.  I got excited, turned to my friend, pointing at the

picture

>>

>> emphatically.  "THERE!"  I said, "That's him, right there in that

>> picture!"

>>

>> "Oh, " my friend replied.  "That's the old guy who does the Nike

>> commercials."

>>

>> And the smile just melted right off of my face.

>>

>> cathy

>

>

>This is exactly the reason why I joined this list.  I have a grand

total

>of two friends who even have a clue about the beat writers.  Kinda

makes

>it hard to share thoughts and insights.

>

>-E

>

i joined this list for basically the same reason...

i was a little tired of people thinking beatniks wore berets and all had

goaties...refused to bathe...and slept in garbage cans, snapping their

fingers in their sleeping saying..."oo..skit-skat dadddy o..."

-julian

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 08:22:59 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Greg Beaver-Seitz <hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Robin Williams on Leno

Content-Type: text/plain

 

>i joined this list for basically the same reason...

>i was a little tired of people thinking beatniks wore berets and all

had

>goaties...refused to bathe...and slept in garbage cans, snapping their

>fingers in their sleeping saying..."oo..skit-skat dadddy o..."

>-julian

>

 

 

I know what you mean about the classic idea of berets and crap.

I tried talking to one of my friends about Ginsberg once and he just

said, "What pisses me off about beat poets is how they always snap their

fingers instead of clapping after a reading..."

I nodded and smiled.

 

-Greg

 

 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

* Ginsberg etc.                         *

* http://members.tripod.com/~Sprayberry *

* Dozens of poems, pictures, info       *

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

 

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 08:43:55 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Julian Ruck <julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Robin Williams on Leno

Content-Type: text/plain

 

>I know what you mean about the classic idea of berets and crap.

>I tried talking to one of my friends about Ginsberg once and he just

>said, "What pisses me off about beat poets is how they always snap

their

>fingers instead of clapping after a reading..."

>I nodded and smiled.

>

>-Greg

>

 

 when all else fails...

smile and nod....

-julian

 

 

 "it is easy to fly, simply throw yourself at the ground, and miss"

-adams

 

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:51:23 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Gregory J. Conroy" <gconroy@SIUE.EDU>

Subject:      Re: WSB mentioned on Leno

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 2:28 AM 1/10/98, Jeff Taylor wrote:

 

>Thursday night Robin Williams was on the Tonight Show. Somehow Gus Van

>Sant's name was mentioned, and RW described GVS as like "a cross

>between Mr Rogers and William Burroughs." This seemed to elicit no

>reaction, so RW mumbled something like, "no one know knows what I'm

>talking about, do they".

 

I saw Good Will Hunting, which was directed by GVS and starred RW, and I

noted at the end of the credits that the film--written by Matt Damon and

Ben Affleck--was dedicated to WSB and AG.....I wonder if that that was an

idea from the writers or from Van Sant?!?

 

gc

 

Gregory J. Conroy

Editor of Publications

SIU Edwardsville

Edwardsville, IL 62026-1027

 

"Might as well be frank, monsieur.

It would take a miracle to get you

out of Casablanca and the Germans

have outlawed miracles."

 

"Imagination is the voice of daring."

                                --Henry Miller

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:18:56 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Maggie Gerrity <u2ginsberg@YAHOO.COM>

Subject:      Adams

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

 

Julian,

  Is the Adams quoted at the end of your message Douglas Adams, the

genius behind "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy?" While not at all

Beat, that series of books is by far the funniest I've ever read.

             Maggie

 

>  "it is easy to fly, simply throw yourself at the ground, and miss"

> -adams

 

 

_________________________________________________________

DO YOU YAHOO!?

Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:30:24 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: WSB mentioned on Leno

In-Reply-To:  <v01510100b0dfebf197b2@[146.163.39.50]>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

I saw that movie too, just the other night but I didnt stick around long

enough to see that dedication. Im wondering the same thing, whose

dedication was it?

 

On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Gregory J. Conroy wrote:

 

> At 2:28 AM 1/10/98, Jeff Taylor wrote:

>

> >Thursday night Robin Williams was on the Tonight Show. Somehow Gus Van

> >Sant's name was mentioned, and RW described GVS as like "a cross

> >between Mr Rogers and William Burroughs." This seemed to elicit no

> >reaction, so RW mumbled something like, "no one know knows what I'm

> >talking about, do they".

>

> I saw Good Will Hunting, which was directed by GVS and starred RW, and I

> noted at the end of the credits that the film--written by Matt Damon and

> Ben Affleck--was dedicated to WSB and AG.....I wonder if that that was an

> idea from the writers or from Van Sant?!?

>

> gc

>

> Gregory J. Conroy

> Editor of Publications

> SIU Edwardsville

> Edwardsville, IL 62026-1027

>

> "Might as well be frank, monsieur.

> It would take a miracle to get you

> out of Casablanca and the Germans

> have outlawed miracles."

>

> "Imagination is the voice of daring."

>                                 --Henry Miller

>

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:53:06 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Julian Ruck <julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Adams

Content-Type: text/plain

 

 yes, the wonderful doug adams...

 btw way...i always thought that ford prefect was a lot like dean

moriarty in "on the road"...i doubt it was a concious decisioin on adams

part...but they are similar...

-julian

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:26:03 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sebastian Suarez <sebastian.suarez@SWIPNET.SE>

Subject:      Beats and Jazz question

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Hello

I'm new here and I am asking for a little help.

In which way are the beats influenced by jazz?

I actually don't seem to get it. All that stuff about the poetry being

influence by jazz rythms. There just seems to be no rythm at all.

 

Love

Sebastian

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:31:40 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sebastian Suarez <sebastian.suarez@SWIPNET.SE>

Subject:      Dylan

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Read about a Dylan convention in the paper today.

It was in the 19th. One of the topics were "How Ginsberg influenced Bob"

and another was "Similarities between Kerouac and Bob"

 

Does anybody know anything about this?

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:50:18 +0000

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Beats and Jazz question

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Sebastian

 

Try listening more to the poets reading themselves, especially reading

with jazz, and it will come through better for you.  The stuff of Jack

reading with Steve Allen playing piano, for instance, I think will show

you where this is going.  You just aren't seeing in on the page, you have

to hear the line, and see the way weight shifts between word, the

differences in the time value of words.  Once you hear the poets

voice--especially with Kerouac and Ginsberg, you can never hear it another

way.

 

J. Stauffer

 

Sebastian Suarez wrote:

 

> Hello

> I'm new here and I am asking for a little help.

> In which way are the beats influenced by jazz?

> I actually don't seem to get it. All that stuff about the poetry being

> influence by jazz rythms. There just seems to be no rythm at all.

>

> Love

> Sebastian

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:52:47 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Eric Lytle <e.lytle@CED.UTAH.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Beats and Jazz question

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Sebastian Suarez wrote:

 

> I actually don't seem to get it. All that stuff about the poetry being

>

> influence by jazz rythms. There just seems to be no rythm at all.

 

If you haven't already done so,  listen to the Kerouac box set.  He was

probably the most influenced by jazz,  and it shows the most in his

readings.  I gained a lot of insight on his writings after hearing the

words directly from him.

 

-E

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:57:49 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mainbooks <Mainbooks@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Beats and Jazz question

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

Dear Sebastian, you wrote regarding the jazz connection with the beats, do you

have access to a 4 tape boxed set called "The Jack Kerouac Collection, if so,

listen to all of them and maybe it will be more clear. J. Main.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:19:39 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         KRUMMX <KRUMMX@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Writing

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

ummmmm i am a poet i guess and have taken a stab

at writing a few fiction stories in journal format ummmm

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:27:13 -0800

Reply-To:     Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Life in the Communes

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

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Ksenija,

 

Here is a bonus bit of info. I thought others might be interested in this

one too, so I am sending it to the list. If not interested please don't

Flame, remember Delete.

 

Did I tell you what was the biggest problem at our community the Flower

Farm?

 

Are you ready for this?

 

It was the kitchen sink.

 

What?, you say,  you couldn't you fix a kitchen sink problem among all the

dedicated, intelligent dozen adults of the community?

 

We tried all sorts of things to fix the problem, people left because of it,

new people came with awareness of it, and with plenty of dedication to build

a healthier life, but the problem stayed unsolved.

 

To start with we decided that we were not going to have any rules to follow.

The rent that we needed was so ridiculously low, the food so cheaply

available,  mind expansion opportunities wherever we looked, social

companionship, sex, drugs, entertainment, everything that was eating up so

much energy and good will in the present day world was there for the asking.

It will be a snap for forward looking aware individuals who cherish this

precious opportunity, to be sufficiently sensitive to help protect our

idyllic situation.

 

In most important ways the cooperation and participation was indeed

inspiring. Difficult problems in personal relationships were tackled with

courage, taboos, jealousies and antipathies were conscientiously worked on.

Housecleaning did not work too well to begin with and required our first

concession to dreaded rules.

 

We decided to assign cleaning tasks at weekly meetings. That worked.

Everybody worked together and the Sunday meetings with subsequent work

parties became fun highlights in our community life. IT WORKED FOR

EVERYTHING BUT THE KITCHEN SINK.

 

In the beginning we thought all of us were responsible idealists enough to

clean up after ourselves when using the kitchen, to not leave a mess for

others. But the sink would become quickly filled with unwashed dishes. When

someone wanted to eat or drink and all the plates or glasses or cups were

unwashed in the sink, all kinds of resentments were kicking in.

 

At our Sunday meetings we passionately considered solutions. In two years we

tried a whole bunch of them. If you can think of a possible solution, we

probably tried it. After two years nevertheless the sink collection of dirty

dishes was as dependable as the seasons. Good sink days, long lasting series

of good sink days were inevitably vanquished by a sinkful of dirty dishes

with all the predictable attendant reactions and consequences.

 

Maybe someone was running late for a very important meeting or something

that had a high priority, and surely others would understand, would forgive

one insignificant cup left in the sink. Sometimes that even worked and

another person would graciously come along and wash it. Inevitably, however,

someone would come along and resentfully add his/her unwashed cup. No point

being responsible when others aren't, etc.. The chances for a third cup or

plate to be added to the mess increased very rapidly, exponentially. When

the sink pile-up became significant it became almost like a personal insult

to dedicated explorers of new lifestyles to even try to clean their own

dishes. Hey, everybody else is leaving their used up dishes for others to

clean, why shouldn't I. Perhaps we all knew better, but the knowledge did

not interfere with events.

 

I wouldn't say that our community failed because of it. The

commercialization of marijuana and the attendant legal problems busted us up

first, and we did last for a couple of years, but had it not been for that,

the kitchen sink loomed as the biggest threat to the realization of our

pioneering efforts and dreams.

 

Thought you might be interested to know that the bathroom was no problem,

sexual taboos and jealousies were dealt with in mature and often very

satisfying ways, our dreams were not going down the toilet, they ended as

nightmares in the kitchen sink.

 

leon

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Ksenija Simic <xenias@EUnet.yu>

To: Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>

Date: Monday, January 12, 1998 7:09 AM

Subject: Re: with a delay

 

 

>you've helped a lot; i wish that i could've experienced it.

>

>> I am not sure what you mean by "prosper".

>i didn't mean financially; i wouldn't expect that. i was thinking more

>of the experience, emotions, what you learnt about yourself...but you

>answered that also.

>

>all the best...

>ksenija

>

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:32:34 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "James F. Wood 253-7886" <WOODJ@MAIL.FIRN.EDU>

Subject:      Writing

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

 

I also try to write poems, especially on Vietnam and LOVE or yes LOve

Thanks

Jim "The OLd Hippie"

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:54:27 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Beats and Jazz question

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

The FYI, if you don't have the box set you can hear some snippets at

 

http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~gallaher/k_speaks/kerouacspeaks.html

 

 

 

At 01:57 PM 1/12/98 EST, you wrote:

>Dear Sebastian, you wrote regarding the jazz connection with the beats, do you

>have access to a 4 tape boxed set called "The Jack Kerouac Collection, if so,

>listen to all of them and maybe it will be more clear. J. Main.

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:20:45 -0800

Reply-To:     Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: Beats and Jazz question

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Hi Tim,

 

Got ta tell you the truth, I almost forgot your page. It came at me looking

real good! Now I just will have to look up your stories. Thanks for the

pleasant surprise.

leon

-----Original Message-----

From: Timothy K. Gallaher <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Monday, January 12, 1998 12:06 PM

Subject: Re: Beats and Jazz question

 

 

>The FYI, if you don't have the box set you can hear some snippets at

>

>http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~gallaher/k_speaks/kerouacspeaks.html

>

>

>

>At 01:57 PM 1/12/98 EST, you wrote:

>>Dear Sebastian, you wrote regarding the jazz connection with the beats, do

you

>>have access to a 4 tape boxed set called "The Jack Kerouac Collection, if

so,

>>listen to all of them and maybe it will be more clear. J. Main.

>>

>>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:37:11 +0000

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Life in the Communes

Comments: To: Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Leon,

 

Thanks for this wonderful piece.  It fits beautifully with my own recollections

of Crow Farm outside Eugene.  All boils down the the  problem of dealing with

"the tragedy of the commons."  Sexual jealousy, all manner of personal problems

were easier to deal with than everybodies differeing sense of responsibility for

household maintance.

 

Well, at Crow Farm there were the guys who would sell car batteries for beer,

rendering much of the fleet immobile--but even that was easier to deal with.

 

Leon Tabory wrote:

 

> Ksenija,

>

> Here is a bonus bit of info. I thought others might be interested in this

> one too, so I am sending it to the list. If not interested please don't

> Flame, remember Delete.

>

> Did I tell you what was the biggest problem at our community the Flower

> Farm?

>

> Are you ready for this?

>

> It was the kitchen sink.

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:02:35 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         main user <mparsons@PARTECHSOLUTIONS.COM>

Subject:      Re: Writing

Mime-version: 1.0

Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

I saw your posting on BEAT-L and was interested to know what (in all genuine

honesty) you consider literature.  The reason I ask is purely curiousity on

my part, as I do often take up the pen but hesitate to label it

"literature"... i prefer the mad ravings of a delinquent, anti- social mind.

 

bounce back with any thoughts.

 

best regards,

 

mick

 

 

"When I was young, I belived in God, but as I got older, it was my desire to

see God that kept me from seeing what was here on Earth"

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:13:59 +0000

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Writing

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

That, my friend is an awfully large question, and I have different answers on

different days.

 

James

 

main user wrote:

 

> I saw your posting on BEAT-L and was interested to know what (in all genuine

> honesty) you consider literature.  The reason I ask is purely curiousity on

> my part, as I do often take up the pen but hesitate to label it

> "literature"... i prefer the mad ravings of a delinquent, anti- social mind.

>

> bounce back with any thoughts.

>

> best regards,

>

> mick

>

> "When I was young, I belived in God, but as I got older, it was my desire to

> see God that kept me from seeing what was here on Earth"

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:23:59 +0000

Reply-To:     tkc@zipcon.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>

Organization: art language wholsale retail

Subject:      nicosea

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

i checked out the kerouac quarterly page last night, and never could get

into the chat room, but i was surprised to see all the negative stuff

there about gerald nicosea and his fine kerouac bio memory babe.

 

i'm completely at a loss as to why this is. nicosea did an excellent

piece of research and his archieves are top notch.  he was the only

person to find and interview a whole bunch of people, many of whom have

died or disappeared, and while some of what he wrote may be unpleasant,

i assume he has a specific reference for everything he wrote

 

the archive is huge and a goldmine for researchers and should be open to

the public

 

tkc

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:25:49 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mary Maconnell <MMACONNELL@MAIL.EWU.EDU>

Subject:      Used bookstore finds

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

 

So after not having read any Burroughs I went searching and found

"Naked Lunch," "Soft Light,"(?) and "The Wild Boys."  I also found

Ferlinghetti's "Coney Island of the Mind" which is excellent.

 

I'm starting with "The Wild Boys" but now am wondering why.  I'm a little

bit into chapter 3 and it's so weird thus far and I'm wondering if there's

any advice anyone can give a person not yet versed with Burroughs.

 

Thanks --

Mary

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:30:16 +0000

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: nicosea

Comments: To: tkc@zipcon.com

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Tom

 

There are folks who love and revere Gerry Nicosia and those who feel very

differently.  Paul Maher of the Kerouac Quarterly is one of the latter. We

have been through very ugly wars on this list repeatedly over GN's issues

with the Kerouac Estate (if I dare utter those dreaded words).  I for one

would greatly hate to see it break out again.  If you had been through an

"Estate War" I expect you would too.  The mention of Gerry's name just seems

to start wars.  Do the research on both sides, there is alot out there on

various web sites.  I would hate to see it back here.

 

Begging, pleading

 

James Stauffer

 

Tom Christopher wrote:

 

> i checked out the kerouac quarterly page last night, and never could get

> into the chat room, but i was surprised to see all the negative stuff

> there about gerald nicosea and his fine kerouac bio memory babe.

>

> i'm completely at a loss as to why this is. nicosea did an excellent

> piece of research and his archieves are top notch.  he was the only

> person to find and interview a whole bunch of people, many of whom have

> died or disappeared, and while some of what he wrote may be unpleasant,

> i assume he has a specific reference for everything he wrote

>

> the archive is huge and a goldmine for researchers and should be open to

> the public

>

> tkc

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:41:17 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sorted <junky@BURROUGHS.NET>

Subject:      Re: Used bookstore finds

In-Reply-To:  <01ISALLNAQBM8Y8DWC@mail.ewu.edu>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>I'm starting with "The Wild Boys" but now am wondering why.  I'm a little

>bit into chapter 3 and it's so weird thus far and I'm wondering if there's

>any advice anyone can give a person not yet versed with Burroughs.

>

 

 

The best advice, drawing from my own experience: start at the beginning,

with Junky, and read in chronological order according to when the books

were written. of course, wsb is quoted saying his books could be cut into

at any point, but reading them in the order they were written gives a nice

picture of his style's development, and gradually introduces you to his

symbolism and the various rythms of his career. Junky is narrative, then

Yage Letters, written with Ginsberg, is narrative under the correspondence

umbrella, and then Queer, which starts out stylistically similar to Junky,

but then begins to fragment into the style that surfaces in Naked Lunch...

 

and so on.

 

worked for me!

 

-s

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:52:55 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Greg Beaver-Seitz <hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Used bookstore finds

Content-Type: text/plain

 

>So after not having read any Burroughs I went searching and found

>"Naked Lunch," "Soft Light,"(?) and "The Wild Boys."  I also found

>Ferlinghetti's "Coney Island of the Mind" which is excellent.

>

>I'm starting with "The Wild Boys" but now am wondering why.  I'm a

little

>bit into chapter 3 and it's so weird thus far and I'm wondering if

there's

>any advice anyone can give a person not yet versed with Burroughs.

>

>Thanks --

>Mary

>

 

 

One word:

Heroin.

 

-Greg

 

 

 

 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

* Ginsberg etc.                         *

* http://members.tripod.com/~Sprayberry *

* Dozens of poems, pictures, info       *

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

 

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:04:25 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mary Maconnell <mmaconnell@MAIL.EWU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Used bookstore finds

In-Reply-To:  <v03102802b0e04ae75788@[206.190.9.145]>

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Yeah, but what if I couldn't find Junky and don't have the heart to buy

that and the others new?  :)

 

Mary

 

(P.S. Greg's comment was pretty damned funny!)

 

On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Sorted wrote:

 

> >I'm starting with "The Wild Boys" but now am wondering why.  I'm a little

> >bit into chapter 3 and it's so weird thus far and I'm wondering if there's

> >any advice anyone can give a person not yet versed with Burroughs.

> >

>

>

> The best advice, drawing from my own experience: start at the beginning,

> with Junky, and read in chronological order according to when the books

> were written. of course, wsb is quoted saying his books could be cut into

> at any point, but reading them in the order they were written gives a nice

> picture of his style's development, and gradually introduces you to his

> symbolism and the various rythms of his career. Junky is narrative, then

> Yage Letters, written with Ginsberg, is narrative under the correspondence

> umbrella, and then Queer, which starts out stylistically similar to Junky,

> but then begins to fragment into the style that surfaces in Naked Lunch...

>

> and so on.

>

> worked for me!

>

> -s

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:12:47 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      TO:  Friends of David Rhaesa

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

As many of you may have figured out from his posts this weekend, David

experienced a "manic" phase.  He is currently in the Salina Regional

Medical Center for a couple days to be evaluated and get his medication

on track again.  He asked that I notify all his e-mail friends and let

them know of his situation and this seemed the best way to do it.  We

expect he will be home soon and he will be in touch with all of you at

that time.  If, for any reason, he is in the hospital for a longer period

of time, I will post his full mailing address.  Let's all give as much

support to him as we possibly can and hope he is able to be back with us

soon.

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:56:18 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         randy royal <randyr@SOUTHEAST.NET>

Subject:      Re: nicosea

Comments: To: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

what  do you guys think? how about an amendment?

>Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:53:51 +0000

>From: James Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>

>Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net

>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I)

>To: randy royal <randyr@southeast.net>

>Subject: Re: nicosea

>

>Randy

>

>I would certainly second that one!

>

>some rule such as "no postings on the Kerouac Estate Controversy except the

>posting of actual results of actuals trials."

>

>James

>

>randy royal wrote:

>

>> well said. perhaps somebody could talk bill gargan into adding an extra

>> clause like this on the registration message?

>> randy

>

>

>

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:03:27 +0000

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: TO:  Friends of David Rhaesa

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

> Diane

 

Thanks for the note, and to paraphrase, tell David, we are with him in the

Salina Regional Medical Center . . .

 

James Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:14:09 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         TKQ <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Chat Room is Open Now!

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

for those who want to try it...it is open now.

Go to the web page below,

Click on the link that says Chat Room,

Once it opens up, type in a nickname, choose a version, I recommend the

"Lite" version for faster loading,

It should open up to the page connecting you to the room.

Type in your say and hit ENTER.

Hope to see some of you there! Paul...

 

  http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/KerouacQuarterly.html

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:11:09 -0800

Reply-To:     Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: TO:  Friends of David Rhaesa

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Can David receive e-mail in the hospital? Probably not, but I thought I'd

ask. Best wishes to you, David

 

leon

-----Original Message-----

From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Monday, January 12, 1998 5:03 PM

Subject: TO: Friends of David Rhaesa

 

 

>As many of you may have figured out from his posts this weekend, David

>experienced a "manic" phase.  He is currently in the Salina Regional

>Medical Center for a couple days to be evaluated and get his medication

>on track again.  He asked that I notify all his e-mail friends and let

>them know of his situation and this seemed the best way to do it.  We

>expect he will be home soon and he will be in touch with all of you at

>that time.  If, for any reason, he is in the hospital for a longer period

>of time, I will post his full mailing address.  Let's all give as much

>support to him as we possibly can and hope he is able to be back with us

>soon.

>DC

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:12:52 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: nicosea

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

I would include no talking about how much you like to whine about the so

called estate battle.  There are more posts like than than acrimonious

estate battles.

 

Or how bout no more posts about what books get stole the most  or who is

beat and so on and so on and scoobydoobydo on

 

where does it stop.

 

Why the keepers of the estate hate Nicosia so much up to the irrational

level I have seen is hard to understand.

 

But of course Nicosia put them on the map and is lining their pockets.

 

And of course Nicosia wasn't alone (Charters, Lee and Gifford, McNally also

share in the making the estate a profitable enterprise).  Without the

scholars and working writers like Nicosia and aforesaid folks kerouac would

not be near the halfway decent cash cow he is today.

 

The estate folks should fall down on their kneww and thank jerry Nicosia.

 

 

 

>what  do you guys think? how about an amendment?

>>Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:53:51 +0000

>>From: James Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>

>>Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net

>>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I)

>>To: randy royal <randyr@southeast.net>

>>Subject: Re: nicosea

>>

>>Randy

>>

>>I would certainly second that one!

>>

>>some rule such as "no postings on the Kerouac Estate Controversy except the

>>posting of actual results of actuals trials."

>>

>>James

>>

>>randy royal wrote:

>>

>>> well said. perhaps somebody could talk bill gargan into adding an extra

>>> clause like this on the registration message?

>>> randy

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 00:17:16 -0600

Reply-To:     cawilkie@comic.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Cathy Wilkie <cawilkie@COMIC.NET>

Subject:      Marie Countryman

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

I just wanted to let you all know that I am going to meet Marie

Countryman in Chicago on her return trip home.   She has a three-hour

layover there, which I am sure will be spent downing many pints,

talking, laughing, and getting her psyched up for the rest of her

journey.

 

I heard from her the other day, she was saying something about probably

being incommunicado until she returns home, as she was spending the last

few days of her stay somewhere other than where she had been staying.

(I'm pretty sure this info is correct.  Leon, can you verify this?)

 

She should be back home I figure by Sunday night or monday morning.

 

I'll let you all know how the meeting goes, and if any of you have

personal messages and/or encouragement for our wandering Marie, please

e-mail them to me by Thursday night so I can print them out to take to

her when I see her on Saturday.

 

Later, dudes,

 

cathy

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:41:31 +0000

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: nicosia

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Timothy,

 

And why Nicosia hates the heirs (which is more accurate than keepers at least

until the court speaks) is equally unfathomable.  That is what makes this debate

so hopeless. Sort of reminds one of Bosnia or Northern Ireland.

 

James Stauffer

 

Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:

 

> Why the keepers of the estate hate Nicosia so much up to the irrational

> level I have seen is hard to understand.

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 23:51:38 +0000

Reply-To:     tkc@zipcon.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>

Organization: art language wholsale retail

Subject:      Re: nicosea

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

gosh everybody, lets lay off the espresso and take a bonghit,  i

shouldnta spoke outta turn

 

apologies

 

 

 

<snipp'd for arts sake> wrote:

>

> I would include battle posts like books get

> beat and so on and so on and scoobydoobydo on

>

> where does it stop.

>

> Why the keepers of the  hate  so much up to the irrational

> level I have seen is hard to understand.

>

> But of course, put them on the map, lining their pockets alone,

> share in the

> scholars and working folks kerouac would

>  be near the cow.   he is today.

>

> The folks should fall down on their knees and thank an amendment?

 

> >>I would certainly second that one!

> >>

> >>some rule such as "Kerouac

> >>posting of actual results of actuals trials."

 

> >>> well said. perhaps somebody could talk like this on the registration

 message?

 

thanx to ol bull lee for the inspiration

 

geez if i wanted to freak people out i woulda just posted more christian

stuff

 

love and peace

 

tkc

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 00:34:08 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: nicosia

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Tom, I wasn't and didn't respond to your post about the estate.  And If you

think my post in response to James' was somehow unmellow I didn't percieve

or mean it that way.

 

My point in this has always been that I like to hear about the estate

battle and accept the vitriol soewed at Jerry and his masterly rhetorically

heavy responses as part of the package.

 

My point is also that, sure, I know some people don't like controversy and

shy away from any conflict.  Consequently they don't like hearing the

argument going on when it is going on.

 

But some people like it and some people like other things.  There are posts

and topics I don't care about too much but wouldn't ever think to say "

Please don't talk about that"

 

Feel free to "freak us out"

 

No need to apologize, and it seems actually you are the one freaked out in

this instance.

 

I guess the crack about the estate boys getting down on their knees to

thank Nicosia was over the top but that's the fun part.  Nicosia and the

other biographers definately had a strong role in bringing kerouac's work

to the fore and due in part to that kerouac is more popular than ever.

 

But as you know the real reason for my post was so Tom could use the words

to make his cool cutup spop brosady as seen below.

 

 

>gosh everybody, lets lay off the espresso and take a bonghit,  i

>shouldnta spoke outta turn

>

>apologies

>

>

>

><snipp'd for arts sake> wrote:

>>

>> I would include battle posts like books get

>> beat and so on and so on and scoobydoobydo on

>>

>> where does it stop.

>>

>> Why the keepers of the  hate  so much up to the irrational

>> level I have seen is hard to understand.

>>

>> But of course, put them on the map, lining their pockets alone,

>> share in the

>> scholars and working folks kerouac would

>>  be near the cow.   he is today.

>>

>> The folks should fall down on their knees and thank an amendment?

>

>> >>I would certainly second that one!

>> >>

>> >>some rule such as "Kerouac

>> >>posting of actual results of actuals trials."

>

>> >>> well said. perhaps somebody could talk like this on the registration

> message?

>

>thanx to ol bull lee for the inspiration

>

>geez if i wanted to freak people out i woulda just posted more christian

>stuff

>

>love and peace

>

>tkc

 

Bakatcha,

 

TKG

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 00:34:20 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Kerouac Buddhism vs. Catholicism

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

How does the first Noble Truth that all life is suffering differ from

Romans 8:22 "For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in

pain together until now."?

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:57:40 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      TO: Friends of David Rhaesa--Update

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Hi everyone,

 

It looks like David will be in the hospital for more than a couple of

days.  Here is the address for any of you that want to send him cards,

best wishes, things to cheer him up, etc.  Phone calls are not a good

idea at this point and he does not have access to e-mail in the hospital.

Anyone wishing to send him an e-mail message can send it to me and I will

print them out, along with the many I have already received, and get them

to him.  His address is:

 

David Rhaesa

Salina Regional Medical Center

Room 107, North Wing

400 S. Santa Fe

Salina, KS  67401

 

Let's all keep him in our thoughts and prayers. I'm sure all of the

positive vibes will help a great deal!

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 06:36:28 -0800

Reply-To:     Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: Marie Countryman

Comments: To: cawilkie@comic.net

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

<<SNIP>>

>I heard from her the other day, she was saying something about probably

>being incommunicado until she returns home, as she was spending the last

>few days of her stay somewhere other than where she had been staying.

>(I'm pretty sure this info is correct.  Leon, can you verify this?)

>

cathy

 

 

To the best of my knowledge:

marie is visiting Ann Marie since Sunday. Ann Marie is not connected to the

internet. Tonight James will take her to visit him at Redwood City. She

probably can get to her Hot Mail account at James's. She leaves on the

Zephyr for Chicago early Thursday morning.

 

leon

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:30:27 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Beats and Jazz question

In-Reply-To:  <199801121825.TAA27703@mb05.swip.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

A good explanation of that can be found in Good Blonde and Others, the

piece entitled, "The History of Bop" or something like that.

 

On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Sebastian Suarez wrote:

 

> Hello

> I'm new here and I am asking for a little help.

> In which way are the beats influenced by jazz?

> I actually don't seem to get it. All that stuff about the poetry being

> influence by jazz rythms. There just seems to be no rythm at all.

>

> Love

> Sebastian

>

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:47:23 -0500

Reply-To:     "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>

Subject:      Re: TO: Friends of David Rhaesa--Update

 

Reply to message from dcarter@TOGETHER.NET of Tue, 13 Jan

 

I must have missed soemthing...what happened to him???

 

Diane. (H)

 

 

>

>Hi everyone,

>

>It looks like David will be in the hospital for more than a couple of

>days.  Here is the address for any of you that want to send him cards,

>best wishes, things to cheer him up, etc.  Phone calls are not a good

>idea at this point and he does not have access to e-mail in the hospital.

>Anyone wishing to send him an e-mail message can send it to me and I will

>print them out, along with the many I have already received, and get them

>to him.  His address is:

>

>David Rhaesa

>Salina Regional Medical Center

>Room 107, North Wing

>400 S. Santa Fe

>Salina, KS  67401

>

>Let's all keep him in our thoughts and prayers. I'm sure all of the

>positive vibes will help a great deal!

>DC

>

>

 

--

"This is Beat.  Live your lives out?  Naw, _love_ your lives out!"

                                                        --Jack Kerouac

Diane Marie Homza

ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:49:22 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: TO: Friends of David Rhaesa--Update

Comments: To: "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu>

In-Reply-To:  <199801131547.KAA09567@owl.INS.CWRU.Edu>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Im wondering the same thing...

On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Diane M. Homza wrote:

 

> Reply to message from dcarter@TOGETHER.NET of Tue, 13 Jan

>

> I must have missed soemthing...what happened to him???

>

> Diane. (H)

>

>

> >

> >Hi everyone,

> >

> >It looks like David will be in the hospital for more than a couple of

> >days.  Here is the address for any of you that want to send him cards,

> >best wishes, things to cheer him up, etc.  Phone calls are not a good

> >idea at this point and he does not have access to e-mail in the hospital.

> >Anyone wishing to send him an e-mail message can send it to me and I will

> >print them out, along with the many I have already received, and get them

> >to him.  His address is:

> >

> >David Rhaesa

> >Salina Regional Medical Center

> >Room 107, North Wing

> >400 S. Santa Fe

> >Salina, KS  67401

> >

> >Let's all keep him in our thoughts and prayers. I'm sure all of the

> >positive vibes will help a great deal!

> >DC

> >

> >

>

> --

> "This is Beat.  Live your lives out?  Naw, _love_ your lives out!"

>                                                         --Jack Kerouac

> Diane Marie Homza

> ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu

>

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 07:37:37 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Subject:      Fw: Re: TO:  Friends of David Rhaesa

 

David will be in the hospital for about 2 weeks.  i think it would really

>help him to receive cards, letters, little gifties while he's there.  just

>be sure that there is nothing wildly out-there thinking-wise.  he just need

>to know what a wide support base he has, and how much we believe he'll be

>back to himself in no time. so send him you're love and encouragement and

>anything grounding you can think of.

>

>will keep you all posted as i get more info.

>

>ciao, sherri

>

>Salina Regional Health Center

>400 S. Santa Fe, Room 107, North Wing

>Salina Regional Health Center,

>400 S. Santa Fe

>Salina, KS 67401.

>

>

>

>-----Original Message-----

>From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

>Date: Monday, January 12, 1998 7:10 PM

>Subject: Re: TO: Friends of David Rhaesa

>

>

>>Can David receive e-mail in the hospital? Probably not, but I thought I'd

>>ask. Best wishes to you, David

>>

>>leon

>>-----Original Message-----

>>From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

>>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

>>Date: Monday, January 12, 1998 5:03 PM

>>Subject: TO: Friends of David Rhaesa

>>

>>

>>>As many of you may have figured out from his posts this weekend, David

>>>experienced a "manic" phase.  He is currently in the Salina Regional

>>>Medical Center for a couple days to be evaluated and get his medication

>>>on track again.  He asked that I notify all his e-mail friends and let

>>>them know of his situation and this seemed the best way to do it.  We

>>>expect he will be home soon and he will be in touch with all of you at

>>>that time.  If, for any reason, he is in the hospital for a longer period

>>>of time, I will post his full mailing address.  Let's all give as much

>>>support to him as we possibly can and hope he is able to be back with us

>>>soon.

>>>DC

>>>

>>

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:59:21 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Fw: Re: TO:  Friends of David Rhaesa

In-Reply-To:  <036444339150d18UPIMSSMTPUSR02@email.msn.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Pardon my ignorance but whats a manic phase?

~Nancy

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:37:58 +0000

Reply-To:     tkc@zipcon.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>

Organization: art language wholsale retail

Subject:      Re: Kerouac Buddhism vs. Catholicism

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:

>

> How does the first Noble Truth that all life is suffering differ from

> Romans 8:22 "For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in

> pain together until now."?

 

 

it doesn't.  what separates buddhism from christianity is the solution

(tho that's the wrong word) to the question, "ok, then, what next)

 

buddhism is a good system of psychology, and anyone can benefit from the

buddhist practice of sitting still, shutting up and listening to and

monitoring one's thoughts for an hour (or twelve), and checking out how

our thoughts structure the world as we understand it

 

in this here 1998 world we're told to listen to our inner child.

buddhism tells us we got no inner child, just a chattering monkey, and

that said monkey ain't always the most purposeful thing to listen to

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:43:42 +0000

Reply-To:     tkc@zipcon.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>

Organization: art language wholsale retail

Subject:      Re: Beats and Jazz question

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

there's a (japanese?) group called UFO that did a great sampled

soundtrack to an old kerouac reading, which i think is part of the

subterranians

 

for me, they capture kerouac's spoken rythms much better than the older

stuff on the boxed rhino set

 

tkc

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 01:15:48 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: TO: Friends of David Rhaesa--Update

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

As some of you have asked why he is in the hospital and about what a

"manic" phase is, I'll try to descibe it as best I can.  David suffers

from a mental disorder, sometimes described as bi-polar condition or

manic depressive, although I hestitate to label it myself.  He has been

functioning well on medication.  Any change in medication or anxiety or

simply a change in body chemistry can throw him off.  No one truly knows

what causes these phases. A manic phase is when he becomes irrational and

out of touch with reality and is unable to function normally on a day to

day basis. His emotions fluxuate wildly.  David voluntarily admitted

himself to the hospital for  evaluation and the doctors will try to get

him stabilizated on the right combination of meds.  As you may have

noticed in the messages he sent to the list this weekend his mind is

simply in a different place and his thought processes are not coherent.

As Sherri pointed out it will probably be a couple weeks before he

adjusts to new medication.  In the meantime let's all send him all of our

best wishes and let him know he is not alone and that we are with him.

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:15:18 -0800

Reply-To:     Sherri <love_singing@email.msn.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@EMAIL.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Fw: Re: TO:  Friends of David Rhaesa

 

Nancy, David is a bipolar manic depressive.   sherri

-----Original Message-----

From: Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Tuesday, January 13, 1998 8:00 AM

Subject: Re: Fw: Re: TO: Friends of David Rhaesa

 

 

>Pardon my ignorance but whats a manic phase?

>~Nancy

>

>The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

>Sure-JK

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:08:25 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Friends of David Rhaesa

Comments: To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Please, Diane, tell to David

my best wishes he comes back

to us.

 

David,

cari saluti dall'Italia,

dal tuo amico Rinaldo.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:35:14 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: TO:  Friends of David Rhaesa

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 10:59 AM 1/13/98 -0500, Nancy wrote:

 

>Pardon my ignorance but whats a manic phase?

 

It is at the opposite pole from depression.  It is

an unusally high state of exhilaration.  People

in a manic phase are expansive to an extent that

is out of character, and instead of feeling fatigued

and listless, the manic person is full of energy.

Another symptom of a manic phase is the person

speaks fast, and dramatically, often with many

jokes and puns.  It is extremely rare that people

only suffer from manic episodes, depression usually

alternates with mania.  Bipolar disorder is also known

as manic-depressive disorder.  There is evidence that

supports a genetic connection.  There have been studies

conducted with twins that showed that where one twin

from monozygotic twins had bipolar disorder, so did the

other, in more than 70 percent of cases.  In the studies

of dizygotic twins where one twin has bipolar disorder, both

twins have bipolar disorder in less than 15 percent of cases.

It is treated with lithium bicarbonate, and if this doesn't

work there are two other drugs that are commonly used

to help dampen severe manic episodes: carbamazepine

(Tegretol) and valproate (Depakene).  Both are anti-

convulsants.  The use of antidepressants can cause

the risk of triggering manic episodes.

 

There are a number of artists and writers who probably

suffered from bipolar disorder, they are: poets Lord

Byron and Anne Sexton, novelists Virginia Woolf and

Ernest Hemingway, composers Peter Ilich Tchaikovsky

and Sergey Rachmaninoff, and painters Amedeo

Modigliani and Jackson Pollock.

 

Hope this was a help?

Mike

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:38:56 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Dylan

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 07:31 PM 1/12/98 +0100, Sebastian Suarez wrote:

 

>Read about a Dylan convention in the paper today.

>It was in the 19th.

<snip>

>Does anybody know anything about this?

 

It is taking place at Stanford and I can't

remember the date that it takes place.

 

Mike

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:48:05 +0000

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Dylan

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

If my memory serves it was last Monday, but I don't have the paper in

front of me

 

James

 

M. Cakebread wrote:

 

> At 07:31 PM 1/12/98 +0100, Sebastian Suarez wrote:

>

> >Read about a Dylan convention in the paper today.

> >It was in the 19th.

> <snip>

> >Does anybody know anything about this?

>

> It is taking place at Stanford and I can't

> remember the date that it takes place.

>

> Mike

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:57:24 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jim Dimock <juancito@JUNO.COM>

Subject:      Re: TO:  Friends of David Rhaesa

 

de-lurking for a moment to wish David best wishes. We miss you Race!

 

Jim

There but for the grace of God goes I...

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:29:53 -0800

Reply-To:     Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: Fw: Re: TO:  Friends of David Rhaesa

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: multipart/mixed;

              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01BD2027.55583760"

 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

 

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BD2027.55583760

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        charset="us-ascii"

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>Pardon my ignorance but whats a manic phase?

>~Nancy

 

Hi Nancy,

 

A problem with answers by non experts is that sometimes not everything is

correct and may lead to further confusion.

 

Do you realize how much interesting information is available at your

fingertips on the internet? Amazing! You want to know about bipolar disorder

(formerly Manic Depressive Disorder)? all the info you want is at your

fingertips. Infoseek gave me the best results when I typed Bipolar Disorder.

I am attaching a web page by an artist who suffers from it. I know you

already have two answers, but one of them includes symptoms that are from

other complicating factors, not strictly from Bipolar problems. The URL is

from Mayo Clinic, a very reliable source.

http://www.mayohealth.org/mayo/9609/htm/bipolar.htm

 

Hopefully I am not adding confusion

 

leon

 

 

>

>The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

>Sure-JK

>

 

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        name="bipolar.html"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Content-Disposition: attachment;

        filename="bipolar.html"

 

 =0D =0D <HTML> =0D<HEAD><TITLE>Bipolar Disorder</TITLE></HEAD> =0D<BODY =

 TEXT=3D"#F9AEAC" LINK=3D"#E6BFBE" VLINK=3D"#C6D2F3" ALINK=3D"#000000" =

BACKGROUND=3D"Gifs/rotten_eggs.jpg"><!-- BEGIN BODY HEADER SECTION =

-->=0D<!-- BEGIN MAIN BODY SECTION --><center><!-- Graphic Tag --><IMG =

WIDTH=3D343 HEIGHT=3D50 ALT=3D"Part of the Bipolar Information Network" =

SRC=3D"Gifs/binbanner.gif" =

BORDER=3D2></center><BR><BR>=0D=0D=0D<BR>=0D<BR><TABLE =

BORDER=3D5>=0D<TR><TD>=0D<IMG SRC=3D"Gifs/TwoFaces.jpg" height=3D160 =

width=3D260 align=3Dleft ALT=3D"two faces"><B><FONT SIZE=3D7 =

COLOR=3D"#C6D2F3"><CENTER>Bipolar Disorder:</CENTER><BR></FONT>=0D =

<B><FONT SIZE=3D6 COLOR=3D"#C6D2F3"><I><CENTER>The Artist Formerly Known =

as Manic =

Depression</CENTER></I></B></FONT></B></TD></TR>=0D</TABLE>=0D<BR>=0D<BR>=

<CENTER>Updated Sept. 29, 1997</CENTER><P>=0D=0D<!-- Horizontal Line Tag =

--><HR ALIGN=3DCenter>=0D<BR><FONT SIZE=3D4>=0D<BR>=0D<CENTER><B>Are you =

in the St. Louis area? Visit us at The Empowerment Center.<BR>=0D Or =

call us at the <!-- Link Tag --><A =

HREF=3D"http://www.dmda.org">Depressive and Manic Depressive Association =

(DMDA)</A>.=0D</CENTER><BR>=0D=0D=0D<!-- Link Tag --><A =

HREF=3D"http://www.ndmda.org/"><CENTER>Or visit the National DMDA =

Site.</CENTER></A><BR><BR>=0D=0D=0D<CENTER><IMG =

SRC=3D"Gifs/flurline.gif" WIDTH=3D448 HEIGHT=3D23 =

ALT=3D"divider"></CENTER>=0D<BR>=0D<BR>=0D=0D=0D<UL>Bipolar disorder, or =

manic depression, is a mental illness affecting as many as 3 million =

Americans, and for one-third of patients, it takes over a decade to =

finally get the correct diagnosis.<P></UL>=0D=0D<UL>It is characterized =

by mood swings, from deep, suicidal depressions, to grand, delusional =

manias. Some researchers theorize that bipolar disorder is not one, but =

a group of many similar illnesses.<P></UL>=0D=0D<UL>The disease, thought =

to result from an imbalance of chemicals in the brain called =

neurotransmitters, often begins to make itself known in the late teens, =

but the average age of diagnosis is 28. It is not uncommon to find a =

trail of destruction left behind during those years of misdiagnosis, as =

well as finding relief in self-medication (alcohol, prescription and =

illegal drugs)<P></UL>=0D=0D=0D<UL>As many as 20 percent will eventually =

die from this disease, committing suicide to escape its torment. There =

is hope, however, with proper medical treatment and support from one's =

loved ones.</UL>=0D<BR></B>=0D<BR><BR>=0D=0D=0D<BR><CENTER><IMG =

SRC=3D"Gifs/flurline.gif" WIDTH=3D448 HEIGHT=3D23 =

ALT=3D"divider"></CENTER>=0D=0D<BR><BR>=0D=0D<B>=0D=0D<FONT =

SIZE=3D5><CENTER><B>Creativity and bipolar =

disorder</B></CENTER><BR>=0D</FONT><BR>=0D=0D<BLOCKQUOTE>=0DI am =

interested in the connection between bipolar disorder and artistic =

creativity. Perhaps it's my way of trying to find the silver lining in =

that constant storm known as bipolar =

disorder.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>=0D<BR>=0D=0D <IMG SRC=3D"Gifs/u144.gif" =

ALIGN=3DLEFT HEIGHT=3D12 WIDTH=3D12 ALT=3D"Button"> <!-- Link Tag --><A =

HREF=3D"bipolar/blessings.html">Blessings from the Dark =

Side</A>=0D<UL>=0DThis is a book review of Kaye Gibbons' book, "Sights =

Unseen." But it's more than a review, taking a look at how the author =

channels manic depression into a creative river of prose.</UL><BR>=0D=0D =

<IMG SRC=3D"Gifs/u144.gif" ALIGN=3DABS MIDDLE HEIGHT=3D12 WIDTH=3D12 =

ALT=3D"Button"> <!-- Link Tag --><A =

HREF=3D"http://frostbite.umd.edu/~cass/text/mania.html">Manic depression =

and creativity</A>. <ul>=0DThis article by Kay Jamison. examines the =

link between the illness and artistic personality. </ul><BR>=0D=0D=0D=0D =

=0D <IMG SRC=3D"Gifs/u144.gif" ALIGN=3DLEFT HEIGHT=3D12 WIDTH=3D12 =

ALT=3D"Button"> From <!-- Link Tag --><A HREF=3D"ptoday.html">Psychology =

Today</A><UL>More on the link between art and madness.</UL>=0D =

<BR>=0D=0D=0D <IMG SRC=3D"Gifs/u144.gif" ALIGN=3DLEFT HEIGHT=3D12 =

WIDTH=3D12 ALT=3D"Button"> <!-- Link Tag --><A =

HREF=3D"bipolar/discover.html">Discover Magazine</A><UL>This article =

takes an in-depth look at the link between bipolar disorder and =

creativity. It examines studies, and looks at both the positive and =

negative aspects of the issue.</UL>=0D <BR><BR>=0D=0D<CENTER><IMG =

SRC=3D"Gifs/flurline.gif" WIDTH=3D448 HEIGHT=3D23 =

ALT=3D"divider"></CENTER>=0D<BR><BR>=0D<BR>=0D=0D=0D<B><CENTER><FONT =

SIZE=3D5>Medical issues surrounding bipolar =

disorder</FONT></CENTER></B><BR>=0D<BR>=0D=0D <IMG SRC=3D"Gifs/u144.gif" =

ALIGN=3DLEFT HEIGHT=3D12 WIDTH=3D12 ALT=3D"Button"> An article from <!-- =

Link Tag --><A HREF=3D"ap.html">Associated Press</A> <UL>This article =

examines the reasons for the prolonged delay in diagnosis of bipolar =

disorder.</UL>=0D <BR>=0D=0D=0D=0D <IMG SRC=3D"Gifs/u144.gif" =

ALIGN=3DLEFT HEIGHT=3D12 WIDTH=3D12 ALT=3D"Button"><!-- Link Tag --><A =

HREF=3D"bipolar/lking.html">Larry King</A> <UL> In April, Larry King did =

a show on depression with Mike Wallace, Naomi Judd, Art Buchwald and Dr. =

Kay Jamison. This is the transcript of that program.</UL>=0D <BR> =

=0D=0D=0D <IMG SRC=3D"Gifs/u144.gif" ALIGN=3DLEFT HEIGHT=3D12 WIDTH=3D12 =

ALT=3D"Button"> <!-- Link Tag --><A =

HREF=3D"bipolar/relapse.html">Relapse</A><UL>An interesting article on =

relapse during the use of SSRIs, and the strategies doctors use to =

combat that "poop-out" so many of us have experienced.=0D</UL> <BR>=0D =

<IMG SRC=3D"Gifs/u144.gif" ALIGN=3DLEFT HEIGHT=3D12 WIDTH=3D12 =

ALT=3D"Button">  <!-- Link Tag --><A HREF=3D"bipolar/post.html">Kay =

Jamison</A> <UL>A great interview with Kay Jamison, from the Saturday =

Evening Post. </UL> <BR>=0D=0D=0D <IMG SRC=3D"Gifs/u144.gif" =

ALIGN=3DLEFT HEIGHT=3D12 WIDTH=3D12 ALT=3D"Button"> <!-- Link Tag --><A =

HREF=3D"http://www.sltrib.com/96/JUN/09/twr/01120223.htm">Battling Own =

illness</A>. <UL>From the AP, a fascinating account of Kay Jamison's =

struggle with bipolar illness, and her decision to go public. Also, =

Daniel Fisher of the National Empowerment Center. This article addresses =

the rates of illness among mental health workers, including the study =

that showed psychiatrists had the highest rate of =

suicide.</UL><BR>=0D=0D <IMG SRC=3D"Gifs/u144.gif" ALIGN=3DLEFT =

HEIGHT=3D12 WIDTH=3D12 ALT=3D"Button"><A =

HREF=3D"http://reason.org/1296.html">From the Reason Foundation</A><UL> =

Increasing consumer choice leads to improved quality and lower costs for =

services to the mentally ill.</UL><BR>=0D=0D <IMG SRC=3D"Gifs/u144.gif" =

ALIGN=3DLEFT HEIGHT=3D12 WIDTH=3D12 ALT=3D"Button"> <!-- Link Tag --><A =

HREF=3D"bipolar/folate.html">Folate Deficiency</A><UL>An important =

article on the connection of folate and mood disorders. Low folate can =

cause psychiatric symptoms, but many docs don't seem to know this (or =

care). And some psych meds can *cause* depletion of folate. I have a =

severe form of this anemia from the prolonged use of Tegretol, so I know =

firsthand the impact it has on one's physical health.</UL><BR>=0D=0D=0D =

<IMG SRC=3D"Gifs/u144.gif" ALIGN=3DLEFT HEIGHT=3D12 WIDTH=3D12 =

ALT=3D"Button">  <!-- Link Tag --><A =

HREF=3D"bipolar/haunted.html">Haunted</A> <UL>Haunted is an excerpt from =

Dr. Laura Slater's book "Welcome to My Country." This piece of writing =

will take your breath away. Slater has to battle her own demons and face =

her own past as a mental patient, during her time now as a therapist. =

</UL>=0D  <BR>=0D<CENTER><IMG SRC=3D"Gifs/flurline.gif" WIDTH=3D448 =

HEIGHT=3D23 ALT=3D"divider"></CENTER>=0D<BR>=0D<BR>=0D=0D=0D<FONT =

SIZE=3D5><center>  Links to other bipolar sites =

</center>=0D</FONT><BR>=0D<BR>=0DBelow you will find a few links to the =

best  bipolar areas on the web. These links are very comprehensive and =

complete and represent bipolar disorder at its best (or worse, depending =

on your viewpoint). <BR>=0D<BR>=0D=0D <LI>  <!-- Link Tag --><A =

HREF=3D"http://www.frii.com/~parrot/bip.html">Joy Ikelman's Cybersite on =

Bipolar Disorder</A>. Joy is one of the most special people I've ever =

known. She is truly one of the beautiful souls, and this site reflects =

that beauty. Good, solid information on bipolar disorder, Joy's famous =

files (media file, famous people, the affective spectrum), and most =

importantly - Joy's personal experience with bipolar disorder. Don't =

miss her section on the bipolar family tree!   <BR> <BR>=0D <LI> <!-- =

Link Tag --><A HREF=3D"http://www.moodswing.org/">The Bipolar FAQ</A> - =

everything you wanted to know about bipolar disorder, but were too manic =

to ask. Plus more! This is Moodswing Org, and my buddy Barry has =

listings for national advocacy and support groups. A fantastic site!    =

<BR> <BR>=0D=0D=0D=0D=0D <LI>   <!-- Link Tag --><A =

HREF=3D"http://www.pendulum.org">The Pendulum Pages</A>, your =

comprehensive information source for the bipolar disorders and other =

mood disorders. These pages form part of the information associated with =

the Pendulum Mailing List (my home away from home). My good friend Doug =

Barlow maintains this site, and you'll be blown away by the amount of =

info here.  <BR> <BR>=0D <LI>  <!-- Link Tag --><A =

HREF=3D"http://www.tcnj.edu/~ellisles/BipolarPlanet/">Unofficial =

Pendulum Bipolar Planet</A>, a swingin' place for all our moods. Can =

Bipolar Disorder be fun? You bet it can, and Sister Leslie is here to =

prove it! Great info, and a sometimes lighthearted look at bipolar. =

(Hey, if we can't use our senses of humor, then what's life worth??!)  =

<BR> <BR>=0D <LI>  <!-- Link Tag --><A =

HREF=3D"http://www.slip.net/~sandpipr/">The Phunny Pharm</A>, where =

manic depression is the house specialty. If you've gotta get committed, =

this Psyberspace Psanitarium is the place to go! Much better than the =

state hospital, and the Haldol is complimentary.  <BR> <BR>=0D <LI> =

Almost Human, the original bipolar psychic. No explanation =

available...you gotta see it to appreciate it. And if you don't find it =

hilarious, you are probably not a TRUE bipolar and you have no sense of =

humor. Go back to your calculus. Thank you, and <!-- Link Tag --><A =

HREF=3D"http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/3369/">here's</A> the address. =

<BR>=0D<BR></B>=0D=0D<BR>=0D<center><!-- Link Tag --><A =

HREF=3D"http://www.cmhc.com/"><!-- Graphic Tag --><IMG WIDTH=3D75 =

HEIGHT=3D84 ALT=3D"MHN Badge" =

SRC=3D"Gifs/mhnet2.gif"></A></center><BR>=0D=0D<CENTER><B>Proud =

recipient of the Blue Maxwell and Winds of Change =

Awards</B></CENTER><BR>=0D<CENTER><!-- Link Tag --><A =

HREF=3D"http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6140/award.htm"><!-- Graphic =

Tag --><IMG WIDTH=3D132 HEIGHT=3D90 ALT=3D"Blue Maxwell Award" =

SRC=3D"Gifs/award1.gif"></A> <A HREF=3D" =

http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/9737 "><IMG =

SRC=3D"Gifs/JOAWARD4.GIF" =

ALIGN=3DABSMIDDLE></A>=0D<BR>=0D=0D<BR>=0D=0D<center><B><!-- Link Tag =

--><A HREF=3D"index.html">Home</A> | <!-- Link Tag --><A =

HREF=3D"menu.html">Menu</A> | <!-- Link Tag --><A =

HREF=3D"shocked.html">Shocked</A>  | <!-- Link Tag --><A =

HREF=3D"mental.html">Mental</A> | <!-- Link Tag --><A =

HREF=3D"buffet.html">Int'l</A> | <!-- Link Tag --><A =

HREF=3D"liberals.html">Liberals</A> | <!-- MailTo Tag --><A =

HREF=3D"MAILTO:juli@i1.net">Feedback</A></FONT></B></center> <BR>=0D =

<BR>=0D<HR WIDTH=3D70% ALIGN=3DCENTER><BR>=0D<BR><BLOCKQUOTE>=0D<B>Quick =

Poll! </B><BR>=0DThis poll is NOT a scientific survey. I'm just curious =

how many bipolars also have migraines. <BR>=0DPlease answer ONLY if you =

are bipolar.<BR><BR>=0D</BLOCKQUOTE>=0D=0D <!-- QPoll Segment Begin =

-->=0D  <table border=3D"1" cellpadding=3D"10" width=3D"500"><tr>=0D     =

<td valign=3D"top" width=3D"250" bgcolor=3D"#3427A4">=0D     =

<center><b>=0D        Do you suffer from migraine headaches?<p>=0D       =

     Choose one.<p></b>=0D            <a =

href=3D"http://qstats.dreamcraft.net/">=0D        <img border=3D"1" =

align=3D"center" =

src=3D"http://qstats.dreamcraft.net/images/q.gif"></a>=0D            =

Poll courtesy of QStats=0D     </b></center></td>=0D     <td =

width=3D"250" bgcolor=3D"#3427A4">=0D        <form method=3D"POST"=0D    =

          action=3D"http://qstats.dreamcraft.net/english/qpoll.asp">=0D  =

      <p>=0D           <input type=3D"hidden" name=3D"pollid" =

value=3D"215918698">=0D           <input type=3D"hidden" name=3D"id" =

value=3D"J215918698">=0D           <input type=3D"radio" name=3D"r" =

value=3D"v0">=0D           Yes<br>=0D           <input type=3D"radio" =

name=3D"r" value=3D"v1">=0D           No<br>=0D           <p>=0D         =

  <input type=3D"image"=0D                       border=3D"0"=0D         =

      =

src=3D"http://qstats.dreamcraft.net/english/qpoll.asp?id=3DJ215918698"=0D=

               alt=3D"Vote!">=0D        </p></form>=0D     </td>=0D  =

</tr></table>=0D  <!-- QPoll Segment End ----><BR>=0D=0D<!-- QCount =

Segment Begin -->=0D   <A =

HREF=3D"http://qstats.dreamcraft.net/english/qcount.asp?ac=3DL&id=3DJ2159=

18698">=0D   <IMG BORDER=3D"0"=0D   =

SRC=3D"http://qstats.dreamcraft.net/english/qcount.asp?ac=3DI&id=3DJ21591=

8698"></A>=0D   <!-- QCount Segment End ---->=0D<BR>=0D<BR>=0D<HR =

WIDTH=3D65% ALIGN=3DCENTER><BR>=0D<BR>=0D=0D<!--Human Mind WebRing =

small-version HTML code starts here--> =0D<font size=3D-1> =0D<a =

target=3D"_parent" HREF=3D"http://www.queendom.com/psyring.html"><img =

=0Dsrc=3D"psyring2.gif" alt=3D"Human Mind WebRing" align=3Dleft =

=0Dwidth=3D199 height=3D27 border=3D0></a> =0D<a target=3D"_parent" =

HREF=3D"http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=3Dpsyring&id=3D88&nex=

t"><img =0Dsrc=3D"psynext2.gif" alt=3D"Next site" align=3Dright =

width=3D99 height=3D28 border=3D0></a> =0D<center> =0D[ <a =

target=3D"_parent" =

HREF=3D"http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=3Dpsyring&id=3D88&nex=

t">Next Page</a> =0D| <a target=3D"_parent" =

HREF=3D"http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=3Dpsyring&id=3D88&ski=

p">Skip It</a> =0D| <a =

target=3D"_parent"=0DHREF=3D"http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=3D=

psyring&random">Random site</a> ] =0D</center> =0D</font> =0D<!--Human =

Mind WebRing short-version HTML code ends here--> =0D<!-- BEGIN BODY =

FOOTER SECTION --></body>=0D</html>

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BD2027.55583760--

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:17:10 -0800

Reply-To:     Sherri <love_singing@email.msn.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@EMAIL.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: TO:  Friends of David Rhaesa

 

Jim - David has no access to e-mail - you might want to send him a note or

card at the hospital...  ciao, sherri

-----Original Message-----

From: Jim Dimock <juancito@JUNO.COM>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Tuesday, January 13, 1998 1:44 PM

Subject: Re: TO: Friends of David Rhaesa

 

 

>de-lurking for a moment to wish David best wishes. We miss you Race!

>

>Jim

>There but for the grace of God goes I...

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:43:48 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         DawnDR <DawnDR@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: TO:  Friends of David Rhaesa

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

Thanks for explaining, Mike.  The terms are often just loosely applied and

understanding is difficult.

 

Dawn

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:20:18 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Ira Hayes

 

John Prine does a wonderful version of this song.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:26:40 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: Ginsberg in America

In-Reply-To:  Message of Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:46:31 -0500 from

              <kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>

 

It's an early gossipy biographical sketch of Allen.  Printed in England under t

he title Pater Familias, I think.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 5 Jan 1988 07:08:46 -0600

Reply-To:     jgardner@doane.edu

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jodie R Gardner <JGardner@DOANE.EDU>

Organization: Doane College

Subject:      Existentialism...

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Does anyone know anything about existentialism and it's importance in

the Beat movement and culture?  If so, please explain and help me out

here.  Thanks!

 

*jodie*

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:57:07 +1000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Liam Ferney <s341839@STUDENT.UQ.EDU.AU>

Organization: Student

Subject:      Re: Beats and Jazz question

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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Sebastian Suarez wrote:

>

> Hello

> I'm new here and I am asking for a little help.

> In which way are the beats influenced by jazz?

> I actually don't seem to get it. All that stuff about the poetry being

> influence by jazz rythms. There just seems to be no rythm at all.

>

> Love

> Sebastian

 

Kerouac's Mexico City Blues and most of his spontatneous prose was

influenced by jazz. both in the way they improvised rather than pausing

and carefully thinking over every next note. Mexico Ciy Blues was

bascially just a collection of improvised chorus's based around free

association. Ginsberg was also influenced by jazz. Note the long

phrasing in Howl. This is reminiscent of the long blows taken by jazz

musicans of the time. Also what jazz do you mean ? you may be listening

to the wrong type of jazz given its extensive musical history. The Beats

were basically concerned by a stlye of jazz known as bop. Charlie Parker

and early Miles Davis. Finally a little quote to better illustrate my

point.

 

"I want to be considered a jazz poet blowing in a long blues in an

afternoon jam session on Sunday. I take 242 choruses; my ideas vary and

sometimes roll from chorus to chorus or from halfway though a chorus to

halfway into the next."

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:02:36 +1000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Liam Ferney <s341839@STUDENT.UQ.EDU.AU>

Organization: Student

Subject:      Re: Used bookstore finds

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Mary Maconnell wrote:

>

> So after not having read any Burroughs I went searching and found

> "Naked Lunch," "Soft Light,"(?) and "The Wild Boys."  I also found

> Ferlinghetti's "Coney Island of the Mind" which is excellent.

>

> I'm starting with "The Wild Boys" but now am wondering why.  I'm a little

> bit into chapter 3 and it's so weird thus far and I'm wondering if there's

> any advice anyone can give a person not yet versed with Burroughs.

>

> Thanks --

> Mary

 

Forget everything you know. Just read the book and become immersed in

the fantasy's Burrough's creates. I have npt read the Wild Bunch but I

have read other books by Burroughs and often times they don't follow a

linear path which makes it hard for our indoctrinated minds to grasp.

Good luck and have fun

Nothing is true

Everything is permitted

W.S.B.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:51:44 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         IDDHI <IDDHI@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Existentialism...

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

In a message dated 13-Jan-98 4:27:43 PM Pacific Standard Time,

JGardner@doane.edu writes:

 

<< Does anyone know anything about existentialism and it's importance in

 the Beat movement and culture?  If so, please explain and help me out

 here.  Thanks!

 

 *jodie*

  >>

 

Jodie, this question was posed to you so that you YOURSELF would seek

knowledge of existentialism and how that might have affected a certain group.

Why not read about existentialism, read Beat literature with an eye to seeing

the existential or nonexistential theme therein, and reach your own

conclusion? Otherwise, you'll be getting a point of view, not true knowledge,

which can only be found through seeking it.

 

It's a serious question, and deserves serious contemplation. I urge you to do

that.

 

ID

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:35:25 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      David

 

I'm sure everyone on Beat-l wishes David well.  His posts are certainly among t

he most interesting on the list.  I hope he rejoins us soon.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:50:23 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Carl A Biancucci <carl@WORLD.STD.COM>

Subject:      David Foster Wallace

In-Reply-To:  <BEAT-L%1998010611315041@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> from "Bill Gargan" at

              Jan 6, 98 11:25:27 am

Mime-Version: 1.0

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Who IS this guy?

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:39:10 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: David Rhaesa sends greetings

Comments: cc: Chris West <chriswest@dancris.com>

In-Reply-To:  <34BBFF53.4646@student.uq.edu.au>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Listers:

 

Just spoke to David. He's "fine."

 

He said, "Tell my friends I'm getting too much sleep...I'm OK...should be

out of here in a week or so...there is nothing I need."

 

How about mail I asked?

 

"OK...but add "PLEASE FORWARD" to the address because I might be on my way

home."

 

Jo says: "Get those cards and letters into the mail."

 

David sounded tired. Very tired. But he was very happy I got through to

him. Not much to talk about. Talked about his visit to 1603 E. Williams

Street down in the Valley of the Sun. Said he had a great time. He spent an

evening with two incredible people living in our home down there.

 

I'll check in with him again. When I do I'll pass any info along.

 

j grant

 

                    HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES

                             Details  on-line at

                                 http://www.bookzen.com

                      625,506 Visitors  07-01-96 to 11-28-97

 

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:25:51 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         M84M79 <M84M79@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: TO:  Friends of David Rhaesa

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In a message dated 98-01-13 17:31:35 EST, you write:

 

<< Jim - David has no access to e-mail - you might want to send him a note or

 card at the hospital...  ciao, sherri >>

 

david is in the hospital? is he alright? i signed off the list for a month and

i have no clue what is going on. marie, are you still out there? leon? i was

going to post a hello to my friends just to mention that i was back, but i was

shocked when i read this. sorry for taking up space, but could someone please

e-mail me privately to let me know what happened with david. thanks.

~~marlene

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:30:59 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         M84M79 <M84M79@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Beats and Jazz question

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

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In a message dated 98-01-13 19:31:57 EST, you write:

 

<< "I want to be considered a jazz poet blowing in a long blues in an

 afternoon jam session on Sunday. I take 242 choruses; my ideas vary and

 sometimes roll from chorus to chorus or from halfway though a chorus to

 halfway into the next."

  >>

 is this a JK quote? if not, where did you get it?

~~marlene

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:59:16 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

 

test

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:22:12 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: TO:  Friends of David Rhaesa

In-Reply-To:  <f8245ed9.34bc3041@aol.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>In a message dated 98-01-13 17:31:35 EST, you write:

>

><< Jim - David has no access to e-mail - you might want to send him a note or

> card at the hospital...  ciao, sherri >>

>

>david is in the hospital? is he alright? i signed off the list for a month and

>i have no clue what is going on. marie, are you still out there? leon? i was

>going to post a hello to my friends just to mention that i was back, but i was

>shocked when i read this. sorry for taking up space, but could someone please

>e-mail me privately to let me know what happened with david. thanks.

>~~marlene

 

David is OK. Spoke to him this evening.

 

j grant

 

 

                    HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES

                             Details  on-line at

                                 http://www.bookzen.com

                      625,506 Visitors  07-01-96 to 11-28-97

 

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:31:28 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: David Foster Wallace

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>Who IS this guy?

 

Is this the "Infinite Jest" author?

 

Why do you ask?

 

I have wondered when someone might bring him up.  I haven't because I know

very little about him except I did read girl with mellow hair or something

like that.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:33:02 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Beats and Jazz question

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>In a message dated 98-01-13 19:31:57 EST, you write:

>

><< "I want to be considered a jazz poet blowing in a long blues in an

> afternoon jam session on Sunday. I take 242 choruses; my ideas vary and

> sometimes roll from chorus to chorus or from halfway though a chorus to

> halfway into the next."

>  >>

> is this a JK quote? if not, where did you get it?

>~~marlene

 

That is a JK quote, from the preface to Mexico City Blues

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:34:02 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         marie countyman <mcountyman@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      i'm still alive

Content-Type: text/plain

 

hey all you guys! still alive and well in california. won't hear much

from me because i'm working my up  the coast to the amtrack station.

have missed you all since i've been out computer range, but have been

having a GLORIOUS time.

talk to you all later in the week.

marie

 

 

>

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 23:49:03 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Subject:      Abe Lincoln

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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Was not Abe Lincoln a sufferer from MD/Bipolar?

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 14 Jan 1998 02:54:09 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jjdorfner <Jjdorfner@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Beats and Jazz question

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

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the "i want to be considered a jazz poet..." quote is in the beginning of

Mexico City Blues.  jack was explaining is poetry.

 

john

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:12:03 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Ira Hayes

In-Reply-To:  <BEAT-L%1998011318210937@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

What song?

 

On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Bill Gargan wrote:

 

> John Prine does a wonderful version of this song.

>

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:28:23 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Preston Whaley <paw8670@MAILER.FSU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Beats and Jazz question

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

You also might check out JK's explanation of jazz-prose connection in his

"Essentials of Spontaneous Prose." You can find it in the Portable Jack

Kerouac by Charters, Viking Press or "Casebook on the Beat" by Parkinson.

Ginsberg had the manifesto on his wall as he wrote Howl.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Preston

 

>the "i want to be considered a jazz poet..." quote is in the beginning of

>Mexico City Blues.  jack was explaining is poetry.

>

>john

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:16:45 -0500

Reply-To:     cmdumond@ehc.edu

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Chris Dumond <cmdumond@EHC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Kerouac Buddhism v. Catholicism

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Hey all,

It's been a while since I've bothered to post.  Seems like the list has

been rather uninspired lately.  I liked this question though.  I'd say

that the difference lies in one word, "until".  In christianity, Christ

supposedly takes away the suffering.  Buddhism, on the other hand, tells

us that life is suffering, why and what we can do about it.  However, as

the first noble truth, it remains a constant for humanity.  As i see it,

this is one of the main conflicts Jack experienced in his religious

struggles.

>How does the first Noble Truth that all life is suffering differ from

> Romans 8:22 "For we know that the whole creation groaneth and >travaileth in

 pain together until now."?

 

much love,

Chris

 

P.S.  You know something's wrong when there is more debate ABOUT

debating the Estate funnybusiness than there is actual list content!  My

motion is that Bill puts a clause in signon notice that demands everyone

grow-up and stop parading to see who has the bigger balls.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:17:15 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      The contest

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>much love,

>Chris

 

>P.S.  You know something's wrong when there is more debate ABOUT

>debating the Estate funnybusiness than there is actual list content!  My

>motion is that Bill puts a clause in signon notice that demands everyone

>grow-up and stop parading to see who has the bigger balls.

 

I take it this this post is your entry?

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:39:40 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nicolai Pharao <nicpha@CPHLING.DK>

Subject:      Wild Boys

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Wild Boys is a strange book but far from as strange as any of the cut-up

trilogy, at least when it comes to composition. Having only read it once I

thought it to be an exquisitely beautiful piece of prose and very

entertaining. The criticism of society which Burroughs (rightly) was

renowned for is perhaps not as explicit in this book as it is in others,

most prominently "Naked Lunch" and the cut-up trilogy.Be sure to pick up a

copy of "Exterminator!".

 

bye,

 

Nicolai

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:49:43 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Existentialism...

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 07:08 AM 1/5/88 -0600, you wrote:

>Does anyone know anything about existentialism and it's importance in

>the Beat movement and culture?  If so, please explain and help me out

>here.  Thanks!

>

>*jodie*

>

>

 

I don't remember where I read it (it was a blurb), William Burroughs called

Kerouac America's greatest existentialist writer.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 14 Jan 1998 13:35:08 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Beats and Jazz question

In-Reply-To:  <v01540b00b0e25f002f92@[146.201.2.119]>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

You can also find Essentials of Spontaneous Prose in Good Blonde..

On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Preston Whaley wrote:

 

> You also might check out JK's explanation of jazz-prose connection in his

> "Essentials of Spontaneous Prose." You can find it in the Portable Jack

> Kerouac by Charters, Viking Press or "Casebook on the Beat" by Parkinson.

> Ginsberg had the manifesto on his wall as he wrote Howl.

>

> Hope this helps,

>

> Preston

>

> >the "i want to be considered a jazz poet..." quote is in the beginning of

> >Mexico City Blues.  jack was explaining is poetry.

> >

> >john

>

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:04:11 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Preston Whaley <paw8670@MAILER.FSU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Existentialism...

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

The cardinal doctrine of existentialism according to Sartre is "existence

precedes essence;"  we are born into the world a zero and create our own

being from there.  It presupposes absolute freedom.  Nothing is ordained.

Infinite creative possibilities.  Camus and Sartre are good places to go

for prose realization of the philosophy.  It's less explicit in Kerouac

because he's so subjective but the Nietzchean uberman Dean Moriarty pushes

toward the idea.  The obstacle to all of this is culture of course and

according to Burroughs language itself, because of it, consciousness is

prerecorded.  Therefore existentialism is a ruse performed by deterministic

language which he tried to undermine via cutups, etc.

 

That's an oversimplified nutshell of the issues.

 

Preston

 

>At 07:08 AM 1/5/88 -0600, you wrote:

>>Does anyone know anything about existentialism and it's importance in

>>the Beat movement and culture?  If so, please explain and help me out

>>here.  Thanks!

>>

>>*jodie*

>>

>>

>

>I don't remember where I read it (it was a blurb), William Burroughs called

>Kerouac America's greatest existentialist writer.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:17:18 +0000

Reply-To:     tkc@zipcon.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>

Organization: art language wholsale retail

Subject:      Re: The contest

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:

>

> >much love,

> >Chris

>

> >P.S.  You know something's wrong when there is more debate ABOUT

> >debating the Estate funnybusiness than there is actual list content!  My

> >motion is that Bill puts a clause in signon notice that demands everyone

> >grow-up and stop parading to see who has the bigger balls.

>

> I take it this this post is your entry?

 

 

and tkc adds the addendum:

 

actually, i've been told seeing who had the bigger balls was a game some

of the beats liked.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:53:18 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Donald G. Jr. Lee" <donlee@COMP.UARK.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Existentialism...

Comments: To: Preston Whaley <paw8670@MAILER.FSU.EDU>

In-Reply-To:  <v01540b00b0e2aa215070@[146.201.2.65]>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

That was a brilliantly succinct summary on Existentialism and Burroughs'

response to it...

 

Don Lee

Fayetteville, Ark.

 

"I cannot live without books."

                        --Thomas Jefferson

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:58:48 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         randy royal <randyr@SOUTHEAST.NET>

Subject:      Re: David Foster Wallace

In-Reply-To:  <v01510100b0e1811d3851@[128.125.223.120]>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 08:31 PM 1/13/98 -0800, you wrote:

>Is this the "Infinite Jest" author?

>

>Why do you ask?

>

>I have wondered when someone might bring him up.  I haven't because I know

>very little about him except I did read girl with mellow hair or something

>like that.

>

>

that's him allright. never had time to read that big book (1,000 pages or

so.. not exactly) Infinite Jest, but i will soon. he was featured in a few

articles at

<http://www.amazon.com> about him. maybe they took them down. but they do

have reviews of most of his books at that site.

randy

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:49:33 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         GYENIS <GYENIS@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Proust Questions

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

I went on a x country trip and planned to ask strangers the following

questions, but instead just asked friends and relatives, and recorded it on

Video. It really is entertaining, especially for me since I know everybody,

but it also gave me a little insight into that person as to how they were

feeling that particular day. They has to answer the questions live, they

didn't get to review the questions beforehand.

 

Original five questions:

1)  What is your favorite color?

 

2) What is your favorite number?

 

3) What is the best or favorite place you have ever been to?

 

4) What person, living or dead, would you like to meet, and why?

 

5) Tell me a joke.  (This was the hardest one to get with many people saying

they don't know any jokes, I just kept the film rolling).

 

I added two questions in later 'interviews'.

 

6)  If  you were an animal, what animal would you be? (this is different than

what animal do you want to be)

 

7) Describe a water fall.

 

I  got some great answers, some great jokes as well (as well as why did the

chicken cross the road at least 3 times). I have over 25-30 people

interviewed.

 

Main reason why I started is because I didn't even know my parent's favorite

color and I wanted to document it (because I wouldn't remember otherwise).

 

For me it was great, having a record of my friends and family in a very candid

interview. People watching the video enjoyed it as well and get caught up with

trying to guess people's answers.

 

so it goes, Attila

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:17:24 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         randy royal <randyr@SOUTHEAST.NET>

Subject:      Re: Abe Lincoln

In-Reply-To:  <34BC43BF.996CC74F@scsn.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

hello.

got the below from the groiler encyclopedia. says also that Kraepelin

documened most of that stuff in 1883 in a textbook... abe was assinated in

1865.

 

Emil Kraepelin, b. Feb. 15, 1856, d. Oct. 7, 1926, was a German

psychiatrist who developed an influential classification of psychoses into

two types: dementia praecox, now called schizophrenia, and manic-depressive

psychosis.

 

it would be possible Bentz, but i doubt it was documented. we all have

skeletons in the closet though.

randy

At 11:49 PM 1/13/98 -0500, you wrote:

>Was not Abe Lincoln a sufferer from MD/Bipolar?

>

>--

>

>Peace,

>

>Bentz

>bocelts@scsn.net

>http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:24:10 -0800

Reply-To:     Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: Existentialism...

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Ever thought of writing "In a Nutshell" books?  Wonderful job!

 

leon

-----Original Message-----

From: Preston Whaley <paw8670@MAILER.FSU.EDU>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Wednesday, January 14, 1998 11:03 AM

Subject: Re: Existentialism...

 

 

>The cardinal doctrine of existentialism according to Sartre is "existence

>precedes essence;"  we are born into the world a zero and create our own

>being from there.  It presupposes absolute freedom.  Nothing is ordained.

>Infinite creative possibilities.  Camus and Sartre are good places to go

>for prose realization of the philosophy.  It's less explicit in Kerouac

>because he's so subjective but the Nietzchean uberman Dean Moriarty pushes

>toward the idea.  The obstacle to all of this is culture of course and

>according to Burroughs language itself, because of it, consciousness is

>prerecorded.  Therefore existentialism is a ruse performed by deterministic

>language which he tried to undermine via cutups, etc.

>

>That's an oversimplified nutshell of the issues.

>

>Preston

>

>>At 07:08 AM 1/5/88 -0600, you wrote:

>>>Does anyone know anything about existentialism and it's importance in

>>>the Beat movement and culture?  If so, please explain and help me out

>>>here.  Thanks!

>>>

>>>*jodie*

>>>

>>>

>>

>>I don't remember where I read it (it was a blurb), William Burroughs

called

>>Kerouac America's greatest existentialist writer.

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:50:56 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Zucchini4 <Zucchini4@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: David Foster Wallace

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

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Well, I don't know very much about David Foster Wallace, but as coincidence

would have it, a friend of mine is right now struggling through "Infinite

Jest". She tells me that the book is very good, a lot of very strange

characters. I've read a few parts of it myself, which were hysterical. I

wouldn't describe the prose itself as particularly disjointed, but I think

that the narrative is, not too a terribly confusing degree, but at least

enough to keep you on your toes.

 

He's been compared to Pynchon quite a lot by critics. And speaking of- I've

got Gravity's Rainbow sitting on my shelf waiting for me (soon as I finish The

Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco.... talk about an amazing- and confusing-

author). I've read the beginning before, and got very hung up on the setting.

Can anyone tell me whether this was some kind of future war, who it was

between, etc? of course- if telling me this would spoil the story too much,

I'll just wait and tough it out on my own. Thank you.

 

Oh and one last Foster Wallace thing- I have a little essay type thing by him

comparing the unfinished novel to a "damaged infant". It's pretty funny... a

little weird... if you guys are at all interested I'll post it or send it

through private email...

 

--Stephanie

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:01:44 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Foster Wallace

 

His book "The Broom of the System" is a good read too, though a little quirky.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:52:15 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         GYENIS <GYENIS@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      DHARMA beat Stuff page

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

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Hello

In each issue of DHARMA beat we list poetry chapbooks, zines, books that are

Kerouac related, Kerouac influenced, or the ones we like. If you would like to

have something considered to be listed (and go out and be seen by a bunch of

Kerouac enthusiasts) please e mail me and I will provide an address to mail it

to (different than DHARMA beat's PO Box)

 

thanks, and sorry for the intrusion

Attila

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:52:14 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         GYENIS <GYENIS@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      DHARMA beat- A Jack Kerouac Newszine

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

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DHARMA beat is a zine (newsletter) that is published twice a year about

Kerouac's life and writing. Issue 10  will be published in March.

 

web page:

<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/kerouaczin/dharmabeat.html">

http://members.aol.com/kerouaczin/dharmabeat.html</A>

 

We publish information of interest about Kerouac events and happenings around

the world. A recent issue had an article about Kerouac living in Ozone Park,

New York; an article about Jack's sister Nin; and Allen Ginsberg provided two

dreams that he had where he's talking with Kerouac. Ginsberg wrote :

 

"Poetry America was born before us & will live after us -- and would've been

visible for every eye to see but for the scientists of poetry & sociologists

of Academy measuring the vast mind with monkey calipers & teaspoons of ink --"

 

DHARMA beat is published twice a year, spring and fall. Subscriptions are

$7.00 per year (two issues, make checks payable to DHARMA beat), $10 to Canada

and overseas (payable in US dollars). Sample copies are available for $3.00.

Mail to DHARMA beat, PO BOX 1753, Lowell MA, 01853-1753. For more information

e mail to KEROUACZIN@AOL.COM

 

We are always looking for articles and information about any Kerouac related

item you may have (for example if you have a Kerouac Poetry reading

celebrating his birth or passing) or anything related. Our main purpose is to

let people know about what's going on.

 

Next issue due is March, send stuff for calenders and reviews now.

thanks and enjoy, Attila

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:15:53 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         marie countyman <mcountyman@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Proust Questions

Content-Type: text/plain

 

hey there. the question i have learned in to ask: how psychotic am i and

will a x country trip save my brain or boil it.

just my 2 cents

mc

 

>From owner-beat-l@cunyvm.cuny.edu Wed Jan 14 16:08:53 1998

>Received: from listserv.cuny.edu (listserv.cuny.edu [128.228.100.10])

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(LMail

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-0500

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>          Wed, 14 Jan 98 18:49:58 EST

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>Message-ID:  <7df51287.34bd4f10@aol.com>

>Date:         Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:49:33 EST

>Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

>Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

>From: GYENIS <GYENIS@AOL.COM>

>Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

>Subject:      Proust Questions

>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

>

>I went on a x country trip and planned to ask strangers the following

>questions, but instead just asked friends and relatives, and recorded

it on

>Video. It really is entertaining, especially for me since I know

everybody,

>but it also gave me a little insight into that person as to how they

were

>feeling that particular day. They has to answer the questions live,

they

>didn't get to review the questions beforehand.

>

>Original five questions:

>1)  What is your favorite color?

>

>2) What is your favorite number?

>

>3) What is the best or favorite place you have ever been to?

>

>4) What person, living or dead, would you like to meet, and why?

>

>5) Tell me a joke.  (This was the hardest one to get with many people

saying

>they don't know any jokes, I just kept the film rolling).

>

>I added two questions in later 'interviews'.

>

>6)  If  you were an animal, what animal would you be? (this is

different than

>what animal do you want to be)

>

>7) Describe a water fall.

>

>I  got some great answers, some great jokes as well (as well as why did

the

>chicken cross the road at least 3 times). I have over 25-30 people

>interviewed.

>

>Main reason why I started is because I didn't even know my parent's

favorite

>color and I wanted to document it (because I wouldn't remember

otherwise).

>

>For me it was great, having a record of my friends and family in a very

candid

>interview. People watching the video enjoyed it as well and get caught

up with

>trying to guess people's answers.

>

>so it goes, Attila

>

 

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:04:31 +1000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Liam Ferney <s341839@STUDENT.UQ.EDU.AU>

Organization: Student

Subject:      Re: Beats and Jazz question

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

M84M79 wrote:

>

> In a message dated 98-01-13 19:31:57 EST, you write:

>

> << "I want to be considered a jazz poet blowing in a long blues in an

>  afternoon jam session on Sunday. I take 242 choruses; my ideas vary and

>  sometimes roll from chorus to chorus or from halfway though a chorus to

>  halfway into the next."

>   >>

>  is this a JK quote? if not, where did you get it?

> ~~marlene

 

Yes it is a JK qoute. It's from the start of Mexico City Blues

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:08:47 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Skau <mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>

Subject:      Kerouac

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

The current issue of the _New York Times Book Review_ (18 January 1998)

has an advertisement for Bauman Rare Books offering a copy of a 1st

edition of _On the Road_ for $3200, $200 more than a 1st ed. of a limited

edition (800 copies) of _Anna Livia Plurabelle_ signed by James Joyce!

(p. 5)

Have the Beats arrived, or what?

Cordially,

Mike Skau

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:49:33 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "V.J. Eaton" <vj@PRIMENET.COM>

Subject:      To IRCers and TKQ Maher re:Kerochat

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

The TalkCity Kerochat was a good experiment, but there are better ways.

 

IRC has its own gremlins without being served through HTML/HTTP protocols

while a browser loads Java advertisements and writes cookies.

 

Just use IRC.  IRC programs are free, and the learning curve is . . . read.

 

TKQ, if you want to sponser Beat chat: Pick an IRC server (Delphi's in the

Lowel area, --tends to be busy, tho),  name the #group for us, and give a

general time.   People can generally tend to show up about generally then.

First one to /join creates the channel under the #expected name, and gets op

privileges.

 

Kerochat under current management? --doomed to slowdom and non attendance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

_____________________

More harm is done under guise of goodness than ever realized

by foul deed or evil doer.  Nevertheless, I wish I was good.

--Herbert Huncke

 

V.J. Eaton

Tempe, AZ

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:29:13 -0800

Reply-To:     Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Forked Tongue

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Hello Dear Sherri,

 

Hopefully you had a great day, and a better one coming up tomorrow! They can

allways be better, allways.

 

That is not a forked tongue talking to you, the Forked Tongue is the cafe

that will become the Mumbo Room on Sunday. It is located on the corner of

Kearney and Broadway. I expect to come to the City in the afternoon, will be

happy to call you if you have the time and would like to visit a bit before

the evening reading. I am waiting to tell James until marie is gone.

 

Otherwise I have almost completely recovered from my awful ordeal. Some dark

clouds still linger a bit when blown in by the winds, but they do dissipate.

 

What winds? Like a call from Ann Marie who surprised me with a long list of

complaints about the visit that marie called "GLORIOUS".  Like the message

that marie sent me today. You wanna see it?

 

BTW I started to wade through some of her posts and i have already copy

pasted a whole bunch to refute all the shamelessly false badmouthing that

ingrate has spread around about me. See, I can blow the clouds right into my

head all by myself, but they don't hold water, no rain on my head. Smiles

shine through, the interior weather is clearing nicely.

 

What decided me to prepare a reply is first of all my resolve to tie

together loose ends and reflect them back to marie, the best chance of doing

something good with all the agonizing efforts that I have expended on her

behalf. She sent me an email today that she wants to pass as an olive

branch, but is only adding more insults. She suggests that when i am ready

we should become friends again, maybe resume writing. But instead of

acknowledging anything wrong done on her part, she is ready to excuse me

because she now claims to realize that she gave me mixed messages , sexually

speaking I presume.

 

That only suggests that I may have actually acted out something aggressively

toward her, which is totally false. I will not permit her to get away with

making such accusations.  I also intend to call her on the fact that she

wrote to her therapist that I "jumped her bones three nights in a row". I

suppose he might believe her. I suspect she knows better than to make that

kind of accusation to you. To me the fact that she wrote him that, was for

me the one most enlightening fact about her predicament.

 

To begin with I was very interested in the controversial questions that have

lately arisen about reports of abuse to therapists. I wanted to have an in

depth look, and marie provided me an answer with a definite clarity that was

way beyond any of my expectations.

 

Marie may be telling the truth about her childhood abuse, but there is no

way that she suspects within herself that I "jumped her bones three nights

in a row"!!! It also helps me to understand better why her hterapist has

such little success with her over all these years. While I will present to

her my respose very soon, there is quite a bit of serious consideration for

me how to use all this real life action in the most useful way to her. Once

a therapist always a therapist I guess.

 

By now you must wonder how did I learn that? I assume that you are too

intelligent to believe that maybe I did look over marie's shoulder after all

when she was typing away. Could you believe for a moment that she would type

such statements with me looking over her shoulder?

 

The truth is sort of amazing in its own way. Marie must have wanted me to

see that one, otherwise do you think that she would have left the message

miniaturized on the task bar? Well, I have it on my computer. You wanna see

it? Do you believe I have an obligation to keep it confidential? So far I

haven't told anyone about it. I didn't believe my eyes when I scratched my

head and restored the icon to the screen. I do know that it belongs in the

punch line of my response when the time comes to try to help her see how she

abuses herself by playing out  fictitious victim roles to gain sick power

that gets her sympathy and support for infantile games.

 

But you didn't ask for all that crap. I suspect that you too, like myself,

like to see through these things that are hindering us from dealing more

usefully with these tragedies in life. That's my excuse for wriiting it all

out. You too are with me on this stage getting to look at the players and

their games.

 

So you thought I would just go on and on? Nyah. Enough.

 

I hope your evening is a very pleasant one.

 

Love and hugs

leon

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Jan 1998 00:02:04 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Kerouac Archive Post

In-Reply-To:  <34BD4EC8.1134@ehc.edu>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Chris Dumond wrote:

>Jo,

> Frankly, I'm tired of it.  It seems like everyone is trying to find new

>ways of bringing up

>OLD business that will only be settled by a court.

 

Are you tired of the subject, or does the subject make you uncomfortable?

 

If it will help you be a little less "tired" I will add "Keroauc Archive

Post" to the SUBJECT line--starting with this post--so you can delete

without having to read the post.

 

You refer to my post "Nicosia Hate? I think not," as "childish."

Interestingly, you were the only one of 72 people who responded who either

wanted more information, or were unaware of the suit over the (alledged)

forging of Jack Keroauc's mother's name to her will--which left everything

to S. Sampas. Many were shocked to learn that John Sampas was going to

great expense to keep the suit from ever being heard in court. Are you

aware that it's costing John Sampas a hell of a lot more to try to keep the

case from going to court, than it would to walk into court and prove

Memere's signature wasn't forged--which he claims he can do.

 

I was equally surprised by the number of Keroauc readers who had never read

his last letter.

 

This indicates to me thata few people on the Beat List might be tired of

the posting of "childish" Keroauc Archive information,  but many people new

to the subject appreciate the information.

 

j grant

 

 

                    HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES

                             Details  on-line at

                                 http://www.bookzen.com

                      625,506 Visitors  07-01-96 to 11-28-97

 

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Jan 1998 01:51:45 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         IDDHI <IDDHI@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Forked Tongue

Comments: To: letabor@cruzio.com

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

Man, I am stunned. Let all who witness this gigantic faux pas be sobered into

realizing how important it is to CHECK THE REPLY TO or the Send To box before

you send it.

 

Gonna be a lotta excitement on Beat-L now... Suddenly I feel naked.

 

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.... er... uh....

 

Please accept my condolences, all named parties.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Jan 1998 08:51:45 +0000

Reply-To:     jhasbro@tezcat.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         John Hasbrouck <jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>

Subject:      Re: Existentialism...

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:

 

>I don't remember where I read it (it was a blurb), William Burroughs

>called Kerouac America's greatest existentialist writer.

 

I'm sorry, but until I see a specific source for this, I remain unable

to believe that Burroughs really said this.

 

-John Hasbrouck

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:19:18 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeff Taylor <taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Existentialism...

In-Reply-To:  <34BDCE1F.3D38@tezcat.com>

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, John Hasbrouck wrote:

 

> >I don't remember where I read it (it was a blurb), William Burroughs

> >called Kerouac America's greatest existentialist writer.

>

> I'm sorry, but until I see a specific source for this, I remain unable

> to believe that Burroughs really said this.

 

I have a hard time believing this too. Compare the following passages

from WSB's preface to Mohamed Choukri's book _Jean Genet in Tangier_:

 

"[Genet said,] 'I'm neither Existentialist nor Absurdist. I don't

believe in such classifications. I'm only a writer, either a good one

or a bad one.' I have been equally impatient with such

classifications. Am I a Beat writer? a black humorist? and so on.

There is good writing and bad writing. Giving names in meaningless.

[...]

This shared conviction made it possible for Jean Genet and me to

communicate in Chicago despite my atrocious French and his

non-existent English. Had he considered himself an Existentialist or

an Absurdist, communication would have been impossible."

 

*******

Jeff Taylor

taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

*******

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:13:13 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>

Subject:      Re: Used bookstore finds

In-Reply-To:  <01ISALLNAQBM8Y8DWC@mail.ewu.edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Mary Maconnell wrote:

 

> I'm starting with "The Wild Boys" but now am wondering why.  I'm a little

> bit into chapter 3 and it's so weird thus far and I'm wondering if there's

> any advice anyone can give a person not yet versed with Burroughs.

 

The Wild Boys is the book I always recommend to people who haven't read

Burroughs before. It's got a bit of everything: routines, cut--ups,

anarchistic utopias, and wickedly funny black humour. It's a whirlwind

ride, but it's one I return to often. The Green Nun may be the funniest

Burroughs passage I've ever read.

 

I'd be surprised if whoever said: "One word: Heroin" has actually read The

Wild Boys, since junk does not figure prominently, if at all, in the book.

 

It's not particularly useful to think of the divisions in the book as

chapters in any strict sense of the word, since chapters usually serve as

major dividers in a unified narrative. Obviously, there is no overriding

narrative, although I've heard people argue that the recurring "Penny

Arcade Peep-Show" passages provide a cinematic emphasis that is picked up

in the narrative passages, which are given as if on screen (note the

proliferation of "camera zooms in", "on screen", "cut back to" to

introduce narratives).

 

Cheers,

Neil

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:18:00 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Existentialism...

In-Reply-To:  <v01540b00b0e2aa215070@[146.201.2.65]>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Thanks for the insight...I have a better understanding of it now...

On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Preston Whaley wrote:

 

> The cardinal doctrine of existentialism according to Sartre is "existence

> precedes essence;"  we are born into the world a zero and create our own

> being from there.  It presupposes absolute freedom.  Nothing is ordained.

> Infinite creative possibilities.  Camus and Sartre are good places to go

> for prose realization of the philosophy.  It's less explicit in Kerouac

> because he's so subjective but the Nietzchean uberman Dean Moriarty pushes

> toward the idea.  The obstacle to all of this is culture of course and

> according to Burroughs language itself, because of it, consciousness is

> prerecorded.  Therefore existentialism is a ruse performed by deterministic

> language which he tried to undermine via cutups, etc.

>

> That's an oversimplified nutshell of the issues.

>

> Preston

>

> >At 07:08 AM 1/5/88 -0600, you wrote:

> >>Does anyone know anything about existentialism and it's importance in

> >>the Beat movement and culture?  If so, please explain and help me out

> >>here.  Thanks!

> >>

> >>*jodie*

> >>

> >>

> >

> >I don't remember where I read it (it was a blurb), William Burroughs called

> >Kerouac America's greatest existentialist writer.

>

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:29:13 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: To IRCers and TKQ Maher re:Kerochat

In-Reply-To:  <199801150449.VAA07103@smtp03.primenet.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

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Yeah,I agree...IRC would be better because the computer I use doesnt

support Java for security reasons..its a school computer. What about using

Yahoo Chat?

 On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, V.J. Eaton wrote:

 

> The TalkCity Kerochat was a good experiment, but there are better ways.

>

> IRC has its own gremlins without being served through HTML/HTTP protocols

> while a browser loads Java advertisements and writes cookies.

>

> Just use IRC.  IRC programs are free, and the learning curve is . . . read.

>

> TKQ, if you want to sponser Beat chat: Pick an IRC server (Delphi's in the

> Lowel area, --tends to be busy, tho),  name the #group for us, and give a

> general time.   People can generally tend to show up about generally then.

> First one to /join creates the channel under the #expected name, and gets op

> privileges.

>

> Kerochat under current management? --doomed to slowdom and non attendance.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> _____________________

> More harm is done under guise of goodness than ever realized

> by foul deed or evil doer.  Nevertheless, I wish I was good.

> --Herbert Huncke

>

> V.J. Eaton

> Tempe, AZ

>

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:45:41 -0500

Reply-To:     "henkel@wmich.edu" <henkel@wmich.edu>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Scott Henkel <henkel@WMICH.EDU>

Organization: OVPR

Subject:      Ginsberg audio

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FYI Beat-Lers, I just came across a Ginsberg audio interview on RealAudio

at http://www.liveconcerts.com/listening/kcrw/  There's a box of clips to

sort through, alpha by interviewee. Some other interesting people, but not

very beat related. I have not listened to it yet, has anyone?

Cheers,

Scott

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:20:25 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         MATT HANNAN <MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>

Subject:      Character Names

Mime-Version: 1.0

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     I don't have a copy of Naked Lunch at work, but I have all of you!

 

     Was there a character in NL called Husker Du? (Yes, just like the

     metal band)

 

     love and lilies,

 

     matt

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:18:35 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>

Subject:      Re: Character Names

In-Reply-To:  <00000EA0.3427@usoc.org>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, MATT HANNAN wrote:

 

>      I don't have a copy of Naked Lunch at work, but I have all of you!

>

>      Was there a character in NL called Husker Du? (Yes, just like the

>      metal band)

 

I can't remember off the top of my head, but I know there was a character

called Steely Dan, who was, of course, a dildo. The term "heavy metal" for

that brand of music was (unfortunately) borrowed from Burroughs' character

the Heavy Metal Kid. Other bands with Burroughsian names also off the top

of my head: The Insect Trust, The Soft Machine. Seemed to be a 70's thing.

 

Neil

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:20:36 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>

Subject:      Re: Wittgenstein?

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.BSI.3.95.980110112620.4602W-100000@global.california.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Wittgenstein:

 

On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Michael R. Brown wrote:

 

> On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Jeff Taylor wrote:

>

> > In all my reading of Burroughs, I've never run across anything that

> > made me think, "Gee, that sounds just like Wittgenstein." So apart

> > from the explicit reference in the intro to Naked Lunch, I don't think

> > Burroughs ever had much to say about W.

>

> Well, there is that reference to Wittgenstein's pre-recorded-universe

> idea in the WSB documentary.

 

There is an explicit reference that links (not attributes) Wittgenstein to

Burroughs' idea of the pre-recorded universe in The Ticket that Exploded:

 

"Wittgenstein said: 'No proposition can contain itself as an argument' =

The only thing _not_ prerecorded in a prerecorded universe is the

prerecording itself which is to say _any_ recording that contains a random

factor" (TTE 166).

 

To disagree with Jeff above, the influence of Wittgenstein on Burroughs'

notion of the prerecorded universe makes Wittgenstein instrumental in

Burroughs' philosophy and fiction. AJ The Cut-up Kid's only mission is to

fuck with the prerecordings in TTE and Nova Express (burn nitrous holes in

the Reality Film), and the first two books of the Red Night trilogy are

predicated on the notion that the prerecordings can be cut-up, subverted,

and destroyed.

 

On Language Games:

 

Michael went on to write:

 

> Wittgenstein may have been more of an influence, however, in the idea

> of language-games. Perhaps Burroughs was a language-gamester akin to

> the "trickster guru" Alan Watts wrote about.

 

I don't agree with this. When cutting word lines and control lines,

Burroughs was not playing games. Although his use of parodic and satiric

modes may cast him in the role of trickster for a time, his fight for a

non-linguistic freedom was anything but a game.

 

Tim Murphy's new book posits that "[Burroughs' work] emerges from the

liminal space of literature with a 'plan of living' rather than an

endlessly deferred 'participation in language games' or an empty 'love for

the world through language' a la John Barth." He makes a pretty convincing

argument too, and I'd refer you to him for the rest of it.

 

Burroughs was always trying to _do_ something, whether it was cutting

control lines, creating retroactive utopias, or getting into space. He was

never just a language-gamester.

 

Cheers,

Neil

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:24:04 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>

Subject:      Kerouac and Permutation Poems

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Since permutation poems were au courant on the list but a mere few weeks

ago, and the Kerouac folks were largely waiting in the wings since Rainbow

Jack's practices were so far removed from such indulgence, I'd like to try

to bridge the gap, unite the forces under the banner of British poet bob

cobbing's combinatory sound poems written, published and performed in

1970.

 

-------------------------------------------------

 

(for jack kerouac, one)

 

fragment:

 

sasa kassee jo ook arsaka see

joass sackoo jusoo jaa

ajeck sojooka kee reko  sooja jaake

aaeouauueeooeauo

okkuakeko jukokkua  aeja reekokussa

saarruu oukekoju

raka jee sseee aajakakee jjeaujok

ouaeooeeuuauoeaa

sakasee jo ook  arsaka see

joassak koojusoo jaa

ajeck sojooka kee

rekosoo  ja jaake

aaeouauueeooeauo

okkua keko

juko kua

aoja

ree

 

-------------------------------------------------

 

(for jack kerouac, three)

 

juka

juka    kuru

juka    kuru    roku

        kuru    roku

joku            roku

joku    kuro

joku    kuro    roko

        kuro    roko

joko            roko

joko    kure

joko    kure    roka

        kure    roka

joka            roka

joka    kura

joka    kura    raku

        kura    raku

jaku            raku

jaku    kera

jaku    kera    rako

        kera    rako

jako            rako

jako    keru

jako    keru    raka

        keru    raka

                raka

 

-------------------------------------------------------

 

(for jack kerouac, two [as 13, One]; pronounce a as ah,

 e as ay, o as oh, u as oo, c as ch, j as y)

 

ca je ko ru ca     ce jo ra ka ca     co ke ku ja ce

ka ce jo ku ra     ja co ke ka je     ju re ka cu jo

ra ke co ju ka     ku ka re ko cu     ka ru ca ra ko

ka re ko cu ja     ru ca ra ko ju     ka ca je ra ko

ja ke ro ku ca     ja ke ro ku ca     ja ke ro ku ca

 

 

re ka ka ju co     ca ru cu ko re     ca ka ko ra ca

ko ca ru ko ke     ra ca ka ra ka     je ce ja ku ru

cu ka ca je ra     ko ja ce jo ku     ra ju co ke ka

ja ce jo ku ra     ju co ke ka je     ko er ka cu jo

ja ke ro ku ca     ja ke ro ku ca     ja ke ro ku ca

 

 

ce ja ra je ca     co ju ku jo ce     re ko ka ke co

jo co ju ka ka     ke re ko cu ja     ka ca ra ko ju

ku ko re ka cu     ka ra ca ru ko     cu je ca ka ra

ra ca ru ko ke     je ca ka ra ka     jo ce ja ku ru

ja ke ro ku ca     ja ke ro ku ca     ja ke ro ku ca

 

 

ca ra cu ka re     ca je ko ru ca     ce jo ra ka ca

ru ca je ra ko     ka ce jo ku ra     ja co ke ka je

ko jo ce ja ku     ra ke co ju ka     ku ka re ko cu

ke co ju ka ka     ka re ko cu ja     ru ca ra ko ju

ja ke ro ku ca     ja ke ro ku ca     ja ke ro ku ca

 

 

co ke ku ja ce     re ka ka ju co     ca ru cu ko re

ju re ka cu jo     ko ca ru ko ke     ra ca ka ra ka

ka ru ca ra ko     cu ka ca je ra     ko ja ce jo ku

ka ca je ra ko     ja ce jo ku ra     ju co ke ka je

ja ke ro ku ca     ja ke ro ku ca     ja ke ro ku ca

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------

 

All three poems were published in:

cobbing, bob. _bill jubobe_. Toronto: The Coach House Press, 1976.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:29:06 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Ken Ostrander <kenster@MIT.EDU>

Subject:      HUSKER DU

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>     I don't have a copy of Naked Lunch at work, but I have all of you!

>

>     Was there a character in NL called Husker Du? (Yes, just like the

>     metal band)

 

i just read it recently and i definitely would've remembered any mention of

minneapolis' "metal" vangards.  you realize that the band named themselves

after the swedish board game where you flip over two cards or gamepieces to

try and make a match.  if you don't get a match you flip them back over and

have to keep track of each image to match later.  the name means "do you

remember?".

 

KEN

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:31:14 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>

Subject:      Re: HUSKER DU

In-Reply-To:  <v02140b01b0e3f356da3c@[18.170.1.147]>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Ken Ostrander wrote:

 

> you realize that the band named themselves

> after the swedish board game where you flip over two cards or gamepieces to

> try and make a match.  if you don't get a match you flip them back over and

> have to keep track of each image to match later.  the name means "do you

> remember?".

 

The English game was just called "Memory". I played it with my brothers

when I was a young kid, whenever Mom wouldn't let us play street hockey

because we were slashing each other too much with our sticks... (off into

Canadian hockey reverie....)

 

Neil

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:52:51 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         CIRCULATION <breithau@KENYON.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Kerouac

 

Bauman rare Books has their office in the Waldorf Astoria which explains their

hefty prices. Take about $1500.00 off any book they offer for a more normal

price.

 

Dave B.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:58:04 +0000

Reply-To:     tkc@zipcon.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>

Organization: art language wholsale retail

Subject:      Re: Character Names

MIME-Version: 1.0

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husker du was a 'concentration' type board game in the early 60s.  its a

scandanavian language that means 'do you remember'

 

i thought the band was more punk than metal

 

tkc

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:22:43 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Character Names

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 11:58 AM 1/15/98 +0000, you wrote:

>husker du was a 'concentration' type board game in the early 60s.  its a

>scandanavian language that means 'do you remember'

>

>i thought the band was more punk than metal

>

>tkc

>

 

Thanks for saying that.  I was gonna say metal?????

 

 

I saw them only once way back when when they came out from Minnesota to

California at the Mabuhay and this was punk rock time.  They played with us,

them and Black Flag (as I recall)

 

This would be 1981 or 1982.  Years later the lines between punk and "metal"

began to blur.

 

Meat Puppets would be a simlar type of thing

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:05:23 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         TKQ <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: To IRCers and TKQ Maher re:Kerochat

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>

>> The TalkCity Kerochat was a good experiment, but there are better ways.

 

Why the past tense? Those who have gotten through are satisfied with it ( so

they tell me). Java is the current technology. Why back out of it?

 

  The next chat will be Sunday at 8:00 PM. The subject line is the book

Visions of Cody. Thanks for the support! Paul of TKQ..

 

 

 

>>

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:19:10 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         MATT HANNAN <MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>

Subject:      Re: Character Names

Mime-Version: 1.0

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     Thanks to everyone who responded to my question.  Don't know why I

     thought Husker Du was in NL, must be my caffeine addled brain.  As far

     as punk vs. metal--I was generalizing--never was a fan of HD--big

     Steely Dan fan though!

 

     love and lilies,

 

     matt

 

 

 

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________

Subject: Re: Character Names

Author:  tkc@zipcon.com at Internet

Date:    1/15/98 11:58 AM

 

 

husker du was a 'concentration' type board game in the early 60s.  its a

scandanavian language that means 'do you remember'

 

i thought the band was more punk than metal

 

tkc

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:04:18 +0000

Reply-To:     tkc@zipcon.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>

Organization: art language wholsale retail

Subject:      Re: Character Names

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:

 

> Thanks for saying that.  I was gonna say metal?????

>

> I saw them only once way back when when they came out from Minnesota to

> California at the Mabuhay and this was punk rock time.  They played with us,

> them and Black Flag (as I recall)

>

> This would be 1981 or 1982.  Years later the lines between punk and "metal"

> began to blur.

>

> Meat Puppets would be a simlar type of thing

 

never saw em, but liked their records, same with black flag.

what was mabuhay? what was yr band

meat puppets...i...can't...quite......uh....i'm confusing with an early

metallica album.....

punk was about theatre, metal about showbiz....

 

tkc

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:08:08 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Character Names

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 01:04 PM 1/15/98 +0000, you wrote:

>Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:

>

>> Thanks for saying that.  I was gonna say metal?????

>>

>> I saw them only once way back when when they came out from Minnesota to

>> California at the Mabuhay and this was punk rock time.  They played with us,

>> them and Black Flag (as I recall)

>>

>> This would be 1981 or 1982.  Years later the lines between punk and "metal"

>> began to blur.

>>

>> Meat Puppets would be a simlar type of thing

>

>never saw em, but liked their records, same with black flag.

>what was mabuhay? what was yr band

 

Mabuhay Gardens was a Filipino Restaurant/Senior Citizens center on Broadway

(a couple of blocks down from City Lights) where punk bands in San franciso

played at night back in the late 70's and early 80's.

 

 

>meat puppets...i...can't...quite......uh....i'm confusing with an early

>metallica album.....

>punk was about theatre, metal about showbiz....

>

>tkc

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:39:47 -0500

Reply-To:     cmdumond@ehc.edu

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Chris Dumond <cmdumond@EHC.EDU>

Subject:      the contest!

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:

> I take it this this post is your entry?

 

quoth Kurt Vonnegut, quoth Kilgore Trout

 

"TING-A-LING!!!"

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:27:31 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Greg Beaver-Seitz <hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Re: HUSKER DU

Content-Type: text/plain

 

>     I don't have a copy of Naked Lunch at work, but I have all of you!

>>

>>     Was there a character in NL called Husker Du? (Yes, just like the

metal band)

 

Just need to clarify something.

Being from near Minneapolis myself and with a few friends who are Husker

Du fans, I can say that they are *not* a metal band.

 

Thank you,

Greg

 

 

 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

* Ginsberg etc.                         *

* http://members.tripod.com/~Sprayberry *

* Dozens of poems, pictures, info       *

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

 

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:24:33 -0800

Reply-To:     Sherri <love_singing@email.msn.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@EMAIL.MSN.COM>

Subject:      David

 

Hey everyone.  Just spoke with David.  he's doing well and they've reduced

his medication and will be trying a totally new one for him tonight, which

is supposed to have less side effects.  it looks as though he'll be out of

the hospital sometime this weekend and back feeding our heads with his

wonderful insights.

 

ciao, sherri

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Jan 1998 16:21:17 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "V.J. Eaton" <vj@PRIMENET.COM>

Subject:      Re: To Maher re:Kerochat

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>>Why the past tense?

It's a dead horse, don't feed it.

_________________________

 

>>Those who have gotten through are satisfied with it . . .

That's funny . . .  -- this a saving grace? "Those who have GOTTEN THROUGH"

as in

those who had the patience to sit there for 20 minutes while the page loads,

gotten through?

 

__________________________

>>Java is the current technology. Why back out of it?

You want to keep IRC in the browser? instead of using an IRC program because

"Java is the current technology," is this yr argument?  Because of Java?

 

Just what do you think Java is doing for this browser-based Kerochat you are

so fond of?  Squat my man, it's doing squat.  It's slogging the browser with

overhead  throwing ads in your face while running iterations of banner text

and cheap graphics.  Not to mention reducing screen real estate by 30%, as

if that's not annoying.

 

___________________________

 

sof

START OF FLAME

 

Maher, I don't care if you have chat or not to be honest.  Your idea is

good; the application is bad.

And if you hadn't let your ego bleed into yr response, I wld hv let this go.

But I've listened to you parade in yr posts for so many months that I just

got to fire one off . . .

 

<font color="red" size=40000 face=braggadocio><b>

                Eat this flame, Maher.

</b></font>

 

If I ever ran into somebody who thinks he always has the best idea in town,

it's got to be you.

 

And that web page of yrs, while I'm picking . . . , whoodah! now that's a

<blink>gem </blink> of a piece of work.  And  you know enough about Java! to

defend it, you want us to believe.  Hmmmmmm.  Now there's a snark.

 

You are down south with a dose of "invented here," son.  Get over it.  Or,

maybe  just as long as yr tickled w/ yourself, have at it, I guess.

 

eof

END OF FLAME

 

_____________________

More harm is done under guise of goodness than ever realized

by foul deed or evil doer.  Nevertheless, I wish I was good.

--Herbert Huncke

 

V.J. Eaton

Tempe, AZ

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Jan 1998 18:31:42 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         IDDHI <IDDHI@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: To Maher re:Kerochat

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Fascinating as this was, it DEFINITELY seems to fall into that category of

"messages that should NOT have been sent to this list."

 

Surely there must be a critique of web pages and computer programming nerd

list where this can be better addressed?

 

Mr. Eaton, if you've wanted to flame Mr. Maher for things he said, why did you

wait until now to unload? Keeping that stuff inside just makes it unbearably

intense.

 

I'm putting on my asbestos gloves before reading any more posts from this

list.

 

Maggie

 



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